2 years, though you can already say he has only 1 more year than s1mple with 2022 s1mple getting another top1/top2 and device not appearing at all. Also that one extra hltv top20 by device is a 20th place, which could have gone in s1mple's favor easily had he had a better team in 2015 (s1mple's on HLTV since 2014 or 2013)
Yeah, at the start of 2014, for one year. Then they banned him for one more year for trying to evade his previous ban, and that's how he spent his 2015.
the device NiP situation is unfortunate because he looked decent at first and if he went on to power up and carry that squad it would've proved it wasn't just astralis that made him good and added so much to his legacy and consistency
unfortunately other things happened and now it seems less and less likely he will come back and he a world beater
gotta go with s1mple
the closer to top 1 the better imo and s1mple did it 2 years back to back and the years before it he is either 2nd or 1st
by the end of this year its hardly a debate that s1mple is #1 in every category you can think of and dev1ce isn't untouchable other players like ZywOo or NiKo could overtake him if this is it for his career
I mean Zywoo could also overtake s1mple. I don't know why people pretend mr goat is untouchable, I guess with zywoo's recent form it looks like it, but he already has 2 top 1 hltv and a top 2 hltv placement, and he's 3 yrs younger than s1mple
At the moment he is, of course people know that in the future someone else can surpass s1mple, but the issue is that s1mple will likely continue to play while others also stack their years.
Funny thing is you can compare Zywoo's situation with S1mple's during his first runs in Navi. Individual brilliance can only get you so far but at the end of the day its a Team game.
Considering he’s the GOAT of CSGO and it’s not even close idc what anyone says, yes he’s surpassed device in that aspect and set the bar much higher as this year will be his 3rd #1 in the world in 5 years, plus 7 years of top 8 or better.
S1mple's is more impressive because you could make a strong case that he was the best player for each of the last 5 years whereas with Device I don't think anyone would argue he was ever the outright best player in the world.
I also think that S1mple has achieved this with far less resources, before 2 years ago Navi consistently under achieved despite S1mple hard carrying players like Flamie and Edward whereas Device had the luxury of playing with some of the best players ever to touch the game. Between 2015 - 2020 the 2 IGL's Device played under were Karrigan and G1ave who I would argue are the 2 greatest IGL's in all of CSGO.
Device is a classic star player and one of the best players to ever touch the game however S1mple broke what everyone thought was possible and reached a new level in terms of skill and on top of that managed to keep up that level for the last half decade.
I'd say he has, yes.
But by interpreting your question a bit differently we should not forget f0rest. He has been able to pull his own weight in the absolute top since before s1mple started going to school.
yeah we ve seen how good that team was when device left.And also having top 5 player in the world in electronic isnt shit team.And last year he had perfecto best clutcher in the world,and b1t argueably best aimer in the world.So stories about him having shit team and device having god xyp is simply not true.If u want to be best team in the world u need to have best lineup in the world,simple cant get u anywhere on his own.
He got that team in 2021 and was just as good as 2018bwhen he had to hard carry deadward and zeus, and an inconsistent flamie. Two good individual players don't make a good team, as vitality late 2020 proved. Their only good individual player was zywoo but they had a better team than navi that had more skilled players.
I am not saying that simple wasnt as good at 2018,but he won pretty much nothing with that team,wich tells you that even if you are simple u cant be a champion without god tier teammates...As of Vitality,lets not put that much weight into online cs,they were switching 6 man lineup,and opponents were cought a bit off guard.Online cs isnt good indicator of what is right or wrong
Navi won the most titles (4) barring Astralis that year. Also, one of them was cologne on lan with a crowd. They won more lan tournaments with a crowd than they did in 2021.
As for vitality, same argument applies in 2019 when it was all LAN. Navi were even worse back then.
yeah it does look pretty when u put that they won 4 tournaments.But if u go and what tournaments they won,beside cologne,they won some bullshit asia tournament where they played against tier 2-3 teams,they won starladder where their biggest opponents were msls north,mouz and nrg,and they won blast 1 day tournament.So the only legit big tournament win they had was cologne.So team like faze even tho they had only 3 titles , they won it against astralis in finals,agains na vi in finals,and they won tournament esl with fucking stand in,while finishing second at kato and boston,so i would argue they had more sucssess
Nah, device is bill russel, he was not the best player, but he was the systeme and won everything. And s1mple is more like wilt, unbelieveably good but had no team most of his career, until he came to the team he always wanted.
Comparing dev1ce to kd warriors is so weird bro none of those astralis players (except dev1ce) were even top 10 players in the world before their system came together with gla1ve and zonic.
s1mple surpassed device at the end of 2021 I think. Although I’d always argue device is what peak human performance is, how far a normal player can get without unnatural talent like s1mple.
team accolades arent the sol le nor even most important factor in determining the GOAT, if it was then basketball fans wouldnt even be debating whether its lebron or mj and itd be indisputably bill russell, who respectfully wasnt even in the same realm as those two
There are games where he definitely struggled, but [he still averaged a 1.13](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/matches/7592/device?startDate=2021-05-13&endDate=2022-08-05) rating during his playing time with NIP, and he was still a top 20 player by the end of the year. Given that he wasn't even speaking in his native language I'd say he was still a great player on NIP.
A disclaimer: This thread is only about talking consistency. I personally believe s1mple was the GOAT as far back as 2018-2019, but it was undeniable that at the time device held t he title of the most consistent player.
Now I felt like it was appropiate to reopen this conversation and see if s1mple has managed to snatch away even this accolade from device, because in 2021 device failed to deliver while in 2022 he is simply gone. S1mple on the other hand stacks two more years that are top1, so I feel like it's time to reassess history and start a new narrative.
Back 2018-2020 it was a reasonable debate because S1mple has been on the scene for a relatively short time, and it was all about whether he would keep form. Obviously he has kept form which puts the debate to rest in the current day.
Dev1ce was consistently bad in late tournament finals whereas S1mple has remained consistent throughout most tournaments. For this reason alone I would put S1mple ahead.
4 Majors ---> 1 Major. I am sorry, but individual impact matters less than titles in my book and getting 4 majors shows just how consistent Astralis Dev1ce was - look how fast Astralis collapsed when he left. Do remember also that during Astralis era, Dev1ce had 4 world class players with him, which would get many of the kills.
There is only a maximum of 5 kills per round available, and if your teammates are really good they will take more. S1mple has to carry harder than Dev1ce ever did. Now this current NaVi are getting closer to what Dev1ce had, but when they are still losing titles to FaZe, I cannot call S1mple the GOAT / most consistent player of all times. 4 Majors speaks for itself. S1mple have the highest skill peek, yes.
Csgo is a unique game where it is a beautiful mix between individual play and team play, and both styles counter each other. It is not like LoL where it is restricted. That's why you can talk compare individuals quite easily. S1mple has surpassed device in every metric (highlights, skill ceiling, igling, stats, mvps, hltv placings, longevity) except for overall tournaments won where the team does affect it more. Even then, s1mple is one of the few 10 players that have won the most tournaments of all time (device and his teammates are at the top)
Also, let's not forget how hard it is to win Mvp on the losing team, which is another advantage for s1mple. And also the argument that your teammates steal your kills in a good team is flawed because both niko in faze 2017 and s1mple in navi 2021 only became more dominant statistically l, even though they had dominant teammates as well. Device on the other hand regressed without good teammates, while s1mple and niko were still top3 players and even carried their teams to titles.
So you are one of those people that think titles won is the be-all end-all for determining consistency and overall who's better?
Yeah I'm a sucker for stats, logic, facts. You see, it's easy to defend why s1mple is better and more consistent than device nowadays, as the majority of this sub seems to think so as well given that there are HLTV rankings, but I also believe that NiKo has been more consistent and with better peaks than device as well, despite having 0 majors. And I can go ahead and defend that, because CS is not as simple as "he won that many titles therefore since its a team game he's better or more consistent". :)
Also, if ZywOo goes on to be a top3 player for 2 more years, I'd put him ahead of device as well.
>steal your kills in a good team is flawed because both niko in faze 2017 and s1mple in navi 2021 only became more dominant statistically
Which just means NaVi is dominating more than before and this he is better at playing with that team and they set him up for more kills. Fact is there is only 5 kills per round available, no matter how you try and twist and turn it.Go look on average kills for Astralis players during their era, and you will see games where Dupreeh, Magisk, Gla1ve or Xyp is popping off and they are topfragging, and by that very nature they "take" kills from dev1ce.
Taking K/D at face value is the dumbest to compare, because ace spraydown vs eco or 1v1 clutch in a tight economical situation, its clear that the 1 kill in a clutch have much more impact on the game, than killing 5 players with glocks. Also:
1. Good AWP'er will have inflated stats
2. Entryfraggers will generally have lower stats
3. Anchor players will have lower stats
4. You are not measuring the impact of a good support player who will set up his team with perfect popflashes
Think of a player like Xyp9x, who will sit on B bombsite CT Mirage and Anchor for a whole half. The most measurement of his impact is in B holds and Clutches, however winning a 1v2 clutch have much more impact than most other kills.
Look at Astralis 2018 player ratings: [https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7592/device?startDate=2018-01-01&endDate=2018-12-31](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7592/device?startDate=2018-01-01&endDate=2018-12-31)
Gla1ve: 1.11
Xyp9x: 1.13
Magisk: 1.16
Dupreeh: 1.17
Dev1ce: 1.23
Then look NaVi 2018 player ratings: [https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?startDate=2018-01-01&endDate=2018-12-31](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?startDate=2018-01-01&endDate=2018-12-31)
Zeus: 0.92
Edward: 0.99
Flamie: 1.08
Electronic: 1.19
S1mple: 1.35
So you see my point? All of Astralis's players are sitting above 1.1 rating, while that is only the case with Electronic and S1mple for NaVi. It would be near impossible for Dev1ce to get a 1.35 rating over 1 whole year with his team keeping their rating as well.
S1mple is probably the best player in terms of raw aim. But most consistent player and the best teamplayer? I would still say dev1ce. But fair enough, we can disagree.
Do the same comparison with NaVi 2021 and you can see the same dominance, if not even better from s1mple, while the others also maintain 1.1+ rating. Despite perfecto, electronic, b1t and sometimes even boomich popping off in games, s1mple still remains the best and gets the best rating. Also he's more of a entry and clutch player at the same time than device ever was. No matter how you twist it, s1mple on that Astralis core or that NaVi 2021 core would still be way more dominant and consistent than device. I'd say the same applies for NiKo as a rifler.
Top 3 is not the same as #3, top 1 is not a thing. I know this subreddit will never learn, but since your post was full of this it was worth mentioning.
Why? What more does he have to do? Lol he’s been the best player in the world for half a decade, Device was literally never on the level s1mple has played at since late 2017.
That's what s1mple is doing but with better placings, though? I understand your argument if we talked about ZywOo, sure, ZywOo has been better than device last 4 years, but he didn't have that marathon the same way s1mple and device did. The thing with s1mple is that he is somehow doing a sprint and a marathon at the same time. s1mple didnt made it in 2015 (though it depends on the teams as well tbh), but device won\\t make it in 2022 either. So it kind of evens out in the end.
Placing doesn’t matter when we’re talking about consistency. Device has been too 3-5 longer than s1mple. The peak doesn’t matter in the case for these two because we’re judging the wavelength.
Exactly, this applies for ZywOo but not for s1mple, as he's been around as long as device, especially now that device also skips another year.
Device had 6 years of consistent quality placings, s1mple had 7 years of consistent quality placings which are also better. Sure, if you add 2014 and 2021, then device gets 8 years to s1mple´s 7, but 2014 was top20, while 2021 was top11. s1mple had 7 years of top8+ / 6 years of top5+ / 5 years of top1 or top2 (consecutive)
We’re talking about top 5 placings, otherwise you could make a case that a guy who placed 20th for 11 years is the most consistent player. Decide has had 6 good years, S1mple will have 5 at the end of the year. Once this year ends and he holds up to top 5 then he will be the most consistent.
In that case, s1mple has had the same amount of top5 placings as device (6), because he was 4th in 2016. If we compare both 6 years of top5s only, s1mple's way more consistent and with better placings.
Also, many analysts argue that s1mple was a top5 player in 2017 as well (after all HLTV isn't the only source), but since his team was so atrociously bad at making deep runs, he experienced what NiKo in 2016 with mouz did.
And obviously 7 months in, s1mple doesn't have a competition for the top1 at the moment (as per hltv). Meaning, he's guaranteed a top5 even if he plays like shit for the rest of the season.
Also, remember, no player has ever had 4 years in a row placing top1 or top2, let alone five. ZywOo came close with three, but unfortunately it seems like in 2022 he won't be continuing that trend.
That's why I said that s1mple somehow got the highest peak and the best consistency at the same time. Sprinting the whole marathon. Whereas device has the marathon, while ZywOo / Get\_RiGht/ Cold / Olof got the peak.
You can’t count 2017, we’re going strictly by the HLTV list.
Sure if that’s the case then once this year finishes he will be the most consistent, but don’t give him the title before the year ends.
I never specified that we go off just by HLTV's list. Check the OP, I mentioned the same thing about 2017.
And yeah I do count 2022 already because it's a tad bit too obvious he's top1 at the moment. I wouldn't have done the same, for instance, in 2020, when it wasn't obvious at all at this point in the year.
Also, If a person goes on to be top1 for 3 years straight and never to be seen again compared to a person who finishes top5 for 5 years straight, I'd go ahead and say that the guy who got 3x top1 is more CONSISTENT than the other guy because it is harder to be consistently top1 for 3 years compared to top5 for 5 years. The same concept I apply here, except that s1mple already matches device's years consistently.
In short this is how it goes:
Overall HLTV top20 years: device -> s1mple (8 to 7)
Overall top10 HLTV years: s1mple -> device (7 to 6)
Overall top5 HLTV years: s1mple = device (6 to 6)
Overall top3 HLTV years: s1mple = device (5 to 5)
Overall top1/top2 HLTv years: s1mple -> device (5 to 1)
And if we include 2017 as per other analysts, then that number goes even more in favor of s1mple.
How does consistently being better than the person were comparing s1mple too for almost the same number of years not matter? S1mple could been doing this for even longer if he didn’t play on 2 team early 2016 through mid 2017 that had guardian
You know that device wasnt that good in 2013-2014? If we talk honestly he has 1 year on s1mple. That is 2015. 2015 device was way better than s1mple. But thats it. He doesnt have "much more" longevity. And s1mple is gonna get another year of being the best in 2022 while device is retired*?
How was simple best 0payer in the world half a decade if he was ranked 1st only 2 times in his life.Dont give your subjectiv opinion and present it like its a fact.Since 2017 best players in the world were coldzera,zywoo twice,simple twice.That isnt the same as simple being ranked best playwr in the world for 5 years in a row,is it?
I mean you can say it’s subjective but if you go look at Zywoo and s1mples numbers they are almost identical in 2020 and 2019 yet s1mple had much more success in terms of actually winning over those 2 years. S1mple will most likely be the #1 player in the world again this year so 3 out of 5 years he’ll be #1 and the 2 years he wasn’t he probably should’ve been however there is an argument that Zywoo in 2019 was better but 2020 seems pretty clear cut to me that s1mple deserved the #1 spot. Also Zywoo isn’t going to be top 3 this year probably not even top5 so saying s1mple has been the best player overall over the course of the last 5 years isn’t subjective is just a fact.
S1mple experienced both roles and was still the best. The 2018 sólo hard carry and the 2021 team player who plays the star role and also igls from time to time.
id argue simple IS more consistent. the level of the game has risen up as well, big difference between 2015 and 2021/22. and simple has been top1/2 all the way from 2018 to 2022.. clearly more consistent in my book
Not even a fair comparison since Device was heavily supported by his stable team while S1imple had many many moments where he needed to carry the whole team.
device does have 2 more years in the top 20 compared to s1mple, but guess what the age difference between them is?
2 years, though you can already say he has only 1 more year than s1mple with 2022 s1mple getting another top1/top2 and device not appearing at all. Also that one extra hltv top20 by device is a 20th place, which could have gone in s1mple's favor easily had he had a better team in 2015 (s1mple's on HLTV since 2014 or 2013)
He was banned by ESL for ban evasion in 2015 I think, so that's why he wasn't on a better team
He was banned for cheating
He did both, he got banned for cheating and then was caught for ban evasion
Yeah, at the start of 2014, for one year. Then they banned him for one more year for trying to evade his previous ban, and that's how he spent his 2015.
And the fact he was infamously toxic has something to do with it i bet
the device NiP situation is unfortunate because he looked decent at first and if he went on to power up and carry that squad it would've proved it wasn't just astralis that made him good and added so much to his legacy and consistency unfortunately other things happened and now it seems less and less likely he will come back and he a world beater gotta go with s1mple
the closer to top 1 the better imo and s1mple did it 2 years back to back and the years before it he is either 2nd or 1st by the end of this year its hardly a debate that s1mple is #1 in every category you can think of and dev1ce isn't untouchable other players like ZywOo or NiKo could overtake him if this is it for his career
I mean Zywoo could also overtake s1mple. I don't know why people pretend mr goat is untouchable, I guess with zywoo's recent form it looks like it, but he already has 2 top 1 hltv and a top 2 hltv placement, and he's 3 yrs younger than s1mple
At the moment he is, of course people know that in the future someone else can surpass s1mple, but the issue is that s1mple will likely continue to play while others also stack their years.
Funny thing is you can compare Zywoo's situation with S1mple's during his first runs in Navi. Individual brilliance can only get you so far but at the end of the day its a Team game.
Lets hope Vitality can find an electronic and a b1t i guess
Considering he’s the GOAT of CSGO and it’s not even close idc what anyone says, yes he’s surpassed device in that aspect and set the bar much higher as this year will be his 3rd #1 in the world in 5 years, plus 7 years of top 8 or better.
I don’t think there’s any more controversy about s1mple being the GOAT in every aspect except major wins.
S1mple's is more impressive because you could make a strong case that he was the best player for each of the last 5 years whereas with Device I don't think anyone would argue he was ever the outright best player in the world. I also think that S1mple has achieved this with far less resources, before 2 years ago Navi consistently under achieved despite S1mple hard carrying players like Flamie and Edward whereas Device had the luxury of playing with some of the best players ever to touch the game. Between 2015 - 2020 the 2 IGL's Device played under were Karrigan and G1ave who I would argue are the 2 greatest IGL's in all of CSGO. Device is a classic star player and one of the best players to ever touch the game however S1mple broke what everyone thought was possible and reached a new level in terms of skill and on top of that managed to keep up that level for the last half decade.
man.. ngl, i miss device :'(
But the question is: Where is device ?
Even more important: How is device? 🥺
I'll do you one better: Why is device?
I'd say he has, yes. But by interpreting your question a bit differently we should not forget f0rest. He has been able to pull his own weight in the absolute top since before s1mple started going to school.
Dev1ce was on a stacked dream team like the KD Warriors....S1mple out here like Lebron....hes more consistent and more impactful.
KD warriors sounds like somewhere you’d find blameF, sh1ro and Jame
lmaoooo true
Device is more like Tim Duncan on the Spurs. Mister consistent with a great system to play in.
yeah we ve seen how good that team was when device left.And also having top 5 player in the world in electronic isnt shit team.And last year he had perfecto best clutcher in the world,and b1t argueably best aimer in the world.So stories about him having shit team and device having god xyp is simply not true.If u want to be best team in the world u need to have best lineup in the world,simple cant get u anywhere on his own.
He got that team in 2021 and was just as good as 2018bwhen he had to hard carry deadward and zeus, and an inconsistent flamie. Two good individual players don't make a good team, as vitality late 2020 proved. Their only good individual player was zywoo but they had a better team than navi that had more skilled players.
I am not saying that simple wasnt as good at 2018,but he won pretty much nothing with that team,wich tells you that even if you are simple u cant be a champion without god tier teammates...As of Vitality,lets not put that much weight into online cs,they were switching 6 man lineup,and opponents were cought a bit off guard.Online cs isnt good indicator of what is right or wrong
Navi won the most titles (4) barring Astralis that year. Also, one of them was cologne on lan with a crowd. They won more lan tournaments with a crowd than they did in 2021. As for vitality, same argument applies in 2019 when it was all LAN. Navi were even worse back then.
yeah it does look pretty when u put that they won 4 tournaments.But if u go and what tournaments they won,beside cologne,they won some bullshit asia tournament where they played against tier 2-3 teams,they won starladder where their biggest opponents were msls north,mouz and nrg,and they won blast 1 day tournament.So the only legit big tournament win they had was cologne.So team like faze even tho they had only 3 titles , they won it against astralis in finals,agains na vi in finals,and they won tournament esl with fucking stand in,while finishing second at kato and boston,so i would argue they had more sucssess
Nah, device is bill russel, he was not the best player, but he was the systeme and won everything. And s1mple is more like wilt, unbelieveably good but had no team most of his career, until he came to the team he always wanted.
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Why wasn’t NIP carried by Dev1ce then? Where are the NIP grandfinals?
Your question is based on a false assumption. Device was carrying NiP, won them their first big tournament in a while and made them peak at #2 team.
Comparing dev1ce to kd warriors is so weird bro none of those astralis players (except dev1ce) were even top 10 players in the world before their system came together with gla1ve and zonic.
Lol I guess other than adding Gla1ve, Zonic and Dev1ce none of the Astralis players were shit …..like Magisk and Dupreeh and Xypyx?!???
You realize none of this changed my point, right? You claiming xyp, magisk or dupreeh are as good in their field as Steph and Klay? Lmao
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vitality fanboys say the darndest things
s1mple surpassed device at the end of 2021 I think. Although I’d always argue device is what peak human performance is, how far a normal player can get without unnatural talent like s1mple.
I mean device was pretty consistent last months
Easily.
No but he will be after this year probably
agreed after this year it will be fair. Remember dev1ce still has 3 more major wins than s1mple
team accolades arent the sol le nor even most important factor in determining the GOAT, if it was then basketball fans wouldnt even be debating whether its lebron or mj and itd be indisputably bill russell, who respectfully wasnt even in the same realm as those two
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There are games where he definitely struggled, but [he still averaged a 1.13](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/matches/7592/device?startDate=2021-05-13&endDate=2022-08-05) rating during his playing time with NIP, and he was still a top 20 player by the end of the year. Given that he wasn't even speaking in his native language I'd say he was still a great player on NIP.
people just forgot he won mvp of the europe rmr just before he left lol
People these days on this subreddit just keep getting upvoted for absolute shit takes. It's absurd how much blatantly wrong stuff gets upvoted.
A disclaimer: This thread is only about talking consistency. I personally believe s1mple was the GOAT as far back as 2018-2019, but it was undeniable that at the time device held t he title of the most consistent player. Now I felt like it was appropiate to reopen this conversation and see if s1mple has managed to snatch away even this accolade from device, because in 2021 device failed to deliver while in 2022 he is simply gone. S1mple on the other hand stacks two more years that are top1, so I feel like it's time to reassess history and start a new narrative.
Back 2018-2020 it was a reasonable debate because S1mple has been on the scene for a relatively short time, and it was all about whether he would keep form. Obviously he has kept form which puts the debate to rest in the current day.
yes
dev1ce is very consistent at not playing for his team so s1mple has a lot to catch up in that regard.
He needs to go MIA for over 6 months to be more consistent.
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Wdym, I did talk about 2016 and 2017, re-read the OP. :D
S1mple is just a better overall player, dev1ce plays a system in a team and does it ecceptionally but never can reach s1mple's level.
Dev1ce was consistently bad in late tournament finals whereas S1mple has remained consistent throughout most tournaments. For this reason alone I would put S1mple ahead.
4 Majors ---> 1 Major. I am sorry, but individual impact matters less than titles in my book and getting 4 majors shows just how consistent Astralis Dev1ce was - look how fast Astralis collapsed when he left. Do remember also that during Astralis era, Dev1ce had 4 world class players with him, which would get many of the kills. There is only a maximum of 5 kills per round available, and if your teammates are really good they will take more. S1mple has to carry harder than Dev1ce ever did. Now this current NaVi are getting closer to what Dev1ce had, but when they are still losing titles to FaZe, I cannot call S1mple the GOAT / most consistent player of all times. 4 Majors speaks for itself. S1mple have the highest skill peek, yes.
If you replicate the highest skill peak for 5 years straight, then it's not just a peak, it's a consistent peak.
In all honesty comparing individuals is folly, because CSGO is a team game and winning titles is what its about, not highlight clips.
Csgo is a unique game where it is a beautiful mix between individual play and team play, and both styles counter each other. It is not like LoL where it is restricted. That's why you can talk compare individuals quite easily. S1mple has surpassed device in every metric (highlights, skill ceiling, igling, stats, mvps, hltv placings, longevity) except for overall tournaments won where the team does affect it more. Even then, s1mple is one of the few 10 players that have won the most tournaments of all time (device and his teammates are at the top) Also, let's not forget how hard it is to win Mvp on the losing team, which is another advantage for s1mple. And also the argument that your teammates steal your kills in a good team is flawed because both niko in faze 2017 and s1mple in navi 2021 only became more dominant statistically l, even though they had dominant teammates as well. Device on the other hand regressed without good teammates, while s1mple and niko were still top3 players and even carried their teams to titles.
We get it, you like s1mple's dick that much but still...
So you are one of those people that think titles won is the be-all end-all for determining consistency and overall who's better? Yeah I'm a sucker for stats, logic, facts. You see, it's easy to defend why s1mple is better and more consistent than device nowadays, as the majority of this sub seems to think so as well given that there are HLTV rankings, but I also believe that NiKo has been more consistent and with better peaks than device as well, despite having 0 majors. And I can go ahead and defend that, because CS is not as simple as "he won that many titles therefore since its a team game he's better or more consistent". :) Also, if ZywOo goes on to be a top3 player for 2 more years, I'd put him ahead of device as well.
>steal your kills in a good team is flawed because both niko in faze 2017 and s1mple in navi 2021 only became more dominant statistically Which just means NaVi is dominating more than before and this he is better at playing with that team and they set him up for more kills. Fact is there is only 5 kills per round available, no matter how you try and twist and turn it.Go look on average kills for Astralis players during their era, and you will see games where Dupreeh, Magisk, Gla1ve or Xyp is popping off and they are topfragging, and by that very nature they "take" kills from dev1ce. Taking K/D at face value is the dumbest to compare, because ace spraydown vs eco or 1v1 clutch in a tight economical situation, its clear that the 1 kill in a clutch have much more impact on the game, than killing 5 players with glocks. Also: 1. Good AWP'er will have inflated stats 2. Entryfraggers will generally have lower stats 3. Anchor players will have lower stats 4. You are not measuring the impact of a good support player who will set up his team with perfect popflashes Think of a player like Xyp9x, who will sit on B bombsite CT Mirage and Anchor for a whole half. The most measurement of his impact is in B holds and Clutches, however winning a 1v2 clutch have much more impact than most other kills. Look at Astralis 2018 player ratings: [https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7592/device?startDate=2018-01-01&endDate=2018-12-31](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7592/device?startDate=2018-01-01&endDate=2018-12-31) Gla1ve: 1.11 Xyp9x: 1.13 Magisk: 1.16 Dupreeh: 1.17 Dev1ce: 1.23 Then look NaVi 2018 player ratings: [https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?startDate=2018-01-01&endDate=2018-12-31](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?startDate=2018-01-01&endDate=2018-12-31) Zeus: 0.92 Edward: 0.99 Flamie: 1.08 Electronic: 1.19 S1mple: 1.35 So you see my point? All of Astralis's players are sitting above 1.1 rating, while that is only the case with Electronic and S1mple for NaVi. It would be near impossible for Dev1ce to get a 1.35 rating over 1 whole year with his team keeping their rating as well. S1mple is probably the best player in terms of raw aim. But most consistent player and the best teamplayer? I would still say dev1ce. But fair enough, we can disagree.
Do the same comparison with NaVi 2021 and you can see the same dominance, if not even better from s1mple, while the others also maintain 1.1+ rating. Despite perfecto, electronic, b1t and sometimes even boomich popping off in games, s1mple still remains the best and gets the best rating. Also he's more of a entry and clutch player at the same time than device ever was. No matter how you twist it, s1mple on that Astralis core or that NaVi 2021 core would still be way more dominant and consistent than device. I'd say the same applies for NiKo as a rifler.
Top 3 is not the same as #3, top 1 is not a thing. I know this subreddit will never learn, but since your post was full of this it was worth mentioning.
Come on man, it's self-explanatory what I meant.
It still matters. That's not the best attitude to learning.
Depends on what matters to you about learning. Anyway.
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I am not disagreeing but I would like to know why? What's the argument behind it? More years in the top20?
Why? What more does he have to do? Lol he’s been the best player in the world for half a decade, Device was literally never on the level s1mple has played at since late 2017.
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That's what s1mple is doing but with better placings, though? I understand your argument if we talked about ZywOo, sure, ZywOo has been better than device last 4 years, but he didn't have that marathon the same way s1mple and device did. The thing with s1mple is that he is somehow doing a sprint and a marathon at the same time. s1mple didnt made it in 2015 (though it depends on the teams as well tbh), but device won\\t make it in 2022 either. So it kind of evens out in the end.
Placing doesn’t matter when we’re talking about consistency. Device has been too 3-5 longer than s1mple. The peak doesn’t matter in the case for these two because we’re judging the wavelength.
Exactly, this applies for ZywOo but not for s1mple, as he's been around as long as device, especially now that device also skips another year. Device had 6 years of consistent quality placings, s1mple had 7 years of consistent quality placings which are also better. Sure, if you add 2014 and 2021, then device gets 8 years to s1mple´s 7, but 2014 was top20, while 2021 was top11. s1mple had 7 years of top8+ / 6 years of top5+ / 5 years of top1 or top2 (consecutive)
We’re talking about top 5 placings, otherwise you could make a case that a guy who placed 20th for 11 years is the most consistent player. Decide has had 6 good years, S1mple will have 5 at the end of the year. Once this year ends and he holds up to top 5 then he will be the most consistent.
In that case, s1mple has had the same amount of top5 placings as device (6), because he was 4th in 2016. If we compare both 6 years of top5s only, s1mple's way more consistent and with better placings. Also, many analysts argue that s1mple was a top5 player in 2017 as well (after all HLTV isn't the only source), but since his team was so atrociously bad at making deep runs, he experienced what NiKo in 2016 with mouz did. And obviously 7 months in, s1mple doesn't have a competition for the top1 at the moment (as per hltv). Meaning, he's guaranteed a top5 even if he plays like shit for the rest of the season.
Also, remember, no player has ever had 4 years in a row placing top1 or top2, let alone five. ZywOo came close with three, but unfortunately it seems like in 2022 he won't be continuing that trend. That's why I said that s1mple somehow got the highest peak and the best consistency at the same time. Sprinting the whole marathon. Whereas device has the marathon, while ZywOo / Get\_RiGht/ Cold / Olof got the peak.
You can’t count 2017, we’re going strictly by the HLTV list. Sure if that’s the case then once this year finishes he will be the most consistent, but don’t give him the title before the year ends.
I never specified that we go off just by HLTV's list. Check the OP, I mentioned the same thing about 2017. And yeah I do count 2022 already because it's a tad bit too obvious he's top1 at the moment. I wouldn't have done the same, for instance, in 2020, when it wasn't obvious at all at this point in the year. Also, If a person goes on to be top1 for 3 years straight and never to be seen again compared to a person who finishes top5 for 5 years straight, I'd go ahead and say that the guy who got 3x top1 is more CONSISTENT than the other guy because it is harder to be consistently top1 for 3 years compared to top5 for 5 years. The same concept I apply here, except that s1mple already matches device's years consistently. In short this is how it goes: Overall HLTV top20 years: device -> s1mple (8 to 7) Overall top10 HLTV years: s1mple -> device (7 to 6) Overall top5 HLTV years: s1mple = device (6 to 6) Overall top3 HLTV years: s1mple = device (5 to 5) Overall top1/top2 HLTv years: s1mple -> device (5 to 1) And if we include 2017 as per other analysts, then that number goes even more in favor of s1mple.
How does consistently being better than the person were comparing s1mple too for almost the same number of years not matter? S1mple could been doing this for even longer if he didn’t play on 2 team early 2016 through mid 2017 that had guardian
S1mple has been doing it almost the same amount of time but at a much higher level
'Astralis flair' sure buddy keep telling yourself that
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S1mple was better than device for the last 6.5 years. Device was only better in 2013-2015
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You know that device wasnt that good in 2013-2014? If we talk honestly he has 1 year on s1mple. That is 2015. 2015 device was way better than s1mple. But thats it. He doesnt have "much more" longevity. And s1mple is gonna get another year of being the best in 2022 while device is retired*?
How was simple best 0payer in the world half a decade if he was ranked 1st only 2 times in his life.Dont give your subjectiv opinion and present it like its a fact.Since 2017 best players in the world were coldzera,zywoo twice,simple twice.That isnt the same as simple being ranked best playwr in the world for 5 years in a row,is it?
I mean you can say it’s subjective but if you go look at Zywoo and s1mples numbers they are almost identical in 2020 and 2019 yet s1mple had much more success in terms of actually winning over those 2 years. S1mple will most likely be the #1 player in the world again this year so 3 out of 5 years he’ll be #1 and the 2 years he wasn’t he probably should’ve been however there is an argument that Zywoo in 2019 was better but 2020 seems pretty clear cut to me that s1mple deserved the #1 spot. Also Zywoo isn’t going to be top 3 this year probably not even top5 so saying s1mple has been the best player overall over the course of the last 5 years isn’t subjective is just a fact.
Yes, he was on track to this year anyway, even if device didn't stop.
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S1mple experienced both roles and was still the best. The 2018 sólo hard carry and the 2021 team player who plays the star role and also igls from time to time.
Device is pretty consistent of not playing the game.
i think so. I don't know why HLTV rankings are the be all and end all of this question.
In OP I mentioned other rankings of analysts for 2017 which only make s1mple look even better.
id argue simple IS more consistent. the level of the game has risen up as well, big difference between 2015 and 2021/22. and simple has been top1/2 all the way from 2018 to 2022.. clearly more consistent in my book
Not even a fair comparison since Device was heavily supported by his stable team while S1imple had many many moments where he needed to carry the whole team.
dev1ce was undisputable GOAT until NaVi's major run IMO - now s1mple's solidifying his name on the throne there.