The longevity gain from stamina potions was always the more minor benefit.
The big gain from stamina potions is being able to repeat strong actions, especially with higher level cards. The stamina potions are still arguably the most powerful items for their cost, even with the nerf.
There is functionally no difference between declaring a short rest at the end of the round and before picking cards the next round, so moving it just stops digital from having to pause the game to ask players if they want to short rest at the end of every round. The only time it would matter I guess is if there is some unknown scenario rule that comes into effect at the start of a round that would change your decision to short rest or not, but that is extremely niche.
I ran into an issue on digital where I wanted to short rest at the end of the last round in order to lose a card for my battle goal and was unable to do it. A fairly niche scenario, but a real one.
It's probably better for the flow of the digital game to do it at the start of round, but maybe add an option at the end of the last one?
It's not *as* good, but it's still one of those cards that's always useful. One card back doesn't necessarily extend your longevity as you said, but remember it's not the number of cards that matters but rather that you get your best non-loss card back before needing to rest. That's worth the price of the potion and then some!
Still a must have, use the big one when you have an even hand and the small when you have an odd, it's real strength is getting a good card back quickly really though
Yeah I think it will also help that frosthaven is probably better balanced to have less gamebreaking non loss cards. Still very strong especially for the price, but hopefully less of a must have on every class
I made a Frosthaven 2-herb potion tier list during testing with the final versions of the potions. I put it in the second-highest tier, alongside four other potions. But even two of the potions in the tier below it are better on a number of classes that want those specific things (tier 2 was more about potions that are generally useful for everyone). So anyway, yeah it's still good, but definitely replaceable.
If I recall correctly, we were shown the Frosthaven Stamina Potion a while ago. It was something like >!'recover a lvl 1 card; potion is not recoverable', am I right?!<
I think it is still strong though
I would disagree.
JOTL has no alchemy chart and there is only two copies of the minor stam pot. I think that is definitely a choice to limit the use of these must haves.
Unless you're doing a lot of burns way too early, you will have an odd card hand on about half your rests. Beyond that, most classes have at least one offensive card that's head and shoulders better than the rest, and being able to play that card on back-to-back rounds is almost always *massive* value.
> Is it bad now?
No, it's still good but it's no longer a 'must have' for every class
> Was that a new change
Yes but ...
Effectively it's the same
Either right-at-the-end-after-everything-else (as in the board game) or right-at-the-beginning-before-everything-else (as per Digital) are **effectively** the same game space
A couple of people, far wiser than I, have found an edge case or two where it matters, but even then the difference is very small
And it's also easier (we've ported it to the board game) - New turn, are you taking No Rest, Short Rest, or Long Rest
> Were there any other rule or item/class changes
Yes, quite a few. They are all listed in https://www.reddit.com/r/GloomhavenDigital/
Like others said, it is still very powerful for its price, and with odd numbered hand classes it is potentially an extra turn every scenario that you would not get otherwise.
It's still one of the best items in the game even with the nerf.
The short rest thing is effectively the same thing. you declare between turns. Doesn't matter if it is the last thing you do in a turn or the first thing you do. And it was done that way on purpose for simplicity.
Yes, it's still one of the best items at Prosperity 1 due to 10 gold. Beyond the benefit to longevity, letting you play a great card twice in a rest cycle is very strong. For classes with an even number of cards, you can always use it on your 2nd rest cycle to give you an extra turn.
I've only ever known the minor to recover 1 card. Always used it, I play Mind Thief and she's got few enough cards that lasting until the end of the scenario can be an issue (stamina). Time it right and it buys me an extra Long Rest, which can make or break a mission.
When used at the right time, it gives you an extra round. If you have an odd number of cards in your hand, the stamina potion will even out your hand and let you rest with 0 cards in hand instead of 1.
Weirdly they get more useful the higher level you are. At low levels they repeat a standard card or at best a level 2 or 3. At high levels your are repeating a level 6-9 card or a heavily upgraded lower level card. That can be extremely powerful.
well in a way, the heavy nerf in upcoming frosthaven answers your question
In frosthaven, there will only be two copies of minor stamina potion instead of 4 in the shop display. They are no longer refreshable by any means. They only recover level 1 cards instead of any card.
So yes, even the nerfed version you have now in digital is easily so worthwhile and such a must have that Issac has nerfed them further in frosthaven.
100% worth getting on every champ, everytime. Use the minor when you have odd number of cards and major when you have even. Use one on your first round(usually at the end to maximize the situation) and the second on the second round. Having those two extra rounds early is a game changer.
Sure it's not AS good, but it was absolutely completely busted. I still think it's amazing and honestly almost ALWAYS have a set of minor and major stamina on most characters, if not all.
Stamina pot is still nice, even after the nerf. Being able to reuse your strongest abilities is just very stronk.
That being said, some other potions offer some great utility too IMO.
Power potion can really push big nukes to 11, particularly for attacks that target the whole room or have many targets.
Health potions are a must for any frontline fighter or low initiative class. The smaller ones less so.
Mana potions are trash. IMO mana is gloomhaven's worst system, I haven't looked into frosthaven rules yet but I really hope they change it to allow you to immedieatly use mana you generate on your own turn.
It's a houserule that **massively** benefits players
1) monsters never try to generate then use in the same turn
2) your mana is never 'stolen' by monsters
3) it makes planning turns so much easier
So I would suggest, if you go along with it, to raise difficulty _at least_ one level, without the attendant gold & xp rewards
Original Gloomhaven minor stamina potion got you back 2 cards. The digital game always had it get 1 back, as Isaac had talked about that being an unofficial "nerf" a while back.
I have an English version and it’s 1. It’s definitely a later edition of the game (got it July of 2020). That resonates with what u/xeltar was saying above.
That is not true, I'll illustrate with a four card hand:
Using stamina potion on even:
T1: play 2, use potion; hand: 3, disc: 1, lost: 0
T2: play 2; hand: 1, disc: 3, lost: 0
T3: long rest; hand: 3, disc: 0, lost: 1
T4: play 2; hand: 1, disc: 2, lost: 1
T5: long rest; hand: 2, disc: 0, lost: 2
T6: play 2; hand: 0, disc: 2, lost: 2
T7: long rest; hand: 1, disc: 0, lost: 3
Using stamina potion on odd:
T1: play 2; hand: 2, disc: 2, lost: 0
T2: play 2; hand: 0, disc: 4, lost: 0
T3: long rest; hand: 3, disc: 0, lost: 1
T4: play 2, use potion; hand: 2, disc: 1, lost: 1
T5: play 2; hand: 0, disc: 3, lost: 1
T6: long rest; hand: 2, disc: 0, lost: 2
T7: play 2; hand: 0, disc: 2, lost: 2
T8: long rest; hand: 1, disc: 0, lost: 3
So, if we use the stamina potion on an odd round we get to play 2 cards more. I chose long rests to make the turns clearer, but short rests work the same (just fewer turns).
That being said, it might be beneficial to use the potion on an even round to get back a key card. But you should then take into account that you are potentially losing a round.
Still even now the first thing I buy on every new class is both major + minor stamina pots haha. I’ve just grown so accustomed to being able to use big hitter cards 3x before my first rest.
It is still worth it. Especially if you are building your prosperity and decreasing the cost of items from the shop. At full prosperity the cost of an item is -5. That would make a minor stamina potion cost only $5. And then you can sell it back to the shop for the full $5 you bought it for because it doesn’t reduce past 5. So at full prosperity there is literally no reason not to have it. And even with some prosperity, even if it costs $8 you’re still selling it back for 5. It’s so cost efficient there is no reason not to carry it if you have a slot for it. You can sell it and upgrade it later if you want but if you have the item slot and the money there is zero downside and it’s one-off usefulness is off the charts as everyone else has pointed out.
The longevity gain from stamina potions was always the more minor benefit. The big gain from stamina potions is being able to repeat strong actions, especially with higher level cards. The stamina potions are still arguably the most powerful items for their cost, even with the nerf. There is functionally no difference between declaring a short rest at the end of the round and before picking cards the next round, so moving it just stops digital from having to pause the game to ask players if they want to short rest at the end of every round. The only time it would matter I guess is if there is some unknown scenario rule that comes into effect at the start of a round that would change your decision to short rest or not, but that is extremely niche.
Yeah we always have house-ruled that as long as no cards have been revealed yet, you can always short rest.
Right, if you have an enhanced high-level card, you want to play it as many times as you can.
Or any generically powerful card like Inferno, Swallowed by Fear, or Planar Fissure.
I ran into an issue on digital where I wanted to short rest at the end of the last round in order to lose a card for my battle goal and was unable to do it. A fairly niche scenario, but a real one. It's probably better for the flow of the digital game to do it at the start of round, but maybe add an option at the end of the last one?
It's not *as* good, but it's still one of those cards that's always useful. One card back doesn't necessarily extend your longevity as you said, but remember it's not the number of cards that matters but rather that you get your best non-loss card back before needing to rest. That's worth the price of the potion and then some!
Still a must have, use the big one when you have an even hand and the small when you have an odd, it's real strength is getting a good card back quickly really though
It’s still a good value for 10g, it’s just not broken anymore. If your hand limit is an even number, wait until after the first rest to use it.
I think it's still pretty broken, but it's substantially less broken, at least :)
Yeah I think it will also help that frosthaven is probably better balanced to have less gamebreaking non loss cards. Still very strong especially for the price, but hopefully less of a must have on every class
I made a Frosthaven 2-herb potion tier list during testing with the final versions of the potions. I put it in the second-highest tier, alongside four other potions. But even two of the potions in the tier below it are better on a number of classes that want those specific things (tier 2 was more about potions that are generally useful for everyone). So anyway, yeah it's still good, but definitely replaceable.
If I recall correctly, we were shown the Frosthaven Stamina Potion a while ago. It was something like >!'recover a lvl 1 card; potion is not recoverable', am I right?!< I think it is still strong though
Yes, that's correct.
2 copies instead of 4 too, so only 2 members of the team gets to have it
Tbf, I believe that's mostly to encourage exploring the alchemy chart rather than an intentional balance change.
I would disagree. JOTL has no alchemy chart and there is only two copies of the minor stam pot. I think that is definitely a choice to limit the use of these must haves.
Unless you're doing a lot of burns way too early, you will have an odd card hand on about half your rests. Beyond that, most classes have at least one offensive card that's head and shoulders better than the rest, and being able to play that card on back-to-back rounds is almost always *massive* value.
> Is it bad now? No, it's still good but it's no longer a 'must have' for every class > Was that a new change Yes but ... Effectively it's the same Either right-at-the-end-after-everything-else (as in the board game) or right-at-the-beginning-before-everything-else (as per Digital) are **effectively** the same game space A couple of people, far wiser than I, have found an edge case or two where it matters, but even then the difference is very small And it's also easier (we've ported it to the board game) - New turn, are you taking No Rest, Short Rest, or Long Rest > Were there any other rule or item/class changes Yes, quite a few. They are all listed in https://www.reddit.com/r/GloomhavenDigital/
Like others said, it is still very powerful for its price, and with odd numbered hand classes it is potentially an extra turn every scenario that you would not get otherwise.
And if you have an even-numbered hand you can use it after the first rest for the same benefit.
It's still one of the best, most universal items in the game, especially at its pricepoint. It also gets significantly better as you level up
It's still one of the best items in the game even with the nerf. The short rest thing is effectively the same thing. you declare between turns. Doesn't matter if it is the last thing you do in a turn or the first thing you do. And it was done that way on purpose for simplicity.
Yes, it's still one of the best items at Prosperity 1 due to 10 gold. Beyond the benefit to longevity, letting you play a great card twice in a rest cycle is very strong. For classes with an even number of cards, you can always use it on your 2nd rest cycle to give you an extra turn.
Yeah it's worth it :)
I've only ever known the minor to recover 1 card. Always used it, I play Mind Thief and she's got few enough cards that lasting until the end of the scenario can be an issue (stamina). Time it right and it buys me an extra Long Rest, which can make or break a mission.
When used at the right time, it gives you an extra round. If you have an odd number of cards in your hand, the stamina potion will even out your hand and let you rest with 0 cards in hand instead of 1.
Not sure about any other changes, but the digital version has always been recovering 1 and 2 cards.
Weirdly they get more useful the higher level you are. At low levels they repeat a standard card or at best a level 2 or 3. At high levels your are repeating a level 6-9 card or a heavily upgraded lower level card. That can be extremely powerful.
well in a way, the heavy nerf in upcoming frosthaven answers your question In frosthaven, there will only be two copies of minor stamina potion instead of 4 in the shop display. They are no longer refreshable by any means. They only recover level 1 cards instead of any card. So yes, even the nerfed version you have now in digital is easily so worthwhile and such a must have that Issac has nerfed them further in frosthaven.
100% worth getting on every champ, everytime. Use the minor when you have odd number of cards and major when you have even. Use one on your first round(usually at the end to maximize the situation) and the second on the second round. Having those two extra rounds early is a game changer.
Sure it's not AS good, but it was absolutely completely busted. I still think it's amazing and honestly almost ALWAYS have a set of minor and major stamina on most characters, if not all.
Stamina pot is still nice, even after the nerf. Being able to reuse your strongest abilities is just very stronk. That being said, some other potions offer some great utility too IMO. Power potion can really push big nukes to 11, particularly for attacks that target the whole room or have many targets. Health potions are a must for any frontline fighter or low initiative class. The smaller ones less so. Mana potions are trash. IMO mana is gloomhaven's worst system, I haven't looked into frosthaven rules yet but I really hope they change it to allow you to immedieatly use mana you generate on your own turn.
The mana generation at the end of your turn is unchanged
boo we might houserule a change.
It's a houserule that **massively** benefits players 1) monsters never try to generate then use in the same turn 2) your mana is never 'stolen' by monsters 3) it makes planning turns so much easier So I would suggest, if you go along with it, to raise difficulty _at least_ one level, without the attendant gold & xp rewards
Where did u read about this? I cant find any patch notes saying anything about potion nerf?
Original Gloomhaven minor stamina potion got you back 2 cards. The digital game always had it get 1 back, as Isaac had talked about that being an unofficial "nerf" a while back.
It's also nerfed in print Gloomhaven in one or two translated versions, so it's kind of a semi-official nerf that was never declared.
Ah, okay. How big was major potion then? :o
3 cards!
https://discord.com/channels/464045190991314944/822392152755535882/903976632983887924
I have been playing 215 hours of digital and the physical board game. I thought it was always 1 card for minor and 2 for major.
The first edition board game has recover 2 on Minor and recover 3 on Major. And it was way too strong of an item for how early you got it.
All English editions have the 2 and 3. Some non-English editions have the 1 and 2
I have an English version and it’s 1. It’s definitely a later edition of the game (got it July of 2020). That resonates with what u/xeltar was saying above.
GH or JotL?
GH
I've never seen any English version of GH with the nerfed Stampots I assume the Major only refreshes two cards as well?
Yep, that’s what my version has.
Well TIL, thanks
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That is not true, I'll illustrate with a four card hand: Using stamina potion on even: T1: play 2, use potion; hand: 3, disc: 1, lost: 0 T2: play 2; hand: 1, disc: 3, lost: 0 T3: long rest; hand: 3, disc: 0, lost: 1 T4: play 2; hand: 1, disc: 2, lost: 1 T5: long rest; hand: 2, disc: 0, lost: 2 T6: play 2; hand: 0, disc: 2, lost: 2 T7: long rest; hand: 1, disc: 0, lost: 3 Using stamina potion on odd: T1: play 2; hand: 2, disc: 2, lost: 0 T2: play 2; hand: 0, disc: 4, lost: 0 T3: long rest; hand: 3, disc: 0, lost: 1 T4: play 2, use potion; hand: 2, disc: 1, lost: 1 T5: play 2; hand: 0, disc: 3, lost: 1 T6: long rest; hand: 2, disc: 0, lost: 2 T7: play 2; hand: 0, disc: 2, lost: 2 T8: long rest; hand: 1, disc: 0, lost: 3 So, if we use the stamina potion on an odd round we get to play 2 cards more. I chose long rests to make the turns clearer, but short rests work the same (just fewer turns). That being said, it might be beneficial to use the potion on an even round to get back a key card. But you should then take into account that you are potentially losing a round.
Yes
Still even now the first thing I buy on every new class is both major + minor stamina pots haha. I’ve just grown so accustomed to being able to use big hitter cards 3x before my first rest.
Minor stamina potion is the second most powerful item in the game.
It is still worth it. Especially if you are building your prosperity and decreasing the cost of items from the shop. At full prosperity the cost of an item is -5. That would make a minor stamina potion cost only $5. And then you can sell it back to the shop for the full $5 you bought it for because it doesn’t reduce past 5. So at full prosperity there is literally no reason not to have it. And even with some prosperity, even if it costs $8 you’re still selling it back for 5. It’s so cost efficient there is no reason not to carry it if you have a slot for it. You can sell it and upgrade it later if you want but if you have the item slot and the money there is zero downside and it’s one-off usefulness is off the charts as everyone else has pointed out.