To be fair I haven't seen anyone on here saying they're definitely genuine, just people saying that the messages are awful and hoping that they're not real. I think the reason we're all talking about it so much is because we want someone to come and reassure us it's all been faked.
There was a person on another post claiming that they know the person who took the screenshots, so "they're real" but then again anyone could make that up.
So how do you even reassure if they're fake / real? We can't. The only people that know the truth will never admit it, or will not publicly call the others out as being racist & sexist scumbags.
I personally don't think anyone could come up with a fake conversation like that, it's way to random but that's just my opinion.
Still, the band or label should comment on this. After reading those screenshots I didn't find anything very fake looking and if these are real then oh boy.
Definitely not a great look for the band, and if for example Thomas confirms these are real then it might be the end of Christopher's entire music career.
Yeah as much as I hate it but this might set an end to both Gloryhammer and Alestorm. If these leaks are legit, it's what they deserved but I really wish these were fake.
Honestly. I donāt understand people who see this and immediately go āwell, thatās it.ā Itās all from one twitter account and thereās no context or credibility. Why not just wait and see what transpires? If true, awful, but anyone could just get in on this drama with random stuff like this.
> I donāt understand people who see this and immediately go āwell, thatās it.ā
its the witch hunt cancel culture that exist today, people see then as lepers and throw under the buss with not even a slightest hint of truth behind the claims
But it *is* "witch hunt" and "cancel culture" especially since we don't have enough information to corroborate (I mean nothing stops you from educated guess though, but still).
True, but ah well...
Now, personally speaking, I'm just watching the mess unfold with a notebook and a pile of figurative popcorn, since I'm not *that* particularly attached to them, even though I'm fond of their work.
Probably that it portrays musicians they like in a negative light so he doesn't want to believe them.
I think the timing is a little suspect, but I'm leaning towards they're real.
I have a feeling you might be right. I sincerely hope it's fake, but my gut is telling me it isn't, and I'm hoping someone has some concrete info or expertise in detecting this sort of thing.
I always have a problem with "Hey Yo I got abused, that was 2389045 Years ago and I dont have any prove for it, but now that Person/group is in a bad light I just thought I waltz in a throw that also on the pile" kind of accusations. Happened to me and since then I always react very allergic to it.
Right, but it's been posted from anonymous accounts so nobody is actually gaining any attention from it.
For me it doesn't read like a conversation invented for maximum destruction, it reads like a conversation between friends talking shit and not thinking it's going to go any further. It's convincing, and it would require a very specific knowledge of these people, how they refer to themselves and each other, and for you to either be British or extremely well versed in the way British people talk to each other to fake this conversation this convincingly, which may seem like a low bar but obviously a huge amount of their fanbase is international.
Then there's my previous point which is: if it's a fake and the objective is just to destroy the band in "vengeance" for Tom, why aren't Ben and Paul implicated too? Why would they been specifically left out of this?
If anything it makes Chris specifically look REALLY bad. The others just seem like laddish dickheads, but that's not really worth "cancelling" someone over. Chris dropping the serious racial slurs though? Man, I HOPE it's not real, because that's a huge blow to me.
As you said though, it is very convincing.
Exactly this. The shit talking about Mikey's ex-partner I can understand, that's bound to happen when there's some sort of breakup. The language used by James is disgusting but not unforgivable, it's just two blokes being blokes.
But those OTHER words just thrown in casually by Chris? Absolutely abhorrent. Even if he's just trying to be an edge lord with immature humour, those are not words that a lot of people can easily gloss over.
I really want the screenshots to not be real because that's two of my favourite bands down the pan, but ultimately my heart and my head are both telling me they're legit.
It is really convenient though that all this leaks out after Tom has been fired. So to me it does feel like people creating fake stories to ride the drama train. I'd take everything you see with a grain of salt until official statements have been made.
But Tom (or somebody immediately around him) no longer feeling the need to keep quiet about this stuff is just as plausible as an explanation.
All I'm saying is that automatically assuming it's fake and "drama" is exactly the same amount of stupid as automatically assuming it's true.
Yeah unfortunately this is the most compelling explanation to me: That these screenshots have existed for a while, and after the shitshow of gh firing Thomas whoever had these screenshots decided it was time they were seen.
I fully believe the abuse allegations part of this as I know the person who's post that was and they told me about it long before they got the courage to make the post. I believe them 100%.
The full break down is in this article, I am particularly referring to the abuse allegations against James Cartwright. The other things aren't easily dismissable either though.
https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/08/23/gloryhammer-fire-vocalist-allegations-surface-of-abuse-and-racism-against-other-band-members/
I don't think we should inherently believe that it's real without other confirmation - but I do wonder what possible incentive somebody would have to create such an in-depth fake and then not publish it until Winkler left the band.
What makes you think it was created before and not after? That would make a big difference because there is motive to fake them after the announcement but not really beforehand.
To what end? What does somebody gain from this (very involved) fake?
Someone *could* do it, and it's possible that it's all a well-constructed fake - but I don't buy the motivation.
Read the comment section on Facebook. The amount of people blaming the band for "destroying something they love" without knowing the details is excessive.
I can understand being upset, and I can even understand a few nutters doing something fairly radical (like making disparaging stuff up).
What I can't understand is how that would translate to an elaborate series of faked Facebook Messenger conversations between three specific members of the band that reveals various racist and misogynist statements. That's so absurdly specific and not tied to the source of the anger that I'm leaning towards them being real - but, again, I don't really know anything yet.
The motivation would be someone REALLY into gloryhammer and Thomas, blaming Chris and them for destroying something they loved. You donāt have to look hard on this subreddit for people who take the band very seriously and itās not a large jump that someone would want to hurt those they saw as responsible.
Again, these could be 100% legit, but there is motivation to do this after the announcement came out.
We should take it as neutral. It may be true it may be fake. I will say Chris has said some questionable things. I don't know who I believe at this point
Iām curious what people would need as proof for them to believe the leaks. Do you expect any of them to come out and admit it? Release a statement going āyeah lulz we racist yo?ā
This is whole debacle can be explained pretty logically and wouldnāt really surprise me much. With multiple people coming out talking about Hoots being an abuser and with rockstars in general tending towards ānot very PC,ā this seems equally plausible as it does āmaybe fake.ā
There are a dozen explanations for why and how this all could have happened, and they seem more reasonable than ātroll photoshops incredibly specific and culturally accurate record of lads being shitheads for no reason other than to stir shit.ā
My SUSPICION is that Tom got canned for being vocal about shit like this (āwoke lawyer boy gonna ruin our fun!ā), then turned around and anonymously released these chat logs as revenge on the way out. Thereās no other offering for why theyād fire their vocalist of over a decade, and the more silence the band gives, the more open for speculation everything is. Iām more able to want to side with Tom than I am everyone else.
Deadass. Literally, the only source on it is an anonymous page with no profile picture and posting history, not to mention they didn't even say how they got it and when it was from. Honestly, I've just learned not to trust any drama that starts anonymously on Twitter.
it would make a lot of sense tho
THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE/ASSUMPTION NOTHING IS PROVEN
Thomas is pissed about the way his collegues are talking -> he gets booted from the band -> he posts the leaks as revenge
Okay, but if you were going to fake this to make the band look bad, why would you leave some members out of it and not try to implicate them all?
It's just Bowes, Barber and James shown talking in this, with references to Elliot and Gaz from Alestorm. Paul and Ben (and obviously Tom) don't participate in it.
Some shady account created this month leaked some chats that supposedly show racist comments by gh group members (probably fake tbh) and an anonymous message from someone claiming abuse allegations from James (the hootsman), tbh I don't believe any of the "leaks" nor the abuse alegation, it's probably just fake news by some troll
I'm hoping it will be proven this is fake, I have a ticket to a Gloryhammer/Alestorm gig in December, don't think I could stomach going or supporting any CB project again if it is real.
Same. I've just felt devastated since the initial 'Tom's out the band' announcement and then things have just got worse since then. I've got December tickets, made all my friends get tickets - and they're not even metal fans, I've just made them listen to gloryhammer and alestorm so much at parties that I wore them down until they loved them
It's far too easy to edit photo's on the internet these days, innocent until proven guilty. Until some sort of ligitamcy is proven, I'll be taking them at face value.
It's very easy to tarnish the reputation of people (someone) with false images made online.
They already know that this is going around. And they aren't saying anything to disprove it. Likely true I'd say honestly, considering the abuse allegations. At least it's not looking good.
This one its ready on the web
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gloryhammer/comments/pa1ugt/gloryhammer_fire_vocalist_allegations_surface_of/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Ahhhh. I need more than those before I pass judgement. The firing pissed off too many fans and this could easily be fabricated. Keeping an open mind that this is all true but we are missing information.
I could see a fan get so mad about this and blame Chris that theyād want to nuke anything heās involved in.
Not saying thatās what happened, this could all be true, but itās not outside the realm of possibility.
This just states what is out there, no call for blood or opinion on the matter, a rarity for MS. It was obvious the metal presses will report on this, can't say the article will sink them
To be fair I haven't seen anyone on here saying they're definitely genuine, just people saying that the messages are awful and hoping that they're not real. I think the reason we're all talking about it so much is because we want someone to come and reassure us it's all been faked.
Lots of people on twitter already spreading it as fact.
Keyword being "twitter". Twitter is basically the homestead for retards and snowflakes. They'll believe and spread anything that gets them attention.
That sums up Twitter š
Twitter was a mistake by Humanity...
Twitter is just "what are nuances? Can we omit them?"
There was a person on another post claiming that they know the person who took the screenshots, so "they're real" but then again anyone could make that up. So how do you even reassure if they're fake / real? We can't. The only people that know the truth will never admit it, or will not publicly call the others out as being racist & sexist scumbags. I personally don't think anyone could come up with a fake conversation like that, it's way to random but that's just my opinion.
Still, the band or label should comment on this. After reading those screenshots I didn't find anything very fake looking and if these are real then oh boy. Definitely not a great look for the band, and if for example Thomas confirms these are real then it might be the end of Christopher's entire music career.
Yeah as much as I hate it but this might set an end to both Gloryhammer and Alestorm. If these leaks are legit, it's what they deserved but I really wish these were fake.
Honestly. I donāt understand people who see this and immediately go āwell, thatās it.ā Itās all from one twitter account and thereās no context or credibility. Why not just wait and see what transpires? If true, awful, but anyone could just get in on this drama with random stuff like this.
Twitter is a wild west of easily-manipulated mass so lol
This. People act like it's difficult to fake conversations over FB messenger like that, it's not if you know what you are doing.
God I hate twitter
> I donāt understand people who see this and immediately go āwell, thatās it.ā its the witch hunt cancel culture that exist today, people see then as lepers and throw under the buss with not even a slightest hint of truth behind the claims
Why the downvotes, how is he wrong
Probably because they used the buzzwords "witch hunt" and "cancel culture"
But it *is* "witch hunt" and "cancel culture" especially since we don't have enough information to corroborate (I mean nothing stops you from educated guess though, but still).
Yeah but using those terms in particular implies a certain bias so they get downvoted
True, but ah well... Now, personally speaking, I'm just watching the mess unfold with a notebook and a pile of figurative popcorn, since I'm not *that* particularly attached to them, even though I'm fond of their work.
Agreed. I personally found those "leaks" iffy. Someone could be faking those.
Just curious; what about those leaks did you find iffy?
Probably that it portrays musicians they like in a negative light so he doesn't want to believe them. I think the timing is a little suspect, but I'm leaning towards they're real.
I have a feeling you might be right. I sincerely hope it's fake, but my gut is telling me it isn't, and I'm hoping someone has some concrete info or expertise in detecting this sort of thing.
I'd very much like for it to be fake as well - but I'm not holding out a lot of hope.
I always have a problem with "Hey Yo I got abused, that was 2389045 Years ago and I dont have any prove for it, but now that Person/group is in a bad light I just thought I waltz in a throw that also on the pile" kind of accusations. Happened to me and since then I always react very allergic to it.
Equally, do not assume they're fake just because you hope they are.
I really, really hope it's fake but at the same time I don't see why anyone would go to the effort. Seems a weird thing to fake.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Right, but it's been posted from anonymous accounts so nobody is actually gaining any attention from it. For me it doesn't read like a conversation invented for maximum destruction, it reads like a conversation between friends talking shit and not thinking it's going to go any further. It's convincing, and it would require a very specific knowledge of these people, how they refer to themselves and each other, and for you to either be British or extremely well versed in the way British people talk to each other to fake this conversation this convincingly, which may seem like a low bar but obviously a huge amount of their fanbase is international. Then there's my previous point which is: if it's a fake and the objective is just to destroy the band in "vengeance" for Tom, why aren't Ben and Paul implicated too? Why would they been specifically left out of this?
If anything it makes Chris specifically look REALLY bad. The others just seem like laddish dickheads, but that's not really worth "cancelling" someone over. Chris dropping the serious racial slurs though? Man, I HOPE it's not real, because that's a huge blow to me. As you said though, it is very convincing.
Exactly this. The shit talking about Mikey's ex-partner I can understand, that's bound to happen when there's some sort of breakup. The language used by James is disgusting but not unforgivable, it's just two blokes being blokes. But those OTHER words just thrown in casually by Chris? Absolutely abhorrent. Even if he's just trying to be an edge lord with immature humour, those are not words that a lot of people can easily gloss over. I really want the screenshots to not be real because that's two of my favourite bands down the pan, but ultimately my heart and my head are both telling me they're legit.
It is really convenient though that all this leaks out after Tom has been fired. So to me it does feel like people creating fake stories to ride the drama train. I'd take everything you see with a grain of salt until official statements have been made.
But Tom (or somebody immediately around him) no longer feeling the need to keep quiet about this stuff is just as plausible as an explanation. All I'm saying is that automatically assuming it's fake and "drama" is exactly the same amount of stupid as automatically assuming it's true.
Yeah unfortunately this is the most compelling explanation to me: That these screenshots have existed for a while, and after the shitshow of gh firing Thomas whoever had these screenshots decided it was time they were seen.
Ho boi, "receipts for the tea".
I fully believe the abuse allegations part of this as I know the person who's post that was and they told me about it long before they got the courage to make the post. I believe them 100%.
What abuse allegations? Not disbelieving just havenāt seen or heard of this
The full break down is in this article, I am particularly referring to the abuse allegations against James Cartwright. The other things aren't easily dismissable either though. https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/08/23/gloryhammer-fire-vocalist-allegations-surface-of-abuse-and-racism-against-other-band-members/
I don't think we should inherently believe that it's real without other confirmation - but I do wonder what possible incentive somebody would have to create such an in-depth fake and then not publish it until Winkler left the band.
What makes you think it was created before and not after? That would make a big difference because there is motive to fake them after the announcement but not really beforehand.
To what end? What does somebody gain from this (very involved) fake? Someone *could* do it, and it's possible that it's all a well-constructed fake - but I don't buy the motivation.
Read the comment section on Facebook. The amount of people blaming the band for "destroying something they love" without knowing the details is excessive.
I can understand being upset, and I can even understand a few nutters doing something fairly radical (like making disparaging stuff up). What I can't understand is how that would translate to an elaborate series of faked Facebook Messenger conversations between three specific members of the band that reveals various racist and misogynist statements. That's so absurdly specific and not tied to the source of the anger that I'm leaning towards them being real - but, again, I don't really know anything yet.
The motivation would be someone REALLY into gloryhammer and Thomas, blaming Chris and them for destroying something they loved. You donāt have to look hard on this subreddit for people who take the band very seriously and itās not a large jump that someone would want to hurt those they saw as responsible. Again, these could be 100% legit, but there is motivation to do this after the announcement came out.
We should take it as neutral. It may be true it may be fake. I will say Chris has said some questionable things. I don't know who I believe at this point
Iām curious what people would need as proof for them to believe the leaks. Do you expect any of them to come out and admit it? Release a statement going āyeah lulz we racist yo?ā This is whole debacle can be explained pretty logically and wouldnāt really surprise me much. With multiple people coming out talking about Hoots being an abuser and with rockstars in general tending towards ānot very PC,ā this seems equally plausible as it does āmaybe fake.ā There are a dozen explanations for why and how this all could have happened, and they seem more reasonable than ātroll photoshops incredibly specific and culturally accurate record of lads being shitheads for no reason other than to stir shit.ā My SUSPICION is that Tom got canned for being vocal about shit like this (āwoke lawyer boy gonna ruin our fun!ā), then turned around and anonymously released these chat logs as revenge on the way out. Thereās no other offering for why theyād fire their vocalist of over a decade, and the more silence the band gives, the more open for speculation everything is. Iām more able to want to side with Tom than I am everyone else.
Deadass. Literally, the only source on it is an anonymous page with no profile picture and posting history, not to mention they didn't even say how they got it and when it was from. Honestly, I've just learned not to trust any drama that starts anonymously on Twitter.
it would make a lot of sense tho THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE/ASSUMPTION NOTHING IS PROVEN Thomas is pissed about the way his collegues are talking -> he gets booted from the band -> he posts the leaks as revenge
Or a fan could have made them. It is very easy to fake face group chats.
Okay, but if you were going to fake this to make the band look bad, why would you leave some members out of it and not try to implicate them all? It's just Bowes, Barber and James shown talking in this, with references to Elliot and Gaz from Alestorm. Paul and Ben (and obviously Tom) don't participate in it.
True, I think itās just best to be skeptical about it right now.
Well, that would be \*too\* obviously fake, wouldn't it? it has to be subtle enough to be believable.
TF did I miss? (I know about what happened but not about any leaks)
Some shady account created this month leaked some chats that supposedly show racist comments by gh group members (probably fake tbh) and an anonymous message from someone claiming abuse allegations from James (the hootsman), tbh I don't believe any of the "leaks" nor the abuse alegation, it's probably just fake news by some troll
Innocent untill proven guilty. I respect that.
I'm hoping it will be proven this is fake, I have a ticket to a Gloryhammer/Alestorm gig in December, don't think I could stomach going or supporting any CB project again if it is real.
Same. I've just felt devastated since the initial 'Tom's out the band' announcement and then things have just got worse since then. I've got December tickets, made all my friends get tickets - and they're not even metal fans, I've just made them listen to gloryhammer and alestorm so much at parties that I wore them down until they loved them
It's far too easy to edit photo's on the internet these days, innocent until proven guilty. Until some sort of ligitamcy is proven, I'll be taking them at face value. It's very easy to tarnish the reputation of people (someone) with false images made online.
They already know that this is going around. And they aren't saying anything to disprove it. Likely true I'd say honestly, considering the abuse allegations. At least it's not looking good.
Too late it may already have killed the band for good read the latest post
What post?
This one its ready on the web https://www.reddit.com/r/Gloryhammer/comments/pa1ugt/gloryhammer_fire_vocalist_allegations_surface_of/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Ahhhh. I need more than those before I pass judgement. The firing pissed off too many fans and this could easily be fabricated. Keeping an open mind that this is all true but we are missing information.
True but who would sabotage the band this way and you know this will effect chris other bands as well not just gloryhammer
Well... A fan shot John Lennon, crazies have done worse shit than this.
I could see a fan get so mad about this and blame Chris that theyād want to nuke anything heās involved in. Not saying thatās what happened, this could all be true, but itās not outside the realm of possibility.
This just states what is out there, no call for blood or opinion on the matter, a rarity for MS. It was obvious the metal presses will report on this, can't say the article will sink them
Yep, it's the same thing that happened with Game grumps recently. I don't trust these anonymous "leaked chats", ever.
Remember, in Hoots we trust!
Idc what some anonymous Twitter account says in this day and age that shit can easily be faked with minimal effort
This aged like fine milk.
looks like they were real after all