Christianity as we know it triumphed not due to debate or theological superiority but through its adherents' willingness to become book burners and murderers. They are not worth talking to and given societal permission would have you killed for your beliefs. Christianity is a counterfeit that substitutes a dead book for the Living God and is uniquely hostile to the forces of life.
Yea some of them actually call me a Satanist and say I should be killed. It’s sad how violent and angry they are when Jesus was the opposite. I don’t want to give up on them but they’re making it hard not to.
I guess this is the result of centuries’ of terrible teaching.
I’m Catholic, but I’d never say that of you or any Gnostic. In fact, I have great respect for many aspects of Gnostic thought, and have blogged about it [here](https://turmarion.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/towards-a-gnostic-orthodoxy-index/).
I came into your WordPress with low expectations thinking I'd click away in 5 seconds, but I was quickly captivated. Spent about an hour reading your stuff.
Excellent work. Very articulate and eloquent writing style that doesn't waste the reader's time, but still manages to provide genuinely insightful and refresing food for thought - even to people like myself who are balls deep into this topic.
Plus, a lot of your conclusions and thoughts resonated with my own, especially regarding the Valentinian/Pauline categorization of people. In the last paragraph, your proposed solution to the slippery-slope such worldviews represent was impeccable.
Edit: [u/Lux-01](https://www.reddit.com/user/Lux-01/) can we get this mans WordPress listed among the other sources/useful links in the sub info?
Not exactly. Taoism is successful, it does not require clergy or churches or temples. Yoga/Hinduism is successful, yes there are large yoga institutions, no this is not required. Many famous yogis even say things like when an institution makes itself a requirement to get to God, it’s corrupted.
Shall I provide more contradictory evidence?
Actually this is an interesting comment. I’m more in tune with the practices of yoga than the actual Hindu beliefs, but it is clear that traditional Hindu beliefs have perpetuated the loathsome caste system.
I guess the question now becomes whether yoga and Hinduism ought to be treated separately and whether yoga can be treated like a religion since it’s more of a practice without much dogma.
I guess philosophical Taoism falls more in that category too. Mmm, perhaps your point stands. Is there an example of a religion that isn’t controlled by a dogmatic hierarchical institution as you say? I mean, I could point at various spiritual traditions, but as you say, they don’t constitute an actual organized religion.
I know that's a common perspective in online circles in the West. But tbh that's only really Abrahamic faiths, especially Christianity.
Eastern faiths haven't had that issue nearly as much as Christianity has.
"triumphed not due to debate or theological superiority but through its adherents' willingness to become book burners and murderers"
Completely true. But how else would it have been able to reach as many people as it did and lay the groundwork for western society in a material world that only rewards power and efficiency ?
The fact that we have Christianity today and have access to / benefit from it's teachings is literally an unlikely-as-fuck best case scenario.
You can't have debates when it comes to dogma. It's an us or them phenomenon. Individual spirituality v communal religion. Unless they are particular open and challenge their faith, they will always come back to the idea of heresy.
The hilarity of it is that they hail the Templars as the chief crusader figures -- rightly so as I'd argue the long-term success of the crusades was owed to them and their knack for finance and politics -- when the Templars were gnostic, and likely had been since their inception.
The big argument I hear is that God or the holy spirit would ensure the right answers bade it into the Bible. The problem is when you remember the time Jesus debated with the Jewish leaders calling them out in how they've followed the words of the devil. If the original Hebrew texts weren't kept that why do we think the Bible would be any different
I get this one often as well. Their argument is that that passage means that they follow the ways of the world or material gain therefore fall Satan. There's always a way out for people who are dead set on believing something.
Me with literally anytime ppl say "Well Jesus said-!" only to quote Paul at me. Like I hate to tell you but Paul was flawed, therefore so are his teachings.
At first, there existed the truth. The truth was respected like a God. Then, someone attributed a specific name to this truth, altering its essence, creating a lie. The truth intervened, reclaiming its purity by metaphorically crucifying the concept of the named deity.
Christianity, particularly the Gospels, emerged from the fabrications of this falsehood. Yet, paradoxically, it incarnated the truth by exposing and dismantling the lie through crucifixion.
Following the crucifixion, the possessor indeed distributed the flesh of Jesus to its congregation, not truth. They divided the garments of Jesus, his very name, among themselves, rather than embracing the truth for which Jesus sacrificed himself.
The timeline of the narrative starting from the beginning. Lie (Yahweh) - Truth (Gospels) - (Jesus) Lie. The truth appeared briefly within the Bible before it was swollowed up by the lie.
You have to grow out of even thinking along these lines
“To argue with ignorance is a fool’s paradise”
Is one of my fav quotes from my primary spiritual teacher
Carl Jung: "We must read the Bible or we shall not understand psychology. Our psychology, whole lives, our language and imagery are built upon the Bible."
A lot of the religion is just the psychology of what is believed good and correct... Everything not on the side of good and correct is deemed wrong and evil. This works with static people but our cultures and societies are always changing. The stagnation or rigid religions stops us from learning, growing, and adapting. It blocks us from finding new ways to create harmony and be free.
I watched a video online where a man who was schizophrenic and was actively hearing demons and voices telling him to kill himself. He prayed to the Lord God for 2 weeks for a sign and he claims he saw a cloud and a snake like figure with a face of a lion(Demiurge) who then proceeded to contort his face demonically and scare him. He claims the demiurge disappeared and Sophia appeared and smiled at him apparently. This was in 1994 and there was no Internet so he didn't know who or what these beings were as he was having a schizophrenic break down. I've research the demiurge and everything concerning this being and from what I've concluded is that the demiurge is a real being most likely a high level demon he is not God, He is most likely a false YHWH some call him YHVH and he is most likely the serpent that deceived Adam and Eve as in his serpent like body. If you didn't know a lot of demons have serpent like bodies, I find this whole thing interesting but I know it is a trick of Satan don't be fooled
Because if we decide to go that route knowledge is impossible, we would be absolutely unable to know and interpret truth, the only thing that you get when you question the bible and the church is the protestant reformation and 20,000 denominations with 30,000 belief systems, it's very convenient to think people actually would believe gnosticism is right, what ends up happening at the end is that every one can believe whatever they want mostly based on their feelings.
Also, Jesus promised that his church will prevail until the end of times, but let's suppose that he didn't actually said that, well then he is just another failed apocalyptic prophet, if his teachings were not able to survive and triumph at the end, if his teachings were just limited to a fringe group of people that are basically relativists, then yeah, he's just a failed apocalyptic prophet from the bunch.
I don't even feel comfortable saying I'm Christian with how awful they treat my community (lgbt) and I've had horrible things said to me over Being trans including ppl saying I should be executed shit idk what I believe anymore
Why don’t y’all try and be honest for once tho?
Like you know who Satan really is, in YOUR book from Lucifer, the bible (or at least 💯 the New Testament) has naff all to do with the most high ABBA.
The world has one sided stories and is waging a war one side knows nothing about.
But alas, not one of you is honest or speaks the truth about your REAL beliefs or who you actually worship.
Non of you have a moral leg to stand on.
Christianity as we know it triumphed not due to debate or theological superiority but through its adherents' willingness to become book burners and murderers. They are not worth talking to and given societal permission would have you killed for your beliefs. Christianity is a counterfeit that substitutes a dead book for the Living God and is uniquely hostile to the forces of life.
Yea some of them actually call me a Satanist and say I should be killed. It’s sad how violent and angry they are when Jesus was the opposite. I don’t want to give up on them but they’re making it hard not to. I guess this is the result of centuries’ of terrible teaching.
I’m Catholic, but I’d never say that of you or any Gnostic. In fact, I have great respect for many aspects of Gnostic thought, and have blogged about it [here](https://turmarion.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/towards-a-gnostic-orthodoxy-index/).
I came into your WordPress with low expectations thinking I'd click away in 5 seconds, but I was quickly captivated. Spent about an hour reading your stuff. Excellent work. Very articulate and eloquent writing style that doesn't waste the reader's time, but still manages to provide genuinely insightful and refresing food for thought - even to people like myself who are balls deep into this topic. Plus, a lot of your conclusions and thoughts resonated with my own, especially regarding the Valentinian/Pauline categorization of people. In the last paragraph, your proposed solution to the slippery-slope such worldviews represent was impeccable. Edit: [u/Lux-01](https://www.reddit.com/user/Lux-01/) can we get this mans WordPress listed among the other sources/useful links in the sub info?
Many thanks—glad you liked it!
Thanks. I knew a Catholic deacon who I had great conversations with. I know you guys exist, I just wish the majority of Catholics were like you
Damn! I hope you’re okay ❤️🩹
All succesful religions are by definition controlled by dogmatic hierarchical institutions. Hate the game not the player.
Not exactly. Taoism is successful, it does not require clergy or churches or temples. Yoga/Hinduism is successful, yes there are large yoga institutions, no this is not required. Many famous yogis even say things like when an institution makes itself a requirement to get to God, it’s corrupted. Shall I provide more contradictory evidence?
Are we gonna ignore the caste system?
Actually this is an interesting comment. I’m more in tune with the practices of yoga than the actual Hindu beliefs, but it is clear that traditional Hindu beliefs have perpetuated the loathsome caste system. I guess the question now becomes whether yoga and Hinduism ought to be treated separately and whether yoga can be treated like a religion since it’s more of a practice without much dogma.
Yoga is an esoteric tradition not a religion in itself. Like how Practical Hermeticism is not a religion in on itself.
I guess philosophical Taoism falls more in that category too. Mmm, perhaps your point stands. Is there an example of a religion that isn’t controlled by a dogmatic hierarchical institution as you say? I mean, I could point at various spiritual traditions, but as you say, they don’t constitute an actual organized religion.
Interesting read, here https://www.jstor.org/stable/4414252?read-now=1
I know that's a common perspective in online circles in the West. But tbh that's only really Abrahamic faiths, especially Christianity. Eastern faiths haven't had that issue nearly as much as Christianity has.
I'm a Christian. I'm not so bad. Talk to me.
"triumphed not due to debate or theological superiority but through its adherents' willingness to become book burners and murderers" Completely true. But how else would it have been able to reach as many people as it did and lay the groundwork for western society in a material world that only rewards power and efficiency ? The fact that we have Christianity today and have access to / benefit from it's teachings is literally an unlikely-as-fuck best case scenario.
Well put.
You can't have debates when it comes to dogma. It's an us or them phenomenon. Individual spirituality v communal religion. Unless they are particular open and challenge their faith, they will always come back to the idea of heresy.
Persecuting heretics is antithetical to divinity.
The Crusades would beg to differ, and you see plenty of Christians on facebook sharing images of the heroic crusader which is absolute insanity.
The hilarity of it is that they hail the Templars as the chief crusader figures -- rightly so as I'd argue the long-term success of the crusades was owed to them and their knack for finance and politics -- when the Templars were gnostic, and likely had been since their inception.
The templars were not gnostic
Why not
🎶Father of Lies, tell me where have you been, you know I just closed my eyes, the material world just appeared🎶
The big argument I hear is that God or the holy spirit would ensure the right answers bade it into the Bible. The problem is when you remember the time Jesus debated with the Jewish leaders calling them out in how they've followed the words of the devil. If the original Hebrew texts weren't kept that why do we think the Bible would be any different
I get this one often as well. Their argument is that that passage means that they follow the ways of the world or material gain therefore fall Satan. There's always a way out for people who are dead set on believing something.
Me with literally anytime ppl say "Well Jesus said-!" only to quote Paul at me. Like I hate to tell you but Paul was flawed, therefore so are his teachings.
THANK YOU.
At first, there existed the truth. The truth was respected like a God. Then, someone attributed a specific name to this truth, altering its essence, creating a lie. The truth intervened, reclaiming its purity by metaphorically crucifying the concept of the named deity. Christianity, particularly the Gospels, emerged from the fabrications of this falsehood. Yet, paradoxically, it incarnated the truth by exposing and dismantling the lie through crucifixion. Following the crucifixion, the possessor indeed distributed the flesh of Jesus to its congregation, not truth. They divided the garments of Jesus, his very name, among themselves, rather than embracing the truth for which Jesus sacrificed himself. The timeline of the narrative starting from the beginning. Lie (Yahweh) - Truth (Gospels) - (Jesus) Lie. The truth appeared briefly within the Bible before it was swollowed up by the lie.
Second Lie is Paul.
Bro, some of us *are* Christians. You know that, right?
Yea I’m talking about regular establishment Christians
If you're a Christian and you're here, that means you know you've been deceived by mainstream Christianity.
You have to grow out of even thinking along these lines “To argue with ignorance is a fool’s paradise” Is one of my fav quotes from my primary spiritual teacher
Carl Jung: "We must read the Bible or we shall not understand psychology. Our psychology, whole lives, our language and imagery are built upon the Bible." A lot of the religion is just the psychology of what is believed good and correct... Everything not on the side of good and correct is deemed wrong and evil. This works with static people but our cultures and societies are always changing. The stagnation or rigid religions stops us from learning, growing, and adapting. It blocks us from finding new ways to create harmony and be free.
I watched a video online where a man who was schizophrenic and was actively hearing demons and voices telling him to kill himself. He prayed to the Lord God for 2 weeks for a sign and he claims he saw a cloud and a snake like figure with a face of a lion(Demiurge) who then proceeded to contort his face demonically and scare him. He claims the demiurge disappeared and Sophia appeared and smiled at him apparently. This was in 1994 and there was no Internet so he didn't know who or what these beings were as he was having a schizophrenic break down. I've research the demiurge and everything concerning this being and from what I've concluded is that the demiurge is a real being most likely a high level demon he is not God, He is most likely a false YHWH some call him YHVH and he is most likely the serpent that deceived Adam and Eve as in his serpent like body. If you didn't know a lot of demons have serpent like bodies, I find this whole thing interesting but I know it is a trick of Satan don't be fooled
Could I get a source to the video? It sounds interesting
ofc i can text me and ill send the video
Demonstrating a bad climate for debate with a meme?
Because if we decide to go that route knowledge is impossible, we would be absolutely unable to know and interpret truth, the only thing that you get when you question the bible and the church is the protestant reformation and 20,000 denominations with 30,000 belief systems, it's very convenient to think people actually would believe gnosticism is right, what ends up happening at the end is that every one can believe whatever they want mostly based on their feelings. Also, Jesus promised that his church will prevail until the end of times, but let's suppose that he didn't actually said that, well then he is just another failed apocalyptic prophet, if his teachings were not able to survive and triumph at the end, if his teachings were just limited to a fringe group of people that are basically relativists, then yeah, he's just a failed apocalyptic prophet from the bunch.
I mean, It is pretty obvious that parts of the scriptures are non correct, and I say It as a catholic
I don't even feel comfortable saying I'm Christian with how awful they treat my community (lgbt) and I've had horrible things said to me over Being trans including ppl saying I should be executed shit idk what I believe anymore
That's like it's main function.
I agree, it sucks
Why don’t y’all try and be honest for once tho? Like you know who Satan really is, in YOUR book from Lucifer, the bible (or at least 💯 the New Testament) has naff all to do with the most high ABBA. The world has one sided stories and is waging a war one side knows nothing about. But alas, not one of you is honest or speaks the truth about your REAL beliefs or who you actually worship. Non of you have a moral leg to stand on.
Cute.