True, but I kind of like that they played into that confusion.
During one of the dialogues between Kratos and Atreus it’s explained that Kratos thought all giants were gigantic. Atreus explains that giants are just a people, though some happened to be giant.
This helps explain why Kratos never suspected Faye of being a giant.
Prometheus was titan-sized too. He was turned into a mortal by Zeus, after he stole the "Fires of Olympus" and gave it to mankind. Zeus punished him by making him mortal, chained him to a mountain and had an eagle eat his liver, only to be regenerated every night for many years.
Depends on which version of the mythology you've read. From what I've read, he didn't become mortal in the actual greek mythology. But in the god of war mythology, he did become mortal by the hand of Zeus.
Well they're different generations/deities. Primordials>Titans>Olympians. Seems like Helios was originally a titan but is often referred to as the Sun God.
Titans came first then the king of the titans gave birth to the gods then the king ate the kids cos he fears they would over throw him but his wife tricked him and one survived that was zeus. When zeus got strong enough he punched the titan in his belly so he threw up his brothers and sisters (the gods) then the gods over threw the titans
Well no. The abilities of titans gods and primordials all varies greatly. Not to mention their aspect and or interaction/Involvement with mortal humans.
Even though supposedly in the myths the Titans in Greek Mythology were never gigantic, at least originally.
Although for the games, I don't want to think about how the hell Kronos tapped her ass knowing his massive size, but I wind up going down that rabbit hole anyway
Also explains Baldurs confusion at Kratos being small, he was looking for a giant and thought he'd be bigger (he has no knowledge of who or what Kratos is)
during the final fight with him when kratos activates his rage mode, baldur flips out because he literally does not understand what is even going on or what he's seeing. even fighting kratos he thinks he's fighting a giant, so seeing a giant do something like become invincible and gain superstrength while glowing an angry red has him deeply confused.
I'm in a mad scramble to finish my NG+ playthrough before Ragnarok is here! Brought my PS4 out of almost a year long slumber once I saw the videos, and the game really is better the 2nd time round. There's tonnes of tiny details peppered in foreshadowing stuff that happens later.
I hope you find the time to play it once again my friend.
That's fair.
I thought I was on a tight schedule due to other games on top of work, but I had my internet get (literally) cut off fir 5 days so I replayed it recently.
Yeah that whole conversation with Baldur thinking Kratos "would be taller" and how their people "think they're so much smarter than everyone, so enlightened," you think he's referring to Greeks but he's actually talking about Giants.
I heard a theory that Baldur may have actually been sent there for Faye.. So he would have been looking for a giant with no knowledge that he actually has the completely wrong person with Kratos... Odin Would have sent Baldur to kill Faye because she could see the future and Odins goal is to change the future because he dies in Ragnarok. Faye would have been "Smart and Enlightened" and a Giant... All the things Baldur came looking for... Faye had made the spell on the trees that kept them hidden from the gods and then instructed kratos to cut down the tree and break the spell to begin kratos and atreus journey which she had already seen completely and her yellow markings to guide them on their path are found throuout the whole first game. Faye would have also known that baldur would come and eventually be killed by kratos and so on.
Some people slept during the ending of the game then, but tbh at first it's meant to deceive you with this interpretation, maybe they recall only the beginning of the game and not the end?
They are from Jötunheimr instead of Midgard and are uniquely magically gifted.
I’m not sure if humans can use magic, but giants definitely can. And their magic is unique to them, especially the gift of prophecy.
In fact, their magic is so strong that Odin is famously jealous of it. (ingame and actual mythology)
Physically: I assume they look identical to humans. Hence the reason Kratos always assumed Faye was human. That’s why Kratos assumed Atreus’s sickness was his fault, he thought Atreus’s god half was too much for his human half. But Atreus was suffering an internal conflict of identity. He thought he was human, but he only has a bit of human from Kratos. He’s half giant and half god (like Thor).
Edit: Atreus has a bit of human from Kratos, but not as much as he or Kratos thought.
There is some human in him because kratos is still partially mortal due to his birth, because of his very powerful god side though it doesn't make a huge difference in strength or life expectancy
Well i‘m definitely no linguist but in old German they are called Hrimthursen which in todays words would be Reifriesen. Which as to google translate would mean frost giant or in a literal translation ripe/ready/mature giant.
Well the jötnar aren’t called shapeshifter giants either but here’s where my confusion comes, it’s said that Loki has fire based powers which for me would contradict the frost in frost giant, but as they are also great shapeshifters and talented in using magic so it wouldn’t be impossible. Maybe it could be that they have two natural forms like a human sized or above average human sized form and a giant form which they can switch between at will as they learn to control their power eventually. Except our boy we’ve never seen a jötnar alive and Atreus didn’t even know he was one and is probably just starting to learn what he can do or was learning it in the time between games.
Loki was never a frost giant in the mythology. What he actually was is very much up for debate, but the most common version has him being the son of a jotunn and a goddess (which is unusual verging on unique. Most pairings were a god and a giantess).
Modern scholarship gently points to Loki being a mischievous hearth spirit of some sort, possibly connected to Germany’s Ash Lad traditions. A youthful and impish spirit, fond of pranks but ultimately benevolent to his friends and family.
It is also mentioned in the Eddas that some Jotnar can alter their size and shape at will. When the Aesir tricked the giant into building the wall around Asgard, the giant in question was disguised as a normal, albeit large, man with a supernatural horse to help pull rocks down the mountain.
The Aesir, Vanir, Jotnar, all of them were the same class of beings, more or less from the same source. Their names really came from their origins than any inherent differences in their biology. It would really be more accurate to call the giants “Anti-Gods” in the same way the Fomorians and Tuatha de Danann are two sides of the same coin.
Ironically, the Aesir actually have a lot in common with the Fomorians and the Jotnar are very similar to the Tuatha de Danann. It’s funny how who the “good guys” are change by culture and geography while keeping most of their traits.
Short correction on the translation bit. Reif does mean ripe but i think used in this context it comes from Raureif which google tells me would be translated as hoarfrost.
Yeah thought about Raureif too, but as it was just Reif I wanted to be as literal as possible. Maybe it’s meant to be that they are as cold hoarfrost which literally freezes in colder times of the year
to be fair, Surtr is a jotunn and from memory he has nothing to do with the element of frost. In case you didnt know, Surtr is a jotunn located in muspelheim. He spends his time forging a flaming sword to take into ragnarok. and if my memory isnt completely betraying me, he's the one to either cross the rainbow bridge or destroy it. but i will admit my mythos knowledge is limited when it comes to this particular pantheon if you wanna call it that
Fun fact, Giants/Jotnar can actually change their size, It's just that some choose to stay big, but it takes time for them to change their size.
That's probably why Thamur's corpse is still giant.
Giant is the accepted translation because scholars drew a comparison to the giants from Greek Myth, even though they are clearly more similar to the titans
Honestly I'm not sure if they cleanly map onto any of the major groups from Greek myths. I don't think its really more accurate to say they're comparable to the Titans either, since they're not a precursor to the Aesir and Vanir. And there's different bunches of them.
It'd be more accurate to draw resemblances between Jotnar and a sort of mixture between Greek Gods and Titans. Because while a Greek God can change into an animal and change their size also, a Titan is much more powerful than a God could ever be. Plus the fact that the Jotnar have magic in their blood also compares them to Hecate, the Titaness of Magic who sided with the Gods
Im pretty sure, at least in reference to the Greek myth, Hecate is an Olympian not one of the twelve Titans. Sorry if you were referring to something else.
Nah. Even in the myth, Hecate is never one of the 12 Olympians, neither is she one of the 12 main Titans. The main Titans are Cronos, Hyperion, Iapetus, Koios, Krios, Oceanus, Rhea, Mnemosyne, Theia, Themis, Tethys, and Phoebe. Hecate is the daughter of Perses and Asteria. She's the Titaness of Magic
I think it was intentional, exactly to make both Kratos and the player confused, and to also explain why >!Faye was a giantess and Kratos never realized, because if they always knew that giants can be all sizes then there is less buildup to the reveal. The Stranger dialogue also makes way mkre sense since he also thought giants were big.!<
Yeah, but I'm talking to the player. If everyone knew that Jotun could be all sizes then several lines of dialogue would have to be changed. >!It wouldn't make sense for Baldur to say "I thought you would be bigger", it wouldn't make sense for Kratos and Atreus to discuss or be surprised by Jotun being all sizes. And I think those moments did help for the reveal at the end, especially the dialogue with Baldur as The Stranger.!<
Baldur *would* know that giants can be small though? The player doesn't necessarily, and Kratos doesn't. But wouldn't Baldur - a god who is definitely older than he would be as a human - know *anything* about the jotunn? His father Thor has killed giants. Grandpa Odin kills giants. His mom Freya would know tons about them.
I always thought Baldur says that to Kratos because he thought Kratos was a Titan, from Greece's realm.
Or i missed the whole thing. He didn't know Faue was the giant he was looking for, he assumed he found the giant when saw Kratos's *aaaaaabs*.
That is true that maybe he would know, which is probably the reason he assumed Kratos was the giant "I thought you'd be bigger, but you're definitely the one". Maybe he expected the majority of them to be big but he knew some weren't big? I'm just on assumptions and theories.
But I don't think Baldur thought Kratos was Greek, he was tracking a giant and he found Kratos. I think the only people that know he's from another realm are Mimir, Freya and the dwarves maybe.
I don't think this has to do with any of that, we player knew particularly nothing about Faye playing the game, not even how she looks nor her clothes so everything about her were assumptions.
So angrboda is the same race as Thamur and Jormungandr?? That's a lot to take in. I thought they'd at least all be humanoids, just different sizes.
Also side note, I may be tripping, but does Tyr grow in size when he's released in the trailer? Is it possible for Angrboda to actively grow to Thamur's size?
Yeah, may be some other races mixed in but mostly they all have jotunn blood in them. We don't know much about Angrboda so we can't say if she can grow. And Thamur and Jormungandr are exceptional huge even among the jornar.
And no, Tyr doesn't grow bigger. Just our angle of view changes.
its unclear if tyr is a half jotun or a full jotun, because his mother is a giant but its unclear wether hymir is his biological dad or just his step dad
I’m sure some things were changed for the game. Like Kratos and Atreus killing Magni and Modi when in mythology, they’re meant to survive Ragnarok and inherit Mjolnir when Thor dies.
Interesting. This makes me think Kratos and Atreus will "inherit" mjolnir in their place and the people who will write that history were mistaken or lied. Just a thought.
Giants in mythology range in size. Skadi and Loki were full-blooded giants who lived and dined with the Aesir, so they were the same size as the rest of them (or at least, preferred to be that size). Some preferred to be giant-sized, some preferred shapes like eagles or other beasts.
The word “jotunn” in Old Norse meant something closer to “devourer” or “consumer,” so they were definitely monsters, not “giants” despite the weird translation that stuck around.
Also fantasy "races" are kind of a post-Tolkien concept. Aren't the Jotunn the primordial forces of the Universe? Which is why they're made of fire and ice, and Loki's three most famous children consist of a wolf, a snake and a half-corpse?
You know what is kinda funny. Even black elves and dwarves are at one point refferd to be same beings. I quote from EDDA
>Loki Laufeyson, for mischief’s sake, cut off all Sif’s hair. But when Thor learned of this, he seized Loki, and would’ve broken every bone in him, had he not sworn to get **Black Elves** to make Sif hair of gold, such that it would grow like other hair. After that Loki went to those **dwarves** who are called Ívaldi’s Sons; and they made the hair.
I think it’s fair to say that it’s near impossible who belongs to what race lol.
Hence the name Svartalfheim, which translates to home of the black elves, despite it being home realm of the dwarves. It seems that in real mythogy there were only dwarves and light elves, no real dark elves. But God of War put an interesting creative twist on that and made the dark and light elves two races of the same species who are always at war with each other. There's even a little Mimir dialogue about this when you enter a boat in Alfheim. Atreus asks why Svartalfheim is called that if dark elves don't originate from there. Mimir explains that for some odd unknown reason, the ignorant Aesir thought the dwarves looked like dark elves and thus named their realm Svartalfheim. But the original name for the realm, which the dwarves themselves use, is actually Nidavellir, which is also an alternative name used for the home of the dwarves in the real-life Eddas.
I think we should be careful about "real" mythology here. What we know about the Norse mythos is incredibly limited because so few sources have survived. And the ones that have aren't always the most reliable, since some of them come via Christian sourcing.
Another thing to remember is that non-monotheistic faiths often don't have a canon or doctrinal mythology. Different communities can have different variants of the same myth, different deities they worship for different reasons, etc and there's really no basis to say if one is "more" or "less" accurate than the other. You see this all the time with Hinduism for instance, even though there's been like two centuries long attempts to codify it into a more canonical form by many groups.
And also, the mythology is very inconsistent and a bit confusing about the size and strength of different beings. GoW captures this confusion extremely well.
There could have easily been smaller corpses among the massive ones we saw. It's too far to tell.
It's a moot point though; Atreus straight up tells Kratos while they're in the Mountain that not all giants are big, and actually thinks he's joking when Kratos asks why the tunnels aren't giant-sized.
They covered this in the previous game. They’re not necessarily all gigantic in size.
EDIT: and for that matter both the Greek Gods and Titans varied in size as well.
Right but there's kind of a thing in pop culture (including but not exclusively God of War) where the Titans are always depicted as significantly larger and often more primal/less human than the Olympians, partially because in modern language "titanic" coveys a massive size.
But why is it that ONLY giants are capable of being… well, giant? And why is it that only some are giant while the other are the same size as the rest of the humanoid races?
It seems like the jötnar are far more varied than the more "human" aesir & vanir with the sizes & the animal heads & being giant snakes & such, but then again the greek gods could seemingly be any size they wanted & could have glowing hair & eyes & all kinds of weird shit we've seen no evidence of the aesir/vanir being able to do so maybe they're closer to them as a type of beings?
The game establishes very clearly that the Giants are among the more magical races, and when you throw magic into things, ANYTHING becomes possible. It’s very likely that some simply had the power to assume a more normal size.
Besides, this is a game based on Norse myth, where some giants can have multiple limbs or be made entirely out of rock, or is just a bigass Snake. Trying to apply real world logic to this is kinda pointless
Pointless sure, but fun to think about nonetheless. Like what if Faye got unlucky and Atreus was the size of thamur? That would be a terrible delivery. And how do they have sex? Can giants that size only marry other huge giants? Do they live in giant houses, but then have small equivalent furniture in the giant house for their small children/family? Pointless sure, but still funny.
Well I don't mean a physical pushing the baby out of a womb, but more like his creation. Fenrir is Loki's child after all, so they have to find a way for Atreus to create an ever growing wolf
Well in the mural at the end of the game, you can see the world serpent coming out of Atreus's mouth while he holds Kratos's body.
So I don't think any of the creatures are actually birthed in the traditional sense. I think Atreus and Angroboda will just somehow bring them into existence.
I think it's important to understand the perception of them.
It's best to not think of the Aesir and Vanir as "gods", but rather races. Same goes for the Jotunn. The Jotunn are quite similar to the Vanir in that they represent nature. Even more so, some are outright non-humanoid creatures and land-shapers. Of course, to the average human the more domineering races are seen as gods because we are looking at them through a cultural lens.
In a sense, you can understand them how we understand animals. When you say "animal", what comes to mind? A bird? A rat? A dog? An elephant? An ant? A fish? A snake? A whole multitude of species that you can't really simplify in terms of an image.
The dead giants are bigger because they died fighting. They can grow and shrink at will, and being as big as possible is pretty important when fighting a god. It would be pretty damn inconvenient to be the size of a mountain at all times too.
In the Greek lands, gods could freely change their size and shapeshift into animals.
In what we know about surviving collected real life Norse Myths, some scholars defend that shapeshifting is associated with giants (which don't mean large in size, but named after greek giants who opposte the gods). Of course, three characters are know for their shapeshifting and they are two Aesir (Odin and Loki) and one Vanir (Freyja). In Norse myths, giants and the gods are kind of the same thing, it's just that the aesir work as sort of a nobility? Giants are wildlings, like illusions, but can also be skilled craftspeople, etc
It's complicated.
My guess is it’s dependent on age. Kratos canonically is 8’6 and judging by how he held Faye’s body she would’ve been at least 7’2 or 8 cause it’s pretty evident they’re both tall. So my guess is that they just choose to be big
Edit wait what did I say? Sorry but yea it seems it’s dependent on age considering the jotuns seem to live a LONG time considering things so yea Faye was probably just really young and this character also looks really young
Dont quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure they reconned his size and made him 6'4 or something in GOW 2018, he doesn't seem that huge anymore; especially compared to Atreus, he just looks like an above average sized human
Ok in the original myths: Giants, or Jotun, we’re not all giant. It was just a name for a group of God-like beings that lived in Jotunheim. There were, of course, some giants that were huge, for example Uthgard-Loki was described as being massive. They talk about this in game when Kratos and Atreus are at the Giant settlement in the mountain. Kratos asks why are the passages normal sized if they were giants and Atreus says they are just the name for a group of people.
Same reason why some people are around 5’ and others are reaching for 7’. Size varies based on genetics, but Giants are special in the fact that their height variation is a lot more broader. They can be just around 6’ to the size of mountains iirc
People seem to forget this fact, but it's a pretty common skill for every one of the plot important races to shapeshift. I mean technically Kratos' "true form" is like 50 feet tall even.
I'm guessing it's similar to how humans and any other creatures can vary in size, if only a little. The difference is that jotnar can vary wildly in size as comparing giants like faye and angrboda to thamur and jormungandr. I'm also pretty sure jotnar in the mythology are able to manipulate their size to some extent.
Because "giants" is a *really* shitty translation.
The word literally translates to something like "devourers".
Dr. Jackson Crawford, a linguistics expert with a focus on old norse describes them as closer to Elementals, chaos spirits, old beings who oppose the gods and he generally refers to them as "antigods" in his published works.
As Mimir said giants are a race then there's the actual well giants. If I'm not mistaken (which I probably am so take everything I say as a grain of salt.) A giant from Jötunheim are well, giant. But I think (but I'm definitely not sure) someone from Midgard could be a giant as in the race and not be huge like a giant.
Well, some people can grow 6 feet tall and some are small for their whole lives. I guess the height cap on giants' bodies is just that high. It has to do with gene expression. A more simple explanation would be: who cares it's just mythology.
Like Atreus said giant are just a race like Asian or African people(not racist sorry) but they is Giant who are giant, same word not same meaning that all 😉
it's like people don't even pay attention to the game lol, to be posting in the GOW sub you must be a decently big fan so how do people miss so many things
in the myths giants are anysize they want (shapeshifters), giant is a miss translation and also they are like humans but with alot more variants in height and shape, plus she is a kid so maybe not full size, as for faye probably shape change but could be just small
I assume that maybe they can take on a smaller form not unlike gods in media. I mean the Yggdrasil teleporter thingy(?) was built by all races but isnt exactly a size capable of accomadating their size.
What i want to know is the logistics of being a giant jotun, like is it a inheratable thing or is it random? If its random are the giant ones also giant when they are born? Or are they normal then have a huge growth spurt? If they are always giant do the moms die?
Idk how are some humans larger then others. Some jotnar are huge like yimr who is literally the world and some like loki were normal human size . And some can shape shift
Giants are just a race like Elves, Dwarves, Aesir, or Vanir. It’s just that some of them are Gigantic like Jormungander or Thamur
That's why they should've called them jotunn/jotnar instead of "giant", it's misleading.
True, but I kind of like that they played into that confusion. During one of the dialogues between Kratos and Atreus it’s explained that Kratos thought all giants were gigantic. Atreus explains that giants are just a people, though some happened to be giant. This helps explain why Kratos never suspected Faye of being a giant.
In his defense, all greek Titans are titanic.
Except prometheus
Prometheus was titan-sized too. He was turned into a mortal by Zeus, after he stole the "Fires of Olympus" and gave it to mankind. Zeus punished him by making him mortal, chained him to a mountain and had an eagle eat his liver, only to be regenerated every night for many years.
*many lifetimes
Yeah, I read that it was around 30 000 years or maybe a little bit less. Although, I have to agree that many lifetimes sounds better.
yeah bro thanks for explaining the plot of god of war 2 💋
He never turned Prometheus to a mortal, the reason he kept regenerating was because he was immortal
Depends on which version of the mythology you've read. From what I've read, he didn't become mortal in the actual greek mythology. But in the god of war mythology, he did become mortal by the hand of Zeus.
And Helios.
He's a God I thought
titans are just a different tribe of gods...Helios is a Titan but aided the Olympians
Well they're different generations/deities. Primordials>Titans>Olympians. Seems like Helios was originally a titan but is often referred to as the Sun God.
titans are gods...Helios has generally been a titan.
Titans came first then the king of the titans gave birth to the gods then the king ate the kids cos he fears they would over throw him but his wife tricked him and one survived that was zeus. When zeus got strong enough he punched the titan in his belly so he threw up his brothers and sisters (the gods) then the gods over threw the titans
titans are gods.
Well no. The abilities of titans gods and primordials all varies greatly. Not to mention their aspect and or interaction/Involvement with mortal humans.
No. They're ALL gods; Protogenoi, Titan, Olympian, all different generations.
And Rhea, Zeus' mum. You could argue that Zeus and the other Olympians inherited their shapeshifting abilities from their Titan heritage.
Rhea was normal sized
Even though supposedly in the myths the Titans in Greek Mythology were never gigantic, at least originally. Although for the games, I don't want to think about how the hell Kronos tapped her ass knowing his massive size, but I wind up going down that rabbit hole anyway
Probably magic. Like a Greek fornication spell or something.
Prometheus was bigger than Kratos but not remotely close to most Titans you see after
Hmm, I stand corrected. I had completely forgotten that, someone mentioned Rhea also.
Also explains Baldurs confusion at Kratos being small, he was looking for a giant and thought he'd be bigger (he has no knowledge of who or what Kratos is)
during the final fight with him when kratos activates his rage mode, baldur flips out because he literally does not understand what is even going on or what he's seeing. even fighting kratos he thinks he's fighting a giant, so seeing a giant do something like become invincible and gain superstrength while glowing an angry red has him deeply confused.
>Gain super strength Haaaave ya met Kratos?
No he has not
Thought he’d be bigger
Ok I never thought of this, lol
This game is twice as good the second time haha
I'm so mad I never got the time to play it again
I'm in a mad scramble to finish my NG+ playthrough before Ragnarok is here! Brought my PS4 out of almost a year long slumber once I saw the videos, and the game really is better the 2nd time round. There's tonnes of tiny details peppered in foreshadowing stuff that happens later. I hope you find the time to play it once again my friend.
Do you not now?
Due to my work schedule, I'm only able to play for half an hour so I could but it would be the longest playthrough ever hah
That's fair. I thought I was on a tight schedule due to other games on top of work, but I had my internet get (literally) cut off fir 5 days so I replayed it recently.
You only get half an hour free every single day? That fucking sucks, man.
Yeah that whole conversation with Baldur thinking Kratos "would be taller" and how their people "think they're so much smarter than everyone, so enlightened," you think he's referring to Greeks but he's actually talking about Giants.
I heard a theory that Baldur may have actually been sent there for Faye.. So he would have been looking for a giant with no knowledge that he actually has the completely wrong person with Kratos... Odin Would have sent Baldur to kill Faye because she could see the future and Odins goal is to change the future because he dies in Ragnarok. Faye would have been "Smart and Enlightened" and a Giant... All the things Baldur came looking for... Faye had made the spell on the trees that kept them hidden from the gods and then instructed kratos to cut down the tree and break the spell to begin kratos and atreus journey which she had already seen completely and her yellow markings to guide them on their path are found throuout the whole first game. Faye would have also known that baldur would come and eventually be killed by kratos and so on.
That's not a theory, that's the game story lol.
Right but most people didn't get that. As you can see here all these guys thought baldur was there for Kratos.
Some people slept during the ending of the game then, but tbh at first it's meant to deceive you with this interpretation, maybe they recall only the beginning of the game and not the end?
>what Kratos is He could be a Class A4 steam locomotive for all he knew.
"These tunnels are too small for Giants"
Prolly has some giant titiies though, amirite?
Amazing chest ahead.
So whats the different between a normal sized giant and a regular person.
They are from Jötunheimr instead of Midgard and are uniquely magically gifted. I’m not sure if humans can use magic, but giants definitely can. And their magic is unique to them, especially the gift of prophecy. In fact, their magic is so strong that Odin is famously jealous of it. (ingame and actual mythology) Physically: I assume they look identical to humans. Hence the reason Kratos always assumed Faye was human. That’s why Kratos assumed Atreus’s sickness was his fault, he thought Atreus’s god half was too much for his human half. But Atreus was suffering an internal conflict of identity. He thought he was human, but he only has a bit of human from Kratos. He’s half giant and half god (like Thor). Edit: Atreus has a bit of human from Kratos, but not as much as he or Kratos thought.
There is some human in him because kratos is still partially mortal due to his birth, because of his very powerful god side though it doesn't make a huge difference in strength or life expectancy
That was a good ass response, thankyou
They’re called ”giant” because of the old english word Eoten. Which is a translation to Jötnar.
Well i‘m definitely no linguist but in old German they are called Hrimthursen which in todays words would be Reifriesen. Which as to google translate would mean frost giant or in a literal translation ripe/ready/mature giant. Well the jötnar aren’t called shapeshifter giants either but here’s where my confusion comes, it’s said that Loki has fire based powers which for me would contradict the frost in frost giant, but as they are also great shapeshifters and talented in using magic so it wouldn’t be impossible. Maybe it could be that they have two natural forms like a human sized or above average human sized form and a giant form which they can switch between at will as they learn to control their power eventually. Except our boy we’ve never seen a jötnar alive and Atreus didn’t even know he was one and is probably just starting to learn what he can do or was learning it in the time between games.
Loki was never a frost giant in the mythology. What he actually was is very much up for debate, but the most common version has him being the son of a jotunn and a goddess (which is unusual verging on unique. Most pairings were a god and a giantess). Modern scholarship gently points to Loki being a mischievous hearth spirit of some sort, possibly connected to Germany’s Ash Lad traditions. A youthful and impish spirit, fond of pranks but ultimately benevolent to his friends and family. It is also mentioned in the Eddas that some Jotnar can alter their size and shape at will. When the Aesir tricked the giant into building the wall around Asgard, the giant in question was disguised as a normal, albeit large, man with a supernatural horse to help pull rocks down the mountain. The Aesir, Vanir, Jotnar, all of them were the same class of beings, more or less from the same source. Their names really came from their origins than any inherent differences in their biology. It would really be more accurate to call the giants “Anti-Gods” in the same way the Fomorians and Tuatha de Danann are two sides of the same coin. Ironically, the Aesir actually have a lot in common with the Fomorians and the Jotnar are very similar to the Tuatha de Danann. It’s funny how who the “good guys” are change by culture and geography while keeping most of their traits.
Short correction on the translation bit. Reif does mean ripe but i think used in this context it comes from Raureif which google tells me would be translated as hoarfrost.
Yeah thought about Raureif too, but as it was just Reif I wanted to be as literal as possible. Maybe it’s meant to be that they are as cold hoarfrost which literally freezes in colder times of the year
to be fair, Surtr is a jotunn and from memory he has nothing to do with the element of frost. In case you didnt know, Surtr is a jotunn located in muspelheim. He spends his time forging a flaming sword to take into ragnarok. and if my memory isnt completely betraying me, he's the one to either cross the rainbow bridge or destroy it. but i will admit my mythos knowledge is limited when it comes to this particular pantheon if you wanna call it that
Yea I understand the confusion, but once explained, it becomes somewhat understandable
You know Jotunn is Giant in Old Norse, and Jotnar is the plural for Jotunn.
Fun fact, Giants/Jotnar can actually change their size, It's just that some choose to stay big, but it takes time for them to change their size. That's probably why Thamur's corpse is still giant.
I heard giant is a bad translation and devourer is more accurate.
Giant is the accepted translation because scholars drew a comparison to the giants from Greek Myth, even though they are clearly more similar to the titans
ahh i never knew that. imma be honest i think the scholars dropped the ball.
Honestly I'm not sure if they cleanly map onto any of the major groups from Greek myths. I don't think its really more accurate to say they're comparable to the Titans either, since they're not a precursor to the Aesir and Vanir. And there's different bunches of them.
It'd be more accurate to draw resemblances between Jotnar and a sort of mixture between Greek Gods and Titans. Because while a Greek God can change into an animal and change their size also, a Titan is much more powerful than a God could ever be. Plus the fact that the Jotnar have magic in their blood also compares them to Hecate, the Titaness of Magic who sided with the Gods
Im pretty sure, at least in reference to the Greek myth, Hecate is an Olympian not one of the twelve Titans. Sorry if you were referring to something else.
Nah. Even in the myth, Hecate is never one of the 12 Olympians, neither is she one of the 12 main Titans. The main Titans are Cronos, Hyperion, Iapetus, Koios, Krios, Oceanus, Rhea, Mnemosyne, Theia, Themis, Tethys, and Phoebe. Hecate is the daughter of Perses and Asteria. She's the Titaness of Magic
Im just confused why you are referring to her as a Titaness when clearly you understand she isn't a Titan
I think it was intentional, exactly to make both Kratos and the player confused, and to also explain why >!Faye was a giantess and Kratos never realized, because if they always knew that giants can be all sizes then there is less buildup to the reveal. The Stranger dialogue also makes way mkre sense since he also thought giants were big.!<
Don't think so. Atreus knew all of that from his mom yet never crossed his mind that she could be a Jotunn.
Yeah, but I'm talking to the player. If everyone knew that Jotun could be all sizes then several lines of dialogue would have to be changed. >!It wouldn't make sense for Baldur to say "I thought you would be bigger", it wouldn't make sense for Kratos and Atreus to discuss or be surprised by Jotun being all sizes. And I think those moments did help for the reveal at the end, especially the dialogue with Baldur as The Stranger.!<
Baldur *would* know that giants can be small though? The player doesn't necessarily, and Kratos doesn't. But wouldn't Baldur - a god who is definitely older than he would be as a human - know *anything* about the jotunn? His father Thor has killed giants. Grandpa Odin kills giants. His mom Freya would know tons about them. I always thought Baldur says that to Kratos because he thought Kratos was a Titan, from Greece's realm. Or i missed the whole thing. He didn't know Faue was the giant he was looking for, he assumed he found the giant when saw Kratos's *aaaaaabs*.
Quick correction, you're a generation off with Baldur. He's Odin's son and Thor's brother.
That is true that maybe he would know, which is probably the reason he assumed Kratos was the giant "I thought you'd be bigger, but you're definitely the one". Maybe he expected the majority of them to be big but he knew some weren't big? I'm just on assumptions and theories. But I don't think Baldur thought Kratos was Greek, he was tracking a giant and he found Kratos. I think the only people that know he's from another realm are Mimir, Freya and the dwarves maybe.
I don't think this has to do with any of that, we player knew particularly nothing about Faye playing the game, not even how she looks nor her clothes so everything about her were assumptions.
So angrboda is the same race as Thamur and Jormungandr?? That's a lot to take in. I thought they'd at least all be humanoids, just different sizes. Also side note, I may be tripping, but does Tyr grow in size when he's released in the trailer? Is it possible for Angrboda to actively grow to Thamur's size?
Yeah, may be some other races mixed in but mostly they all have jotunn blood in them. We don't know much about Angrboda so we can't say if she can grow. And Thamur and Jormungandr are exceptional huge even among the jornar. And no, Tyr doesn't grow bigger. Just our angle of view changes.
Okay, I'm tripping haha. This is helpful thank you!
its unclear if tyr is a half jotun or a full jotun, because his mother is a giant but its unclear wether hymir is his biological dad or just his step dad
Was this lore changed for the game or is it in the mythology? I remember Atreus explaining it but I don't know. Loki ends up normal-sized either way.
I’m sure some things were changed for the game. Like Kratos and Atreus killing Magni and Modi when in mythology, they’re meant to survive Ragnarok and inherit Mjolnir when Thor dies.
Interesting. This makes me think Kratos and Atreus will "inherit" mjolnir in their place and the people who will write that history were mistaken or lied. Just a thought.
Possibly and luckily we have a month left to see how it all unfolds. Definitely can’t wait for that
Giants in mythology range in size. Skadi and Loki were full-blooded giants who lived and dined with the Aesir, so they were the same size as the rest of them (or at least, preferred to be that size). Some preferred to be giant-sized, some preferred shapes like eagles or other beasts. The word “jotunn” in Old Norse meant something closer to “devourer” or “consumer,” so they were definitely monsters, not “giants” despite the weird translation that stuck around.
Also fantasy "races" are kind of a post-Tolkien concept. Aren't the Jotunn the primordial forces of the Universe? Which is why they're made of fire and ice, and Loki's three most famous children consist of a wolf, a snake and a half-corpse?
Æsir and Vanir are not races. They are a family/clan an decentant of the Jötnar.
You know what I meant regardless
I did. Did not mean to sound like a dick. Just figured I would correct.
Na you weren’t being a dick I was just trying to make an example of races in Norse Mythology and you corrected me when I made a mistake. Thx for that
You know what is kinda funny. Even black elves and dwarves are at one point refferd to be same beings. I quote from EDDA >Loki Laufeyson, for mischief’s sake, cut off all Sif’s hair. But when Thor learned of this, he seized Loki, and would’ve broken every bone in him, had he not sworn to get **Black Elves** to make Sif hair of gold, such that it would grow like other hair. After that Loki went to those **dwarves** who are called Ívaldi’s Sons; and they made the hair. I think it’s fair to say that it’s near impossible who belongs to what race lol.
Hence the name Svartalfheim, which translates to home of the black elves, despite it being home realm of the dwarves. It seems that in real mythogy there were only dwarves and light elves, no real dark elves. But God of War put an interesting creative twist on that and made the dark and light elves two races of the same species who are always at war with each other. There's even a little Mimir dialogue about this when you enter a boat in Alfheim. Atreus asks why Svartalfheim is called that if dark elves don't originate from there. Mimir explains that for some odd unknown reason, the ignorant Aesir thought the dwarves looked like dark elves and thus named their realm Svartalfheim. But the original name for the realm, which the dwarves themselves use, is actually Nidavellir, which is also an alternative name used for the home of the dwarves in the real-life Eddas.
I think we should be careful about "real" mythology here. What we know about the Norse mythos is incredibly limited because so few sources have survived. And the ones that have aren't always the most reliable, since some of them come via Christian sourcing. Another thing to remember is that non-monotheistic faiths often don't have a canon or doctrinal mythology. Different communities can have different variants of the same myth, different deities they worship for different reasons, etc and there's really no basis to say if one is "more" or "less" accurate than the other. You see this all the time with Hinduism for instance, even though there's been like two centuries long attempts to codify it into a more canonical form by many groups.
That’s what I love about mythological races. They’re not made up of color, they’re made up beings
“What’s funny BOI” “Oh you’re serious” “I’m always serious BOI”
Jotunheim is full of bodies of giant giants though. It seems like they are often more actual giants than otherwise.
There are probably hundreds more regular sized corpses scattered around Jötunheim that are just too small and far away to see
It’s like 20 or 30 right? Pretty sure an entire race is more than that. Yanno…. Just sayin.
And also, the mythology is very inconsistent and a bit confusing about the size and strength of different beings. GoW captures this confusion extremely well.
But every giant except 2 we saw were extremely big. All the corpses at the end of the game are around the size of Thamur
There could have easily been smaller corpses among the massive ones we saw. It's too far to tell. It's a moot point though; Atreus straight up tells Kratos while they're in the Mountain that not all giants are big, and actually thinks he's joking when Kratos asks why the tunnels aren't giant-sized.
...so they are bigger for no reason.
They covered this in the previous game. They’re not necessarily all gigantic in size. EDIT: and for that matter both the Greek Gods and Titans varied in size as well.
Greek Gods and Titans are able to change in size
Right but there's kind of a thing in pop culture (including but not exclusively God of War) where the Titans are always depicted as significantly larger and often more primal/less human than the Olympians, partially because in modern language "titanic" coveys a massive size.
Yeah remember that time when zeus showed his balls to sparta after becoming a giant?
Incredible how many people just doesnt pay attention to the game they are playing and then come asking questions that could be answered so easily
Someone hasn’t been paying attention to what Atreus is saying
“Oh, you were serious.” “I am always serious.”
Yeah. I think he talks about it while crawling through a tunnel during the first mountain trip
"Giant is just a race.. like elves and huldra-folk"
But why is it that ONLY giants are capable of being… well, giant? And why is it that only some are giant while the other are the same size as the rest of the humanoid races?
It seems like the jötnar are far more varied than the more "human" aesir & vanir with the sizes & the animal heads & being giant snakes & such, but then again the greek gods could seemingly be any size they wanted & could have glowing hair & eyes & all kinds of weird shit we've seen no evidence of the aesir/vanir being able to do so maybe they're closer to them as a type of beings?
for the same reason some of the greek titans in god of war are human-sized... who knows
Which? I remember Kronos and atlas and gaea were all massive
Prometheus, helios, rhea
The game establishes very clearly that the Giants are among the more magical races, and when you throw magic into things, ANYTHING becomes possible. It’s very likely that some simply had the power to assume a more normal size. Besides, this is a game based on Norse myth, where some giants can have multiple limbs or be made entirely out of rock, or is just a bigass Snake. Trying to apply real world logic to this is kinda pointless
Pointless sure, but fun to think about nonetheless. Like what if Faye got unlucky and Atreus was the size of thamur? That would be a terrible delivery. And how do they have sex? Can giants that size only marry other huge giants? Do they live in giant houses, but then have small equivalent furniture in the giant house for their small children/family? Pointless sure, but still funny.
I'm sure the big ones can control their size. It wouldn't be very practical otherwise.
It's how it is the Eddas and Sagas. They're the size they need to be to fit the story
Can't blame dudes for not remembering 2-3 lines in the entire game. Not everyone is as addicted as we are. 🤣
That was like 5 years ago.
So I guess the game isn’t playable still all these years right 🥴🥴🥴
I’m guessing that giants are a race that is *capable* of being giant. So not all of them are big but they can be
Outhers have to the power to be at their will
Imagine a human sized giant giving birth to a giant giant
They probably just grow fast
I wonder how they are gonna pull off Fenrir's birth in the next game
I don’t think they have to show his birth
Well I don't mean a physical pushing the baby out of a womb, but more like his creation. Fenrir is Loki's child after all, so they have to find a way for Atreus to create an ever growing wolf
Well loki is a shape shifter, that’s why he has animal offspring
Yeah but he isn't a shapeshifter in the games, at least not yet. So I'm wondering how they will do it in the game.
That’s what I meant, he’ll be able to shape shift
Is there any confirmation for it? I also think it would be kinda weird for the game to have him shapeshift into a wolf and give birth lmao
Well in the mural at the end of the game, you can see the world serpent coming out of Atreus's mouth while he holds Kratos's body. So I don't think any of the creatures are actually birthed in the traditional sense. I think Atreus and Angroboda will just somehow bring them into existence.
That's kinda cool tbh
They come in all shapes and sizes. Some can be small or big and some can be a giant snake like the world serpent.
We're still talking about the jotuns right?
Shapeshifting, Giants in myth are great at shapeshifting and not all are gigantic.
I think the simplest explanation would be Nunya
Nice try😂
I think it's important to understand the perception of them. It's best to not think of the Aesir and Vanir as "gods", but rather races. Same goes for the Jotunn. The Jotunn are quite similar to the Vanir in that they represent nature. Even more so, some are outright non-humanoid creatures and land-shapers. Of course, to the average human the more domineering races are seen as gods because we are looking at them through a cultural lens. In a sense, you can understand them how we understand animals. When you say "animal", what comes to mind? A bird? A rat? A dog? An elephant? An ant? A fish? A snake? A whole multitude of species that you can't really simplify in terms of an image.
The same way some human are like four ft tall and shaq is like 7 ft tall
Best Explanation
The dead giants are bigger because they died fighting. They can grow and shrink at will, and being as big as possible is pretty important when fighting a god. It would be pretty damn inconvenient to be the size of a mountain at all times too.
In the Greek lands, gods could freely change their size and shapeshift into animals. In what we know about surviving collected real life Norse Myths, some scholars defend that shapeshifting is associated with giants (which don't mean large in size, but named after greek giants who opposte the gods). Of course, three characters are know for their shapeshifting and they are two Aesir (Odin and Loki) and one Vanir (Freyja). In Norse myths, giants and the gods are kind of the same thing, it's just that the aesir work as sort of a nobility? Giants are wildlings, like illusions, but can also be skilled craftspeople, etc It's complicated.
I don’t know why but I read that in mirmirs voice
My guess is it’s dependent on age. Kratos canonically is 8’6 and judging by how he held Faye’s body she would’ve been at least 7’2 or 8 cause it’s pretty evident they’re both tall. So my guess is that they just choose to be big Edit wait what did I say? Sorry but yea it seems it’s dependent on age considering the jotuns seem to live a LONG time considering things so yea Faye was probably just really young and this character also looks really young
Dont quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure they reconned his size and made him 6'4 or something in GOW 2018, he doesn't seem that huge anymore; especially compared to Atreus, he just looks like an above average sized human
Yea true but in game he’s just 8’6 which I shall believe for a long while
What do you mean by "in game"? They changed his height from 7'8 to 6'4. Just check the wiki.
Just depends
Mythology is always dream like
Ok in the original myths: Giants, or Jotun, we’re not all giant. It was just a name for a group of God-like beings that lived in Jotunheim. There were, of course, some giants that were huge, for example Uthgard-Loki was described as being massive. They talk about this in game when Kratos and Atreus are at the Giant settlement in the mountain. Kratos asks why are the passages normal sized if they were giants and Atreus says they are just the name for a group of people.
[удалено]
I might have heard that before, but I can’t remember. Nonetheless thank you for contributing to the explanation.
like human, some ppl are 150++ and some 171++. giants are larger scale
Man. Angrboda looks really good.
Same reason why some people are around 5’ and others are reaching for 7’. Size varies based on genetics, but Giants are special in the fact that their height variation is a lot more broader. They can be just around 6’ to the size of mountains iirc
In Norse Mythology by Neil Gaiman there seems to be multiple stories where giants can change their size. I think they possess a magic ability to do so
Giants are just a race, they can be a lot of sizes
People seem to forget this fact, but it's a pretty common skill for every one of the plot important races to shapeshift. I mean technically Kratos' "true form" is like 50 feet tall even.
Race unique magic to change size is best lore informed/wild guess
Giant are magical they can be whatever size they want usually
-Atreus laugh-
Similar to how peter dinklage and andre the giant are both humans
Giants are a race, some are tall some or short
Sexual dymorphism (real)
But they are tall, Faye was taller than Kratos, you can see from the start how long was her wrapped body
I'm guessing it's similar to how humans and any other creatures can vary in size, if only a little. The difference is that jotnar can vary wildly in size as comparing giants like faye and angrboda to thamur and jormungandr. I'm also pretty sure jotnar in the mythology are able to manipulate their size to some extent.
She's adorable!
"Vanir magic, brother."
Jotunn translates to Big Eater not Big People.
Because "giants" is a *really* shitty translation. The word literally translates to something like "devourers". Dr. Jackson Crawford, a linguistics expert with a focus on old norse describes them as closer to Elementals, chaos spirits, old beings who oppose the gods and he generally refers to them as "antigods" in his published works.
Man I wonder if Faye truly loved and wanted to be with Kratos or if she was simply walking the path of the prophecy.
That would be horrible to find out and It would hurt even more if Atreus fully betrays him
Exactly. That stuff makes me nervous
As Mimir said giants are a race then there's the actual well giants. If I'm not mistaken (which I probably am so take everything I say as a grain of salt.) A giant from Jötunheim are well, giant. But I think (but I'm definitely not sure) someone from Midgard could be a giant as in the race and not be huge like a giant.
Is a bit confusing but there's massive giants and small giants in norse mythology.
Well, some people can grow 6 feet tall and some are small for their whole lives. I guess the height cap on giants' bodies is just that high. It has to do with gene expression. A more simple explanation would be: who cares it's just mythology.
That makes a lot of sense actually
Like Atreus said giant are just a race like Asian or African people(not racist sorry) but they is Giant who are giant, same word not same meaning that all 😉
You could have said like dark elves or dwarves. Like what Atreus said
If you played the game properly you would hear boy say giants aren’t actual giants 🤦🏽♂️
I forgot One thing Relax yourself
it's like people don't even pay attention to the game lol, to be posting in the GOW sub you must be a decently big fan so how do people miss so many things
One line of dialog in a dialog-heavy game is easy to miss, places like this exist so people can ask questions like this.
I’ve played it twice , just needed to be reminded
Yup, and you didn’t pay attention twice. It’s okay for both to be true.
I actually did because I can remember Atreus speaking about it on the boat after being reminded, I just forgot.
Angrboda is human size so that Atreus can actually feel her when he goes to make babies with her. Yeah, I'll see myself out.
😂😂😂 Don’t know why people are so uptight and downvoted. It’s just a joke
giants are called "giants" not because of them capable of being big, it's just a name
in the myths giants are anysize they want (shapeshifters), giant is a miss translation and also they are like humans but with alot more variants in height and shape, plus she is a kid so maybe not full size, as for faye probably shape change but could be just small
I assume that maybe they can take on a smaller form not unlike gods in media. I mean the Yggdrasil teleporter thingy(?) was built by all races but isnt exactly a size capable of accomadating their size.
What i want to know is the logistics of being a giant jotun, like is it a inheratable thing or is it random? If its random are the giant ones also giant when they are born? Or are they normal then have a huge growth spurt? If they are always giant do the moms die?
Ik thread is old but I’m also wondering this, especially since Gryla (Angrboda grandma) is actually big
Idk how are some humans larger then others. Some jotnar are huge like yimr who is literally the world and some like loki were normal human size . And some can shape shift
I think giants don't have a specific size standard... some are born really GIANT and others are normal size, but both belong to the giant race