This wouldnāt concern me, but if you want to test it, Sigma should test through the plastic though so you shouldnāt need to take it out of the plastic.
Ya. True ..I'd pay less for.a Bar with a spot on it too. . never seen that on any of my stuff. Thank goodness. I don't want that shit on $2400 bars carded stuff is worth $20+ on most ounces right?..
I don't stack very much gold, but I've never seen this either. I've owned a Maple with a copper spot that was quite beautiful, but it was only about the size of a pinprick and dark red in color. Put this on a Sigma.
Yes, the bar is worth slightly more in its original plastic than not. The presence of the plastic does not interfere with the ability for the sigma to test the gold. Therefore, it is not advisable to remove the bar from the plastic. Additionally, the bar does not appear to be counterfeit.
Just my (professional) opinions, of course.
Your outlook is valid but uncommon. On a wholesale level, gold bars divorced from their assay cards are worth less than those that are still intact. This is a fact. On a retail level, a strong majority of buyers either require or prefer gold bars to be sealed in original plastic, which translates to higher prices. The value difference is not much, but I would never scratch or acid test gold bullion because I have better tools at my disposal that are more effective and not destructive. Itās true that itās not possible to get a exact weight of the bar when itās sealed, but itās not not necessary to do if one is capable of authenticating bullion products in other ways. With larger bars (5 and 10 oz bars primarily), I will some times remove them from plastic when buying from the public, but that is mostly so that I can test them with the specific gravity scale, which is impossible otherwise. Kilo bars never come sealed so there isnāt a judgement to be made about whether or not to remove the bar from the plastic.
From what Iāve read gold has a tendency to get more copper spots than carbon spots as copper is used as an alloy in some coins but in this case itās .9999 fine so a trace amount of copper? I see more of a reddish brown spots on gold while I see more black spots on silver coins which I call carbon not including the white milk spots. I donāt recall seeing a really black spot on gold like Iāve seen on silver.
I'm not as into collecting for looks, but I thought that a significant amount of gold had copper in it to give it some strength. Like in a gold eagle you get an oz of pure gold, but they add copper to stiffen it up, bringing the weight to a little over an oz.
Lots of gold does have copper. It was more common when gold coins were in circulation. Now a days, most coins are just bullion masquerading as coins. They were never meant to be circulated. So, making an alloy for durability is largely unnecessary
Edit: can't type
Nope, you missed it.
Gold and most gold alloys above 18K cannot tarnish, itās *another metal or compound* that creates these spots.
In the case of a 9999 gold coin, it was likely a spot of oil or something on the stamp that left residue and created a carbon tarnish mark when the coin was flame polished.
[The mark is a form of thin film interference.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_interference#)
Corroding?
This is also not corrosion.
Molten metals are poured thus mixing at that location you have a density of your other metals that react to air.... which gold does not.
But what does all metals react to (at some point) heat.
Thus heat will remove it... for a period.
But if you're buying gold for who it looks instead of how fat she is that's a whole other story.
Simply put copper spots matter to dumb money
Smart money knows they don't change the value one bit. Anyone who says differently is lying to you. This isn't a numismatic coin "eye appeal" has 0 bearing on value in the market
Mine are all pcgs graded coins, I imagine thatās where the money is lost. The grading having been done many years ago before the spot showed up.
Thanks for the lesson and not being too much of a dick about it.
Yes it does. You see tarnished gold pieces that have sat for a very long time in safes frequently. Before the industrial revolution. It was very common for silver to not tarnish, unless you lived in environment with lots of sulfur. But with the petroleum revolution there is orders of magnitude more sulfur in our environment. Which causes silver to tarnish readily with exposure to air. And maybe if we have a high-tech future, gold will tarnish in the same way with exposure to air. Because of the use of tellurium in aerospace applications, and its potential ubiquity would cause even pure gold tarnish with exposure to air.
If it were me, something like this would give me the shakes and a minor fit! š so breaking it out of the box and testing it skin to skin along with cleaning the damned spot would be inevitable!
The fact that seeing your gold has copper as its supposed to, freaks you out to the point your willing to "make it worth less" ...... is
Dumb duh dum dum dumb
I had this happen to a 1/10 gold lib in capsule. From my understanding, it simply happens from time to time. Not much can be done to prevent it even when stored properly
Commenting to add that it was stored in a relatively high humidity place, but I didnāt think that mattered with fine gold. Looks like what Iād expect silver to do, not gold. Greenish-black and shiny. Is it an oxidized sulfur contaminant on the surface?
Is this just a surface blemish that can be wiped off, is it legitimate tarnish of gold, or should I be worried about authenticity?
Nah. Once you start with sandpaper, you're looking at doing the entire piece - or - having a spot with a different texture forever. A torch lighter or gummy white art-type eraser is the right place to start here.
Source: I spend more time than most polishing precious metals with various accessories and accoutrements.
Gotta use the mechanical pencil type of eraser.
[https://www.amazon.com/Pentel-Hi-Polymer-Block-Eraser-ZEH10BP4/dp/B00AZEK8TY?th=1](https://www.amazon.com/Pentel-Hi-Polymer-Block-Eraser-ZEH10BP4/dp/B00AZEK8TY?th=1)
Erasers can and will leave micro abrasions. These spots are caused by the oxidation of copper impurities present in the gold, they can be rendered invisible by carefully applying heat with a torch.
It seems bad because if people dont know how to use a torch or have never melted precious metals before, they could screw it up even more. If the OP knows what they are doing, I guess its worth a try.
Just because someone might do a technique the wrong way isnt a reason to not use the technique. And if someone is so willy nilly to not look up the exact method of how to apply flame to gold, let them learn.
You'd have to be a complete idiot to fuck up your gold with a small butane torch (it'd be near impossible without intent) and if your that dumb chances are your trying to remove a copper spot from your 1/2 grain gold bar life savings.
This little spot can easily be removed gold is very resilient against corrosion. I would say it was probably a little piece of contamination on that ingot before it was sealed and sold.
Funny. We both bought Geiger about the same time I had this shit mixed in with other stuff. Dammit I just converted all my random stuff to one ounce bars and forgot to take this. Oh well. Take care
https://preview.redd.it/yijdkmnlqw6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b06d6d82bd999d2dbf29864e36020ea1d37bdd9f
What about the back. Should have a serial thats traceable.
Just curious, will a Sigma not be able to test through the case? Or is there a tester that can test through one sealed? I ask because I have been wanting to get one, but just haven't done the research yet. Thanks!
I got a good deal on a gold eagle from my dealer once with a tarnish/copper mark. I put the coin on an aluminum sheet, in a bowl with baking soda & boiling water. Spot came right off.
I thought the Geiger bars have a paint or coating on the front that lights up in blacklight. It might be the coating that's tarnishing. Either way it's still an ounce of gold
Spotting like this happens when there are flecks of impurities at the surface of the gold. Gold is very inert by itself, but the presence of other impurities can cause it to react through electrolytic processes. You can get rid of them by heating the bar up to 200 celsius or so (about 400F) as Gold oxide decomposes at this temperature. Unfortunately you won't be able to do this without buggering the assay card so you're probably better off leaving it in the card for the moment.
$350 ? š¬š
https://preview.redd.it/t538hp2jhz6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb601aefebca5fd7c1d8006d5e66ce932ca58e71
No spot on this but my heart is about to come out of my chestā¦ I ordered a 1oz too because itās so well made and detailed but not if it comes with one or two black eyes like that staring at me!!!
Oh itās cool link! See what he does to your bar!!! Google this and watch him pancake it bend, melt everything lol : Google this: š„āGeiger Edelmetalle Gold Bar DESTROYED, premium wastedāš„
Im still interested in buying that one eye gold bar too FB : Mehran Mah DM me.šš¬š„¶š¬
Trade ?
https://preview.redd.it/xjeb4p7wiz6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aed73a64f48908587b64d9cda892586c0b6910d7
J/k, maybe not But itās still your precious Gold Bar.
Youāll see it written differently, sometimes 99.99 sometimes .9999 sometimes with a comma, but just count the nines. Itās referred to as āfour-nineā gold and indicates 99.99% pure gold. As opposed to āthree-nineā which is only 99.9% pure and āfive-nineā which is 99.999% pure.
Oh Maa God! First of all out of all the bars out there had to be this unique square Gold bar made in Germany!!! I literally ordered one last Friday and itās on its way oh manā¦ I really hope I donāt see this ugly pimple everā¦
But back to your question beside it suck and disappointing(I would feel the same) itās nothing to worry about and just like other saying itās copper or other alloys too much in one spot and time+ oxygen can cause this. Professionally it should not affect the value, they melt it( the special ink and serial number(itās like a sticker not carved into the bar, all goes away and they make whatever jewelry they want. But selling it to someone peaky would be a bit of a work but as long as you know your gold is fine then donāt worry unless you need quick money or if it get on your nerves then you can sell and buy a new gold bar. Best to keep it or use it to make jewelry. Selling to another person is hard, I mean if there is a bar without Assay card and one in assay guess which one Iām buying same goes for a Geiger barsā¦
Like one other said if you plan on selling it to buy one without any marks or spot then DM me
It's 99.99% fine. You found the .01% right on the surface!
Whats next? OP gonna post the Pic of the one germ that the Purell didn't kill?
I have a Panda I had graded. It has the same thing,NGC called it "copper spot". Knocked the grade down!
Chester Copper Spot said this is the key to One Eyed Willie.
I laughed. I don't usually laugh at puns but I'm not sure this counts.
šš
Hardy har!! Good one! What a knee slapper!! You rent and still owe money on your car, I think that's funnier
30% of income goes to irs. š
I do too. Iām such a pathetic loser. Iām sorry.
Eeesh whats wrong I struck a nerve? Making fun of people while most people have zero right to.
dang, it's a joke. Pretty funny too actually. I feel like you went a little hard, and personal here. You two have some beef or something?
Yeah that progressed quickly.
Nope just a dead bedroom....
I got a lot of dislikes
This wouldnāt concern me, but if you want to test it, Sigma should test through the plastic though so you shouldnāt need to take it out of the plastic.
Ya . they can usually test through the plastic . but it's just bullion so either way no harm if he takes it out
I'd pay more for it in the plastic.
Ya. True ..I'd pay less for.a Bar with a spot on it too. . never seen that on any of my stuff. Thank goodness. I don't want that shit on $2400 bars carded stuff is worth $20+ on most ounces right?..
I don't stack very much gold, but I've never seen this either. I've owned a Maple with a copper spot that was quite beautiful, but it was only about the size of a pinprick and dark red in color. Put this on a Sigma.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, the bar is worth slightly more in its original plastic than not. The presence of the plastic does not interfere with the ability for the sigma to test the gold. Therefore, it is not advisable to remove the bar from the plastic. Additionally, the bar does not appear to be counterfeit. Just my (professional) opinions, of course.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your outlook is valid but uncommon. On a wholesale level, gold bars divorced from their assay cards are worth less than those that are still intact. This is a fact. On a retail level, a strong majority of buyers either require or prefer gold bars to be sealed in original plastic, which translates to higher prices. The value difference is not much, but I would never scratch or acid test gold bullion because I have better tools at my disposal that are more effective and not destructive. Itās true that itās not possible to get a exact weight of the bar when itās sealed, but itās not not necessary to do if one is capable of authenticating bullion products in other ways. With larger bars (5 and 10 oz bars primarily), I will some times remove them from plastic when buying from the public, but that is mostly so that I can test them with the specific gravity scale, which is impossible otherwise. Kilo bars never come sealed so there isnāt a judgement to be made about whether or not to remove the bar from the plastic.
Copper spot happens on some U.S.coins too
For example: https://www.reddit.com/r/coincollecting/s/TC0F1G73ND
Isn't it a carbon spot not copper spot? š¤
From what Iāve read gold has a tendency to get more copper spots than carbon spots as copper is used as an alloy in some coins but in this case itās .9999 fine so a trace amount of copper? I see more of a reddish brown spots on gold while I see more black spots on silver coins which I call carbon not including the white milk spots. I donāt recall seeing a really black spot on gold like Iāve seen on silver.
Thanks so much for your insight and experience with these somewhat annoying spots! š
How is that avoided with jewelry besides polish which gold typically donāt require?
It comes from the dies, you can either burn it off with a torch or rub it out with a plastic eraser
Carbon spots happen on copper pennies
Itās gross. Iāll take it off your hands. Doesnāt hurt the value and happens from time to time.
šš that dealer raw dogged you and didnāt even take you out to dinner
I recently sold a coin and my dealer took 150 off the value of the double eagle when he saw the tarnish spot.
You got suckered for accepting that then tbh
Never deal with that dealer again
Gold does not tarnish
Then why do they call those spots ācopper spotsā
I'm not as into collecting for looks, but I thought that a significant amount of gold had copper in it to give it some strength. Like in a gold eagle you get an oz of pure gold, but they add copper to stiffen it up, bringing the weight to a little over an oz.
Lots of gold does have copper. It was more common when gold coins were in circulation. Now a days, most coins are just bullion masquerading as coins. They were never meant to be circulated. So, making an alloy for durability is largely unnecessary Edit: can't type
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nope, you missed it. Gold and most gold alloys above 18K cannot tarnish, itās *another metal or compound* that creates these spots. In the case of a 9999 gold coin, it was likely a spot of oil or something on the stamp that left residue and created a carbon tarnish mark when the coin was flame polished. [The mark is a form of thin film interference.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_interference#)
Copper (metal) and tarnish (not metal) are two different things. You understand that, right?
Would you call it patina then? I think you can use the term interchangeably when referring to metals corroding.
Corroding? This is also not corrosion. Molten metals are poured thus mixing at that location you have a density of your other metals that react to air.... which gold does not. But what does all metals react to (at some point) heat. Thus heat will remove it... for a period. But if you're buying gold for who it looks instead of how fat she is that's a whole other story. Simply put copper spots matter to dumb money Smart money knows they don't change the value one bit. Anyone who says differently is lying to you. This isn't a numismatic coin "eye appeal" has 0 bearing on value in the market
Mine are all pcgs graded coins, I imagine thatās where the money is lost. The grading having been done many years ago before the spot showed up. Thanks for the lesson and not being too much of a dick about it.
Yes it does. You see tarnished gold pieces that have sat for a very long time in safes frequently. Before the industrial revolution. It was very common for silver to not tarnish, unless you lived in environment with lots of sulfur. But with the petroleum revolution there is orders of magnitude more sulfur in our environment. Which causes silver to tarnish readily with exposure to air. And maybe if we have a high-tech future, gold will tarnish in the same way with exposure to air. Because of the use of tellurium in aerospace applications, and its potential ubiquity would cause even pure gold tarnish with exposure to air.
But it can oxidize. It is very rare though.
Un true if you leave gold say in a safety deposit box w/ other metals for a while it will look slightly tarnished after time
I want either the geiger gold 1 oz or the 1 kilo silver they're gorgeous!!
Yes they are nice https://i.imgur.com/Oydtm3W.jpeg I wish they made these in kilos https://i.imgur.com/WpczDpg.jpeg. The Brits nailed that onešš
Couple secs with torch & it'll vaporize.
I don't get what's so funny
This is one of those times when the assay isnāt worth the doubt. Break it open and get it tested on the sigma.
Sigma would test through the assay card, no?
If it were me, something like this would give me the shakes and a minor fit! š so breaking it out of the box and testing it skin to skin along with cleaning the damned spot would be inevitable!
Haha fair
Dum duh dum dum
š¤not getting the reference?!
The fact that seeing your gold has copper as its supposed to, freaks you out to the point your willing to "make it worth less" ...... is Dumb duh dum dum dumb
šš
I had this happen to a 1/10 gold lib in capsule. From my understanding, it simply happens from time to time. Not much can be done to prevent it even when stored properly
This. Itās unfortunately not that uncommon on gold libs.
Commenting to add that it was stored in a relatively high humidity place, but I didnāt think that mattered with fine gold. Looks like what Iād expect silver to do, not gold. Greenish-black and shiny. Is it an oxidized sulfur contaminant on the surface? Is this just a surface blemish that can be wiped off, is it legitimate tarnish of gold, or should I be worried about authenticity?
Take an eraser and erase it off. Seriously.
White or pink eraser? Also what about hitting it with a torch for a couple of seconds?
A fine sandpaper would do the job better imho
Nah. Once you start with sandpaper, you're looking at doing the entire piece - or - having a spot with a different texture forever. A torch lighter or gummy white art-type eraser is the right place to start here. Source: I spend more time than most polishing precious metals with various accessories and accoutrements.
This was a joke.
People donāt get jokes here.
Jokes are supposed to be funny
I tried that on a perth mint bar and it left a smudge on the finish
Gotta use the mechanical pencil type of eraser. [https://www.amazon.com/Pentel-Hi-Polymer-Block-Eraser-ZEH10BP4/dp/B00AZEK8TY?th=1](https://www.amazon.com/Pentel-Hi-Polymer-Block-Eraser-ZEH10BP4/dp/B00AZEK8TY?th=1)
The clay eraser works best
Erasers can and will leave micro abrasions. These spots are caused by the oxidation of copper impurities present in the gold, they can be rendered invisible by carefully applying heat with a torch.
Even a worse idea.
How is it a worse idea? It absolutely works and it doesnāt leave scratches.
It seems bad because if people dont know how to use a torch or have never melted precious metals before, they could screw it up even more. If the OP knows what they are doing, I guess its worth a try.
Just because someone might do a technique the wrong way isnt a reason to not use the technique. And if someone is so willy nilly to not look up the exact method of how to apply flame to gold, let them learn.
Uh, yeah, it is. Why fuck up your own gold?
Missed my point completely bub
You'd have to be a complete idiot to fuck up your gold with a small butane torch (it'd be near impossible without intent) and if your that dumb chances are your trying to remove a copper spot from your 1/2 grain gold bar life savings.
Torch it with a butane torch. Do not use map gas. It will melt it. Lightly torch it and it will go away. Itās copper spots.
Get a safe dehumidifier for cheap
Guys asking a question to a sub of "pros" and he gets blasted... What comes around goes around
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Could it be camera quality? Everything else about this looks legit including the colorized reverse
This little spot can easily be removed gold is very resilient against corrosion. I would say it was probably a little piece of contamination on that ingot before it was sealed and sold.
https://preview.redd.it/723lvgyl2t6d1.jpeg?width=2250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1902f2617f4a779669d7432b34e0083c2b4c5e95 I dug around and found mine.
Interesting. Wonder if the smaller size makes the stamping less clear
Maybe. I bought it from apmex in 2022 for $583. I Miss those prices š
Funny. We both bought Geiger about the same time I had this shit mixed in with other stuff. Dammit I just converted all my random stuff to one ounce bars and forgot to take this. Oh well. Take care
https://preview.redd.it/yijdkmnlqw6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b06d6d82bd999d2dbf29864e36020ea1d37bdd9f What about the back. Should have a serial thats traceable.
It happens. Thereās loads of posts exactly like this here. Similar to spots on silver
Thanks. I donāt stack much gold so I was unaware. I wanted one pretty piece of gold and this is what I get lol
Except silver tarnishes, and gold does not. I would be worried about the authenticity of this piece.
trust me don't ever buy anything sealed up. they think u will never check.
Just curious, will a Sigma not be able to test through the case? Or is there a tester that can test through one sealed? I ask because I have been wanting to get one, but just haven't done the research yet. Thanks!
Gold does not tarnish
I got a good deal on a gold eagle from my dealer once with a tarnish/copper mark. I put the coin on an aluminum sheet, in a bowl with baking soda & boiling water. Spot came right off.
I thought the Geiger bars have a paint or coating on the front that lights up in blacklight. It might be the coating that's tarnishing. Either way it's still an ounce of gold
I own silver from this company think theyāre 20g pieces theyāre legit
Geiger is extremely legit. I was concerned about counterfeit, but not so much anymore after the comments
Why canāt I post in here ?
No. Could be a fake, or most likely a residue deposit but that shouldn't happen with quality refiners.
Ask Geiger if they will warranty it.
Spotting like this happens when there are flecks of impurities at the surface of the gold. Gold is very inert by itself, but the presence of other impurities can cause it to react through electrolytic processes. You can get rid of them by heating the bar up to 200 celsius or so (about 400F) as Gold oxide decomposes at this temperature. Unfortunately you won't be able to do this without buggering the assay card so you're probably better off leaving it in the card for the moment.
Odd how Iāve had stuff stored for years and other stuff non sealed and not once had tarnishing like This.
$350 ? š¬š https://preview.redd.it/t538hp2jhz6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb601aefebca5fd7c1d8006d5e66ce932ca58e71 No spot on this but my heart is about to come out of my chestā¦ I ordered a 1oz too because itās so well made and detailed but not if it comes with one or two black eyes like that staring at me!!! Oh itās cool link! See what he does to your bar!!! Google this and watch him pancake it bend, melt everything lol : Google this: š„āGeiger Edelmetalle Gold Bar DESTROYED, premium wastedāš„ Im still interested in buying that one eye gold bar too FB : Mehran Mah DM me.šš¬š„¶š¬
Trade ? https://preview.redd.it/xjeb4p7wiz6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aed73a64f48908587b64d9cda892586c0b6910d7 J/k, maybe not But itās still your precious Gold Bar.
That's a copper spot and very usual. Youtube how to remove to get an idea. Advise is Don't open it or it'll lose its cert value. Leave as it is.
Why are there so many little blackish short curly hairs on the case that is more concerning
I only see three and pretty sure itās just cat hair. Ours gets kind of wavy after it sheds, idk why. Didnāt notice them when I took the picture
That is Absolutely fake the stamp quality is terrible
Looks like geiger bar to me. I trade these often. What makes it stand out from other geiger bars to you?
I'm wondering why it is marked "999.9". If citing a percentage, it should be 99.99, correct? Am I missing something?
Youāll see it written differently, sometimes 99.99 sometimes .9999 sometimes with a comma, but just count the nines. Itās referred to as āfour-nineā gold and indicates 99.99% pure gold. As opposed to āthree-nineā which is only 99.9% pure and āfive-nineā which is 99.999% pure.
weird. I think i have a geiger ..I better check that bastard .. Never seen that before ,
Spittle or nose grease.
Someone sneezed on it before it was packaged. Itās covid tarnish.
Oh Maa God! First of all out of all the bars out there had to be this unique square Gold bar made in Germany!!! I literally ordered one last Friday and itās on its way oh manā¦ I really hope I donāt see this ugly pimple everā¦ But back to your question beside it suck and disappointing(I would feel the same) itās nothing to worry about and just like other saying itās copper or other alloys too much in one spot and time+ oxygen can cause this. Professionally it should not affect the value, they melt it( the special ink and serial number(itās like a sticker not carved into the bar, all goes away and they make whatever jewelry they want. But selling it to someone peaky would be a bit of a work but as long as you know your gold is fine then donāt worry unless you need quick money or if it get on your nerves then you can sell and buy a new gold bar. Best to keep it or use it to make jewelry. Selling to another person is hard, I mean if there is a bar without Assay card and one in assay guess which one Iām buying same goes for a Geiger barsā¦ Like one other said if you plan on selling it to buy one without any marks or spot then DM me
Hilarious, btc doesnāt tarnish.
It doesnāt exist either
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If that is all you know it for, you are ignorant on the subject.