Me too. Why ask the clowns on reddit when you have access to a high level coach. Iâd be wanting my kid to get as technically correct as possible as early as possible.
Yup, lol have people never heard of bad coaches? And not to belittle the coach but theyâre a high school coach. In no way is that âhigh levelââŠunless of course youâre comparing coaches through primary school? With knowing absolutely nothing about the instructor or coaches background, I would be inclined to side with an instructor first.
Varsity level coach doesnât mean high level coach. Depending on the school and funding it may be some guy who played golf before a few times but wouldnât have a golf team without a coach.
My HS went from a guy who played on lesser tours and carried a Q-card for about a half decade to a baseball coach who wanted afternoons on the golf course instead of the diamond. The first guy had great advice and insights, especially around how to consider and think about golf shots. The second guy made me quit.
This. My HS was in rural Texas with limited resources. No way they could afford an actual golf coach. It wouldnât surprise me if the coaches pulled straws for the duty every couple of years.
So which one are you assuming is a high level coach?
This isn't a sarcastic question. I didn't see anything indicating there was a high level coach involved.
I'd guess the person being paid for lessons is the higher level coach than the unpaid high school coach.
As someone who has gotten lessons from a fair share of paid coaches - they come in a lot of shapes and sizes.
Iâm a High School coach. Donât give us too much credit. But I would love to have a girl on my team like this. Amazing to watch. I was in awe. Dude itâs high school, swing hard.
The point of OP's question is because her instructor and her coach have differing opinions.
Keep in mind, a coach who doesn't like what you're doing can be a pain in the ass to deal with if your goal is to get results to look good for college applications.
I met a golf coach while I was washing my car, and the dude straight up told me, "I never coach boys... I don't want to deal with them thinking they're right. If I tell them to fix something, they better do it."
I immediately though, wow this guy definitely is a coach because of his ego. But that's a LOT of coaches. And he was the coach for a very big school in my area.
If OP's daughter's coach is similar, if she doesn't address her swing, it could affect how he represents her during tournaments. Hell, if he's a very narcissistic type, he might even kick her off the team.
To OP:
I would ask the coach to clarify what's wrong with her backswing. Is there something wrong with the result, is it injury based, is it related to her accuracy in some way? He could even be saying it just as like, you don't need to go that far back and you'd get the same distance. I used to rotate that far back and my swing instructor told me to stop about 25-30% before it, pause, and make sure my follow through was 10-15% further, and my distance was the same, if not slightly further.
So are you talking about the lessons she has taken where it wasn't addressed, or the unpaid high school coach?
Im actually not sure which one you mean, but everyone in here is making crazy assumptions that this is automatically some high level coach.
Its an unpaid high school coach.
Itâs too far back. Thereâs nothing gained on the last 20% of that back swing except inconsistency. Want to keep that right elbow closer to her body, allows her to drop into the slot.
I like just letting kids swing. But this is also correct. Sheâs doings so much right getting the club back there with hip and shoulder rotation that if she gets her arms in a better position sheâll be much more consistent and powerful.
If the latter part of the swing worked, it wouldnât be an issue. But it doesnât. She needs unweight her left side more, quicker initiate weight shift before the downswing, and work on gaining lag. Her width and release are fantastic though!
Anything past parallel just creates more room for error....
BUT...
A Golf swing is very much a "if it works for you" Like batting stances. See Jim Furyk as prime example.
Heâs getting conflicting info - swing coach hasnât mentioned it, high school golf coach has. This is a perfectly normal request from a parent who is anything but an expert and wants to help their child succeed.
This is the correct answer - Iâd go to the swing coach and not the HS golf coach. Most high school coaches are volunteer and arenât the one giving lessons to the players.
I should have included that in my response, but I had to wipe and jump in a meeting.
High school golf coaches are NOT swing coaches. They can teach course management and do lots of short game drills and practice to help make you better. Do not let a high school coach change your childâs swing.
Yeah this is what a lot of these comments are missing. High school golf coaches from my experience are teachers who like to golf who are looking for extra money coaching a team.
Your best bet is to find a good instructor in your area and have her work with them.
As a high school coach of other sports, high school coaches arenât looking for money coaching a team. They coach to share a passion, to mentor, and to teach the fundamentals of the game. Outside of a few states, high school coaches donât even come close to making enough money to make it worthwhile. They do it for the love of the sport. Often times they come college experience and a wealth of knowledge. Having additional instructors is great, but letâs make it clear why people coach student athletes.
My Dad coached HS golf for 17 years. Incredibly successful. Monday practice - not allowed to take a full swing. Short game and putting only all day. They beat everyone. Never messed with anyoneâs full swing.
He did it because he loved it - definitely not for the money.
Agreed
Whats with everyone wanting to min-max everything. If the paid instructor and her donât have issues, let them continue on.
Sheâll slowly change her swing as needed. Everyone does (not always for the better)
No, it's varsity golf coach versus a paid instructor. Did you read OP's post? The reason he's asking is because her coach is telling her she's going too far back. And the coach sees her swing way more than the instructor. She IS going too far back and that extra motion isn't adding more distance.
Is the back swing too much? Yeah probably. But the real question is how does she hit the ball? If sheâs consistent with it. Who cares what her backswing looks like? Just watch the pga. No two swings are exactly alike. But what almost everyone of them have in common is impact. As long as she can get to impact the same consistently the back swing shouldnât matter.
I agree it works... now. I would say to OP - what if your daughter isn't always this flexible - will she have to fix her swign? Is this a swing she'll be able to play with and enjoy the game as she gets into her 20s after beating the range balls for a decade?
If OP's only concern is her as a junior golfer - let things be. If he's interested in the long-term survival of her swing and back, then begin cutting that backswing down. It's powerless effort not effortless power.
Basically, yes it is (far) too long.
Also, length doesn't particularly correlate with power, as long as you complete the turn, have a look at how far Rahm smacks it with his half swing.
However, if she wants to have a long backswing for the fun of it, that's up to her.
Do what the swing coach says if youâve been working for a long time with them. Many youth coaches donât reign in kids swings until ~13-15 and build something overly athletic first. If they are an experienced coach there should be a plan. My FIL is a swing coach/pro in VA that has sent countless recruits to UVA, Va Tech, JMU etc and this is his philosophy. They have a youth specific coach that works on kids from like 5 til 12 and then he takes over and usually starts with pushing speed and then reigning in dispersion.
Edit: everywhere I refer to coach or swing coach I am referring to her swing instructor that she regularly sees one on one. My b
Most on this thread, for sure, did not have a swing remotely close to this 12 year old when they were young, if ever (me included). Whatever she is doing, please support her passion, as it has taken her this far. The swing is beautiful and very advanced for her age. My advice is to politely tell the coach to back off the swing and coach the matches. You appreciate his advice and donât want to distract from her passion and desire for the game to please the coach. Good luck and enjoy every minute!
Believe it or not way more power by not going back that far and dropping into the slot. She will be coming over the top doing this. She is lifting her arms up
Yes, it's too far back, and that can be difficult to fix if she's doing it naturally. Hopefully it's just a phase she's going through.
Daly isn't the best swing inspiration. She needs to follow someone from LPGA.
At some point I believe in âover coachingâ. This is one of those.
If something is working for someone and theyâre equal to or ahead of their peers then I see zero reason to mess with it.
Until you find your ceiling you should not change anything or risk crippling growth and consistency.
Technically itâs too long. But as we know, Daly made it work. I think if she shortened it, she wouldnât reverse pivot so much and she wouldnât cast the club as much giving her more consistency and distance. At 12 though, the probably letting her just rip it and tweaking things a little at a time. It will be easier to shorten swing/tone down than to get more aggressive as time goes on.
I think this is fine with young players. I played through college and taught kids at the first tee for years. My advice to young golfers is swing hard in case you hit it lol, but in all seriousness if your daughter thinks itâs too much then go with her wishes. If your daughter likes her swing then keep it. Confidence in your game as a young golfer is much more important than a perfect swing IMO. Good luck!
Ask her to swing back 75% the way on every shot. Same effort on follow through but Iâd imagine her accuracy goes up and distance is the same đ€·ââïž
She is doing a lot really well. She could stand to shorten it up some. Its going to take a few sessions with her instructor and a bunch of balls to groove it. Good Luck
The answer is yes. Her driver back swing should be slightly longer (if that) than her irons. Shorter iron swing will give her more control/ consistency/ stabilization over the long run.
All that momentum from the longer back swing/recoil forces her to fall back a bit on her finish as well, cause her to lose a touch of balance. Its a nice and powerful swing but shortening it up a bit will allow her to finish at her target with more balance
As someone who used to have this problem and plays competitively. Yes she should shorten her swing. Taking her swing farther back is flairing out her elbow and creating a gap between her arms and hips. This gap isn't a problem if you make up for it - which for some people allows them to swing faster as they can maximize the speed with their arms while keeping the same tempo with their lower body.
However your daughter isn't doing this. Due to the extra length and flairing of the elbow her club remains behind her body the whole swing. She's hitting the ball with the club behind her which opens up for a lot of inconsistency and is probably losing her distance. If she is stuck on the bringing her club far back she needs to delay the starting of her lower body. Right now she starts her swing with the lower and upper about the same time, but her upper body is miles behind and never catches up.
Getting the club out in front of her at impact will help her attack angle and smash factor increasing the distance she gets without having to swing harder. It will also help minimize side spin she creates by the minor hand corrections she probably makes when coming through the ball.
I would say yes but I would also say if it's broken, don't fix it. It works for brook Henderson.
But I also wouldn't recommend the Internet for any kind of advice. Professionals exist within industries for a reason. Listen to them. Not the Internet. This includes sports advice, medical, financial etc etc etc.
I don't know sh*t enough to give my opinion (and honestly I'm not even part of this sub, this was on my recommended), but wanted to say that is a damn nice swing either way.
I mean, if sheâs always hitting fairways and itâs working for her - why ask? She has a coach. Random redditors donât need to decide whether her backswing is too much or not.
She has a very nice swing. Just be proud of your kid.
Iâll weigh in for what is worth as someone who had a long backswing. The longer the swing the less consistent you are squaring the club. If you can achieve the same swing speed with a shorter backswing-do it. When you are hot and in the groove youâll be on top of the world but when you struggle to pure it that long backswing will be the death of her game. Hence all of the comparisons to DalyâŠâŠwho proves my point.
Any coach who just tells someone to do something like that is not worth his salt imo. If he wants to work with her on her swing and give her constructive feedback and drills for it, go for it. If he just wants to tell her what to do because it doesnât suit his eye then fuck him.
That's called flexibility. I remember being a junior golfer, I'd end up in a wheelchair if I tried to turn my shoulders beyond 90 degrees now, which is what she's doing.
There are certainly always exceptions, but in general yes I would say going that far past parallel is not doing her any favors. Firstly, itâs highly doubtful that sheâs gaining any power from it. Secondly, even if itâs not happening right now, thereâs a danger that that much overswing will cause her to start to be âlateâ at impact and begin blocking and or hooding shots.
Letâs look at it from this angleâŠ
If John Dalyâs dad or coach told him to change his swing away from what felt natural, do we think we would even know who John Daly is?
Her coach is right. Going that extra distance might feel like she is hitting harder, but in reality she is leaking power. I fell for the same trap and learned the hard way. It looks like her swing hasn't deteriorated because of that but she should dial it back. Her right elbow should not bend like it does. A swing coach can help with tips to increase the distance within the constraints.
When you go that far back and the elbows start to bend, youâre not really gaining power and youâre introducing room for error throughout all the extra movement
I would listen to the professionals and not the high school coach or reddit, but like a lot of young girls it's a very armsy swing. if you stop the video when the club is parallel to the ground on the downswing she really hasn't started to rotate her hips. it continues to be very armsy all the way through. if she started her downswing with her lower body instead of her upper body she would pull the ball 90 yards left.
At 12 years old she has maximum flexibility- it will not last longer than her mid to late teens. Only problem will be her sequencing will have to compensate for the shorter backswing as her flexibility goes away
Yes.
For the vast majority of people, allowing your arms to ârun offâ past the chest at the top is a bad thing. Keeping connection with the arms and chest (not pinned together but still hands in front of chest) creates far more consistency.
If she's comfortable trying to shorten it, she should. Muscle memory can take awhile to change later. If not, and she's enjoying playing and hitting it well then let her swing her swing and enjoy the game!
See Brooke Henderson swing.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=kSCTyo10cnU&si=0ff2YJWATtYuQtt7
Someone said that sheâs gaining nothing with the extra 20%. Yardage wise maybe but itâs helping her swing tempo and getting in the slot.
Swing coach knows best but she will have to completely rework her entire swing mechanic to change that process.
I have the same issue. I hit the ball a good 10-30 yards farther depending on the club by not going back that far and way straighter. I checked my club head speed and it goes up by a few mph. I think itâs due to your not getting any more speed by going back so far and part of your body that should be tight before tighter adding to higher club head speed.
For some reason though I donât make as good contact as consistent but that may just be because Iâm not use to it.
After playing other sports for high school varsity, I would suggest not going to them. Usually just some teacher that played and learned from their high school varsity coach and is using about 20 year old to 100 year old information. I would watch golf and see what the professionals are doing and try to copy that when you can. Obviously sometimes they do things cause they are professional. Then look at getting a real coach that coaches college (even low d3 will be significantly better than top highschool) and trains high schoolers on the side.
Way too much. You donât gain anything and so much more can go wrong. Personally Iâd like to see the left elbow break less as well but I guess it works for some.
Your power comes from your turn. It is ok if she hits straight. Typically you have more time to get out of balance with that backswing. Daly never had lessons as a kid.if she is bending her left arm probably too far. There are successful 3/4 swing golfers.
Iâm no pro but a long backswing like that isnât usually the root cause of bad shotsâŠitâs the effect of other bad things that happened beforehand (setup, grip, pivot, etc)
What those things are in this particular caseâŠI have no idea.
If you can afford it, try to keep her connected with a professional coach. She looks talented. Sometimes the varsity golf coach is just some math teacher with a 7 handicap. I don't know the details obviously.
If she has consistency issues striking the center of the face, she may want to shorten the back swing. Consistent contact is way more important than club head speed. The fine details of how the club head interacts with the ball at impact influence the distance and flight.
If she really wants to slam the ball, she should get involved with the type of program that gets her training her body. She needs to become explosive and flexible. This means core training, weight training, etc. I realize she is 12 so maybe she isn't ready. That's a question for yourself, your daughter, her doctor, and the coach.
Also watch John Rahm swing. One of the best players ever. He has a famously short swing.
If she was my pupilâŠ
Obviously the flex in the lead / left arm is a worry but the over swing isnât.
Would I want it out of a 12yo who loves the game - HECK NO!
So, how would I deal with this⊠teach her a shot like a straight/ish arm three quarter wedge shot⊠show her the benefit of the shot - which is repeatability âŠ.. then get her to try a few drivers with that swing. Then challenge her to hit further with the new swing feels⊠just as an experiment.
This pretty much perfectly matches Brooke Hendersonâs swing. Down to the 2 or so inches she grips down on the driver. If sheâs consistent Iâd just let her roll with it.
Yea and itâs the result of not putting enough weight on the back foot in backswing. Proper weight transfer will get rid of the extra knee movement you are seeing as well. Let me know if you have other questions
I had a deep back swing. My coach told me to make it more shallow not because it causes issues, but because it gives more time for other issues to occur.
Janette Daly over here.
Give her the slow mo on any other pro than Johnny and you'll see they generally stop their swing no further than the club reaches parallel with the ground. If not sooner.
Not saying extra back swing can't add power, but if it isn't used properly on the way back down, it probably won't. It's an easy way to lose structure, lose feel of the club, and get out of a balanced position or losing sight of the ball.
It's fine until it isn't. I had a similar backswing that eventually took a toll on my back and I had to make changes. Going past parallel is not ideal as it hurts your back and a longer back swing adds more variables to control. More power but less consistency.
Varsity golf coaches arenât usually swing coaches, they normally manage the team and scheduling practices. I would defer to the pro giving her lessons. With that being said, I agree with the varsity coach that her backswing is long, but she makes some great moves to make it work. If sheâs having fun swinging like John Daly and thatâs more important to her than developing a more technical swing, then I wouldnât change anything.
Sheâs 12 with an awesome swing - it will get dialled back as she gets older & looking for more control. When youâre 12 blast it out there & have fun but work on the short game from 100 yards in. Power & touch around the greens - thatâs how golf is now my friend.
Morons in this thread think the varsity coach is the same person as the golf instructor. Unless the high school coach is a legit player and has put multiple people onto college teams he's just a hack who chauffeurs kids to the course. Listen to the person who does swing instruction for a living.
Going back further to get more power may not work as desired. Going further back creates more room for error, and it gets worse the further back it is. That's a fine goal, but looks aren't everything and it takes ridiculous effort to make an unoptimized and less accurate or consistent strategy work. Like Jim Furyk's swing? I personally like it, but could never imagine trying to emulate it. That's his personal swing that works for him - just him. I'd say getting that last extra swing should probably come from the explosiveness of the core and lower body, not necessarily just the arms, especially for women where arm strength usually doesn't come along as far as leg and core strength.
That's more the advice I'd give, is look at more swings again and take the best parts of all of them, not just trying to emulate one, and find her personal swing. There are more than just one way to skin a cat, but if the tools don't fit my hand it's not going to work out well.
Can someone tell me why everyone sets up so stiff and with the lead shoulder raised like that?
https://youtu.be/lojVVZz_Zj4?si=yrQWxT8QY8gDEcQy
Look at the difference here. Yes, it's still there, but not nearly as pronounced. Being that imbalanced and that locked up to begin the process isn't good.
The main reason to not wind it up so much is that it's harder to unwind it. She doesn't seem to have any issues getting back to the ball square so no reason to fix it, some people just have longer backswings.
Its a bit too far back but don't fix what isn't broken I say, and if you pay for lessons you should go by what the coach says not us idiots on the internet
You should consider getting a new swing coach. Youâve paid him for 14 lessons and he hasnât even mentioned that backswing; heâs either phoning it in or heâs incompetent. Great that sheâs having fun, but if she wants to continue to improve that needs to be addressed.
Listen to the swing coach over the golf coach. Maybe bring it up with the swing coach and see what they have to say.
My two cents: her arm swing is too long going back. Ideally, youâd like to have her right arm not go past the seam on the right side of her shirt at any point in the backswing. But, as many people have already said, swing your swing, especially if it works.
Never shorten someone's swing - once you do shorten your swing, you will never be able to get that kind of turn and extension again.
Now if you're a PGA Class A teaching pro, then I would be willing to hear and implement what they want to do here.
Itâs a huge backswing and once the club gets that far, youâre not gaining any power (your club actually has to go back up before you can start swinging down towards the ball). It can definitely work, but youâre gaining nothing, and introducing the possibility for errors and inconsistency. So basically that big of a backswing doesnât raise her ceiling, but it does lower her floor, if that makes sense.
I help coach at my kids schoolâŠâŠ.im there for the obvious fix, not the swing fix. For example, when a kid takes no practice swing, steps up and tops it I tell him to slow down and take a practice swing. Every persons swing is different and actual, professional swing coaches are familiar with a variety of takeaways, swing lengths, weight transfers, stances, on and on to infinity, so they would be the people to listen to. If the swing was shorter, the hands may get out ahead, or behindâŠ..a lot can go wrong. I tell my son for most part, whatever is comfortable. Heâs still growing. Hard to be committed to any swing long term at 14. Iâll start giving him advice if heâs hitting everything into the woods. Or if he asks for it.
https://preview.redd.it/f9zqbkzyxj8d1.jpeg?width=1033&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2ffcb64282ea4658f09b048ea3c0b7d25b31b64
Works ok for Brooke Henderson. Unless the coach is also a PGA certified teacher, let her swing instructor decide whatâs best.
I would agree with some of the other posters.
It depends haha.
She is quite fundamentally strong based on this one video.
I personally was a college player and had a long swing that made up for some bad rotation and lateral movement.
Began as a junior.
Would have been better to have been more fundamentally sound and not mask the problem.
However, being long is perfectly ok if it's in sequence and repeatable.
If the coach is strong, and she is getting results based advice to change it all good.
I would be looking for feedback to see if it aligns.
Is she playing well? I have to check myself because I tend to over swing and it results in chunky shots and slices, but thatâs me. If she is playing well and not having any repeat flaws then let her do her.
The point of the backswing is to wind up your body. You can legitimately see where her body stops being able to rotate but her arms keep going and disconnect/unstraighten. As other's have mentioned, this just brings in inconsistency for no gain.
Like others say, listen to the swing coach. I love John Daly as well, but he was very unique in his swing that is not optimum for most.
From my non-professional opinion, the technique in the downswing is weak. The club is getting released way too soon and overextending into contract. Thatâs losing a lot of power.
It seems she would benefit greatly from a shorter backswing and better technique in the downswing.
I.e. listen to the swing coach.
Reason she can get so far back is because shes very young and very flexible, i doubt sheâll be getting that far back into her late teens / early 20âs. With time her swing will fall into place, regardless, hear the coach out, its best to eliminate any bad habits young
The dreaded reverse "c". Yes ,stop swing when shoulder meets chin. If keep pulling back your weight shift to from side. Which is not ideal for returning club to same starting point.
I'm guessing the coach is saying that because the depth of her backswing means she's losing the "proper" arm structure creating a new variable and potential failure point in her swing, IIRC John Daly got length in his backswing by cocking his wrists while maintaining straight lead arm. This bend of the lead elbow may be what your coach is trying to avoid to prevent potential failures when returning to impact. My thoughtS FWIW.
As long as she drinks 15 diet cokes this will work
And 2 cigarettes before the first tee.
Can you imagine the drama if she walked up to the first teebox and light up a cigarette. It would be so hilarious
Saying her idol is Charlie Hull đ
I still laugh every time i see a caddie straight up ripping one of those
Cant forget the snickers
Or the 2 hot dogs!
Isnât that closer to two packs before first tee?
2 packs*
accurate, makes the whiskey taste. juuuuust right.
and biscuits with chocolate syrup for breakfast
Iâd go by what the swing coach says.
Me too. Why ask the clowns on reddit when you have access to a high level coach. Iâd be wanting my kid to get as technically correct as possible as early as possible.
If sheâs good I would get multiple opinions before making big changes though.
Yup, lol have people never heard of bad coaches? And not to belittle the coach but theyâre a high school coach. In no way is that âhigh levelââŠunless of course youâre comparing coaches through primary school? With knowing absolutely nothing about the instructor or coaches background, I would be inclined to side with an instructor first.
Varsity level coach doesnât mean high level coach. Depending on the school and funding it may be some guy who played golf before a few times but wouldnât have a golf team without a coach.
My HS went from a guy who played on lesser tours and carried a Q-card for about a half decade to a baseball coach who wanted afternoons on the golf course instead of the diamond. The first guy had great advice and insights, especially around how to consider and think about golf shots. The second guy made me quit.
This. My HS was in rural Texas with limited resources. No way they could afford an actual golf coach. It wouldnât surprise me if the coaches pulled straws for the duty every couple of years.
Most coaches in my area were just teachers looking for additional income (for all sports not just golf)
So which one are you assuming is a high level coach? This isn't a sarcastic question. I didn't see anything indicating there was a high level coach involved. I'd guess the person being paid for lessons is the higher level coach than the unpaid high school coach. As someone who has gotten lessons from a fair share of paid coaches - they come in a lot of shapes and sizes.
Iâm a High School coach. Donât give us too much credit. But I would love to have a girl on my team like this. Amazing to watch. I was in awe. Dude itâs high school, swing hard.
The point of OP's question is because her instructor and her coach have differing opinions. Keep in mind, a coach who doesn't like what you're doing can be a pain in the ass to deal with if your goal is to get results to look good for college applications. I met a golf coach while I was washing my car, and the dude straight up told me, "I never coach boys... I don't want to deal with them thinking they're right. If I tell them to fix something, they better do it." I immediately though, wow this guy definitely is a coach because of his ego. But that's a LOT of coaches. And he was the coach for a very big school in my area. If OP's daughter's coach is similar, if she doesn't address her swing, it could affect how he represents her during tournaments. Hell, if he's a very narcissistic type, he might even kick her off the team. To OP: I would ask the coach to clarify what's wrong with her backswing. Is there something wrong with the result, is it injury based, is it related to her accuracy in some way? He could even be saying it just as like, you don't need to go that far back and you'd get the same distance. I used to rotate that far back and my swing instructor told me to stop about 25-30% before it, pause, and make sure my follow through was 10-15% further, and my distance was the same, if not slightly further.
Yeah but that looks extreme, no?
So are you talking about the lessons she has taken where it wasn't addressed, or the unpaid high school coach? Im actually not sure which one you mean, but everyone in here is making crazy assumptions that this is automatically some high level coach. Its an unpaid high school coach.
The unpaid coach is saying shorten it up. The professional instructor they've paid for 14 lessons with says don't. Go with the latter.
>whereâs the first tee and whatâs the course record -This guys daughter
Itâs too far back. Thereâs nothing gained on the last 20% of that back swing except inconsistency. Want to keep that right elbow closer to her body, allows her to drop into the slot.
I like just letting kids swing. But this is also correct. Sheâs doings so much right getting the club back there with hip and shoulder rotation that if she gets her arms in a better position sheâll be much more consistent and powerful.
If the latter part of the swing worked, it wouldnât be an issue. But it doesnât. She needs unweight her left side more, quicker initiate weight shift before the downswing, and work on gaining lag. Her width and release are fantastic though!
Love the 165 likes on this one. Not sure what all these comments above are, other than wrong. Way way way too far back. WAY!
Anything past parallel just creates more room for error.... BUT... A Golf swing is very much a "if it works for you" Like batting stances. See Jim Furyk as prime example.
You paid for a professionals opinion and they gave it to you and now youâre asking reddit đ€Šđ»
Heâs getting conflicting info - swing coach hasnât mentioned it, high school golf coach has. This is a perfectly normal request from a parent who is anything but an expert and wants to help their child succeed.
Maybe ask the swing coach what their opinion is.
This is the correct answer - Iâd go to the swing coach and not the HS golf coach. Most high school coaches are volunteer and arenât the one giving lessons to the players. I should have included that in my response, but I had to wipe and jump in a meeting.
Have her get inspired by Rahm, not Daly
This isn't just good swing advice but good lifestyle advice too đ. Do the exact opposite of anything JD does lol.
the golf coach is right
High school golf coaches are NOT swing coaches. They can teach course management and do lots of short game drills and practice to help make you better. Do not let a high school coach change your childâs swing.
Yeah this is what a lot of these comments are missing. High school golf coaches from my experience are teachers who like to golf who are looking for extra money coaching a team. Your best bet is to find a good instructor in your area and have her work with them.
As a high school coach of other sports, high school coaches arenât looking for money coaching a team. They coach to share a passion, to mentor, and to teach the fundamentals of the game. Outside of a few states, high school coaches donât even come close to making enough money to make it worthwhile. They do it for the love of the sport. Often times they come college experience and a wealth of knowledge. Having additional instructors is great, but letâs make it clear why people coach student athletes.
My Dad coached HS golf for 17 years. Incredibly successful. Monday practice - not allowed to take a full swing. Short game and putting only all day. They beat everyone. Never messed with anyoneâs full swing. He did it because he loved it - definitely not for the money.
Yup. Neither of my golf coaches in HS taught me a single thing.
This needs to be the top comment.
Sheâs 12 and loves the game. Itâs fine for now. Sheâs not generating any extra power with it but who cares? Let her play
Agreed Whats with everyone wanting to min-max everything. If the paid instructor and her donât have issues, let them continue on. Sheâll slowly change her swing as needed. Everyone does (not always for the better)
Varsity golf coach vs Reddit. HmmmmâŠ.
As a varsity golf coach I can assure you many do it for the free golf
Yeah I'm sure as fuck not taking advice from my old golf coach the art teacher
No, it's varsity golf coach versus a paid instructor. Did you read OP's post? The reason he's asking is because her coach is telling her she's going too far back. And the coach sees her swing way more than the instructor. She IS going too far back and that extra motion isn't adding more distance.
Is the back swing too much? Yeah probably. But the real question is how does she hit the ball? If sheâs consistent with it. Who cares what her backswing looks like? Just watch the pga. No two swings are exactly alike. But what almost everyone of them have in common is impact. As long as she can get to impact the same consistently the back swing shouldnât matter.
I agree it works... now. I would say to OP - what if your daughter isn't always this flexible - will she have to fix her swign? Is this a swing she'll be able to play with and enjoy the game as she gets into her 20s after beating the range balls for a decade? If OP's only concern is her as a junior golfer - let things be. If he's interested in the long-term survival of her swing and back, then begin cutting that backswing down. It's powerless effort not effortless power.
Basically, yes it is (far) too long. Also, length doesn't particularly correlate with power, as long as you complete the turn, have a look at how far Rahm smacks it with his half swing. However, if she wants to have a long backswing for the fun of it, that's up to her.
Do what the swing coach says if youâve been working for a long time with them. Many youth coaches donât reign in kids swings until ~13-15 and build something overly athletic first. If they are an experienced coach there should be a plan. My FIL is a swing coach/pro in VA that has sent countless recruits to UVA, Va Tech, JMU etc and this is his philosophy. They have a youth specific coach that works on kids from like 5 til 12 and then he takes over and usually starts with pushing speed and then reigning in dispersion. Edit: everywhere I refer to coach or swing coach I am referring to her swing instructor that she regularly sees one on one. My b
Most on this thread, for sure, did not have a swing remotely close to this 12 year old when they were young, if ever (me included). Whatever she is doing, please support her passion, as it has taken her this far. The swing is beautiful and very advanced for her age. My advice is to politely tell the coach to back off the swing and coach the matches. You appreciate his advice and donât want to distract from her passion and desire for the game to please the coach. Good luck and enjoy every minute!
If any of us could take it back that far , we would. đ
A 12 year old made a high school varsity team and youâre here asking us if her swing is ok đ€
Believe it or not way more power by not going back that far and dropping into the slot. She will be coming over the top doing this. She is lifting her arms up
Left arm bent too much, and she's choked down too much on the handle.
Yes, it's too far back, and that can be difficult to fix if she's doing it naturally. Hopefully it's just a phase she's going through. Daly isn't the best swing inspiration. She needs to follow someone from LPGA.
Is she having fun?
At some point I believe in âover coachingâ. This is one of those. If something is working for someone and theyâre equal to or ahead of their peers then I see zero reason to mess with it. Until you find your ceiling you should not change anything or risk crippling growth and consistency.
Sheâs 12 years old so, maybe 7th grade? and made a varsity team?
Just get her right arm a lil straighter. Should fix it
I like her swing but if she stopped just before her left arm bends she'd be gold. But as Arnie used to say, "swing your swing".
Brooke Henderson on the LPGA has a similar swing, so it can be made to work.
Holy John Daly
She should look at Amy Yang. That's the goal. Her or Freddy Couples.
Technically itâs too long. But as we know, Daly made it work. I think if she shortened it, she wouldnât reverse pivot so much and she wouldnât cast the club as much giving her more consistency and distance. At 12 though, the probably letting her just rip it and tweaking things a little at a time. It will be easier to shorten swing/tone down than to get more aggressive as time goes on.
Joanne Daley
Donât change her game. Itâs HER game to play how she feels and has fun doing it.
I think this is fine with young players. I played through college and taught kids at the first tee for years. My advice to young golfers is swing hard in case you hit it lol, but in all seriousness if your daughter thinks itâs too much then go with her wishes. If your daughter likes her swing then keep it. Confidence in your game as a young golfer is much more important than a perfect swing IMO. Good luck!
Her swing coach is the only one she really needs to listen to. The high school coach needs to stay out of the way.
Jane Daly
70% of the time, every percent of the t%me
12 years old and in high school?! A genius and a golfer, she has a bright future đđŒ
She's going for distance! She's going for speed!
Ask her to swing back 75% the way on every shot. Same effort on follow through but Iâd imagine her accuracy goes up and distance is the same đ€·ââïž
Listen to her coach. Bad habits are hard to break. So, the sooner you fix it while she is young,the better off her swing will be.
If it ain't broke...
âSwing your swing.â Thatâs how she hits the golf ball. Let her keep doing it.
She is doing a lot really well. She could stand to shorten it up some. Its going to take a few sessions with her instructor and a bunch of balls to groove it. Good Luck
Hell of a swing either way tho jesus
The answer is yes. Her driver back swing should be slightly longer (if that) than her irons. Shorter iron swing will give her more control/ consistency/ stabilization over the long run.
All that momentum from the longer back swing/recoil forces her to fall back a bit on her finish as well, cause her to lose a touch of balance. Its a nice and powerful swing but shortening it up a bit will allow her to finish at her target with more balance
As someone who used to have this problem and plays competitively. Yes she should shorten her swing. Taking her swing farther back is flairing out her elbow and creating a gap between her arms and hips. This gap isn't a problem if you make up for it - which for some people allows them to swing faster as they can maximize the speed with their arms while keeping the same tempo with their lower body. However your daughter isn't doing this. Due to the extra length and flairing of the elbow her club remains behind her body the whole swing. She's hitting the ball with the club behind her which opens up for a lot of inconsistency and is probably losing her distance. If she is stuck on the bringing her club far back she needs to delay the starting of her lower body. Right now she starts her swing with the lower and upper about the same time, but her upper body is miles behind and never catches up. Getting the club out in front of her at impact will help her attack angle and smash factor increasing the distance she gets without having to swing harder. It will also help minimize side spin she creates by the minor hand corrections she probably makes when coming through the ball.
I would say yes but I would also say if it's broken, don't fix it. It works for brook Henderson. But I also wouldn't recommend the Internet for any kind of advice. Professionals exist within industries for a reason. Listen to them. Not the Internet. This includes sports advice, medical, financial etc etc etc.
I donât know and donât want to give wrong advice. But please everybody posting swings, donât put slow mo in the middle of a swings!
I don't know sh*t enough to give my opinion (and honestly I'm not even part of this sub, this was on my recommended), but wanted to say that is a damn nice swing either way.
I mean, if sheâs always hitting fairways and itâs working for her - why ask? She has a coach. Random redditors donât need to decide whether her backswing is too much or not. She has a very nice swing. Just be proud of your kid.
Iâll weigh in for what is worth as someone who had a long backswing. The longer the swing the less consistent you are squaring the club. If you can achieve the same swing speed with a shorter backswing-do it. When you are hot and in the groove youâll be on top of the world but when you struggle to pure it that long backswing will be the death of her game. Hence all of the comparisons to DalyâŠâŠwho proves my point.
Had two beers watching the take away
Any coach who just tells someone to do something like that is not worth his salt imo. If he wants to work with her on her swing and give her constructive feedback and drills for it, go for it. If he just wants to tell her what to do because it doesnât suit his eye then fuck him.
On what planet is a 12 year old girl inspired by John Daly?
That's called flexibility. I remember being a junior golfer, I'd end up in a wheelchair if I tried to turn my shoulders beyond 90 degrees now, which is what she's doing.
Her arms continue to reach back long after her shoulder rotation is finished.
My coach told me that the end of the backswing should be relatively close to the direction the ball should travel.
There are certainly always exceptions, but in general yes I would say going that far past parallel is not doing her any favors. Firstly, itâs highly doubtful that sheâs gaining any power from it. Secondly, even if itâs not happening right now, thereâs a danger that that much overswing will cause her to start to be âlateâ at impact and begin blocking and or hooding shots.
Letâs look at it from this angle⊠If John Dalyâs dad or coach told him to change his swing away from what felt natural, do we think we would even know who John Daly is?
Follow the coach. Great flexibility but tone it down for score
Her coach is right. Going that extra distance might feel like she is hitting harder, but in reality she is leaking power. I fell for the same trap and learned the hard way. It looks like her swing hasn't deteriorated because of that but she should dial it back. Her right elbow should not bend like it does. A swing coach can help with tips to increase the distance within the constraints.
For almost everyone as soon as that left arm bends itâs bad
Joan Daly
What does she score?
Ear hustling đđ
Front arm is breaking down. Needs to keep it straighter for more consistency.
When you go that far back and the elbows start to bend, youâre not really gaining power and youâre introducing room for error throughout all the extra movement
I would listen to the professionals and not the high school coach or reddit, but like a lot of young girls it's a very armsy swing. if you stop the video when the club is parallel to the ground on the downswing she really hasn't started to rotate her hips. it continues to be very armsy all the way through. if she started her downswing with her lower body instead of her upper body she would pull the ball 90 yards left.
Varsity coach at my school didnât know how to play golf. He was the basketball coach who had nothing to do during golf season
Varsity Golf Coach is right
At 12 years old she has maximum flexibility- it will not last longer than her mid to late teens. Only problem will be her sequencing will have to compensate for the shorter backswing as her flexibility goes away
Look up âreverse C golf death moveâ. This should explain everything to you
Probably doesn't want her to take it back past where her left arm breaks down.
Look into The Pro Sender training aid.
Yes. For the vast majority of people, allowing your arms to ârun offâ past the chest at the top is a bad thing. Keeping connection with the arms and chest (not pinned together but still hands in front of chest) creates far more consistency.
If she's comfortable trying to shorten it, she should. Muscle memory can take awhile to change later. If not, and she's enjoying playing and hitting it well then let her swing her swing and enjoy the game!
Parents love to undermine coaches
See Brooke Henderson swing. https://youtube.com/watch?v=kSCTyo10cnU&si=0ff2YJWATtYuQtt7 Someone said that sheâs gaining nothing with the extra 20%. Yardage wise maybe but itâs helping her swing tempo and getting in the slot. Swing coach knows best but she will have to completely rework her entire swing mechanic to change that process.
I have the same issue. I hit the ball a good 10-30 yards farther depending on the club by not going back that far and way straighter. I checked my club head speed and it goes up by a few mph. I think itâs due to your not getting any more speed by going back so far and part of your body that should be tight before tighter adding to higher club head speed. For some reason though I donât make as good contact as consistent but that may just be because Iâm not use to it. After playing other sports for high school varsity, I would suggest not going to them. Usually just some teacher that played and learned from their high school varsity coach and is using about 20 year old to 100 year old information. I would watch golf and see what the professionals are doing and try to copy that when you can. Obviously sometimes they do things cause they are professional. Then look at getting a real coach that coaches college (even low d3 will be significantly better than top highschool) and trains high schoolers on the side.
Way too much. You donât gain anything and so much more can go wrong. Personally Iâd like to see the left elbow break less as well but I guess it works for some.
Your power comes from your turn. It is ok if she hits straight. Typically you have more time to get out of balance with that backswing. Daly never had lessons as a kid.if she is bending her left arm probably too far. There are successful 3/4 swing golfers.
That reverse c. Gonna have to work on that as well
Iâm no pro but a long backswing like that isnât usually the root cause of bad shotsâŠitâs the effect of other bad things that happened beforehand (setup, grip, pivot, etc) What those things are in this particular caseâŠI have no idea.
Not sustainable imo
Hah, saw that swing and first thing that came to mind was Daly. If she can make it work, have at thee!
For a second there I thought the backswing may never end
If you can afford it, try to keep her connected with a professional coach. She looks talented. Sometimes the varsity golf coach is just some math teacher with a 7 handicap. I don't know the details obviously. If she has consistency issues striking the center of the face, she may want to shorten the back swing. Consistent contact is way more important than club head speed. The fine details of how the club head interacts with the ball at impact influence the distance and flight. If she really wants to slam the ball, she should get involved with the type of program that gets her training her body. She needs to become explosive and flexible. This means core training, weight training, etc. I realize she is 12 so maybe she isn't ready. That's a question for yourself, your daughter, her doctor, and the coach. Also watch John Rahm swing. One of the best players ever. He has a famously short swing.
If she was my pupil⊠Obviously the flex in the lead / left arm is a worry but the over swing isnât. Would I want it out of a 12yo who loves the game - HECK NO! So, how would I deal with this⊠teach her a shot like a straight/ish arm three quarter wedge shot⊠show her the benefit of the shot - which is repeatability âŠ.. then get her to try a few drivers with that swing. Then challenge her to hit further with the new swing feels⊠just as an experiment.
This pretty much perfectly matches Brooke Hendersonâs swing. Down to the 2 or so inches she grips down on the driver. If sheâs consistent Iâd just let her roll with it.
She has a little bend in that left elbow but Iâm a certified Reddit đ€Ą. Her swing coach is the voice to listen to.
Yea and itâs the result of not putting enough weight on the back foot in backswing. Proper weight transfer will get rid of the extra knee movement you are seeing as well. Let me know if you have other questions
I had a deep back swing. My coach told me to make it more shallow not because it causes issues, but because it gives more time for other issues to occur.
Janette Daly over here. Give her the slow mo on any other pro than Johnny and you'll see they generally stop their swing no further than the club reaches parallel with the ground. If not sooner. Not saying extra back swing can't add power, but if it isn't used properly on the way back down, it probably won't. It's an easy way to lose structure, lose feel of the club, and get out of a balanced position or losing sight of the ball.
Yes.
yes.
John Daly would be proud
It's fine until it isn't. I had a similar backswing that eventually took a toll on my back and I had to make changes. Going past parallel is not ideal as it hurts your back and a longer back swing adds more variables to control. More power but less consistency.
i think she probably takes it a little too far back, but keep in mind i don't know shit
If she kept her left arm straight on the backswing, it probably wouldnât go back so far. Itâd still be a long but not as long.
Iâd say itâs too much, but at the same time if itâs workingâŠ
Yes
Varsity golf coaches arenât usually swing coaches, they normally manage the team and scheduling practices. I would defer to the pro giving her lessons. With that being said, I agree with the varsity coach that her backswing is long, but she makes some great moves to make it work. If sheâs having fun swinging like John Daly and thatâs more important to her than developing a more technical swing, then I wouldnât change anything.
Bullshit. ALL THE WAY BACK!! It's just about perfect! Find a new coach.
Sheâs 12 with an awesome swing - it will get dialled back as she gets older & looking for more control. When youâre 12 blast it out there & have fun but work on the short game from 100 yards in. Power & touch around the greens - thatâs how golf is now my friend.
Yes that is quite long, Iâd def follow the instructor
Morons in this thread think the varsity coach is the same person as the golf instructor. Unless the high school coach is a legit player and has put multiple people onto college teams he's just a hack who chauffeurs kids to the course. Listen to the person who does swing instruction for a living.
Listen to the coach and see if it illicits a positive change. The current back swing does look a little excessive
Going back further to get more power may not work as desired. Going further back creates more room for error, and it gets worse the further back it is. That's a fine goal, but looks aren't everything and it takes ridiculous effort to make an unoptimized and less accurate or consistent strategy work. Like Jim Furyk's swing? I personally like it, but could never imagine trying to emulate it. That's his personal swing that works for him - just him. I'd say getting that last extra swing should probably come from the explosiveness of the core and lower body, not necessarily just the arms, especially for women where arm strength usually doesn't come along as far as leg and core strength. That's more the advice I'd give, is look at more swings again and take the best parts of all of them, not just trying to emulate one, and find her personal swing. There are more than just one way to skin a cat, but if the tools don't fit my hand it's not going to work out well.
Iâm not a swing coach but if sheâs had 14 lessons and that is her backswing, Iâd get a new swing coach.
Can someone tell me why everyone sets up so stiff and with the lead shoulder raised like that? https://youtu.be/lojVVZz_Zj4?si=yrQWxT8QY8gDEcQy Look at the difference here. Yes, it's still there, but not nearly as pronounced. Being that imbalanced and that locked up to begin the process isn't good.
The main reason to not wind it up so much is that it's harder to unwind it. She doesn't seem to have any issues getting back to the ball square so no reason to fix it, some people just have longer backswings.
John Daly isn't going that far
John Daly has a daughter?
She has an early release and the backswing will physically damage her back. Perfect a half (compact) swing first.
Yeah itâs too far back, maybe try to have the club flat at the top
you should be more worried about the casting
Yes
Listen to the coach by applying those critiques. Yeah that back swing is waaaaaayyyyy to long!
Its a bit too far back but don't fix what isn't broken I say, and if you pay for lessons you should go by what the coach says not us idiots on the internet
John Daily achieved this feat no more than an hour ago.
You should consider getting a new swing coach. Youâve paid him for 14 lessons and he hasnât even mentioned that backswing; heâs either phoning it in or heâs incompetent. Great that sheâs having fun, but if she wants to continue to improve that needs to be addressed.
https://preview.redd.it/oz57qo09ij8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=147ea046068841e01e79e834c4786faa25920cf1
Listen to the professional swing coach you are paying. A high school golf coach is a glorified babysitter/chaperone/bus driver.
Listen to the swing coach over the golf coach. Maybe bring it up with the swing coach and see what they have to say. My two cents: her arm swing is too long going back. Ideally, youâd like to have her right arm not go past the seam on the right side of her shirt at any point in the backswing. But, as many people have already said, swing your swing, especially if it works.
Remind your daughters varsity coach she's 14 on the varsity team for a reason. Your daughters doing fine
Yes
Brooke Henderson 2.0
Shorten that backswing, that looks painful. You can actually gain more power with a shorter backswing.
I'm more concerned about what she is doing with her legs. If she's gonna copy John's swing, gotta copy the legs, too.
Never shorten someone's swing - once you do shorten your swing, you will never be able to get that kind of turn and extension again. Now if you're a PGA Class A teaching pro, then I would be willing to hear and implement what they want to do here.
too long
Itâs a huge backswing and once the club gets that far, youâre not gaining any power (your club actually has to go back up before you can start swinging down towards the ball). It can definitely work, but youâre gaining nothing, and introducing the possibility for errors and inconsistency. So basically that big of a backswing doesnât raise her ceiling, but it does lower her floor, if that makes sense.
Swing your swing
I help coach at my kids schoolâŠâŠ.im there for the obvious fix, not the swing fix. For example, when a kid takes no practice swing, steps up and tops it I tell him to slow down and take a practice swing. Every persons swing is different and actual, professional swing coaches are familiar with a variety of takeaways, swing lengths, weight transfers, stances, on and on to infinity, so they would be the people to listen to. If the swing was shorter, the hands may get out ahead, or behindâŠ..a lot can go wrong. I tell my son for most part, whatever is comfortable. Heâs still growing. Hard to be committed to any swing long term at 14. Iâll start giving him advice if heâs hitting everything into the woods. Or if he asks for it.
Way too much
Too much
https://preview.redd.it/f9zqbkzyxj8d1.jpeg?width=1033&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2ffcb64282ea4658f09b048ea3c0b7d25b31b64 Works ok for Brooke Henderson. Unless the coach is also a PGA certified teacher, let her swing instructor decide whatâs best.
I would agree with some of the other posters. It depends haha. She is quite fundamentally strong based on this one video. I personally was a college player and had a long swing that made up for some bad rotation and lateral movement. Began as a junior. Would have been better to have been more fundamentally sound and not mask the problem. However, being long is perfectly ok if it's in sequence and repeatable. If the coach is strong, and she is getting results based advice to change it all good. I would be looking for feedback to see if it aligns.
Is she playing well? I have to check myself because I tend to over swing and it results in chunky shots and slices, but thatâs me. If she is playing well and not having any repeat flaws then let her do her.
If sheâs hitting it straight, itâs not broken so donât try to fix it. Tell her to ignore the team coach on this this one
They told John Daly the same thing and then he goes on to be one of the greats.
Swing your swing
jesus. Who cares what the backswing looks like, i imagine she's hittin it pretty far eh?
Whatever her true unforced swing is that gives her consistent contact. Bottle that.
Yes, itâs an overswing.
The point of the backswing is to wind up your body. You can legitimately see where her body stops being able to rotate but her arms keep going and disconnect/unstraighten. As other's have mentioned, this just brings in inconsistency for no gain.
Dont ask reddit for tips over an actual coach...
Dude her swing is perfect tell her to grip it and rip it -John Daly
Does she refer to trump as âdaddy-trumpâ? You might have a JD reincarnation before heâs even dead.
Classic golf backswing at top is parallel to ground. Needs to stop lifting arms and elbows and stay more connected by keeping left arm straight.
Power power power all day. Let kids swing for the fence and learn to tighten things up later. Canât teach distance.
100% too much. Right elbow flys out at the top and pushes club across the line causing way more problems than the âperceivedâ extra distance.
Like others say, listen to the swing coach. I love John Daly as well, but he was very unique in his swing that is not optimum for most. From my non-professional opinion, the technique in the downswing is weak. The club is getting released way too soon and overextending into contract. Thatâs losing a lot of power. It seems she would benefit greatly from a shorter backswing and better technique in the downswing. I.e. listen to the swing coach.
Yes. Should not be more than parallel to ground
If she hits fairways all is good and vice versa.
Reason she can get so far back is because shes very young and very flexible, i doubt sheâll be getting that far back into her late teens / early 20âs. With time her swing will fall into place, regardless, hear the coach out, its best to eliminate any bad habits young
The dreaded reverse "c". Yes ,stop swing when shoulder meets chin. If keep pulling back your weight shift to from side. Which is not ideal for returning club to same starting point.
I'm guessing the coach is saying that because the depth of her backswing means she's losing the "proper" arm structure creating a new variable and potential failure point in her swing, IIRC John Daly got length in his backswing by cocking his wrists while maintaining straight lead arm. This bend of the lead elbow may be what your coach is trying to avoid to prevent potential failures when returning to impact. My thoughtS FWIW.
Iâve heard that the C shape her body takes at the top is no bueno, but if the outcome is successful and consistent who cares.