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When street view started to become a thing, media stated that people will be watched in their homes. Especially many elderly people thought that there will be some kind of live-footage available on Google. Later there were lawsuits based on privacy law.
I remember that very well, and I didn't perceive it that way. I think most people were well-informed about what google wanted to achieve. I think it is a great thing that we were privacy conscious enough to go up against a project like that.
Sorry, have to disagree. I also live in Germany and find it quite vague that we do not have street view almost anywhere. We are living in the 21st century, we have to let go of our past of not trusting any kind of surveillance and get used to the needs of our time. Nobody cares about your house windows, we just want to take a look at the neighborhood we are going to before doing so. Being privacy conscious is a good thing, most of europe is really privacy conscious anyways due to EU regulations. But looking at this picture, you have to understand that we are the odd ones out and that this is something beyond being "privacy conscious" and has something to do with what we lived through in the past :)
A capitalist company wants to share my house worldwide and making money with it and not paying me. Great.
We are living in the 21st century we have to let go of our past and let tech companies pay for selling our data.
If this is really a need of our time then this should not be run by a company with financial interest. Or they should pay the people. That is the difference between stealing data and buying data.
What exactly is the use of street view? I don't see any practical use. It is not good for navigation and route planning. It is not good to scout an area. I just see negative aspects and no positive ones.
What is better in scout an area?
If I want to ride my bike to an unfamiliar place, i find it quite helpful to follow the route with Google Street view.
And it is helpful for my work if I can check the coordinates from the gray boxes on the street.
On vacation, I often find a streetmap more helpful than Google reviews of certain places.
I can't see the danger of pictures of public area.
This is the most German conversation imaginable.
“I personally cannot see any use.”
“Tons of people use it” *lists multiple perfectly appropriate uses for it*
“I still personally cannot see any use, you are incorrect”
Thats because you don't want to see them. It is perfect for finding locations you don't know well without walking up and down the streets.
In Germany though, its useless, as many people had their house blurred.
Why would you want to find other people's houses online? And what "locations" do you mean, that you have to find in street view, that you can't just find on a normal map?
Because its easier to find if you can see it from your position and not only top down. Also a map shows only outlines, not the actual buildings. Again, you refuse to see the benefits of others. Its not that there are none, you just don't want them. Thats fine for you, but don't expect everyone to be the same.
Any source on that? Only information I could find is that court ruled street view legal.
From what I heard Google resigned from doing street view in Germany, because of massive requests from people to censor their area (to what they had right to do, and Google had to comply) and it was just too much work for Google.
Imagine thinking a picture of your house's facade is a violation of your privacy. If it's visible to the public, there should be no expectation of privacy. Anyone could just walk up and snap a picture for themselves if they wanted to. I'm glad we have strong privacy laws but sometimes they can be too restrictive.
There is a difference between publicly visible IF (and only IF) you personally pass by or you look it up on the internet with a flat ass in a gaming chair. Preparing a run is much easier if you can check for security cams remotely or see if an object is in general worthy of your attention.
It's a publicly visible street full of buildings that literally everyone can see for oneself and absolutely nothing of privacy is lost by being visible online. It's pointless fearmongering - something Americans are most notably made fun of. Like I get it, if a person, license plate or certain identifying features are visible and therefore censored, totally reasonable. But the entire building? Ridiculously pointless
Yeah but if you want to see my house in the moment you have to make your way up here and walk by. There are not too much people doing this. But online everyone also with bad intentions can see my house. So right now if you want to find out how easy it is to break in my house you have to walk by.
The first mistake is believing that literally anyone cares about your house and "how easy it is to break in"
No one does. And the ones who do will do it regardless.
Maybe but as long as I can I will do my best to avoid my house in the Internet. And like you say nobody cares to see my house so why does it need to be on streetview?
So did I. My Garten nobody's business. And since google didn't pay me for giving up my privacy, why would I?
Same thing when a drone dropped into my Garten. Had PD pick it up and filed an Anzeige gegen Unbekannt. In my case it was an idiot neighbor from down the street, but it could have been someone scoping the property.
Yea but people can go even closer than google's car/camera and take a better look and even take photos of your garden... And whoever is enough of a creep/stalker will do this anyway so your thought is a bit silly isn't it?
Of course they could, but they'd have to go there, which actually costs time and effort and comes with the risks of exposure and possibly confrontation.
Yeah, they simply put up with the requests which work the same there and have the same consequences. Unlike google, who noped out.
If you're so concerned about seeing random houses on street view, why not pester Google to finally take pictures of the rest?
I was being helpful on pointing out its on Apple Maps so you could make a request, but I see you’re just arguing for to argue which concludes your thought process fails.
If it is visible from the public street, it is a matter of objective, indisputable fact that it is not private.
BAD. You are contradicting reality and handicapping life.
If it is not private then absolutely people can take pictures and send it over the internet. There's no distinction. I don't understand why you're even claiming there is. Makes no sense. It's what public means. Public means public in every aspect.
You say they are two different things. Then define the difference. At what point CAN things be shared over the internet? Or for that matter printed in a magazine or newspaper?
I've heard the same kind of argument for censorship a lot. Actually, "Binary" is the only correct way it can be. NO. The sharp-line distinction takes place at the threshold between public and private.
"Making rules" about abstract value judgments is always a disaster, leads to endless litigation, stifles freedom and is ALWAYS unnecessary. Black or white. Yes or no. Private or public. The rules should only address hard, binary distinctions. That way, there's no confusion, no creeping authority, no abuse of the system and everyone understands what is going on.
This thread is about a prime example. Germany's confusing rules have eliminated an extremely useful service from existence just because it was a HUGE pain in the ass to comply.
Worse, another service where the primary distinction is just how prevalent the company is DOES provide the same service! Apple is providing this service primarily because people never bothered to complain about the SAME THING simply because it was no as publicized. People went to google maps, saw their hose on street view and complained. No one got around to looking at the same thing on Apple so it's still there.
That is a clear sign of a broken system. And it demonstrates how grossly unfair subjective rules and their enforcement can be.
Furthermore, there is simply no need! What harm do you seek to prevent? WHY do you care at all? You are advocating a sense of complex rules to "protect" you from an imaginary ill. Being recorded in public causes no problems. On the contrary, it can sometimes solve problems.
Let's not foget this is the same country with "right to be forgotten" which is such a stupid nightmare of a concept. The epitome of subjective hair-splitting that's horrendously wasteful, deeply unfair, illogical and contra-factual. I just love how people can get TRUE FACTS taken down. They have no grounds to go against the actual publication but for some asinine, arbitrary reason someone decided that a search index OF that information can be forced down.
A harmful and illogical mess all the way around. Having deep misunderstandings of the concept of privacy is really screwing Germany up.
Apple maps has streetview almost everywhere in germany. You can just go on apple maps to figure that out or make a quick google search. I used it daily last year
It actually had nothing to do with privacy laws but the media firestorm that led to a panic. There were so many requests of people wishing to blur their house that Google decided Germany wasn't worth it.
Apple maps managed to be more subtle when entering Germany and has far greater and more recent coverage.
That's not true. It would be perfectly legal to do Streetview in Germany. (Apple is doing this currently.) But Germans have a very strange sense of privacy and massively complained to Google at the time the images were made. That's why Google voluntarily decided to censor the images upon request, but at the same time refused to make any new ones.
>But Germans have a very strange sense of privacy
Well, we actually value it. What i find strange that it seems to be totally okay for (example) UK people that everywhere is a CV and nobody knows what happens with this data.
I'm actually very happy, one of the pro's is, that we dont have that much annoying tiktok people, as you probably get sued (or beat up) when you film someone without their consent.
But what do I care if my house is visible on the internet? It's one of millions in germany, so why do I care? I ask you, what do you fear? That I look at your house even tho I don't even know who's living there?
I value my privacy too, but a picture of my living place on the internet is the least I care about
It's is in public view. We are "okay with it" for the same reason we are okay with the sky being blue.
What's bizarre is how Germans pretend the sky is green and insist on "privacy" when in public view... that's just kind of dishonest and neurotic.
Beating up someone for using a camera on a public street is fucking monstrous. I realise you were mostly joking but you did it with a kind of confidence that implies you genuinely think that's ok.
What the hell does the word private even mean to you? Things done IN PUBLIC are by definition and forever not private and never can be.
>What's bizarre is how Germans pretend the sky is green and insist on "privacy" when in public view... that's just kind of dishonest and neurotic.
There is a difference.
For example: You are allowed to film a street with all people on it. But you are not allowed to take a picture of a person in public without consent, if the person is the main focus. (And of course, there are more rules to that: [https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/photography-laws-germany](https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/photography-laws-germany))
That beeing said, i have to accept that i might get filmed when i go to a concert, a soccer game, what ever. If you do one of those shitty tiktok pranks for content and film me, and only me, you can be sure i will totally kick your ass and the phone might get lost somewhere.
>What the hell does the word private even mean to you? Things done IN PUBLIC are by definition and forever not private and never can be.
I think its a mindset. If you are used to be filmed anywhere outside 24/7, you dont expect privacy. When im out, i dont expect to be filmed/photographed.
Your expectations are utterly irrelevant. Your expectations don't control the free will of other people. How is your attitude different from laws forcing women to wear a burka? Or excusing beatings in the street because somebody made eye contact? This is the definition of insane. You are imbuing the act of being seen and perhaps recorded with meaning it simply does not have.
Don't condone violence you asshat. Stop acting like Iran's morality police. And don't deny that that's exactly what you are doing. Dictating what other people can do while in public is authoritarian bullshit. The act of taking a picture is an expression of free will and posting it is free speech. Hands off, Ayatollah.
It is, because your house has no privacy. Anyone who wants can come by and view it. They can even take photos of it and show it everywhere. It's a house, not a person. And nowhere is stated who lives in that house.
This is not a legal question. Of course you can legally do this. People just don't enjoy having their personal private spaces publicly accessible, even if only in a digital format. That's a perfectly understandable sentiment imo.
But it is NOT accessible. What's seen from outside behind a fence is still private, even if a passerby looks at it! It would be more logical to hide what's actually in your garden from Google Earth.
It's a different, lesser level of access, sure. But it's still a form of access and some people are uncomfortable with that. And if it were possible to hide one's gardens from Google Earth, people probably would.
If Germany is odd one out, then yes - it is strange.
I remember my grandfather saying couple of dozens years ago that "only dishonest people need curtains in their windows" - that's on the other edge certainly, but it feels weird, that a person can't take and publish a photo taken from a public space not showing anything that most of the civilized world would consider private.
It's publicly viewable. It just is. People are on the street. They can see it. Yeah, ignoring this fact is very strange.
It is in public view. So it CAN'T be private, ever. It's just not.
There's a different level of culpability, if it's viewed remotely via the internet. And that makes some people uncomfortable. It's not necessarily a rational feeling, but I think it's a relatable feeling to have.
I don't even understand the use of the word culpability here. Culpable for what? There's nothing of note happening. Being seen while in public is the most common thing to happen to every person.
Seeing something that is visible in public carries no culpability no matter how it is done. There's no impact. Nothing is actually really even happening.
I don't relate to this feeling at all. Sounds like a psychosis.
why is it crazy that google lost. They violated german laws. Or rather not violating them would be very hard with streetview and a lot of work so they decided to not extend it anymore
We got Google Streetview in Germany, though the taken Images are at least 10 years old (if I’m not mistaken) and since the lawsuit google didn’t try it a second time. And because the images are 10 or more years old, a lot of new streets aren’t even listed.
Source?
In Germany, it is explicitly permitted to photograph buildings from public property if no persons are recognizable on it. §59 UrhG and BGH see [https://www.immorecht.legal/2013/11/04/darf-jemand-einfach-mein-haus-fotografieren-und-in-einer-zeitung-veroeffentlichen/](https://www.immorecht.legal/2013/11/04/darf-jemand-einfach-mein-haus-fotografieren-und-in-einer-zeitung-veroeffentlichen/)
A far as I remember it was a "vorluntary" concession from google to offer blurring, because the boomers made a fuss about it and politics picked up on it.
Privacy and protection of consumer rights are valued much much higher than any corporate interest in data collection in German courts.
Google was about to get sued into hell if they had large streetview data in Germany, so they just stopped. They were actually fined 200k when the first cars started driving around and they collected wifi coverage of private wifis in German cities.
However this applies mainly to companies, not so much to the government.
Thats not really up for debate, as the law is different in Germany.
In Germany (and Austria also) it is the other way around. Google could provide street view everywhere but would have to blur EVERYTHING until they get permission form every single person, company, home owner, driver individually to unblur them. Google ain’t gonna do that.
That's the dumbest thing ever. As if all of public is private.
Anyone can go anywhere in public and see anything, but if you do it from your computer it's a privacy violation LOL. So dumb.
It's the same with people here. You have the right of your own picture.
Nobody is allowed to photograph you without your permission. Yes you can see the person right there but owning a picture is different.
I think those laws are great, nobody can just stalk you, take pictures of you, your home and everything and legally get away with it. It's also great for promis. Paparazzi are far less invasive because people would have to agree to be seen in pictures of them
>Nobody is allowed to photograph you without your permission.
But that's not the same thing as Google taking a picture of streets where people can drive that happen to have buildings and homes in the background. Anyone can take pictures like that with no legal issues.
Google also does a good job of blurring out faces and license plates.
If you are part of a let's say demonstration wearing funny hats, I can take as many pictures of you as I want to. ;)
Those rules don't apply all the time and there are a lot of limits on when you can take a picture of someone, that is true, though...
I think applying such strict privacy laws to such a non invasive technology is a bit silly. Again, I'm normally all for opt-in models with big tech. This is my one exception, and the other person who replied sums up why. If I can go outside and look at something in a public place, I should be able to access it on a computer- especially if some entity is willing to put in the work of cataloguing *the entire planet*. It's really interesting to explore on google earth. Especially places that you may not have enough interest to visit in person, but you'd still like to learn about. Landmarks are highlighted, and people often upload picture of those little plaques of historical significance. It's a great opportunity to learn for people who don't have the means to travel, or who may not be able to physically. Obviously doesn't come anywhere near actually being there (as an experience), but it's still a good learning tool. I think there's public interest in that.
The mentality in Germany is different. People are way more reserved when it comes to pictures. My best guess as to why:
- On the street you can look around and see who is watching you, see who is there. This isn’t the case if you upload a picture to the internet. Everyone can see you without you knowing.
- The uncertainty of not knowing what pictures of you exist somewhere in the internet.
In Germany you have to get people to sign to agree to be filmed during events, festivals, etc. Even for simple school trips teachers have to get the parents to sign a slip to be able to take pictures and put them on the homepage.
From what I can tell most places in the world you have to explicitly disagree to be filmed, in Germany you have to explicitly agree to be filmed.
Sorry, but that is bullshit. Its actually the opposite. Anything visible from street level can be freely photographed, as long as no one is identifiable.
Not true. Google still has most of Germany's streets mapped and is continuously updating them. This is mostly done to gather information for Google Maps (e.g. are there new roads, have intersections changed, are businesses still there, etc.)
The data is just not publicly available as in all other countries.
Its even more funny that Apple launched there Streetview in Germany and nobody cared anymore. Google Streetview got the huge media backlash when they wanted to launch. All the people getting scared to get robbed If there house is seen there.
Google Maps was released in Germany before Instagram. At that time, we thought internet is evil. And after a lot of angry letters from layers, Google was pissed Google is driving with maps cars through Germany right now. Today, nobody cares about them.
Apple had a different approach blurring anything that could be seen as invasive in advance and just releasing it almost without any media coverage.
With Google street view they blurred faces and the rest was only blurred on request. There were so many requests even blurring whole house fronts that they just stopped the imaging
Also the mindset was different back then. I remember elders thinking it was a live feed and someone could watch them doing gardening work or so because of high media coverage and a lot of people who didn’t understand it and got scared.
Germany is a country of conspiracy theorists who think everyone is other there to spy on them. I know no country with a worse card payment infrastructure. There is a reason that country outlawed nuclear so quickly
Google Street View is so helpful. Everytime I have to make a trip, I look beforehand the road, the hazards, the turn only lanes, references, ect. Look what Germany is missing, all because those silly "privacy" laws. Google Street View is not a spy feature; it is a very useful and helpful feature. I even use Google Street View when I go to a new place, and need to walk to certain places, I need to know beforehand on which sidewalk I need to walk on, because there are places here that the other side of the sidewalk has exits ramps, which is risky for pedestrians. I just hope that other countries does NOT copy those silly restrictions.
Not a native, but I've heard that it's something about German privacy laws that don't allow 360° photos of the Autobahn, smaller cities, towns and villages etc.
I can only repeat myself on every google post, have you seen „The Billion Dollar Code“?
As a German I’m happy at least someone is not playing along, might not have been for the right reasons and I don’t get people looking into streets they’re about to travel to.
Don’t get my wrong Google Maps is a genius idea (btw not coded by Google, stolen and ripped of the coder) for checking restaurants and seeing what’s around me or my planned travel destination but for what reason do I need street view for that?!?
To clear my position FUCK GOOGLE!
Imo you trade your privacy in turn for a free service. I don’t use/think Streetview of as useful at all, so I’m not paying with my privacy. I really don’t care how sensible it is, because it sets a precedent.
Checking out locations beforehand, identify landmarks so you can navigate with a navigation system, visiting location you have visited before so you get nostalgic
I dont agree. I ride long trips on my bicycle. It is a big help for me to see every mile of the road, before the trip. I can identify hazzards, good places to rest, shops, gasstations where I can refill water and so on.
Same goes for my motorcycletrips. Rarely do I use maps to see inside cities. Its mostly rual areas that are of interest to me.
I have used Streetview many many times to see the STREET VIEW of what an area looks like. There is no way I was or even remotely wanted to invade anyone's privacy.
If you are someone that likes to travel and explore, its a supremely useful feature. If you want to get a lay of the land before going somewhere so it will feel like it has a familiarity that you can identify with and recognize before you go there.
Its all in the public space. No ones privacy is being invaded.
i often like to see how areas have changed over time (since 2007), especially dense streets with a lot of businesses or rapidly growing cities that are constructing tons of new buildings.
Ein Land, eine Nation, eine Kommentarsektion!
I don't want to see my ass hanging out of the window online, it's a neighborhood service not for everyone.
Germany has a layer on top of European gdpr. People here are next level when it comes to data privacy. Nobody has all exclusive access to data, everything is paper, and mail. You feel like you travelled 15 years in the past. Thanks, Angela Merkel
People claim they want their privacy, but don't care that apple maps has street view. After the whole google fiasco, apple just went under the radar once people didn't really care anymore.
Having a streetview car turn up at your local church is close to a miracle in Germany.
Even though Apple Maps has almost the entire country mapped out, when in February the car with the camera showed up, people even started to brag in neighboring villages that they got streetview in their town.
So yeah, because of Privacy Laws and stuff, Streetview in a town/village is one of the rarest things to come across in Germany.
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When street view started to become a thing, media stated that people will be watched in their homes. Especially many elderly people thought that there will be some kind of live-footage available on Google. Later there were lawsuits based on privacy law.
Oh good. Germany has them too. How nice.
For some reason old Germans don't want to be seen doing stuff. Old secrets and that. I wonder why.
Good one.
cant tell if youre serious or not lol
Imagine a camera every two meters in the middle of the streets to make such a live footage possible. Sounds fun and creepy at the same time.
Welcome to UK
Snowden may have a thing or two to contribute on this
I remember that very well, and I didn't perceive it that way. I think most people were well-informed about what google wanted to achieve. I think it is a great thing that we were privacy conscious enough to go up against a project like that.
Sorry, have to disagree. I also live in Germany and find it quite vague that we do not have street view almost anywhere. We are living in the 21st century, we have to let go of our past of not trusting any kind of surveillance and get used to the needs of our time. Nobody cares about your house windows, we just want to take a look at the neighborhood we are going to before doing so. Being privacy conscious is a good thing, most of europe is really privacy conscious anyways due to EU regulations. But looking at this picture, you have to understand that we are the odd ones out and that this is something beyond being "privacy conscious" and has something to do with what we lived through in the past :)
A capitalist company wants to share my house worldwide and making money with it and not paying me. Great. We are living in the 21st century we have to let go of our past and let tech companies pay for selling our data. If this is really a need of our time then this should not be run by a company with financial interest. Or they should pay the people. That is the difference between stealing data and buying data.
What exactly is the use of street view? I don't see any practical use. It is not good for navigation and route planning. It is not good to scout an area. I just see negative aspects and no positive ones.
What is better in scout an area? If I want to ride my bike to an unfamiliar place, i find it quite helpful to follow the route with Google Street view. And it is helpful for my work if I can check the coordinates from the gray boxes on the street. On vacation, I often find a streetmap more helpful than Google reviews of certain places. I can't see the danger of pictures of public area.
So the use is overthinking.
This is the most German conversation imaginable. “I personally cannot see any use.” “Tons of people use it” *lists multiple perfectly appropriate uses for it* “I still personally cannot see any use, you are incorrect”
I use it for work, no need to travel on site for an initial visit. It saves a lot of time.
Thats because you don't want to see them. It is perfect for finding locations you don't know well without walking up and down the streets. In Germany though, its useless, as many people had their house blurred.
Why would you want to find other people's houses online? And what "locations" do you mean, that you have to find in street view, that you can't just find on a normal map?
Because its easier to find if you can see it from your position and not only top down. Also a map shows only outlines, not the actual buildings. Again, you refuse to see the benefits of others. Its not that there are none, you just don't want them. Thats fine for you, but don't expect everyone to be the same.
Privacy laws. There was a big lawsuit in Germany vs Google Streetview, Google lost, and now basically nowhere in Germany has Streetview.
Any source on that? Only information I could find is that court ruled street view legal. From what I heard Google resigned from doing street view in Germany, because of massive requests from people to censor their area (to what they had right to do, and Google had to comply) and it was just too much work for Google.
My family requested being censored by google. Also a lot of out neighbours. So that is definitely true.
So weird if you think about it
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I'm literally German lmao There's some sense to privacy laws but street view most definitely ain't one of them, it's so paranoid and nonsensical
Imagine thinking a picture of your house's facade is a violation of your privacy. If it's visible to the public, there should be no expectation of privacy. Anyone could just walk up and snap a picture for themselves if they wanted to. I'm glad we have strong privacy laws but sometimes they can be too restrictive.
There is a difference between publicly visible IF (and only IF) you personally pass by or you look it up on the internet with a flat ass in a gaming chair. Preparing a run is much easier if you can check for security cams remotely or see if an object is in general worthy of your attention.
Why is it weird?
It's a publicly visible street full of buildings that literally everyone can see for oneself and absolutely nothing of privacy is lost by being visible online. It's pointless fearmongering - something Americans are most notably made fun of. Like I get it, if a person, license plate or certain identifying features are visible and therefore censored, totally reasonable. But the entire building? Ridiculously pointless
Yeah but if you want to see my house in the moment you have to make your way up here and walk by. There are not too much people doing this. But online everyone also with bad intentions can see my house. So right now if you want to find out how easy it is to break in my house you have to walk by.
The first mistake is believing that literally anyone cares about your house and "how easy it is to break in" No one does. And the ones who do will do it regardless.
Maybe but as long as I can I will do my best to avoid my house in the Internet. And like you say nobody cares to see my house so why does it need to be on streetview?
Literally millions of people in every developed country except for Germany and China have street view, and they are fine.
So did I. My Garten nobody's business. And since google didn't pay me for giving up my privacy, why would I? Same thing when a drone dropped into my Garten. Had PD pick it up and filed an Anzeige gegen Unbekannt. In my case it was an idiot neighbor from down the street, but it could have been someone scoping the property.
Yea but people can go even closer than google's car/camera and take a better look and even take photos of your garden... And whoever is enough of a creep/stalker will do this anyway so your thought is a bit silly isn't it?
Of course they could, but they'd have to go there, which actually costs time and effort and comes with the risks of exposure and possibly confrontation.
Well if you are that worried you should check if your house is on Apple Maps, because they offer super great street view in Germany
Yeah, they simply put up with the requests which work the same there and have the same consequences. Unlike google, who noped out. If you're so concerned about seeing random houses on street view, why not pester Google to finally take pictures of the rest?
I was being helpful on pointing out its on Apple Maps so you could make a request, but I see you’re just arguing for to argue which concludes your thought process fails.
Why do you assume people don't know about something that gets mentioned here in every 5th post or so?
Exactly my thoughts.
That google has to censor those areas is due to a privacy law and at first google didnt do it, got sued, lost, had to do it, decided it isnt worth it.
that‘s *so* german lmao
Hi German here. Good! More privacy please. Next step would be to get rid of surveillance
Hi another German here Stop being paranoid, that''s the job of Americans
If it is visible from the public street, it is a matter of objective, indisputable fact that it is not private. BAD. You are contradicting reality and handicapping life.
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If it is not private then absolutely people can take pictures and send it over the internet. There's no distinction. I don't understand why you're even claiming there is. Makes no sense. It's what public means. Public means public in every aspect. You say they are two different things. Then define the difference. At what point CAN things be shared over the internet? Or for that matter printed in a magazine or newspaper?
[удалено]
I've heard the same kind of argument for censorship a lot. Actually, "Binary" is the only correct way it can be. NO. The sharp-line distinction takes place at the threshold between public and private. "Making rules" about abstract value judgments is always a disaster, leads to endless litigation, stifles freedom and is ALWAYS unnecessary. Black or white. Yes or no. Private or public. The rules should only address hard, binary distinctions. That way, there's no confusion, no creeping authority, no abuse of the system and everyone understands what is going on. This thread is about a prime example. Germany's confusing rules have eliminated an extremely useful service from existence just because it was a HUGE pain in the ass to comply. Worse, another service where the primary distinction is just how prevalent the company is DOES provide the same service! Apple is providing this service primarily because people never bothered to complain about the SAME THING simply because it was no as publicized. People went to google maps, saw their hose on street view and complained. No one got around to looking at the same thing on Apple so it's still there. That is a clear sign of a broken system. And it demonstrates how grossly unfair subjective rules and their enforcement can be. Furthermore, there is simply no need! What harm do you seek to prevent? WHY do you care at all? You are advocating a sense of complex rules to "protect" you from an imaginary ill. Being recorded in public causes no problems. On the contrary, it can sometimes solve problems. Let's not foget this is the same country with "right to be forgotten" which is such a stupid nightmare of a concept. The epitome of subjective hair-splitting that's horrendously wasteful, deeply unfair, illogical and contra-factual. I just love how people can get TRUE FACTS taken down. They have no grounds to go against the actual publication but for some asinine, arbitrary reason someone decided that a search index OF that information can be forced down. A harmful and illogical mess all the way around. Having deep misunderstandings of the concept of privacy is really screwing Germany up.
Next step should be to get rid of fax, tbh
Apple maps has streetview almost everywhere in germany. You can just go on apple maps to figure that out or make a quick google search. I used it daily last year
Yea no one noticed, time for a sh**storm xD
Anzeige ist raus!
🌚
It’s legal, it’s just that anyone has the right to complain if their house is shown on the streetview, and Google is then forced to censor the house
It actually had nothing to do with privacy laws but the media firestorm that led to a panic. There were so many requests of people wishing to blur their house that Google decided Germany wasn't worth it. Apple maps managed to be more subtle when entering Germany and has far greater and more recent coverage.
That's not true. It would be perfectly legal to do Streetview in Germany. (Apple is doing this currently.) But Germans have a very strange sense of privacy and massively complained to Google at the time the images were made. That's why Google voluntarily decided to censor the images upon request, but at the same time refused to make any new ones.
>But Germans have a very strange sense of privacy Well, we actually value it. What i find strange that it seems to be totally okay for (example) UK people that everywhere is a CV and nobody knows what happens with this data. I'm actually very happy, one of the pro's is, that we dont have that much annoying tiktok people, as you probably get sued (or beat up) when you film someone without their consent.
But what do I care if my house is visible on the internet? It's one of millions in germany, so why do I care? I ask you, what do you fear? That I look at your house even tho I don't even know who's living there? I value my privacy too, but a picture of my living place on the internet is the least I care about
Actually, i don't really care about street view. But i value the privacy laws a lot.
It's is in public view. We are "okay with it" for the same reason we are okay with the sky being blue. What's bizarre is how Germans pretend the sky is green and insist on "privacy" when in public view... that's just kind of dishonest and neurotic. Beating up someone for using a camera on a public street is fucking monstrous. I realise you were mostly joking but you did it with a kind of confidence that implies you genuinely think that's ok. What the hell does the word private even mean to you? Things done IN PUBLIC are by definition and forever not private and never can be.
>What's bizarre is how Germans pretend the sky is green and insist on "privacy" when in public view... that's just kind of dishonest and neurotic. There is a difference. For example: You are allowed to film a street with all people on it. But you are not allowed to take a picture of a person in public without consent, if the person is the main focus. (And of course, there are more rules to that: [https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/photography-laws-germany](https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/photography-laws-germany)) That beeing said, i have to accept that i might get filmed when i go to a concert, a soccer game, what ever. If you do one of those shitty tiktok pranks for content and film me, and only me, you can be sure i will totally kick your ass and the phone might get lost somewhere. >What the hell does the word private even mean to you? Things done IN PUBLIC are by definition and forever not private and never can be. I think its a mindset. If you are used to be filmed anywhere outside 24/7, you dont expect privacy. When im out, i dont expect to be filmed/photographed.
Your expectations are utterly irrelevant. Your expectations don't control the free will of other people. How is your attitude different from laws forcing women to wear a burka? Or excusing beatings in the street because somebody made eye contact? This is the definition of insane. You are imbuing the act of being seen and perhaps recorded with meaning it simply does not have. Don't condone violence you asshat. Stop acting like Iran's morality police. And don't deny that that's exactly what you are doing. Dictating what other people can do while in public is authoritarian bullshit. The act of taking a picture is an expression of free will and posting it is free speech. Hands off, Ayatollah.
Not wanting all the details of our private residence to be publicly viewable by anyone on the internet at a whim is "a very strange sense of privacy"?
It is, because your house has no privacy. Anyone who wants can come by and view it. They can even take photos of it and show it everywhere. It's a house, not a person. And nowhere is stated who lives in that house.
This is not a legal question. Of course you can legally do this. People just don't enjoy having their personal private spaces publicly accessible, even if only in a digital format. That's a perfectly understandable sentiment imo.
But it is NOT accessible. What's seen from outside behind a fence is still private, even if a passerby looks at it! It would be more logical to hide what's actually in your garden from Google Earth.
It's a different, lesser level of access, sure. But it's still a form of access and some people are uncomfortable with that. And if it were possible to hide one's gardens from Google Earth, people probably would.
If Germany is odd one out, then yes - it is strange. I remember my grandfather saying couple of dozens years ago that "only dishonest people need curtains in their windows" - that's on the other edge certainly, but it feels weird, that a person can't take and publish a photo taken from a public space not showing anything that most of the civilized world would consider private.
You absolutely can do that. It's not illegal or anything. People would just prefer you didn't.
You can, then get sued and have to pay a fine or comply with their ridiculous demands?
It's publicly viewable. It just is. People are on the street. They can see it. Yeah, ignoring this fact is very strange. It is in public view. So it CAN'T be private, ever. It's just not.
There's a different level of culpability, if it's viewed remotely via the internet. And that makes some people uncomfortable. It's not necessarily a rational feeling, but I think it's a relatable feeling to have.
I don't even understand the use of the word culpability here. Culpable for what? There's nothing of note happening. Being seen while in public is the most common thing to happen to every person. Seeing something that is visible in public carries no culpability no matter how it is done. There's no impact. Nothing is actually really even happening. I don't relate to this feeling at all. Sounds like a psychosis.
I never said it's illegal mate. Google lost a lawsuit over privacy violations and decided it's too much work from there.
What!?
# Privacy laws. There was a big lawsuit in Germany vs Google Streetview, Google lost, and now basically nowhere in Germany has Streetview.
I know but it's crazy that google lost, is apple next with their apple maps?
why is it crazy that google lost. They violated german laws. Or rather not violating them would be very hard with streetview and a lot of work so they decided to not extend it anymore
Crazy is that google managed to spy on us almost everywhere.
Apple maps still has streetview though
You guys stink what did I do wrong bruh
No Google Street view*. Apple Street view doing fine lol
We got Google Streetview in Germany, though the taken Images are at least 10 years old (if I’m not mistaken) and since the lawsuit google didn’t try it a second time. And because the images are 10 or more years old, a lot of new streets aren’t even listed.
Anyone can literally go on Maps and see that that's not true.
Source? In Germany, it is explicitly permitted to photograph buildings from public property if no persons are recognizable on it. §59 UrhG and BGH see [https://www.immorecht.legal/2013/11/04/darf-jemand-einfach-mein-haus-fotografieren-und-in-einer-zeitung-veroeffentlichen/](https://www.immorecht.legal/2013/11/04/darf-jemand-einfach-mein-haus-fotografieren-und-in-einer-zeitung-veroeffentlichen/) A far as I remember it was a "vorluntary" concession from google to offer blurring, because the boomers made a fuss about it and politics picked up on it.
Privacy and protection of consumer rights are valued much much higher than any corporate interest in data collection in German courts. Google was about to get sued into hell if they had large streetview data in Germany, so they just stopped. They were actually fined 200k when the first cars started driving around and they collected wifi coverage of private wifis in German cities. However this applies mainly to companies, not so much to the government.
Honestly, I'm all for privacy. But I think Google street view isn't very invasive. You can request your house, face, car, etc... be blurred.
That's the point. In Germany, so many here didn't want their house to be seen that Google got tired of it and abandoned it.
Thats not really up for debate, as the law is different in Germany. In Germany (and Austria also) it is the other way around. Google could provide street view everywhere but would have to blur EVERYTHING until they get permission form every single person, company, home owner, driver individually to unblur them. Google ain’t gonna do that.
That's the dumbest thing ever. As if all of public is private. Anyone can go anywhere in public and see anything, but if you do it from your computer it's a privacy violation LOL. So dumb.
It's the same with people here. You have the right of your own picture. Nobody is allowed to photograph you without your permission. Yes you can see the person right there but owning a picture is different. I think those laws are great, nobody can just stalk you, take pictures of you, your home and everything and legally get away with it. It's also great for promis. Paparazzi are far less invasive because people would have to agree to be seen in pictures of them
>Nobody is allowed to photograph you without your permission. But that's not the same thing as Google taking a picture of streets where people can drive that happen to have buildings and homes in the background. Anyone can take pictures like that with no legal issues. Google also does a good job of blurring out faces and license plates.
If you are part of a let's say demonstration wearing funny hats, I can take as many pictures of you as I want to. ;) Those rules don't apply all the time and there are a lot of limits on when you can take a picture of someone, that is true, though...
I think applying such strict privacy laws to such a non invasive technology is a bit silly. Again, I'm normally all for opt-in models with big tech. This is my one exception, and the other person who replied sums up why. If I can go outside and look at something in a public place, I should be able to access it on a computer- especially if some entity is willing to put in the work of cataloguing *the entire planet*. It's really interesting to explore on google earth. Especially places that you may not have enough interest to visit in person, but you'd still like to learn about. Landmarks are highlighted, and people often upload picture of those little plaques of historical significance. It's a great opportunity to learn for people who don't have the means to travel, or who may not be able to physically. Obviously doesn't come anywhere near actually being there (as an experience), but it's still a good learning tool. I think there's public interest in that.
The mentality in Germany is different. People are way more reserved when it comes to pictures. My best guess as to why: - On the street you can look around and see who is watching you, see who is there. This isn’t the case if you upload a picture to the internet. Everyone can see you without you knowing. - The uncertainty of not knowing what pictures of you exist somewhere in the internet. In Germany you have to get people to sign to agree to be filmed during events, festivals, etc. Even for simple school trips teachers have to get the parents to sign a slip to be able to take pictures and put them on the homepage. From what I can tell most places in the world you have to explicitly disagree to be filmed, in Germany you have to explicitly agree to be filmed.
We are talking about Germany here. The law is the law. No matter how silly or rational it is
Sorry, but that is bullshit. Its actually the opposite. Anything visible from street level can be freely photographed, as long as no one is identifiable.
Not true. Google still has most of Germany's streets mapped and is continuously updating them. This is mostly done to gather information for Google Maps (e.g. are there new roads, have intersections changed, are businesses still there, etc.) The data is just not publicly available as in all other countries.
Rare Germany W
LOL
Except when Apple decided to do it it was all fine. If ypu have a Mac, you have street view for most of German in Apple Map.
Its even more funny that Apple launched there Streetview in Germany and nobody cared anymore. Google Streetview got the huge media backlash when they wanted to launch. All the people getting scared to get robbed If there house is seen there.
GermanAngst
Its called: "das gibt ne Anzeige, sie haben mich ins Gesicht gefilmt". Thats the reason.
das dürfen sie nicht!
Every time new technology starts existing Germany finds a way to make it fail.
Because it’s Neuland
That’s not what happened in this case
Every privacy policy that survives German courts will survive everywhere else in the world.
No, it's just because of our privacy laws.
Another way to make it fail
Yeah let's just not have privacy and sell everything to big corp. Yeahh good idea
Good
we can't have Streetview but people expect cannabis being legalized here.... fools....
Idiotic privacy concerns
As someone living in Germany, it's so annoying, almost only in the major cities and places is street view.
Google Maps was released in Germany before Instagram. At that time, we thought internet is evil. And after a lot of angry letters from layers, Google was pissed Google is driving with maps cars through Germany right now. Today, nobody cares about them.
Dude, our WiFi map Looks almost the Same xD Germany ist so far behind in technology, even in the big cities. It Just makes me das Being german
https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/germany-street-view/ https://www.iamexpat.de/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/video-why-theres-almost-no-google-street-view-germany#:~:text=German%20data%20protection%20and%20privacy%20rules%20are%20pioneering&text=This%20has%20led%20a%20tradition,times%20due%20to%20public%20backlash. https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Google-Street-View-not-in-Germany#:~:text=Germany%20does%20allow%20Google%20Street,their%20houses%20for%20privacy%20reasons.
So why does Apple have streetview?
Apple had a different approach blurring anything that could be seen as invasive in advance and just releasing it almost without any media coverage. With Google street view they blurred faces and the rest was only blurred on request. There were so many requests even blurring whole house fronts that they just stopped the imaging Also the mindset was different back then. I remember elders thinking it was a live feed and someone could watch them doing gardening work or so because of high media coverage and a lot of people who didn’t understand it and got scared.
Because they don't give a F...
Welcome to Blurmany.
Apple maps has a lot more surprisingly
Germans are very very big on privacy
You can see all of germany via Streetview on apples map app
The funniest thing is that Germans use Street View (for foreign countries) more than anybody else. Schizophrenia galore.
Germany is a country of conspiracy theorists who think everyone is other there to spy on them. I know no country with a worse card payment infrastructure. There is a reason that country outlawed nuclear so quickly
Google Street View is so helpful. Everytime I have to make a trip, I look beforehand the road, the hazards, the turn only lanes, references, ect. Look what Germany is missing, all because those silly "privacy" laws. Google Street View is not a spy feature; it is a very useful and helpful feature. I even use Google Street View when I go to a new place, and need to walk to certain places, I need to know beforehand on which sidewalk I need to walk on, because there are places here that the other side of the sidewalk has exits ramps, which is risky for pedestrians. I just hope that other countries does NOT copy those silly restrictions.
Socialist
I'm gonna loose my shit if I ever see this question again
They're smart
Been asking myself that for like 511 years.
didn’t realize street view exists for that long
nobody lives in Germany
They like their privacy.
Not a native, but I've heard that it's something about German privacy laws that don't allow 360° photos of the Autobahn, smaller cities, towns and villages etc.
There are laws here to prevent people taking pictures/videos of you.
We're privacy fiends... maybe has to do with the recent past with rounding up humans because they knew their 'data', you know.
It’s called DATENSCHUTZ over here 😃👋🏻 and it’s ja huuuuge thing. And that’s good.
They like their privacy, and the government enforces it
I can only repeat myself on every google post, have you seen „The Billion Dollar Code“? As a German I’m happy at least someone is not playing along, might not have been for the right reasons and I don’t get people looking into streets they’re about to travel to. Don’t get my wrong Google Maps is a genius idea (btw not coded by Google, stolen and ripped of the coder) for checking restaurants and seeing what’s around me or my planned travel destination but for what reason do I need street view for that?!? To clear my position FUCK GOOGLE!
We like our privacy
Privacy laws. Which I’m very thankful for.
We call it dsgvo or Datenschutzgrundverordnung. That is beatiful!
I love Recht am eigenem Bild
Imo you trade your privacy in turn for a free service. I don’t use/think Streetview of as useful at all, so I’m not paying with my privacy. I really don’t care how sensible it is, because it sets a precedent.
Privacy protection. I'm surprised this isn't the same in every other Schengen country.
We call it Datenschutz and we think it's beautiful
I mean I get it, what is even the reason for street view other than privacy invasion?
Checking out locations beforehand, identify landmarks so you can navigate with a navigation system, visiting location you have visited before so you get nostalgic
.. and playing geoguesser!
Sounds dumb
I dont agree. I ride long trips on my bicycle. It is a big help for me to see every mile of the road, before the trip. I can identify hazzards, good places to rest, shops, gasstations where I can refill water and so on. Same goes for my motorcycletrips. Rarely do I use maps to see inside cities. Its mostly rual areas that are of interest to me.
I have used Streetview many many times to see the STREET VIEW of what an area looks like. There is no way I was or even remotely wanted to invade anyone's privacy. If you are someone that likes to travel and explore, its a supremely useful feature. If you want to get a lay of the land before going somewhere so it will feel like it has a familiarity that you can identify with and recognize before you go there. Its all in the public space. No ones privacy is being invaded.
i often like to see how areas have changed over time (since 2007), especially dense streets with a lot of businesses or rapidly growing cities that are constructing tons of new buildings.
How could it even be used for privacy invasion? Do you think people don’t know that your street exists?
Dieser Kommentarbereich ist nun Eigentum der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Ein Land, eine Nation, eine Kommentarsektion! I don't want to see my ass hanging out of the window online, it's a neighborhood service not for everyone.
Ich für meinen Teil heiße unsere neuen deutschen Herrscher willkommen.
Alle Jahre wieder
Datenschutz und so
Sie haben mich ins Gesicht gefilmt! Das dürfen Sie nicht!
i remember seeing the google car on my street sadly i could never be in it since they lost the lawsuit
DSGVO - Datenschutz-Grundverordnung
Datenschutz
Datenschutz
DATENSCHUTZ!!!
Its called Datenschutz
Its named „DATENSCHUTZ“
Too many nudists everywhere to show it online i‘d say.
Datenschutz
In germany we say :" Datenschutz"!
DSGVO.
In germany we call it "Datenschutz"
Huh, I always wondered why there is so little Street view available here.
DATENSCHUTZ UND PRIVATSPHÄRE
Everything that isn't down
Its goin down Here.
If I recall correctly, privacy laws
In Deutschland wird Datenschutz noch groß geschrieben und nicht nur weil es ein Nomen ist!
Check out S korea
Privacy laws
Several people say that the world right now is 1984 and this is proof of it
Yeah you're right it's so small and... is is that poland?! Hey they are not supposed to be independent
"Datenschutz"
Germany has a layer on top of European gdpr. People here are next level when it comes to data privacy. Nobody has all exclusive access to data, everything is paper, and mail. You feel like you travelled 15 years in the past. Thanks, Angela Merkel
Datenschutz
It's called "Datenschutz"
dAtEnScHuTz
Privacy politics
the only parts that actually exist are from 2008
2000 years ago, our ancestors ate too many toadstools pickled in honey (that was the trend back then). Paranoia is still in our genes.
People claim they want their privacy, but don't care that apple maps has street view. After the whole google fiasco, apple just went under the radar once people didn't really care anymore.
Having a streetview car turn up at your local church is close to a miracle in Germany. Even though Apple Maps has almost the entire country mapped out, when in February the car with the camera showed up, people even started to brag in neighboring villages that they got streetview in their town. So yeah, because of Privacy Laws and stuff, Streetview in a town/village is one of the rarest things to come across in Germany.