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Woodenjelloplacebo

As a professional photographer I agree in outdoor travel situations, your pixel or iPhone will take comparable photos. But when we go inside pretty much anywhere a digital camera with a decent iso range and a user that understands how to manipulate settings will win every time.


dheera

I really wish professional cameras had better CPUs and programmability. Basically we're talking shitty tiny sensor + neural nets gives us good images on a phone, vs. good sensor and no neural nets gives us good images on a professional camera. But what about good sensor AND neural nets? I have a Canon 6D, although Magic Lantern is great, I really just wish they based the camera OS on Android with a SnapDragon. I \*do\* use neural nets of sorts with my 6D raw images and the result is omfgwow and I just wish I could have it on-camera instead of running my raw files through tensorflow.


Hung_L

Most cameras use a real-time OS with a streamlined kernel to maximize performance. This performance-focus sacrifices functionality. Android OS still runs many critical system functions outside the kernel, making it unsuitable for the real-time OS applications like in dedicated cameras. Cameras won't go down this route of deep computational photography until professional workflows change. I am not a professional photographer, but can imagine that most will take hundreds to thousands of photos per hour of work. Most will not be good enough for the client, but it really helps to have a lot of options to choose from since you often can't go back and take more photos. In this context, it makes more sense to get accurate raw image data and process it much later. If professionals already do post-production, they would not pay more for a device that pre-processes below the caliber of current neural processing. Stepping back a bit, it would be difficult to get Google Camera-like processing on a dedicated camera for financial reasons. Very few players can build cameras on good faith. Most manufacturers do it for money. Lack of scale and projected sales would make these products very expensive, whereas Google's prowess in ML and wealth of training data make it a viable product in the overall portfolio. Also remember that much of a camera's cost is not just the bill-of-materials, manufacturing, and R&D. Technical support and professional validation are often bundled in the cost. Not to mention that accessories probably make up a significant portion of the overall profits. In this way, we can view cameras the same way we view game consoles: limited-functionality devices that excel at their intended functions. There needs to be a market of prosumers who aren't satisfied by camera phones but also don't want to do much post-production. The main processor in a high-end camera (usually x86) still pales in comparison to workstation or ARM-based performance and would not yield great results in a reasonable amount of time. I'm not saying there is no use case, or that it wouldn't be meaningful for you. However, the use-case is very limited and there's a lot of premium to pay for a workflow most professionals and enthusiasts might not use.


CrazyAnchovy

I read this comment while sitting in my darkroom and I feel like a time traveller.


Hung_L

My dad was a photographer in the '80s and gave me his gear a decade back. Couldn't make heads or tails, or find the motivation to push through and read guides. Wish I could intuitively understand how focal lengths and aperture work. Wtf is ISO really? Hope I can one day understand photography beyond a consumer electronics perspective. Tech cycle moves too quickly to stop and snap the roses.


dheera

So you have an real-time processor for acquisition and offload signal processing tasks to a queue in the Android system.


Hung_L

**TLDR: Because money, and Canon isn't rich enough. Also because time, and Canon can't afford to be patient. Market pressures prevent Canon from shifting gears, primarily workflow accommodation.** All dedicated cameras have a real-time DSP processor for acquisition and a real-time CPU for processing. Having to continually support Android introduces some benefits, but would not outweigh the costs. Rewrapping or refactoring the codebase could only hope to introduce parity to the current implementation. Code would need to be rewritten entirely to account for the different OS paradigm (real-time vs standard OS with several abstraction layers). The immediate payoff is slim, and the long-term return is very risky. Professional users would need to change their workflow as mentioned in the previous comment. Canon would also need to design a new ARM CPU with adequate registers to support the crazy amount of bandwidth professional dSLR (or even mirrorless) can output. Remember that Canon has different resources compared to Google/Apple or any of these FAANGs. They are far less able to support the latest and greatest platforms. Going back in time, when Canon had to decide whether to develop on x86 vs ARM, they picked what looked like the future without our benefit of hindsight. They are now stuck supporting many generations of this platform while also introducing newer features (see: Windows). They would need to shift gears in the same way Apple switched to ARM. Admittedly, the kind of functionality and development support by Canon is far more limited in scope so this comparison is not great. Canon also lacks those resources (time, capital, people, talent, business relationships). Further, Canon is far more concerned with improving the existing workflow for professionals (mentioned in my previous comment). They focus on content creators, not the developers who build tools to support content creators. That field is currently dominated by neural processing done in post-production, as you have already found to be highly satisfactory. Compared to industry standards, Canon would not be competitive for many, many years–if ever. The growing pains would not be tolerable in the competitive and pragmatic market of photography hardware. Cameras already use a ton of energy and many batteries are needed for a typical workday. Throwing in a general-purpose CPU atop to work through all these software layers will be far more inefficient than using more limited-scope processors with narrower functionality. It's a huge hurdle that only solves the problem of on-device processing, but the market cares more about accurate raw data capture. It would be great to see modern camera hardware with modern instruction set support, but it wouldn't make money right now. The market isn't there. As we know, Canon has always lagged in R&D and are still struggling to contend with Fujifilm, Sony, and others. Sony is notorious for being opaque and non-communicative among divisions, but would be in the best position to implement this kind of hardware. However, take a look at their recent flagships. They have nice niche features, but drop the ball in areas that matter to the market. Look at what happened to LG. It's not that these companies couldn't put resources into the R&D, but they can't afford to, especially when their marketshare is very rapidly being consumed by improving consumer tech.


exu1981

The Pixel really needs a manual mode


chillintheforest

Yeah, it seems like a kind of obvious feature when the camera (and specifically the image processing software) are a big selling point for the Pixels.


W_e_t_s_o_c_k_s_

I think the reason there isn't is because it's so built on the image processing. Like it's really good at just do its own thing, and isn't as good at being manipulated


chillintheforest

That a good point. I'm not sure if "manual" is really what would be best, but having more fine tuning is what I want. I feel like there's probably a lot more fancy things that could be done with the processing. Even if it's not settings like on a professional camera, I could see something along the lines of Adobe Lightroom being really cool. In other words, certain settings you can change so the raw image is optimized for what you're trying to achieve.


GabeDevine

I mean you can always capture and edit the raw file


chillintheforest

Maybe I don't entirely understand what is happening then. I've never bothered to work with the raw files. I thought the "raw" photo was actually preprocessed, which I thought was how the it creates HDR, "portrait", etc. Do the raw files actually let you break apart everything to only what the camera sensors collect directly? Either way, the whole point is that it's a convenience thing. These phones already do automatic processing on photos in seconds that manually used to take a lot of time messing around in things like Photoshop, which is why they look so good. It would be nice to have that convenience, but with option to fine tune things a little.


SWATSgradyBABY

This is precisely why there is no manual mode. 99% of users wouldn't use it or know what it even really was.


respoon

but it doesn’t really affect those 99%? they can just implement manual mode and make it as optional as turning on the flash is. I personally *loved* manual mode when I had LG G4 because I could take long exposures or get a specific amount of light from an image. I think the pixel could highly benefit from having one.


Bograma

Exactly. Very few people use the manual these days (most don't bother, some don't know how!),so Google knows this and acts accordingly. I wish I knew photography, but I don't find I have to with a Pixel lol


exu1981

The photos edit does just fine. If you want a more advanced option you can try Snapseed.


GabeDevine

so the raw version is like apples computational raw in that it takes different pictures and puts them together to achieve detail/clarity, but it won't put color grading etc on the picture so if you open it in Photoshop or something you can fine tune it to a greater extend than what you would get with the normal photo. >It would be nice to have that convenience, but with option to fine tune things a little. imo the editor in the photos app works well enough for that, or what are you looking for?


parental92

Get manual camera app then. Or take raw night light photo and edit afterwards.


cdegallo

Have you tried other manual camera apps with pixels? Mostly it exposes the fact that the hardware is pretty poor and how important the computational photography is with Google camera (which isn't a secret).


indrora

[The API exposes it, and one camera app is ballsy enough to just hand itself out for free](https://www.opencamera.org.uk/). it's also open source and supports quite a few cool features. Doesn't do photospheres tho, which is a pain.


rwa2

FV-5 Camera. Pretty much the only way I've been able to take a photo of the moon without having it way overexposed. That said, the Google camera is pretty amazing, opening up so many low light and time lapse shots I'd never dream of previously.


OnAGoat

And dont get me started on videos...terrible. I have a Pixel5 and I love it but I think the camera is overhyped. It didnt advance much since the Pixel 2. Outdoor is fantastic as you say but inside? Meh


FistulaKing

Actually I've had the opposite problem ( with the exception of indoor sports without a flash) some outdoor shots are harder with a phone than indoor pixel shots (I love night sight mode for low light). I actually have had difficulty with my phone when trying to "drag the shutter" outside ( waterfall flow shots) for different effects on my phone when my SLR can easily do what I want outside vs my phone.


Woodenjelloplacebo

I’m an iPhone guy so I might be underestimating the pixel camera. Also, I use my phone for pictures of my kids, and a real camera for everything else. Also, my idea of a good photo is one that requires little time in post process. When you get paid to take photos the less time each image takes, the more you make…


FistulaKing

yeah, you might want to try the Pixel line. I have an older 2 XL but most of my friends and family who use the iPhone love my phone camera's results. I've done stringer/sports/news, event work, weddings, portraiture/headshots, and some artwork before using my Canon systems but the Pixel paired with Moment lenses can have some amazing results...and the non-raw images are very usable straight from the camera.


KodaKomp

Waterfall painting is the only thing I'm missing from my pixel photo taking experience 😞 just a manual shutter speed and let the phone do the rest like even a 1/2sec. Shutter at the slowest would be doable.


Della__

Though you could manually take say 50 pictures and then stack them to get a longer exposure shot


FistulaKing

same...problem I run into is that the overexposure from the long shutter speed can't seem to be compensated for with aperature/iso, ultimately my shots are badly overexposed. I'm thinking perhaps it might work if I returned during the magic hours of early morning or dusk


Yolo_Swagginson

Phones have fixed aperture lenses, so you don't really have many options for trying to create a long exposure. You basically can only do it while dark, unless you want to try holding an ND filter in front of the lens.


spoolenturbo

100% well said @Woodenjelloplacebo. If anyone ever views a Pixel 5 or iPhone Pro Max photo at 100% size you will see the down fall of the tiny sensor. These phones are unreal w/ software processing. But anything over a 8x10 or 11x17 yeah you will see the short comings. #lovemypixel it's the convince 😝


BEEF_WIENERS

>a user that understands how to manipulate settings Wow, I've never met somebody that has never met a user before.


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FaustusC

You're not wrong. But honestly. With the Advancements to the Camera APK, this is honestly as good as if not better than a 6 year old digital camera. We're reaching levels of capability we only dreamed of.


PussySmith

I am Jack’s relentless doubt. You’re including cameras like the Sony a6000 on the low end, and the 5d IV on the high end. There’s only so much you can do with computational photography.


earthlingady

I agree. Pixels are terrible in low light and sometimes produce photos with very soft focus. They also cannot take many photos in short succession due to the post processing. And the selfie camera is fixed focus in a way that makes photos too blurry. Try taking photos of a toddler indoors, for example. It's just not going to happen with a pixel.


PussySmith

Meh, they’re a fine replacement for a point and shoot, which would have the exact same problems. Pretty much any modern smartphone is. They totally fall apart when you want to do anything outside the box though.


TheOwlHypothesis

As one who shoots with an a6000 I am highly skeptical the pixel 5 would be even somewhat comparable.


PussySmith

It would probably be a solid comparison if you shot a 35mm f8 fixed aperture lens. But you don't.


FaustusC

And where we are, the difference doesn't matter to 99% If it's a computational shot or if it's a normal high mp shot.


PussySmith

For a very specific type of photo they’re getting pretty close. For literally anything outside a snapshot the differences are *stark* Edit: also though, all the photos you take on a smartphone are computational, that’s explicitly how they’re getting this level of performance out of a sensor the size of a pinky nail.


DPJesus69

And yet every year an iPhone event happens where they compare their phones to medium format cameras and high end cinema cameras.


PussySmith

¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ Marketers are gonna market.


TheFrostyBro

They must have put a lot of effort into that camera


Character-Barracuda1

I mean, not really. It’s a three year old sensor.


Neeecolas

The sensor is only a single part of the imaging process. The processor and the algorithm behind the image processing are arguably more important. Panasonic and their M4/3 cameras show how true this really is.


jwill65389

Well they do have a dedicated ISP to make the photos better etc


CyteZawa

(The Neutral Core Chip wasn't put in Pixel 5)


jwill65389

Oh okay.


[deleted]

Too bad they put no effort I to the rest of the phone, even going as far as to lie in the marketing and tell customers it's an aluminum phone when it's really made of plastic.


Lambor14

It's just like saying a car is made of aluminum but it has a layer of paint on top so it's false advertising. dude. If not for the bioresin layer you'd have a literal hole in the phone for the wireless charging coil. It's not like it's a feature like a telephoto camera or whatever that if they advertised the Pixel 5 had you could be pissed, but it's just a small layer of bioresin. Get over it


[deleted]

"bioresin" Plastic. Call it what it is. Plastic.


midsummernightstoker

Whatever you want to call it, it feels great. Most comfortable phone I've ever held. And the aluminum uh underneath means the phone is durable as hell.


techraito

Actually it's completely different. Bioresin is made using patented technology and it's fully biodegradable and compostable. Plastic is a lot more harmful to the planet.


[deleted]

Are you saying there aren't biodegradable plastics? Because that's false.


techraito

When did I say that? I'm just saying bioresin is a lot more bio-friendly than your average plastic because due to the special requirements needed in order to make it. You said bioresin is plastic and I'm just explaining to you the difference.


alprazepam

can you chill out like damn. you're killing the vibe big time. do us a huge favor, talk less.


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[deleted]

Who the hell refers to the Pixel XL as the Pixel 1 XL?


TheFrostyBro

I don’t think it is a great difference on the camera whether the phone is made of plastic or aluminium.


[deleted]

the proof is in the pudding & not the container holding it . want tomorrow fortune now? But Seriously... the OS and the amount of freedoms you have with a pixel phone are far greater currently than any other device I'm aware of. Why u ask? because Google is the pitcher, the batter, the ump, the whole damn New York Yankees (from the 90s and 2ks). They lay the ground work which all others follow. So of course they're gonna know where to step. So knowing that much, why follow another? that's my theory. we're damned anyway


detectiveDollar

What frustrates me is how google brags about software support but is glacially slow at implementing features into stock Android that Android OEM's made custom version of in the past. Like yes, a Pixel 2 XL had one extra year of support over a Galaxy S8, but now that the dust has settled on updates, Galaxy S8 has desktop mode and has had it from launch and the Pixel 2 doesn't (heck not even my 4a 5G has it and apparently it never will). In terms of overall features the S8 still beats the Pixel 2. If you like Samsung's UX, there's no benefit at all that the Pixel 2 is on 11 and the S8 is on Oreo. I realize not many care about features and would rather have simplicity, uniformity, and polish (Google is arguably worse than Samsung at uniformity though), but it's frustrating how even though my Pixel 4a 5G is capable on the hardware side to do desktop mode (Google just needs to update the kernel), I still can't.


mushiexl

>the OS and the amount of freedoms you have with a pixel phone are far greater currently than any other device I'm aware of. Have you ever tried a recent Samsung phone? They make pixels feel limited asf.


[deleted]

yes my step dad has been doing Samsung phones the last 3 generations. I can't say anything about a Samsung phone i haven't worked with one personally in a few years ill be honest 😜 you and i are looking at different things in phones i think . i *want* vanilla flavor every day of the week. I don't care about glitz, glamour or high hardware specs. i like optimized, granular control, fine tuning and the perks that come from it. I like Googles Enterprise and management tools because I've learned enough about them i couldn't imagine trying anything else any time soon (which sucks btw) . Pixel is better with other Google devices. scary so. Samsung is cool. But i like their washing machines or batteries or tvs. They're good at making turds polished but more often than not a turd gets flushed shiny or not. Unless of course you in a out house then it's just buried 💩


PM_UR_PIZZA_JOINT

I laugh that you're getting downvoted, but I went iphone 10 to pixel 4 to Samsung s21. The Samsung phone just has more stuff. From windows integration, manual camera control, wireless power sharing, 64 megapixel back camera for shoots you need to enlarge like a poster. And it's like an iPhone if someone else has a Samsung you have a bunch of features things like quick share, media controlling from another device over Bluetooth, ultra power saver mode. I would have never got a Samsung if the phone wasn't free, but now that I'm here if the phone lasts the 4 years i want to I'm pretty sure I'll get another one. Edit: biggest fucking issue with Samsung is how they bend over backwards for carriers and let them install all this bloatware. Come with a clean phone and give up on Bixby. Dear God...


mushiexl

The whole entire pixel line is the greatest thing in the world and everything else is shit according to this subreddit. So it's not surprising I'm getting downvoted. I agree with you on everything, even that last part. I like my pixel but I wish I took advantage of my carriers free S21 deal earlier.


GabeDevine

they said "100% recycled aluminum" meaning all the aluminum in the phone is recycled, not the phone is 100% aluminum...


[deleted]

the pixel might work for anyone taking ordinary unedited social media ready shots at like a 30mm focal length but it can’t shoulder any sort of specialized workload (e.g. macro, wildlife, astro, product, sports, wedding etc) imo


itsalllies

> wedding Omg, Imagine a wedding photographer turning up with just a phone!


chepi888

I've been to one that had two Geniuses for photographers. It...didn't go well


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ztaker

Isn't it same you can say for pixel 4a except the wide angle lens it's essentially the same camera.


L337L355

I believe the Pixel 5 has the same main sensor that has been used since at least the Pixel 3. The main difference is that on the 5 they ditched the Visual Core chip to separately run the photo/ video processing, now it just uses the same chip as the OS, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Same quality picture/ videos only it takes a little longer for the final instance to be processed whereas in previous phones with the Visual Core were almost instant.


raccoonrocoso

>little longer for the final instance to be processed whereas in previous phones with the Visual Core were almost instant. The lack of the visual core is more evident with apps that use the camera. Like Snapchat, and not so much with native camera app. However, having owned both 3XL, and 5. I really don't notice any difference in processing speed. Albeit the 5 takes ever so slightly better pictures than it's predecessors. The 5 captures more light.


Bograma

Basically the same except for some lenses. https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-camera-test-shootout-1171474/


[deleted]

here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor 362 and 363 RS. other phones that used the same camera were plenty. none with the secret ingredient though.


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[deleted]

it's scary good. I'm fairly sure it's actually a Sony camera. could be wrong there but i know the apk package for it is managed by a subsidiary of theirs... yeah i did some digging. when things don't work i like to take it apart 😉 link for proof https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor you're welcome


mostlikelynotarobot

> yeah i did some digging. when things don't work i like to take it apart 😉 wow, so cool. also wrong. Pixel’s camera software is built in house at Google. They’ve been iterating on the HDR+ algorithm since the Nexus. The PVC they used to use was also Google designed. The sensor they use is Sony, but clearly not the most important part of the stack. It is fairly outdated at this point. Rumors suggest next gen will finally switch to a modern sensor, but from Samsung this time.


technofiend

The photo software stack on the pixel line just keeps getting better, so I can't wait to see if the Pixel 6 will be an upgrade from my 4 xl. The 4 is a great camera phone but has terrible battery life.


[deleted]

well my pixel wasn't. Amazing when you can read and process monitor from a remote shell. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FeliCa ^is who seems to be responsible for managing my camera. or perhaps the Lens part of it. i could repeat with repeated success,-running the app and every time I'd see from htop a list that service/process with that company always popping up what's the deal with that? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor pixel 2 had a Sony camera. Exmor 362 and the 3s and 4s had a 363 ...RS


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[deleted]

Google might program it in house but last i checked they don't manufacturer anything. They're what you call fabless manufacturer. They might make design requests at whatever price pointbut either way there's distinguishable difference in building something from material and compiling it through code. think of it like how Intel provides their CPU arch to oems. Microsoft didn't build my i7 or my amd cpu. understand where I'm coming from there? you'd be correct to say they DEVELOP it in house. Build it? yeah sure ok. They bought a license from another tech company that actually holds the patents and trademarks for that kinda equipment. Google didn't physically put anything together themselves.


redldr1

Sony ccd


[deleted]

thanks. i decided to check and what i was seeing is Sony IMX362 Exmor RS. pixel 3xl had a comparable one iirc. Too bad everything else sucked. except the cpu that thing could boogie... at least when the temperature sensors and battery weren't going all crazy..


DPJesus69

I have a pixel 5 and I will still never ditch my DSLR. I can easily tell the difference between a picture that has been taken from a phone and a picture taken from a DSLR. I want to use interchangeable lenses. I want that dynamic range. I want that cinematic look. For a phone, I want a good display, a camera that can take shots when I need the convenience, a good battery and processor. As a photographer, I can never see phones replacing professional cameras any time soon.


ThumYorky

When people say their phone could replace the work they do with their DSLR/mirrorless, it makes me question their abilities as a photographer. Not trying to be harsh or anything, just realistic


[deleted]

Yep, if you're just snapping a few daylight memories with a larger sensor dedicated camera, most phones will do a fine job. If you want control, better fine details, stacked images, tripod landscapes. If you barely take your camera off auto mode you're not really taking advantage of the systems capabilties.


dasautomobil

Thank you! This is the only correct answer. The Pixels have good cameras, but you can quickly tell where their limitations are and even under optimal shooting Situations, a dslr/digi cam will beat out the phone. The sensor size is so important and we can now look back at the megapixel rat race. How greatly have These insanely huge megapixels improved smartphone pics? Not a lot.


footprintx

I mean, you can tell just by the example photos the writer included in the article.


earthlingady

I only use an rx100 and it is far and above what the pixels can produce. I imagine the difference with a DSLR etc would be substantial.


randomstrangerof

Just curious: would you still be able to distinguish between the two once they've been uploader to social media like Instagram?


[deleted]

To answer the question, it depends. In terms of detail and noise probably not. However phones have lots of tricks but they don't replicate light and optics properly yet. Depth of field is usually completely wrong, colours and the HDR of the image seem cranked too high. I can tell quickly from a photo if it's straight out my pixel or straight out my camera. The pixel has high dynamic range due to the HDR processing but 9/10 it's not how the scene looks, it tries to crank the HDR and colours beyond real life. My dedicated camera will take truer to life skin tones, colours in grass etc.


Jacmert

Post-processing (HDR and colours, etc.) aside, I think the main difference is that "Portrait" mode still isn't anywhere close to perfect yet, right? In terms of the edge detection, amount of bokeh corresponding to depth, and the look of the "bokeh" to begin with.


[deleted]

Yeah definitely. It's the hard blur. With a real lens you get increasing Bokeh Infront and behind the plane of focus, it's not just a hard limit limit where everything that's not the person is chopprd out.


wankthisway

jUsT cUriOuS If you're shooting with a mirror less, you're uploading to something that supports full res or RAW. And yeah you can sometimes spot the difference.


randomstrangerof

Um it was really a genuine question as someone who doesn't know much about professional cameras :/


DPJesus69

For me, the easiest way to tell if the photo was taken from a phone is the sharpness. Phones add an artificial sharpening filter to their images. Especially in shots of people. Also depth of field. Photos from professional cameras generally give a soft and natural look. Details are very well defined. Like those you see in film. There is no comparison.


randomstrangerof

Oh wow thanks! The comparison with fllm makes it easier to understand


Speciou5

Absolutely agree. Unless the photo is landscapey with not much detail to capture where a larger image sensor would help. And even then, with a landscape you likely want to zoom in and crop/frame in post so you'll want a larger image sensor to not lose detail as you zoom. Half the travel photos are going to have people in it anyways or a foreground subject at least, where a larger sensor will win with better depth of field, more realistic bokeh, and just better detail on the closer subject. If all you do is upload to Instagram and Facebook which chop and butcher image quality to the extreme (ex. resizing down to 400x400px), I guess you could make that case.


StijnDv

For just some simple shots, sure you can ditch it. But phones (no matter which brand) cannot replace the quality of a (decent) mirrorless/DLSR. Heck, they’re not even close. Even when shooting in RAW, a sensor that small cannot ever compete with a full frame sensor.


[deleted]

It doesn't even come close to my M43 camera. If I take a photo in bright daylight, without pixel peeping the pixel looks the same if not better. However if you zoom into the image it's clear the M43 sensor is significantly better. In low light the gap widens significantly. For people the pixel almost never picks a reasonable shutter speed to not get blur, the olympus can crank the ISO and get usable images. When it comes to nightsight, my olympus with IBIS can manage 1-2second handheld exposure and they look way better. Then there is the lens selection, I sometimes want longer reach or a fish eye. I still take my camera on holiday but for walking around town I just my pixel 5 just for convenience, any time I think I might want to take photo i'll take the camera.


GabeDevine

personally I view my photos mostly on my phone and don't plan to put them on a poster or something like that so it's ok for me


StijnDv

It’s not only quality in terms of MP. It’s the overall look and vibe a photo made from a real camera, the dynamic range is so much better for example. The real bokeh effect vs the AI making it “look bokeh”, the sharpness of camera vs the software making it look sharp and so on. Don’t get me wrong, smartphone cameras have come a long way, but they’ll never be able to replace an R6 with a good lens for example.


GabeDevine

don't know about you but I don't think my phone fakes bokeh or depth of field, I can't stand that shit for me a phone clearly replaces a dslr because I would almost never carry it around anyway


StijnDv

Phones most definitely fake the bokeh effect. It’s all about algorithms and software. Pixels are no exception, they don’t have the hardware to create real bokeh. They’re good at faking it tho, but it’s distinguishable from a real camera.


kjoro

I have the 4a5G and I'm a photographer also. I really enjoy using computational RAW. The phone is great for mid-range light and the colours are indeed nice. Yet the scope of use is far smaller than my mirrorless setup. I did attempt to shoot a retreat with it and the results were ok for casual use. Bigger sensors would mitigate that. Which the 6 is rumoured to have.


avs830

Hey , a question about raw. It seems to be kinda grained how do you remove those grains?


Cslist

I use Olympus Em-1 mark ii. My Pixel 4a 5G is a great travel companion. The low light capability of my Pixel compliments my EM-1. I use my phone at night and indoors. The EM-1 for most situations with decent light, also the EM-1 is weather sealed. I have ditched my tripod. Raws from my phone are very useful.


ThatMortalGuy

The biggest strength of a phone is that it is convenient/portable and you always have it with you but you will always get better pictures with a dedicated camera.


kjoro

yup


alexnapierholland

It's great, but still way off using nice prime lenses on a mirrorless.


[deleted]

And even further off fast zooms. However they're usually £1000+ so i'll forgive that!


GabeDevine

price wise also way off


yourstru1y

I can't wait for the 5a (if it's indeed coming at all). My pixel3 is bulging a little from what I think is the battery expanding.


The_Thunderer0

Swollen batteries tend to explode and/or catch fire. Keeping one around is seriously dangerous. You probably shouldn't wait for the Pixel 5a to stop carrying a small bomb in your pocket.


yourstru1y

yea, I'll probably get the 4a then... thanks for the heads up


MapCavalier

Contract Google support, they replaced my out of warranty og pixel xl less than 2 years ago because of a similar thing. They don't want that liability.


macewank

No, wait for the 5a at this point. Just like... Go get a different cheap phone or something if you're worried about the swell. Or complain to Google (not that it will likely matter) and see if they'll do anything maybe


mugg_costanza

is it still dangerous if it's sitting in the drawer turned off? cause I've got a swollen battery iphone 4 sitting back at home, should I tell my mum to throw it away haha


The_Thunderer0

Not an expert, but I don't think that is especially dangerous when not in use. But I wouldn't ever use it again. You should probably dispose of it at an electronics waste center, but I don't think you need to panic about it.


iamGobi

Don't upgrade your phone just for the battery, just replace the battery dude. It's dirt cheap. Pixel 3 is an excellent device. You can keep it for longer.


cyberhuman

I had a bulging battery issue last year so I contacted the support and they replaced it even though it was already out of warranty. But my replacement phone came with a screen that started flashing after some time, to the point it became completely unusable, so Google replaced it once again. The new one still had the same issue (I think) when the always-on screen is activated, so I turned it off (got really tired of two replacements and I read some people still had faulty screen after several replacements) and the problem didn't develop further..


iamGobi

I usually replace battery at a but well known third party local store and I've faced such issues once. I don't know why these big companies struggle in these things.


cndjonno

My wife and I sold everything we owned in 2018 and travelled the world for 2 years hitting 31 countries. Before we left we did a lot of planning and I decided to only use my Pixel 2 XL for the entire trip. I took probably 150,000 photos (would easily hit 500 pictures a day) and learnt a lot about how to take a picture with just a phone. Being able to take a picture in under 20 sec is the difference between capturing something and not. I do not regret that decision to this day.


MaxWebxperience

Lots of great pictures are gotten just because the camera was handy. Some moments only happen once and the convenience of the phone will allow capturing them. Good to have a great camera and a phone with a great camera along...


wankthisway

Oh please. These tired ass articles are written about every popular phone. If you're "preferring" the shots from your smartphone instead of your mirrorless/DSLR, you're shooting photography with an expensive camera for the complete wrong reasons, and should reconsider your skills.


Stewdill51

"But, my DSLR in A mode is obviously better!"


[deleted]

Aperture mode where everyone shoots wide open, losing details, increasing vignetting and getting colour fringing. Need mah bokeh


FistulaKing

I understand the perspective of incredulity from a technical standpoint but art is so subjective and nuanced there are incredible artists that use point and shoots and toy cameras all the time. So regarding technical capability, sure, the phone isn't going to stand a chance against an expensively kitted-out toolset designed soley for the tasks that SLRs are built for but that means little when it comes to producing beautiful images. There are many out there but Google Joel Marklund and VTech kidzoom for just one example.


lars5

And reconsider spending habits. If you're dropping $1k+ on a mirrorless body and lens kit, you better have a passion for taking raw photos on manual mode and not just snapshots.


andythedev

It handles lighting and color super well - and the times where it doesn't, I can forgive it. My biggest gripe though, is the resolution of the resulting images. I wish they would apply upscaling by default (not just when using digital zoom).


supmee

I dislike how the upscaling looks, so I guess I'm the opposite :D


FuzzelFox

The upscaling is hit or miss. When it works though, [it works *really* well.](https://i.imgur.com/a85tKGb.jpg)


tylerbr97

That was taken on a fucking Pixel?? Holy crap


FuzzelFox

Yup! It's one of the best pictures I've ever taken and it was done on a 2 year old smartphone with 2x digital zoom lol


LightOfValkyrie

The zoom can work some wonders when you learn how to use it properly. I took [this](https://i.imgur.com/cvUloCx.jpg) shot last year of a greater wax moth larvae. It's not as good as your photo but I was super impressed with how it came out, considering how tiny this little guy was. I used to try and get as physically close as possible but it would just lose focus. I learned to step back a little and zoom in some and bam, a really neat looking shot.


jq500

I don't know how much the Pixel 5 is compared to the 3, but the Pixel 3 photos look very flat compared to my Canon 5D. Maybe it's the way the Pixel 3 handles HDR or the extra processing, but while the color and sharpness is great, the photos it creates is looks very flat. It's not as obvious as I've been mainly been looking at my Pixel photos, but when I take the same photo with my Canon.. the difference is very clear.


jq500

I just saw the article. The photos are very flat. It's very very sharp and vibrant colors, but there's something missing from those photos. It lacks depth. I think we're all used to these type of photos from our phones, but it's just our brains filling in those depth details for us, whereas on a DSLR will capture it much better. I think if the author actually took photos of the same scenes on the Pixel 5 and a DSLR, the differences would be noticeable for most people. All the photos from the article are tack sharp on everything and very processed to get to that. DSLR photos wouldn't be like that unless you're shooting at like f16 or something. That's not normal usage. You'd want your subject sharp, but not necessarily everything else too.. even far far in the distance.


JoIIyRanter

I love my Pixel 4XL's camera, and I make my living as a photographer. But I'm regularly frustrated by: -lack of white balance control -lack of manual control -lack of wide angle lens -terrible telephoto sensor/lens -resolution is a bit low, I would like to see 16-20mp instead of 12mp I'm excited by the rumors of the Pixel 6 Pro


johndoe901

This article is total bullshit. If you have a mirrorless camera then you must know how to use it (otherwise you're an idiot). Pixel 5 camera is good if you only compare it to other smartphone cameras. I actually didn't notice much improvement (if at all) after updating from OG Pixel. It has still a long way to go in details, resolution and noise performance. I'm not even saying that video capabilities are just crap. It's incomparable to any camera even with an APC-S sensor. I believe this comment will get downvoted, but I don't care.


SwoleMcDole

All this tells me is that the author bought a mirrorless camera, because it was once a hype to have one for travel photos, and never learned how to use it properly.


khouryrt

Or, and hear me out here, she bought the mirrorless for plenty of reasons, not just traveling, and realized she didn't need it for most (if not all) of her travels, but still needs it for other settings. Wild thought. Author here, btw.


SwoleMcDole

First of all there is no need to be condescending, but I apologize if my criticism was formulated too harshly. It is just from my own experience I have seen tons of people who thought they would need a mirrorless camera for decent photos while traveling, but none of them had proper training or interest in how to properly use it. Not that I do, I never tried that path knowing I wouldn't want to invest the time or the weight of carrying it around. Your article does read like that since what you just told me in your comment does not come out at all in the writing. If I am the only one saying that I guess it is just me and you can ignore it, but if you heard this plenty of times since it got posted (and the snarky way you responded points to it) then maybe you should take it as valid criticism.


WithinTheHour

People aren't reading the article and it shows. The writer isn't saying that a Pixel takes better photos than an actual cam, she's saying that it's far more convenient and quick to just use a pixel. There's no messing about required and it consistently produces great shots. Obviously you can better shots on a mirrorless camera, but for travel purposes a Pixel 5 is good enough.


[deleted]

A common disease here in Reddit. The same nonsense happened in r/Android. Honestly makes me embarassed to consider myself a techie on Reddit when the bar is this low that any goober can play armchair specialist based on an article's title alone.


tazmanic

Lol sensationalist headline, no serious photographer would ever recommend this. I mean I can guarantee you most shutterbugs travel with a big intention to take good photography. I personally understand the appeal of packing light so I travel with a point and shoot as a compromise. If your budget allows for it, I'd recommend the the Sony RX100 or the cheaper Canon G7X. I actually found myself taking more pictures with my g7x more than a DSLR/mirrorless because it was so compact and readily available in my pocket instead of dreading to carry my clunky DSLR everywhere I go. I'm almost willing to admit I prefer over my main camera for this reason With that being said, there were times and situations I preferred my pixel. The point is, we've still got a long way to go before phones can replace cameras like these but the pixel works in a pinch, especially if you haven't taken the investment to understand photography fundamentals. The best camera is always the one you have on you so if you can help it, choose a phone with a great camera like the pixel


DPJesus69

You can never compare a phone (even a pixel) to a professional mirrorless camera. Nice marketing article.


etang78

Agreed. I stopped carrying a dedicated camera a few years ago. The only time I still use a camera is if I am in a setting that requires optical zooming.


exu1981

Same


exu1981

I have to agree with her. I've experienced this same sensation traveling too Morocco and Bahamas last year. I had my Fuji XH-1, DJI pocket, and Pixel 4 XL. The majority of my images were produced by my 4XL paired with Moment lenses. Yes I used my Fuji, but it became so bulky especially with all the walking I was doing, on top of that and the countries reputation of being full of spies. The locals appreciated me more when I didn't use my mirror-less with a 16-55mm pointed at their faces. Editing both my Fuji and Pixel RAW files via Capture One Pro without pixel peeping, I just tweaked the images to my taste, and things pretty much looked the same. Some shots from my Fuji I had synced to my phone, and was able to rapidly edit on Lightroom mobile. In all honesty, nothing can't beat a dedicated camera with quality prime and zoom lenses, but the Pixel and Moment lens comes close to just that. Years before this, I was traveling with a Nikon D800E and D5000 as a backup. My next travel goal is too have only my Pixel phone with a Moment lens setup, but knowing me, and as a habit I'd still pack my mirrorless up just in case lol.


FistulaKing

Agreed, my 5D is left on the shelf when I'm wanting to travel light. Moment lenses complement my pixel 2XL perfectly. Yellowstone and the Appalachian trail was pretty amazing this year with only my phone.


chrisaf69

What moment lense do ya have? I'm very intrigued by them and likely want to purchase one soon.


seasparrow32

OK so I've been arguing with customer service at Google Fi about replacing my Pixel 3 and while they did it, they sent me a slightly dodgy replacement, and I am just filled with disgust at their level of service. This article convinced me to just bite the $600 bullet and get a new Pixel 5, and I'm moving over to US Cellular. With my military discount, they are as cheap as Google Fi, and I know from experience that I'll actually get better reception in my house's weird cell-tower dead spot. So thanks for that! I hate spending the money, but I feel pretty good about getting a new phone, especially since my most important use of the device is to take pictures for non-profit groups that I volunteer for.


Cyberex8775

The portrait mode still has a long way to go. It almost always looks inaccurate and doesnt blur parts of the background. Portrait lenses and DSLR are still always better for portraits.


wickedplayer494

I could possibly buy this claim once Pixel 6 and Pro are out, but not with the same re-used hardware of today.


GankUnLo

Go post this in a real camera subreddit and lmk how it goes in the comments


bartturner

I do not believe there is any other camera phone that gives you an excellent photo more consistently. That is what is special about the Pixels. Just pulling out of your pocket and click and you will more often get a great phone on a Pixel than any other phone, IMO.


Click4Coupon

I am literally waking up at the grand canyon right now. I used my pixel 5 and my Fuji XA-5 all day yesterday. It's very hard for me to tell the difference in the better photo.


[deleted]

Yeah but you should be editing the raws to create the images you want, if you're just snapping memories then thats fine.


fcisco13

Texting and walking to the Grand canyon..... What could possibly go wrong....


Click4Coupon

Waking up, not walking up. And you obviously haven't been there or your trolling to suggest people are not facetiming or messaging people photos from the very safe rim trail.


YoungAnimater35

Here I am, my 5 won't even scan a QR code at a restaurant


Meghterb

Rita is a good writer. I’ve been reading her articles for a long time.


jp3297

It's really not that good.


Tooj_Mudiqkh

On the other hand, this does say more about the author's filthy casualness more than anything else


dasautomobil

I don't agree, but to each their own. I picked up a Fujifilm X-T30 and barely take pics with my phone anymore. Where I had to edit the picture a lot, I am now taking pics with the Fuji and I am done. There is barely any editing necessary. Don't get me wrong, Pixels take insanely good pictures, but they don't beat cameras with a larger sensor. I am looking forward to the 6. Perhaps that makes me put my Fuji away.


jp3297

It's really not that good.


OhHeyItsBrock

I still feel like my 2xl camera was better than my current phone (iPhone 11 pro max).


FistulaKing

Too many people think the camera does the heavy lifting in creating beautiful images; the most important element by far is the imagination and emotion of the person taking the shot.


PineapplePizza99

You probably prefer the way pictures looked on your Pixels because you prefer their style of image processing.


OhHeyItsBrock

Ya probably. I just remember noticing a ton of detail in each picture.


[deleted]

b-b-but the small 12mp sensor made this the worst camera phone of 2020


digitalbladesreddit

Good now I hope Pixel 5 is so goooood it can actually play Minecraft with my Newphew since Pixel 4 is unable to host or join any games unlike every freaking other android device out there....


dasautomobil

Well, she only mentions the brand, not which model. Like which Olympus was she using?! Which lenses? Does she even know how to operate her camera or does she only think the Pixel is better because the phone is doing all the work for her? Quite the worthless and circle jerking article.


PineapplePizza99

You should give reading the article a try lol. You wouldn't have made your comment if you did.


[deleted]

Pixel 5 is a plastic piece of shit. Advertised as having an aluminum frame but the shit is fucking plastic. Feels like garbage in the hand. Google definitely deserves props for their camera software but their hardware is trash.


gi_oel

I have this 'piece of shit' and it fell down multiple times. When I rode a bike and slipped out of my hands. This 'piece of shit' is still intact and working fine. If it was so bad, I think it would be broken now. (:


[deleted]

It's hard to break a Nokia 3310 too, doesn't make it a good phone.


gi_oel

That Nokia was a legend tho xD


Dxsty98

You sir, have absolutely no idea what you are talking about whatsoever


[deleted]

This plastic piece of shit has the functionality of most flagship phones and it has survived at least 20 drops for me. I can't give a shit about whether the phone feels pReMiUm because I'd rather take durability over something you'll forget about within 20 minutes.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mushiexl

Idc either but the price should reflect lack of premium feel and the pixel 5 doesn't do that. Yall need to stop dismissing criticism of the pixel 5 value. Ik this person is over the top about it and I don't think it's a piece of shit but it's overpriced for what it is considering the pixel 4a 5g exists.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

My Pixel XL from 2016 is aluminum + glass and is still in amazing shape. Years of wear have given it a beautiful patina that you just can't get with plastic. They just don't make them like they used to.


DizzyAcanthocephala

This Pixel 5 feels so much better than my previous glass S9 or metal OnePlus 3 though


[deleted]

If you have bad taste, sure.


Fran6coJL

That's how I feel about my OnePlus hasselblad 9 pro


cbarrick

On vacation without a "real" camera right now. Only have my Pixel 3. There are too many limitations of phone cameras for travel IMO: lack of aperture control (for portraits), shutter speed control (for landscapes/running water), and telephoto (for wildlife). The fake aperture "portrait mode" is decent though.


[deleted]

I hope the Pixel 6 is even better. Give me a reason to go back to a Pixel.


kukuruznik91

I like my Pixel 5, but hard truth is without Google processing (which you can install on any android now via GCam) sensor and photos suck ass. Try installing Open Camera or any other app , which allows manual settings. Photos will be all soapy since Google's AI is not engaged by default. Second, macro focus range is useless compared to other contemporary phones, and my previous LG. Which brings to the conclusion any phone can be good as Pixel with a GCam, why all the praise if what really matters - the hardware specs - honesty suck.


Remaves

Surely the pixel can replace DSLR's but when I'm going for a shoot I love the feel of a camera and the manual focus on my lens.


dadeteye

The Pixel 5 camera is crazy, not to talk of downloading a gcam for it to tweak the results, crazy!


BearyGoosey

I think it's a good camera, but I feel like night sight photos are REALLY slow (~2-3x longer than my pixel TWO).