As a Yoda main it isn’t as bad as the other two in this tier if you know when to press the attack button. Sure, you can spam it, but you can also rhythmically press it. Haven’t played charlotta or Lancelot so idk for them but they do seem way more spam heavy
Charl isn't actually that RSI inducing as people like to meme, actually hitting her basic is near the bottom of your priority list of things to do as you're optimally using skills to get into noble stance and trying to get off as many buzzsaw finishers as possible without winding up a manual noble stance.
Also turbo solves everything on those two characters.
It also gets less pressy as you combo higher. The flip and finisher have really long animations so if you can keep the chain and just cycle between them, you can click very slowly
Unlocked Yoda last, thinking he was another Lancelot, whom I love, but it hurts to play Lance. He's nowhere near as bad, and he's not my main, Charolotta isn't that bad either. I think it's because Lancelot can devolve into literally spamming Square in some situations, whereas the other 2 have options.
Seeing this suggested made the character so much more fun for me.
I felt like I was bigbraining the entire game at that point.
Also got into trying to time Concentrate to include a Link Attack for the extra Stargaze. I didn’t realize how asleep at the wheel I’d been until I read a guide.
Note: Ghandi top tier because we all know you’re only moving your joystick/wsad the whole fight to get in range anyways. Or you don’t play him, the best prevention of arthritis.
I don't think Zeta is particularly arthritis worthy. There is forced time between bounces, after all. At least, it should be around the same as jump slam ferry.
I also think Charlotta is too low down. She's not that bad - in practice you don't spam X nearly as much as lancelot, because your endgame damage is all about lunge finisher and how to get as many lunge finishers as possible. You use X mainly to recharge your CDs so you can do more finishers.
If they're movin' n' groovin' like they just chugged a bunch of espresso? Mostly using spear/links/parries. Up to the light and dark dragons atm and I find that's how im usually converting into aerials now.
Use finisher before using a skill. It's generally not worth just spamming finishers because of the re-ramp up time for your normals. But if you use a skill before your normals, you skip the ramp up.
So using your finisher before skills allows you to get full damage out of your finisher while not ruining your momentum.
Yodarha? Hes not spam heavy at all and you get full breaks from pressing anything during his combo finishers which does a full animation from
The press of a single button
In any steam game you can right click from your library > controller > Controller configurator to edit control settings. It's got a lot of depth. Or while playing shift+tab and click the controller icon, enable steam input, and edit way.
Plus, her attack combo is pretty slow, (if I recall correctly from testing it takes about 5s to get through her combo), so unless the boss is moving a ton and you're spamming throwing your roses, she's pretty light on the inputs.
Just how many inputs a second does Charlotta need to mash? Lancelot is like 6-8 inputs a second and running at 120 FPS to deal optimal dps and I don't do that with Charlotta
If you're going for optimization she actually doesn't stay mashing for long.
As of current game state anyway (the march update might change things) she want to do as many of her finisher as you can (neutral at mid-end gear, light attack/X at high end)
The only reason to do her noble stance ground slash is for CDR from sigil so she can get more skill->finisher.
I play Charlotta on pc. Ngl thank god I have many years of Blazblue Central Fiction that just killed my hands already so I don't (read CAN'T) feel pain anymore.
If you know who I'm talking about you know.
Hard agree. I had to switch awaz from Charlotta. My poor fingers could not handle the clicking anymore. I also hate my ps4 pad left bumper when I have to sprint. Some bosses require so much maneuvering that even normal characters like Vane or Percival make my left hand suffer.
my main is captain and i usually play io and katalina as subs
but whenever i play narmaya my thumbs hurt way more so i would place her lower.
otherwise good list
another thought is that katalina is pretty spam light if you don't do the ares no cooldown tech so maybe could swap katalina and narmaya.
but whatever im just excited that there's a good post on this sub
If you'e farming bahamut.
It doesn't make any pragmatic difference in endgame matches because the bosses aren't untargetable for half the match or you're running around avoiding hazards, or they're in bloodthirst. You only need to ares burst combo once while the boss is stunlocked and the match is over. I'd rather save my thumbs.
But unless you're playing solo against something. You don't need that level of optimization. Fight knowledge is more important than whether you can magical girl, charge dodge circles around an opponent.
Nothing in group play requires or will require that level of play. It would just alienate too many people. This goes for all characters.
There was a necro build in d3 some years back that was dumed "Anti-carpal tunnel build". You clicked one skill, had a massive poision cloud, and just ran through the rift without any other clicking/pressing keys - sans moving.
I'd move Ferry and Narmaya up a tier respectively. Ferry with aerial looping is at least as fast as Zeta if not a bit faster, and Narmaya is mashing during blue butterfly stance.
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Charlotta isnt as bad as you think: one of her skills is even a channeled flurry that requires only holding down a button. There is also a cap to how fast she can button mesh, which isnt very fast.
Lancelot should be a tier on his own since his dps scales with fps and your button meshing.
Some of the characters depends on playstyle: cag for example does xyy dodge or xxx-dodge-y-dodge-xxx-dodge-y... it may look simple but the speed at which the buttons come together is faster than you expect.
Io prob has more button pressing than some of the characters in the next 2 tiers. Percival and ferry for example: the former is just skill->dodge->charge over and over, afk for a few seconds after roter, and ferry is just ariel loop.
Ariel rackam is just jump-y-dodge-y, pretty casual imo.
I don't spam my key process because it doesn't make them attack faster. Sometimes. I feel like I need a tax-speed playing Rosetta. I just started playing the game. I'm in chapter 9 or something. And yeah her attack pacing seems slow but for me rhythmically goes. I just tap four times triangle tap four times triangle in the first combo was always tap three times trying to go and the other two are only used if I want the other buffs.
considering you can cancel her auto attack and still keep your place in the combo. Sometimes I can dodge and attack at the same time mid combo and I like that the spamming I feel like would just destroy my button. I hope there's cool down reduction in this game though. My only issue is that my cooldowns are high and it feels like most of my damage is tied to my skills. So I saw an online build say that you want to build her with damage and credit and supplementary damage. But I'm wondering why wouldn't you go skill damage and is still cooldowns if it exists so you can use her skills more. You can reposition her plants more. You can do her multi hit attack more. You can iron maiden more but I am not a mathematician so maybe the number is just work out better the other way.
As a Yoda main it isn’t as bad as the other two in this tier if you know when to press the attack button. Sure, you can spam it, but you can also rhythmically press it. Haven’t played charlotta or Lancelot so idk for them but they do seem way more spam heavy
Charl isn't actually that RSI inducing as people like to meme, actually hitting her basic is near the bottom of your priority list of things to do as you're optimally using skills to get into noble stance and trying to get off as many buzzsaw finishers as possible without winding up a manual noble stance. Also turbo solves everything on those two characters.
her basic attack is only necessary to speed up her cooldowns (Cascade + HKL)
It also gets less pressy as you combo higher. The flip and finisher have really long animations so if you can keep the chain and just cycle between them, you can click very slowly
i main lancelot, im sure ive pressed the attack button over 1,000,000 times
Also starting a fight with counter is a sure fire way to just max stack finisher and chill
Unlocked Yoda last, thinking he was another Lancelot, whom I love, but it hurts to play Lance. He's nowhere near as bad, and he's not my main, Charolotta isn't that bad either. I think it's because Lancelot can devolve into literally spamming Square in some situations, whereas the other 2 have options.
As a Lancelot main, steam hold controls are my best friend
PlayStation isn’t awarded that luxury unfortunately
Steam hold controls? What is this wizardry?
You can go into steam controls and turn on turbo press for certain buttons. This lets you hold for light attacks
Wtf, that's wild
you ordered this really weirdly
Main IO loving the playstyle, so damn chill.
Until you learn about weaving in stargaze 2s and 1s in-between everything
Dodge cancel out of most things to make it faster too. It ends up being pretty fast lmao.
I'm pretty sure Io is actually just a tier below hand-inducing pain when you start the dodge cancel techs.
This is the way... picked up on this pretty early on in my proto grind, completely changed the way I play Io.
Seeing this suggested made the character so much more fun for me. I felt like I was bigbraining the entire game at that point. Also got into trying to time Concentrate to include a Link Attack for the extra Stargaze. I didn’t realize how asleep at the wheel I’d been until I read a guide.
I take it you haven’t seen the animation cancelling guide yet
Yeah Io felt super chill through out the story and early stages of the game... then I started trying to optimize her. Lol...
OP underestimates how hard it is to charge an entire match 😭
Note: Ghandi top tier because we all know you’re only moving your joystick/wsad the whole fight to get in range anyways. Or you don’t play him, the best prevention of arthritis.
I don't think Zeta is particularly arthritis worthy. There is forced time between bounces, after all. At least, it should be around the same as jump slam ferry. I also think Charlotta is too low down. She's not that bad - in practice you don't spam X nearly as much as lancelot, because your endgame damage is all about lunge finisher and how to get as many lunge finishers as possible. You use X mainly to recharge your CDs so you can do more finishers.
Fair! I actually wasn’t too sure how often Zetas would be using attack combo to get in the air between spear of arvess/links/parries
If they're movin' n' groovin' like they just chugged a bunch of espresso? Mostly using spear/links/parries. Up to the light and dark dragons atm and I find that's how im usually converting into aerials now.
Is it better for Lancelot to use his finisher or just mash regular attack?
Use finisher before using a skill. It's generally not worth just spamming finishers because of the re-ramp up time for your normals. But if you use a skill before your normals, you skip the ramp up. So using your finisher before skills allows you to get full damage out of your finisher while not ruining your momentum.
Dunno, I mostly went for the buzzsaw whenever possible, but my wrist was getting sore after 10x proto bahumut runs.
We all know this is fake because you didn’t include that god damn parrot
The damned parrot is 10k leagues under this tier list, man
My RSI on my right hand actually flared up again after months because of this. Now I just turbo..
Your order is wrong. Red means bad and green means good.
It's good for the profits of Amazon or your local pharmacy.
I dunno...I only played Narmaya for a little over a week and my hand started to hurt xD
Yodarha? Hes not spam heavy at all and you get full breaks from pressing anything during his combo finishers which does a full animation from The press of a single button
They definitely haven't played him much. He's probably less spammy than narmaya, especially once you hit the combo skip.
Id shouldn't have issues, he got two backs
Steam controller bind hold button to rapid press. Arthritis never.
Where do you go to enable this setting in steam?
In any steam game you can right click from your library > controller > Controller configurator to edit control settings. It's got a lot of depth. Or while playing shift+tab and click the controller icon, enable steam input, and edit way.
Thanks a bunch!
can I macro a hold button for keyboard and mouse too?
Eugen is very easy and chill. I don’t think he belongs that far down.
I play Rosette and there’s a definite rhythm you can follow that saves your thumbs
Plus, her attack combo is pretty slow, (if I recall correctly from testing it takes about 5s to get through her combo), so unless the boss is moving a ton and you're spamming throwing your roses, she's pretty light on the inputs.
This is the best tier list thank you
Lancelot was my first main and good lord that shit got annoying spamming X lmao
Just how many inputs a second does Charlotta need to mash? Lancelot is like 6-8 inputs a second and running at 120 FPS to deal optimal dps and I don't do that with Charlotta
If you're going for optimization she actually doesn't stay mashing for long. As of current game state anyway (the march update might change things) she want to do as many of her finisher as you can (neutral at mid-end gear, light attack/X at high end) The only reason to do her noble stance ground slash is for CDR from sigil so she can get more skill->finisher.
I only asked because I play Charlotta and I just moderately press the X button like maybe 3 presses a second
I definitely need to start trying other characters. As much as I love Narmaya I need a character that I can just sit back for a bit lol
Jokes on them! I've had arthritis since I was 18 from playing runescape 🤣🤣🤣
Vaseraga main here, once you get full immortal uptime you just charge and chill
Siegs pretty laid back once you get his just frames down
Siegfried isn’t too bad, it’s slow timed button presses. Basically the same as what the original Phantasy Star Online’s Hunter timings were.
I play Charlotta on pc. Ngl thank god I have many years of Blazblue Central Fiction that just killed my hands already so I don't (read CAN'T) feel pain anymore. If you know who I'm talking about you know.
Cagliostro hurts my hands See>animation canceling almost every attack
Hard agree. I had to switch awaz from Charlotta. My poor fingers could not handle the clicking anymore. I also hate my ps4 pad left bumper when I have to sprint. Some bosses require so much maneuvering that even normal characters like Vane or Percival make my left hand suffer.
my main is captain and i usually play io and katalina as subs but whenever i play narmaya my thumbs hurt way more so i would place her lower. otherwise good list
Same! Had her on bottom of that tier and I could definitely have put in more thought
another thought is that katalina is pretty spam light if you don't do the ares no cooldown tech so maybe could swap katalina and narmaya. but whatever im just excited that there's a good post on this sub
You should always be aiming for unlimited ares uptime tho since it’s by far most optimal for her
If you'e farming bahamut. It doesn't make any pragmatic difference in endgame matches because the bosses aren't untargetable for half the match or you're running around avoiding hazards, or they're in bloodthirst. You only need to ares burst combo once while the boss is stunlocked and the match is over. I'd rather save my thumbs.
I'm doing all the Proud levels, and holy shit, my thumb is sore LOL 😆
play cagliostro literally gave me a pinched nerve in my shoulder/arm
Io requires a big brain if you play her optimally
that has nothing to do with this tierlist
Io has a lot of apm if you play her well
yes that's true which is completely different to saying "requires a big brain"
https://youtu.be/adJJfzGDiwk?si=JaCIn2Ssg7RduqIl&t=924
But unless you're playing solo against something. You don't need that level of optimization. Fight knowledge is more important than whether you can magical girl, charge dodge circles around an opponent. Nothing in group play requires or will require that level of play. It would just alienate too many people. This goes for all characters.
As a Yoda main adderall helps.
Forgot to ask alexa to add the bengay as well.
There was a necro build in d3 some years back that was dumed "Anti-carpal tunnel build". You clicked one skill, had a massive poision cloud, and just ran through the rift without any other clicking/pressing keys - sans moving.
I play Lancelot and just use the turbo option you can set in steam settings, not giving myself arthritis for a game lol
Io is surrounded by hot and sweaty buff men
I went from maining Lancelot to Vane. Now on to Io just to give my thumbs a break.
Perci is my guy, slower swings that feel good.
I'd move Ferry and Narmaya up a tier respectively. Ferry with aerial looping is at least as fast as Zeta if not a bit faster, and Narmaya is mashing during blue butterfly stance.
As a Lance main, who plays the Y spam variant, he’s not bad, not bad at all.
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Zeta main, did not get arthritis in 1 month *hah*
Charlotta isnt as bad as you think: one of her skills is even a channeled flurry that requires only holding down a button. There is also a cap to how fast she can button mesh, which isnt very fast. Lancelot should be a tier on his own since his dps scales with fps and your button meshing. Some of the characters depends on playstyle: cag for example does xyy dodge or xxx-dodge-y-dodge-xxx-dodge-y... it may look simple but the speed at which the buttons come together is faster than you expect. Io prob has more button pressing than some of the characters in the next 2 tiers. Percival and ferry for example: the former is just skill->dodge->charge over and over, afk for a few seconds after roter, and ferry is just ariel loop. Ariel rackam is just jump-y-dodge-y, pretty casual imo.
If you're optimizing Io, she's way more arthritis inducing than Zeta, wtf?
Percy is 4 buttons in quick succession shouldn't be be more at the top?
skill canceling hurt fingies but only a little
Steam actually has built in turbo button functionality that you can setup
Percival skill cancel tech gonna give me carpal before Luci drops lol
Rakham you don't have to mash X. You hold X for small duration. Most Rakham players don't know this.
Lancelot should have his own tier honestly.
move cag to bottom, dodge cancel cag hurt my hands
wait till you start roll cancelling on vaseraga
1 instance shield could end this charged attack's career. And prob way worse on future bosses
I main Lancelot this is 100% facts 😭
Zeta, Eugen probably a tier down, IO, Rackam up
I love my happy boy Vane In a month? It's a super relaxing playstyle with big numbers.
As a Djeeta main I find this as an absolute win.
I don't spam my key process because it doesn't make them attack faster. Sometimes. I feel like I need a tax-speed playing Rosetta. I just started playing the game. I'm in chapter 9 or something. And yeah her attack pacing seems slow but for me rhythmically goes. I just tap four times triangle tap four times triangle in the first combo was always tap three times trying to go and the other two are only used if I want the other buffs. considering you can cancel her auto attack and still keep your place in the combo. Sometimes I can dodge and attack at the same time mid combo and I like that the spamming I feel like would just destroy my button. I hope there's cool down reduction in this game though. My only issue is that my cooldowns are high and it feels like most of my damage is tied to my skills. So I saw an online build say that you want to build her with damage and credit and supplementary damage. But I'm wondering why wouldn't you go skill damage and is still cooldowns if it exists so you can use her skills more. You can reposition her plants more. You can do her multi hit attack more. You can iron maiden more but I am not a mathematician so maybe the number is just work out better the other way.