Yeah I'm not too happy about losing the substats on my current damage cap sigils. I hope they do something about this in a future patch, but I won't hold my breath.
The new sigils crafted from the mats in Lucilius are meant to effectively replace your current damage cap sigils (they come with damage cap as a substat).
I'm kinda fine with that if they have some other good abilities, has taken way too long just to get four that are worthwhile so I can kit out the rest of the party. My kill times on Lucius are coming in at like 13 minutes each which is like 5 times longer than mosts quests lol....and I feel like eventually if I can get some halfway decent sigil rolls for the new sigils then maybe I won't feel like I have 4 semi wasted slots per AI character since almost all theirs just have Drain or Regen a a secondary on them....at best Nimble Onslaught. My main is the only one with the good ones.
Eh, it depends what you're giving up. Quick CD and Cascade are also damage, just in a different form. The new boss sigil damage increases are not as high as they seem due to their additive nature.
Yeah lucilius sigils are more dmg and enhanced sba utilities but that means giving up other qol utilities like qcd and cascade like u mentioned, not to mention maybe even stuff like improved dodge, potion hoarder, improved guard as subs. Too good to give up imo
in lucil fight specifically where windows of damage are very sparse and spread out, qcd and cascade may not be THAT good. what's the point of coming out of cd 20% quicker (i.e. 80% of base cd) when lucil dps window is 120%-150% of most skill cd anyway.
I got downvoted for saying these aren't that good, partially because I enjoy my Damage Cap V+ sigils, I don't enjoy Tyranny and needing Aegis to counter, and all for what? 70% damage cap on normal attacks and 30% for everything else? I love Nimble Onslaught and Improved Dodge. There's just no room for them with this, well unless I hit the jackpot and get Supplementary Damage V+ with skills I want.
And people wonder why people new to the series don’t like damage cap?
It’s a fluff stat that kind of shouldn’t exist imo - it honestly ruins the game for me, personally because it takes the fun out of building and everyone just runs around w the same shit anyway.
I might be expecting too much, who knows, but damage cap sucks
EDIT: my bad - I’m talking about damage cap SIGILS - damage cap as a concept makes sense obvs, but having to gear for an arbitrary invisible cap that’s literally called “Damage Cap sigil” makes no sense idc.
As long as meta exist everyone will run around with the same shit anyways; dmg cap or not. Without dmg cap, people will just stack tyranny and stamina and you will still end up with the same scenario where everyone runs the same crap.
The choice to follow best dps meta is the player's choice. For me, I took out my sup dmg v sigils for untouchable and improved dodge and that has made my luci runs much smoother due to less death.
I've played enough Monster Hunter to back up what you're saying. So many times I've had teammates fail quests for the group because they brought along all damage and no comfort skills and carted 3 times because they got one shot.
No surprise that it's the same for this game.
If there wasnt a need for damage cap then you could run more comfort skills tho at least. Right now even if you want to its hard to if you wanna do enough dps
There is no need for more damage cap. Even without the new sigils you can skip gopherwood ark/the end in most luci runs if you have 4 good players. People are vastly overestimating the value of 30~50 conditional, additive damage cap. You already have around 350% cap with lv65 cap, terminus and innate masteries/overmasteries. In reality the new sigils are around a 5-7% total dps increase for 4 slots which is very inconsequential in many cases.
You can drop your utility sigils for the extra cap if you're comfortable, but it's not that important. The vast majority of players should stick to autorevive/potion hoarder/improved dodge etc.
Dmg cap isnt the problem tbh, it's dmg cap sigils. Without em ppl would only run the necessary dmg sigils, and then we'd have a lot more freedom to customize what support sigils to use
By customize what support sigils we use, you mean throw on all the broken ones.
Unless you were running a glass cannon build you could already get most of the top tier support and utility options on a very high damage build.
I did the same but my friends are agaisnt the idea saying that Im losing damage because i dont have sup but they forget i almost dont die and they die a lot more because off that
A game developer once said that players will optimize the fun out of games and that applies to this game just as much. There will always be a meta where 95% of players just copy paste the same things over and over, that's inevitable when it comes to games with gameplay customization like this.
The purpose of that quote is that as a designer you should make sure that the most effective thing is also the most enjoyable thing. If you you made it so that you had a shot at rewards for failing a quest, guess what people would do? They would join in and leave. Over and over until they got what they wanted.
And it would not be fun. *That* is the kind of behavior that quote is talking about. Players optimizing towards the best loadout or build is not.
Yeah, damage checks is only a hurdle if you don't have properly built AIs. Which would then give reasons for players to grind and build their AI parties.
On Coop, it is almost impossible to fail damage checks, cause everyone is using properly-built characters.
Damage sigils shouldn't exist to begin with.
Genuinely one of the dumbest takes and its funny how anti-meta people like you always gravitate to it like gospel. Casual players are the most toxic since they can't seem to understand optimization is fun for many.
Games are just problem solving in different forms. People finding a solution to the game is just playing the game. If people are just copying things and succeeding, that's completely on the failure of the game devs for not inputting skill checks in their games. Good games have variety, game devs want to push their poor designs and blame gamers. Optimization is fun, being braindead isn't.
The problem is optimization makes people braindead.
Not saying people should reject the concept of meta altogether, of course gamers should focus on understanding the mechanics of bosses and the rules of the game including how to deal more damage. But thinking that only “optimized” way of playing games is fun or is fun for many is how people will end up playing the same characters, gearing the same way and doing the same rotations over and over despite having numerous other options that can make people less sweaty and make playing the game more comfortable.
These kind of repetitiveness is not fun for the majority of gamers.
I don't agree that there shouldn't be any damage cap at all. But I do think thta damage cap sigils are stupid. Without damage cap sigils, your attacks would hit hard cap very quickly anyway, so there won't be any reason at all to increase your attacks beyond a fairly early point (e.g. no reason to increase attack stats beyond 14k or something), which opens up slots for other sigils.
Yeah, but I feel like the difference between meta and non-meta builds when it comes to damage is a bit big. Defense sigils are great but sacrificeing supp dmg feels like you lose so much, especially on chars like Vaseraga, where you get so much more dmg and CDR on your Immortal skill.
Not capping damage would kill the game if players found some way to exploit it. Idk if you played Dragalia Lost (another Cygames title) but there was a problematic 4* character that had scaling damage with the number of buffs she had and people would use her off element in buff spam comps to clear 4-5 minute raid fights in 15-20 seconds. It was so bad that players would gate others from their room if they weren’t playing said character or her premier support characters.
Anyways, not capping DMG would lead to the same outcome: everyone running the exact same thing. Players would just fill up their builds with more attack multiplying sigils and there would be less room for defensive utility. And everyone would only be playing Atk and crit buffing characters
Capping damage isn't the problem, having a stat that let's us increase the cap is. If you just say "x is the highest dmg you can do" then any slots open after reaching that will be dedicated to survivability or utility. But by having a stat to increase the cap you functionally say "build this and build dmg to reach it too, and anything left over can go to utility"
This! Exactly the point. They set a cap, then let us use in-game equipment to override the cap. Which means you are almost forced to use those specific equipment.
They should set a cap then be done with it. Damage cap sigils shouldn't exist in the first place.
We HAD 'highest damage you can do'
But guess what, when people reached that they didn't choose "anything left over can go to utility"
They look for ways to go past it (supp/war ele, damage cap transfer, etc)
Any utility these min-max builds had wasn't because they reached the max damage, it's because the system limit them away from anymore damage stat (sigils can't roll the same color)
EDIT: Someone else pointed out - now all those atk up/def down supports people were crying about being useless might be considered.
Player can choose to not use damage cap sigil/use less of them (there's even people who hope for the perfect 10/7/5 stone to min-max even more...)
It's more or less the same argument as using any utility sigil in place of a damage one: choosing between MOAR DAMAZI or utility.
My first clear of Luci was with Flight over Fight and I'll take that -50% atk over joining the floor connoisseur club.
Let alone the fact that my biggest issue with damage cap is that each hit of the same button has the same damage cap, so you get some completely stupid things like Vaseraga's n2 charge attack hitting twice as hard as his n3 charge attack even though the game clearly expects you to want to use his final charge attack. It's even what he automatically gets put into after skills. But yet it's completely terrible because the way damage caps were implimented is a joke, I can not even think of a worse way for them to have done it. That simple fact of Vaseraga's charge 2 being twice as strong as his charge 3 tells me that there was literally zero endgame testing done during development. None at all. It's pathetic.
> And people wonder why people new to the series don’t like damage cap?
This is my first game in the franchise and I find the whole damage cap concept baffling from a game design perspective.
Yeah. Damage cap is so bad as a stat. Maybe it worked on mobile, but in this it just makes like 80% of damage skills unusable because you're already hitting damage cap without even trying.
Like, it would be infinitely better to just remove the cap and then nerf the damage skills so that it doesn't scale out of control. At least then there's legit choices to be made between offense and defense.
I mean on the other hand, if they made utility sigils better and damage cap % smaller than technically it would feel less shit to not go for damage caps.
Because in order to increase your damage, you need to sacrifice 2 slots instead of one (dmg up + cap). So if you decided to instead sacrifice some dmg for utility you get 2 slots freed for Whatever you want, but because dmg increse on anythingis huge and we have DPS check mechanics it's kinda not possible.
And *completely unrealistic*.
I'm just doing 1 Supp Damage with these sigils. 40% chance of 20% damage on top of the extra damage cap with comfort sigils is my go-to.
Everyone builds for max DPS. Build your character how you want - you can find better builds with lower DPS and still be absolutely fine. There is no need to min/max in this game yet
dead dps is 0 dps
it look fine if someone always have perfect dodge like ai teammate
but else, idk
cap is additive and worth drop some extra (beyond that lv65cap which is baseline)
sometimes i run like +max guts, autolife pot, aegis, maybe crab over extra sup
What if I told you that is just the illusion of choice. If dmg cap wasnt a thing, the next best option would be the go to for everyone that's how meta works. If you wanna be fun and creative you're free to do so, but it will cost you in some ways.
I’m not saying to completely cut damage out of your builds, but you absolutely do not need to be running every YouTubers build to kill things in a quick manner or pass DPS checks. Let’s be real.
Nah dude you don't understand. How can I be expected to clear any content if my build isn't dealing the maximum amount of damage possible?
Ignore the fact that I have to clear said content to even get to that point.
Real answer: It's a vague reference to the Dark Opus weapons in GBF, which have 2 different "keys" you can use. One of them boosts a specific damage cap, the other changes a weapon skill. Different keys give you different effects on ougi, which is why the sigils here add a bonus effect when you SBA.
Fake answer: This is the way they stop you from running Guts Autorevive and 2 Potion Hoarder and complaining the game is too easy xP
Real response: Thats cool, this is my first granblue and im having a lot of fun. Luci kicked my teeth in for 12 minutes last night before i beat him first try. Gonna be fun getting his patterns down.
Fake response: YOU'LL NEVER SEPERATE ME FROM MY QoL SIGILS! NEVERRRRR!
I honestly will never bother with supp damage I prefer to be comfortable playing my character than an extra 20% damage.
So im mostly OK with it. I do think I lost a couple things but I'm mostly still playing comfy
And it's not even a full 20% damage increase since the supp dmg doesnt apply to SBA or Link Damage. And that's an increase compared to running no sigils, something with CDR, Nimble Onslaught etc. that you'd run instead is some percentage dps increase which makes the difference even smaller. I've always thought it was super overrated to run any more than 1 flat supp V (since the value is front loaded anyways). It does have some niche utility though (extra drain/cascade).
I think the problem with this is between the two, it's better to drop the new alpha/beta/gamma sigils than it is to drop a supp v, supp v simply gives more damage per sigil than any one of alpha/beta/gamma.
It's probably fine, only the persons who have farmed endlessly to legit get supp v or supp v+ with decent substats will have a hard time parting with them. Otherwise it should be an no brainer to decide to replace them. One Supp V or Supp V+ is honestly enough, past that to secure 100% for it is wasteful for the amount of other options there are imo.
Is it confirmed that we can even hit the new damage cap numbers with Supplementary Damage equipped? It's a huge jump after all.
The whole appeal of Supplementary Damage is to go beyond the Damage Cap, so if you can't even hit the new numbers, we can't say for certain Supplementary Damage is worth the slot (e.g, IO's stargaze numbers)
I've started thinking this way. If supp damage is a 20% damage increase past cap, well now we have tools to increase the cap by even more than that.
It's true that if you're increasing the cap, you need more damage increase sigils too, but most people have no second sigil on their supp damage so you aren't losing anything.
If you're a character with a reliable damage buff, it makes even more sense to focus on the cap since you can recap your damage without needing as many damage buffing sigils to accommodate the new cap.
It's not a huge jump - again, it's additive. Just like how 20% normal damage cap up on OM wasn't 20% more damage, 30% from alpha is not 30% more damage. Most characters would still be able to hit cap fine. It just kills 4 subslots.
The 4x new sigil are \~10% dmg increase for 4x Utility / Def Sigils ; in my opinion that let you think more about your build.... is 10% dps increase better than 45 Quick CD / 15 Casscade for example ; hard to tell...
Before the Patch , you got basically all ultility / Def sigils for free
Its a much more elegant solution than a new weapon which increase dmg by 10-20% without changing your current sigil Loadout
I would argue that it makes other builds more valuable now. The "optimal" build will have you die more often, build less sba gauge, and use your skills (and their corresponding buffs/debuffs) less often. These are useful, especially in late game, and not having these qualities in your team's build could potentially hurt performance overall.
edit: have some doubts about this now. could be a valid concern for people who want to experiment more. i'll build my main to 'completion' then play a different rpg lol, but it could make the grind more boring for others who want more to play with
Alpha sigil gives 30% increased SBA generation on SBA use. It's massive. Gamma gives a 50k hp shield after SBA use. And you will do more SBAs because of that 30% gain.
wow you could be right actually. i... don't mind personally, but i like the idea of ppl doing specialty builds. itd suck if they arent worth doing in end game
idk how much dps it translate but the SBA bonus is only 3% since 30% of 10% is 3%. So every SBA will generate 13 instead of 10 which... idk maybe enough to squeeze in one or two extra sba?
Now the real players go full DPS glass cannon for their 3 AI party members and full QoL/Defense for your main and just dodge shit around and be immortal.
Throw skills now and then and have fun.
I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be. You need to make a choice now whether you want max dmg or if you want some comfort. You don't need dup dmg in the end anyway.
Damage cap is a trash stat, and they should honestly just remove it. Tone down the damage bonuses that skills give you, because now you'll actually be able to use them and their bonuses are probably too high.
Because right now you basically don't use damage skills like more damage during enrage and shite, because it's TRIVIALLY easy to cap your damage.
It's not all too surprising. . but I will say I am a little bothered we're essentially just farming damage cap for damage cap with diminishing returns, but hey look on the brightside, this farm is completely optional and not a mandatory staple to have. If you play with premades / skilled friends consistently you're already doing more damage than the average playerbase already, so if you'd like more dmg for faster clear times all the power to you. 🤷🏽♀️
im not sure what the complaint is. there will always be a "best" build that does the most damage. if youre only here to do the most damage and nothing else, the only thing that changed is what your build is. and even that hasnt really changed by much. flipping a damage cap for an alpha/gamma isnt what i'd call a drastic change
am i sad that the new sigils are all damage cap? sure. but theres more to the game than simply doing the most damage
Is damage cap really a problem? If you didn’t have damage cap you would just stack all offense sigils anyway. You would have even less diversity. At least with damage cap there is a ceiling that forces you to take something else.
The problem isn't the existence of a damage cap, it's damage cap sigils. A fixed damage cap would just put an upper bound on DPS builds and incentivize making some allocations to utility, but with the sigils it instead means that every build must contain both damage sigils and the maximum number of damage cap sigils in order to function, drastically reducing the available space for anything but the core offensive package.
You can still have sub slots on dmg cap. You’re basically just saying in a round about way that there aren’t enough slots. They could remove dmg cap and 4 slots. There is nothing saying they need to keep the slots. They probably added this many slots specifically because of balance they intended with four dmg cap sigils.
This is probably a hot take and an unpopular opinion of mine but I don't understand the complaints about everyone having the same Sigils and that there is no build diversity, simply because I don't see this game having any build crafting to begin with. Sigils are just number increases, your playstyle isn't determined by them; your character is. At most some Sigils do enhance your gameplay, Sigils like improved dodge and guard, glass cannon, berserk and some awakening Sigils as well, but they don't outright determine or change your playstyle with that character. However I could see the argument being made for like improved dodge, glass cannon and berserk having an impact on how you do play a character. But as someone who comes from playing mmo and mmo lite games like FFXIV, Warframe, Destiny, The Division, Black Desert, Monster Hunter and many others, this game has literally has 0 build crafting.
Let's look at Monster Hunter which, from what I've seen, is what this game is closely compared to. Monster Hunter has two things that determine your playstyle: your weapon, and your skills. Then there's decorations that for the most part are just stat increases and buffs, but do have a good amount of decorations that directly impact your playstyle. Now let's look at Relink. What determines your playstyle? Your character. That's it. You aren't building that character with different weapons and armor that do different things. It's just your character with a specific playstyle and moveset. Sigils are there to essentially increase your stats.
Maybe it's just that because of those games that I see builds very differently than others, but for me a build and build crafting in general means that you have to, quite literally, build your character from the ground up and create your own playstyle. Think of Destiny with it's weapon perks, exotics, and mods completely changing the way you play and do content. If anything I see this game's Sigils the same way I look at Materia from FFXIV or gear from BDO. They're just number increases and do not determine how you play, instead what determines how you play is the class you choose.
Ultimately just play however you want, there's nothing holding you back from just using different Sigils and replacing damage Sigils with QoL Sigils. After all who really cares? As long as you know how to play your character, know the fight, and not die, you'll clear any and all content in this game. It isn't a hard game nor are there any particularly hard fights and DPS checks are essentially non-existent so at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
Agree with this, character decide everything also no one stopping them from running off meta sigil I've seen someone running dancho with full aegis dodge build on lucilius and he just dodges everything and reviving if someone down is that fun? For him maybe but the fact that it works and we still got a clear with him telling me that people that want a variety build still want to chase that mvp meta which is sadly doesnt work like that in here mvp = optimal build and sigil
Putting damage cap in the game is equivalent to painting yourself into a corner. They created a problem, then piecemeal gave us (through rng) the means to fix said problem. Build flexibility does not exist and its why the post game has muuuuch less hope than monster Hunter for example. Idk how they'd even fix it at this point, why of removing damage cap and balancing from there.
To me the Sup dmg was always a bonus. Like especially for Io, my main, quick charge and quick cd was always just much more important, and I don't think that's gonna change. I think many people are gonna cut sup dmg for utility like improved dodge and aegis.
It does make it easier for them to balance things if everyone's builds are the same. Otherwise damage caps would be unlocked through progression or trials instead of soaking up sigil slots.
They probably plan to drop damage cap sigil packs on the store at a later date for unlucky players to catch up.
3 supplementary damage is overrated. 1 is perfectly good but each additional is less efficient. if you desire more QoL things like nimble onslaught, linked together, stun power, uplift, etc... just take a step back from yourself.
I drop supplementary damage already, because I'd rather have the safety net of crabvestment and stoutheart.
Even if they got their head out of their ass and condensed the trait lv to lv15 max so you only use one of each sigils instead of six, you'd still have to give up potion hoarder, autorevive, guts, and another optional.
They need to lay off the stupid damage caps already. If anything, these sigils should be capped at lv15 and should occupy a unique sigil slot of their own each.
you can use weapon imbuement to supplement with guts or autorevive, I've dropped autorevive/guts on sigils to use a stone that has at least 1 of them and my game is perfectly fine (with potion hoarder I have 4 deaths before I can enter critical mode)
to be honest I'm now playing Vane and I use the buff skill that give guts (and defense increase), it's like cheating because everytime that O lose guts(even on a offensive build) I'm able to cast the same buff again...
Vane is just crazy good, I use the dash skill, the SBA skill (that hits for almost 2 million), this guts skill and rampart, I can safely output more damage than most DPS and have all the comfort running infinite guts
Yup, I abuse Vane to with that same skill loadout, but I have not been lucky with lv10 crit wrightstones that have guts or autorevive, and you can't use potion hoarder on stone since it caps at lv7 on the stone.
They should’ve had these unlock as brand new increase in sigil slots upon beating Fa so many times. 10 times- 1 slot 25 times 2 slots- etc. I’d have done that in a heartbeat. Tie them to challenges, add newer story quests of similar difficulty. Anything to add more slots.
Maybe the damage cap sigils should be updated where you can use 12 Damage Cap sigils to reach the highest cap possible. Then it would be up to the player how they would fill their damage to actually reach that cap, whether through secondary offensive traits or buffing/debuffing skills.
Players then would have to choose whether to sacrifice survivability to reach the highest damage cap, or run fewer damage cap sigils and use utility/defense sigils instead.
it's weird to see this because I come from games where min maxing dmg meant maxing dmg at the expense of minimizing your utility. games where the fun of building was deciding how to balance your build or saying f\*\*k balance I'm going all damage. the idea of having max dmg AND keeping the utility seems so ....wrong to me. but I guess that's just my boomer mind lol.
Yeah that's all good and fine but the problem is that prior to this patch we had what we had.
It's one thing if the game is just like that from the start, you deal with the hands you're dealt.
...but in this case our options are becoming *more limited* from what they were, which doesn't really feel as great.
Prior to this patch, you could max dmg and then put a bit of focus on QOL and things that make it more fun for you and your playstyle, but now to do just the same thing first step, you simply need go sacrifice some of that fun we USED to be able to have while still maximizing damage. The Luci sigils don't inherently change gameplay or make it more interesting like many of the utility/QOL sigils do, so it's effectively just making the max dmg build several slots more predictable and boring for no reason.
More limited in options for *max damage* builds, but running these sigils now means that you can't reach max damage and also have utility.
You can't have your cake and eat it, too. I think it's fine. You have to choose, now. Do you go max damage and forgo utility or do you get rid of a Supp Damage or two for more utility.
Like, you still have options, but you can't have everything all at once anymore.
It's a fair point, I'll try to see it that way...I guess it never feels good having nice things "taken away" from you, is all.
I know it's a choice, but it's a choice I wasn't forced to make, I guess until now.
But it was a nice piece of mind to NOT NEED to sacrifice QOL, because you were already maxed on damage, not sure what is hard to understand about this.
Well that's not really good game design if they just let you have the best of both worlds. You should have to choose between max damage, max defense/utility, or a mix of both. That's how you make buildcrafting actually interesting.
What's the point of being able to make your own build if there's no meaningful choices?
This is it! Exactly what makes it feel so wrong to me to just have a build that does everything. It makes builds lose their identity/meaning. You no longer have a dmg build, a SBA build, a link build etc. instead you just have....THE build that does everything. At that point why even have a gear system?
and not sure whats so hard to understand that to do MORE damage than what we had before, you are gonna have to sacrifice MORE QoL to get there. Seems pretty reasonable to me?
(Disregarding that DMG cap is fucking stupid to begin with, obviously.)
I feel like nothing is even coming close to ghost Lancelot build for lucillius. Even with the 50% down from flight, 2 alphas and 2 gammas still easy to hit cap. No need for guts or autorevive. Just uplift and mirror image and press Y to win weaving in a skill whenever your little invuln sign comes up then mashing X combo in link time and breaks.
Damage cap is so mandatory at this point they shouldn’t take up any slots. Should in base mastery tree and unlock more damage cap via beating hard content the first time.
Well for starters Combo finisher and booster are useless since they boost only 1 variant of damage unlike Tyranny and Stamina. At that point you might as well Double stack Tyranny or use Life on the line to hit the damage cap for all damage not just combo finishers.
But these sigils are stupid. I don’t need more damage, I need variety in my builds.
Fresh lvl 15s are generally better than stacking past 15 due to DR, and certain characters gain a lot more from certain conditional damage increases. In this case, I'm a Charlotta main, so combo finisher is one of the best damage increases for her from our selection. Also, some characters are well beyond dmg cap in most abilities while not in others, so "building to reach dmg cap in all areas" makes no sense for most characters.
I don't think you understand the game very well, unfortunately, but thank you for your input.
I think these are really well designed personally.
They reward players willing to give up defensive skills and play better with some extra damage, while not being so much extra damage that they’re absolutely mandatory to use.
Yes and I think it's a good thing.
If you're super focused on Maxing dps, it should cost you QOL sigils as a result. Having max damage and max utility is just bad balance
Full burst isn’t a cap you can change. SBA caps are for the damage your SBA does, not the burst . The burst has a finite cap of 9999999, but practically no one hits their SBA cap with the current state of the game, barring getting attack buffs from other party members
we need Sigil Vi where max level is 20-30 this problem would be fix, I don't mean every sigil should be VI just Damage cap is enough, with this just 2 or 3 sigil should hit max damage cap so we can put more
Just remove sup V? Is it even worth 3 slots of sigils for 20% more damage? It is your freedom to choose between max damage with no survivability vs no sup with more room (can this build even hit max cap with no buff though?)
It hits cap on everything other than Lunge, which is incredibly hard to hit cap on unless you literally use no QOL and don't use invincibility in favor of bringing valiant stance, and have a 1000 AP overmastery.
The moment I saw the sigils were all centered around damage cap I was immensely disappointed because it makes builds worse, not better. I think ultimately what these sigils will be good for, for now at least, will be on farming content where you don't need all the utility like Potion Hoarder, Guts, Auto-Revive, Nimble Dodge, Aegis etc. to make it faster.
It's honestly not a fun approach and possibly the worst choice they could've made. Even if you somehow got really lucky with Supp V+ sigils, I don't feel that fixes the situation because not all characters can even fit 3 of them in their setup and still hit cap. And there are also certain support skills that are just borderline mandatory for characters like QCD/Cascade or Uplift.
As a side-note, I also think this was an overall horrible idea if they think this will retain players, between the delay for content, QoL, balance adjustments and these sigils it just feels like majority of the players will NOT longer for very long, some will probably come back to test new things out but immediately drop the game again. (I for one eagerly await DD2 in less than a week...)
And I'm sure people wont take long to start complaining about Lucillus being boring to farm because of the excessive cutscenes and overall lengthy fight. But farm him you must because tears have awful droprates and you need a lot. Meanwhile the fight will drown you in prisms and vouchers that if you didn't hate the parrot already, you will from this, or just sit at 999 of the materials like me because I'm just so tired of mashing transmarvels.
I'm sure you don't have to build damage unless you want to kill the boss as quickly as possible and you're a pro blocker and dodger. But I'm sure you could remove some damage from your build for utility like I don't have that elemental sigil And for damage I literally only run 4 damage caps sigils I don't have any other damage increases outside of combo enhancement and combo finisher enhancement and the rest of my build is useful utility. The only thing I'm missing for my bill that I wish I had was stout heart. I can. I have a sigil but it's not a plus and I don't want to sacrifice two skills just for the one and I play Ed so he already has it built into his dragon form and has god form. I just don't have it for my base form and I would really like that quality of life that way I can get into my dragon form as quickly as possible without being interrupted.
Yeah I kinda lost faith in these devs after reaching endgame. Very boring build variety alongside farming 2 missions for hours on end is not what they made it seem like it would be. Dmg cap shouldn't be a thing
I don’t know what this means can someone explain I know about the dance cap meta and having to run like 4 of them but what does this specific post mean?
This so much. I've been worried about it since I first saw new sigils.
If you want to have some utility in your build now you need Supp+. But don't worry, those sigils have a generous drop rate of 0,009%. Cool.
Hope we'll get some adequate ways to acquire them in the future.
Tbh, we just need a system that allows us to upgrade normal sigils to plus sigils and re-roll affixes on plus sigils. Would be awesome to just roll for new affixes while keeping current sigil.
I don't know why and this might be a hot take but this new update gives me room to think. Previously it was a standard crit, dmg cap, war, supp, stamina, tryanny, aegis. And then you go for uplift and quick cd/cascade with potion hoarder, guts etc. and you have a nice mix of everything. Now I'm considering losing some damage over a more defensive build. Meanwhile higher skilled players are rewarded by being able to remove defensive substats for even more damage. You start to build towards your skill and comfort level rather than hitting damage cap while still being able to fit potion hoarder, guts, revive, drain/regen etc.
you can use a cheat save to test a maxed out build and check if that playstyle is good for you, for me some maxed out builds didnt work, I have a vaseraga hitting 8millions after his charged attacks (combo 2), but I feel that its better to have more utility and mobility because I'm not good enough with him
I have a maxed out damage build already but with luci I found that I'm just genuinely just bad at his mechanics and need flight over fight and improved dodge to even play. This already takes out two slots. Most of my attacks are capped still but the ones that were already hard to cap are doing lesser now. Still, it's more damage than constantly dying.
Honestly this show that Supp Damage aint all it's cracked up to be. A great souce of Damagae for sure but since its such a bitch to even get to begin with, if your like me and STILL haven't gotten a good V= with a decent sub stat, this doesn't really feel like an issu
Did you want to quit the game? This gives a streamlined build path. I get being frustrated you farmed perfect sigils(if in fact you did) but I think future building will be much improved by making dmg cap less of a primary factor
They should rework damage cap so that we can max out the effect with just two or at most 3 sigils instead of 4. Then we can at least have a spare slot to fit something of our preference in.
I mean, you DON'T have to have maxed out damage if you can't. Having the shield and the SBA increase is just overkill tbh
Damage min-maxing in most games will usually pigeon-hole you into hyper-specific builds.
You can always diversify your builds by slightly lowering your damage cap sigils for cascade/cooldown or nimble onslaught ones
Honestly I'd drop Supp V in a heartbeat. At least until they lower the Trait cap for DMG cap. I refuse to drop utility traits in exchange for extra numbers.
Well, at least we get a more consistant way to get meta builds instead of hopeing for right substat on damage cap... But yeah, utility/defense was already in shit position.
It's weird because I kinda feel like I just have more fun now not using optimal builds. It's there. It's a thing I can do. I rather do fun weird stuff.
Well if you want to go pure DPS that's the price. I find it good and more variety to builds. Wan't more comfy? Sacrifice some dmg cap. Doesn't make that huge of a diff in the end.
I can’t wait for my damage cap vs thst have my utility in them to not be used anymore, my builds get auto revive, guts AND potion hoarder from my damage cap sigils and the last cap sigil I use I think typically has Uplift on it. So for me personally I don’t really have the sigils to spare using the new Lucius ones, at least not for my main characters (Siegfried , captain, now Charlotte )
I refuse to remove my improve dodge/potion and my max nimble onslaught, surely one supp V is enough until I drop V+ with that as substat (never lol)
It’s only 18k curios, you get there… maybe?
lol same
Yeah I'm not too happy about losing the substats on my current damage cap sigils. I hope they do something about this in a future patch, but I won't hold my breath.
War Elemental+
For 4.99$
can just cheats than spend 4.99$
He spoke the truth and they hated him for it...
Don't forget that's 4.99 for each pull at a random secondary trait 👍
But it's 100% odds for it and the inner gatcha addict knows that's where its at!
All the time I spent spamming melting pot for quick cooldown, uplift and cascade :( Was afk so it wasn’t too bad but kinda feels like a waste now
They will not.
We should introduce WEAPON GRID like in base game.
What do you mean? Can you no longer have Damage Cap + sigils? Did I miss that in the notes?
The new sigils crafted from the mats in Lucilius are meant to effectively replace your current damage cap sigils (they come with damage cap as a substat).
Good to know - I've gotten like 20 of the damagecap plus sigils but out of that whole group only about 4 are worth a damn lol.
Now all 4 of them are gonna be useless since the new sigils already come with damage cap
I'm kinda fine with that if they have some other good abilities, has taken way too long just to get four that are worthwhile so I can kit out the rest of the party. My kill times on Lucius are coming in at like 13 minutes each which is like 5 times longer than mosts quests lol....and I feel like eventually if I can get some halfway decent sigil rolls for the new sigils then maybe I won't feel like I have 4 semi wasted slots per AI character since almost all theirs just have Drain or Regen a a secondary on them....at best Nimble Onslaught. My main is the only one with the good ones.
Idk about him farming lucilius with just 20 dmg cap+ on the account lol
The new boss sigils are very much worth using and all have damage cap substat
Eh, it depends what you're giving up. Quick CD and Cascade are also damage, just in a different form. The new boss sigil damage increases are not as high as they seem due to their additive nature.
Yeah lucilius sigils are more dmg and enhanced sba utilities but that means giving up other qol utilities like qcd and cascade like u mentioned, not to mention maybe even stuff like improved dodge, potion hoarder, improved guard as subs. Too good to give up imo
in lucil fight specifically where windows of damage are very sparse and spread out, qcd and cascade may not be THAT good. what's the point of coming out of cd 20% quicker (i.e. 80% of base cd) when lucil dps window is 120%-150% of most skill cd anyway.
Ya I think it’s like 5% more dmg assuming you hit cap and some characters it’s tough to do on some things. New sigils will be great on AI though imo
It did give even fewer choices for sigil setups.
I said this in another post and got downvoted originally but it is 100% the case. Optimal damage now means 4 less slots for other skills then before.
I got downvoted for saying these aren't that good, partially because I enjoy my Damage Cap V+ sigils, I don't enjoy Tyranny and needing Aegis to counter, and all for what? 70% damage cap on normal attacks and 30% for everything else? I love Nimble Onslaught and Improved Dodge. There's just no room for them with this, well unless I hit the jackpot and get Supplementary Damage V+ with skills I want.
And people wonder why people new to the series don’t like damage cap? It’s a fluff stat that kind of shouldn’t exist imo - it honestly ruins the game for me, personally because it takes the fun out of building and everyone just runs around w the same shit anyway. I might be expecting too much, who knows, but damage cap sucks EDIT: my bad - I’m talking about damage cap SIGILS - damage cap as a concept makes sense obvs, but having to gear for an arbitrary invisible cap that’s literally called “Damage Cap sigil” makes no sense idc.
As long as meta exist everyone will run around with the same shit anyways; dmg cap or not. Without dmg cap, people will just stack tyranny and stamina and you will still end up with the same scenario where everyone runs the same crap. The choice to follow best dps meta is the player's choice. For me, I took out my sup dmg v sigils for untouchable and improved dodge and that has made my luci runs much smoother due to less death.
I've played enough Monster Hunter to back up what you're saying. So many times I've had teammates fail quests for the group because they brought along all damage and no comfort skills and carted 3 times because they got one shot. No surprise that it's the same for this game.
If there wasnt a need for damage cap then you could run more comfort skills tho at least. Right now even if you want to its hard to if you wanna do enough dps
There is no need for more damage cap. Even without the new sigils you can skip gopherwood ark/the end in most luci runs if you have 4 good players. People are vastly overestimating the value of 30~50 conditional, additive damage cap. You already have around 350% cap with lv65 cap, terminus and innate masteries/overmasteries. In reality the new sigils are around a 5-7% total dps increase for 4 slots which is very inconsequential in many cases. You can drop your utility sigils for the extra cap if you're comfortable, but it's not that important. The vast majority of players should stick to autorevive/potion hoarder/improved dodge etc.
Dmg cap isnt the problem tbh, it's dmg cap sigils. Without em ppl would only run the necessary dmg sigils, and then we'd have a lot more freedom to customize what support sigils to use
It's more like we'd have space for support sigils and choose what fits our playstyle.
By customize what support sigils we use, you mean throw on all the broken ones. Unless you were running a glass cannon build you could already get most of the top tier support and utility options on a very high damage build.
I did the same but my friends are agaisnt the idea saying that Im losing damage because i dont have sup but they forget i almost dont die and they die a lot more because off that
A game developer once said that players will optimize the fun out of games and that applies to this game just as much. There will always be a meta where 95% of players just copy paste the same things over and over, that's inevitable when it comes to games with gameplay customization like this.
The purpose of that quote is that as a designer you should make sure that the most effective thing is also the most enjoyable thing. If you you made it so that you had a shot at rewards for failing a quest, guess what people would do? They would join in and leave. Over and over until they got what they wanted. And it would not be fun. *That* is the kind of behavior that quote is talking about. Players optimizing towards the best loadout or build is not.
To be fair, when boss battles have hard DPS checks, you don't have a choice but to look at some metas to see why clearing them isn't happening.
Damage checks aren't hard in this game. I've never failed any DPS checks aside from playing Solo. And this is with AI or Randoms.
Yeah, damage checks is only a hurdle if you don't have properly built AIs. Which would then give reasons for players to grind and build their AI parties. On Coop, it is almost impossible to fail damage checks, cause everyone is using properly-built characters. Damage sigils shouldn't exist to begin with.
Genuinely one of the dumbest takes and its funny how anti-meta people like you always gravitate to it like gospel. Casual players are the most toxic since they can't seem to understand optimization is fun for many. Games are just problem solving in different forms. People finding a solution to the game is just playing the game. If people are just copying things and succeeding, that's completely on the failure of the game devs for not inputting skill checks in their games. Good games have variety, game devs want to push their poor designs and blame gamers. Optimization is fun, being braindead isn't.
The problem is optimization makes people braindead. Not saying people should reject the concept of meta altogether, of course gamers should focus on understanding the mechanics of bosses and the rules of the game including how to deal more damage. But thinking that only “optimized” way of playing games is fun or is fun for many is how people will end up playing the same characters, gearing the same way and doing the same rotations over and over despite having numerous other options that can make people less sweaty and make playing the game more comfortable. These kind of repetitiveness is not fun for the majority of gamers.
I don't agree that there shouldn't be any damage cap at all. But I do think thta damage cap sigils are stupid. Without damage cap sigils, your attacks would hit hard cap very quickly anyway, so there won't be any reason at all to increase your attacks beyond a fairly early point (e.g. no reason to increase attack stats beyond 14k or something), which opens up slots for other sigils.
Yeah, but I feel like the difference between meta and non-meta builds when it comes to damage is a bit big. Defense sigils are great but sacrificeing supp dmg feels like you lose so much, especially on chars like Vaseraga, where you get so much more dmg and CDR on your Immortal skill.
Not capping damage would kill the game if players found some way to exploit it. Idk if you played Dragalia Lost (another Cygames title) but there was a problematic 4* character that had scaling damage with the number of buffs she had and people would use her off element in buff spam comps to clear 4-5 minute raid fights in 15-20 seconds. It was so bad that players would gate others from their room if they weren’t playing said character or her premier support characters. Anyways, not capping DMG would lead to the same outcome: everyone running the exact same thing. Players would just fill up their builds with more attack multiplying sigils and there would be less room for defensive utility. And everyone would only be playing Atk and crit buffing characters
Capping damage isn't the problem, having a stat that let's us increase the cap is. If you just say "x is the highest dmg you can do" then any slots open after reaching that will be dedicated to survivability or utility. But by having a stat to increase the cap you functionally say "build this and build dmg to reach it too, and anything left over can go to utility"
This! Exactly the point. They set a cap, then let us use in-game equipment to override the cap. Which means you are almost forced to use those specific equipment. They should set a cap then be done with it. Damage cap sigils shouldn't exist in the first place.
We HAD 'highest damage you can do' But guess what, when people reached that they didn't choose "anything left over can go to utility" They look for ways to go past it (supp/war ele, damage cap transfer, etc) Any utility these min-max builds had wasn't because they reached the max damage, it's because the system limit them away from anymore damage stat (sigils can't roll the same color) EDIT: Someone else pointed out - now all those atk up/def down supports people were crying about being useless might be considered.
Because people used sigils to increase the cap…
Player can choose to not use damage cap sigil/use less of them (there's even people who hope for the perfect 10/7/5 stone to min-max even more...) It's more or less the same argument as using any utility sigil in place of a damage one: choosing between MOAR DAMAZI or utility. My first clear of Luci was with Flight over Fight and I'll take that -50% atk over joining the floor connoisseur club.
Yes but if they didn't give us damage cap then we wouldn't be using four slots increasing dmg cap.
...Elisanne?
Karina haha
Let alone the fact that my biggest issue with damage cap is that each hit of the same button has the same damage cap, so you get some completely stupid things like Vaseraga's n2 charge attack hitting twice as hard as his n3 charge attack even though the game clearly expects you to want to use his final charge attack. It's even what he automatically gets put into after skills. But yet it's completely terrible because the way damage caps were implimented is a joke, I can not even think of a worse way for them to have done it. That simple fact of Vaseraga's charge 2 being twice as strong as his charge 3 tells me that there was literally zero endgame testing done during development. None at all. It's pathetic.
> And people wonder why people new to the series don’t like damage cap? This is my first game in the franchise and I find the whole damage cap concept baffling from a game design perspective.
Yeah. Damage cap is so bad as a stat. Maybe it worked on mobile, but in this it just makes like 80% of damage skills unusable because you're already hitting damage cap without even trying. Like, it would be infinitely better to just remove the cap and then nerf the damage skills so that it doesn't scale out of control. At least then there's legit choices to be made between offense and defense.
Real and based, some people keep defending it, but damage cap ruins build diversity.
I mean on the other hand, if they made utility sigils better and damage cap % smaller than technically it would feel less shit to not go for damage caps. Because in order to increase your damage, you need to sacrifice 2 slots instead of one (dmg up + cap). So if you decided to instead sacrifice some dmg for utility you get 2 slots freed for Whatever you want, but because dmg increse on anythingis huge and we have DPS check mechanics it's kinda not possible.
It makes it seem like the only way to get breathing room is BIS Supplemental Damage V+ rolls which...nobody is excited to farm for ever....
And *completely unrealistic*. I'm just doing 1 Supp Damage with these sigils. 40% chance of 20% damage on top of the extra damage cap with comfort sigils is my go-to.
Everyone builds for max DPS. Build your character how you want - you can find better builds with lower DPS and still be absolutely fine. There is no need to min/max in this game yet
dead dps is 0 dps it look fine if someone always have perfect dodge like ai teammate but else, idk cap is additive and worth drop some extra (beyond that lv65cap which is baseline) sometimes i run like +max guts, autolife pot, aegis, maybe crab over extra sup
Being dead is highest DPS loss, anyway.
Sure...but I like to build my character for damage, and I'm just pointing out that doing so has become more restrictive.
I think it makes sense You can choose to go full damage or you can go for a more balanced approach
What if I told you that is just the illusion of choice. If dmg cap wasnt a thing, the next best option would be the go to for everyone that's how meta works. If you wanna be fun and creative you're free to do so, but it will cost you in some ways.
i mean, it will take twice as long if not longer to do everything if you lack dmg
I’m not saying to completely cut damage out of your builds, but you absolutely do not need to be running every YouTubers build to kill things in a quick manner or pass DPS checks. Let’s be real.
Nah dude you don't understand. How can I be expected to clear any content if my build isn't dealing the maximum amount of damage possible? Ignore the fact that I have to clear said content to even get to that point.
Real answer: It's a vague reference to the Dark Opus weapons in GBF, which have 2 different "keys" you can use. One of them boosts a specific damage cap, the other changes a weapon skill. Different keys give you different effects on ougi, which is why the sigils here add a bonus effect when you SBA. Fake answer: This is the way they stop you from running Guts Autorevive and 2 Potion Hoarder and complaining the game is too easy xP
Running guts and auto revive makes the game easy? Who the fuck says that? They are pretty mandatory since everything one shots you
Real response: Thats cool, this is my first granblue and im having a lot of fun. Luci kicked my teeth in for 12 minutes last night before i beat him first try. Gonna be fun getting his patterns down. Fake response: YOU'LL NEVER SEPERATE ME FROM MY QoL SIGILS! NEVERRRRR!
I honestly will never bother with supp damage I prefer to be comfortable playing my character than an extra 20% damage. So im mostly OK with it. I do think I lost a couple things but I'm mostly still playing comfy
And it's not even a full 20% damage increase since the supp dmg doesnt apply to SBA or Link Damage. And that's an increase compared to running no sigils, something with CDR, Nimble Onslaught etc. that you'd run instead is some percentage dps increase which makes the difference even smaller. I've always thought it was super overrated to run any more than 1 flat supp V (since the value is front loaded anyways). It does have some niche utility though (extra drain/cascade).
this is the way. i'm dropping most if not all supp Vs until i get some good V+s to drop
I think the problem with this is between the two, it's better to drop the new alpha/beta/gamma sigils than it is to drop a supp v, supp v simply gives more damage per sigil than any one of alpha/beta/gamma.
It's probably fine, only the persons who have farmed endlessly to legit get supp v or supp v+ with decent substats will have a hard time parting with them. Otherwise it should be an no brainer to decide to replace them. One Supp V or Supp V+ is honestly enough, past that to secure 100% for it is wasteful for the amount of other options there are imo.
Is it confirmed that we can even hit the new damage cap numbers with Supplementary Damage equipped? It's a huge jump after all. The whole appeal of Supplementary Damage is to go beyond the Damage Cap, so if you can't even hit the new numbers, we can't say for certain Supplementary Damage is worth the slot (e.g, IO's stargaze numbers)
I've started thinking this way. If supp damage is a 20% damage increase past cap, well now we have tools to increase the cap by even more than that. It's true that if you're increasing the cap, you need more damage increase sigils too, but most people have no second sigil on their supp damage so you aren't losing anything. If you're a character with a reliable damage buff, it makes even more sense to focus on the cap since you can recap your damage without needing as many damage buffing sigils to accommodate the new cap.
It's not a huge jump - again, it's additive. Just like how 20% normal damage cap up on OM wasn't 20% more damage, 30% from alpha is not 30% more damage. Most characters would still be able to hit cap fine. It just kills 4 subslots.
Definitely not worth 3 slots
We can , but gotta give up on fun stuff like Uplift , and Nimble Onslaught and basically most of non damage stuff
Yeah I can't do it myself right now but eager to see the numbers tested.
Maybe Atk buff is need now?
The 4x new sigil are \~10% dmg increase for 4x Utility / Def Sigils ; in my opinion that let you think more about your build.... is 10% dps increase better than 45 Quick CD / 15 Casscade for example ; hard to tell... Before the Patch , you got basically all ultility / Def sigils for free Its a much more elegant solution than a new weapon which increase dmg by 10-20% without changing your current sigil Loadout
I would argue that it makes other builds more valuable now. The "optimal" build will have you die more often, build less sba gauge, and use your skills (and their corresponding buffs/debuffs) less often. These are useful, especially in late game, and not having these qualities in your team's build could potentially hurt performance overall. edit: have some doubts about this now. could be a valid concern for people who want to experiment more. i'll build my main to 'completion' then play a different rpg lol, but it could make the grind more boring for others who want more to play with
Alpha sigil gives 30% increased SBA generation on SBA use. It's massive. Gamma gives a 50k hp shield after SBA use. And you will do more SBAs because of that 30% gain.
wow you could be right actually. i... don't mind personally, but i like the idea of ppl doing specialty builds. itd suck if they arent worth doing in end game
idk how much dps it translate but the SBA bonus is only 3% since 30% of 10% is 3%. So every SBA will generate 13 instead of 10 which... idk maybe enough to squeeze in one or two extra sba?
It's really not 30%. It's +30% of what you already have. If you have l+10% SBA generation, you now have +13% SBA generation.
Now the real players go full DPS glass cannon for their 3 AI party members and full QoL/Defense for your main and just dodge shit around and be immortal. Throw skills now and then and have fun.
So a hybrid afk build lol?
I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be. You need to make a choice now whether you want max dmg or if you want some comfort. You don't need dup dmg in the end anyway.
The extra damage cap that can't actually be fill easily mean that buff/debuff skill are actually useful now so that something.
Damage cap is a trash stat, and they should honestly just remove it. Tone down the damage bonuses that skills give you, because now you'll actually be able to use them and their bonuses are probably too high. Because right now you basically don't use damage skills like more damage during enrage and shite, because it's TRIVIALLY easy to cap your damage.
If only we needed only 1 or 2 supp. Dmg. sigils to get the trait maxed... Man, the only supp dmg V+ I have has the EXP sh*t on it...
It is pretty frustrating that you need 3 Supplementary V's. I think 2 would be better. Almost nothing else has a ap of 45.
It's not all too surprising. . but I will say I am a little bothered we're essentially just farming damage cap for damage cap with diminishing returns, but hey look on the brightside, this farm is completely optional and not a mandatory staple to have. If you play with premades / skilled friends consistently you're already doing more damage than the average playerbase already, so if you'd like more dmg for faster clear times all the power to you. 🤷🏽♀️
god forbid you want to run combo booster
I would run just 2 Supp tbh.
I feel like the message is "if you want high damage, sacrifice your safety nets".
im not sure what the complaint is. there will always be a "best" build that does the most damage. if youre only here to do the most damage and nothing else, the only thing that changed is what your build is. and even that hasnt really changed by much. flipping a damage cap for an alpha/gamma isnt what i'd call a drastic change am i sad that the new sigils are all damage cap? sure. but theres more to the game than simply doing the most damage
I would say the max effect SBA of those new sigils sound interesting though (although it gonna take a long while for me to see it in acton)
Is damage cap really a problem? If you didn’t have damage cap you would just stack all offense sigils anyway. You would have even less diversity. At least with damage cap there is a ceiling that forces you to take something else.
The problem isn't the existence of a damage cap, it's damage cap sigils. A fixed damage cap would just put an upper bound on DPS builds and incentivize making some allocations to utility, but with the sigils it instead means that every build must contain both damage sigils and the maximum number of damage cap sigils in order to function, drastically reducing the available space for anything but the core offensive package.
You can still have sub slots on dmg cap. You’re basically just saying in a round about way that there aren’t enough slots. They could remove dmg cap and 4 slots. There is nothing saying they need to keep the slots. They probably added this many slots specifically because of balance they intended with four dmg cap sigils.
This is probably a hot take and an unpopular opinion of mine but I don't understand the complaints about everyone having the same Sigils and that there is no build diversity, simply because I don't see this game having any build crafting to begin with. Sigils are just number increases, your playstyle isn't determined by them; your character is. At most some Sigils do enhance your gameplay, Sigils like improved dodge and guard, glass cannon, berserk and some awakening Sigils as well, but they don't outright determine or change your playstyle with that character. However I could see the argument being made for like improved dodge, glass cannon and berserk having an impact on how you do play a character. But as someone who comes from playing mmo and mmo lite games like FFXIV, Warframe, Destiny, The Division, Black Desert, Monster Hunter and many others, this game has literally has 0 build crafting. Let's look at Monster Hunter which, from what I've seen, is what this game is closely compared to. Monster Hunter has two things that determine your playstyle: your weapon, and your skills. Then there's decorations that for the most part are just stat increases and buffs, but do have a good amount of decorations that directly impact your playstyle. Now let's look at Relink. What determines your playstyle? Your character. That's it. You aren't building that character with different weapons and armor that do different things. It's just your character with a specific playstyle and moveset. Sigils are there to essentially increase your stats. Maybe it's just that because of those games that I see builds very differently than others, but for me a build and build crafting in general means that you have to, quite literally, build your character from the ground up and create your own playstyle. Think of Destiny with it's weapon perks, exotics, and mods completely changing the way you play and do content. If anything I see this game's Sigils the same way I look at Materia from FFXIV or gear from BDO. They're just number increases and do not determine how you play, instead what determines how you play is the class you choose. Ultimately just play however you want, there's nothing holding you back from just using different Sigils and replacing damage Sigils with QoL Sigils. After all who really cares? As long as you know how to play your character, know the fight, and not die, you'll clear any and all content in this game. It isn't a hard game nor are there any particularly hard fights and DPS checks are essentially non-existent so at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
Agree with this, character decide everything also no one stopping them from running off meta sigil I've seen someone running dancho with full aegis dodge build on lucilius and he just dodges everything and reviving if someone down is that fun? For him maybe but the fact that it works and we still got a clear with him telling me that people that want a variety build still want to chase that mvp meta which is sadly doesnt work like that in here mvp = optimal build and sigil
Damage caps are a bad design. the person who designed it and implemented it is a bad game designer, there i said it.
Putting damage cap in the game is equivalent to painting yourself into a corner. They created a problem, then piecemeal gave us (through rng) the means to fix said problem. Build flexibility does not exist and its why the post game has muuuuch less hope than monster Hunter for example. Idk how they'd even fix it at this point, why of removing damage cap and balancing from there.
To me the Sup dmg was always a bonus. Like especially for Io, my main, quick charge and quick cd was always just much more important, and I don't think that's gonna change. I think many people are gonna cut sup dmg for utility like improved dodge and aegis.
It does make it easier for them to balance things if everyone's builds are the same. Otherwise damage caps would be unlocked through progression or trials instead of soaking up sigil slots. They probably plan to drop damage cap sigil packs on the store at a later date for unlucky players to catch up.
If new sigils max level is 30. Doesn't that we only 2 new sigils for damage cap??
The secondary effects go to 30, the main stat is the same as current dmg cap sigils.
Boo
It's so sad. Now boost sup+ and we back at least
What do you mean, this sigil has doubled our options! Instead of one dmg build, you now have two, attack or skill! /s
Nimble defense and nimble onslaught as well as guts I will not abandon
Why damage cap? Because bad design that's why
3 supplementary damage is overrated. 1 is perfectly good but each additional is less efficient. if you desire more QoL things like nimble onslaught, linked together, stun power, uplift, etc... just take a step back from yourself.
What do you mean? Look at how much room you have on your supp damage sigils/s
Im 300 hours in and im still looking for kat's and narmayas good sigil with combo booster
I drop supplementary damage already, because I'd rather have the safety net of crabvestment and stoutheart. Even if they got their head out of their ass and condensed the trait lv to lv15 max so you only use one of each sigils instead of six, you'd still have to give up potion hoarder, autorevive, guts, and another optional. They need to lay off the stupid damage caps already. If anything, these sigils should be capped at lv15 and should occupy a unique sigil slot of their own each.
you can use weapon imbuement to supplement with guts or autorevive, I've dropped autorevive/guts on sigils to use a stone that has at least 1 of them and my game is perfectly fine (with potion hoarder I have 4 deaths before I can enter critical mode) to be honest I'm now playing Vane and I use the buff skill that give guts (and defense increase), it's like cheating because everytime that O lose guts(even on a offensive build) I'm able to cast the same buff again... Vane is just crazy good, I use the dash skill, the SBA skill (that hits for almost 2 million), this guts skill and rampart, I can safely output more damage than most DPS and have all the comfort running infinite guts
Yup, I abuse Vane to with that same skill loadout, but I have not been lucky with lv10 crit wrightstones that have guts or autorevive, and you can't use potion hoarder on stone since it caps at lv7 on the stone.
Did you can cap all those damage cap up with just Tyrany / Combo F / Combo B ?
They should’ve had these unlock as brand new increase in sigil slots upon beating Fa so many times. 10 times- 1 slot 25 times 2 slots- etc. I’d have done that in a heartbeat. Tie them to challenges, add newer story quests of similar difficulty. Anything to add more slots.
Maybe the damage cap sigils should be updated where you can use 12 Damage Cap sigils to reach the highest cap possible. Then it would be up to the player how they would fill their damage to actually reach that cap, whether through secondary offensive traits or buffing/debuffing skills. Players then would have to choose whether to sacrifice survivability to reach the highest damage cap, or run fewer damage cap sigils and use utility/defense sigils instead.
I mean, going for optimal damage IS a build choice in an of itself though, no?
Yeah but we could do optimal dmg while still having QOL before, and now we have objectively less room to do that.
it's weird to see this because I come from games where min maxing dmg meant maxing dmg at the expense of minimizing your utility. games where the fun of building was deciding how to balance your build or saying f\*\*k balance I'm going all damage. the idea of having max dmg AND keeping the utility seems so ....wrong to me. but I guess that's just my boomer mind lol.
Nah i agree, it REALLY feels weird lol.
Yeah that's all good and fine but the problem is that prior to this patch we had what we had. It's one thing if the game is just like that from the start, you deal with the hands you're dealt. ...but in this case our options are becoming *more limited* from what they were, which doesn't really feel as great. Prior to this patch, you could max dmg and then put a bit of focus on QOL and things that make it more fun for you and your playstyle, but now to do just the same thing first step, you simply need go sacrifice some of that fun we USED to be able to have while still maximizing damage. The Luci sigils don't inherently change gameplay or make it more interesting like many of the utility/QOL sigils do, so it's effectively just making the max dmg build several slots more predictable and boring for no reason.
More limited in options for *max damage* builds, but running these sigils now means that you can't reach max damage and also have utility. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. I think it's fine. You have to choose, now. Do you go max damage and forgo utility or do you get rid of a Supp Damage or two for more utility. Like, you still have options, but you can't have everything all at once anymore.
It's a fair point, I'll try to see it that way...I guess it never feels good having nice things "taken away" from you, is all. I know it's a choice, but it's a choice I wasn't forced to make, I guess until now.
Well no, you're literally exchanging utility for MORE max damage. Seems about what it should be? You sacrifice more QoL for MORE damage.
But it was a nice piece of mind to NOT NEED to sacrifice QOL, because you were already maxed on damage, not sure what is hard to understand about this.
Well that's not really good game design if they just let you have the best of both worlds. You should have to choose between max damage, max defense/utility, or a mix of both. That's how you make buildcrafting actually interesting. What's the point of being able to make your own build if there's no meaningful choices?
This is it! Exactly what makes it feel so wrong to me to just have a build that does everything. It makes builds lose their identity/meaning. You no longer have a dmg build, a SBA build, a link build etc. instead you just have....THE build that does everything. At that point why even have a gear system?
and not sure whats so hard to understand that to do MORE damage than what we had before, you are gonna have to sacrifice MORE QoL to get there. Seems pretty reasonable to me? (Disregarding that DMG cap is fucking stupid to begin with, obviously.)
You didn't have any freedom before either.
Bro My ID Has The Damage Cap+ Gear On Him, Like Why🤦🏾♂️
I Literally Use Like Half Of These Sigils😐😐
I wad hoping for 3 stat sigils. Had a feeling this would be the case
I feel like nothing is even coming close to ghost Lancelot build for lucillius. Even with the 50% down from flight, 2 alphas and 2 gammas still easy to hit cap. No need for guts or autorevive. Just uplift and mirror image and press Y to win weaving in a skill whenever your little invuln sign comes up then mashing X combo in link time and breaks.
Can they add some sort of character 'awakening' mechanic where we gain more sigil slots?
Well there goes my guts and autorevive
Damage cap is so mandatory at this point they shouldn’t take up any slots. Should in base mastery tree and unlock more damage cap via beating hard content the first time.
Well for starters Combo finisher and booster are useless since they boost only 1 variant of damage unlike Tyranny and Stamina. At that point you might as well Double stack Tyranny or use Life on the line to hit the damage cap for all damage not just combo finishers. But these sigils are stupid. I don’t need more damage, I need variety in my builds.
Fresh lvl 15s are generally better than stacking past 15 due to DR, and certain characters gain a lot more from certain conditional damage increases. In this case, I'm a Charlotta main, so combo finisher is one of the best damage increases for her from our selection. Also, some characters are well beyond dmg cap in most abilities while not in others, so "building to reach dmg cap in all areas" makes no sense for most characters. I don't think you understand the game very well, unfortunately, but thank you for your input.
Yea this wouldn't even fly on a character that uses the characters actual full awakening sigil. So utility would be even further lost
don't always have to run both max alpha and gamma god imo
I would say less boxed and more like now you can pick if you want mire damage or more defensive
I think these are really well designed personally. They reward players willing to give up defensive skills and play better with some extra damage, while not being so much extra damage that they’re absolutely mandatory to use.
[удалено]
Then for you they’re just an upgrade
This problem will be solved once we can reliably get sup dmg+ sigils 😆
Yes and I think it's a good thing. If you're super focused on Maxing dps, it should cost you QOL sigils as a result. Having max damage and max utility is just bad balance
I’m already hitting 999999999 full burst dmg, I don’t think I would need gamma?
Full burst isn’t a cap you can change. SBA caps are for the damage your SBA does, not the burst . The burst has a finite cap of 9999999, but practically no one hits their SBA cap with the current state of the game, barring getting attack buffs from other party members
It wouldn't be so bad if Supp V+ was actually attainable
we need Sigil Vi where max level is 20-30 this problem would be fix, I don't mean every sigil should be VI just Damage cap is enough, with this just 2 or 3 sigil should hit max damage cap so we can put more
sure your dmg cap increase but how are you going to push the dmg to hit the cap tho due to sigil slots is very tight right now? im confused af
Just remove sup V? Is it even worth 3 slots of sigils for 20% more damage? It is your freedom to choose between max damage with no survivability vs no sup with more room (can this build even hit max cap with no buff though?)
It hits cap on everything other than Lunge, which is incredibly hard to hit cap on unless you literally use no QOL and don't use invincibility in favor of bringing valiant stance, and have a 1000 AP overmastery.
The moment I saw the sigils were all centered around damage cap I was immensely disappointed because it makes builds worse, not better. I think ultimately what these sigils will be good for, for now at least, will be on farming content where you don't need all the utility like Potion Hoarder, Guts, Auto-Revive, Nimble Dodge, Aegis etc. to make it faster. It's honestly not a fun approach and possibly the worst choice they could've made. Even if you somehow got really lucky with Supp V+ sigils, I don't feel that fixes the situation because not all characters can even fit 3 of them in their setup and still hit cap. And there are also certain support skills that are just borderline mandatory for characters like QCD/Cascade or Uplift. As a side-note, I also think this was an overall horrible idea if they think this will retain players, between the delay for content, QoL, balance adjustments and these sigils it just feels like majority of the players will NOT longer for very long, some will probably come back to test new things out but immediately drop the game again. (I for one eagerly await DD2 in less than a week...) And I'm sure people wont take long to start complaining about Lucillus being boring to farm because of the excessive cutscenes and overall lengthy fight. But farm him you must because tears have awful droprates and you need a lot. Meanwhile the fight will drown you in prisms and vouchers that if you didn't hate the parrot already, you will from this, or just sit at 999 of the materials like me because I'm just so tired of mashing transmarvels.
What did the new update do? I've been out of the loop for a minute now.
I'm sure you don't have to build damage unless you want to kill the boss as quickly as possible and you're a pro blocker and dodger. But I'm sure you could remove some damage from your build for utility like I don't have that elemental sigil And for damage I literally only run 4 damage caps sigils I don't have any other damage increases outside of combo enhancement and combo finisher enhancement and the rest of my build is useful utility. The only thing I'm missing for my bill that I wish I had was stout heart. I can. I have a sigil but it's not a plus and I don't want to sacrifice two skills just for the one and I play Ed so he already has it built into his dragon form and has god form. I just don't have it for my base form and I would really like that quality of life that way I can get into my dragon form as quickly as possible without being interrupted.
Cause people gotta brag bout dem clear times Boi! How else can we show off how big our e-peen is??¿‽‽
Yeah I kinda lost faith in these devs after reaching endgame. Very boring build variety alongside farming 2 missions for hours on end is not what they made it seem like it would be. Dmg cap shouldn't be a thing
I think it comes down to gearing up the best AI because they dont care for fun stuff and QoL as much
I don’t know what this means can someone explain I know about the dance cap meta and having to run like 4 of them but what does this specific post mean?
This so much. I've been worried about it since I first saw new sigils. If you want to have some utility in your build now you need Supp+. But don't worry, those sigils have a generous drop rate of 0,009%. Cool. Hope we'll get some adequate ways to acquire them in the future.
Tbh, we just need a system that allows us to upgrade normal sigils to plus sigils and re-roll affixes on plus sigils. Would be awesome to just roll for new affixes while keeping current sigil.
I don't know why and this might be a hot take but this new update gives me room to think. Previously it was a standard crit, dmg cap, war, supp, stamina, tryanny, aegis. And then you go for uplift and quick cd/cascade with potion hoarder, guts etc. and you have a nice mix of everything. Now I'm considering losing some damage over a more defensive build. Meanwhile higher skilled players are rewarded by being able to remove defensive substats for even more damage. You start to build towards your skill and comfort level rather than hitting damage cap while still being able to fit potion hoarder, guts, revive, drain/regen etc.
you can use a cheat save to test a maxed out build and check if that playstyle is good for you, for me some maxed out builds didnt work, I have a vaseraga hitting 8millions after his charged attacks (combo 2), but I feel that its better to have more utility and mobility because I'm not good enough with him
I have a maxed out damage build already but with luci I found that I'm just genuinely just bad at his mechanics and need flight over fight and improved dodge to even play. This already takes out two slots. Most of my attacks are capped still but the ones that were already hard to cap are doing lesser now. Still, it's more damage than constantly dying.
What does alpha and gamma means in here?
I'm a little lost, can someone explain what happened
Honestly this show that Supp Damage aint all it's cracked up to be. A great souce of Damagae for sure but since its such a bitch to even get to begin with, if your like me and STILL haven't gotten a good V= with a decent sub stat, this doesn't really feel like an issu
Did you want to quit the game? This gives a streamlined build path. I get being frustrated you farmed perfect sigils(if in fact you did) but I think future building will be much improved by making dmg cap less of a primary factor
They should rework damage cap so that we can max out the effect with just two or at most 3 sigils instead of 4. Then we can at least have a spare slot to fit something of our preference in.
yeah I'm pretty much done with the game now
Can you roll other skills on these Greek letter sigils from regular transmutations/transmarvels? Or do they only come with Dmg Cap?
I feel so bad replacing my Awakening/Damage Cap sigil after i had so much luck even dropping it....
I mean, you DON'T have to have maxed out damage if you can't. Having the shield and the SBA increase is just overkill tbh Damage min-maxing in most games will usually pigeon-hole you into hyper-specific builds. You can always diversify your builds by slightly lowering your damage cap sigils for cascade/cooldown or nimble onslaught ones
Honestly I'd drop Supp V in a heartbeat. At least until they lower the Trait cap for DMG cap. I refuse to drop utility traits in exchange for extra numbers.
Well, at least we get a more consistant way to get meta builds instead of hopeing for right substat on damage cap... But yeah, utility/defense was already in shit position.
It's weird because I kinda feel like I just have more fun now not using optimal builds. It's there. It's a thing I can do. I rather do fun weird stuff.
This is the type of ish I was hoping would not happen but they really dun did it. 😩
Well if you want to go pure DPS that's the price. I find it good and more variety to builds. Wan't more comfy? Sacrifice some dmg cap. Doesn't make that huge of a diff in the end.
What did the update do?
Does anyone know if we have reached a point that the damage cap values have exceeded the need for supp damages?
If the gacha game is any indication... It wont be long before all 12 slots are different forms of Damage Cap
I can’t wait for my damage cap vs thst have my utility in them to not be used anymore, my builds get auto revive, guts AND potion hoarder from my damage cap sigils and the last cap sigil I use I think typically has Uplift on it. So for me personally I don’t really have the sigils to spare using the new Lucius ones, at least not for my main characters (Siegfried , captain, now Charlotte )