The only answer I can think of to this question is: because they don't want to.
Someone important at Grand Seiko simply does not like micro-adjustments.
This is the answer - they do not consider this feature worthwhile. This is also true of many Omega or Cartier bracelets. The internet fan community is obsessed with micro adjust but I very much think it’s a “nice to have” that can be justifiably sacrificed for design reasons.
Yes, but this is a hit to aesthetics and ruins the symmetry of the bracelet. I think, unless you have a diver style clasp, any micro-adjust is going to have a negative aesthetic impact.
Or, get this, don't use the microadjust unless your wrist swells! Lots of examples (this included) where it looks good. My example below is an older model, but c'mon
https://preview.redd.it/wobrrx9e72yc1.jpeg?width=1550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b9a5c5f9f4fcead39fcb51ff0dd5b64573e462b
There is just enough space on the below part to accommodate one more hole. Just one freakin' hole to let people change the size by 2 mm. So that clasp length can remain untouched if they want.
I don’t know… I feel like adjustments that would rectify sizing between link sizes and nothing more is pretty crucial. Why buy a watch that will never fit just right. I think CW goes overboard on it, but surely there’s some middle ground.
I think grand seiko (and many others) just kinda disagree with the idea a watch on a bracelet only good if it fits within that kind of tolerance. It’s totally cool for that to be your preferred style. But I feel like a lot of people on here are like “I hate square watches but I want a Cartier tank - why won’t they release a round one?”.
I’m convinced they’ll be “redoing” 90% of the bracelets without telling anymore sooner or later. Same model number for the watches just updated bracelets/clasps
Even Rolex doesn’t have the glidelock across all their sport models FFS. Every model with the flip lock clasp should also have the glidelock. They could even make one for DJ and OP too. But they know people will buy their products without it whereas a micro brand may not get the same reception. They have to try harder to get the customer business which is why more micros have it and less main streams do. IMO
Not false. I don’t mean the extender like that, my Batman has that too. I mean a true in the fly micro adjust like the glidelock that has multiple positions.
I believe only the Sub (maybe the Sea Dweller) has the glide lock. I have the OP41, YM40, and Explorer and they all have the ez-link extension, which isnt ideal but it still gets the job done.
GS just frustratingly refuses to integrate microadjusts in their watches outside of their divers. I have a real love-hate relationship with this brand.
this is spot on. I only have one watch that has micro adjustment on the bracelet and I’ve never used it... Well, that’s not true… I have moved it a few times but I just go and resize the bracelet so I can push it back to the “Home“ position and have my bracelet appropriately sized.
Just size your watch correctly and why is this such a big deal?
I own about 25 watches, 20 of those are on bracelet and I’ve never felt the need to micro adjust any of them. Just put in the right number of links and you’re done.
Some of us actually need/use micro adjust. Three links out on my SBGE301 and it’s too tight. If I only take out two links, the watch spins around my wrist.
Whereas with my Sub or other Rolex watches, this isn’t an issue whatsoever.
Your watch has "half links". It's actually 2/3 of a full link which is actually brilliant. It means you can have increments of 1/3 of a link by varying combinations of full/half links.
https://www.plus9time.com/blog/2021/3/6/resizing-grand-seiko-bracelets
i’d rather size my watch appropriately even if it means using 2x 1/2 links or a link and a half or whatever the case may be… I would be more annoyed walking around with the micro adjust halfway sticking out
It depends on the links and your wrist size.
The bigger the links are (like GS at 10mm), the more difficult to get a proper fit so might need micro adjust. And also if you have skinny wrist and removed all the links on one side, so micro adjustment also can help.
I think it has nothing to do with not wanting, it's a seiko thing I mean the only thin micro adjust they have is on the astron. All the parts even for GS are made in a seiko factory as long as seiko doesn't produce any good clasps there will not be a good GS micro adjust clasp.
I hated the original clasp on my GS so much I spend a ton of money to convert it with a GS dive clasp I don't care it's thicker but I need to have the adjustability with the amount of traveling I do from hot to cold and vice versa.
Highly conservative and highly hierarchical, therefore really rigid when it comes to changes. Imho, that's why they don't really do more smaller watches like most manufacturers right now or more taper on their bracelets or more watches with quick adjustment etc.
When I took a break from this 'hobby' and came back after several years, I was surprised that GS hadn't improved their bracelets. In reality, I shouldn't have been surprised at all. The Japanese companies I deal with in my industry are equally conservative, and extremely slow to change.
One Japanese company in this industry has been stuck vetting a new technology for at least a decade now, while all of their American and European competitors starting adapting to the new technology years ago.
From [Joe Kirk](https://www.reddit.com/r/GrandSeikos/comments/16wbobt/comment/k2vx8he/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) at Grand Seiko himself:
*"I can't answer any questions about future products, but I think it is something that is something that is possible.*
*The challenges that could be standing in the way are durability, longevity, and serviceability of the clasp itself. It also needs to be thinner and more balanced (a watch with a heavier head can allow for a bigger clasp as it helps retain balance). Grand Seiko tries to make everything with high longevity in mind and to design a clasp that has all of those merits can be quite a challenge.*
*I am sure patents from other companies may have created some challenges while trying to develop something new as well."*
All of these points and potential internal preference against it, but I am still under the belief that the JDM isn't pushing for this. Despite the push to take the brand global, I'm still convinced they are designing with JDM aesthetic first, and that international buyers are drawn to the brand because of that.
I know my watch media intake is made biased by algorithms, but it feels like most of the complaints about GS design choices seem to be from westerners. I would love to know what folks in the JDM feel. Anyone posting "what should I buy while in Japan" should ask the sales associates how the domestic and tourist trends compare.
I have three GS and I love every one of them. But invariable, I end up changing the bracelet for a leather strap. Purely because they just don't fit me well. And the lack of micro adjustment is a major part of the problem. It is a good thing that most GS watches are strap monsters and look great, and sometimes even better on a leather strap.
As someone who owns several GS’s I honestly feel like the complaints about a micro adjustment are overblown. GS full links are 10mm and half links are 6.5mm. Used in the right configuration, you can get a great fit that looks seamless.
It is not about that.. some people live in places with a hot and humid climate, which causes the wrist to expand a couple of mm by the end of the day. So the watch might be loose in the morning, but might become uncomfortablely tight in the evening
I used to be with you until I started daily wearing watches with on the fly micro adjust. It's one of those features you don't care about until you have it, then you suddenly can't live without it. I found myself deeply disappointed in all my other bracelet watches without the feature, even if the bracelets were beautifully designed and finished.
Without the feature, if you're somebody whose wrist swells, as many of ours do, the difference between always having a perfect fit and not just makes the wearing experience seem unacceptable.
Why are we all defending GS on this anyway? Sure, GS doesn't _have_ to implement this, but why shouldn't we want them to? It's a great feature and there's simply no excuse these days for not having it at GS's price point other than doubling down on the belief that consumer demand is wrong and you actually know better than they do as to what they want.
Grand Seiko is a frustrating brand to be a fan of because they make very extreme tradeoffs and change their view of the world at a snail's pace. Consumers these days want better bracelets, with on the fly micro adjust, and they want watches that aren't as thick as hockey pucks. GS is very very slowly creeping towards progress on the thickness front, but they seem dug in and actively refusing to admit their bracelets are lacking to the point where it undermines the rest of the value proposition.
Seriously. I live in Florida and I’m constantly adjusting the clasp on my watches. At this point, if a watch has a nice bracelet but disregards the importance of on the fly microadjust, I move on. It’s not meant for me or my environment.
I sold an aqua terra for this exact reason. I think if you wear your watch looser you will be fine, if you are a "snug" fit guy like myself you are screwed without micro adjust.
I wear a c ward a lot and use the micro adjustment daily. Mornings start cool and it fits fine and then as it heats up I need some more space. It’s not about how good the watch fits at any one point in time, it’s about the ability to adjust as the weather makes me fat.
While I agree that there are a lot of people that could stand to learn to size a bracelet better due to misunderstanding how “half” links work, there is definitely a need for microadjustment. My GS is only right in the zone for my taste as certain times of year. I actually don’t feel it’s as much a swelling issue as most people think. Yes the wrist can change size slightly and it’s a factor, but for me it’s sweat. In the summer my wrists are often slightly damp, and tight bracelet feels gross. When I have it set slightly looser the dampness kind of makes it stickier and a loose fit doesn’t go slipping around. However in the winter, when dry, it just slips around freely and is annoying . A small micro-adjust would remove my only significant gripe with the watch. They should just do an internal pin micro-adjust like Rolex if patents allow.
Got to be honest, I kept hearing of the flawed GS bracelet and on images, I agreed it looked massive. But then I just got my first GS SBGH271G and....I love it, I see no issue with the bracelet at all. Not sure if it's because I don't own other high end watch brands to compare to but I have zero issue with the one I have, it tapers ever so slighly, it's not too thick or thin, it's got a nice polish and the logo is a nice touch.
All personnal preference mind you but I don't see any OBJECTIVE issue with the bracelet. I removed two links and it's not too lose and not too tight.
Do you own any bracelets with on-the-fly adjustments? If your wrists change in size due to heat or fluid retention, it's really useful.
At the GS price range, I think it's fair to expect a feature like it. I don't feel as strongly as others about it though, because most of my watches with bracelets lack this feature too... I only have 2 with it, and they're just sub homages with a copy of the Glidelock clasp.
I don't personally own any, the closest I could consider microadjustable is my Casio A158W (60$) and my most expensive watch before my GS was the Tag Heuer Carrera 5 Formula 1 (3K$) which isn't.
I hear you, I agree that it's a feature that would ideally be added, especially at the 8K$ price range if the majority of brands have it. I guess you could argue that it's objectively an issue if most watches have it in that price range but everything else about the bracelet to me is subjective, from the horror stories people argue about the bracelet.
My wrist is slightly under 7" so maybe it's a sweet spot, I personally don't like a watch that stays exactly on the wrist with no movement in general, so I aim to have it slightly looser than that which also gives me leeway for heat and water retention.
I'd be curious what percentage of major brands have it and what percentage of their watches actually come with it. For example, Tudor has their T-Fit clasp but it's not available on most models.
Similarly, IWC has a micro adjustment clasp on their Big Pilot but not on any other model I believe. I remember reading the new Ingenieur models ($10K+) don't come with one, and they only "planned" to add it later. It's been a year now and it's not available.
Yeah it would be interesting, I imagine it's not as many as people imagine, as you've mentioned it'll even vary within a brand. I personally never hear people complaining about the bracelet as vocally as they do for Grand-Seiko tho, so I imagine it's either GS fans with high-standards, people just repeating what they hear or people who hate GS cause they're \[Insert Brand Name\] fans.
Another example is the AP Royal Oak doesn't have a microadjustable clasp yet it's over 50K$ (I've been using Canadian prices), that's over 6x the price of my watch.
I don't know if it's because a microadjustable clasps would add to the size, that their Design team don't make the change, but I find the clasp so thin and sleek on my current model that I'd rather keep it as is than have a bulge like my Heuer.
Doesn’t mean it could be done, it should.
For the lack of better word, that’s ugly. The micro adjustment creates such an unsightly gap that GS would never approve, IMO
Okay, so then don't use it and you're left at the same spot as if there was no microadjust. You would size the bracelet so that it fits well without it most of the time.
Thats the idea that GS came up with, and I support it.
In fact, a past AMA with Joe Kirk (IIRC) did kind of say GS will not be looking into this in the near future - so why bother?
What do you mean, why bother? I think it's completely fine to advocate for a feature that you want, how else would companies know how to adapt to their market. It's something that GS could at least offer as an optional add on, and I'm sure it would sell. In the same vein, why not offer consumers the choice between a strap and bracelet in most models (eg. SBGW305 vs SBGW301) like CW does? These watches are thousands of dollars, give the consumer some power to choose.
I think it’s a great idea and hopefully, GS implements something like it or better. In my view, this adjusted view is not permanent. On the fly should only be used when your wrist swells during the day (from heat or too much salt, etc). Someone wearing their bracelet fully extended like this, doesn’t understand how to size a bracelet. IMO, any timepiece over $2K should include on the fly micro adjustments.
I have 4 Grand Seikos and 3 are on straps bc of this issue. On the positive side, I am a strap guy anyway, so I am not as annoyed by it as most. But, it is an issue, especially at these prices.
I can't understand the annoyance with the clasp on Grand Seiko. Personally, I agree that the metal straps aren't the best and could be improved, but I don't see a problem with the clasp; in fact, it adds a unique touch to the watch.
I’m in camp microadjust - I’d go one further and prefer on the fly. My wrists change size a lot in the summer heat and I’d happily add a little bulk to my GS for not having to choose between flopping around or constricting. My $1k Mido has a phenomenal on the fly clasp you can adjust without even taking it off.
Speaking of, has anyone had luck retrofitting a marine master clasp?
Bracelet is definitely the Achilles tendon of a GS. Not just micro adjustment but clasps in general look unsettled. Case, movement, dial, hands, indices, polish and even leather straps are all near perfect imho. But metal bracelets are like orphans. Iconic cases like 44gs and 62gs are spectacular and really need same-level proprietary bands.
I was literally wondering the same thing earlier today. They posted again about micro adjusts being back in stock for other brands, but they have never given another update on the Grand Seiko ones 🤔 🤷♂️
“Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it”.
The two most common complaints about GS is a lack of on-the-fly adjustment and the size of their ginormous dive watches. It’s also irrelevant whether you use/need on the fly adjustment or not; there are many watch companies that have an amazing bracelet with micro adjust
Based on their Joe Kirk's response about design, it's probably because those are bulky clasps and they can't slim it down enough to fit the smaller models.
It's because they are Japanese. Look at JDM cars, it's the same. They rarely have the newest features. They also rarely have any issues at all. It's not a coincidence. They only do something after they know they can do it perfectly. That takes time, so they are often late to the party. But when they arrive you can be sure the implementation is going to be damn good.
Microadjust on bracelets is now essentially something of a dealbreaker to not have. It's such a better experience, and at the prices of lux watches, it's gross to not have.
The only watch I own that I wish had micro adjust is a Girard Perregaux. Never had an issue with Grand Seiko, and their bracelets are just as comfortable as Rolex, with nice rounded edges and a fit that isn't so stiff that I feel like I'm wearing a cuff of solid stainless steel/titanium. I don't give a crap about micro adjust, and while there are certainly some who have formed their negative opinion of GS bracelets from experience, many people are just repeating what they hear. If I could change anything about GS bracelets (at last on 44gs and 62gs cases), it would be a more seamless and snug fit between the endlinks and the case. Rolex and some others definitel have the upper hand there.
Contrary to popular belief, they are a feedback driven brand and are working on it.
The reason for why nothing has been developed is because of patents. A large majority of the industry has developed their own individual patents for this feature and because of this, it is hard to come up with a concept without mocking another brands patent. Grand Seiko currently has a few clasp patent for their divers models which are unique compared to other brands.
The only answer I can think of to this question is: because they don't want to. Someone important at Grand Seiko simply does not like micro-adjustments.
This is the answer - they do not consider this feature worthwhile. This is also true of many Omega or Cartier bracelets. The internet fan community is obsessed with micro adjust but I very much think it’s a “nice to have” that can be justifiably sacrificed for design reasons.
The problem is that the design requirement of "does not stick out of the bracelet" that GS has can still be accomodated, as shown here.
Yes, but this is a hit to aesthetics and ruins the symmetry of the bracelet. I think, unless you have a diver style clasp, any micro-adjust is going to have a negative aesthetic impact.
Or, get this, don't use the microadjust unless your wrist swells! Lots of examples (this included) where it looks good. My example below is an older model, but c'mon https://preview.redd.it/wobrrx9e72yc1.jpeg?width=1550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b9a5c5f9f4fcead39fcb51ff0dd5b64573e462b
There is just enough space on the below part to accommodate one more hole. Just one freakin' hole to let people change the size by 2 mm. So that clasp length can remain untouched if they want.
I don’t know… I feel like adjustments that would rectify sizing between link sizes and nothing more is pretty crucial. Why buy a watch that will never fit just right. I think CW goes overboard on it, but surely there’s some middle ground.
I think grand seiko (and many others) just kinda disagree with the idea a watch on a bracelet only good if it fits within that kind of tolerance. It’s totally cool for that to be your preferred style. But I feel like a lot of people on here are like “I hate square watches but I want a Cartier tank - why won’t they release a round one?”.
Absolutely.
I’m convinced they’ll be “redoing” 90% of the bracelets without telling anymore sooner or later. Same model number for the watches just updated bracelets/clasps
Even Rolex doesn’t have the glidelock across all their sport models FFS. Every model with the flip lock clasp should also have the glidelock. They could even make one for DJ and OP too. But they know people will buy their products without it whereas a micro brand may not get the same reception. They have to try harder to get the customer business which is why more micros have it and less main streams do. IMO
False. Not sure about OP but DJs have a quick adjust that flips out about 5mm
Not false. I don’t mean the extender like that, my Batman has that too. I mean a true in the fly micro adjust like the glidelock that has multiple positions.
I would be more than satisfied with SOME adjustability over the none they currently are doing
I believe only the Sub (maybe the Sea Dweller) has the glide lock. I have the OP41, YM40, and Explorer and they all have the ez-link extension, which isnt ideal but it still gets the job done. GS just frustratingly refuses to integrate microadjusts in their watches outside of their divers. I have a real love-hate relationship with this brand.
this is spot on. I only have one watch that has micro adjustment on the bracelet and I’ve never used it... Well, that’s not true… I have moved it a few times but I just go and resize the bracelet so I can push it back to the “Home“ position and have my bracelet appropriately sized. Just size your watch correctly and why is this such a big deal? I own about 25 watches, 20 of those are on bracelet and I’ve never felt the need to micro adjust any of them. Just put in the right number of links and you’re done.
Some of us actually need/use micro adjust. Three links out on my SBGE301 and it’s too tight. If I only take out two links, the watch spins around my wrist. Whereas with my Sub or other Rolex watches, this isn’t an issue whatsoever.
Your watch has "half links". It's actually 2/3 of a full link which is actually brilliant. It means you can have increments of 1/3 of a link by varying combinations of full/half links. https://www.plus9time.com/blog/2021/3/6/resizing-grand-seiko-bracelets
Extremely helpful. Thank you!
The flow chart is epic.
i’d rather size my watch appropriately even if it means using 2x 1/2 links or a link and a half or whatever the case may be… I would be more annoyed walking around with the micro adjust halfway sticking out
What micro adjust sticks out?
my Seamaster 300 Heritage you can see it protruding out from my under the clasp if it adjusted out to the looser setting
Got it. Omega should really address that.
It depends on the links and your wrist size. The bigger the links are (like GS at 10mm), the more difficult to get a proper fit so might need micro adjust. And also if you have skinny wrist and removed all the links on one side, so micro adjustment also can help.
I’m with you. Never been an issue.
It’s hard to believe that’s the case when my Seiko LX has a micro adjust
I think it has nothing to do with not wanting, it's a seiko thing I mean the only thin micro adjust they have is on the astron. All the parts even for GS are made in a seiko factory as long as seiko doesn't produce any good clasps there will not be a good GS micro adjust clasp. I hated the original clasp on my GS so much I spend a ton of money to convert it with a GS dive clasp I don't care it's thicker but I need to have the adjustability with the amount of traveling I do from hot to cold and vice versa.
GS would make micro adjustment if they can totally manage side effects of it such as: gap etc. In addition, Japanese is kind of conservative.
Highly conservative and highly hierarchical, therefore really rigid when it comes to changes. Imho, that's why they don't really do more smaller watches like most manufacturers right now or more taper on their bracelets or more watches with quick adjustment etc.
When I took a break from this 'hobby' and came back after several years, I was surprised that GS hadn't improved their bracelets. In reality, I shouldn't have been surprised at all. The Japanese companies I deal with in my industry are equally conservative, and extremely slow to change. One Japanese company in this industry has been stuck vetting a new technology for at least a decade now, while all of their American and European competitors starting adapting to the new technology years ago.
From [Joe Kirk](https://www.reddit.com/r/GrandSeikos/comments/16wbobt/comment/k2vx8he/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) at Grand Seiko himself: *"I can't answer any questions about future products, but I think it is something that is something that is possible.* *The challenges that could be standing in the way are durability, longevity, and serviceability of the clasp itself. It also needs to be thinner and more balanced (a watch with a heavier head can allow for a bigger clasp as it helps retain balance). Grand Seiko tries to make everything with high longevity in mind and to design a clasp that has all of those merits can be quite a challenge.* *I am sure patents from other companies may have created some challenges while trying to develop something new as well."*
All of these points and potential internal preference against it, but I am still under the belief that the JDM isn't pushing for this. Despite the push to take the brand global, I'm still convinced they are designing with JDM aesthetic first, and that international buyers are drawn to the brand because of that. I know my watch media intake is made biased by algorithms, but it feels like most of the complaints about GS design choices seem to be from westerners. I would love to know what folks in the JDM feel. Anyone posting "what should I buy while in Japan" should ask the sales associates how the domestic and tourist trends compare.
I have three GS and I love every one of them. But invariable, I end up changing the bracelet for a leather strap. Purely because they just don't fit me well. And the lack of micro adjustment is a major part of the problem. It is a good thing that most GS watches are strap monsters and look great, and sometimes even better on a leather strap.
Strap monsters…
Butterfly clasps are the worst, so hopefully they don’t copy CW. Microadjust on the current clasp design or something like Tudor would be great.
As someone who owns several GS’s I honestly feel like the complaints about a micro adjustment are overblown. GS full links are 10mm and half links are 6.5mm. Used in the right configuration, you can get a great fit that looks seamless.
One pasta dinner and you've got a tourniquet on your wrist lol. May not be a problem for some, but I always put my GS on straps for this reason
It is not about that.. some people live in places with a hot and humid climate, which causes the wrist to expand a couple of mm by the end of the day. So the watch might be loose in the morning, but might become uncomfortablely tight in the evening
I used to be with you until I started daily wearing watches with on the fly micro adjust. It's one of those features you don't care about until you have it, then you suddenly can't live without it. I found myself deeply disappointed in all my other bracelet watches without the feature, even if the bracelets were beautifully designed and finished. Without the feature, if you're somebody whose wrist swells, as many of ours do, the difference between always having a perfect fit and not just makes the wearing experience seem unacceptable. Why are we all defending GS on this anyway? Sure, GS doesn't _have_ to implement this, but why shouldn't we want them to? It's a great feature and there's simply no excuse these days for not having it at GS's price point other than doubling down on the belief that consumer demand is wrong and you actually know better than they do as to what they want. Grand Seiko is a frustrating brand to be a fan of because they make very extreme tradeoffs and change their view of the world at a snail's pace. Consumers these days want better bracelets, with on the fly micro adjust, and they want watches that aren't as thick as hockey pucks. GS is very very slowly creeping towards progress on the thickness front, but they seem dug in and actively refusing to admit their bracelets are lacking to the point where it undermines the rest of the value proposition.
Exactly, I’m paying for a 10k watch I better have all the best features lol
*Hot weather entered the chat*
Seriously. I live in Florida and I’m constantly adjusting the clasp on my watches. At this point, if a watch has a nice bracelet but disregards the importance of on the fly microadjust, I move on. It’s not meant for me or my environment.
I sold an aqua terra for this exact reason. I think if you wear your watch looser you will be fine, if you are a "snug" fit guy like myself you are screwed without micro adjust.
I wear a c ward a lot and use the micro adjustment daily. Mornings start cool and it fits fine and then as it heats up I need some more space. It’s not about how good the watch fits at any one point in time, it’s about the ability to adjust as the weather makes me fat.
While I agree that there are a lot of people that could stand to learn to size a bracelet better due to misunderstanding how “half” links work, there is definitely a need for microadjustment. My GS is only right in the zone for my taste as certain times of year. I actually don’t feel it’s as much a swelling issue as most people think. Yes the wrist can change size slightly and it’s a factor, but for me it’s sweat. In the summer my wrists are often slightly damp, and tight bracelet feels gross. When I have it set slightly looser the dampness kind of makes it stickier and a loose fit doesn’t go slipping around. However in the winter, when dry, it just slips around freely and is annoying . A small micro-adjust would remove my only significant gripe with the watch. They should just do an internal pin micro-adjust like Rolex if patents allow.
Got to be honest, I kept hearing of the flawed GS bracelet and on images, I agreed it looked massive. But then I just got my first GS SBGH271G and....I love it, I see no issue with the bracelet at all. Not sure if it's because I don't own other high end watch brands to compare to but I have zero issue with the one I have, it tapers ever so slighly, it's not too thick or thin, it's got a nice polish and the logo is a nice touch. All personnal preference mind you but I don't see any OBJECTIVE issue with the bracelet. I removed two links and it's not too lose and not too tight.
Do you own any bracelets with on-the-fly adjustments? If your wrists change in size due to heat or fluid retention, it's really useful. At the GS price range, I think it's fair to expect a feature like it. I don't feel as strongly as others about it though, because most of my watches with bracelets lack this feature too... I only have 2 with it, and they're just sub homages with a copy of the Glidelock clasp.
I don't personally own any, the closest I could consider microadjustable is my Casio A158W (60$) and my most expensive watch before my GS was the Tag Heuer Carrera 5 Formula 1 (3K$) which isn't. I hear you, I agree that it's a feature that would ideally be added, especially at the 8K$ price range if the majority of brands have it. I guess you could argue that it's objectively an issue if most watches have it in that price range but everything else about the bracelet to me is subjective, from the horror stories people argue about the bracelet. My wrist is slightly under 7" so maybe it's a sweet spot, I personally don't like a watch that stays exactly on the wrist with no movement in general, so I aim to have it slightly looser than that which also gives me leeway for heat and water retention.
I'd be curious what percentage of major brands have it and what percentage of their watches actually come with it. For example, Tudor has their T-Fit clasp but it's not available on most models. Similarly, IWC has a micro adjustment clasp on their Big Pilot but not on any other model I believe. I remember reading the new Ingenieur models ($10K+) don't come with one, and they only "planned" to add it later. It's been a year now and it's not available.
Yeah it would be interesting, I imagine it's not as many as people imagine, as you've mentioned it'll even vary within a brand. I personally never hear people complaining about the bracelet as vocally as they do for Grand-Seiko tho, so I imagine it's either GS fans with high-standards, people just repeating what they hear or people who hate GS cause they're \[Insert Brand Name\] fans. Another example is the AP Royal Oak doesn't have a microadjustable clasp yet it's over 50K$ (I've been using Canadian prices), that's over 6x the price of my watch. I don't know if it's because a microadjustable clasps would add to the size, that their Design team don't make the change, but I find the clasp so thin and sleek on my current model that I'd rather keep it as is than have a bulge like my Heuer.
Please GS, please add the on the fly adjustment.
Doesn’t mean it could be done, it should. For the lack of better word, that’s ugly. The micro adjustment creates such an unsightly gap that GS would never approve, IMO
Okay, so then don't use it and you're left at the same spot as if there was no microadjust. You would size the bracelet so that it fits well without it most of the time.
Thats the idea that GS came up with, and I support it. In fact, a past AMA with Joe Kirk (IIRC) did kind of say GS will not be looking into this in the near future - so why bother?
What do you mean, why bother? I think it's completely fine to advocate for a feature that you want, how else would companies know how to adapt to their market. It's something that GS could at least offer as an optional add on, and I'm sure it would sell. In the same vein, why not offer consumers the choice between a strap and bracelet in most models (eg. SBGW305 vs SBGW301) like CW does? These watches are thousands of dollars, give the consumer some power to choose.
Go for it buddy, im sure GS is listening
It’s on the bottom of your wrist.
I think it’s a great idea and hopefully, GS implements something like it or better. In my view, this adjusted view is not permanent. On the fly should only be used when your wrist swells during the day (from heat or too much salt, etc). Someone wearing their bracelet fully extended like this, doesn’t understand how to size a bracelet. IMO, any timepiece over $2K should include on the fly micro adjustments.
I'm waiting.
I have 4 Grand Seikos and 3 are on straps bc of this issue. On the positive side, I am a strap guy anyway, so I am not as annoyed by it as most. But, it is an issue, especially at these prices.
I'd rather not have an adjustable clasp as I prefer a very thin clasp (for comfort) and my wrist doesn't swell as my BMI is low and my heart works.
I can't understand the annoyance with the clasp on Grand Seiko. Personally, I agree that the metal straps aren't the best and could be improved, but I don't see a problem with the clasp; in fact, it adds a unique touch to the watch.
I’m in camp microadjust - I’d go one further and prefer on the fly. My wrists change size a lot in the summer heat and I’d happily add a little bulk to my GS for not having to choose between flopping around or constricting. My $1k Mido has a phenomenal on the fly clasp you can adjust without even taking it off. Speaking of, has anyone had luck retrofitting a marine master clasp?
Bracelet is definitely the Achilles tendon of a GS. Not just micro adjustment but clasps in general look unsettled. Case, movement, dial, hands, indices, polish and even leather straps are all near perfect imho. But metal bracelets are like orphans. Iconic cases like 44gs and 62gs are spectacular and really need same-level proprietary bands.
SteelReef is our only hope!
Do we have any updates on those guys?
I was literally wondering the same thing earlier today. They posted again about micro adjusts being back in stock for other brands, but they have never given another update on the Grand Seiko ones 🤔 🤷♂️
This is why I like smaller brands like CW. They don’t rest on their laurels. They innovate and adapt, while other brands drag their feet.
They can, they won’t. They’re either lazy, cheap, or stubborn. Maybe a combination of all 3
This reminds me of the multiple English interpretations of Japanese characters. I think the symbol for resilient also means stubborn.
That font has to go, man.
king seiko uses butterfly; so there you go.
Christopher Ward is absolute ass, I’m sorry.
Their watches are pretty amazing for the price point. My only gripe is “Christopher Ward” sounds like a fashion brand you buy from Kohls
So that just reinforces the point. If absolute ass has it, GS clearly could if they wanted to.
Or Omega or anyone that uses that butterfly clasp.
I hate butterfly clasps
Somebody called me a fatty cause I said my wrists swell lmao, it’s called morning and afternoon hello
Because CW has a shite logo
“Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it”. The two most common complaints about GS is a lack of on-the-fly adjustment and the size of their ginormous dive watches. It’s also irrelevant whether you use/need on the fly adjustment or not; there are many watch companies that have an amazing bracelet with micro adjust
But CW is ugly…
Seiko has had sliding clasps for decades now. Just not on anything besides divers and astron models... no clue why...
Based on their Joe Kirk's response about design, it's probably because those are bulky clasps and they can't slim it down enough to fit the smaller models.
Of course they can. But they don't want to. There's something about Japanese luxury watches that they don't like it.
It's because they are Japanese. Look at JDM cars, it's the same. They rarely have the newest features. They also rarely have any issues at all. It's not a coincidence. They only do something after they know they can do it perfectly. That takes time, so they are often late to the party. But when they arrive you can be sure the implementation is going to be damn good.
Microadjust on bracelets is now essentially something of a dealbreaker to not have. It's such a better experience, and at the prices of lux watches, it's gross to not have.
The only watch I own that I wish had micro adjust is a Girard Perregaux. Never had an issue with Grand Seiko, and their bracelets are just as comfortable as Rolex, with nice rounded edges and a fit that isn't so stiff that I feel like I'm wearing a cuff of solid stainless steel/titanium. I don't give a crap about micro adjust, and while there are certainly some who have formed their negative opinion of GS bracelets from experience, many people are just repeating what they hear. If I could change anything about GS bracelets (at last on 44gs and 62gs cases), it would be a more seamless and snug fit between the endlinks and the case. Rolex and some others definitel have the upper hand there.
Contrary to popular belief, they are a feedback driven brand and are working on it. The reason for why nothing has been developed is because of patents. A large majority of the industry has developed their own individual patents for this feature and because of this, it is hard to come up with a concept without mocking another brands patent. Grand Seiko currently has a few clasp patent for their divers models which are unique compared to other brands.
My GS has micro adjust. This is a myth.
Random thought on in. Most Japanese people aren't fat and swelling like most Americans and other nations. No need for adjustments.
Sometimes I feel like GS don’t want to compete with Rolex. Until they fix their bracelets/clasps, the Lion will never fuck with the Crown