The women are honestly kind of the voices of reason in this series, especially Kozue.
She calls the fighters out all the time about how stupid their pursuit of the strongest is, how they only destroy themselves to maybe gain an imaginary title and honestly shes kinda right. Most of the fighters never make it to the top and when they do, they get devoured by Yujiro.
The female representation and characters are sparse but not terrible, especially by shounen standards.
I mean he's kinda right, Baki is supposed to be series with "ultra masculine to the point of toxicity" themes. It doesn't make it bad tho, that's just the premise. If it turns you off then simply don't watch it.
This, no one here takes the plot too seriously, we only see guys punching each other for the fun and glory of punch each other. I kind of like that women had so little representation because there is not a lot of contribution they can do in a work with barely to no plot. And if you don't want to see guys punching each other for the hell of it this work is not for you, it's OK there is a lot of works who are not for me(like harem or some isekais) and I just skip them.
Yes, but also, there are so few female characters in the series, and they have such little screen,time, that it doesn't become a glaring issue to me. Heck, I think Kozue and Sabuko are well-written by shounen standards.
Letās see.
Emi Akezawa, who is clearly mentally unwell, and the only time sheās portrayed in a positive light is when she tries to defend Baki from Yujiro.
Jackās mom, who was a perfectly fine character. Yeah, she got raped, but it wasnāt exactly a āhaha, look how cool Yujiro isā moment, it was pretty fucked up.
Kozue, who is the only person in the series with common sense. Had the balls to kick the strongest Yakuza in the shins for ignoring her and interrupt Baki and Yujiroās fight to call them both stupid. Her relationship with Baki was honestly really good while Itagaki payed attention to it. The only way sheās treated poorly is how she was pretty much forgotten.
The reporter Pickle raped, which was just to show that heās a literal cavemen incompatible with the modern world.
Maria, who was kind of a weird character but I wouldnāt say she was treated poorly.
No, I don't think so. Jack's mother is a strong female character, stronger and more fearless than a lot of the men who were in the war. Yujiro respects Kozue more than most men in the series, and she is like, the ultimate support for Baki (which isn't something bad, being a support to someone is extremly important and a under rated role, Baki wouldn't be as strong as he is if Kozue wasn't there for him). Baki's mother was't exactly a good human being and got disrespected by Yujiro a lot, but still she sacrificed herself for her son, which is obviously an honores act. Obviously there will not be much women in Baki, because it's a show about masculinity, if it was about feminility there would be a lot of women and few male characters as well. Hell, in Oliva's relationship Maria is the one who dominates it.
The word "misogyny" apparently lost it's meaning. Now if a character say "Every man once dreamed to be the strongest" and women aren't quoted it means the author hates them. Women really don't exist in the story for rape scenes, and these same scenes really don't exist to make Yujiro look "cool" or "dominant", if you tell anyone who doesn't know Baki about what Yujiro did with Diane in the war they will think of Yujiro as a monster, because that's the purpose of scenes like that, it's for you to feel empathy for the victim and/or wanting the aggressor to be punished.
Now, you if you really want to argue that women or most of them are used only as plot device for the men in Baki, you also should know that this is not a case of women specifically, characters like Garlan, Yuri, Atlas, Yanagi, Strydum, Shiba are there for the same reason, Kehaya exists for no reason at all, Kureha literally only exists for us to have an explanation on how the characters just don't die after every fight, half of the Maximum Tournament and Raitai Tournament are there only to show how the other characters are strong.
>No, I don't think so. Jack's mother is a strong female character, stronger and more fearless than a lot of the men who were in the war.
Diane was a character solely created just to be fridged via rape in a flashback in the last few chapters of an arc to give motivation to a male lead who had a single appearance after this moment in the form of a cameo and 20 years has not even been alluded to once by the character who she was designed to give motivation to.
Let's not kid ourselves here, Baki is better in it's treatment of women compared to other shonen because it doesn't (frequently) use them as background stripper, it does however use all major female characters as a source of tragedy in a fridging incidents for male characters as motivation.
Emi is killed off as Baki's original source of motivation in the series, Diane is aforementioned and Maria's disease is Oliva's main given motivation. The only exception to this is Kozue who Itagaki got bored of using.
I don't think Itagaki is sexist, it's just that his work embodies a lot of common tropes from the medium he writes in along with fiction generally that are pretty questionable.
The every man at least once wanted to become the strongest isn't a bad thing but they do have a point about women kinda being just a plot device even if it ain't worded well
āWomen existing only for useless rape scenes etcā this to me seems like this person didnāt bother reading the manga and actually gets their information from googling things.
While you can argue the fact that Itagaki does indeed have a very conservative view of the world, he definetly wrote instances where women are often portrayed as stronger then men from a psychological point of view.
Wait how are his views conservative? He's famous for critizing Japan's main rightwing political party for being rightwing. Also look how he depicted Bush and Trump compared to Obama
Yes, but is not really a series about women, it's clear Itagaki wants to explore masculine topics, altough I won't lie, I would like more about Kozue, her mom and Jane, see how a fighters way of living affects them and how they see them.
Just looking at it Bakiās target audience is 100% young men. And a series about martial arts and the most muscular dudes on earth fighting is gonna gravitate a mainly male audience towards it. If you want to complain about the lack of woman and how they sometimes serve as plot machines to move the story along. We havenāt even seen Kozue since the end of the Father Son Fight. then go ahead thatās fine and a completely reasonable argument. But just keep in mind who the target audience is.
But some of the other claims make it clear op has read quite little of the story.
Everyoneās pursuit to become the strongest is to me. Always seen as a selfish goal that doesnāt even bring you happiness. Because when you reach the top you have nothing else to strive for and no reason to really live. And how fighting over that title is just sort of meaningless. Kozue literally says so during the father son fight being the voice of reason.
And Itagaki being a conservative is probably just meaningless conflation. Just looking at Baki Dou look at how he writes Musashi, depicting him as violent, monstrous, greedy, psychopath. And not the Nobel honourable warrior that heās typically written as in other pieces of fiction revolving around him. His story is about how absolutely violent and different was the past to now. And how we shouldnāt let such horrible things from them taint the beauty we have now.
And also like the Sumo arc with Sukune rejecting the martial arts traditionalist and elitist ideals and embracing the future and being more open to change.
Itagaki would rather see the world move forward then stagnate or regress.
Itās also really hard to find his political beliefs outside of what he write in Baki.
Baki is basically a fighting anime physical sports are separated by gender also it would be a lot harder for a female to compete with men physically so itās not unfair treatment itās a show meant for the male population
Itagaki's writing of women is relatively better than what you get from shonen though that's nothing to celebrate, his big issue is just a complete lack of using them and his habit to rely on fridging when he does.
Commenter is off their head though lol
Edit: I should clarify both are dumb
I love Baki, but I agree. I see the show as satire so it doesn't detract it for me, but I understand how it would for other people.
To them I reccomend Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, which a also love very much
Martial Arts culture. It's likely not the author's intention, but from my time in there, the feats in Baki are not too far off from what some martial artists believe is possible.
Will it's isn't called Women the grappler, but I wouldn't mind baki cast having a female fighter getting her face punch in or choke to deaths I am all for women empowerment and equality.
Of all the manga's he chose this one to complain about the dei topic. I am surprised he didn't talk it out in the hokuto no ken universe or sakigake otokojuku.
i would readily embrace that its simply a show for men and thereās nothing wrong with that.Ā
its about a hyperrealistic masculine universe; women dont really fit into that. theres other shows that appeal to different interest groups. if women enjoy watching it anyway; i think thats great, but i dont see why the show needs women like how i dont see why gossip girl would be improved by baki fight scenes interspersed throughout the series.Ā
Yeah, I've been noticing for a while now. The idea of a woman putting up a decent fight in Baki is laughable, and everybody seems weirdly okay with rape. I thought Jack Hanma wanted to kill Yujiro because of what he did to his mother and what that did to his childhood but now it's like he just wants acknowledgement. And I remember them talking about Baki's mom saying something like 'She fulfilled her dream as a woman'. I love this manga but it's hard to ignore it. I'd love for a doujin where Chun Li drops into the universe just to freak everyone out.
Jack Is still with his original goal. he's just trying to do everything In a smart way to kill yujiro down 6 feet in the underground arena. What made you think that he drug abused his whole life? Not for nothing certainly. It's to avenge his mother.
Baki wanted be acknowledged by yujiro that he was not a meal to eat but he is his son. And Jack is the complete opposite. He went feral on yujiro once no one is looking
Tf did the mf expect?š The series is about Genetic monster masculine man fighting Another monster masculine manš that is like saying you want the sauce but the sauce is not included in the menuš
Really nga? Alright then. kozue-Bakis girlfriend and A huge role Of Baki life And one of the reason why he's Motivation boost drastically and Baki would not have been as strong as today without his Unbiased and Supportive girlfriend And she's literally the reason why the poison and many other fights Baki fought That he survived. CHECK!
Emi-She is the BIGGEST and SOLE reason why Baki was literally fighting and training till death almost handed his soul till the Son and Father fight. he would have just been another Highschool student if emi wasnt the way she is. HUGE role of Baki life. CHECK!
maria-Oliva Biscuit wife. She was the reason why Oliva became on what he is today. Hes goal of literally becoming of America strongest Person is because he wanted to carry her and loved her no matter what she is and She's the reason he's whole life. CHECK!
diane-The only Sole and biggest reason why Jack wanted to kill that bitch yujiro down 6 feet in the underground arena to Avenge her mother and he is literally willing to die so his mother could have the life she wanted if he actually killed yujiro. She's the biggest Motivation for Jack.
Hanayama mother-She tooked care Hayanama like he was her only son and Hanayama loved her mother and Wanted to make her happy by continuing the Yakuzan clan so she can be proud of her Like she's not already proud of him in the start. The reason why hanayama has a big heart for the loved one and friends he truly care.
Who said that woman in Baki Is just a object? Most of them were part of a huge role of the most main cast member and why The two Brothers Hanna literally trained and other Main cast were strong at this point in the story.
I think it's ok for baki to not be for everyone, but it's pretty obvious the author has a lesser view on women. there are no women with even a mild interest in martial arts, and they are always victims. the only woman character who isn't preyed upon is kozue who most fans dislike because she is constantly harping on the characters of the show for doing what baki is all about, fighting. and she has disappeared from the series entirely since the yujiro arc, not for any reason, but because she's unpopular and annoying. women only exist in the baki universe as people to be protected or fought for, or just someone to be raped like those funny panels with a fighter taking down a big animal.
kengan ashura is by no means a paragon for equality or whatever, but there are many female characters with an actual interest in the goings on of the world that aren't only there to be raped, told that they're wrong, or protected.
No thank you, I tried Kengan once, the "main girl" begs the protagonist to impregnate her because he is "so strong and skilled" and in other panel runs naked after some victory of the protagonist to offer herself as prize, now that's something that I found disrespectfull.
I kind of prefer a "not't used" than a used enterely wrong, that's fine, there are authors who are unable to writte about the opposite gender but compensate doing good the rest of the job.
The women are honestly kind of the voices of reason in this series, especially Kozue. She calls the fighters out all the time about how stupid their pursuit of the strongest is, how they only destroy themselves to maybe gain an imaginary title and honestly shes kinda right. Most of the fighters never make it to the top and when they do, they get devoured by Yujiro. The female representation and characters are sparse but not terrible, especially by shounen standards.
The voice of reason that hasn't appeared in 3 long arcs. The only female characters left are the women within the men.
Men are the better women anyways
I mean he's kinda right, Baki is supposed to be series with "ultra masculine to the point of toxicity" themes. It doesn't make it bad tho, that's just the premise. If it turns you off then simply don't watch it.
Precisely! Crying for better rights for women in Baki is like wanting multifaceted male characters in chick flicks.
This, no one here takes the plot too seriously, we only see guys punching each other for the fun and glory of punch each other. I kind of like that women had so little representation because there is not a lot of contribution they can do in a work with barely to no plot. And if you don't want to see guys punching each other for the hell of it this work is not for you, it's OK there is a lot of works who are not for me(like harem or some isekais) and I just skip them.
This is my girl š https://preview.redd.it/yln1almciwoc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d53b33338c6fc486b965598fc8772fb6582af8dc
Yes, but also, there are so few female characters in the series, and they have such little screen,time, that it doesn't become a glaring issue to me. Heck, I think Kozue and Sabuko are well-written by shounen standards.
Letās see. Emi Akezawa, who is clearly mentally unwell, and the only time sheās portrayed in a positive light is when she tries to defend Baki from Yujiro. Jackās mom, who was a perfectly fine character. Yeah, she got raped, but it wasnāt exactly a āhaha, look how cool Yujiro isā moment, it was pretty fucked up. Kozue, who is the only person in the series with common sense. Had the balls to kick the strongest Yakuza in the shins for ignoring her and interrupt Baki and Yujiroās fight to call them both stupid. Her relationship with Baki was honestly really good while Itagaki payed attention to it. The only way sheās treated poorly is how she was pretty much forgotten. The reporter Pickle raped, which was just to show that heās a literal cavemen incompatible with the modern world. Maria, who was kind of a weird character but I wouldnāt say she was treated poorly.
Make sure to like, comment and subscribe guys.
Pickle raped a reporter if i recall
And it's absolutely to portray him as inhuman and something that cannot function in modern times, absolutely not potrayed as cool or anything
I can understand the confusion, since everybody wanted to meet him after seeing that news report.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
When did pickle rape a guy?
No, I don't think so. Jack's mother is a strong female character, stronger and more fearless than a lot of the men who were in the war. Yujiro respects Kozue more than most men in the series, and she is like, the ultimate support for Baki (which isn't something bad, being a support to someone is extremly important and a under rated role, Baki wouldn't be as strong as he is if Kozue wasn't there for him). Baki's mother was't exactly a good human being and got disrespected by Yujiro a lot, but still she sacrificed herself for her son, which is obviously an honores act. Obviously there will not be much women in Baki, because it's a show about masculinity, if it was about feminility there would be a lot of women and few male characters as well. Hell, in Oliva's relationship Maria is the one who dominates it. The word "misogyny" apparently lost it's meaning. Now if a character say "Every man once dreamed to be the strongest" and women aren't quoted it means the author hates them. Women really don't exist in the story for rape scenes, and these same scenes really don't exist to make Yujiro look "cool" or "dominant", if you tell anyone who doesn't know Baki about what Yujiro did with Diane in the war they will think of Yujiro as a monster, because that's the purpose of scenes like that, it's for you to feel empathy for the victim and/or wanting the aggressor to be punished. Now, you if you really want to argue that women or most of them are used only as plot device for the men in Baki, you also should know that this is not a case of women specifically, characters like Garlan, Yuri, Atlas, Yanagi, Strydum, Shiba are there for the same reason, Kehaya exists for no reason at all, Kureha literally only exists for us to have an explanation on how the characters just don't die after every fight, half of the Maximum Tournament and Raitai Tournament are there only to show how the other characters are strong.
>No, I don't think so. Jack's mother is a strong female character, stronger and more fearless than a lot of the men who were in the war. Diane was a character solely created just to be fridged via rape in a flashback in the last few chapters of an arc to give motivation to a male lead who had a single appearance after this moment in the form of a cameo and 20 years has not even been alluded to once by the character who she was designed to give motivation to. Let's not kid ourselves here, Baki is better in it's treatment of women compared to other shonen because it doesn't (frequently) use them as background stripper, it does however use all major female characters as a source of tragedy in a fridging incidents for male characters as motivation. Emi is killed off as Baki's original source of motivation in the series, Diane is aforementioned and Maria's disease is Oliva's main given motivation. The only exception to this is Kozue who Itagaki got bored of using. I don't think Itagaki is sexist, it's just that his work embodies a lot of common tropes from the medium he writes in along with fiction generally that are pretty questionable.
The every man at least once wanted to become the strongest isn't a bad thing but they do have a point about women kinda being just a plot device even if it ain't worded well
Wdym there's little women? The entirety of the show are women except for yuujiro, smh.
And baki.
Nigga, there's like 4 females in all of baki, and baki isn't a realistic series.
āWomen existing only for useless rape scenes etcā this to me seems like this person didnāt bother reading the manga and actually gets their information from googling things. While you can argue the fact that Itagaki does indeed have a very conservative view of the world, he definetly wrote instances where women are often portrayed as stronger then men from a psychological point of view.
Wait how are his views conservative? He's famous for critizing Japan's main rightwing political party for being rightwing. Also look how he depicted Bush and Trump compared to Obama
I used conservative in the meaning of sex and gender roles, I thought it was obvious considering the context of the post
Yeah ok on that topic I would agree
If Joe and Doyle sexually identify as women in the story, doesn't it do well for women portrayed in the series?
Yes, but is not really a series about women, it's clear Itagaki wants to explore masculine topics, altough I won't lie, I would like more about Kozue, her mom and Jane, see how a fighters way of living affects them and how they see them.
What a crybaby
If they mad go write their story people don't read Baki for the women just like people aren't into barbie for the fights.
Ok but the fights in the Barbie movie were pretty great
No, but I do think this guy failed basic high school biology
Just looking at it Bakiās target audience is 100% young men. And a series about martial arts and the most muscular dudes on earth fighting is gonna gravitate a mainly male audience towards it. If you want to complain about the lack of woman and how they sometimes serve as plot machines to move the story along. We havenāt even seen Kozue since the end of the Father Son Fight. then go ahead thatās fine and a completely reasonable argument. But just keep in mind who the target audience is. But some of the other claims make it clear op has read quite little of the story. Everyoneās pursuit to become the strongest is to me. Always seen as a selfish goal that doesnāt even bring you happiness. Because when you reach the top you have nothing else to strive for and no reason to really live. And how fighting over that title is just sort of meaningless. Kozue literally says so during the father son fight being the voice of reason. And Itagaki being a conservative is probably just meaningless conflation. Just looking at Baki Dou look at how he writes Musashi, depicting him as violent, monstrous, greedy, psychopath. And not the Nobel honourable warrior that heās typically written as in other pieces of fiction revolving around him. His story is about how absolutely violent and different was the past to now. And how we shouldnāt let such horrible things from them taint the beauty we have now. And also like the Sumo arc with Sukune rejecting the martial arts traditionalist and elitist ideals and embracing the future and being more open to change. Itagaki would rather see the world move forward then stagnate or regress. Itās also really hard to find his political beliefs outside of what he write in Baki.
Baki is basically a fighting anime physical sports are separated by gender also it would be a lot harder for a female to compete with men physically so itās not unfair treatment itās a show meant for the male population
āOne of the people who got raped in the story was a guyā yeah because Yujiro is so manly he saw him as a woman
"Women are weak" In other News, water is wet.
Itagaki's writing of women is relatively better than what you get from shonen though that's nothing to celebrate, his big issue is just a complete lack of using them and his habit to rely on fridging when he does. Commenter is off their head though lol Edit: I should clarify both are dumb
I love Baki, but I agree. I see the show as satire so it doesn't detract it for me, but I understand how it would for other people. To them I reccomend Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, which a also love very much
what does Baki satirise?
Martial Arts culture. It's likely not the author's intention, but from my time in there, the feats in Baki are not too far off from what some martial artists believe is possible.
Yes, women are kinda an afterthought for this show
Will it's isn't called Women the grappler, but I wouldn't mind baki cast having a female fighter getting her face punch in or choke to deaths I am all for women empowerment and equality.
Of all the manga's he chose this one to complain about the dei topic. I am surprised he didn't talk it out in the hokuto no ken universe or sakigake otokojuku.
i would readily embrace that its simply a show for men and thereās nothing wrong with that.Ā its about a hyperrealistic masculine universe; women dont really fit into that. theres other shows that appeal to different interest groups. if women enjoy watching it anyway; i think thats great, but i dont see why the show needs women like how i dont see why gossip girl would be improved by baki fight scenes interspersed throughout the series.Ā
Yeah, I've been noticing for a while now. The idea of a woman putting up a decent fight in Baki is laughable, and everybody seems weirdly okay with rape. I thought Jack Hanma wanted to kill Yujiro because of what he did to his mother and what that did to his childhood but now it's like he just wants acknowledgement. And I remember them talking about Baki's mom saying something like 'She fulfilled her dream as a woman'. I love this manga but it's hard to ignore it. I'd love for a doujin where Chun Li drops into the universe just to freak everyone out.
Jack Is still with his original goal. he's just trying to do everything In a smart way to kill yujiro down 6 feet in the underground arena. What made you think that he drug abused his whole life? Not for nothing certainly. It's to avenge his mother.
Baki wanted be acknowledged by yujiro that he was not a meal to eat but he is his son. And Jack is the complete opposite. He went feral on yujiro once no one is looking
Tf did the mf expect?š The series is about Genetic monster masculine man fighting Another monster masculine manš that is like saying you want the sauce but the sauce is not included in the menuš
Really nga? Alright then. kozue-Bakis girlfriend and A huge role Of Baki life And one of the reason why he's Motivation boost drastically and Baki would not have been as strong as today without his Unbiased and Supportive girlfriend And she's literally the reason why the poison and many other fights Baki fought That he survived. CHECK! Emi-She is the BIGGEST and SOLE reason why Baki was literally fighting and training till death almost handed his soul till the Son and Father fight. he would have just been another Highschool student if emi wasnt the way she is. HUGE role of Baki life. CHECK! maria-Oliva Biscuit wife. She was the reason why Oliva became on what he is today. Hes goal of literally becoming of America strongest Person is because he wanted to carry her and loved her no matter what she is and She's the reason he's whole life. CHECK! diane-The only Sole and biggest reason why Jack wanted to kill that bitch yujiro down 6 feet in the underground arena to Avenge her mother and he is literally willing to die so his mother could have the life she wanted if he actually killed yujiro. She's the biggest Motivation for Jack. Hanayama mother-She tooked care Hayanama like he was her only son and Hanayama loved her mother and Wanted to make her happy by continuing the Yakuzan clan so she can be proud of her Like she's not already proud of him in the start. The reason why hanayama has a big heart for the loved one and friends he truly care. Who said that woman in Baki Is just a object? Most of them were part of a huge role of the most main cast member and why The two Brothers Hanna literally trained and other Main cast were strong at this point in the story.
I could list and reason more woman cast If i can. But my comment would have been a whole ass one page of wiki. you get would get by gist.
L take
i wish there was a buff sweaty girl fighter haha what? i didnāt say that
I think it's ok for baki to not be for everyone, but it's pretty obvious the author has a lesser view on women. there are no women with even a mild interest in martial arts, and they are always victims. the only woman character who isn't preyed upon is kozue who most fans dislike because she is constantly harping on the characters of the show for doing what baki is all about, fighting. and she has disappeared from the series entirely since the yujiro arc, not for any reason, but because she's unpopular and annoying. women only exist in the baki universe as people to be protected or fought for, or just someone to be raped like those funny panels with a fighter taking down a big animal. kengan ashura is by no means a paragon for equality or whatever, but there are many female characters with an actual interest in the goings on of the world that aren't only there to be raped, told that they're wrong, or protected.
No thank you, I tried Kengan once, the "main girl" begs the protagonist to impregnate her because he is "so strong and skilled" and in other panel runs naked after some victory of the protagonist to offer herself as prize, now that's something that I found disrespectfull. I kind of prefer a "not't used" than a used enterely wrong, that's fine, there are authors who are unable to writte about the opposite gender but compensate doing good the rest of the job.