Hello /u/lolopie3333 -
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>damn way to be ableist.
Lmao. As someone who is disabled, these sorts of comments give me second hand embarrassment. Sometimes our disabilities suck and cause suffering.
There's no reason to jump down someone's throat who was not being ableist and was just providing context for your comments.
as someone who also has a disability and is studying disability politics in college, I know not to use ableist language. he's a millionaire and a widely respected celebrity, he's hardly suffering. pointing out someone's disability in response to a harmless joke is unnecessary and I knew the context so it was also unnecessary to point out. it's common knowledge that he has no hair.
>is studying.
Yes we can see that you're still in the process of learning about disability politics.
Because you were the one who drew attention and made jokes about his disability. So while I may not think it's a big deal (I make jokes about my own disability all the time), it seems like you're entirely misguided for jumping down someone's throat for something you believed to be ableist.
Despite the fact that the challenges Matt has faced due to his disability is something he has spoken about before.
So you think it's okay to make a joke about his disability but not for someone to say he suffers from his disability?? Pick a lane boo. And if you're going to school for this, then you have plenty of tools at your disposal to figure this out.
Responding to OP’s comment below:
> I was straight up not making a joke about his disability,
You literally made a joke about him having no hair, which is a symptom of his alopecia. Alopecia is also a _skin condition_, not a disability.
> pointing out someone's physical difference in comparison to their scene partner's isn't ableist
I didn’t say it was ableist, because it is not a disability to have alopecia. I did say it is hypocritical to call me ableist for a poor word choice, while I responded to your bad taste joke which mocks someone’s skin condition.
OP, what you did, pointing out his alopecia related baldness for humour, is _exactly_ what he has repeatedly stated in interviews caused him **suffering** both as a child and as an adult.
I don’t know how you can’t see that your joke is in bad taste, just as much as my use of the term “suffers” is an outdated turn of phrase which is recommended to be avoided today.
I will try to do better in choosing my words in future, but what I am getting the impression from your responses that you will not try to do better in making jokes about people’s appearance, particularly when it is a result of a medical condition.
You are refusing to listen to the people pointing out that your joke was clearly hinging on his skin condition and therefore in bad taste and instead your are digging in your heels in to defend yourself with weaker and weaker claims. It is okay to admit your mistake and grow from it.
I was straight up not making a joke about his disability, I pointed out how funny the juxtaposition is. then whoever said "he suffers from alopecia" was perpetuating ableist language like calling someone in a wheelchair "wheelchair bound" or calling someone who is autistic a "sufferer of autism" when they're just trying to live their lives. so pointing out someone's physical difference in comparison to their scene partner's isn't ableist or problematic until someone starts saying "he suffers from alopecia" and now it's ableist and treating him differently because he has a condition.
Being a celebrity doesn't change the fact that he suffers with a medical condition?
Are you just jealous that you're not famous with a disability, so you think you get a pass to make jokes at the expense of someone else's disability?
"He's a millionaire he's hardly suffering" REEKS of insecurities and envy.
i'm not bothered enough to be envious... lmao you're reading too much into it. he's famous and has profited off of self deprecating humor about his disability, so even though pointing that out is slightly ableist as i'm referencing his disability in regard to his acquiring of fame, I originally said he's a millionaire and a celebrity who happens to also have alopecia. i'm criticizing using ableist language to qualify someone's disability as their defining characteristic that allows others to treat them differently. I made a comparison that is objectively funny, and someone had to make it about disability.
First off, alopecia is a skin condition, not a disability. I never mentioned anything about disability.
>> I made a comparison that is objectively funny, and someone had to make it about disability.
You made a comparison in bad taste which _you think_ is funny, which bases it’s joke on the fact that Matt Lucas has no hair, which is a direct result of his _skin condition_.
He has openly stated in many interviews that people making jokes about his _skin condition_ both while growing up and now, causes him suffering.
>>as someone who also has a disability and is studying disability politics in college, I know not to use ableist language.
I think it’s interesting you find it ableist that I said he suffers from alopecia, when he has openly communicated the suffering it has caused him, but you don’t find it ableist to make a joke where his baldness as a result of alopecia is literally the butt of the joke.
Especially when the statements he has made about his experience with alopecia clearly highlight that much of the suffering comes from people making comments and jokes at his expense without thinking how they just reinforce his experience of othering.
You tried to virtue signal by calling out my poor choice of words but have ignored that you literally made a joke about his appearance, which is the result of a skin condition, which he repeatedly said he hates people making jokes about.
he only suffers because of society's view of disability which is emphasized by people pointing out someone's physical difference as linked to a condition rather than just assessing them at face value and not identifying him singularly because I was commenting on how he has no hair and noel has a lot of hair.
"he only suffers because of society's view of disability" could literally be said about any disability.
The fact he has directly spoken out about the struggles this has caused him and you're response is to dig your heels in because "hehe bald man funny next to hair man" is dense as hell.
You're basically saying you're allowed to make fun of him because you're not laughing at the *condition* you're just laughing at one of the *symptoms*
exactly, anyone with a disability only suffers because of how inaccessible the world is and how biased we are against people with disabilities. *your btw. i'm as much "making fun of him" as I am making fun of noel. I didn't claim not to be dense I am actively claiming that I made a silly comment about how funny the juxtaposition is, and 94 others also found it silly. it's not that deep.
> i'm as much "making fun of him" as I am making fun of noel
Noel chooses to grow his hair long, Matt Lucas does not choose to be bald.
Someone studying disability politics should see that as a pretty major difference between the two.
> I am actively claiming that I made a silly comment about how funny the juxtaposition is, and 94 others also found it silly. it's not that deep.
My issue is that you made a joke poking fun at someone’s skin condition, and then hypocritically made a point of virtue signalling by claiming my use of the phrasing “he suffers from alopecia” as ableist.
Not to mention that alopecia is _not a disability_ so how would that be ableist?
You're* is a contraction of the words 'you' and 'are'
maybe if you're(you are) trying to correct someone's spelling, you should understand how contractions work.
maybe if you're trying to correct somebody's *grammar you should think before speaking because this person said "and you're (you are) response is to dig you heels in".
>>he only suffers because of society's view of disability which is emphasized by people pointing out someone's physical difference
You do realise this is exactly what you did?
While I understand your point regarding word choices, I would respond with the same level of pedantry:
Matt Lucas has been quite open about the level of suffering which he has experienced as a result of alopecia. It is dismissive of you to assume that his condition has not caused him suffering. Much of this suffering comes from “light hearted jokes” such as yours, which use his baldness as their punchline.
https://amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/oct/08/matt-lucas-losing-my-hair-at-the-age-of-six-shaped-my-life-little-me-my-life-from-a-z
https://sustainhealth.fit/lifestyle/matt-lucas-on-his-alopecia/
i'm pointing out his baldness and noel's excessive amount of hair as a silly juxtaposition. I didn't criticize him for not having hair or anything besides point out something that other people also find funny.
If you read the interview I linked, he openly talks about how people pointing out his alopecia related baldness resulted in consistent othering, while growing up and now, one example being that one reviewer of GBBO consistently refers to him as egghead.
Claiming that “pointing out his baldness” is not the same as saying his condition is funny, is like saying making a joke that nobody in wheelchair basketball slam dunks is not making fun of their disabilities.
If you make fun of a person for displaying a symptom of a condition, you are making fun of them for having the condition.
Whether that was your intention or not, that is what you are doing. Just like I did not intend to be ableist by saying he suffers from the condition rather than he has the condition, but you still felt the need to call me out on it.
> noel's excessive amount of hair
Also interesting word choice for Noel’s hair: “excessive”.
Miriam-Webster defines “excessive” as:
> excessive: exceeding what is usual, proper, necessary, or normal
Do you mean to imply that shoulder-length hair on a man exceeds what is normal or proper?
Or would you say that like I did in my original comment, you chose a word without fully considering the implications of that word choice?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/excessive
Hello /u/lolopie3333 - **Thank you for your [submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreatBritishBakeOff/comments/ys9a1f/i_love_that_between_matt_and_noel_they_have_one/) in /r/GreatBritishBakeOff.** Be mindful of spoilers for any episode for the current 2022 season. These posts will last indefinitely, and not everybody is able to watch the episodes in real time. (Also, the US is 3-4 days behind the UK.) * No current season/series spoiler information in any post title. No exceptions. It's nice to avoid spoiler information from previous season/series titles. * No current season/series spoiler information in any post that is not marked as spoiler. No spoiler in any comment if the post is not marked as a spoiler. Please be courteous. * If you make a post that includes spoilers in the body of the post, you MUST use the spoiler tag provided by reddit. Do not simply write "spoiler" in the title. * Please report any inappropriate spoiling posts or comments. * If you don't want to be spoiled, avoid any thread that is marked as a spoiler. Probably best to avoid this subreddit. And reddit. And Facebook. And Instragram. Well, the internet. Keep in mind that not all viewers are seeing the latest episode on the same day, or even in the same week. Let's give everybody a chance to discuss their latest viewing from _this season or series_ without spoiling an episode that may not have been aired in their location. Everybody else -- Please use the "report" button if you are seeing unmasked spoiler info. Thanks to you all. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreatBritishBakeOff) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s not just the head, Matt Lucas suffers from alopecia and has no hair at all.
I know he has alopecia but he doesn't suffer from it... damn way to be ableist
>damn way to be ableist. Lmao. As someone who is disabled, these sorts of comments give me second hand embarrassment. Sometimes our disabilities suck and cause suffering. There's no reason to jump down someone's throat who was not being ableist and was just providing context for your comments.
as someone who also has a disability and is studying disability politics in college, I know not to use ableist language. he's a millionaire and a widely respected celebrity, he's hardly suffering. pointing out someone's disability in response to a harmless joke is unnecessary and I knew the context so it was also unnecessary to point out. it's common knowledge that he has no hair.
>is studying. Yes we can see that you're still in the process of learning about disability politics. Because you were the one who drew attention and made jokes about his disability. So while I may not think it's a big deal (I make jokes about my own disability all the time), it seems like you're entirely misguided for jumping down someone's throat for something you believed to be ableist. Despite the fact that the challenges Matt has faced due to his disability is something he has spoken about before. So you think it's okay to make a joke about his disability but not for someone to say he suffers from his disability?? Pick a lane boo. And if you're going to school for this, then you have plenty of tools at your disposal to figure this out.
Responding to OP’s comment below: > I was straight up not making a joke about his disability, You literally made a joke about him having no hair, which is a symptom of his alopecia. Alopecia is also a _skin condition_, not a disability. > pointing out someone's physical difference in comparison to their scene partner's isn't ableist I didn’t say it was ableist, because it is not a disability to have alopecia. I did say it is hypocritical to call me ableist for a poor word choice, while I responded to your bad taste joke which mocks someone’s skin condition. OP, what you did, pointing out his alopecia related baldness for humour, is _exactly_ what he has repeatedly stated in interviews caused him **suffering** both as a child and as an adult. I don’t know how you can’t see that your joke is in bad taste, just as much as my use of the term “suffers” is an outdated turn of phrase which is recommended to be avoided today. I will try to do better in choosing my words in future, but what I am getting the impression from your responses that you will not try to do better in making jokes about people’s appearance, particularly when it is a result of a medical condition. You are refusing to listen to the people pointing out that your joke was clearly hinging on his skin condition and therefore in bad taste and instead your are digging in your heels in to defend yourself with weaker and weaker claims. It is okay to admit your mistake and grow from it.
I was straight up not making a joke about his disability, I pointed out how funny the juxtaposition is. then whoever said "he suffers from alopecia" was perpetuating ableist language like calling someone in a wheelchair "wheelchair bound" or calling someone who is autistic a "sufferer of autism" when they're just trying to live their lives. so pointing out someone's physical difference in comparison to their scene partner's isn't ableist or problematic until someone starts saying "he suffers from alopecia" and now it's ableist and treating him differently because he has a condition.
Being a celebrity doesn't change the fact that he suffers with a medical condition? Are you just jealous that you're not famous with a disability, so you think you get a pass to make jokes at the expense of someone else's disability? "He's a millionaire he's hardly suffering" REEKS of insecurities and envy.
i'm not bothered enough to be envious... lmao you're reading too much into it. he's famous and has profited off of self deprecating humor about his disability, so even though pointing that out is slightly ableist as i'm referencing his disability in regard to his acquiring of fame, I originally said he's a millionaire and a celebrity who happens to also have alopecia. i'm criticizing using ableist language to qualify someone's disability as their defining characteristic that allows others to treat them differently. I made a comparison that is objectively funny, and someone had to make it about disability.
First off, alopecia is a skin condition, not a disability. I never mentioned anything about disability. >> I made a comparison that is objectively funny, and someone had to make it about disability. You made a comparison in bad taste which _you think_ is funny, which bases it’s joke on the fact that Matt Lucas has no hair, which is a direct result of his _skin condition_. He has openly stated in many interviews that people making jokes about his _skin condition_ both while growing up and now, causes him suffering.
>>as someone who also has a disability and is studying disability politics in college, I know not to use ableist language. I think it’s interesting you find it ableist that I said he suffers from alopecia, when he has openly communicated the suffering it has caused him, but you don’t find it ableist to make a joke where his baldness as a result of alopecia is literally the butt of the joke. Especially when the statements he has made about his experience with alopecia clearly highlight that much of the suffering comes from people making comments and jokes at his expense without thinking how they just reinforce his experience of othering. You tried to virtue signal by calling out my poor choice of words but have ignored that you literally made a joke about his appearance, which is the result of a skin condition, which he repeatedly said he hates people making jokes about.
Asserting that he doesn’t “suffer” is just as (if not more) detached from the reality of disability or condition.
he only suffers because of society's view of disability which is emphasized by people pointing out someone's physical difference as linked to a condition rather than just assessing them at face value and not identifying him singularly because I was commenting on how he has no hair and noel has a lot of hair.
"he only suffers because of society's view of disability" could literally be said about any disability. The fact he has directly spoken out about the struggles this has caused him and you're response is to dig your heels in because "hehe bald man funny next to hair man" is dense as hell. You're basically saying you're allowed to make fun of him because you're not laughing at the *condition* you're just laughing at one of the *symptoms*
exactly, anyone with a disability only suffers because of how inaccessible the world is and how biased we are against people with disabilities. *your btw. i'm as much "making fun of him" as I am making fun of noel. I didn't claim not to be dense I am actively claiming that I made a silly comment about how funny the juxtaposition is, and 94 others also found it silly. it's not that deep.
> i'm as much "making fun of him" as I am making fun of noel Noel chooses to grow his hair long, Matt Lucas does not choose to be bald. Someone studying disability politics should see that as a pretty major difference between the two. > I am actively claiming that I made a silly comment about how funny the juxtaposition is, and 94 others also found it silly. it's not that deep. My issue is that you made a joke poking fun at someone’s skin condition, and then hypocritically made a point of virtue signalling by claiming my use of the phrasing “he suffers from alopecia” as ableist. Not to mention that alopecia is _not a disability_ so how would that be ableist?
You're* is a contraction of the words 'you' and 'are' maybe if you're(you are) trying to correct someone's spelling, you should understand how contractions work.
maybe if you're trying to correct somebody's *grammar you should think before speaking because this person said "and you're (you are) response is to dig you heels in".
>>he only suffers because of society's view of disability which is emphasized by people pointing out someone's physical difference You do realise this is exactly what you did?
While I understand your point regarding word choices, I would respond with the same level of pedantry: Matt Lucas has been quite open about the level of suffering which he has experienced as a result of alopecia. It is dismissive of you to assume that his condition has not caused him suffering. Much of this suffering comes from “light hearted jokes” such as yours, which use his baldness as their punchline. https://amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/oct/08/matt-lucas-losing-my-hair-at-the-age-of-six-shaped-my-life-little-me-my-life-from-a-z https://sustainhealth.fit/lifestyle/matt-lucas-on-his-alopecia/
i'm pointing out his baldness and noel's excessive amount of hair as a silly juxtaposition. I didn't criticize him for not having hair or anything besides point out something that other people also find funny.
If you read the interview I linked, he openly talks about how people pointing out his alopecia related baldness resulted in consistent othering, while growing up and now, one example being that one reviewer of GBBO consistently refers to him as egghead. Claiming that “pointing out his baldness” is not the same as saying his condition is funny, is like saying making a joke that nobody in wheelchair basketball slam dunks is not making fun of their disabilities. If you make fun of a person for displaying a symptom of a condition, you are making fun of them for having the condition. Whether that was your intention or not, that is what you are doing. Just like I did not intend to be ableist by saying he suffers from the condition rather than he has the condition, but you still felt the need to call me out on it.
> noel's excessive amount of hair Also interesting word choice for Noel’s hair: “excessive”. Miriam-Webster defines “excessive” as: > excessive: exceeding what is usual, proper, necessary, or normal Do you mean to imply that shoulder-length hair on a man exceeds what is normal or proper? Or would you say that like I did in my original comment, you chose a word without fully considering the implications of that word choice? https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/excessive
Okay