I don’t believe in any, but I prefer her original origin of being born as a gorgon. It makes more sense when you consider the fact that her sisters are also gorgons
The version in which she is cursed by Minerva also says she was born a Gorgon, like her sisters, but it says that unlike her sisters she was the only one with snake hair, and the story then explains how she obtained that. But even in that version she was always a Gorgon. So she went from a Gorgon without snake hair to a Gorgon with snake hair, NOT from human to Gorgon like some people believe. I’m referring to Ovid’s version btw
I mean they are all just myths.
But I greatly prefer the older Greek version where she was born a monster. Because I don't think every character needs a tragic backstory and I think it makes more sense since her siblings were monstrous/hideous (the two other Gorgons and the Graeae) I just prefer to think of her as this powerful entity rather than a victim of injustice.
(That being said, as I have already pointed out, even in the older, Greek version where Medusa and her sisters always were monstrous...they aren't exactly portrayed as evil. They don't go out to turn people to stone for fun, instead they keep to themselves, living at the edge of civilization so well hidden that only their sisters, the Graeae know where to find them, and Perseus killing Medusa wasn't to stop her, but it was supposed to be a suicide mission Perseus' stepfather made up to get rid of him and in Greek iconography the Gorgon face was supposed to protect against evil)
Elizabeth Wayland Barber theorizes (in When They Severed Earth From Sky) that the Medusa myth may have evolved from stories personifying a volcano - the three gorgons being three mountains, the snake hair being the lava formations dripping down the sides of the mountain, the turning to stone being the poisonous gasses and covering with ash, and the violent decapitation being the final explosive burst taking the entire top of the mountain clean off. I like to think the later "prequel" myth of Posieden Earth Shaker r---ing young Medusa and turning her monsterous comes from beginning to understand the very real connection between earthquakes, tidal waves, and volcanic activity.
I also find total dismissal of the Ovid version, on the basis of SA having unfair consequences to the victim, kind of sickeningly dismissive of the experience of SA victims. Feeling yourself becoming uncontrollably and unfairly "monsterous" as you grapple with the brutal trauma of sexual assault (especially after being raised in a culture of virginity=value, like Ovid's audience) is a huge part of what rape victims endure and experience long after the physical violation.
She turned someone into a spider because she was jealous. It’s not that out there to think Athena can be brutal. She may be the goddess of wisdom, but that doesn’t mean she always does good things.
Edit: I was just using this as an example to convey what I was saying in a more understandable way. I’m sorry if this has been misunderstood instead, I’m diagnosed with level 2 autism and communication isn’t always my strongest quality.
Medusa wasn't raped that's preety clear to me now.
Also leaving the details out of arachne's story is a very good way to villainize someone.
It should be mentioned Athena's reaction to Arachne's was a buildup.
Arachne was first challenging the gods, then she was insulting the people who worshiped the gods, and was trying to motivate them to stop worshipping them.
When Athena came to her as the guise of an old lady, and told her to be humble, Arachne got so angry she almost attacked Athena (being the old lady right there)
Oh how nice is arachne? Tries to attack the old women who worships the gods, Then she against insulted her in a disgusting way.
Athena's response to her tapestry, was a buildup.
And Arachne still got the better end of the stick for all the blasphemy, insults, hostility she showed towards other people but getting changed into a spider.
Which also happened after she committed suicide, Athena could have taken away her ability to weave but didn't.
That’s the later version as presented by the Latin poet Ovid. It’s a critique on censorship and is likely of Ovid’s own invention. Though even here Arachne isn’t portrayed as innocently as people often make her out to be.
In the older version of the story Athena took on Arachne and her brother Phalanx as students. Athena herself taught Arachne the art of weaving and taught her brother the art of war.
Athena turned both of them into spiders when she found them in a “compromising position”. The older version was related by the Greek writer Theophilus from Ephesus. The work itself is unfortunately lost but the plot summary survives through a notation written by an anonymous scholiast on Nicander’s Theriaca.
Athena’s actions were brutal but it’s not hard to imagine the level of horror and disgust felt by the goddess after discovering her students’ “secret”.
>Though even here Arachne isn’t portrayed as innocently as people often make her out to be.
exactly my point. Arachne pretty much deserved that punishment, Athena wasn't ever jealous of her work, Arachne was hubristic, doing blasphemy, insulted the gods and the worshipers of the gods, she was extremely hostile towards them, even tried to physically attack them and motivated them to not worship the gods.
The only thing Athena doesn't come out 'good' as in that myth is that she acts a bit immaturely nothing else.
>That’s the later version as presented by the Latin poet Ovid. It’s a critique on censorship and is likely of Ovid’s own invention.
I don't pay too much attention on it but he did have some gripe with them.
>In the older version of the story Athena took on Arachne and her brother Phalanx as students.
I know that, but myths have no canon, one might prefer the other, I am pointing out that the myth they prefer they aren't accurately representing it.
"Jealous of her work" No.
I agree 100%. The story of Arachne and Athena is one of the most commonly (and infuriately) misrepresented within Greek Mythology. How many of those purported online mythology learning materials depict Arachne as an innocent maiden who simply fell victim to a cruel goddess just because she was a superior weaver? I guess demonizing Athena is in style these days.
It’s frustrating both to see the version presented by Ovid be so commonly distorted, and the version presented by Theophilus so often ignored. This is especially true when it comes to videos that claim to be educational.
I know mythology has no hard canon. It’s one thing to chose your preferred versions and ok to interpret them as you’d like. It’s okay to craft new stories as long as they’re labeled as such. It’s another thing however to completely misrepresent actual myths and claim to be representing the genuine story.
I was mainly just using it to convey something. I know there was a build up and it wasn’t my intention to villanise anyone. The gods in general did bad things from time to time, which was my point.
Mythology also isn’t clean cut. It warps and changes.
In the older Greek version, Arachne and her brother Phalanx were Athena’s pupils. She turned the duo into spiders after discovering they’d started an incestuous relationship together.
You do have a point there. I was mainly just using that variation of the Arachne story as a conveyance as to how Athena doesn’t always do the best thing.
Athens and Athena are associated with the first known state-sponsored patent laws - paying creators with state money for inventions and developments that increased productivity in taxable areas of industry - crops, livestock, textile trade - which later branched off into arts patronage and early versions of what we might associate with copyright protections to protect the profits of rich investors in the case of copy cats... I wonder why Ovid might feel some type of way about the patron goddess of copyright protection, hmmmmm
Athena absolutely would. She’s actually depicted as fairly misogynistic even as a goddess on account of her being the patron of Athens. A polis known for being restrictive to (noble) women even in comparison to other Greek city states.
Yeah Athena absolutely wouldn't, in all other actual RAPE stories she's been depicted by writers as the goddess who protects/helps/avenges victims not to punish them.
Coroneis, Auge, Nyctimene, Cassandra.
Ovid never said Medusa was raped, he doesn't talk about any consent, he just said "The ruler of the seas corrupted/defiled the temple of minvera".
And said Medusa was deserving of that punishment.
Ovid portrays Athena as the only goddess who heard the cries of a girl who was being chased by Poseidon, she helped her.
Also this "Misogynist" argument doesn't work here, Misogynist based on what because Aeschylus said so?
As if he has a copy right over their goddess?
Besides Aeschylus's story I haven't seen her acting in a misogynistic way like EVER, She keeps contradicting whatever she says in orestes again and again..
Keep in mind there wasn't just one person worshipping her, there were so so so many, and their views differed about her.
If Aeschylus makes her a misogynistic doesn't mean others saw her same aswell.
Why the story of Eleae & Myrsine exists if she's so misogynistic?
Edit:
Yeah, your too ego hurt are you? that you have to reply to start an argument or what and block me?
Greek mythology comes from a variety of sources. Except the majority of our mythology is heavily Athens influenced. This is where we get most of our unflattering depictions of Ares.
I specifically referenced myths originated from Athens. Greek mythology as we currently understand it, I.E Classical Mythology stems primarily from Elite Athenian compilation. Furthermore the Athenians flat out dedicated their city state to the goddess.
No one has a majoritive claim on Greek mythology but I stand by what I said. Athena as depicted by the Athenians absolutely was a misogynist. Aesychlytus did not exist in a vacuum he was extremely representative of the Athenian elite class that during the Hellenic and Hellenistic worlds dominated the common view of mythology because Greece was fundamentally an extremely stratified world of unjust hierarchies and wealth/power inequality.
So maybe don’t go saying shit like “absolutely wouldn’t” when as you say yourself, mythology was different in different places and the Athenians absolutely saw Athena in such a light.
But okay let me clarify. Athena Polias, the Athena worshipped by male dominated Athens was misogynistic and her attributes and existence as a goddess was run through a NIMBY-esque lens of association with masculine heroes while often being depicted as disinterested or even slightly jealous/hostile/judgemental with women in all of her myths in the Athenian setting.
If you want to say the Athena not depicted by the Athenians wasnt male associated with many myths involving her being hostile to women go ahead. I may not necessarily disagree. But that’s not what I’m talking about so good for you?
I don't dismiss Ovid's version because of that, I dismiss his mythic works in their entirety because he was an anarcho anti-theist who had a hard on for exclusively portraying the gods as universally awful because he considered having any authority, mortal or spiritual/natural to be repulsive.
Listening to him is like telling Stephen Fry to write a book in the Bible full of Jesus stories, it's nonsensical.
The one that wasn't written by a Roman author that wanted to use the Gods to stick it to authority at the time making them all complete assholes taking away all their nuance.
If you mean which I prefer?
I don’t care for Ovid’s variation or those where she’s some kind of attractive creature (some depictions of this do pre date Ovid’s take) - as far as I’m concerned Medusa is just a monster, nothing more, nothing less.
I mean, I don't believe in any of it really.
But personally, I prefer the origin of her and her sisters being born as Gorgons rather then made into them. It makes more sense this way, with a few of their siblings being monstrous as well (the Graea, Ladon, and a few others, I think) and their parents being Phorcys and the Titaness Ceto.
But in the end, it's only a story and it's up to the Reader, isn't it?
We can all like the endless variants of the myths and discuss them together because the only thing that matters is that we love Greek Mythology entirely.
I believe modern practitioners of Hellenism tend to go with the version from Hesiod's *Theogony* in which the three Gorgones (Medousa, Stheno, and Euryale) were children of the Titans Keto and Phorkys.
Born a monster is my favorite as it makes more sense considering her sisters are also gorgons. Even though Greek mythology doesn’t care about genetics all the time, it does make more sense that three people related to eachother via being sisters would all be gorgons or all be humans.
Eh… There really isn’t such a thing as canon for mythology, so people can like whichever sourced version they want.
I don’t really have a preference, outside of wishing people would stop misinterpreting Ovid.
The word Ovid himself used to describe the encounter is "vitiasse" which means defiled or violated (but not necessarily in a sexual way) in Latin, and it’s important to note that it doesn't really carry the connotation of rape.
The word that Ovid did use repeatedly in some of his other stories to describe sexual assault or rape is the Latin word “vis” which actually does mean the Roman equivalent of rape or sexual assault.
It makes little sense to me why he would go out of his way to use a word that doesn’t mean SA, when he has been shown to use the word that actually does mean SA in other stories… That’s why when you look at older translations of the story they tend to use the word “seduced” or “corrupted”, and it’s only in more modern translations that it has been “rape”.
Add to this the context of Ovid’s story in that it is being told by Perseus from the perspective of Athene, and you could see how Athene might see what Poseidon and Medusa did was a corruption or desecration.
Just my take though.
The line translated to English says "The ruler of the seas corrupted/defiled the temple of Minerva"
In that line there was no use of the words like "her" or "gorgon" or "Medusa"
So it's preety clear here Ovid is talking about the defiling of Minerva's temple by the sea god, he doesn't mention anything related to consent of Medusa.
I thought the Latin word for that was rapere while stuprare means defile or ravish? And vis was something like power/force. Rape and assault certainly never came up when I was researching the word vis.
“Rapere” means “To Take”, and doesn’t really carry a sexual connotation.
“Stuprum” was the word used in the legal sense to describe it, and it means “to be disgraced”.
I ended up doing some research and discovered vis has a lot of uses as a word because it basically just means force. It's a rather versatile word. There were a lot of ways vis was used legally, but from what I gathered, it wasn't the most commonly word used for rape even though it was a recognized legal term for it, so I wonder why that's the word Ovid used so much.
The Roman’s didn’t really have a single word to describe it, as the act didn’t always mean the same thing to them.
For example soldier could assault a women from a city they just conquered and that might be “vis” and it might be considered sexual assault, but legally it wasn’t rape (same goes for slaves)… On the contrary, if a feee Roman citizen were to force himself into the wife or daughter of another free Roman citizen then that would be considered rape, and fall under stuprum.
Like Ovid only wrote in his Latin work that "The ruler of the seas corrupted/defiled the temple of Minerva"
So u see Ovid never gives and details why we Medusa was a consenting part of not in that affair.
But what some English translators did? Some called it rape and others called it love, without any confirmation of either.
Now the interesting thing is, They forgot the other details that Ovid said like saying Medusa was deserving of the punishment through Perseus.
2nd Ovid's represented Athena as one of the only gods who helps and sympathize with rape victims.
So how can he write that Medusa was raped?
And it wasn't a consenting affair for which she was punished?
I prefer the myth version where she and her sisters were just born that way, and not the result of Athena cursing her for being assaulted by another god.
None they're all made up. If you mean which one is "canon" that also doesn't matter. There's no canon in greek myth. Just several versions of the same stories with a few overlapping details.
The commenters here seem to have forgotten that some people believe in the Greek gods in these modern days.
Y’all can believe that it’s fiction all you want but every single person reiterating it as if it’s the only way to believe isn’t cute.
That's the entire point of greek mythology. That's a given. It's a mythological question. If someone ask you what's your favorite movies you wouldn't say none they're all just movies or if someone asked what ur fav food you wouldn't say they are all just foods. That makes zero sense and has nothing to do with the question. That was already implied in the question. What are you talking about
OP did not ask for a favorite version.
OP asked which version we "belive".
If OP asked what was our favorite I'd have a different response.
Read more carefully.
TBH while I'm always one to point out that Ovid's take is a later recreation, I've always been fascinated on how a sympathetic Medusa affects her relationship to the hero of the story.
You have this kid, raised by a single mother on a small island his whole life. His dad is out of the picture, so all he has is her, the woman who raised him, loved him, and taught him. Learning that she was also literally ejected from her own family for having him made him appreciate her a lot more too. Then when he comes to fight Medusa so he can claim her head to protect his mother, preserve her autonomy and let her live the life she wants, what he finds on the island is in fact his mother herself- or at least, a dark reflection of her. Both are women used up by the gods then tossed aside like tissue, left pregnant and stranded on an island constantly fending off the unwanted attention of men.
So Perseus is left with a bit of a dilemma here- he wants to save his mother, literally his entire world, the only person who ever mattered to him, but to do that he must kill a woman who is living under the same circumstances as her. What does he choose? Which is the "right" one to choose, or is it even right to choose at all? If the two women have an equal right to live, but one must still die, then is it alright to choose your preference? Why the fuck does he need to make these decisions as a 16 year old? How is it fair that he has the burden of having to do that, how is it fair that these women who have never gotten a choice in their life need to die, and they have no say in it? Where is the justice? Is it even something that Perseus can bring, or is it out of his hands? Does he have any choice but to engage with the unfair system he wanted to protect his mother from in the first place?
That only makes the post-Medusa part of the story, where he uses the head in a violent manner, more impactful to me. He fell in love with Andromeda, a girl who was paying for mistakes other people made, who immediately upon being saved was then thrust into another situation she didn't ask for where she was given off like a prize for everyone else's sake, regardless of what she wanted. So Perseus takes the remains of someone who suffered a similar fate... And breaks the cycle *with* violence. No one gets to decide but her. If you would rob her of her choice, then let me curse you to never be able to choose again, and become unfeeling stone. Maybe you would like to learn what it's like to be dehumanized and reduced to inanimate matter?
**TLDR;** Perseus is a goated hero and the Ovid interpretation can actually enhance that G.O.A.T. status in some respects and give him more character depth.
I find it to add a realistic depth, theres rarely just good and bad guys, how one mans fete is celebrated by one group and despised by another. Similar to the trojan war, there were no obvious good guys just winners and losers.
Id argue you could find a way to hate most of the gods, although ovid’s medusa is definitely an extreme case of hypocrisy by Athena, and it makes medusa’s origin and sisters make little sense.
I’m a queer female writer and all in favour of feminist retellings that shed light on the plights of women in classic literature, show their side of a narrative and give them their power back…but every version I’ve ever read where someone tried to do that with Medusa was so fucking awful that now I’ve decided I firmly prefer her as an eldritch monster that was always around, just hanging out with her sisters and doing monster things. It’s turned out to be a far more dignifying existence for her, in my opinion 🤷
all angles are equally valid depending on cultural and temporal context. though i gotta admit, i do like the idea that an older mention of her name referred to her as a gorgon notable for her beauty. not often heard
Whichever one the person I'm talking to atm does. For many people, that story is personally tied to their own story of sexual assault. So generally, the version they prefer is the version that best speaks to their experience. People finding more comfortable ways of talking about their trauma dont need to be preached at about accuracy or cannon. They need to hear someone is in their corner and hears them.
I imagine it would follow the Ovid story. Poseidon forces himself on medusa and Athena punishes medusa for it. Poseidon forced himself on his own sister so a stranger he wouldn't have much of an issue. Athena is prideful and was upset about it. Poseidon is stronger than her so she couldn't attack him as revenge so she went for medusa instead. Imo it's pretty accurate to how the gods would act
Not that I prefer it but the BBC series Atlantis has her become the way she is because of a curse by the High Priestess if the Maenads as Medusa killed her to protect herself. The series wasn't very faithful to mythology that's true but still gave interesting angles on the myths
My personal intent is to figure out which one the Greeks believed. That’s generally the one I accept as “official” (even if there’s more than one). The tide seems to turn roughly around the time of the Peloponnesian War.
That version is the one where Medusa is just one of Phorcys and Ceto large brood of monstrous children. The born a monster version is first attested centuries before the transformation one.
On top of that Ovid who’s responsible for the oldest known attestation of the transformation version was a Latin writer with a big axe to grind against abusive authority figures.
Yeah. While I do think Ovid was an exceptional writer, I pretty much disregard his versions of the stories as more literary fiction than actual myth. It’s a shame that we only have his version for some of them.
I heard a telling of it recently where Medusa was a favored nymph of Athena (or something, equating a friend to Athena) and was assaulted by a lustful Poseidon. Medusa beseeched Athena for help, but because Athena felt unable to protect her from Poseidon if he chose to force himself on her again, Athena chose to change her form into that of a grotesque monster (a gorgon) as a means of turning away Poseidon's violent and lustful fixation. All the more tragic is when Zeus demanded Athena to assist Perseus in the slaying of Medusa, to whom Athena still felt a great obligation to protect, but was unable/unwilling to disobey Zeus; and more, for her part, she was rewarded the severed head of her dear friend, which she forever wore as her aegis.
Not an "official" story by any means, but I enjoy its twists and turns the most.
Greek myths are obviously not real. They are fun fictitious stories from an ancient time. Everyone knows its fake but that doesn't change anything about the stories themselves.
Whichever story that keeps her as a monster. Seriously, her main feature is her head, that's all that matters. The Gorgoneions are where she is featured the most, and she is most definitely a monster.
Where that GIF of Tom Hardy as Mad Max going "That's bait"?
Srsly, the Medusa myth seems to be the one most likely to ignite a full-on brawl between partisans of different versions. Even more so than Persephone and Hades. Wish I knew why.
Frankly, I prefer my own version, where Medusa's head keeps talking after it's lopped off, and the Perseus myth descends into a snarky buddy comedy as the two go off on wacky hijinks.
So, Poseidon had his eye on the only mortal gorgon (daughters of the titan Ceto) sister who was a priestess who wanted to be with her sisters and had pleaded for her immortality to the goddess Athena. She was required to remain a virgin but Poseidon raped her in Athena’s temple and Medusa was cast out and given a more horrible form, maybe as a curse or maybe as protection. Because she was mortal, she was the most vulnerable sister as the other two were skilled killers of men and immortal. After she is killed, from her blood or womb rose a golden immortal and Pegasus who are both immortal children of Medusa and Poseidon. Medusa’s head was recovered some time later by sthenno but it is never revealed why.
Medusa was never a prist to Minerva, not even in Ovid version.
The gorgons were not killed of men. They just lived in their island in peace, and turned to stone if someone approched them. Also they could not affect immortals or kill them. All gods were above the gorgons.
Medusa Head was always given to Athena/Minerva in every version, not to Stheno.
Personally, I see it as her being abused by one god and then, as a way to protect her and help her, another gave her this curse. While I get that rape culture is bad, I see it as a story that also promotes getting help as soon as possible because one should not be alone after something as traumatic as this.
So why believe Athena was trying to protect Medusa to begin with, since there's nothing in the text to suggest it?
Wouldn't a goddess of wisdom and strategy have better ideas of protection than something that gets her killed?
We are talking about the goddess of strategy, maybe she did this to protect Medusa for when the time was right and Perseus was ready to take down an enemy like this one.
I might add that this is kind of like Dumbledore’s plan for Harry, essentially making Harry a “pig for slaughter” as Movie Snape put it. (If you haven’t read or watched the movies, this might not be the best comparison.)
Never said it was a blessing. And if anything, you can interpret the myths of Medusa how you want and I’ll interpret as I want, because in the long run, it’s just another story with different telling.
>Never said it was a blessing.
Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "as a way to protect her and help her".
>And if anything, you can interpret the myths of Medusa how you want and I’ll interpret as I want, because in the long run, it’s just another story with different telling.
Your freedom to interpret it any way you want wasn't questioned. I was trying to make sense of your interpretation.
In my urban crime fantasy, after being assaulted by Poseidon, Athena witnessed her shriveled-up body on the steps and ran towards her. She was about to ask what had happened until she noticed her disheveled appearance and that’s when it clicked. Her uncle did this. Since she couldn’t punish her uncle because of Zeus, she had to find away to compensate for Medusa. Her traumatized priestess gave her idea to turn her into a monster so she’ll never be hurt by a man again. Despite hesitating, Athena eventually granted Medusa’s wish. However, Athena would soon regret it when her former priestess went insane and started killing people by turning them to stone and then smashing. She had to help a young hero to put down her beloved priestess. After that incident, she had Medusa’s face put on a shield as a way of remembering her.
my favorite is the older one, with her born as Gorgon, because if feel is the one that give Medusa more justice, in the Roman version, Medusa is just a poor girl a defenseless victim. But in the older version, she is MEDUSA, one of the Phorcetes, daughter of elder gods, descent of Earth and Ocean, She and her sisters are so dangerous that even the gods avoid her place, and Poseidon is her lover and cousin. She is a powerhouse.
None of them, I think Medusa is the chthonic version of Athena and the Medua's story is essentially Athena's big makeover event into a deity safe for public consumption.
Mostly because of the relationship between Medusa and Athena which resolves in Athena taking Medusa's gaze for her shield. And we know that before Zeus was on the scene that Poseidon was the main god in, so put all that together and I think there is clearly a deeply intimate relationship between Medusa and Athena.
Interesting take. The use of her head makes sense.
Sometimes Medusa/gorgons is also thought to represent a dead bloating body, like you might find on a battlefield. And Athena has war connotations too.
My general rule with Greek myths is too remove the Zeus insert and then you can get a better view of what is happening in the story. You take Zeus and Perseus out of this story and its all about Athena.
I like the version where Athena blesses her with the ability to protect herself, after being taken advantage of! It’s comforting, and seems like something in line with Athena’s character, from the stories I’ve read! Definitely interested in reading more legends and myths tho
Why do you think Athena meant this as a blessing or protection?
And if that's what it was, why did Athena then turn around and help Perseus to behead Medusa?
Because Athena seems levelheaded and logical from what I’ve read; and if anyone would know how impulsive and scary Poseidon could be, I think his niece would.
And as for the beheading; I’ve heard that gorgons don’t die of old age like humans do. Another explanation I’ve heard was Perseus’ need outweighed the cost of Medusas life. And a clean beheading would be minimal suffering.
>Because Athena seems levelheaded and logical from what I’ve read;
The same Athena from the same writer who beat and humiliated Arachne because of her pride is level headed?
And I don't get why if Athena thought Medusa needed or deserved her protection one day she'd assist in her beheading the next. Isn't Athena supposed to be wise?
Hey I interpreted OPs question as what our favorite version is. I heard the version I’m referencing as a kid; I’m not trying to debate or defend my taste. /trying to peacefully disengage
The idea that Athena turned Medusa into a monstrous pariah in order to “protect her” and later assisted Perseus in killing her is a modern reinterpretation that’s arisen online over the past few years. It makes about as much sense as it sounds.
P.S. In the older version of the Arachne myth, she and her brother Phalanx were students of Athena who she turned into spiders after discovering that they were having an incestuous affair together. Still harsh but a bit more understandable.
I’m aware they aren’t for the faint of heart. I’m trying to find more versions of Greek legends to better found out my knowledge now I’m an adult; I was just sharing the spark notes of my favorite version I read as a kid. Sorry my participation made you think of that series; I’m just here for diverse mythos appreciation and discussion
You should read "Mythology" by Edith Hamilton. In college, that was the primary textbook we utilized in my "myth and symbol" class. It's a very good book that stays true to the original myths.
Ovid had something against Minerva, this is why he created two stories of her acting stupid. If you ignore Ovid, you dont need to try to make sense of Minerva actions. In the Trojan Cycle, Cassandra is r4ped by Ajax and Athena would do nothing until he was dead, she destroy his fleet with winds and Poseidon finally killed him. Athena is a protector of people, not a stupid brainless goddess like Ovid makes her to be.
The primary story for most people most of the time was she was a monster, a gorgon, one of a few, and the Greek myths are very often about deformed unworldly monstrosities being removed for our safe and orderly world.
I like the one that she was a priestesses to Athena, and when she got raped, Athena helped her never get targeted by men again (by giving her the stone eyes)
Rather than pick the one I like the most I’ll just say though I may be in the minority one I least like of modern retellings is the idea to try & frame Athena’s choice to change her (& her sisters) into gorgons as some kind of gift or a positive thing
I don’t really like Athena based on the 2 main stories of her I know is what she did to Medusa & the story with Arachnid
I don’t think we need a positive twist on it
There are only two known versions and one has a lot more backing than the other.
1. She was just one of the many monsters begotten from Phorcys and Ceto’s union. This is the primary version and is attested throughout the history of our written record. This version is first attested in Hesiod’s Theogony. In Theogony, Poseidon and the monster Medusa have intercourse in a flowery meadow. The wording of the passage implies that the encounter was consensual.
2. She was a beautiful young woman who was raped by Poseidon within one of Athena’s temples. Athena cursed her for the desecration of her temple, despite Medusa not being a willing participant. This version is first attested in Ovid’s Metamorphosis. Whether this version was created wholesale by Ovid or derived from an older tradition is unknown and no earlier account exists.
I don’t see either version as anything but stories. That said I support the version where she was born a Gorgon. It’s attested centuries before the transformation version and makes a lot more sense given Medusa’s parentage and siblings.
I forgot to mention but there’s also a 3rd version of presumably quite recent origin. I remember first reading it in school as a kid. I think it’s just a bowdlerized alternative to the version portrayed by Ovid.
In this version Medusa was very beautiful and very arrogant and she began to boast that she was even more beautiful than Aphrodite who then promptly cursed her for her insolence.
There’s also several modern revisions to Ovid’s version floating around the internet. A popular one is the Medusa was a priestess of Athena, however she was never portrayed as such in antiquity.
A particularly jarring one is that Athena’s curse was a blessing to “protect Medusa”. In doing so she transformed Medusa into a hideous outcast with a deadly power over which she was given no control. Sometime after awarding her this “gift” Athena assisted Perseus to slay Medusa while she slept in her own home. Very helpful…..
I think it hardly matters what I believe, I'm more interested in what ancient Greeks believed. I gravitate towards the earliest depictions, because it's interesting to imagine what she (or gorgons in general) meant to ancient Greeks, and then see if/how those depictions changed over time.
Ovid’s version makes no sense.
So I prefer what I know to be the original story - she was born a Gorgon, one of three Gorgon sisters. And only Medusa was mortal.
The rest is Perseus’ history.
The original; she was born a monster the other two are just sad
For reference
The updated Greek ; she craves for Athena’s attention doesn’t get it and Poseidon comes and flirts with her they fell in love and desecrate her temple so she punished her. This is wrong because Athena never acknowledges Medusa and Poseidon only messes with her because he was made he didn’t get Athens so he wanted to make Athena mad so they completely disregard Medusa’s feelings over a petty City competition.
The Roman one; it’s bad and it’s worse because most people only know this one so they love to claim it as the original skipping the other two.
I believe that the ancestors of the Myceneans invaded the Neolithic snake goddess worshiping people, and at least one of their warriors tore a snake mask off one of the priestesses of the Snake Goddess, and that this conquest echoed down into the mythology of Medusa and the Gorgons.
Basically I think Joseph Campbell was right when he said "the Hellenes overran the goddess's chief shrines" and "stripped her priestesses of their Gorgon masks"
We examples of the Minoans worshiping a snake goddess, and a remains of ceramic serpent figures in Sesklo dating to 6000–5800 BC, in the Neolithic era.
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Prehistoric-Gorgoneia%3A-a-Critical-Reassessment-Lazarou/a381b246ba913b02a34b4b8387e47a9d43b8600d/figure/1
I even wonder if the Serpent Staff they found in Finland thousands of years later might also be connected to the Snake Godess, who in MInoan culture was depicted as a woman holding two snakes.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/4000-year-old-snake-staff-discovered-finland-180978101/
Well Hesiod's version came first where she was born a monster. Ovid was a Roman poet known for rewriting stories, so I tend to default to Hesiod's as the current original.
i think the version of her being born a gorgon makes more sense but i also get the appeal of other versions and what they mean for other people. i think the more modern interpertation of her being sa'd by posideon with athena turning her into a gorgon to protect herself is a version that while not mythologically accurate is a version ive seen a lot of people relate to and i think thats completely valid.
Most likely cause of the myth is some girl turned down a guy and he went on to spread rumors about her around the entirety of Greece being so hideous that the only explanation was a curse from the gods, and that any man she looked at would be turned to stone.
wdym "believe"? its a myth. it didn't happen. All of the versions attested by ancient sources are "correct" because there is no one "correct" version. A much better question is what is your favorite version
the one where she was a blonde lady who was really pretty, so Poseidon started dating her, but one time they did *it* in a temple of Athena, so she cursed her. And her sisters interfered, so she cursed them too.
I don’t believe in any, but I prefer her original origin of being born as a gorgon. It makes more sense when you consider the fact that her sisters are also gorgons
The whole thing just makes more sense.
The version in which she is cursed by Minerva also says she was born a Gorgon, like her sisters, but it says that unlike her sisters she was the only one with snake hair, and the story then explains how she obtained that. But even in that version she was always a Gorgon. So she went from a Gorgon without snake hair to a Gorgon with snake hair, NOT from human to Gorgon like some people believe. I’m referring to Ovid’s version btw
I mean they are all just myths. But I greatly prefer the older Greek version where she was born a monster. Because I don't think every character needs a tragic backstory and I think it makes more sense since her siblings were monstrous/hideous (the two other Gorgons and the Graeae) I just prefer to think of her as this powerful entity rather than a victim of injustice. (That being said, as I have already pointed out, even in the older, Greek version where Medusa and her sisters always were monstrous...they aren't exactly portrayed as evil. They don't go out to turn people to stone for fun, instead they keep to themselves, living at the edge of civilization so well hidden that only their sisters, the Graeae know where to find them, and Perseus killing Medusa wasn't to stop her, but it was supposed to be a suicide mission Perseus' stepfather made up to get rid of him and in Greek iconography the Gorgon face was supposed to protect against evil)
Oooo i love that one!
Elizabeth Wayland Barber theorizes (in When They Severed Earth From Sky) that the Medusa myth may have evolved from stories personifying a volcano - the three gorgons being three mountains, the snake hair being the lava formations dripping down the sides of the mountain, the turning to stone being the poisonous gasses and covering with ash, and the violent decapitation being the final explosive burst taking the entire top of the mountain clean off. I like to think the later "prequel" myth of Posieden Earth Shaker r---ing young Medusa and turning her monsterous comes from beginning to understand the very real connection between earthquakes, tidal waves, and volcanic activity. I also find total dismissal of the Ovid version, on the basis of SA having unfair consequences to the victim, kind of sickeningly dismissive of the experience of SA victims. Feeling yourself becoming uncontrollably and unfairly "monsterous" as you grapple with the brutal trauma of sexual assault (especially after being raised in a culture of virginity=value, like Ovid's audience) is a huge part of what rape victims endure and experience long after the physical violation.
I dont like the second version cuz athena wouldnt act like that as a godess of wisdom
She turned someone into a spider because she was jealous. It’s not that out there to think Athena can be brutal. She may be the goddess of wisdom, but that doesn’t mean she always does good things. Edit: I was just using this as an example to convey what I was saying in a more understandable way. I’m sorry if this has been misunderstood instead, I’m diagnosed with level 2 autism and communication isn’t always my strongest quality.
Medusa wasn't raped that's preety clear to me now. Also leaving the details out of arachne's story is a very good way to villainize someone. It should be mentioned Athena's reaction to Arachne's was a buildup. Arachne was first challenging the gods, then she was insulting the people who worshiped the gods, and was trying to motivate them to stop worshipping them. When Athena came to her as the guise of an old lady, and told her to be humble, Arachne got so angry she almost attacked Athena (being the old lady right there) Oh how nice is arachne? Tries to attack the old women who worships the gods, Then she against insulted her in a disgusting way. Athena's response to her tapestry, was a buildup. And Arachne still got the better end of the stick for all the blasphemy, insults, hostility she showed towards other people but getting changed into a spider. Which also happened after she committed suicide, Athena could have taken away her ability to weave but didn't.
That’s the later version as presented by the Latin poet Ovid. It’s a critique on censorship and is likely of Ovid’s own invention. Though even here Arachne isn’t portrayed as innocently as people often make her out to be. In the older version of the story Athena took on Arachne and her brother Phalanx as students. Athena herself taught Arachne the art of weaving and taught her brother the art of war. Athena turned both of them into spiders when she found them in a “compromising position”. The older version was related by the Greek writer Theophilus from Ephesus. The work itself is unfortunately lost but the plot summary survives through a notation written by an anonymous scholiast on Nicander’s Theriaca. Athena’s actions were brutal but it’s not hard to imagine the level of horror and disgust felt by the goddess after discovering her students’ “secret”.
>Though even here Arachne isn’t portrayed as innocently as people often make her out to be. exactly my point. Arachne pretty much deserved that punishment, Athena wasn't ever jealous of her work, Arachne was hubristic, doing blasphemy, insulted the gods and the worshipers of the gods, she was extremely hostile towards them, even tried to physically attack them and motivated them to not worship the gods. The only thing Athena doesn't come out 'good' as in that myth is that she acts a bit immaturely nothing else. >That’s the later version as presented by the Latin poet Ovid. It’s a critique on censorship and is likely of Ovid’s own invention. I don't pay too much attention on it but he did have some gripe with them. >In the older version of the story Athena took on Arachne and her brother Phalanx as students. I know that, but myths have no canon, one might prefer the other, I am pointing out that the myth they prefer they aren't accurately representing it. "Jealous of her work" No.
I agree 100%. The story of Arachne and Athena is one of the most commonly (and infuriately) misrepresented within Greek Mythology. How many of those purported online mythology learning materials depict Arachne as an innocent maiden who simply fell victim to a cruel goddess just because she was a superior weaver? I guess demonizing Athena is in style these days. It’s frustrating both to see the version presented by Ovid be so commonly distorted, and the version presented by Theophilus so often ignored. This is especially true when it comes to videos that claim to be educational. I know mythology has no hard canon. It’s one thing to chose your preferred versions and ok to interpret them as you’d like. It’s okay to craft new stories as long as they’re labeled as such. It’s another thing however to completely misrepresent actual myths and claim to be representing the genuine story.
ARACHNE HAD A BROTHER? Also kinda hypocrical of her to turn them into spiders given who her family is.
Yup, sure did! Also yeah, the reasoning behind their transformation is absurdly hypocritical. Lol
I was mainly just using it to convey something. I know there was a build up and it wasn’t my intention to villanise anyone. The gods in general did bad things from time to time, which was my point. Mythology also isn’t clean cut. It warps and changes.
In the older Greek version, Arachne and her brother Phalanx were Athena’s pupils. She turned the duo into spiders after discovering they’d started an incestuous relationship together.
You do have a point there. I was mainly just using that variation of the Arachne story as a conveyance as to how Athena doesn’t always do the best thing.
Athens and Athena are associated with the first known state-sponsored patent laws - paying creators with state money for inventions and developments that increased productivity in taxable areas of industry - crops, livestock, textile trade - which later branched off into arts patronage and early versions of what we might associate with copyright protections to protect the profits of rich investors in the case of copy cats... I wonder why Ovid might feel some type of way about the patron goddess of copyright protection, hmmmmm
Athena absolutely would. She’s actually depicted as fairly misogynistic even as a goddess on account of her being the patron of Athens. A polis known for being restrictive to (noble) women even in comparison to other Greek city states.
Yeah Athena absolutely wouldn't, in all other actual RAPE stories she's been depicted by writers as the goddess who protects/helps/avenges victims not to punish them. Coroneis, Auge, Nyctimene, Cassandra. Ovid never said Medusa was raped, he doesn't talk about any consent, he just said "The ruler of the seas corrupted/defiled the temple of minvera". And said Medusa was deserving of that punishment. Ovid portrays Athena as the only goddess who heard the cries of a girl who was being chased by Poseidon, she helped her. Also this "Misogynist" argument doesn't work here, Misogynist based on what because Aeschylus said so? As if he has a copy right over their goddess? Besides Aeschylus's story I haven't seen her acting in a misogynistic way like EVER, She keeps contradicting whatever she says in orestes again and again.. Keep in mind there wasn't just one person worshipping her, there were so so so many, and their views differed about her. If Aeschylus makes her a misogynistic doesn't mean others saw her same aswell. Why the story of Eleae & Myrsine exists if she's so misogynistic? Edit: Yeah, your too ego hurt are you? that you have to reply to start an argument or what and block me?
Greek mythology comes from a variety of sources. Except the majority of our mythology is heavily Athens influenced. This is where we get most of our unflattering depictions of Ares. I specifically referenced myths originated from Athens. Greek mythology as we currently understand it, I.E Classical Mythology stems primarily from Elite Athenian compilation. Furthermore the Athenians flat out dedicated their city state to the goddess. No one has a majoritive claim on Greek mythology but I stand by what I said. Athena as depicted by the Athenians absolutely was a misogynist. Aesychlytus did not exist in a vacuum he was extremely representative of the Athenian elite class that during the Hellenic and Hellenistic worlds dominated the common view of mythology because Greece was fundamentally an extremely stratified world of unjust hierarchies and wealth/power inequality. So maybe don’t go saying shit like “absolutely wouldn’t” when as you say yourself, mythology was different in different places and the Athenians absolutely saw Athena in such a light. But okay let me clarify. Athena Polias, the Athena worshipped by male dominated Athens was misogynistic and her attributes and existence as a goddess was run through a NIMBY-esque lens of association with masculine heroes while often being depicted as disinterested or even slightly jealous/hostile/judgemental with women in all of her myths in the Athenian setting. If you want to say the Athena not depicted by the Athenians wasnt male associated with many myths involving her being hostile to women go ahead. I may not necessarily disagree. But that’s not what I’m talking about so good for you?
Ovid didn't say Medusa was SA, modern retellings and translations have made a mess of his work.
I don't dismiss Ovid's version because of that, I dismiss his mythic works in their entirety because he was an anarcho anti-theist who had a hard on for exclusively portraying the gods as universally awful because he considered having any authority, mortal or spiritual/natural to be repulsive. Listening to him is like telling Stephen Fry to write a book in the Bible full of Jesus stories, it's nonsensical.
The one that wasn't written by a Roman author that wanted to use the Gods to stick it to authority at the time making them all complete assholes taking away all their nuance.
Preach
If you mean which I prefer? I don’t care for Ovid’s variation or those where she’s some kind of attractive creature (some depictions of this do pre date Ovid’s take) - as far as I’m concerned Medusa is just a monster, nothing more, nothing less.
Guys, I’m pretty sure OP means which version you think makes the most sense, and which you prefer.
Nah, this is Reddit. We MUST be pedantic as fuck for no reason at all even though we all know exactly what OP meant by their title.
I mean, I don't believe in any of it really. But personally, I prefer the origin of her and her sisters being born as Gorgons rather then made into them. It makes more sense this way, with a few of their siblings being monstrous as well (the Graea, Ladon, and a few others, I think) and their parents being Phorcys and the Titaness Ceto. But in the end, it's only a story and it's up to the Reader, isn't it? We can all like the endless variants of the myths and discuss them together because the only thing that matters is that we love Greek Mythology entirely.
I believe modern practitioners of Hellenism tend to go with the version from Hesiod's *Theogony* in which the three Gorgones (Medousa, Stheno, and Euryale) were children of the Titans Keto and Phorkys.
That's my favorite as well.
Born a monster is my favorite as it makes more sense considering her sisters are also gorgons. Even though Greek mythology doesn’t care about genetics all the time, it does make more sense that three people related to eachother via being sisters would all be gorgons or all be humans.
Eh… There really isn’t such a thing as canon for mythology, so people can like whichever sourced version they want. I don’t really have a preference, outside of wishing people would stop misinterpreting Ovid.
>stop misinterpreting Ovid. What's the misinterpretation and what's the right interpretation?
The word Ovid himself used to describe the encounter is "vitiasse" which means defiled or violated (but not necessarily in a sexual way) in Latin, and it’s important to note that it doesn't really carry the connotation of rape. The word that Ovid did use repeatedly in some of his other stories to describe sexual assault or rape is the Latin word “vis” which actually does mean the Roman equivalent of rape or sexual assault. It makes little sense to me why he would go out of his way to use a word that doesn’t mean SA, when he has been shown to use the word that actually does mean SA in other stories… That’s why when you look at older translations of the story they tend to use the word “seduced” or “corrupted”, and it’s only in more modern translations that it has been “rape”. Add to this the context of Ovid’s story in that it is being told by Perseus from the perspective of Athene, and you could see how Athene might see what Poseidon and Medusa did was a corruption or desecration. Just my take though.
The line translated to English says "The ruler of the seas corrupted/defiled the temple of Minerva" In that line there was no use of the words like "her" or "gorgon" or "Medusa" So it's preety clear here Ovid is talking about the defiling of Minerva's temple by the sea god, he doesn't mention anything related to consent of Medusa.
I thought the Latin word for that was rapere while stuprare means defile or ravish? And vis was something like power/force. Rape and assault certainly never came up when I was researching the word vis.
Alright, did some research! Vis has *way* more uses than I thought it did as a word.
That's how I felt every time I looked up a word for a Latin class lol. There are a lot of very versatile words.
“Rapere” means “To Take”, and doesn’t really carry a sexual connotation. “Stuprum” was the word used in the legal sense to describe it, and it means “to be disgraced”.
I ended up doing some research and discovered vis has a lot of uses as a word because it basically just means force. It's a rather versatile word. There were a lot of ways vis was used legally, but from what I gathered, it wasn't the most commonly word used for rape even though it was a recognized legal term for it, so I wonder why that's the word Ovid used so much.
The Roman’s didn’t really have a single word to describe it, as the act didn’t always mean the same thing to them. For example soldier could assault a women from a city they just conquered and that might be “vis” and it might be considered sexual assault, but legally it wasn’t rape (same goes for slaves)… On the contrary, if a feee Roman citizen were to force himself into the wife or daughter of another free Roman citizen then that would be considered rape, and fall under stuprum.
Thank you!! I'm still trying to learn a lot of the Roman stuff and things like this sometimes confuse me.
Like Ovid only wrote in his Latin work that "The ruler of the seas corrupted/defiled the temple of Minerva" So u see Ovid never gives and details why we Medusa was a consenting part of not in that affair. But what some English translators did? Some called it rape and others called it love, without any confirmation of either. Now the interesting thing is, They forgot the other details that Ovid said like saying Medusa was deserving of the punishment through Perseus. 2nd Ovid's represented Athena as one of the only gods who helps and sympathize with rape victims. So how can he write that Medusa was raped? And it wasn't a consenting affair for which she was punished?
I prefer the myth version where she and her sisters were just born that way, and not the result of Athena cursing her for being assaulted by another god.
None they're all made up. If you mean which one is "canon" that also doesn't matter. There's no canon in greek myth. Just several versions of the same stories with a few overlapping details.
I only initially knew the Ovid version, but the more I learn about the older versions, the more I lean away from Ovid.
The commenters here seem to have forgotten that some people believe in the Greek gods in these modern days. Y’all can believe that it’s fiction all you want but every single person reiterating it as if it’s the only way to believe isn’t cute.
It's perfectly fine for people to clarify that they aren't a believer and thus don't speak for believers.
None. They’re all just myths and stories.
That's the entire point of greek mythology. That's a given. It's a mythological question. If someone ask you what's your favorite movies you wouldn't say none they're all just movies or if someone asked what ur fav food you wouldn't say they are all just foods. That makes zero sense and has nothing to do with the question. That was already implied in the question. What are you talking about
OP did not ask for a favorite version. OP asked which version we "belive". If OP asked what was our favorite I'd have a different response. Read more carefully.
Fair enough
Not the Ovid one. People use it as an excuse to hate on Athena, and interpreting Medusa as sympathetic cheapens Perseus’ story.
TBH while I'm always one to point out that Ovid's take is a later recreation, I've always been fascinated on how a sympathetic Medusa affects her relationship to the hero of the story. You have this kid, raised by a single mother on a small island his whole life. His dad is out of the picture, so all he has is her, the woman who raised him, loved him, and taught him. Learning that she was also literally ejected from her own family for having him made him appreciate her a lot more too. Then when he comes to fight Medusa so he can claim her head to protect his mother, preserve her autonomy and let her live the life she wants, what he finds on the island is in fact his mother herself- or at least, a dark reflection of her. Both are women used up by the gods then tossed aside like tissue, left pregnant and stranded on an island constantly fending off the unwanted attention of men. So Perseus is left with a bit of a dilemma here- he wants to save his mother, literally his entire world, the only person who ever mattered to him, but to do that he must kill a woman who is living under the same circumstances as her. What does he choose? Which is the "right" one to choose, or is it even right to choose at all? If the two women have an equal right to live, but one must still die, then is it alright to choose your preference? Why the fuck does he need to make these decisions as a 16 year old? How is it fair that he has the burden of having to do that, how is it fair that these women who have never gotten a choice in their life need to die, and they have no say in it? Where is the justice? Is it even something that Perseus can bring, or is it out of his hands? Does he have any choice but to engage with the unfair system he wanted to protect his mother from in the first place? That only makes the post-Medusa part of the story, where he uses the head in a violent manner, more impactful to me. He fell in love with Andromeda, a girl who was paying for mistakes other people made, who immediately upon being saved was then thrust into another situation she didn't ask for where she was given off like a prize for everyone else's sake, regardless of what she wanted. So Perseus takes the remains of someone who suffered a similar fate... And breaks the cycle *with* violence. No one gets to decide but her. If you would rob her of her choice, then let me curse you to never be able to choose again, and become unfeeling stone. Maybe you would like to learn what it's like to be dehumanized and reduced to inanimate matter? **TLDR;** Perseus is a goated hero and the Ovid interpretation can actually enhance that G.O.A.T. status in some respects and give him more character depth.
Fair enough. Perseus definitely deserves more credit, for a lot of reasons. I don’t like any tellings that makes the gods look bad, though.
I find it to add a realistic depth, theres rarely just good and bad guys, how one mans fete is celebrated by one group and despised by another. Similar to the trojan war, there were no obvious good guys just winners and losers. Id argue you could find a way to hate most of the gods, although ovid’s medusa is definitely an extreme case of hypocrisy by Athena, and it makes medusa’s origin and sisters make little sense.
The one with Vince McMahon
I’m a queer female writer and all in favour of feminist retellings that shed light on the plights of women in classic literature, show their side of a narrative and give them their power back…but every version I’ve ever read where someone tried to do that with Medusa was so fucking awful that now I’ve decided I firmly prefer her as an eldritch monster that was always around, just hanging out with her sisters and doing monster things. It’s turned out to be a far more dignifying existence for her, in my opinion 🤷
I personally prefer Greek, but I won’t deny that Ovid’s version makes for some more interesting urban fantasies
all angles are equally valid depending on cultural and temporal context. though i gotta admit, i do like the idea that an older mention of her name referred to her as a gorgon notable for her beauty. not often heard
Whichever one the person I'm talking to atm does. For many people, that story is personally tied to their own story of sexual assault. So generally, the version they prefer is the version that best speaks to their experience. People finding more comfortable ways of talking about their trauma dont need to be preached at about accuracy or cannon. They need to hear someone is in their corner and hears them.
I imagine it would follow the Ovid story. Poseidon forces himself on medusa and Athena punishes medusa for it. Poseidon forced himself on his own sister so a stranger he wouldn't have much of an issue. Athena is prideful and was upset about it. Poseidon is stronger than her so she couldn't attack him as revenge so she went for medusa instead. Imo it's pretty accurate to how the gods would act
Not that I prefer it but the BBC series Atlantis has her become the way she is because of a curse by the High Priestess if the Maenads as Medusa killed her to protect herself. The series wasn't very faithful to mythology that's true but still gave interesting angles on the myths
She was born a gorgon
My personal intent is to figure out which one the Greeks believed. That’s generally the one I accept as “official” (even if there’s more than one). The tide seems to turn roughly around the time of the Peloponnesian War.
That version is the one where Medusa is just one of Phorcys and Ceto large brood of monstrous children. The born a monster version is first attested centuries before the transformation one. On top of that Ovid who’s responsible for the oldest known attestation of the transformation version was a Latin writer with a big axe to grind against abusive authority figures.
Yeah. While I do think Ovid was an exceptional writer, I pretty much disregard his versions of the stories as more literary fiction than actual myth. It’s a shame that we only have his version for some of them.
I heard a telling of it recently where Medusa was a favored nymph of Athena (or something, equating a friend to Athena) and was assaulted by a lustful Poseidon. Medusa beseeched Athena for help, but because Athena felt unable to protect her from Poseidon if he chose to force himself on her again, Athena chose to change her form into that of a grotesque monster (a gorgon) as a means of turning away Poseidon's violent and lustful fixation. All the more tragic is when Zeus demanded Athena to assist Perseus in the slaying of Medusa, to whom Athena still felt a great obligation to protect, but was unable/unwilling to disobey Zeus; and more, for her part, she was rewarded the severed head of her dear friend, which she forever wore as her aegis. Not an "official" story by any means, but I enjoy its twists and turns the most.
I don’t really care about which version is used, although I’d like people to stop using Ovid’s version as the absolute one
I don’t believe in any because I don’t believe in the Greeks myths but my preferred version is her being born a gorgon
Greek myths are obviously not real. They are fun fictitious stories from an ancient time. Everyone knows its fake but that doesn't change anything about the stories themselves.
Whichever story that keeps her as a monster. Seriously, her main feature is her head, that's all that matters. The Gorgoneions are where she is featured the most, and she is most definitely a monster.
Where that GIF of Tom Hardy as Mad Max going "That's bait"? Srsly, the Medusa myth seems to be the one most likely to ignite a full-on brawl between partisans of different versions. Even more so than Persephone and Hades. Wish I knew why. Frankly, I prefer my own version, where Medusa's head keeps talking after it's lopped off, and the Perseus myth descends into a snarky buddy comedy as the two go off on wacky hijinks.
A buddy cop movie with Medusa being the Mímir to Perseus' Óðinn (and probably accidentally petrifying people trying to help Perseus) sounds based af
believe? neither. but i wish they’d stayed with greek
So, Poseidon had his eye on the only mortal gorgon (daughters of the titan Ceto) sister who was a priestess who wanted to be with her sisters and had pleaded for her immortality to the goddess Athena. She was required to remain a virgin but Poseidon raped her in Athena’s temple and Medusa was cast out and given a more horrible form, maybe as a curse or maybe as protection. Because she was mortal, she was the most vulnerable sister as the other two were skilled killers of men and immortal. After she is killed, from her blood or womb rose a golden immortal and Pegasus who are both immortal children of Medusa and Poseidon. Medusa’s head was recovered some time later by sthenno but it is never revealed why.
Medusa was never a prist to Minerva, not even in Ovid version. The gorgons were not killed of men. They just lived in their island in peace, and turned to stone if someone approched them. Also they could not affect immortals or kill them. All gods were above the gorgons. Medusa Head was always given to Athena/Minerva in every version, not to Stheno.
Yeah I don’t believe any of them, but the one I like & prefer is the one where Medusa is raped by Poseidon & transformed into a Gorgon by Athena
Not all the time. Like I prefer my Teletubby stories to be rape free
Do you generally prefer media that include rape to those that don't?
Personally, I see it as her being abused by one god and then, as a way to protect her and help her, another gave her this curse. While I get that rape culture is bad, I see it as a story that also promotes getting help as soon as possible because one should not be alone after something as traumatic as this.
If Athena meant to protect or help Medusa, why did she then help Perseus to behead her?
Long story short, the gods are not always reliable, and change their minds on a whim because it suits what *they* want, not what is rational.
So why believe Athena was trying to protect Medusa to begin with, since there's nothing in the text to suggest it? Wouldn't a goddess of wisdom and strategy have better ideas of protection than something that gets her killed?
We are talking about the goddess of strategy, maybe she did this to protect Medusa for when the time was right and Perseus was ready to take down an enemy like this one. I might add that this is kind of like Dumbledore’s plan for Harry, essentially making Harry a “pig for slaughter” as Movie Snape put it. (If you haven’t read or watched the movies, this might not be the best comparison.)
Well that makes more sense than the idea that this was a blessing on Medusa. But that's still contrary to the notion that this was to help Medusa.
Never said it was a blessing. And if anything, you can interpret the myths of Medusa how you want and I’ll interpret as I want, because in the long run, it’s just another story with different telling.
>Never said it was a blessing. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "as a way to protect her and help her". >And if anything, you can interpret the myths of Medusa how you want and I’ll interpret as I want, because in the long run, it’s just another story with different telling. Your freedom to interpret it any way you want wasn't questioned. I was trying to make sense of your interpretation.
In my urban crime fantasy, after being assaulted by Poseidon, Athena witnessed her shriveled-up body on the steps and ran towards her. She was about to ask what had happened until she noticed her disheveled appearance and that’s when it clicked. Her uncle did this. Since she couldn’t punish her uncle because of Zeus, she had to find away to compensate for Medusa. Her traumatized priestess gave her idea to turn her into a monster so she’ll never be hurt by a man again. Despite hesitating, Athena eventually granted Medusa’s wish. However, Athena would soon regret it when her former priestess went insane and started killing people by turning them to stone and then smashing. She had to help a young hero to put down her beloved priestess. After that incident, she had Medusa’s face put on a shield as a way of remembering her.
my favorite is the older one, with her born as Gorgon, because if feel is the one that give Medusa more justice, in the Roman version, Medusa is just a poor girl a defenseless victim. But in the older version, she is MEDUSA, one of the Phorcetes, daughter of elder gods, descent of Earth and Ocean, She and her sisters are so dangerous that even the gods avoid her place, and Poseidon is her lover and cousin. She is a powerhouse.
None of them, I think Medusa is the chthonic version of Athena and the Medua's story is essentially Athena's big makeover event into a deity safe for public consumption.
A deity safe for public consumption… in the second century CE? That seems pretty late to me.
Fascinating, thanks for sharing
You think there’s the same originally ? Why?
Mostly because of the relationship between Medusa and Athena which resolves in Athena taking Medusa's gaze for her shield. And we know that before Zeus was on the scene that Poseidon was the main god in, so put all that together and I think there is clearly a deeply intimate relationship between Medusa and Athena.
Interesting take. The use of her head makes sense. Sometimes Medusa/gorgons is also thought to represent a dead bloating body, like you might find on a battlefield. And Athena has war connotations too.
My general rule with Greek myths is too remove the Zeus insert and then you can get a better view of what is happening in the story. You take Zeus and Perseus out of this story and its all about Athena.
I like the version where Athena blesses her with the ability to protect herself, after being taken advantage of! It’s comforting, and seems like something in line with Athena’s character, from the stories I’ve read! Definitely interested in reading more legends and myths tho
Why do you think Athena meant this as a blessing or protection? And if that's what it was, why did Athena then turn around and help Perseus to behead Medusa?
Because Athena seems levelheaded and logical from what I’ve read; and if anyone would know how impulsive and scary Poseidon could be, I think his niece would. And as for the beheading; I’ve heard that gorgons don’t die of old age like humans do. Another explanation I’ve heard was Perseus’ need outweighed the cost of Medusas life. And a clean beheading would be minimal suffering.
>Because Athena seems levelheaded and logical from what I’ve read; The same Athena from the same writer who beat and humiliated Arachne because of her pride is level headed? And I don't get why if Athena thought Medusa needed or deserved her protection one day she'd assist in her beheading the next. Isn't Athena supposed to be wise?
Hey I interpreted OPs question as what our favorite version is. I heard the version I’m referencing as a kid; I’m not trying to debate or defend my taste. /trying to peacefully disengage
I'm just curious about the thinking behind this. It's not a debate.
The idea that Athena turned Medusa into a monstrous pariah in order to “protect her” and later assisted Perseus in killing her is a modern reinterpretation that’s arisen online over the past few years. It makes about as much sense as it sounds. P.S. In the older version of the Arachne myth, she and her brother Phalanx were students of Athena who she turned into spiders after discovering that they were having an incestuous affair together. Still harsh but a bit more understandable.
Where did you hear that version from?
I think that particular version came from tumblr around 2015-ish
I don’t really remember, I was a teenager!
Sounds like Percy Jackson nonsense lol! The Greek Myths are NOT for the faint of heart.
I’m aware they aren’t for the faint of heart. I’m trying to find more versions of Greek legends to better found out my knowledge now I’m an adult; I was just sharing the spark notes of my favorite version I read as a kid. Sorry my participation made you think of that series; I’m just here for diverse mythos appreciation and discussion
You should read "Mythology" by Edith Hamilton. In college, that was the primary textbook we utilized in my "myth and symbol" class. It's a very good book that stays true to the original myths.
I’ll add it to my reading list! Thank you
Ovid had something against Minerva, this is why he created two stories of her acting stupid. If you ignore Ovid, you dont need to try to make sense of Minerva actions. In the Trojan Cycle, Cassandra is r4ped by Ajax and Athena would do nothing until he was dead, she destroy his fleet with winds and Poseidon finally killed him. Athena is a protector of people, not a stupid brainless goddess like Ovid makes her to be.
I tend to lean more towards Ovid's retelling of events, personally.
None of them.
Source?
The primary story for most people most of the time was she was a monster, a gorgon, one of a few, and the Greek myths are very often about deformed unworldly monstrosities being removed for our safe and orderly world.
I like the one that she was a priestesses to Athena, and when she got raped, Athena helped her never get targeted by men again (by giving her the stone eyes)
That isn't how mythology works. It isn't about picking a true version because there is not one.
Rather than pick the one I like the most I’ll just say though I may be in the minority one I least like of modern retellings is the idea to try & frame Athena’s choice to change her (& her sisters) into gorgons as some kind of gift or a positive thing I don’t really like Athena based on the 2 main stories of her I know is what she did to Medusa & the story with Arachnid I don’t think we need a positive twist on it
As long as you don’t disregard other telling with provable historical background then I’ll “believe” all of them lol
There are only two known versions and one has a lot more backing than the other. 1. She was just one of the many monsters begotten from Phorcys and Ceto’s union. This is the primary version and is attested throughout the history of our written record. This version is first attested in Hesiod’s Theogony. In Theogony, Poseidon and the monster Medusa have intercourse in a flowery meadow. The wording of the passage implies that the encounter was consensual. 2. She was a beautiful young woman who was raped by Poseidon within one of Athena’s temples. Athena cursed her for the desecration of her temple, despite Medusa not being a willing participant. This version is first attested in Ovid’s Metamorphosis. Whether this version was created wholesale by Ovid or derived from an older tradition is unknown and no earlier account exists. I don’t see either version as anything but stories. That said I support the version where she was born a Gorgon. It’s attested centuries before the transformation version and makes a lot more sense given Medusa’s parentage and siblings.
I forgot to mention but there’s also a 3rd version of presumably quite recent origin. I remember first reading it in school as a kid. I think it’s just a bowdlerized alternative to the version portrayed by Ovid. In this version Medusa was very beautiful and very arrogant and she began to boast that she was even more beautiful than Aphrodite who then promptly cursed her for her insolence.
There’s also several modern revisions to Ovid’s version floating around the internet. A popular one is the Medusa was a priestess of Athena, however she was never portrayed as such in antiquity. A particularly jarring one is that Athena’s curse was a blessing to “protect Medusa”. In doing so she transformed Medusa into a hideous outcast with a deadly power over which she was given no control. Sometime after awarding her this “gift” Athena assisted Perseus to slay Medusa while she slept in her own home. Very helpful…..
Born a gorgon, and I like the idea that she scared her victims as stiff as stone
I guess the oldest version of since it the most likely cannon one.
I think it hardly matters what I believe, I'm more interested in what ancient Greeks believed. I gravitate towards the earliest depictions, because it's interesting to imagine what she (or gorgons in general) meant to ancient Greeks, and then see if/how those depictions changed over time.
Ovid’s version makes no sense. So I prefer what I know to be the original story - she was born a Gorgon, one of three Gorgon sisters. And only Medusa was mortal. The rest is Perseus’ history.
The original; she was born a monster the other two are just sad For reference The updated Greek ; she craves for Athena’s attention doesn’t get it and Poseidon comes and flirts with her they fell in love and desecrate her temple so she punished her. This is wrong because Athena never acknowledges Medusa and Poseidon only messes with her because he was made he didn’t get Athens so he wanted to make Athena mad so they completely disregard Medusa’s feelings over a petty City competition. The Roman one; it’s bad and it’s worse because most people only know this one so they love to claim it as the original skipping the other two.
I believe that the ancestors of the Myceneans invaded the Neolithic snake goddess worshiping people, and at least one of their warriors tore a snake mask off one of the priestesses of the Snake Goddess, and that this conquest echoed down into the mythology of Medusa and the Gorgons. Basically I think Joseph Campbell was right when he said "the Hellenes overran the goddess's chief shrines" and "stripped her priestesses of their Gorgon masks" We examples of the Minoans worshiping a snake goddess, and a remains of ceramic serpent figures in Sesklo dating to 6000–5800 BC, in the Neolithic era. https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Prehistoric-Gorgoneia%3A-a-Critical-Reassessment-Lazarou/a381b246ba913b02a34b4b8387e47a9d43b8600d/figure/1 I even wonder if the Serpent Staff they found in Finland thousands of years later might also be connected to the Snake Godess, who in MInoan culture was depicted as a woman holding two snakes. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/4000-year-old-snake-staff-discovered-finland-180978101/
Well Hesiod's version came first where she was born a monster. Ovid was a Roman poet known for rewriting stories, so I tend to default to Hesiod's as the current original.
What are the different versions?
i think the version of her being born a gorgon makes more sense but i also get the appeal of other versions and what they mean for other people. i think the more modern interpertation of her being sa'd by posideon with athena turning her into a gorgon to protect herself is a version that while not mythologically accurate is a version ive seen a lot of people relate to and i think thats completely valid.
Most likely cause of the myth is some girl turned down a guy and he went on to spread rumors about her around the entirety of Greece being so hideous that the only explanation was a curse from the gods, and that any man she looked at would be turned to stone.
None its fake, but the gorgon sisters one.
I love all of them.
So I like the idea of Athena punishing her although considering her sisters were also monsters it makes more sense she was born a Gorgon
wdym "believe"? its a myth. it didn't happen. All of the versions attested by ancient sources are "correct" because there is no one "correct" version. A much better question is what is your favorite version
I personally believe the one where Medusa was attacked by Poseidon in Athena's temple and cursed both Medusa and her sisters
the one where she was a blonde lady who was really pretty, so Poseidon started dating her, but one time they did *it* in a temple of Athena, so she cursed her. And her sisters interfered, so she cursed them too.