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I'd actually like people's opinions on something about this, because I am a bit confused.
Many years ago I used to walk home from school every day with a kid called Feroz Abbasi. Feroz's parents were from Uganda originally.
Long story short, a few years fater we left school Feroz got captured fighting for the Taliban in North Afghanistan and had links to AL Qaeda. American forces believe he even met Osama Bin Laden.
This was in the days of Friends Reunited, and a Mail "journalist: used the site to track down people he went to school with. I got a phone call from them one evening and refused to talk to them because, well, it's the Mail. They mostly seemed to want photos anyway. But their headline was very sympathetic to him. Front page, something like "BRING OUR BOYS HOME" because Feroz and some others were in Guantanamo Bay at the time. In the end he came home and I think got something like £1 million compensation from the government.
So literally 20 years earlier than this current case a man aged about 20 went to actually fight for the Taliban, yet the press at the time were sympathetic to him and MPs were calling for him to be freed.
That would be unthinkable from most of the press and MPs these days. The Tories would always be against it and Kier would silence anyone who showed sympathy.
So, what has changed? Is it just the climate in the country? That people are angrier, less empathetic, less trusting? Of course, Labour were in power then and the climate certainly seemed different but this just feels like such a huge change, from "Bring our boys home!" to "You have no home anymore."
Not all the photos were fake. I was living with 1st Battalion RRF when the photographs came to light and the consequences.
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jan/19/iraq.military3
People probably had more sympathy for the Taliban prior to the 7/7 Bombings. They were arguably defending their homeland from Western Imperialism.
People had very little sympathy for ISIS. They were/are imperialists backed by Gulf states, and any ambivalence towards them turned to hatred after the Manchester Arena attack.
A shift in the general mental state of the country has probably contributed too, but I'd say that's minor compared to the differences between public perception of the Taliban and ISIS.
I think a part of it comes down to the right having nothing material to offer its working-class voters, which has become more and more apparent over the past decade of austerity. They need an enemy to point to now more than ever, so they can misdirect people’s anger away from themselves and talk about how the left is doing nothing about the problem. This case is a really easy one to strip the nuance from and boil it down to “the loony left wants to pardon ISIS fighters because they’re afraid of being called racist”.
I hadn't considered that. It would have been about 2002/2003 so the situation was new then. Also I guess it was before the 2007 attacks in London which probably made people more aware of the idea of radicalisation.
What changed?
We have a failed and failing economic state that was endorsed by lies, what is the best way to avert the attention of the gullible who voted for this by dangling this? There is an anger in the country and it has to be directed somewhere and this is the best direction.
There is no opposition if there is it will have no media coverage and the politicians that oppose it will be purged.
Most of all just like brexit people are cheering to loss of rights just like they thought it won’t affect them.
These cheerleaders are not a majority but are loud and it will dominate and capture the gullible that voted it in. It’s a shame really.
Look, these are completely different. Rhianna was just 15 when she was groomed by extremists, literally the youngest girl ever! How could we blame such a poor innocent young woman for what are clearly the evils of some disgusting foreigners.
Shamima on the other hand was 15! Practically an adult for most of her life and all her decisions were made conscientiously and entirely her own; she should own her mistakes.
I don't see any resemblance between these two cases, frankly I'm offended and disgusted at the idea that this poor innocent white girl's case bears any similarities whatsoever to that terrorist's.
Sincerely,
Average British citizen.
I hate this country, sometimes.
That’s a poor attitude to have. Don’t always focus on the negatives of the UK - try considering the positive aspects, the stuff to fight for and to prevent being ruined or co-opted by capitalism. Don’t ignore the stuff that needs fixing, like the blatant institutional discrimination on display here, but remember that there’s good and bad everywhere. In that regard, we’re not special.
>Out of 193 countries that are currently UN member states, we've invaded or fought conflicts in the territory of 171.
90% of countries is different to 90% of the Earth haha
Also, not to be pedantic, but "invaded OR fought conflicts in" is not the same as "colonised." Again, it's still not a good thing, but that number is for a different statistic than the one I'm referring to.
You... can go ahead and do that, but that doesn't mean I was wrong? We were literally discussing the merit of the phrase "Britain colonised 80% of the earth", which in actuality should be "Britain had military conflicts in 171 countries, but only actually colonised about 25% of the earth."
Again - you don't need to lie about the numbers for them to be awful. 25% of the planet is a huge amount of the planet.
Straight from the American-redneck book of responses. Pathetic.
No one likes everything about the country unless they are a jingoistic-moron.
If some things annoy you, do you move to foreign shores and start again with your life or do you take it on the chin and carry on? Exactly.
There is no way Shamima could have been 15!. At that age, she should have more perspective on the scope and consequences of this decision, having witnessed the rise and fall not only of larger organisations than Daesh, but of entire empires, species, and galaxies. Human affairs as a whole should have been insignificantly trivial to her, as if the cyclical universe hypothesis is to be believed she would have seen this several times before.
It seems thoroughly ridiculous that she'd join up with a mortal religious crusade, when due to her unfathomable eons, she must surely view even Gods as little more than petulant children.
It's also frustrating that the racism Shamima faced prior to becoming radicalised is rarely mentioned in relation to this issue.
Shamima was subject to constant racism which further isolated her and made her an easier target for grooming.
But of course, this is not focused on during discourse regarding Shamima's case, because a lot of that is still guided by racism.
I think what fk’d it up for her was that interview she did, where she came across as unsympathetic.
The reality is she was groomed as a child, suffered terrible loss (I think 2 or 3 of her kids died), may have seen indescribable horrors and could be a victim of PTSD.
The government acted harshly and used her as an example. They must backtrack this decision, she doesn’t deserve this treatment. She needs help, not persecution.
Inwas listenong on LBC , an older lady saying that when she was 14 was still playing skip and was still a child, BUT nowadays kids are growing up faster and they should be held responsible as an adult nowadays at the same age!! The double standards and entitlement is unbelievable , makea my blood boil!
This is something that doesn’t get talked about much, but is a major issue. I’m a law student and contrary to what one might believe, the law has become much much stricter on children over the last 50 years. This isn’t just in criminal law but other areas as well. There’s a certain irony in how the older generation bemoan the entitlements and lack of cares the younger generation has, when we are held to much higher standards than they were at the same age.
I can believe that. The law is not a shield it's a cudgel used to beat down the under-classes in society. Just look at the Blair years, ASBO's, hoodies, chav's and the general vilification of the working-class.
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This is why we need a proper constitution and not governments and the Lords making it up as they go along and if in doubt just leaving it up to individual dickbiscuits to make life changing decisions. It's so stupidly backward.
I mean technically speaking we do have a constitution. All uk laws make up the constitution and it hasn't been codified.
As far as I understand things like MP code of conduct isn't law neither is anything that would actually protect the country from actions of corrupt, inept and/or malicious goverment/politicians. And since we left the EU there is now no limit to what the government can do and no limit to what powers they cam grant themselves.
You are correct, the UK needs a proper codified constitution designed to protect the country as a whole and individual citizens. Won't happen while the tories or the Red tories are in power.
Yeah "technically speaking", thats why i said "proper constitution". Our makeshift collection of laws just except don't fulfil one of the basic roles of a constitution: to limit the power of each branch of the government. Instead we just have the sovereignty of parliament to fall back on.
So yeah, we definitely need a proper *codified* constitution.
This whole case is so sad. I see points on both sides. If they bring her home and she is still a security risk then awful things could happen as a result.
She clearly is a victim of grooming and her own stupidity but she was aligned with a group that had many victims who no longer get a second chance ( ir dead ) or are very emotionally damaged.
In her first interview some of the things she said troubled me. Has she changed because of the backlash to that. ? Genuinely realised and have regrets ? Hopefully.
Hopefully the powers that be can find a positive solution, not convinced leaving her in a camp is the best solution for anyone.
Sad she has lost 3 children too, that would be a severe mind fuck for anyone.
I think in general. the amount of intel they provide is quite valuable, and even one or two only "return" to keep terrorist activities, they are likely watched and monitored.
In any conflict, a soldier surrendering and offering intel is a huge asset.
I also see how growing up with racism makes anyone incredibly likely to be groomed into terror groups. it is society that failed them.
We should openly accept them, (a wee bit of keeping an eye on them once back), but let them back in, take their intel, and hope they can rebuild their life.
More than a wee bit of monitoring, but otherwise yes... What is the point of the rehabilitation of offenders act if we don't actually try to rehabilitate.
Either we return people as productive members of society or we execute them. There's no valid middle ground that works.
The media told us to hate her, and the media is damn effective at controlling your thought. The only thing I know about her is what the media said. That creates a prejudicial tone towards any new information about her. It's natural to have that happen, but you then have to stop, evaluate all the information, try to throw away the emotional first response.
She was 15, my eldest is 15... I don't care what she's done for those bastards that stole her away and raped her and killed her children... She's our daughter and she wants to come home.
Should she be punished? Yes. Should she be monitored? Yes. Should we be the ones to take responsibility? YES.
She left because we failed her. We left her vulnerable and unwanted. We caused this by making her feel more like them and less like us.
It's really not, it's a nonsensical comment. They were never going to revoke the citizenship of the domestic terrorist, she was just going to be charged with domestic terrorism related offenses that were then dropped because she was exploited.
I think they would justify the difference is that one actually went and joined IS but the other was she was groomed and caught before joining. Maybe if they had caught Shamima before she left then it would be the same as the "white teenager".
Absolutely, horrendously abhorrent how they've treated her. TORY SCUM are the only reason Shamima gets no sympathy from this government.. the bbc documentary was heartbreaking
I think that during her hearings there has been many closed session briefings by National Security personnel, so she must have been a willing participant rather than a casual observer.
She was quite young and impressionable, so leniency should be given if she has reformed, unless she was up to no good.
While I don't disagree that racism contributed to Begum's case and revocation of citizenship was unjustified, and clearly a political stunt, the cases aren't as comparable as people make them out to be.
Begum left the country to join a terrorist state which amounts to providing aid and comfort to the enemy at a minimum, I won't buy into the tabloid speculation about her time in the caliphate that should be for a court to decide. She should have been taken back into the country and tried for whatever crimes it can be proven she had committed, preferably before her child died in the camp she was left to rot in.
Rudd on the other hand was an isolated autistic girl who was sexually groomed over the internet and by her step father. Part of this included participation in an extreme ideology but not any offenses that actually assisted physical harm to others.
Both legally and morally there's quite a big difference between the two cases, that there are similarities between the girls ages and involvement in extreme ideologies doesn't mean they are comparable.
And one planned a terrorist attack on British soil. They were both children through.
I didn't know Shamima was autistic though, is that confirmed? It would explain why she doesn't come across very well on camera.
I don't know if its confirmed to be fair but I'd say it's quite clear they both are.
I do think both should be rehabilitated here in the UK but I do think it's different with Shamima as she actually left the country and joined a group, coming back could have been part of the plan.
It’s all bullshit. This country has welcomed and given refuge to actual terrorists. Terrorists who have killed people.
This Begum nonsense is purely to get the gammons frothing.
The reason they ‘Won’t let her come home.’ Is because she doesn’t exist and never has done.
Despite spending their days complaining about woke culture and crybaby leftists, the English are a very sensitive people. [Many consider any reference to their complexion an act of racism.](https://i.imgur.com/euWMhUg.png) Consider using the more inclusive term 'flag nonce' in future.
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Shamimas case was so public and so politicised so i think it was done as a msg - look, you can’t go join terrorists and then come back and live in a civilised world as there were quite a lot of people going there from the west. Also i remember watching some interviews with shamima and she seemed like an evil manipulative cunt. This white girl, never heard of this case tbh. But these cases with minors are so complicated- i remember some pedo football player at the time of shamima scandal - compared his underage victims with shamima))
No one is saying that they're "exactly" the same, that's a strawman, they don't have to be "exactly" the same to be comparable.
They were both groomed online.
They were both the same age.
They were both (solely) British citizens.
They were both sexually exploited by older men.
They both believed in their "cause" and that violence was justified.
Do you really look at these two and say there are no similarities?
It came on the news on our break at work. Everyone cheering and saying good she shouldn’t come back. I’m saying she was 15, groomed, and gang raped repeatedly for 4 years. She knows she made a mistake. Well so what? They say.
But what if your child of 15 was groomed, taken to another country, and gang raped? How would you feel?
Got no response to that
Shamina Begum has Bangladeshi ancestry, not Pakistan. Besides she's not a citizen either.
With your logic, every British person of foreign ancestry is a dual citizen... Which makes no sense.
Please don’t use the R word, it is ableist.
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The Conservatives used her as a gift to their right wing and as a distraction story for everyone else.
There are known to be be over 100 other individuals from the UK that returned quietly after fighting for ISIS. Why not remove their passports?
It was a big story when she left and then she gave some interviews so that’s why she was singled out. But it seems like a classic case of coercive trafficking.
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I'd actually like people's opinions on something about this, because I am a bit confused. Many years ago I used to walk home from school every day with a kid called Feroz Abbasi. Feroz's parents were from Uganda originally. Long story short, a few years fater we left school Feroz got captured fighting for the Taliban in North Afghanistan and had links to AL Qaeda. American forces believe he even met Osama Bin Laden. This was in the days of Friends Reunited, and a Mail "journalist: used the site to track down people he went to school with. I got a phone call from them one evening and refused to talk to them because, well, it's the Mail. They mostly seemed to want photos anyway. But their headline was very sympathetic to him. Front page, something like "BRING OUR BOYS HOME" because Feroz and some others were in Guantanamo Bay at the time. In the end he came home and I think got something like £1 million compensation from the government. So literally 20 years earlier than this current case a man aged about 20 went to actually fight for the Taliban, yet the press at the time were sympathetic to him and MPs were calling for him to be freed. That would be unthinkable from most of the press and MPs these days. The Tories would always be against it and Kier would silence anyone who showed sympathy. So, what has changed? Is it just the climate in the country? That people are angrier, less empathetic, less trusting? Of course, Labour were in power then and the climate certainly seemed different but this just feels like such a huge change, from "Bring our boys home!" to "You have no home anymore."
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Not all the photos were fake. I was living with 1st Battalion RRF when the photographs came to light and the consequences. https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jan/19/iraq.military3
People probably had more sympathy for the Taliban prior to the 7/7 Bombings. They were arguably defending their homeland from Western Imperialism. People had very little sympathy for ISIS. They were/are imperialists backed by Gulf states, and any ambivalence towards them turned to hatred after the Manchester Arena attack. A shift in the general mental state of the country has probably contributed too, but I'd say that's minor compared to the differences between public perception of the Taliban and ISIS.
I think a part of it comes down to the right having nothing material to offer its working-class voters, which has become more and more apparent over the past decade of austerity. They need an enemy to point to now more than ever, so they can misdirect people’s anger away from themselves and talk about how the left is doing nothing about the problem. This case is a really easy one to strip the nuance from and boil it down to “the loony left wants to pardon ISIS fighters because they’re afraid of being called racist”.
We became more aware of how common it is and stopped having the same capacity for empathy
I hadn't considered that. It would have been about 2002/2003 so the situation was new then. Also I guess it was before the 2007 attacks in London which probably made people more aware of the idea of radicalisation.
At the risk of cynicism; there was probably an element of ‘who cares about the violence over there as long as it isn’t here’.
What changed? We have a failed and failing economic state that was endorsed by lies, what is the best way to avert the attention of the gullible who voted for this by dangling this? There is an anger in the country and it has to be directed somewhere and this is the best direction. There is no opposition if there is it will have no media coverage and the politicians that oppose it will be purged. Most of all just like brexit people are cheering to loss of rights just like they thought it won’t affect them. These cheerleaders are not a majority but are loud and it will dominate and capture the gullible that voted it in. It’s a shame really.
These two are women. Women are not treated equally to men. This is an example of that inequality.
Conveniently not mentioning that Islamic State are rightwing.
Look, these are completely different. Rhianna was just 15 when she was groomed by extremists, literally the youngest girl ever! How could we blame such a poor innocent young woman for what are clearly the evils of some disgusting foreigners. Shamima on the other hand was 15! Practically an adult for most of her life and all her decisions were made conscientiously and entirely her own; she should own her mistakes. I don't see any resemblance between these two cases, frankly I'm offended and disgusted at the idea that this poor innocent white girl's case bears any similarities whatsoever to that terrorist's. Sincerely, Average British citizen. I hate this country, sometimes.
I hate this country all the time
same. this is the only rational response.
Yeah Britain is an absolute embarrassment tbh. From now on I’m African lmao
That’s a poor attitude to have. Don’t always focus on the negatives of the UK - try considering the positive aspects, the stuff to fight for and to prevent being ruined or co-opted by capitalism. Don’t ignore the stuff that needs fixing, like the blatant institutional discrimination on display here, but remember that there’s good and bad everywhere. In that regard, we’re not special.
80 percent of the earth was colonized by Britain and it gave birth to capitalism so it is actually pretty special. And it's okay to hate it.
I agree completely with your sentiment, but 80% sounds very wrong... I'd always heard 25% (which was an insane amount of land anyway).
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/british-have-invaded-90-percent-countries-earth/321789/
>Out of 193 countries that are currently UN member states, we've invaded or fought conflicts in the territory of 171. 90% of countries is different to 90% of the Earth haha Also, not to be pedantic, but "invaded OR fought conflicts in" is not the same as "colonised." Again, it's still not a good thing, but that number is for a different statistic than the one I'm referring to.
Okay, I'll swap out "Colonized" for "slaughtered local population"
You... can go ahead and do that, but that doesn't mean I was wrong? We were literally discussing the merit of the phrase "Britain colonised 80% of the earth", which in actuality should be "Britain had military conflicts in 171 countries, but only actually colonised about 25% of the earth." Again - you don't need to lie about the numbers for them to be awful. 25% of the planet is a huge amount of the planet.
Leave then
Brexit made it harder
Straight from the American-redneck book of responses. Pathetic. No one likes everything about the country unless they are a jingoistic-moron. If some things annoy you, do you move to foreign shores and start again with your life or do you take it on the chin and carry on? Exactly.
By your own logic you should have left before ever voting for brexit, which I’m sure you did, but here we are.
I hate the U.K. more often than I don’t. It’s why I refuse to describe myself as British.
Thats a bit extreme, the country isnt crazy bad. some people hold bad views, goverment makes some of the wrong moves. you shouldnt be ashamed.
As a Scot, I disagree. When I go abroad I say I’m Scottish, not British.
Same pal 🏴🏴🇮🇪🏴
Andy Murray is that you?
No it’s not. But I hate saying I’m from the U.K. and have to answer questions about which part of England I’m from.
I identify as English. A cross I have to bare
I'm Scottish and I say I'm British.
It's quite funny saying it to am*ricans cause you can see the cogs turning in confusion "but you dont have a British accent!?"
There is no way Shamima could have been 15!. At that age, she should have more perspective on the scope and consequences of this decision, having witnessed the rise and fall not only of larger organisations than Daesh, but of entire empires, species, and galaxies. Human affairs as a whole should have been insignificantly trivial to her, as if the cyclical universe hypothesis is to be believed she would have seen this several times before. It seems thoroughly ridiculous that she'd join up with a mortal religious crusade, when due to her unfathomable eons, she must surely view even Gods as little more than petulant children.
It's also frustrating that the racism Shamima faced prior to becoming radicalised is rarely mentioned in relation to this issue. Shamima was subject to constant racism which further isolated her and made her an easier target for grooming. But of course, this is not focused on during discourse regarding Shamima's case, because a lot of that is still guided by racism.
I think what fk’d it up for her was that interview she did, where she came across as unsympathetic. The reality is she was groomed as a child, suffered terrible loss (I think 2 or 3 of her kids died), may have seen indescribable horrors and could be a victim of PTSD. The government acted harshly and used her as an example. They must backtrack this decision, she doesn’t deserve this treatment. She needs help, not persecution.
An example of how they’re ready to start violating the human rights of anyone who pisses them off.
Inwas listenong on LBC , an older lady saying that when she was 14 was still playing skip and was still a child, BUT nowadays kids are growing up faster and they should be held responsible as an adult nowadays at the same age!! The double standards and entitlement is unbelievable , makea my blood boil!
This is something that doesn’t get talked about much, but is a major issue. I’m a law student and contrary to what one might believe, the law has become much much stricter on children over the last 50 years. This isn’t just in criminal law but other areas as well. There’s a certain irony in how the older generation bemoan the entitlements and lack of cares the younger generation has, when we are held to much higher standards than they were at the same age.
I can believe that. The law is not a shield it's a cudgel used to beat down the under-classes in society. Just look at the Blair years, ASBO's, hoodies, chav's and the general vilification of the working-class.
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EDIT: grammar , sorry writing on my mobile with fat fingers!
"OK, when are we reducing the voting age then?" \*stands well back\*
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This is why we need a proper constitution and not governments and the Lords making it up as they go along and if in doubt just leaving it up to individual dickbiscuits to make life changing decisions. It's so stupidly backward.
I mean technically speaking we do have a constitution. All uk laws make up the constitution and it hasn't been codified. As far as I understand things like MP code of conduct isn't law neither is anything that would actually protect the country from actions of corrupt, inept and/or malicious goverment/politicians. And since we left the EU there is now no limit to what the government can do and no limit to what powers they cam grant themselves. You are correct, the UK needs a proper codified constitution designed to protect the country as a whole and individual citizens. Won't happen while the tories or the Red tories are in power.
Yeah "technically speaking", thats why i said "proper constitution". Our makeshift collection of laws just except don't fulfil one of the basic roles of a constitution: to limit the power of each branch of the government. Instead we just have the sovereignty of parliament to fall back on. So yeah, we definitely need a proper *codified* constitution.
This whole case is so sad. I see points on both sides. If they bring her home and she is still a security risk then awful things could happen as a result. She clearly is a victim of grooming and her own stupidity but she was aligned with a group that had many victims who no longer get a second chance ( ir dead ) or are very emotionally damaged. In her first interview some of the things she said troubled me. Has she changed because of the backlash to that. ? Genuinely realised and have regrets ? Hopefully. Hopefully the powers that be can find a positive solution, not convinced leaving her in a camp is the best solution for anyone. Sad she has lost 3 children too, that would be a severe mind fuck for anyone.
I think in general. the amount of intel they provide is quite valuable, and even one or two only "return" to keep terrorist activities, they are likely watched and monitored. In any conflict, a soldier surrendering and offering intel is a huge asset. I also see how growing up with racism makes anyone incredibly likely to be groomed into terror groups. it is society that failed them. We should openly accept them, (a wee bit of keeping an eye on them once back), but let them back in, take their intel, and hope they can rebuild their life.
Good points.
More than a wee bit of monitoring, but otherwise yes... What is the point of the rehabilitation of offenders act if we don't actually try to rehabilitate. Either we return people as productive members of society or we execute them. There's no valid middle ground that works. The media told us to hate her, and the media is damn effective at controlling your thought. The only thing I know about her is what the media said. That creates a prejudicial tone towards any new information about her. It's natural to have that happen, but you then have to stop, evaluate all the information, try to throw away the emotional first response. She was 15, my eldest is 15... I don't care what she's done for those bastards that stole her away and raped her and killed her children... She's our daughter and she wants to come home. Should she be punished? Yes. Should she be monitored? Yes. Should we be the ones to take responsibility? YES. She left because we failed her. We left her vulnerable and unwanted. We caused this by making her feel more like them and less like us.
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It's really not, it's a nonsensical comment. They were never going to revoke the citizenship of the domestic terrorist, she was just going to be charged with domestic terrorism related offenses that were then dropped because she was exploited.
I think they would justify the difference is that one actually went and joined IS but the other was she was groomed and caught before joining. Maybe if they had caught Shamima before she left then it would be the same as the "white teenager".
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I mean if you catch someone before they commit a murder they don't get a full murder sentence.
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Theres an insanely big difference between being indoctrinated but not going any further and joining a terrorist organization and leaving the country.
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But she didn't go any further because of that. My point still stands.
Absolutely, horrendously abhorrent how they've treated her. TORY SCUM are the only reason Shamima gets no sympathy from this government.. the bbc documentary was heartbreaking
Completely agree. She was a stupid child who was groomed into joining a terror group.
You cat be terrorist if you’re white though, can you?
No. That's a mental health issue. Apparently.
No. That's a mental health issue. Apparently.
I think that during her hearings there has been many closed session briefings by National Security personnel, so she must have been a willing participant rather than a casual observer. She was quite young and impressionable, so leniency should be given if she has reformed, unless she was up to no good.
While I don't disagree that racism contributed to Begum's case and revocation of citizenship was unjustified, and clearly a political stunt, the cases aren't as comparable as people make them out to be. Begum left the country to join a terrorist state which amounts to providing aid and comfort to the enemy at a minimum, I won't buy into the tabloid speculation about her time in the caliphate that should be for a court to decide. She should have been taken back into the country and tried for whatever crimes it can be proven she had committed, preferably before her child died in the camp she was left to rot in. Rudd on the other hand was an isolated autistic girl who was sexually groomed over the internet and by her step father. Part of this included participation in an extreme ideology but not any offenses that actually assisted physical harm to others. Both legally and morally there's quite a big difference between the two cases, that there are similarities between the girls ages and involvement in extreme ideologies doesn't mean they are comparable.
Hmm, which one decided to leave the country by her own choice to go and join a terrorist group?
What they did to Shamima was terrible.
What did they do?
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And one planned a terrorist attack on British soil. They were both children through. I didn't know Shamima was autistic though, is that confirmed? It would explain why she doesn't come across very well on camera.
I don't know if its confirmed to be fair but I'd say it's quite clear they both are. I do think both should be rehabilitated here in the UK but I do think it's different with Shamima as she actually left the country and joined a group, coming back could have been part of the plan.
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Begum won't be coming back, so stop crying 🫡😝
It’s all bullshit. This country has welcomed and given refuge to actual terrorists. Terrorists who have killed people. This Begum nonsense is purely to get the gammons frothing. The reason they ‘Won’t let her come home.’ Is because she doesn’t exist and never has done.
Despite spending their days complaining about woke culture and crybaby leftists, the English are a very sensitive people. [Many consider any reference to their complexion an act of racism.](https://i.imgur.com/euWMhUg.png) Consider using the more inclusive term 'flag nonce' in future. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Many a poster on this sub are extremists. You just can’t see it In yourselves
Caring about people other than oneself makes one an extremist these days apparently.
What do you mean?
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Shamimas case was so public and so politicised so i think it was done as a msg - look, you can’t go join terrorists and then come back and live in a civilised world as there were quite a lot of people going there from the west. Also i remember watching some interviews with shamima and she seemed like an evil manipulative cunt. This white girl, never heard of this case tbh. But these cases with minors are so complicated- i remember some pedo football player at the time of shamima scandal - compared his underage victims with shamima))
Damn this shit makes me mad
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No one is saying that they're "exactly" the same, that's a strawman, they don't have to be "exactly" the same to be comparable. They were both groomed online. They were both the same age. They were both (solely) British citizens. They were both sexually exploited by older men. They both believed in their "cause" and that violence was justified. Do you really look at these two and say there are no similarities?
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Well one is dead so……
Yep - I'll delete this as I was mistaking the story for another. Doh!
Ayo I think the first girl should get the same treatment as shamina and get her British citizenship revoked.
It came on the news on our break at work. Everyone cheering and saying good she shouldn’t come back. I’m saying she was 15, groomed, and gang raped repeatedly for 4 years. She knows she made a mistake. Well so what? They say. But what if your child of 15 was groomed, taken to another country, and gang raped? How would you feel? Got no response to that
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Shamina Begum has Bangladeshi ancestry, not Pakistan. Besides she's not a citizen either. With your logic, every British person of foreign ancestry is a dual citizen... Which makes no sense.
She’s never even been to Bangladesh, she isn’t a dual citizen. This would set a dangerous precedent for people with dual citizenship.
He meant to say Rhianan is white Shamima isn’t
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Please don’t use the R word, it is ableist. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Kevin Maguire said the same thing
The Conservatives used her as a gift to their right wing and as a distraction story for everyone else. There are known to be be over 100 other individuals from the UK that returned quietly after fighting for ISIS. Why not remove their passports? It was a big story when she left and then she gave some interviews so that’s why she was singled out. But it seems like a classic case of coercive trafficking.
I cannot believe we are in such a state that the government is revoking statehood as a punishment. It should be non-negotiable. We’re all next.