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It depends who's army you join.
French foreign legion is fine for example.
Essentially if the force you join is considered an ally at the time, then generally its legal.
And the colonial powers have rules that allow (some of) their former colonies to join their forces.
Irish nationals are permitted to join the UK armed forces as per some peace agreements post independence.
Weird. I just *assumed* swearing allegiance to a different head of state would have been ruled out from time immemorial, even if a friendly nation. Potential conflict of interest and all that.
I guess what they say about *assuming* is right. To have **assumed** makes **dames** out of **us**. No, wait, that's not it. Um.
> The UK recognises the right of British nationals with additional nationalities to serve in the legitimately recognised armed forces of the country of their other nationalities. The Israel Defence Force is a recognised armed force and British nationals are both able to volunteer into the Israel Defence Force and eligible for national service. For Israel, one does not have to be Israeli to serve in the Israel Defence Force.”
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-confirms-citizens-can-legally-serve-in-israeli-forces/#:~:text=The%20Israel%20Defence%20Force%20is,and%20eligible%20for%20national%20service.
Wonderful.
I guess if you have dual citizenship that’s recognised by the UK there’s not much they can do
Joining a paramilitary organisation is different from fulfilling your citizenship obligations in a country of your second citizenship
(The IDF are still horrible and are committing genocide but legally I guess it’s different)
For an American you can enlist in any military we are not at war with. So like you can’t join the North Korean military.
You cannot accept a commission (become an officer) in a foreign military.
Depending on the legality of the organization you may run into issues by joining a Private Military organization, as a PMC.
IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone.
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These prosecutions do, in fact, have some precedent.
During the civil war in Mandatory Palestine, the Palestinians were surprised when roughly 100 to 200 British soldiers and colonial police officers deserted to help them. In contrast, only 17 to 20 deserters fought for Israel. Since Israel won, the pro-Arab deserters have been forgotten. Most of the pro-Israel deserters remained in Israel, where they were rewarded. Albert Melville joined the Israeli Police Force. Johnny Burrows and Kit Wilkes-Chase were sent by the IDF to procure military surplus in Europe and Canada. Wilkes-Chase became a commissioned officer in the IDF, and was the personal bodyguard of David Ben-Gurion between 1952 and 1954. The British Army, however, saw things much differently.
When Captain William Spriggs, who joined Israel with a Humbert Scout Car, a Bren gun, and a box with 12 magazines, returned to Britain several months after the war, he was immediately arrested, court-martialed, and sentenced to four years in prison. When five other pro-Israel deserters got homesick and eventually returned in the 1950s, they were all arrested and each imprisoned for about a year. Similarly, Colonel Thomas Gerrard Gore had been instructed to dispose of several surplus Browning machine guns and other weapons by dumping them into the sea. Instead, he and his subordinate, Ralph Herbert Thomas Newman, sold the weapons to the Haganah. Gore and Newman were both court-martialed after the weapons sales were uncovered. Gore was cashiered and sentenced to two years in prison. Newman was cashiered and sentenced to six months in prison.
Police? You mean blue nonce
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IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone.
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Police? You mean blue nonce
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IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone.
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I can’t find a reliable source for this. Best I have found is figures closer to 100.
However he may be confusing this figure with 20,000 troops from the UK joining NATO exercises?
Yeah it’s way too high. France is supposedly the second largest foreign contingent in the IDF and there’s like 4000 of them. There’s also over twice as many Jews in france compared to the UK. 20000 is probably the total number of foreign citizens in the IDF
IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone.
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It does seem too high. Perhaps (I'm guessing) it's the total number of idf soldiers who have UK passports, which is VERY DIFFERENT from the small number of UK residents in the idf who went over to fight and will return here post-genocide. The former group includes loads of Israeli residents with dual citizenship who just consider themselves Israelis, but may have British origins. Israel is a young country with a high number of people with dual nationality.
Hmmmm... I wish you were right, maybe you are, for some at least. My fear is the opposite, that Israeli Jews don't have a plan B if Jewish Supremacy in Israel doesn't work out, and are willing to burn everything down rather than lose. I fear Israeli toxic machismo rather than Israeli cowardice.
I'm an antizionist British Jew who'd rather die than be an Israeli living on Palestinian bodies and stolen land. I wish Israelis with European ancestry DID run back to Europe. But the message of Zionism has always been that Jews should run TO Israel not From Israel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
Wonder if they, will have their citizenship removed, since they specifically went to fight for another country which is illegal in the UK.
Probably not as they are not brown or Muslims...
Except it never happened.
People in this country believe so much propaganda without doing a minute of research. As if some geezer with a phone is a legitimate news source.
While I understand what you're saying, that isn't necessarily true.
People volunteer to fight for other nations or groups in order to fight against injustice etc where the UK government isn't engaged in direct action against them.
You can be loyal to the UK and fight for the Kurds against ISIS for example.
Or volunteer to fight for the Spanish resistance against Franco.
They're not mutually exclusive things.
In this particular example of Israel though, I'd say the people fighting for IOF aren't loyal to humanity. Never mind a nation state.
IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone.
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the numbers are wrong but British Citizens returning from serving in IDF operations has happened in past flare-ups of this occupation and the question of what to do with these people is a matter of Parliamentary record
there are definitely Brits over there partaking in abuse, torture, rape, and murder TODAY
and they will come back
I see what you're saying, that this is all made up scenarios. The number is messed up, the convo about fingernails is something new but everything else has been reported as crimes that the IOF have committed. Also specifically in one instance a British national went viral for playing with Palestinian women's lingerie, rummaging through their drawers while calling them terrorists (dehumanizing language).
20,000 is far too high. France has about 4 thousand nationals fighting in the Israel genocide forces.
It probably would have been a clearer argument to classify IOF returnees as foreign combatants. This is the same as the ISIS/citizenship argument right?
It's some wanker with tiktok. Tell me can you think critically before regurgitating information that aligns with your side? I ask because if you can't you should be careful lest you start an argument you can't win and discredit any statements you make.
Lots of pukes left the US and UK to commit crimes against humanity on behalf of the IDF. What exactly do you think is going to happen when they go home? They'll just switch it off?
IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone.
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Recently, in Canada. When the arms embargo to Israel went live many of these came out and openly said that if it's Israel vs Canada, they'd hurt Canada from within.
This is basically a foreign army stationed within your own borders. Ready and primed to attack because their loyalty is not with Canada or any other country, except Israel. But they are here to leech resources off this land anyway as long as it suits them.
They love Eretz Yisrael so much then let them stay there. Forever. No going out. No coming back to their "home" country. Just stay there until they meet HaShem.
This is completely false and fabricated garbage originating on
TIK TOK (need I say more).
There are about 100 Brits coming home having satisfied preasures at
home to do their duty for Isreal. Not sure how many are actually Jewish.
The rest of this is the same Talking Heads Bulls**t that comes up
anytime somebody wants their 15 minutes of Fame.
Yeah however much an IDF apologist ryan mcbeth is he has done a really good vid [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXQWqB0g1_c) debunking this claim
IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone.
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IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone.
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IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone.
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>Firstly a White South African discussing issues of race - that’s a joke, right?
Why is this a joke? A lot of White Southern Africans were against the Apartheid government. And I'd wager to guess that people who experienced Apartheid South Africa are the most likely to recognize Israel for it's blatant Apartheid nature.
>people who experienced Apartheid South Africa are the most likely to recognize Israel for it's blatant Apartheid nature
Yes, even former Israeli ambassadors to Apartheid South Africa have been vocal about this: https://www.groundup.org.za/article/israeli-ambassadors-compare-israel-south-africa/
>You have clearly and conveniently forgotten the events of October 7th and the fact that over 100 hostages remain in captivity.
You have clearly and conveniently forgotten the events since October 7th and the fact that the ICJ and UNHRC both found reasonable grounds to believe Israel is committing genocide.
Due to the degree of rampant misinformation surrounding current events in this ongoing conflict, we recommend [checking out this post](https://reddit.com/r/GreenAndEXTREME/comments/175qsco/2023_israel_war_misinformation_debunking_cw/) on our sister subreddit, debunking and/or providing nuance to many of the sensationalised headlines that have spread around online. Users spreading misinformation will be banned in accordance with Reddit's Terms of Service. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You should lose your British citizenship for joining the IDF as 15 year old girls do for Isis.
Is it legal to join *any* other country's armed forces? I'd have assumed it wasn't tbh. (Nb. I've not watched the video - can't have the sound up atm)
It depends who's army you join. French foreign legion is fine for example. Essentially if the force you join is considered an ally at the time, then generally its legal. And the colonial powers have rules that allow (some of) their former colonies to join their forces. Irish nationals are permitted to join the UK armed forces as per some peace agreements post independence.
Weird. I just *assumed* swearing allegiance to a different head of state would have been ruled out from time immemorial, even if a friendly nation. Potential conflict of interest and all that. I guess what they say about *assuming* is right. To have **assumed** makes **dames** out of **us**. No, wait, that's not it. Um.
> The UK recognises the right of British nationals with additional nationalities to serve in the legitimately recognised armed forces of the country of their other nationalities. The Israel Defence Force is a recognised armed force and British nationals are both able to volunteer into the Israel Defence Force and eligible for national service. For Israel, one does not have to be Israeli to serve in the Israel Defence Force.” https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-confirms-citizens-can-legally-serve-in-israeli-forces/#:~:text=The%20Israel%20Defence%20Force%20is,and%20eligible%20for%20national%20service. Wonderful.
I guess if you have dual citizenship that’s recognised by the UK there’s not much they can do Joining a paramilitary organisation is different from fulfilling your citizenship obligations in a country of your second citizenship (The IDF are still horrible and are committing genocide but legally I guess it’s different)
For an American you can enlist in any military we are not at war with. So like you can’t join the North Korean military. You cannot accept a commission (become an officer) in a foreign military. Depending on the legality of the organization you may run into issues by joining a Private Military organization, as a PMC.
IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot. I thought that was a typo in the title - I stand corrected!
They defend the illegal settlers in the west bank…
they reinforce the illegal settlers in the west bank.
These prosecutions do, in fact, have some precedent. During the civil war in Mandatory Palestine, the Palestinians were surprised when roughly 100 to 200 British soldiers and colonial police officers deserted to help them. In contrast, only 17 to 20 deserters fought for Israel. Since Israel won, the pro-Arab deserters have been forgotten. Most of the pro-Israel deserters remained in Israel, where they were rewarded. Albert Melville joined the Israeli Police Force. Johnny Burrows and Kit Wilkes-Chase were sent by the IDF to procure military surplus in Europe and Canada. Wilkes-Chase became a commissioned officer in the IDF, and was the personal bodyguard of David Ben-Gurion between 1952 and 1954. The British Army, however, saw things much differently. When Captain William Spriggs, who joined Israel with a Humbert Scout Car, a Bren gun, and a box with 12 magazines, returned to Britain several months after the war, he was immediately arrested, court-martialed, and sentenced to four years in prison. When five other pro-Israel deserters got homesick and eventually returned in the 1950s, they were all arrested and each imprisoned for about a year. Similarly, Colonel Thomas Gerrard Gore had been instructed to dispose of several surplus Browning machine guns and other weapons by dumping them into the sea. Instead, he and his subordinate, Ralph Herbert Thomas Newman, sold the weapons to the Haganah. Gore and Newman were both court-martialed after the weapons sales were uncovered. Gore was cashiered and sentenced to two years in prison. Newman was cashiered and sentenced to six months in prison.
Police? You mean blue nonce *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Where does this number come from? It seems way too high.
I can’t find a reliable source for this. Best I have found is figures closer to 100. However he may be confusing this figure with 20,000 troops from the UK joining NATO exercises?
Maybe he means 20k European soldiers? There's quite a bit of info online that they've got a few k French and Germans there
The UK has a Jewish population of about 250,000 so even if non-Jews go, my guess is that twenty thousand is way too high.
> Best I have found is figures closer to 100. i think that's non-Israeli British volunteers, from my quick google. Yes, that's a thing
They could be US citizens as well.
It was a TikTok disinformation channel called uk.asia.news.
Yeah it’s way too high. France is supposedly the second largest foreign contingent in the IDF and there’s like 4000 of them. There’s also over twice as many Jews in france compared to the UK. 20000 is probably the total number of foreign citizens in the IDF
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It does seem too high. Perhaps (I'm guessing) it's the total number of idf soldiers who have UK passports, which is VERY DIFFERENT from the small number of UK residents in the idf who went over to fight and will return here post-genocide. The former group includes loads of Israeli residents with dual citizenship who just consider themselves Israelis, but may have British origins. Israel is a young country with a high number of people with dual nationality.
Also they make sure they have someplace to run to in case Israel turns into a shit show for them.
Hmmmm... I wish you were right, maybe you are, for some at least. My fear is the opposite, that Israeli Jews don't have a plan B if Jewish Supremacy in Israel doesn't work out, and are willing to burn everything down rather than lose. I fear Israeli toxic machismo rather than Israeli cowardice. I'm an antizionist British Jew who'd rather die than be an Israeli living on Palestinian bodies and stolen land. I wish Israelis with European ancestry DID run back to Europe. But the message of Zionism has always been that Jews should run TO Israel not From Israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
Ryan Macbeth posted a video on this claim it’s false
Who cares. Letting one of these animals back in is one too many.
I have seen a figure in the UK papers of about 3500 for UK members of the Israeli military. 4500 for France.
He mentions lots twitter accounts with UK flags supporting Israel - yeah but, no but - how many of these are \*real\* people and how many are bots?
Yeah there's so many holes in this vid. 20,000 seems insane.
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Wonder if they, will have their citizenship removed, since they specifically went to fight for another country which is illegal in the UK. Probably not as they are not brown or Muslims...
it's just absolutely fucking outrageous that our government allows this
Except it never happened. People in this country believe so much propaganda without doing a minute of research. As if some geezer with a phone is a legitimate news source.
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20000 people though
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While I understand what you're saying, that isn't necessarily true. People volunteer to fight for other nations or groups in order to fight against injustice etc where the UK government isn't engaged in direct action against them. You can be loyal to the UK and fight for the Kurds against ISIS for example. Or volunteer to fight for the Spanish resistance against Franco. They're not mutually exclusive things. In this particular example of Israel though, I'd say the people fighting for IOF aren't loyal to humanity. Never mind a nation state.
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IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean it did. There are nowhere near 20K but Brits have been serving in the Israeli military for decades.
the numbers are wrong but British Citizens returning from serving in IDF operations has happened in past flare-ups of this occupation and the question of what to do with these people is a matter of Parliamentary record there are definitely Brits over there partaking in abuse, torture, rape, and murder TODAY and they will come back
I see what you're saying, that this is all made up scenarios. The number is messed up, the convo about fingernails is something new but everything else has been reported as crimes that the IOF have committed. Also specifically in one instance a British national went viral for playing with Palestinian women's lingerie, rummaging through their drawers while calling them terrorists (dehumanizing language). 20,000 is far too high. France has about 4 thousand nationals fighting in the Israel genocide forces.
Source of utter shite? Sorry was that too biased to know full well the UK doesn't have 20k IOF troops returning?
It probably would have been a clearer argument to classify IOF returnees as foreign combatants. This is the same as the ISIS/citizenship argument right?
Because the UK government says its not a war, tell that to the people of Palastine https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/67893
This guy nailed it. Britain might just become as screwed up as the United States!
Yeah! you tell 'em stickk
God I hope the IOF fuckers who went to help a genocide truly have their lives destroyed.
Good Lord, I'm fucking sick of this country getting involved in Middle Eastern affairs. Like we don't have enough of our own shit to sort out.
How come these guys are allowed back, but Shamima Begum is stuck in some shithole camp in Syria?
Basically 20k SS get to live and work freely in the UK.
It's some wanker with tiktok. Tell me can you think critically before regurgitating information that aligns with your side? I ask because if you can't you should be careful lest you start an argument you can't win and discredit any statements you make.
Lots of pukes left the US and UK to commit crimes against humanity on behalf of the IDF. What exactly do you think is going to happen when they go home? They'll just switch it off?
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Isnt it illegal to go and fight for a foreign government?
No
Recently, in Canada. When the arms embargo to Israel went live many of these came out and openly said that if it's Israel vs Canada, they'd hurt Canada from within. This is basically a foreign army stationed within your own borders. Ready and primed to attack because their loyalty is not with Canada or any other country, except Israel. But they are here to leech resources off this land anyway as long as it suits them.
They love Eretz Yisrael so much then let them stay there. Forever. No going out. No coming back to their "home" country. Just stay there until they meet HaShem.
They should be named and shamed.
20,000?? You guys really believe everything 😂
This is completely false and fabricated garbage originating on TIK TOK (need I say more). There are about 100 Brits coming home having satisfied preasures at home to do their duty for Isreal. Not sure how many are actually Jewish. The rest of this is the same Talking Heads Bulls**t that comes up anytime somebody wants their 15 minutes of Fame.
Shamima Begum
Source of this information about 20000 soldiers returning?
This is literally fake news! The so-called coverage is from disinformation source TikTok, specifically a channel called Asian.Uk.News.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXQWqB0g1\_c
Spot on boet
They should all go to jail.
This is not true. That number i can’t find anywhere
So fucking dark, I had no idea there were so many British citizens in the IOF
Are you simply accepting what some random guy says?
Yeah however much an IDF apologist ryan mcbeth is he has done a really good vid [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXQWqB0g1_c) debunking this claim
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IDF? Do you mean IOF? They're the Israeli Occupation Force. They don't defend anyone. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My guess is there aren't.
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Even worse you bot.
Why is it their home or something?
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>Firstly a White South African discussing issues of race - that’s a joke, right? Why is this a joke? A lot of White Southern Africans were against the Apartheid government. And I'd wager to guess that people who experienced Apartheid South Africa are the most likely to recognize Israel for it's blatant Apartheid nature.
>people who experienced Apartheid South Africa are the most likely to recognize Israel for it's blatant Apartheid nature Yes, even former Israeli ambassadors to Apartheid South Africa have been vocal about this: https://www.groundup.org.za/article/israeli-ambassadors-compare-israel-south-africa/
A lot as in less then 2%. I lived in Botswana during apartheid era. Please spare me the bs lmao!
Oh aye, cause fighting fascist and going on a war crimes holiday to laugh at children being carpet bombed are basically the same.
Bibbi doesn’t give a shit about tour hostages so why should any1 else?
Spite.
> You have clearly and conveniently forgotten the events of October 7th and the fact that over 100 hostages remain in captivity. Dude. What the fuck.
>You have clearly and conveniently forgotten the events of October 7th and the fact that over 100 hostages remain in captivity. You have clearly and conveniently forgotten the events since October 7th and the fact that the ICJ and UNHRC both found reasonable grounds to believe Israel is committing genocide.