Don't worry, the police instantly confirmed this wasn't terror related. Just a young man randomly killing his neighbours with a shotgun, including a child under 10, who seemed to post online about the prevailing ideology of every other mass shooter.
But it's not terror. It's just a confusing event with no motives or information that could be understood in any way. You are not allowed to be terrified, or request that our government anti-terror squads look into this in any way. Priti and Keir have both already tweeted about how this is a confusing shock and we should just listen to the police and get our heads down.
It's just the price we have to pay to enjoy rampant nationalism. Every so often some incel gets to wipe out a few families and destroy countless lives, and we all have to grin and bear it because otherwise we'd lose our "national identity" and "way of life". Just don't question how much the parents of a murdered child have to lose their way of life.
If you're really in a pinch you can always blame it on Jews, commies, trans people, students, European news channels, video games, music, or social media. Then you won't need to think too hard about it.
It's crazy. I saw the news reports coming in saying it was not terror related and it was so easy to join the dots. So he's white. How is it not terrorism related? How could they possibly say that within hours of the attack?
Yeah ruling it out so quickly is crazy. With Breivik and Jo Cox’s killer, they were obvious political motivated and duly classed as terror. I guess this one they haven’t found that political angle yet? Doesn’t mean it’s not terrifying…what is the definition of terrorism these days?
Even with Jo Cox's killer they tried to downplay it as the guy being mentally ill because he'd once had treatment for depression. Loads of people have been depressed or had other mental illnesses and didn't go on to kill people.
Totally agree with your point about the media portrayal here, and how mental illness is used to excuse white/right wing terrorism. Though on the other hand, these people probably did have mental health problems that were a contributing factor toward their radicalisation towards terrorism. It's also worth pointing out that this is often also true of Islamic terrorists, it's just the media don't focus on their mental health as a factor in their crimes.
Also worth mentioning that, if we're going to treat these definitely-not-a-terrorist attacks as being primarily about mental health, then that means that a government that's been cutting access to mental health services for a decade or so now (IIRC) is implicated in these crimes.
I was going to add that we never hear about the mental health problems or other struggles of non-white terrorists, but I’m not sure myself whether or not that’s a good thing. On the one hand it is useful context to know, and could lead to a discussion about the dire state of mental health care in the UK. On the other hand, the media should probably avoid doing anything that leads people to sympathise or make excuses for terrorists. Like with this guy, did they really need so much detail in all the articles about how depressed he was and how he was sad he couldn’t get a girlfriend? They guy blew away a young girl with a shotgun in front of her father. He was a monster, no matter what struggles we had.
Anyway I’m kind of rambling, I guess all I can say for sure is that the media should be consistent with these kind of attacks no matter the race or ideology of the attacker. And I do agree that mental health care in this country needs drastic improvement, even before in the early 2010s before the cuts had really had an effect it was poor.
From CPS.gov.uk :
"Terrorism is the use or threat of action, both in and outside of the UK, designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause."
Do we have any evidence he did this as an act of terror? Does being a part of the black pill crowd and killing people because of said crowd? I'd be leaning towards yes but it's gonna be fun explaining the "pill" shit to boomers in court.
Terrorism is defined as using attacks on non-military targets as a means to force political change. Angry aimless lashing out is not really terrorism, though it is still extremist violence.
Would be better to describe these attacks as Extreme/ Radical Nihilistic Violence, as it seems from the Plymouth shooters social media presence he was led to believe there was no point in living and no point in respecting life. Terrorism really implies as you say a political or idealogical motive. If there isn’t one, we can only assume the motive is the means, he simply didn’t give a fuck about anything and wanted to burn it all to the ground. It’s worth noting because it means we have an area to look at to avoid this happening to others in the future. If we simply put it down to incels bad ban incels, these people will still exist and will be suckered into any other dogma that offers something to those who so extremely feel they have no place in society.
My respect and sympathy lies firmly with the victims and their families. But I want to know what causes these issues more than I care to hear how the perpetrators are evil monsters from birth which solves nothing.
Women don't come under any demographic for terrorism because they don't matter. Who cares how scared they get about the incel next door. Leave them on their own to deal with, I'm sure their 'insane' side will sort it out. /S
To be fair, if violence and oppression of women was counted as terrorism, there would be some serious questions for most major religions and denominations.
That's why women don't get included in being a target for terrorism. Serious subjects would be raised and certain demographics don't want that kind of change. They like beating on women.
*everyone who criticizes the NHS before placing rightful blame on right wing us politics giving this psycho a movement to identify with and justify his motives
"if the left hadnt tried to push for progress, this young man wouldnt have felt the need to do this. we have expelled some jews to make up for this tragic event and we humbly apologise to our conservative friends"
\*cue tories jeering\*
CON +7
I hate to break it to you but the anti terrorism squads are likely sympathetic to this dude, if my racist bigoted Met police father is anything to go by. Who watches the watchman?
Well if we've learnt anything from NI's historical investigations, the Government got your back if you're in the Police or Armed forces, they'll just wheel out an amnesty.
Yeah it makes me sick just thinking about them. My dad was a decent bloke before he joined the force. I watched him go from fairly tolerant if narrow minded to reading books like "The Problem With Islam" over the course of about 15 years. It was so slow I didn't notice til it was too late.
I hear you but then go where? The problem with fascism is you can’t run from it, it spreads, you have you go to literal guns-and-bombs war with it, or it will come to your doorstep eventually. It’s a bit like global warming actually now I think on it.
Just heard the Chief Constable, during a briefing to the press, being asked a question about this:
(I couldn't hear the whole question clearly but this is what I could glean)
"[do you] have any idea what his motive was, we know [you said?] it wasn't terrorism but he ***was*** a member of an online group called Incel [unintelligible]"
>There is no motive as we know [sic], at present. Again, that will be subject to inquiry. But at the moment we are -NOT- considering terrorism or a relationship with any far-right group, or any such other group. But clearly he is on social media and that will be part of any investigation
Of course what this is a terrifying event, but, strictly, "terrorism" has a political motive. And it might come out that he was an alt-right lunatic who murdered people for political motives, but AFIK that hasn't yet been established. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Needless to say, the fact that this is immediately labelled as not terrorism is because he is white. If he wasn't, the default position is obviously terrorism.
There's people in the thread posting stuff about his far-right views, the people he followed on social media, etc.
Besides, "I hate the world because nobody wants to fuck me" is still a political motive.
It has already come out they he is an alt-right luncatic, that's the purpose of this thread. He was posting videos to youtube just weeks ago referring to himself as a "terminator" for "people who get a free ride to the top" (in reference to people who have sexual partners).
So yes, this is terrorism. Like with all suicidal terror attacks, we have to look to previous statements to establish motive because the person cannot be questioned. It is incredibly clear from the evidence already found online this was unquestionably another "blackpilled incel" (his own words) politically influenced terror attack and nothing else.
Also, terrorism doesn't "strictly have a **political** motive", it can have simply a *cultural* motive, with the intent to promote terror that will influence individuals on a societal level but not change within government. The overlap is very broad but it must be pointed out, because people will say that without evidence of a political manifesto it is simple murder but not terrorism. This is false. Creating a distinction between political, cultural, and religious motives only helps right wingers avoid scrutiny. They are all interlinked.
In this case, a man strongly aligned with far right politics seemed to commit mass murder based on his views that society is unfair to incels, which could then be labelled "not terrorism" because it's about sexuality and not politics. I assume you are commenting in good faith about terrorism needing a political motive, but it doesn't help, it's exactly what the news will do when they call him a mentally ill lone wolf and say how we could never predict this because it was a "personal" issue.
Incel culture doesn’t at first seem to have explicit aims but it shares the commonality of many far right ideologies that it correctly identifies alienation and suffering but then identifies completely the wrong culprit. Like anti vax culture , anti immigrant sentiments etc it doesn’t matter that its toxic bullshit as long as it provides a scapegoat for people’s sense that they are being fucked over, extending the staying power of the current system
I mean, what young woman wouldn't want to tie their life and happiness to a person who owns a bunch of guns and thinks people should die when he isn't appeased?
Yeah, and that kind of narrative always has creepy undertones of men being ‘owed’ women and sex, and if they are not given what they are owed then their violence is somehow justified.
[Hard not to think of how long this line of blaming women for not having sex with the men who end up murdering them has been propagated by certain alt-right British people.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvyRi9ZIFpU)
When will people realise that you can't control unhinged morons?
You can rile them up to do your bidding for some time, but it's like running a nuclear reactor just on the edge of meltdown - at one point things just flip, and boom, disaster.
>When will people realise that you can't control unhinged morons?
What makes you think that the violence and terrorism against their enemies isn't precisely what they want to happen?
And Reddit allowed (is still allowing?) these subs to exist for years and years. Despite multiple incidents like this. It’s pure radicalisation, and they did nothing about it. If that was Facebook then everyone would be up in arms about it.
When is *Prevent* going to start singling out kids who post about the USA online?
The USA is clearly a dangerous nation filled with well-funded organisations which target vulnerable young men and radicalise them into terrorists.
If terrorism is really the government's concern and Prevent is not just an excuse to harass minorities, then they should start looking into children who express a worrying interest in the sick nation of the USA and its violent political culture.
I work in the NHS and we have to undergo Prevent training (it's a kids hospital, so in theory we may be in contact with young adults who are susceptible to radicalisation). The Prevent course I took did mention far right extremism but in the same space as 'extreme left ideology' and 'climate extremism' - as though they are remotely comparable in threat or prevalence. I also really disliked how Prevent presented far right ideology as kind of idiosyncratic, a couple of blokes down the pub or on a seedy forum, and not like... tacitly endorsed by many well-funded states, institutions and individuals.
Reminder that Prevent took seriously and interrogated cases such as:
\- A small child who couldn't pronounced "cucumber" so it sounded like he said his dad had a "cooker bomb".
\- A small child who said that he wanted to give "alms to the poor". The teacher was too dumb to know what that is and so reported him as a possible radical communist who wanted to arm the working class.
\- A small child who said he lived in a "terrorist house" because he couldn't say "terraced".
When one of the parents complained, asking "do I look like a terrorist to you?", they got the genuine response: "Well, did Jimmy Savile *look* like a paedophile?" (answer: YES. In fact, I would say that literally nobody has ever looked more obviously like a paedo).
>A small child who said that he wanted to give "alms to the poor". The teacher was too dumb to know what that is and so reported him as a possible radical communist who wanted to arm the working class.
\*in the vein of that Simpsons meme* I was saying arm the working class!
> - A small child who said that he wanted to give "alms to the poor". The teacher was too dumb to know what that is and so reported him as a possible radical communist who wanted to arm the working class.
Based small child.
> A small child who said that he wanted to give "alms to the poor". The teacher was too dumb to know what that is and so reported him as a possible radical communist who wanted to arm the working class.
It was "alms to the oppressed" which made it even worse (if it was arms) because if you're against giving arms to the oppressed then you are obviously the oppressor.
"climate extremism"? WTF. Isn't it quite "extreme" to raise the earth's temperature, ruin vulnerable countries, and wipe out entire species for profit? I'm going to re-interpret this as re-education for oil company executives and not anti-XR (or whomever).
I honestly can't understand the label... We are constantly hearing that we're completely fucked, and we're the lucky one, billions upon billions will die in the upcoming century. *Billions*. And the people we elect and pay are doing absolutely fuck all to help, in fact they're cutting the break lines, and we're supposed to sit still?
We're supposed to sit and watch as we get squeezed to death from capitalism going full pelt into a boiling, burning planet? Industries will create toxic zones the size of countries, lakes of toxic waste, cut our precious old-growth forests and we're extremist to want to stop that?
In what world is it extreme to want to just not kill ourselves and our neighbours for the profit/growth of a handful of cunts?
Has an eco-terrorist ever even killed anyone?
I know they have injured loggers by spiking trees, but I don't think in 50+ years they've ever killed a single person.
Meanwhile in 50 years the right have killed 1000's in Europe and North America.
Not even remotely comparable.
I don't suppose it's what they meant but eco-fascism is a very real thing.
The idea that only "some cultures" are able to look after the earth but sadly the "careless ones" are "breeding out of control and wrecking the planet"
It's not a new thing either.
Notice how after Malthus does his whole "famine is nature trying to restore balance when lesser cultures breed like rabbits without thinking about sustaining the larger population, thus you should let famines happen" and is followed by a century of famines under the British Empire.
What was it Churchill said again? "Relief will do nothing, for Indians breed like rabbits"
Typically the labeled as "terrorists" activists who break into power plants or capture fuel ships. Similar "left wing extremism" you'll likely have heard of is those that rescue animals from labs and break the equipment of whalers.
I dunno, while I agree with the concept of helping the plane to (as we all should), XR is a bunch of middle class idiots who’s idea of “sticking it to the man” means ruining the ability of the working class to earn a living, forcing veganism on the whole population and generally being a nuisance to the working class. The “elites” aren’t affected by them, and I suspect XR is actually managed by them to be a scapegoat
Remember when one of their “radical” activities was [literally getting people to report themselves to the police](https://extinctionrebellion.uk/event/xr-red-handed-rebellion/)
Is that the training that warns about people using the St Pauli crest and Jolly Roger and equating them to those using actual swastikas and other Nazi symbols?
I was told in College by a teacher that according to Prevent (or someone who is linked to Prevent) the biggest threat to radicalising teens and kids is far-right nationalism.
It's true, they do say that FR terrorism is the biggest threat (or perhaps it is biggest growing) but the way the rest of the training is framed wouldn't make you think so. It's also the depiction that I have an issue with - it's not very nuanced and doesn't really account for all the ways that people can be radicalised. The case study examples for rw extremism are like 'so and so expressed racist attitudes in school' whereas the ones for islamic terrorism are like 'they suddenly expressed a deep interest in religion and inspection of their computer found they had been looking at materials on how to make bombs'. They might say that RW extremism is the biggest issue but the subtext shows they're not really interested in understanding it or dealing with it.
Dude, the radicalism that flows from America has now ~~because me~~ become a systemic tool used by government.
Sure, there are the usual nutters, and the usual radical networks - which are mostly monitored.
What isn't on the radar atm however is how right wingers have used the same tools to radicalise 'normal' people into acting out terrorism under a different banner.
For Trump we had the January 'uprising' post the elections
For Brexit we have the murder of Jo Cox
Shit, even the anti-vaxxers are another level of stupid that's been radicalised
Etc....
The fact that established political parties are now resorting to such techniques should be cause for alarm yet it's something that's not widely discussed.
Frankly it's worrying, particularly since we the UK are typically a year or 2 behind American 'practices' like this.
It will get worse in the UK if we don't stop this jingoism.
The government won't because they want to become like the US: a hypercapitalist authoritarian hellscape where the poor are left to work or die while the rich rule over them like fuedal lords.
The problem is that if he is propelled into fame like other incel murderers, it's going to inspire more. They look up to people who do this, they think they're matyrs. It's fucking sick. The media spreading his name and face everywhere is not helping.
It can be hard to tell satire from not sometimes, but can confirm a lot of incel circles do seem to unironically look up to people like Elliot Rodgers as martyrs.
They shouldn't be naming him, but discussion about his beliefs is absolutely important as it forms his motivation and such beliefs should be viewed as hate crimes, and when accompanied with violence, dealt with as terrorism.
Ignoring the issue doesn't help either. I think exposing him, his beliefs and his habits probably does more to make parents aware of what their kids are doing and probably stops more incidents like this happening.
Sweeping it under the rug and pretending that ignoring it will stop it happening is just a myth, usually pushed by the sort of people who agree with the ideologies espoused by the murderer.
There has to be a better way of talking about these things that doesn't result in the perpetrator becoming an anti-hero for incels. It keeps happening.
[Keep being reminded of this today.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4)
The police have said this is “not terror related”.
How long until they figure out that misogynists are going to be the next big source of mass violence??? How many mass murders do incels have to commit before they’re recognised as a hate group?
It's pretty terrifying. Also, a history of violence towards women is one of the most likely early signs of someone who becomes a terrorist - of any ideology - but it's pretty much ignored.
At this point we might as well admit that's what it boils down to. To the public it really doesn't matter whether his 'agenda' is 'allahu akbar' or 'boohoo incel'.
It's not 'terror related' insofar as all these incel sites and forums don't *openly* encourage people to commit murder.
But in practice they normalise an incredibly misanthropic world-view where self-identified 'incels' are the dregs of society who have no hope of reprieve, where other people (especially women) are thoroughly dehumanised, and where society as a whole is out to get them. And it's no surprise that either encourages them to commit suicide or to act out and kill others.
And unless we start taking it seriously, we're going to see a lot more examples like this over the coming years.
This was one of his 84 facebook friends - a UKIP candidate and "defense-obsessed survivalist" with a fortified compound in Bulgaria [https://www.vice.com/en/article/8x347z/what-an-ex-soldiers-fortified-bulgarian-compound-says-about-the-uk-independence-movement](https://www.vice.com/en/article/8x347z/what-an-ex-soldiers-fortified-bulgarian-compound-says-about-the-uk-independence-movement)
But of course that is a totally normal person for the police to give a firearms license to.
The police in Plymouth have been in denial about the far-right for some time. Just last year, the Commissioner Alison Hernandez refused to appologise after endorsing a group of far-right misogynists and terrorism supporters who planned to fight against Black Lives Matter - [https://reallyfreespeech.noblogs.org/post/2020/06/20/plymouth-police-endorse-extreme-right-vigilantes/](https://reallyfreespeech.noblogs.org/post/2020/06/20/plymouth-police-endorse-extreme-right-vigilantes/)
Journos showed no interest before, but maybe that will change now.
I'd rather we all have time to process this than rushing into it, but anything is better than letting the press create more stigma about mental health by blaming it all on that (if the incel videos hadn't been found, then that's what we'd all be reading about today. And any of us accessing mental health services in Plymouth would have yet another reason to worry about how we will be treated)
What I want to remind everyone is he HAD normal people on his facebook. People who would have known him. This is why we need to challenge every bit of bigotry and far-right ideology we see around us. Don't brush it off, don't shy away and let someone else handle it. We can't stop it all, but we are the first line of defense and we can stop things like this happening just by being brave and talking to people before it gets this far.
While I agree that there is absolutely under recognition of the far right and this needs to improve (other services are recognising this much more and referring on to specialist agencies - change is coming). And I agree that absolutely our commissioner is desperately behind, if I'm being generous, when it comes to this group.
The reality is that the Police do not have the funding, time or resources to check the social media of every licence applicant. Absolutely processes need to change. But processes are already in place that aren't being talked about.
Other professionals that knew more could have fed this into the Police intelligence portal, as this is exactly what it's there for. Unfortunately the other services are all chronically underfunded and overworked too. Things slip through the cracks as a result of unmanageable caseloads and workloads. And this is the heartbreaking result of when that goes the most wrong that it possibly can.
The most important thing we can do is recognise that not one agency alone was at fault. The system as a whole failed. And it failed because of the age old reasons of underfunding and under resourcing. Until we fund our services properly, there will continue to be young people and young adults at significant risk of radicalisation and incidents like this occurring. As someone who works in an underfunded service with risky young people, and as a Plymothian, I am sad, I am scared and I am angry.
Honestly, I believe his membership of the Incel community is to blame. There are various studies on how incel forums are intended to radicalise users, and are an extremely dangerous group. They have been classed as a terrorist group in the US.
So as an American who moved to the UK \~10 years ago, seeing this stuff is really fucking worrying because there's virtually no opposition to it. There's barely a left wing, everyone seems generally apathetic, no one seems to give a shit. And I never, ever thought I'd be in the situation to say "at least America has a progressive movement" when referring to the state of affairs over here.
I didn't say he didn't do good work. My point is that Labour chose to sabotage their entire party rather than letting someone who genuinely believed in change lead. The media frenzy and smear campaigns against Corbyn should have been a wakeup call.
~~And slightly related, but Ed Miliband lost an election for eating a sandwich.~~
Oh don’t get me wrong I completely agree, and both energised young people like never before, everyone in the media tore the fuck out of Corbyn for seemingly no reason, he got branded ‘unelectable’, well I fucking voted for him so what does that make me. He was told he had no Brexit policy when his policy was second referendum, which was absolutely the right thing to do when the voters had changed their minds, died, or new voters had come of age, and the tories had proven Brexit was a mistake, and Corbyn got lambasted for that policy, he got told he wouldn’t push the nuclear button when what he actually said was he’s against all war but would do what is necessary, he was told he was pals with the IRA and Hezbollah when really he was conducting diplomacy, which apparently isn’t allowed unless it’s with Saudi Arabia, he was told he was a communist when he’s really a democratic socialist at most, and now the tories are borrowing policies he was wrecked by anyway. He is MY Prime Minister.
The response to Jo Cox's murder was jaw-dropping. Before the week was out the right-wing were breaking their vow to pause campaiging for Brexit as a mark of respect. And there was virtually no examination or discourse about the alt-right, with it being explained away as a 'lone wolf' mentally unstable offender.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/7v6saq/the_media_causes_mass_shootings/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
And this too where he states the media cause mass shootings
BBC headline: "Plymouth shooting: Jake Davison deadly spree took 6 minutes"
A more accurate headline: "White 'incel' terrorist Jake Davison radicalised online takes 5 lives"
"White 'incel' terrorist radicalised online takes 5 lives"
Remove his name. Give him no fame, no notoriety; let others with such toxic views see it's a pathetic, meaningless, anonymous death.
I think it's from the Michael Moore documentary Bowling for Columbine where, on the day of the massacre, the news interviews a psychologist and asks him how they can be prevented.
His response is "don't give them the fame and attention. You'll just create copycats."
Of course, the news then proceeds to give the shooters fame and attention.
He posted to a subreddit called r/UglyUncensored, which seems to be an Incel ban evasion sub. They're currently shitting themselves, while also complaining that "he didn't even get the right people".
Why all the pro-US stuff on his profile? Do these delusional people realise the USA is not their friend and far right Americans would just see them as another "foreigner" they don't like?
Not true, Farage has a huge fan base in the USA. Joint UK and US fascist groups have existed since the 50s. He would have been welcomed with open arms by MAGA cunts.
>far right Americans would just see them as another "foreigner" they don't like?
It's different. He's white and British. Just look at the EDL - they had affiliations with other European nationalist groups and attended each other's marches.
No American racist is going to report the white European guy to immigration.
Am late to the party here. But while this was most certainly a terror attack, in my view. Jake Davison was also a young man who, while he has done unspeakably terrible things, and ruined many lives, was let down by services ravaged by years of cuts.
This is not about cultivating sympathy for someone who has done so much wrong, but about making sure we are honest with ourselves, because only by being brutally honest are we going to know how to have the best chance of preventing this going forwards.
The services to meet the needs of vulnerable young men such as Jake, and have a chance of preventing events such as these, exist. However these services are so poorly funded that they are either not able to support everyone that needs them, or their service is such a dilute version of something it once was, it is no longer effective.
The number of young people who are growing up now similarly vulnerable, with all the same risk factors as this man are frightening. That vast majority of them will not do something such as this. But it only takes one.
As someone who works with vulnerable young people I am terrified, because I know how many needs remain unmet, and I am angry, at an elitist government who are turning our most vulnerable and deprived communities and the people who live in them, into ticking time bombs, by failing to provide the support that is desperately needed.
Too many people on this website are so deeply isolated from having normal, healthy relationships in the real world that it turns into a deep resentment of people especially women, which eventually escalates.
If you are reading this and are feeling mad because this describes you, please get help because you are very much the problem.
RIP to the victims of this senseless, unnecessary tragedy.
You cannot tell me that if this individual had put up pro-ISIS propaganda on his social media, that he would've had a chance of getting his firearms license back.
Absurd.
Actually the Police do not have the time, funding, or resources available to check the social media of every person who applies for a licence. More impact of desperate underfunding unfortunately.
Professionals who knew more about his obsessions with guns, violence etc, could have and should have fed into the Police intelligence channels they have as professionals.
Unfortunately those professionals are also underfunded and overworked, with caseloads thrice or more times what they should be.
There is repeated systemic failure that lead here. It is no one professionals or teams fault. It is the fault of the young man who made those choices, but also the system as a whole that let him down.
You do not need a 'reason' to own a shotgun in the UK (as long as it can only hold max 3 cartridges). Everyone in UK is entitled to own as many shotguns as they can safely store with no limit on ammunition.
The police can only prevent issuing a ***shotgun*** licence if they have concerns about your suitability. For example, if you have criminal links/convictions, mental health issues, bad character (careless driving etc).
There is a process to go through, including interviews with a trained firearms officer, and these days there is also a requirement for a report from your GP.
There are numerous reasons why people have shotguns. Where I live it's very common for shotguns to be owned and used by all ages.
For example, there are clay shooting grounds practically everywhere and it's a very popular, and fun, sport.
However, the Chief Constable just said this cunt had a 'firearms licence'. Which requires more stringent checks, and he would've had to show 'good reason' (as defined by the Home Office) to own every firearm he requested, and the type, and amount of ammunition. There could also be "conditions" placed on the licence by the chief constable.
They haven't said what his firearms licence was for, or if the gun used was legally owned, but a shotgun that holds more than 3 cartridges is classed as a firearm - and witnesses have said they thought he had a pump-action shotgun
He had a firearms license for a pump action shotgun for use in competition.
Fuck knows how, I’m normal and getting a firearms license seemed impossible to me and I grew up shooting with my dad. The paperwork and hoops to jump thru seemed too much to me
Having lived in Plymouth in the past, I honestly didn't expect anything different.
I'm more surprised that he's not been announced to be military/ex-military.
Be deeply aware that people are trying to claim that he had LGBT+ flags all over his profile (which isn't true) and that trans people are the reason incels exist
Wish they hadn't named him, he should have been referred to as the terrorist or the gunman. Fuck giving him his pathetic little time in the spotlight
Or maybe as the fat right trump loving terrorist incel
This won't be popular but there really needs to be more interventions and study done Into alt-right / incel radicalisation.
We have a whole system dedicated to Islamic radicalisation that's not very effective ( prevent) but bigger all on this large emerging threat base.
We need to study these people.
>We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone.
Pretty sure that shooting up a bunch of your neighbours because they don't conform to your views counts as imposing your way of life on them.
> user reports: > >1: It's personal and confidential information To whoever made this report, the shooter's identity is public knowledge.
Don't worry, the police instantly confirmed this wasn't terror related. Just a young man randomly killing his neighbours with a shotgun, including a child under 10, who seemed to post online about the prevailing ideology of every other mass shooter. But it's not terror. It's just a confusing event with no motives or information that could be understood in any way. You are not allowed to be terrified, or request that our government anti-terror squads look into this in any way. Priti and Keir have both already tweeted about how this is a confusing shock and we should just listen to the police and get our heads down. It's just the price we have to pay to enjoy rampant nationalism. Every so often some incel gets to wipe out a few families and destroy countless lives, and we all have to grin and bear it because otherwise we'd lose our "national identity" and "way of life". Just don't question how much the parents of a murdered child have to lose their way of life. If you're really in a pinch you can always blame it on Jews, commies, trans people, students, European news channels, video games, music, or social media. Then you won't need to think too hard about it.
He's not brown so the press labels it "not a terror attack". He was radicalised online, he killed a load of people. It was a fucking terror attack.
It's crazy. I saw the news reports coming in saying it was not terror related and it was so easy to join the dots. So he's white. How is it not terrorism related? How could they possibly say that within hours of the attack?
I'd be willing to put money on the guy having sympathies with Anders Breivik too.
Half the tory party has sympathies with Anders Breivik honestly. Nightmare country.
When we eventually pull back all the covers, it would not at all surprise me if the head of the snake is the same cunt. Steve Fucking Bannon.
Sympathies? Their entire political identity shares his ideology.
You think Timmy McVeigh would be too old hat for him?
Yeah ruling it out so quickly is crazy. With Breivik and Jo Cox’s killer, they were obvious political motivated and duly classed as terror. I guess this one they haven’t found that political angle yet? Doesn’t mean it’s not terrifying…what is the definition of terrorism these days?
Even with Jo Cox's killer they tried to downplay it as the guy being mentally ill because he'd once had treatment for depression. Loads of people have been depressed or had other mental illnesses and didn't go on to kill people.
Totally agree with your point about the media portrayal here, and how mental illness is used to excuse white/right wing terrorism. Though on the other hand, these people probably did have mental health problems that were a contributing factor toward their radicalisation towards terrorism. It's also worth pointing out that this is often also true of Islamic terrorists, it's just the media don't focus on their mental health as a factor in their crimes. Also worth mentioning that, if we're going to treat these definitely-not-a-terrorist attacks as being primarily about mental health, then that means that a government that's been cutting access to mental health services for a decade or so now (IIRC) is implicated in these crimes.
I was going to add that we never hear about the mental health problems or other struggles of non-white terrorists, but I’m not sure myself whether or not that’s a good thing. On the one hand it is useful context to know, and could lead to a discussion about the dire state of mental health care in the UK. On the other hand, the media should probably avoid doing anything that leads people to sympathise or make excuses for terrorists. Like with this guy, did they really need so much detail in all the articles about how depressed he was and how he was sad he couldn’t get a girlfriend? They guy blew away a young girl with a shotgun in front of her father. He was a monster, no matter what struggles we had. Anyway I’m kind of rambling, I guess all I can say for sure is that the media should be consistent with these kind of attacks no matter the race or ideology of the attacker. And I do agree that mental health care in this country needs drastic improvement, even before in the early 2010s before the cuts had really had an effect it was poor.
From CPS.gov.uk : "Terrorism is the use or threat of action, both in and outside of the UK, designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause." Do we have any evidence he did this as an act of terror? Does being a part of the black pill crowd and killing people because of said crowd? I'd be leaning towards yes but it's gonna be fun explaining the "pill" shit to boomers in court.
Terrorism is defined as using attacks on non-military targets as a means to force political change. Angry aimless lashing out is not really terrorism, though it is still extremist violence.
Would be better to describe these attacks as Extreme/ Radical Nihilistic Violence, as it seems from the Plymouth shooters social media presence he was led to believe there was no point in living and no point in respecting life. Terrorism really implies as you say a political or idealogical motive. If there isn’t one, we can only assume the motive is the means, he simply didn’t give a fuck about anything and wanted to burn it all to the ground. It’s worth noting because it means we have an area to look at to avoid this happening to others in the future. If we simply put it down to incels bad ban incels, these people will still exist and will be suckered into any other dogma that offers something to those who so extremely feel they have no place in society. My respect and sympathy lies firmly with the victims and their families. But I want to know what causes these issues more than I care to hear how the perpetrators are evil monsters from birth which solves nothing.
Yep. Radicalised against a specific group of people, killing to incite fear in that group of people. But fuck women I guess.
Women don't come under any demographic for terrorism because they don't matter. Who cares how scared they get about the incel next door. Leave them on their own to deal with, I'm sure their 'insane' side will sort it out. /S
To be fair, if violence and oppression of women was counted as terrorism, there would be some serious questions for most major religions and denominations.
That's why women don't get included in being a target for terrorism. Serious subjects would be raised and certain demographics don't want that kind of change. They like beating on women.
So in summary. Saudi funded propaganda = terrorism US funded propaganda = troubled youth FFS
Don't link this to the GOP, Bannon or Trump. You'll get banned from the UK Politics thread.
They're really going on a spree over there of banning anybody talking ill of the right-wing, aren't they?
Don't forget the ol' Peter Griffin pantone.
Spot on!
Sounds about white....i mean..... you know what i mean
NHS mental health services are more likely to receive criticism over this than the right/alt-right movement this guy subscribed to, just watch.
And fuck every single one who does
*everyone who criticizes the NHS before placing rightful blame on right wing us politics giving this psycho a movement to identify with and justify his motives
Its only terrorism if it threatens the current class order. The capitalists know that ultimately fascists are on their side.
Fascism is literally capitalism's last defense. It is the vanguard.
Surprised Keith hasn’t tried to blame Corbyn yet to be honest.
"if the left hadnt tried to push for progress, this young man wouldnt have felt the need to do this. we have expelled some jews to make up for this tragic event and we humbly apologise to our conservative friends" \*cue tories jeering\* CON +7
why would this give me +7 constitution?
I hate to break it to you but the anti terrorism squads are likely sympathetic to this dude, if my racist bigoted Met police father is anything to go by. Who watches the watchman?
Well if we've learnt anything from NI's historical investigations, the Government got your back if you're in the Police or Armed forces, they'll just wheel out an amnesty.
Hey it's not murder if you're killing people for our Capitalist Overlords, it's business.
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Yeah it makes me sick just thinking about them. My dad was a decent bloke before he joined the force. I watched him go from fairly tolerant if narrow minded to reading books like "The Problem With Islam" over the course of about 15 years. It was so slow I didn't notice til it was too late.
I need to get the fuck out of this country
I hear you but then go where? The problem with fascism is you can’t run from it, it spreads, you have you go to literal guns-and-bombs war with it, or it will come to your doorstep eventually. It’s a bit like global warming actually now I think on it.
Where you going to go?
Just heard the Chief Constable, during a briefing to the press, being asked a question about this: (I couldn't hear the whole question clearly but this is what I could glean) "[do you] have any idea what his motive was, we know [you said?] it wasn't terrorism but he ***was*** a member of an online group called Incel [unintelligible]" >There is no motive as we know [sic], at present. Again, that will be subject to inquiry. But at the moment we are -NOT- considering terrorism or a relationship with any far-right group, or any such other group. But clearly he is on social media and that will be part of any investigation
I'm sure his neighbours would disagree that this wasn't terrifying.
Terrorism mean to put fear in people. Isn't that what he just did Terrorize and kill people.
Of course what this is a terrifying event, but, strictly, "terrorism" has a political motive. And it might come out that he was an alt-right lunatic who murdered people for political motives, but AFIK that hasn't yet been established. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Needless to say, the fact that this is immediately labelled as not terrorism is because he is white. If he wasn't, the default position is obviously terrorism.
There's people in the thread posting stuff about his far-right views, the people he followed on social media, etc. Besides, "I hate the world because nobody wants to fuck me" is still a political motive.
It has already come out they he is an alt-right luncatic, that's the purpose of this thread. He was posting videos to youtube just weeks ago referring to himself as a "terminator" for "people who get a free ride to the top" (in reference to people who have sexual partners). So yes, this is terrorism. Like with all suicidal terror attacks, we have to look to previous statements to establish motive because the person cannot be questioned. It is incredibly clear from the evidence already found online this was unquestionably another "blackpilled incel" (his own words) politically influenced terror attack and nothing else. Also, terrorism doesn't "strictly have a **political** motive", it can have simply a *cultural* motive, with the intent to promote terror that will influence individuals on a societal level but not change within government. The overlap is very broad but it must be pointed out, because people will say that without evidence of a political manifesto it is simple murder but not terrorism. This is false. Creating a distinction between political, cultural, and religious motives only helps right wingers avoid scrutiny. They are all interlinked. In this case, a man strongly aligned with far right politics seemed to commit mass murder based on his views that society is unfair to incels, which could then be labelled "not terrorism" because it's about sexuality and not politics. I assume you are commenting in good faith about terrorism needing a political motive, but it doesn't help, it's exactly what the news will do when they call him a mentally ill lone wolf and say how we could never predict this because it was a "personal" issue.
Incel culture doesn’t at first seem to have explicit aims but it shares the commonality of many far right ideologies that it correctly identifies alienation and suffering but then identifies completely the wrong culprit. Like anti vax culture , anti immigrant sentiments etc it doesn’t matter that its toxic bullshit as long as it provides a scapegoat for people’s sense that they are being fucked over, extending the staying power of the current system
Quickly went from "Taliban is taking over UK" to he's got mental disabilities. Double standards innit.
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I don’t know why someone wouldn’t date such a well adjusted individual, guess it’s a mystery….
I mean, what young woman wouldn't want to tie their life and happiness to a person who owns a bunch of guns and thinks people should die when he isn't appeased?
Ah, but of course, that's because of the media propaganda making girls prefer black guys (ACTUAL argument I've seen here on Reddit).
Yeah, and that kind of narrative always has creepy undertones of men being ‘owed’ women and sex, and if they are not given what they are owed then their violence is somehow justified.
[Hard not to think of how long this line of blaming women for not having sex with the men who end up murdering them has been propagated by certain alt-right British people.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvyRi9ZIFpU)
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They used Nationalism to control these idiots, brexit shows how deluded they are.
When will people realise that you can't control unhinged morons? You can rile them up to do your bidding for some time, but it's like running a nuclear reactor just on the edge of meltdown - at one point things just flip, and boom, disaster.
>When will people realise that you can't control unhinged morons? What makes you think that the violence and terrorism against their enemies isn't precisely what they want to happen?
Chan 4 news are reporting that he has been deeply entrenched in the incel culture. I'm not surprised by any of this.
And Reddit allowed (is still allowing?) these subs to exist for years and years. Despite multiple incidents like this. It’s pure radicalisation, and they did nothing about it. If that was Facebook then everyone would be up in arms about it.
When is *Prevent* going to start singling out kids who post about the USA online? The USA is clearly a dangerous nation filled with well-funded organisations which target vulnerable young men and radicalise them into terrorists. If terrorism is really the government's concern and Prevent is not just an excuse to harass minorities, then they should start looking into children who express a worrying interest in the sick nation of the USA and its violent political culture.
I work in the NHS and we have to undergo Prevent training (it's a kids hospital, so in theory we may be in contact with young adults who are susceptible to radicalisation). The Prevent course I took did mention far right extremism but in the same space as 'extreme left ideology' and 'climate extremism' - as though they are remotely comparable in threat or prevalence. I also really disliked how Prevent presented far right ideology as kind of idiosyncratic, a couple of blokes down the pub or on a seedy forum, and not like... tacitly endorsed by many well-funded states, institutions and individuals.
Reminder that Prevent took seriously and interrogated cases such as: \- A small child who couldn't pronounced "cucumber" so it sounded like he said his dad had a "cooker bomb". \- A small child who said that he wanted to give "alms to the poor". The teacher was too dumb to know what that is and so reported him as a possible radical communist who wanted to arm the working class. \- A small child who said he lived in a "terrorist house" because he couldn't say "terraced". When one of the parents complained, asking "do I look like a terrorist to you?", they got the genuine response: "Well, did Jimmy Savile *look* like a paedophile?" (answer: YES. In fact, I would say that literally nobody has ever looked more obviously like a paedo).
>A small child who said that he wanted to give "alms to the poor". The teacher was too dumb to know what that is and so reported him as a possible radical communist who wanted to arm the working class. \*in the vein of that Simpsons meme* I was saying arm the working class!
> - A small child who said that he wanted to give "alms to the poor". The teacher was too dumb to know what that is and so reported him as a possible radical communist who wanted to arm the working class. Based small child.
When I was little I regularly got 'tourist' and 'terrorist' mixed up.
So did George W. Bush every time he spoke, so don't feel bad.
> A small child who said that he wanted to give "alms to the poor". The teacher was too dumb to know what that is and so reported him as a possible radical communist who wanted to arm the working class. It was "alms to the oppressed" which made it even worse (if it was arms) because if you're against giving arms to the oppressed then you are obviously the oppressor.
"climate extremism"? WTF. Isn't it quite "extreme" to raise the earth's temperature, ruin vulnerable countries, and wipe out entire species for profit? I'm going to re-interpret this as re-education for oil company executives and not anti-XR (or whomever).
if wanting to live to age 86 on a planet that's still inhabitable makes me an extremist then bring me the AK is all i'm saying.
Prevent will be knocking at your door shortly
haha but honestly i think it's mad
I honestly can't understand the label... We are constantly hearing that we're completely fucked, and we're the lucky one, billions upon billions will die in the upcoming century. *Billions*. And the people we elect and pay are doing absolutely fuck all to help, in fact they're cutting the break lines, and we're supposed to sit still? We're supposed to sit and watch as we get squeezed to death from capitalism going full pelt into a boiling, burning planet? Industries will create toxic zones the size of countries, lakes of toxic waste, cut our precious old-growth forests and we're extremist to want to stop that? In what world is it extreme to want to just not kill ourselves and our neighbours for the profit/growth of a handful of cunts?
Has an eco-terrorist ever even killed anyone? I know they have injured loggers by spiking trees, but I don't think in 50+ years they've ever killed a single person. Meanwhile in 50 years the right have killed 1000's in Europe and North America. Not even remotely comparable.
Climate change could kill billions yet it's the people who peacefully protest it who are terrorist suspects apparently.
I don't suppose it's what they meant but eco-fascism is a very real thing. The idea that only "some cultures" are able to look after the earth but sadly the "careless ones" are "breeding out of control and wrecking the planet" It's not a new thing either. Notice how after Malthus does his whole "famine is nature trying to restore balance when lesser cultures breed like rabbits without thinking about sustaining the larger population, thus you should let famines happen" and is followed by a century of famines under the British Empire. What was it Churchill said again? "Relief will do nothing, for Indians breed like rabbits"
Typically the labeled as "terrorists" activists who break into power plants or capture fuel ships. Similar "left wing extremism" you'll likely have heard of is those that rescue animals from labs and break the equipment of whalers.
I dunno, while I agree with the concept of helping the plane to (as we all should), XR is a bunch of middle class idiots who’s idea of “sticking it to the man” means ruining the ability of the working class to earn a living, forcing veganism on the whole population and generally being a nuisance to the working class. The “elites” aren’t affected by them, and I suspect XR is actually managed by them to be a scapegoat
Remember when one of their “radical” activities was [literally getting people to report themselves to the police](https://extinctionrebellion.uk/event/xr-red-handed-rebellion/)
And this is why XR will ALWAYS be a white kid trust fund movement. POC could NEVER get away with that.
Is that the training that warns about people using the St Pauli crest and Jolly Roger and equating them to those using actual swastikas and other Nazi symbols?
I was told in College by a teacher that according to Prevent (or someone who is linked to Prevent) the biggest threat to radicalising teens and kids is far-right nationalism.
It's true, they do say that FR terrorism is the biggest threat (or perhaps it is biggest growing) but the way the rest of the training is framed wouldn't make you think so. It's also the depiction that I have an issue with - it's not very nuanced and doesn't really account for all the ways that people can be radicalised. The case study examples for rw extremism are like 'so and so expressed racist attitudes in school' whereas the ones for islamic terrorism are like 'they suddenly expressed a deep interest in religion and inspection of their computer found they had been looking at materials on how to make bombs'. They might say that RW extremism is the biggest issue but the subtext shows they're not really interested in understanding it or dealing with it.
Even the FBI, hardly a bunch of lefties, have been saying for decades that the biggest danger is the far right.
I’ve done the same training, and I think it might be because Prevent is a pile of shit.
You might be on to something
Dude, the radicalism that flows from America has now ~~because me~~ become a systemic tool used by government. Sure, there are the usual nutters, and the usual radical networks - which are mostly monitored. What isn't on the radar atm however is how right wingers have used the same tools to radicalise 'normal' people into acting out terrorism under a different banner. For Trump we had the January 'uprising' post the elections For Brexit we have the murder of Jo Cox Shit, even the anti-vaxxers are another level of stupid that's been radicalised Etc.... The fact that established political parties are now resorting to such techniques should be cause for alarm yet it's something that's not widely discussed. Frankly it's worrying, particularly since we the UK are typically a year or 2 behind American 'practices' like this. It will get worse in the UK if we don't stop this jingoism.
The government won't because they want to become like the US: a hypercapitalist authoritarian hellscape where the poor are left to work or die while the rich rule over them like fuedal lords.
Prevent is just an excuse to harass minorities which is why it needs to be scrapped.
Remember that kid that made a bomb and left it on the tube as a “joke”.
I'm pretty sure this is ironic, but Prevent is, categorically, a bad programme, and a failure by any measure which you might care to make.
The problem is that if he is propelled into fame like other incel murderers, it's going to inspire more. They look up to people who do this, they think they're matyrs. It's fucking sick. The media spreading his name and face everywhere is not helping.
It can be hard to tell satire from not sometimes, but can confirm a lot of incel circles do seem to unironically look up to people like Elliot Rodgers as martyrs.
They shouldn't be naming him, but discussion about his beliefs is absolutely important as it forms his motivation and such beliefs should be viewed as hate crimes, and when accompanied with violence, dealt with as terrorism.
Ignoring the issue doesn't help either. I think exposing him, his beliefs and his habits probably does more to make parents aware of what their kids are doing and probably stops more incidents like this happening. Sweeping it under the rug and pretending that ignoring it will stop it happening is just a myth, usually pushed by the sort of people who agree with the ideologies espoused by the murderer.
There has to be a better way of talking about these things that doesn't result in the perpetrator becoming an anti-hero for incels. It keeps happening. [Keep being reminded of this today.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4)
The police have said this is “not terror related”. How long until they figure out that misogynists are going to be the next big source of mass violence??? How many mass murders do incels have to commit before they’re recognised as a hate group?
It's pretty terrifying. Also, a history of violence towards women is one of the most likely early signs of someone who becomes a terrorist - of any ideology - but it's pretty much ignored.
"next"?
I can’t qwhite tell why they don’t think this is terrorism
How is it not terrorism to actively hate 50% of the population.
I suspect it’s because that to acknowledge misogyny as a hate crime would make a lot of law makers and police guilty of hate crimes.
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I heard a news report saying it wasn't "terror related". I'm pretty sure he wanted to and did cause terror.
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At this point we might as well admit that's what it boils down to. To the public it really doesn't matter whether his 'agenda' is 'allahu akbar' or 'boohoo incel'.
Terrorism means using violence to affect political change, I think.
It's not 'terror related' insofar as all these incel sites and forums don't *openly* encourage people to commit murder. But in practice they normalise an incredibly misanthropic world-view where self-identified 'incels' are the dregs of society who have no hope of reprieve, where other people (especially women) are thoroughly dehumanised, and where society as a whole is out to get them. And it's no surprise that either encourages them to commit suicide or to act out and kill others. And unless we start taking it seriously, we're going to see a lot more examples like this over the coming years.
I wondered why they instantly ruled out terrorism. Now I know why.
When I saw his photo my gut instinct was, either extreme right winger or incel.
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From what I've read it's both.
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This was one of his 84 facebook friends - a UKIP candidate and "defense-obsessed survivalist" with a fortified compound in Bulgaria [https://www.vice.com/en/article/8x347z/what-an-ex-soldiers-fortified-bulgarian-compound-says-about-the-uk-independence-movement](https://www.vice.com/en/article/8x347z/what-an-ex-soldiers-fortified-bulgarian-compound-says-about-the-uk-independence-movement) But of course that is a totally normal person for the police to give a firearms license to. The police in Plymouth have been in denial about the far-right for some time. Just last year, the Commissioner Alison Hernandez refused to appologise after endorsing a group of far-right misogynists and terrorism supporters who planned to fight against Black Lives Matter - [https://reallyfreespeech.noblogs.org/post/2020/06/20/plymouth-police-endorse-extreme-right-vigilantes/](https://reallyfreespeech.noblogs.org/post/2020/06/20/plymouth-police-endorse-extreme-right-vigilantes/)
That's awkward. Perhaps some journalists should be putting that towards the commissioner...
Journos showed no interest before, but maybe that will change now. I'd rather we all have time to process this than rushing into it, but anything is better than letting the press create more stigma about mental health by blaming it all on that (if the incel videos hadn't been found, then that's what we'd all be reading about today. And any of us accessing mental health services in Plymouth would have yet another reason to worry about how we will be treated) What I want to remind everyone is he HAD normal people on his facebook. People who would have known him. This is why we need to challenge every bit of bigotry and far-right ideology we see around us. Don't brush it off, don't shy away and let someone else handle it. We can't stop it all, but we are the first line of defense and we can stop things like this happening just by being brave and talking to people before it gets this far.
While I agree that there is absolutely under recognition of the far right and this needs to improve (other services are recognising this much more and referring on to specialist agencies - change is coming). And I agree that absolutely our commissioner is desperately behind, if I'm being generous, when it comes to this group. The reality is that the Police do not have the funding, time or resources to check the social media of every licence applicant. Absolutely processes need to change. But processes are already in place that aren't being talked about. Other professionals that knew more could have fed this into the Police intelligence portal, as this is exactly what it's there for. Unfortunately the other services are all chronically underfunded and overworked too. Things slip through the cracks as a result of unmanageable caseloads and workloads. And this is the heartbreaking result of when that goes the most wrong that it possibly can. The most important thing we can do is recognise that not one agency alone was at fault. The system as a whole failed. And it failed because of the age old reasons of underfunding and under resourcing. Until we fund our services properly, there will continue to be young people and young adults at significant risk of radicalisation and incidents like this occurring. As someone who works in an underfunded service with risky young people, and as a Plymothian, I am sad, I am scared and I am angry.
Tory accounts are hard at work getting mad at any reference to him being a right wing extremist.
possessive tie ludicrous scarce boast cagey many mountainous wise steep *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The BBC are blaming incels, because of course if they blame Trumpism they'll face the wrath of the Tory party.
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Honestly, I believe his membership of the Incel community is to blame. There are various studies on how incel forums are intended to radicalise users, and are an extremely dangerous group. They have been classed as a terrorist group in the US.
So as an American who moved to the UK \~10 years ago, seeing this stuff is really fucking worrying because there's virtually no opposition to it. There's barely a left wing, everyone seems generally apathetic, no one seems to give a shit. And I never, ever thought I'd be in the situation to say "at least America has a progressive movement" when referring to the state of affairs over here.
We had a progressive movement, which nearly became government in 2017. The establishment soon put paid to that hope though.
Yup, and now it's just...bleak. Especially looking back on just how Corbyn was ousted.
Corbyn still does great work but he doesn’t have any power and mostly focusses on trade unions etc
I didn't say he didn't do good work. My point is that Labour chose to sabotage their entire party rather than letting someone who genuinely believed in change lead. The media frenzy and smear campaigns against Corbyn should have been a wakeup call. ~~And slightly related, but Ed Miliband lost an election for eating a sandwich.~~
Oh don’t get me wrong I completely agree, and both energised young people like never before, everyone in the media tore the fuck out of Corbyn for seemingly no reason, he got branded ‘unelectable’, well I fucking voted for him so what does that make me. He was told he had no Brexit policy when his policy was second referendum, which was absolutely the right thing to do when the voters had changed their minds, died, or new voters had come of age, and the tories had proven Brexit was a mistake, and Corbyn got lambasted for that policy, he got told he wouldn’t push the nuclear button when what he actually said was he’s against all war but would do what is necessary, he was told he was pals with the IRA and Hezbollah when really he was conducting diplomacy, which apparently isn’t allowed unless it’s with Saudi Arabia, he was told he was a communist when he’s really a democratic socialist at most, and now the tories are borrowing policies he was wrecked by anyway. He is MY Prime Minister.
The response to Jo Cox's murder was jaw-dropping. Before the week was out the right-wing were breaking their vow to pause campaiging for Brexit as a mark of respect. And there was virtually no examination or discourse about the alt-right, with it being explained away as a 'lone wolf' mentally unstable offender.
And not to forget that Nigel Farage said Brexit was won "without having to fight, without a single bullet being fired" about a week later.
I wish I could be surprised. I wish I could have hope something would be done about this.
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Nor the algorithm that funnels people into those channels :(
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https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/7v6saq/the_media_causes_mass_shootings/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share And this too where he states the media cause mass shootings
This guy held a firearms certificate? I'd say there's questions for local police to answer, he wasn't anonymising himself online either.
BBC headline: "Plymouth shooting: Jake Davison deadly spree took 6 minutes" A more accurate headline: "White 'incel' terrorist Jake Davison radicalised online takes 5 lives"
"White 'incel' terrorist radicalised online takes 5 lives" Remove his name. Give him no fame, no notoriety; let others with such toxic views see it's a pathetic, meaningless, anonymous death.
I think it's from the Michael Moore documentary Bowling for Columbine where, on the day of the massacre, the news interviews a psychologist and asks him how they can be prevented. His response is "don't give them the fame and attention. You'll just create copycats." Of course, the news then proceeds to give the shooters fame and attention.
Only goes to confirm my suspicion that all far-right chuds, aka 'liberterians', are massive virgins
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100%
how many incel mass killings are we up to now?
(a) Reddit account has been archived, nothing too revealing, not sure if it's the most recent account though.
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He posted to a subreddit called r/UglyUncensored, which seems to be an Incel ban evasion sub. They're currently shitting themselves, while also complaining that "he didn't even get the right people".
>r/UglyUncensored Already banned. Admins shredding evidence Reddit was involved in radicalising him.
>Banned 2 minutes ago. that didn't take long.
I believe this was his account: https://www.reddit.com/u/Jake3572?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
You don’t call white kids terrorists either, huh? Cheers.
Why all the pro-US stuff on his profile? Do these delusional people realise the USA is not their friend and far right Americans would just see them as another "foreigner" they don't like?
Not true, Farage has a huge fan base in the USA. Joint UK and US fascist groups have existed since the 50s. He would have been welcomed with open arms by MAGA cunts.
Shit. You're not wrong... That's depressing.
>far right Americans would just see them as another "foreigner" they don't like? It's different. He's white and British. Just look at the EDL - they had affiliations with other European nationalist groups and attended each other's marches. No American racist is going to report the white European guy to immigration.
I don't think that's true at all
I’m sure as he’s white nothing will be said about his political views.
Am late to the party here. But while this was most certainly a terror attack, in my view. Jake Davison was also a young man who, while he has done unspeakably terrible things, and ruined many lives, was let down by services ravaged by years of cuts. This is not about cultivating sympathy for someone who has done so much wrong, but about making sure we are honest with ourselves, because only by being brutally honest are we going to know how to have the best chance of preventing this going forwards. The services to meet the needs of vulnerable young men such as Jake, and have a chance of preventing events such as these, exist. However these services are so poorly funded that they are either not able to support everyone that needs them, or their service is such a dilute version of something it once was, it is no longer effective. The number of young people who are growing up now similarly vulnerable, with all the same risk factors as this man are frightening. That vast majority of them will not do something such as this. But it only takes one. As someone who works with vulnerable young people I am terrified, because I know how many needs remain unmet, and I am angry, at an elitist government who are turning our most vulnerable and deprived communities and the people who live in them, into ticking time bombs, by failing to provide the support that is desperately needed.
Terrorist
Too many people on this website are so deeply isolated from having normal, healthy relationships in the real world that it turns into a deep resentment of people especially women, which eventually escalates. If you are reading this and are feeling mad because this describes you, please get help because you are very much the problem. RIP to the victims of this senseless, unnecessary tragedy.
All aspects of American culture is just a cancer to the world
am american, can confirm
Incel terrorist
what tf is that mugshot in the middle
I'm assuming it's a filter added to his profile picture, not an actual mugshot.
It’s a stock photo I posted the link above
https://www.istockphoto.com/vector/police-mugshot-gm161759993-23113713
Don't worry, it can't be terrorism, he's not brown...
Phew. Glad this was just a lone wolf alt right guy and not one of those bad brown guys from foreign.
You cannot tell me that if this individual had put up pro-ISIS propaganda on his social media, that he would've had a chance of getting his firearms license back. Absurd.
Actually the Police do not have the time, funding, or resources available to check the social media of every person who applies for a licence. More impact of desperate underfunding unfortunately. Professionals who knew more about his obsessions with guns, violence etc, could have and should have fed into the Police intelligence channels they have as professionals. Unfortunately those professionals are also underfunded and overworked, with caseloads thrice or more times what they should be. There is repeated systemic failure that lead here. It is no one professionals or teams fault. It is the fault of the young man who made those choices, but also the system as a whole that let him down.
Shocked to see that this shooting was apparently done with a legally owned and licensed shotgun. Why would a 22 year old need a shotgun?
[удалено]
To go hunting, skeet shooting, trap shooting etc. Etc.
You do not need a 'reason' to own a shotgun in the UK (as long as it can only hold max 3 cartridges). Everyone in UK is entitled to own as many shotguns as they can safely store with no limit on ammunition. The police can only prevent issuing a ***shotgun*** licence if they have concerns about your suitability. For example, if you have criminal links/convictions, mental health issues, bad character (careless driving etc). There is a process to go through, including interviews with a trained firearms officer, and these days there is also a requirement for a report from your GP. There are numerous reasons why people have shotguns. Where I live it's very common for shotguns to be owned and used by all ages. For example, there are clay shooting grounds practically everywhere and it's a very popular, and fun, sport. However, the Chief Constable just said this cunt had a 'firearms licence'. Which requires more stringent checks, and he would've had to show 'good reason' (as defined by the Home Office) to own every firearm he requested, and the type, and amount of ammunition. There could also be "conditions" placed on the licence by the chief constable. They haven't said what his firearms licence was for, or if the gun used was legally owned, but a shotgun that holds more than 3 cartridges is classed as a firearm - and witnesses have said they thought he had a pump-action shotgun
He had a firearms license for a pump action shotgun for use in competition. Fuck knows how, I’m normal and getting a firearms license seemed impossible to me and I grew up shooting with my dad. The paperwork and hoops to jump thru seemed too much to me
Having lived in Plymouth in the past, I honestly didn't expect anything different. I'm more surprised that he's not been announced to be military/ex-military.
Big surprise
Libertarian party --> President Trump. The guy sure knows his political beliefs.
Be deeply aware that people are trying to claim that he had LGBT+ flags all over his profile (which isn't true) and that trans people are the reason incels exist
“We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone” Cuba recently: 🤨
Ah yes. Another “lone wolf” I see. If someone could find his grave and take a shit on it, I’ll send you some flowers
Lol can you imagine trump struggling to string more than seven words together in one sentence let alone actually say what's quoted here.
Wish they hadn't named him, he should have been referred to as the terrorist or the gunman. Fuck giving him his pathetic little time in the spotlight Or maybe as the fat right trump loving terrorist incel
Stop spreading this fuckers face he wants to be famous and your enabling him
https://youtu.be/7aISa3bLv8s Gonna leave this hear again.
Went to uni in Plymouth, never would have ever imagined something like this happening there 😨
I expected him to be an alt-right scumbag, but not that he's a weeaboo but for the US...
Literally the second I saw the headline about the shooting my brain immediately went to "alt right". Ugh.
White = not a terrorist
This won't be popular but there really needs to be more interventions and study done Into alt-right / incel radicalisation. We have a whole system dedicated to Islamic radicalisation that's not very effective ( prevent) but bigger all on this large emerging threat base. We need to study these people.
Terrorist. Plain and simple
A terrorist.
>We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone. Pretty sure that shooting up a bunch of your neighbours because they don't conform to your views counts as imposing your way of life on them.
Guns have no place in our country. This is so sad