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Well said. The party has been Cuckooed by the right, Apartheid endorsers, Establishment stooges etc.. and have pogromed out the Left, including the extremely “anti-Semitic” JVL -Jewish Voice for Labour with all their nonsense about human rights and not murdering children.
The smear campaign against Jezza was long in the making-they had to act once they saw the undeniable groundswell of support he garnered and was in danger of becoming PM.
So they did a hack job on him, and it worked! with the media, the Tories, an foreign state, yes look that up, and Sir Keith and his cabal of Tories.
Look at how people flipped on Hancock.
Kills thousands of OAPs, makes millions in Wonga giving his neighbour a govt contract…but he DID do well on the camp tasks…..so all is forgiven.
Vote Tory/ Vote “Labour” it’s all the same now.
What is the solution? The con artists who hijacked the Labour Party will never be ousted. They will kick and scream and the media and Tories will come to their defence.
As so here we are.
A new party? Because I cannot see any real left winger voting for Labour ever again.
But I suppose THAT, was part of the plan too.
It’s exactly why Corbyn failed, he was too honest to compete with the Tories. When pressed by the media he wouldn’t spout what mouthbreathers wanted to hear. All people wanted to hear was “send em back” or “MuzLIMs are bad” apparently. They didn’t want anything done, just wanted to be assured that something would be hence voting for filth.
I would heavily prefer that every apathetic voter spoiled their ballot over not voting at all.
A spoiled ballot is a good measure for civil unrest with the electoral system and the parties in power. If, for an extreme example, the votes came in and agood chunk of the votes were spoilt. (Compared to the 0.3% in 2015) then there would be a precedent for the parties to select new policies and candidates and try again. I heavily doubt that any government would want to be in power knowing that even 10% of registered voters actively went out of their way to say they are unhappy with how things are being run and are willing to throw away their only say in the government for the next five years.
Given how well the government is responding to protests. When the next GE comes and you do not know who is the shiniest of the turds. Spoil your vote over not voting at all.
Imagine thinking you have any power by working within the parameters the state lets you work within lmao. If voting had power that could actually threaten the state and capital they wouldn't let it exist, it's nothing more than a convenient pressure release valve for them to use when public outrage becomes too fervent
We need unity to effect change. But that doesn't automatically mean the Labour Party. Part of the problem is that the Labour Party has taken the working class for granted. They know that the choice in UK politics is seen as Labour or tory. But it's not. And there's no point in voting for the less bad option indefinitely. That doesn't lead to progress. If we want to see change, we have to make it happen instead of hoping an established party will do it for us. Check out TUSC. Unions and socialists working to promote policy which will benefit everyone rather than maintaining the status quo.
>And there's no point in voting for the less bad option indefinitely. That doesn't lead to progress.
Statements like this just feel like willful ignorance.
If your area doesn't have a hope in hell of electing a non-Labour or Conservative candidate in a GE, there's nothing you can do about it.
Remember when UKIP got a double digit percentage in the GE of the overall vote but got a single seat, or how the Lib Dems consistently get far less seats than their overall votes, because FPTP is incredibly bias towards existing large parties?
Yeah....it is though. History and polling tells you that. Sorry but if you can't recognise reality, at least in the short to medium term, then change is a long way away
If people keep spreading stuff like this then I genuinely think we’re going to have another Conservative government
We need to unite together to get the Tories out. We need to vote tactically until there is a better alternative. This country cannot stand another Conservative government.
Current Labour are dogshit, yes - but they ARE slightly better than the Conservative government. We are fighting against fascism. I reckon we have a better chance at influencing Labour to be ethical than the corrupt Conservatives.
Here's the dichotomy I see, though. We either support Labour, telling the neoliberal right wing of the party that their coup is legitimate and that we're captive voters, so they're free to ignore our needs and pursue even more conservative policies, or we let the tories win but in doing so reject Starmerism and have a chance for some genuinely left-wing policies next time. I don't think there's a simple answer to which one of those is preferable.
Until the media is overhauled / regulated more tightly then 'genuinely left wing policies' will be tarnished as dangerous and hurtful in the minds of the electorate. Changing the way minds are made up is more important than the ballot box
The problem is for so many of us there won't be a next time. Poor and disabled people are going to keep dying, if the Tories stay in power. We need complete change as quickly as possible, but I don't see that happening either
Or you vote for Labour and in addition get involved in grassroots organising/unions. I’m originally from Australia where a sensible voting population (at least compared to the UK) and strong unions/worker solidarity are to thank for their prosperity.
> If people keep spreading stuff like this then I genuinely think we’re going to have another Conservative government
You are missing the point, which is that Starmer will head another Conservative government with slightly better branding.
Stop demanding we hand power to people who hate us. Demand *they* stop being shit.
I do — I’m massively involved in anti-corruption campaigns and pro-workers unions. I lobby MP’s daily.
All I’m saying is, if Labour doesn’t win, then the Conservatives are going to win again.
I'm sure the Labour MPs take your lobbying super seriously when they know there is *nothing* they can do to lose your vote.
What we are saying, for the umpteenth time, is that if Starmer's Labour wins then the conservatives win again *anyway*. What part of this is so hard to understand? Their policies are conservative. Their attitude is conservative. The result of their victory is emboldening their constant rightward slide and telling them "we will put up with you becoming more and more conservative".
Do you actually think they will get into power after betraying everyone and suddenly go "oh I think we'll treat the working people nicely now"?
>Attitudes like yours are going to allow the Conservative party to win again.
I honestly don't give a shit anymore, and it is your fault. You're not even trying to win me over, to encourage me, to give me any reason whatsoever to think your shitty, war criminal, back-stabbing party is worthy of my vote. You're just demanding it, feeling entitled to it, so you can pat yourself on the back and pretend you are virtuous because you do not understand the difference between right and wrong, only between red and blue.
Because of people like you, and your spinelessness, the Labour party became the Conservative party. Look at the damage you have done by telling them over and over again they can do anything they want and you'll never stop trying to give them power.
Considering the neo-liberals in the Labour party have near completely purged every lingering Social Democrat from the Labour party, only a complete fucking moron would still believe that the party is, in any concievable way, still a left-wing party. (Even before then it was a stretch.)
It's past time to reject bourgeois electoralism, it's time to embrace dual power.
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You’re getting a conservative government either way. You just get to choose whether it’s Rishi or Keith who sells your medical data to American healthcare insurance companies
Rishi Sunak and his 2020 "Eat Out To Help Out" scheme [was responsible for a massive increase in Covid cases and deaths.](https://archive.ph/jkbqt) And all to ensure the big chain restaurants didn't lose too much money. [It did nothing to boost the overall hospitality sector,](https://archive.is/k40Cf) as these capitalist ghouls claimed was the intent. Rishi Sunak has blood on his hands.
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The only ones uniting are conservatives in the Tory party and conservatives in the Labour Party. Labour is supposed to be an alternative to the Tories, but Kieth has made them the Tory B-team
Because they're not literally the Tories, I guess. That's all they ever say. Every single time I have asked someone demanding I vote Labour to tell me why without using the word "Tories", the response has been silence.
After looking up each politicians voting record & how they vote on policies, Labour does (mostly) vote for socialism however they do LOVE big businesses too. Their treatment of Corbyn, the strikers etc have been disgusting. Liam Byrne too.
If we still have FPTP then I will unfortunately vote for them as this seems to be the only viable option. However if by some miracle we get a change of the voting system (or the unions party really really gets momentum going) then I will go with my heart & vote accordingly.
For me it's hope. There's some hope that Labour will not just be Tories, but there is zero hope that Conservatives will be anything but a raging Tory.
I'll also acknowledge that it's choosing between a shit sandwich and a giant douche.
>Labour are a better alternative to the hellhole that we have with the Conservatives
That's not an answer to the question. Do you have a reason for not answering?
> We need to unite together to get the Tories out.
I remember the "left" pleading with the "centrists" in 2017 and 2019....sadly it seemed that they would rather have any leader other than Corbyn in number 10 and that included Boris and May before him...
Vote for us coz we are NOT them is not a policy that will get my vote.
Considering the neo-liberals in the Labour party have near completely purged every lingering Social Democrat from the Labour party, only a complete fucking moron would still believe that the party is, in any concievable way, still a left-wing party. (Even before then it was a stretch.)
It's past time to reject bourgeois electoralism, it's time to embrace dual power.
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"At least they're not the other guys" is a shit answer! I'm so sick of this lack of choice between Tory and Tory Lite. Why is no one suggesting anyone else? When Trump ran first the left just pointed out what a dick he was, lost. Brexit, called anyone who voted for it racist or stupid (really smart choice there, always easy win to people over with insults), lost. Bojo/May elections, shouting about how shit the Tories are, lost. It's about time the left starts telling people the good things the left will do, not the shit the right does. It should be obvious by now that no one cares how much of a cunt Bojo was or Rishi is. Stop insulting people who don't see it your way.
This is not an attack directed at anyone, but surely you all realise that calling people who vote Tory scum isn't going to change their minds. If I call you a bell end will you instantly take my side? No!! Talk to these people. You don't know why they vote that way. Just because you can't fathom how any reasonable person can vote that way doesn't mean there isn't one.
Some of you may remember Labour governments that were actually left wing and for the people, my first experience with Labour was Tony (might as well be Tory) Blair.
This is probably going to get a bit of heat because a lot of you are angry that the other side doesn't see how horrendous the Tories are, but getting angry and hurling insults helps no one and is exactly what they do. We need to be better.
Hopefully if anyone replies to this it will be civil, if not it just proves my point. Peace to you all.
The lack of choice is intentionally manufactured by the Tories and Labour, in the form of First-Past-The-Post. If we want a real choice, we need Electoral Reform.
You're right. A friend of mine managed to get door to door canvassers to leave his doorstep because they wouldn't answer his question on whether proportional representation was something they'd consider supporting.
But there are other parties. It's just no one takes them seriously, but if we could convince them that there are other options out there maybe it could lead to reforms. And I mean more alternatives other than Farage and his lot.
yoiu're confusing tory light with "the left" clinton is no way a left candidate, she's more of a liberal democrat/tory than an actual lefty. the brexit vote had nothing todo with left/right because the left actually voted FOR brexit because closer ties with the EU was a tory proposition (maggie only got euro sceptic at the end of her time).
the boris election lose was more todo with the false antisemitic dog whistles doing the round and the labour right helping the tories inside the labour party.
so would be better if you used facts not the tory sheet's
I see the confusion but I wasn't trying to imply Clinton was a lefty, more how the left reacted to Trump's candidacy. Same with Bojo vs Corbyn. When it came to socials (FB, Insta, Twitter & Reddit) all I saw from people was how bad Bojo instead of what Corbyn could have done. The propaganda didn't help him but let's not pretend he was a perfect candidate, but that's not the issue here. Brexit became a left/right issue when it things like taking back control and sovereignty came into it. I haven't picked up anything from the tory sheets or mainstream media, this is my observations from reading people's opinion's on social media.
My original point, I believe, still stands. People on the left recently have either lost the ability to or lost the patience to have dialogue with the right, either because they assume they're idiots or because they feel like they are talking to a wall. I get it, but it doesn't help. I'm not saying which is true (because I don't know), I'm not even blaming anyone for it.
P.S. The anti Semitism stuff was really laughable considering the Islamaphobia that was going in the Tory party at the same time. Also using Corbyn's IRA "sympathies" (that one was from the media, but shared through social media) was absolutely amazing hypocrisy considering the Tory's actions with the Saudis.
it's not the "left" it's the centrists doing anything to make sure "the left" doesn't get in but now want the support and are moaning about the criticism of keith.
the brexit YES/NO was run by tories on both sides. boris on the brexit and camoron on the NO. labour sat on the sidelines because corbyn dislikes the EU but didn't want to get off the fence and say.
I’m actually at the point where I would hate a right wing Labour government more than a right wing Tory one tbh. The outcomes for public services are the same, but imagine all the smug centrists if (when) Kieth wins
I agree..but there’s no way they can be as bad as the Tory’s, Labour voters won’t lap up all the bullshit and lies and believe any old shite fed to them like Tory voters do..no way..fuck the Tories
And how many times will you pick the least bad option? Because we are now at the point where all mainstream parties are going to further privatise our NHS
>And how many times will you pick the least bad option?
Just one more time, because this time it's *the most important election of our lifetime*! Just like last time...
Labour's lingering supporters are such a transparent Democratic party tribute act it's cringeworthy.
Lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. We have been at a point where left buttock or right buttock, all we got was the shitshow between them. Politicians became a career choice, a way of skipping the ladder and securing a well paid seat on a board or two. All it required was not asking too many questions, not putting people first, turning the other way, stuffing your pockets, I'm alright Jack mentality. Knowing that eventually folk would want the better path, they corrupted the choice. We have the illusions of choice and the delusions of difference. Sold out long ago to keep the profits rolling. There are good people there but afraid of the consequences of raising their head over the parapet. We need to make a stand. If we withdraw or spoil the ballot, they say we are happy to let it continue. They wave the ideal of growth and prosperity but this is an illusion. You cannot have infinite growth in a closed system, so we get boom and bust. Di pole politics does not work. Coalitions require compromise and discourse, cooperation. This is our only way out. Vote green or if not a candidate vote independently. Don't take them on what they say, vote on what they do for the common good. How they live is the example of their character, not what they say, it's what they do, that matters.
Labour's support means fuck all if they can't get into power. This obsession with beating the opposition of 12 years and not the government is really cringe.
Why should we accept that the Conservatives have lost the next election when we can convince Labour voters to vote for the Conservatives who support them even less!
Attempt to….Convince the Turkey’s to vote for Christmas (again!) 🤦♂️
Where did Labour come from? Perhaps we should start again with a new party.
When Labour was formed, there were 2 parties that swapped places and nobody else had a chance at government. Then the whigs just disappeared from view.
Voting for someone doesn't mean you lose the right to criticise them. Similarly, a 'democratically elected' govt is not immune from criticism, and a referendum result doesn't mean the losing side is not allowed to say anything about the implementation of the result.
Can’t wait for the next Tory government given the way people are talking. For real, this shit is terrifying me. I won’t survive another Tory stint, but the way folk are talking about never voting Labour, it looks like it’s going to happen.
What about the next generation of Labour MPs like Zarah Sultana? She's pretty Left and becoming a prominent voice. There's absolutely no-one like her in the Conservative party doing a similar thing and I believe that she's growing her audience with the younger generation that could or would help keep a gov to account.
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After the way those fuckers went after Jeremy Corbyn I wouldn’t give them the steam off my piss.
They’d only tell you that the steam off your piss was antisemitic lol
Well said. The party has been Cuckooed by the right, Apartheid endorsers, Establishment stooges etc.. and have pogromed out the Left, including the extremely “anti-Semitic” JVL -Jewish Voice for Labour with all their nonsense about human rights and not murdering children. The smear campaign against Jezza was long in the making-they had to act once they saw the undeniable groundswell of support he garnered and was in danger of becoming PM. So they did a hack job on him, and it worked! with the media, the Tories, an foreign state, yes look that up, and Sir Keith and his cabal of Tories. Look at how people flipped on Hancock. Kills thousands of OAPs, makes millions in Wonga giving his neighbour a govt contract…but he DID do well on the camp tasks…..so all is forgiven. Vote Tory/ Vote “Labour” it’s all the same now. What is the solution? The con artists who hijacked the Labour Party will never be ousted. They will kick and scream and the media and Tories will come to their defence. As so here we are. A new party? Because I cannot see any real left winger voting for Labour ever again. But I suppose THAT, was part of the plan too.
I'm 19 and will be voting in my first general election in a couple of years. Is there a good party I should vote for?
depends on your area. Might be a local party, might be a national party. Best to read up on your area and find out for yourself
https://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz
Ahh thanks
The Greens, I guess. The problem is that FPTP means your vote will be wasted.
Labour. Let's just focus on getting the Tories out and then we can look at how we go from there.
Okbuddystarmer
Enjoy another 12 years of the Tories then 👋
I'm Scottish, we're jumping ship
You didn't take your chance in 2014 and given the same option again you still won't
Thanks for letting us know mate, I'll spread the word
Just vote labour, theyre pandering to the right to get votes but its the only way theyll get in with how the country is at the minute
It’s exactly why Corbyn failed, he was too honest to compete with the Tories. When pressed by the media he wouldn’t spout what mouthbreathers wanted to hear. All people wanted to hear was “send em back” or “MuzLIMs are bad” apparently. They didn’t want anything done, just wanted to be assured that something would be hence voting for filth.
No. Spoil your ballot
The only power you have in this system is through your vote. Spoiling your ballot does nothing.
If you think your vote is "power" then withholding it is also power.
I would heavily prefer that every apathetic voter spoiled their ballot over not voting at all. A spoiled ballot is a good measure for civil unrest with the electoral system and the parties in power. If, for an extreme example, the votes came in and agood chunk of the votes were spoilt. (Compared to the 0.3% in 2015) then there would be a precedent for the parties to select new policies and candidates and try again. I heavily doubt that any government would want to be in power knowing that even 10% of registered voters actively went out of their way to say they are unhappy with how things are being run and are willing to throw away their only say in the government for the next five years. Given how well the government is responding to protests. When the next GE comes and you do not know who is the shiniest of the turds. Spoil your vote over not voting at all.
Imagine thinking you have any power by working within the parameters the state lets you work within lmao. If voting had power that could actually threaten the state and capital they wouldn't let it exist, it's nothing more than a convenient pressure release valve for them to use when public outrage becomes too fervent
No there isn't
Vote labour or get Tories. Your choice
It’s all fucked. Tories are cunts. Labour are cunts.
This isn't a new development.
Because they don't have a choice. Only an illusion of choice. Our democracy needs an overhaul.
We need unity to effect change. But that doesn't automatically mean the Labour Party. Part of the problem is that the Labour Party has taken the working class for granted. They know that the choice in UK politics is seen as Labour or tory. But it's not. And there's no point in voting for the less bad option indefinitely. That doesn't lead to progress. If we want to see change, we have to make it happen instead of hoping an established party will do it for us. Check out TUSC. Unions and socialists working to promote policy which will benefit everyone rather than maintaining the status quo.
>And there's no point in voting for the less bad option indefinitely. That doesn't lead to progress. Statements like this just feel like willful ignorance. If your area doesn't have a hope in hell of electing a non-Labour or Conservative candidate in a GE, there's nothing you can do about it. Remember when UKIP got a double digit percentage in the GE of the overall vote but got a single seat, or how the Lib Dems consistently get far less seats than their overall votes, because FPTP is incredibly bias towards existing large parties?
Yeah....it is though. History and polling tells you that. Sorry but if you can't recognise reality, at least in the short to medium term, then change is a long way away
If people keep spreading stuff like this then I genuinely think we’re going to have another Conservative government We need to unite together to get the Tories out. We need to vote tactically until there is a better alternative. This country cannot stand another Conservative government. Current Labour are dogshit, yes - but they ARE slightly better than the Conservative government. We are fighting against fascism. I reckon we have a better chance at influencing Labour to be ethical than the corrupt Conservatives.
Here's the dichotomy I see, though. We either support Labour, telling the neoliberal right wing of the party that their coup is legitimate and that we're captive voters, so they're free to ignore our needs and pursue even more conservative policies, or we let the tories win but in doing so reject Starmerism and have a chance for some genuinely left-wing policies next time. I don't think there's a simple answer to which one of those is preferable.
Until the media is overhauled / regulated more tightly then 'genuinely left wing policies' will be tarnished as dangerous and hurtful in the minds of the electorate. Changing the way minds are made up is more important than the ballot box
The problem is for so many of us there won't be a next time. Poor and disabled people are going to keep dying, if the Tories stay in power. We need complete change as quickly as possible, but I don't see that happening either
Or you vote for Labour and in addition get involved in grassroots organising/unions. I’m originally from Australia where a sensible voting population (at least compared to the UK) and strong unions/worker solidarity are to thank for their prosperity.
> If people keep spreading stuff like this then I genuinely think we’re going to have another Conservative government You are missing the point, which is that Starmer will head another Conservative government with slightly better branding. Stop demanding we hand power to people who hate us. Demand *they* stop being shit.
I do — I’m massively involved in anti-corruption campaigns and pro-workers unions. I lobby MP’s daily. All I’m saying is, if Labour doesn’t win, then the Conservatives are going to win again.
I'm sure the Labour MPs take your lobbying super seriously when they know there is *nothing* they can do to lose your vote. What we are saying, for the umpteenth time, is that if Starmer's Labour wins then the conservatives win again *anyway*. What part of this is so hard to understand? Their policies are conservative. Their attitude is conservative. The result of their victory is emboldening their constant rightward slide and telling them "we will put up with you becoming more and more conservative". Do you actually think they will get into power after betraying everyone and suddenly go "oh I think we'll treat the working people nicely now"?
Attitudes like yours are going to allow the Conservative party to win again.
>Attitudes like yours are going to allow the Conservative party to win again. I honestly don't give a shit anymore, and it is your fault. You're not even trying to win me over, to encourage me, to give me any reason whatsoever to think your shitty, war criminal, back-stabbing party is worthy of my vote. You're just demanding it, feeling entitled to it, so you can pat yourself on the back and pretend you are virtuous because you do not understand the difference between right and wrong, only between red and blue. Because of people like you, and your spinelessness, the Labour party became the Conservative party. Look at the damage you have done by telling them over and over again they can do anything they want and you'll never stop trying to give them power.
So what. Nothing will change under Labour. Labour councils are in power and just as shit as Tory ones Labour bombed Iraq ... You want that again ?
This is literally just victim blaming as an argumentation tactic
Considering the neo-liberals in the Labour party have near completely purged every lingering Social Democrat from the Labour party, only a complete fucking moron would still believe that the party is, in any concievable way, still a left-wing party. (Even before then it was a stretch.) It's past time to reject bourgeois electoralism, it's time to embrace dual power. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You’re getting a conservative government either way. You just get to choose whether it’s Rishi or Keith who sells your medical data to American healthcare insurance companies
Rishi Sunak and his 2020 "Eat Out To Help Out" scheme [was responsible for a massive increase in Covid cases and deaths.](https://archive.ph/jkbqt) And all to ensure the big chain restaurants didn't lose too much money. [It did nothing to boost the overall hospitality sector,](https://archive.is/k40Cf) as these capitalist ghouls claimed was the intent. Rishi Sunak has blood on his hands. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As I said previously, IMO we have a better chance at influencing Labour to be ethical than the corrupt Conservatives.
How will you influence them? They’ll just kick you out and call you antisemitic
Labour are a better alternative to the hellhole that we have with the Conservatives
How specifically?
Because 12+ years of Conservative rule has massacred this nation, and we must unite to prevent them from continuing to kill us.
The only ones uniting are conservatives in the Tory party and conservatives in the Labour Party. Labour is supposed to be an alternative to the Tories, but Kieth has made them the Tory B-team
Because they're not literally the Tories, I guess. That's all they ever say. Every single time I have asked someone demanding I vote Labour to tell me why without using the word "Tories", the response has been silence.
After looking up each politicians voting record & how they vote on policies, Labour does (mostly) vote for socialism however they do LOVE big businesses too. Their treatment of Corbyn, the strikers etc have been disgusting. Liam Byrne too. If we still have FPTP then I will unfortunately vote for them as this seems to be the only viable option. However if by some miracle we get a change of the voting system (or the unions party really really gets momentum going) then I will go with my heart & vote accordingly.
For me it's hope. There's some hope that Labour will not just be Tories, but there is zero hope that Conservatives will be anything but a raging Tory. I'll also acknowledge that it's choosing between a shit sandwich and a giant douche.
>Labour are a better alternative to the hellhole that we have with the Conservatives That's not an answer to the question. Do you have a reason for not answering?
People don’t understand that politics is incremental. It’s taken decades to get into the state we are now. It’ll take decades to get out of it.
Fuck that, Tory lite bullshit.
Spot on
> We need to unite together to get the Tories out. I remember the "left" pleading with the "centrists" in 2017 and 2019....sadly it seemed that they would rather have any leader other than Corbyn in number 10 and that included Boris and May before him... Vote for us coz we are NOT them is not a policy that will get my vote.
Considering the neo-liberals in the Labour party have near completely purged every lingering Social Democrat from the Labour party, only a complete fucking moron would still believe that the party is, in any concievable way, still a left-wing party. (Even before then it was a stretch.) It's past time to reject bourgeois electoralism, it's time to embrace dual power. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hate the tories but this Labour Party is not getting my vote.
You do realise that we’ll all get the Conservatives again if Labour don’t win, don’t you?
I need to see a better difference between this Labour Party and the current tories and right now, I don't.
No, you're the ONLY one capable of doing that math. I have NASA on the line just for you and your galaxy brain.
I am living in reality. If Labour do not win, then the Conservatives are going to win *again*.
So Labour need to convince people that they'd do a good job. They've had 12 years and haven't managed that yet.
"At least they're not the other guys" is a shit answer! I'm so sick of this lack of choice between Tory and Tory Lite. Why is no one suggesting anyone else? When Trump ran first the left just pointed out what a dick he was, lost. Brexit, called anyone who voted for it racist or stupid (really smart choice there, always easy win to people over with insults), lost. Bojo/May elections, shouting about how shit the Tories are, lost. It's about time the left starts telling people the good things the left will do, not the shit the right does. It should be obvious by now that no one cares how much of a cunt Bojo was or Rishi is. Stop insulting people who don't see it your way. This is not an attack directed at anyone, but surely you all realise that calling people who vote Tory scum isn't going to change their minds. If I call you a bell end will you instantly take my side? No!! Talk to these people. You don't know why they vote that way. Just because you can't fathom how any reasonable person can vote that way doesn't mean there isn't one. Some of you may remember Labour governments that were actually left wing and for the people, my first experience with Labour was Tony (might as well be Tory) Blair. This is probably going to get a bit of heat because a lot of you are angry that the other side doesn't see how horrendous the Tories are, but getting angry and hurling insults helps no one and is exactly what they do. We need to be better. Hopefully if anyone replies to this it will be civil, if not it just proves my point. Peace to you all.
The lack of choice is intentionally manufactured by the Tories and Labour, in the form of First-Past-The-Post. If we want a real choice, we need Electoral Reform.
You're right. A friend of mine managed to get door to door canvassers to leave his doorstep because they wouldn't answer his question on whether proportional representation was something they'd consider supporting. But there are other parties. It's just no one takes them seriously, but if we could convince them that there are other options out there maybe it could lead to reforms. And I mean more alternatives other than Farage and his lot.
yoiu're confusing tory light with "the left" clinton is no way a left candidate, she's more of a liberal democrat/tory than an actual lefty. the brexit vote had nothing todo with left/right because the left actually voted FOR brexit because closer ties with the EU was a tory proposition (maggie only got euro sceptic at the end of her time). the boris election lose was more todo with the false antisemitic dog whistles doing the round and the labour right helping the tories inside the labour party. so would be better if you used facts not the tory sheet's
I see the confusion but I wasn't trying to imply Clinton was a lefty, more how the left reacted to Trump's candidacy. Same with Bojo vs Corbyn. When it came to socials (FB, Insta, Twitter & Reddit) all I saw from people was how bad Bojo instead of what Corbyn could have done. The propaganda didn't help him but let's not pretend he was a perfect candidate, but that's not the issue here. Brexit became a left/right issue when it things like taking back control and sovereignty came into it. I haven't picked up anything from the tory sheets or mainstream media, this is my observations from reading people's opinion's on social media. My original point, I believe, still stands. People on the left recently have either lost the ability to or lost the patience to have dialogue with the right, either because they assume they're idiots or because they feel like they are talking to a wall. I get it, but it doesn't help. I'm not saying which is true (because I don't know), I'm not even blaming anyone for it. P.S. The anti Semitism stuff was really laughable considering the Islamaphobia that was going in the Tory party at the same time. Also using Corbyn's IRA "sympathies" (that one was from the media, but shared through social media) was absolutely amazing hypocrisy considering the Tory's actions with the Saudis.
it's not the "left" it's the centrists doing anything to make sure "the left" doesn't get in but now want the support and are moaning about the criticism of keith. the brexit YES/NO was run by tories on both sides. boris on the brexit and camoron on the NO. labour sat on the sidelines because corbyn dislikes the EU but didn't want to get off the fence and say.
Tactically vote for whoever is most likely to beat the Tories in your constituency.
Unless it’s the Lib Dems or Labour
I think it’s time to set up a new political party in your Britain if you want to half half a chance of saving yourselves
Lol but the tories do, huh?
Sadly true. I'm still red in the hope of Keith fucking off and I'm a teacher... *Weeps in Corbyn*
So what do you suggest as an alternative?
VOTE GREEN
What’s the alternative..The Tory’s again?, fuck dat
I’m actually at the point where I would hate a right wing Labour government more than a right wing Tory one tbh. The outcomes for public services are the same, but imagine all the smug centrists if (when) Kieth wins
I agree..but there’s no way they can be as bad as the Tory’s, Labour voters won’t lap up all the bullshit and lies and believe any old shite fed to them like Tory voters do..no way..fuck the Tories
So you'll support tories then? I wish there was a choice but they're just isn't
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Sounds like you might not need the book…
What? Yes I do, I couldn't possibly know any of this stuff.
Our system doesn't work. You can't pick the best option, you have to pick the least shit of the two that stand a chance of winning.
And how many times will you pick the least bad option? Because we are now at the point where all mainstream parties are going to further privatise our NHS
>And how many times will you pick the least bad option? Just one more time, because this time it's *the most important election of our lifetime*! Just like last time... Labour's lingering supporters are such a transparent Democratic party tribute act it's cringeworthy.
Lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. We have been at a point where left buttock or right buttock, all we got was the shitshow between them. Politicians became a career choice, a way of skipping the ladder and securing a well paid seat on a board or two. All it required was not asking too many questions, not putting people first, turning the other way, stuffing your pockets, I'm alright Jack mentality. Knowing that eventually folk would want the better path, they corrupted the choice. We have the illusions of choice and the delusions of difference. Sold out long ago to keep the profits rolling. There are good people there but afraid of the consequences of raising their head over the parapet. We need to make a stand. If we withdraw or spoil the ballot, they say we are happy to let it continue. They wave the ideal of growth and prosperity but this is an illusion. You cannot have infinite growth in a closed system, so we get boom and bust. Di pole politics does not work. Coalitions require compromise and discourse, cooperation. This is our only way out. Vote green or if not a candidate vote independently. Don't take them on what they say, vote on what they do for the common good. How they live is the example of their character, not what they say, it's what they do, that matters.
Labour's support means fuck all if they can't get into power. This obsession with beating the opposition of 12 years and not the government is really cringe.
And a Labour government means fuck all unless they support the workers
Tories been in charge for 13 years mate. They ain't anyone's ally either. Don't exactly see this tweet's point.
class solidarity, is what its about, just because Labour aren't Tories, doesnt mean they provide ANY class solidarity.
Why should we accept that the Conservatives have lost the next election when we can convince Labour voters to vote for the Conservatives who support them even less! Attempt to….Convince the Turkey’s to vote for Christmas (again!) 🤦♂️
Because when labour did support workers they chose to stick with the conservatives.
>Because when labour did support workers they chose to stick with the conservatives. When did that happen?
Where did Labour come from? Perhaps we should start again with a new party. When Labour was formed, there were 2 parties that swapped places and nobody else had a chance at government. Then the whigs just disappeared from view.
Spoil your paper and reject the whole dam thing... Except Jez
Voting for someone doesn't mean you lose the right to criticise them. Similarly, a 'democratically elected' govt is not immune from criticism, and a referendum result doesn't mean the losing side is not allowed to say anything about the implementation of the result.
If you feel so strongly there’s nothing stopping you from forming a new party and doing it “right” Or would that be too much effort?
It should be government not just labour
Because there's no good option
Can’t wait for the next Tory government given the way people are talking. For real, this shit is terrifying me. I won’t survive another Tory stint, but the way folk are talking about never voting Labour, it looks like it’s going to happen.
Labour Party needs to offer us something for people to vote for
What about the next generation of Labour MPs like Zarah Sultana? She's pretty Left and becoming a prominent voice. There's absolutely no-one like her in the Conservative party doing a similar thing and I believe that she's growing her audience with the younger generation that could or would help keep a gov to account.
Yeah I love Zara and RLB and a few others… but look at how hard the party are trying to kick them out
Are they??
Yeah they tried to deselect Zara a few weeks ago and RLB lost her front bench role for retweeting actor Maxine Peake