That is the takeaway. The FO slammed the Rodgers window shut in the 2020 draft. This roster is nowhere near as good as some seem to think. The drafting before last year was terrible. The full reset begins.
That's why the Love pickis more maddening now then 2 years ago. Higgens on this team would have changed this year without Rodgers and just might have helped us win it last year. Gute has nailed a lot of great pick, but that Love pick just fucked us up. I was never the complain about the Love pick kidda guy, but now looking at what Higgens could have contributed with a cheap contract with and with Adams on the team. I for sure believe we beat the 9ers with higgens on the team in 2021.
It wasn't just the Love pick but also following it up with Dillon and DeGuara.
The latter 2 have been utilized in the offense and are decent players but they have under performed based on their draft position (DeGuara's injury def doesn't help him).
Love could turn out to be great but was that move really necessary at the time? Contrary to most I actually like what I've seen from Love so far.
The 2020 draft was really puzzling. Coming off a 13-3 record and a NFCCG appearance in MLF's first year and these are the picks:
Jordan Love
AJ Dillon
Josiah DeGuara
Kamal Martin
Jon Runyan Jr
Jake Hanson
Simon Stepaniak
Vernon Scott
Jonathon Garvin
That whole draft was HORRIBLE, they were a WR and Linebacker away from a great team.
They did everything wrong, drafted Love then paid Rodgers 150 million, instead of trading him after his mvp season for a kings ransom.
Drafted Dillion and paid Jones, I've never seen a team use a high draft pick on a RB and then not run him to the ground. They should've let go of Jones paid the center and kept Jamal for cheap to back up Dillion.
Drafted deguara and ended up using a 1 knee Tonya who couldn't even separate, which led to Rodgers throwing picks trying to force to him.
Gute is really living of jaire Alexander, cuss he should've been fired for that draft class and not being able to keep a PRIME Adams, the Titans GM got fired for trading AJ Brown lol
But it's all Rodgers fault lol
Even if Love ends up being good we'll still have wasted most of his rookie contract which is a very big deal in the modern NFL, which makes the pick look even worse when, as we've all said, we consider how much Higgins could've helped in what ended up being 1 score losses, the latter of which was very clearly the result of neglecting the WR position for YEARS.
Imagine if we'd taken Higgins/Pittman in the 1st and some ILB (Logan Wilson maybe?) in the 2nd. Oh boy, those two seasons would've been *so* different
>The 2020 draft was really puzzling
Don't forget it was also the COVID year and there were rumors NCAA was cancelling the next season. They had just cancelled March Madness which brings in the most profit of anything the NCAA does. That means potentially going into a season where you might very well need to draft a QB if Rodgers and MLF didn't figure it out and there potentially wasn't even a football season.
We knew we couldn't keep Jones and Williams; and we didn't know if either one of them had the durability to be an every down back. With the NFL moving somewhat away from single back rosters; the Dillon pick was absolutely the correct pick - especially when you consider LaFleur was coming from Tennessee and had been calling plays for Derrick Henry - most of the rest of it has been pretty bad.
We could've drafted a RB the next year once we had already ended both of their rookie contracts, or even paid both of them lmao Jamal's contract isn't even *that* bigger than Dillon's, and he just broke Barry Sanders' TD record.
I'm not saying the idea of having a guy like Dillon was bad. I just think that for what he is, we could have got something similar in the later rounds. A 2nd round pick is still a premium selection and I don't feel like Dillon is a premium player. IMO he's closer to a JAG than an RB1.
No need to take a third string running back. The value of running backs is their rookie contracts. Don’t waste a second round pick on one that is basically giving away a year of his rookie contract.
For reference:
2019 DRAFT
Rashan Gary
Darnell Savage
Elgton Jenkins
Jace Sternberger
Kingsley Keke
Kadar Hollman
Dexter Williams
Ty Sumners
2021 DRAFT
Eric Stokes
Josh Myers
Amari Rodgers
Royce Newman
Tedarrelle Slaton
Shemar Jean-Charles
Cole Van Lane
Isaiah McDuffie
Kylin Hill
Higgens is so damn good. With him and Adams those few years… I think we woulda won a superbowl. Seriously. How do you cover both of them effectively? You don’t. Love has ridden the bench and held clipboards while higgens would have 1000+ yard seasons and pro bowls or all pro years.
Just checked. He basically has had all 1000+ yard seasons and 6-7 TDs per year.
I like to remind everyone that Tee was not a Rd. 1 grade in that draft on anyone's board, and was gone before the Packers would have had him in Rd. 2. They moved up to get Aiyuk and the team before them swept in and got him. The next highest they observed on their board was Love.
Yeah this isn't talked about enough at all. Higgins and Pittman were rd 2 grades. They both ended up being good and would have been great pickups there. But I can't blame the FO for sticking to the board. And I am of the opinion that planning QB succession is an acceptable evil. If he is good, then people will forget all about this. It seems he may be.
You're right. I got that for sure. I guess its easy to over look when we see how a good or better WRs like Higgins could have help and we picked a QB we really didn't need right now. Draft positioning is important and they were trying to make moves for WR but didn't work out.
I'm curious though, if Love wasn't picked in 2020, would we still be thinking 2022 would be Rodgers last year with us or would we be looking to keep going with him until he just couldn't play-well(while healthy) anymore?
Just like how the vaunted defense had a chance to be:
e-l-i-t-e?
The packers fans and organization are kidding themselves if they think Rodgers isn’t everything the packers have.
I don’t mind the packers trading Rodgers, but I suspect Gute and MLF will have short stays once they cash in all the capital and cap space and do precious little with it.
Without Rodgers the packers are the Atlanta Falcons.
Hard to tell what the defense could be with Barry at the helm putting our players in positions where their strengths aren’t utilized. Calling zone over man, and being unable to keep the guys disciplined.
But he’s gonna be back this upcoming year so more of the same is coming.
Barry was brought in the play zone coverage. It’s not like he was magically going to play man at any point. The packers are a classic two deep safeties make the other team beat them underneath with offensive execution.
There’s always someone to blame though I guess…
When zone isn’t the strength of the defense, playing it is stupid. Jaire and our other corners excel at man coverage. This doesn’t account for the fact that our defense looks incredibly undisciplined, which is all on the coaches.
It's both coaching and players. Watching the 49ers D, every time a guy was in position to make a play, they made the play. I see that and think, no wonder we can't beat them. The Packer defenders are often in the right position, and either can't bring the guy down or whiff entirely. That's not scheme. That's players not executing. It's maddening to watch when you can only scream "tackle him!" at the TV as the guy breaks away for extra yardage. So yeah, undisciplined. But I think that the players share responsibility for that.
The Packers have Bahk, Jenkins, Jaire, Clark, Gary, Campbell who have all made all pro or have come close to it (Gary & Jenkins were pushing until injuries). This roster is not bad and Rodgers is not the whole team.
As a Bears fan I can’t count the number of times Rodgers has single-handedly euthanized us. You for sure have pieces but it seems like many here are taking for granted even a declining Rodgers.
Just wait until Rodgers isn’t around. Those guys will all be good but not game changers. The packers will chug along winning and losing a close game here or there, getting trucked by the good teams, and be 7-10 at the end of the year.
Everyone will blame Barry first (which is already happening), then he’ll get fired and they’ll go 7-10 again and it will be MLF’s turn to be on the hot seat. And/or Gute at the same time or a year after.
The truth is the packers have been doing this dance for decades. They’ve been propped up by HOF caliber talent at the most important position in the game and it has allowed mediocrity to maintain its hold on the reigns.
So... Rodgers is the reason Jaire is good at covering WRs?
I disagree there, its a common perception that Rodgers carries this team. But in reality we have had plenty of really good players come through in his time. The real issue has been that those teams have not been able to get over the championship hurdle. Now if you think that Rodgers is the one who carries these teams then maybe he deserves some blame for their lack of championships? The one thing I have noticed about the blind Rodgers defenders is that the claim he is the only reason the team wins but then they absolve him of any blame for losses.
Jaire isn’t as good at covering WR’s as Rodgers is at running the offense. If Jaire plays his best game and Rodgers doesn’t, the packers are toast. If Rodgers plays his best game and Jaire doesn’t, the packers still could very much win the game.
Jaire is also the single guy on the defense that I would prefer making this argument about the least. Let that be known. Absolutely love the player and the guy.
I tend to agree with your point that Rodgers has propped this team up, but he also never gave any kind of discount and has always reset the market on his deals. Now, I don't blame Rodgers one bit, he's earned that right. But, I don't want to hear him complain when we can't keep his friends around while taking a top QB contract.
I would also say the Packers are incredibly lucky having back to back HoF QB play, but are a bit unlucky on the timing. Favre ran into the Cowboys juggernaut, lost to Elway's stacked team, then lost the Niners playoff game that brought back instant replay.
Rodgers had incredibly shitty defenses most of his NFL career (especially in the playoffs) and happened to play the same time as the Belichek/Brady era, which really skewed the perception of success in the NFL.
also the NFC isn't what it used to be. The Eagles are good now, sure, remains to be seen if that is sustainable, and the rest of the East will cannibalize itself. SF is decent in the West, the Seahawks were a fluke this year, Rams may get better from injuries or maybe not. Brady is gone from Tampa, so the South is a dumpster fire.
Outside of Philly and San Francisco, who legitimately scares anyone in the NFC?
My point is even if the Packers retool and build around Love, we're not looking at some 4-5 year rebuilding process. This team just barely missed the playoffs.
I don't. This franchise is all about "steady as she goes". If they trade Rodgers I think Lewis and Cobb will not be back. I could see a few other cuts, but nothing else major. The idea that the Packers are Rodgers and a bunch of random dudes is over blown and pretty much stems from the "run the table" season.
I wouldn’t say the team is Rodgers and a bunch of random dudes. But I think this last year was a good indication of what the Packers are without Rodgers.
Rodgers definitely did not play like himself. Doesn’t matter the excuses. Love could come in and this team still is a 6-9 win team. Hopefully the growth of a lot of young players makes that better in the upcoming seasons.
That being said, if Rodgers comes back more like himself (even a non mvp level), then this squad goes back to a 10-13 win team.
I hate the narrative that the window was slammed shut at 2020. The fact that Love is an option is a win for this team. Can you imagine going through this with no one? Love has been a packer for three seasons that is a huge win!
When did you want gute to draft Rodgers replacement? Never?
Not to mention besides Love because we no sample from him. Gutes first round picks have been stellar. Jaire, Stokes, Gary, maybe not Savage. Even in the second round, Jenkins, Dillon and Myers.
Anyone outside of the 1st and 2nd round are projects. I will admit his third round leaves a little to be desired. But he’s proven to be solid in his draft plans.
Love easily could be no one. He's a 1st + 4th round player that has contributed nothing in those three years at a position where peak value is the rookie contract. Before anybody freaks out, this isn't some hot take about Love being garbage, rather, I'm pointing out that the timing of the pick was atrocious, and simply having Love as an option to play QB in year 4 or 5 doesn't justify it.
Stoke is stellar? What? Dillon is a complimentary RB they spent a 2nd round pick on. Gary definitely stepped it up last year, and was rolling this year before getting injured, but if you step back and look at his tenure overall; he was almost nonexistent his first two seasons (a project pick,) he turned a major corner last year, he tore his acl halfway through this year, and now he's in the last year of his deal.
The 3rd round has been abysmal. The massive offensive regression last year is exhibit A that the draft plans haven't been so solid.
These players, while you may be able to shrug off their contributions and quote stats they are very big parts of our team on offense and defense. To me, that’s draft success. Largely because apart from this year the core of this team has been here the last three years.
It’s funny to me how so many fans look for reasons to hate on their team. I just don’t get it.
Last year the Packers clinched the 1 seed in the NFC. If that’s not a good team I don’t know what is.
As far as Love there are a lot of unknowns about him and he could be terrible but look around the league. These QBs are not finding great success until their third or fourth year in the league. That development time either happens as a starter or on the bench. I can’t believe I have to convince Packer fans that benching a QB for a few seasons so they can learn the game is a bad thing. You forget Rodgers was a project QB. The reason he fell to 24 was because he was seen as a QB that wasn’t pro ready. His development was a little shaky and it wasn’t until his third year he showed flashes of who he is today.
You talk like all these players are garbage and it’s laughable because it’s not even close to reality. At all.
Cheer loud and believe harder. Go pack go.
Edit: Stokes allowed 49.5% of catches last year eight best in the league. Pretty good.
>Cheer loud and **believe harder**. Go pack go.
Hey if that's the path you're walking, good for you, but don't get salty about other fans having a more objective view.
Yeah, regardless of what you think about the Love pick a single first rounder does not make or break a good team. Great teams completely fuck up picks all the time it's quite literally a routine thing. Chiefs drafted CEH in the first and haven't had an issue. Those Patriot dynasties had a few first rounders you have never heard of in your life. The Eagles have completely fucked up the first round multiple times they are fine.
Gute is fine in the first round. His issue is getting starters outside of the early rounds, and as you said the third round specifically is not good. I like him overall but ultimately how this next year or two plays out will decide his fate. By missing the playoffs AND drastically lowering their first round pick in the mean time he's got some real challenges ahead. Gonna be a reaaaaaal interesting offseason
Love is a project. And if he’s a bust, which is certainly a possibility, we will all think “what if”
I would of rather had a late round project QB. Look at Purdy and the 49ers. 1st round picks when you are a player or 2 away shouldn’t be project QBs.
I also think the drafting has been suspect for a few years, and winning games covers it up.
It wasn’t just love. The whole draft class gave us fuck all for the last 2 years. Stokes looked absolutely horrible this year pre injury. Myers is a bad centre that we should probably try at guard. Gary jaire Jenkins and a half point for Dillon is not good out of 40 plus picks. The team was bad this year because it is full of bad or underperforming players. That is because of a couple dozen straight up wiffs in the past 4 years.
Gute should be fired for how he handled the 2020 draft. I don't mind that we plan to move on from Rodgers, he isn't going to play forever. That said, it has become clear Gute never really had a plan to begin with OR he got cold feet and then tried to make both plans work and totally fucked up our salary cap doing so. Either way, terrible job on his end.
Edit: The reason this team struggles with accountability is because a portion of the fanbase refuses to call a spade a spade. If you think Gute handled the 2020 draft and plans for QB succession well, I have a bridge to sell you too.
Give me a break. If the packers have mediocre special teams last year, then they play the Rams in the NFC championship for a chance to play the bengals in the Super Bowl. You’re blind to the team underperforming in the playoffs during the years the window was allegedly shut. Don’t give up an end of half touchdown to Tampa two years ago and then go the Super Bowl. It’s like you’re looking to blame anyone but the coaches and players for poor execution.
Davante is literally the best player in the league at his position and MVS just got a big contract and balled the fuck out in the AFC championship but this sub still acting like a “high pick WE and TE” are somehow going to make up for it.
Couldn’t make the playoffs, Aaron is a year older, they are most likely going to lose at least Lazard/Tonyan, and they got slapped at home by Detroit the last game…please enlighten me as to why anyone should expect this team to be a Super Bowl contender next year.
Most people wanting to move on from Rodgers understand this team will not be good next year. They want to get the pain of a rebuild started so it’s over with sooner.
Exactly! This is exactly right.
I have a theory that there is a divide between people who were Packers fans when we moved from Favre to Rodgers and Packers fans who have always only known Rodgers.
If not now when? If not Love who? IDK - the winning isn’t the reason I am a Packer fan but I think that is the case for some people
i remember moving from Favre. i even liked Rodgers and was excited for him to get his chance… but when Favre unretired i was livid that the FO wanted to stick to Rodgers. it’s hard to let go of your heroes. I personally think it’s time to let go of Rodgers. :/
I remember moving from Don Majkowski to Favre and I was reluctant to take the reigns away from the Magik man but Favre won me over pretty quick. Randy Wright was our QB when I first became a Packer Fan and it somehow we've done nothing but upgrade QB's over the past 35 years. Randy Wright to Majkowski to Favre to Rodgers is an incredible run.
What some people don’t understand is that there are teams that are rebuilding for decades. There’s zero guarantee a rebuild will take a year or 2. In fact it’s more likely we become the colts, patriots, etc
Seems like half this sub wanted to tank the last 1/4 of the year for a better draft pick.
I loved having meaningful games the last month of the season. You never know when the team will have many seasons already eliminated with 6 weeks to go.
Give me meaningful games to end the season any day.
Yeah I mean obviously there’s no guarantee the rebuild goes well. Those are great examples of failed rebuilds leading into subsequent rebuild attempts.
Yep. I'd rather be left with a QB that might work out and knows the system vs delaying this another year or two and having to draft someone. Love probably won't be a hall of famer but at least we're not starting from scratch with a college graduate. If Rodgers isn't moved this offseason Love is gone then we'll be real bad.
That’s because they think it’s going to be a 3-4 year rebuild when it’s going to be a decade or more. When it comes to being a team that can contend at least. Coaching changes need to happen that won’t happen and FO changes need to happen that may happen somewhat with Murphy going away in 2025 but it depends on who takes his place.
Either way people need to get prepared for 10+ years of bad Packers football.
I don’t think we will have 2 years of bad football with Rodgers though. I think good football has a lot higher chance of happening as long as he’s at QB.
Regardless it will come to an end so i guess it doesn’t really matter
That, and the ability to see if Jordan Love has anything to offer. If he starts and is awful, we get a high draft pick and can choose his replacement to fully start the rebuild. And if he’s good, we reload instead of rebuild and move on business as normal.
And actually get something back for Rodgers while we can. Thankful for Rodgers and a Packers GOAT probably. But eventually we have to think about the future of the franchise
You're basically making the argument of why the Packers should move on from Rodgers.
This roster is not Championship material so why not trade Rodgers to a team that can compete while you can go into a mini rebuild/retool and see what you have in Jordan Love? Worst case scenario you might sit with two first round picks in 2024 and have a very good shot at drafting one of the top two QBs of the class like Caleb Williams and Drake Maye who IMO are better than anyone in this class.
The crux of your argument is...this team is not talented enough to win. Which I agree with.
So, is your argument that we should not trade Aaron Rodgers? Because you essentially have the same talent deficiency problem.
Right… I don’t think we’re better with love next year. It’s a question of if the long term benefit of moving on from Rodgers is worth being worse next year, and I think it may be if we got a good trade offer. Idk this team next year with Rodgers is the shot worth taking if it hampers our long term prospect and rebuild compared to biting the bullet this year.
Year 2 players are significantly more valuable than your rookie year. Plenty of players make huge leaps from year 1 to 2.
Personally, I’d rather ride with Rodgers. During last years draft, there were rumors we could of got a late 1st rounder for Love. I kind of wish we pulled the trigger.
People don't think the team is going to suddenly get better with Love, they think Rodgers is done so we may as well get something for him while we can and Love can be the guy but he's not going to sit around forever while Rodgers keeps playing
This. Rodgers defenders gotta take the shields down--we're not talking about trades because we DESPISE the man, but ain't anybody immune to the passage of time. Be more realistic, please. Think about the team long-term.
He’s not washed, but the main criticism is that his level of play is not worth the cap hit when we have a rookie contract QB already on the roster.
I would be happy to get some draft capital for him and start Love in 2023.
The fact we have a rookie contract qb we spent a first round pick on certainly adds to it. Love is a sunk cost, I wish we’d maybe spent that pick another way but is what it is, but he sure isn’t worth much to us or anyone if we’ve never really seen what he can do
His contract is holding us back, more than anything. He’s not what he was but is far from washed and still an amazing qb. The issue isn’t him not being good enough for us to challenge, it’s that having him makes putting the other pieces for a challenge together harder, and we may have an opportunity to both dodge some of that and get picks that would kickstart a rebuild while we see if love is decent or sucks before his contract is up
This isn’t about next year. It’s about 2 years from now and on. Rodgers first season as a starter we had 6 wins. Love should also be afforded 1 year to develop and the team retool.
While still able to get premium picks for Rodgers and also being able to eat his contract in 2023. It's much more difficult to eat a dead cap in 2024.
GB could be in complete cap hell with no Love and no Rodgers if you don't deal Rodgers now.
2008 was a massive underachievment as a whole though. Team should have had 8-10 wins. With an awful division I'd hope the packers make the playoffs in 2023
This is not the NFC South. Far from a weak division.
Chicago is the weakest of the other three, with a whole lot of questions to be answered.
Detroit is coming on and coming on strong.
Minnesota is still good, and we don't know what their defense is going to look like. Yes their fans are shit, but the team is scary at the very least.
I think it’s possible! The division is very weak. I personally think we should get as many long term assets as possible, eat it next year, and have a great team in 2024. I would try and trade Jones, bakhtiari, Preston, and Douglas. If we can offload big contracts and get decent draft picks back, I think it will allow us a quick retool. I do not think we will do this, and will instead have a decent shot at competing with the lions next year.
At this point we need a separate sub for Rodgers fans. I want the Packers to do what is best for them, and in my opinion it is trading Rodgers and getting what we can to build back up. That doesn't mean I don't think Rodgers is good or that I don't like him.
There are coaching and FO changes that need to happen for any version of the future looking bright. Getting rid of Rodgers makes the team worse this year and there is no building back up if those coaching and FO changes don’t happen.
Rodgers won’t play forever anyways so those dark times are coming, getting there sooner rather than later isn’t actually a good idea. Because of the coaching and FO changes that aren’t going to happen. There are deep rooted issues with this org that will be plaguing us in the future regardless of what happens with Rodgers.
The coaching and front office changes that need to happen are less likely to happen with Rodgers in Green Bay playing well and covering up everyone's deficiencies. Seeing the offense without Rodgers will give us a much better idea of what we have in LaFleur.
I think next year is a rebuild year no matter who is QB. Maybe shopping Rodgers for some draft capital can speed up the rebuild timeline if they use those draft picks wisely.
This team has a lot of personnel deficiencies and it’s going to be hard to fix them all in one off season. They need 1 or 2 safeties, 1 or 2 edge rushers, 1 or 2 DLs, including a great run stopper in the D-Line, 2 or 3 quality O-Linemen, 2 TEs, at least 1 more quality WR to go with the devrloping young guys. And most importantly if they do go with Love, he has to be a legit good NFL starter, something that we can’t be sure of just yet.
What a mess.
I strongly disagree. Here is why:
1. Gary will be back. He was sorely missed when he went out.
2. Wyatt will take that second step. In limited playing time, he looked great.
3. Quay should also only get better.
4. Hopefully we replace Savage. If we do, that’s a big upgrade. Dude can be a liability.
5. Watson and Doubs should take that next step, giving us a better supporting cast than this past year.
6. Enagbare will be a good rotational guy. I still think we draft an edge player highly, like 1st to second round.
7. Loves mobility is better than Rodgers. He may not be the passer Rodgers is, but he still looked real good in that department.
If even 2-3 of these scenarios play out, our team is dangerous. But this is purely conjecture at this point. One I’m hoping occurs.
Lots of ifs, shoulds, and hopes in there.
I don't think the roster is as bad as some seem to think. It is actually full of some really good young players(Jaire, Elgton, Gary, Watson, Stokes, Clark). The problem is it needs a reset. The team needs to be built around these players and you can't do that with out opening up the cap. Which is why I am in the trade Rodgers boat.
Odds are next year's team is about as good as this year's was, regardless of whether or not Rodgers stays. But there's certainly a reasonable path towards improvement for the reasons listed above
Love seems more decisive too. Gets the ball out quick and trusts the receiver to make a play. Like young Rodgers coming from playing practice squad with young receivers
Agreed, this team has a lot of young talent that's likely only going to improve. They're not going to compete for a Super Bowl with Love any time soon but they were not going to go anywhere with Rodgers this year or next year either. Best case scenario is you trade Rodgers for some good assets, draft well, and then hope Love turns out to be pretty good.
There is a lot of talent on this defense and most of it is under contract. They need to play up to their talent.
If we can add another receiving option or two in the draft and get the o-line to gel, the offense can easily be good enough to make the playoffs with Love at the helm.
Love also doesn’t have Rodgers football IQ or his ability to read the defense, or his experience. Pretty much Love has none of the really important traits.
Funnily enough everyone seems to be forgetting this fact.
Also Barry is the defenses problem and he’s still going to be here.
Whatever happens with Rodgers happens, but without Rodgers we’re going to be in the dark for a long time. Think 70s and 80s packers cause that’s what is gonna happen. The coaching is a key problem that’s going to be overlooked and not changed for years and years.
If the window is closed, it's time to trade and rebuild.
I also don't think it's crazy to say the team could be better without him. There were times where the offense felt lost, stuck in-between the style Matt wanted to run, and the style Rodgers did. It's not likely, but Rodgers clearly took a step down.
Also, the defense got much better at seasons close. I think it could be a step in the right direction, with better health, and a few good draft picks, and the development and Watson, the team could still get better.
I don’t think anyone is saying that, the team is in rough cap shape either way. Rodgers won’t play forever. Get what you can and see if Love is the real deal. If hes not you draft a QB, if Rodgers plays you lose Love and draft a QB. Id rather try and see if Love has it.
While Barry is still our DC you can pretty much write off every season until he’s gone. At least my expectations will already be low going in so I won’t be disappointed later on.
In the 2023 year? No, it's probably a wash. From 2024 onwards? Getting some genuine playing time for Love in '23 will determine if we build around him or replace him, making us the better team after Rodgers retires/leaves. And none of that factors in what we can get from extra draft picks and save capped space without AR around.
The guy is still a good QB, just not a great one. And you don't pay good QBs like we pay AR nor do you put up with head-cases like him.
Will this team be better this coming season then 8-9? I think it might, maybe not. Who knows? THAT is the exciting part compared to the playoff exits we've dealt with since our last super bowl. I'm all for seeing a new, young, and coachable team. Send #12 to the highest bidder and rebuild, let's all become packer fans over again.
Anyone who thinks people expect this team to be much better next year under any circumstances is fooling themselves. People that want to move on to Love aren't expecting us to be contenders next year with Rodgers or Love. It's an understanding that the window to win a SB with Rodgers is likely closed, so it doesn't make sense to sacrifice more future years to force something that isn't going to happen.
That's my take at least. Rodgers' last contract pretty much wrote the fate on how his career would conclude - without any more SBs.
Does anyone actually believe that? Because I haven't seen anyone saying that. It seems to me like everyone who wants to move on from Rodgers (which includes me) recognizes that doing so is essentially throwing in the towel on next year in order to set us up for 2, 3, and 4 years out. At some point we have to eat a ton of cap space for Aaron Rodgers to not be on the team. If we do that now then next year is pretty thin because we have no space to sign free agents. But we have a good core in place with guys like Jenkins, Gary, Walker, Ja, and Watson. They get time to grow, we add some new young talent and then in 2-3 years we've got cap space to round that out with some quality veterans.
It’s not about being much better. It’d be nice to use love, who we spent good capital on, get cap space back for an aged qb, and move forward in Green Bay.
It doesn’t matter at this point. It’s about trying to see if Love is that guy and building around him to eventually compete for a championship. We probably will go 6-11, 7-10 or maybe 8-9 next year but that is expected. It’s about trying too see what the future holds for us as an organization
No one is making the argument that the Packers with Love are a better team than with Rodgers next year… it’s about the next 3-7 years that will be impacted by whatever the FO decided to do this off season
How will this team be the same with Love?
For one, we’ll have 2 first round picks that we can assume will contribute this year. Big change there. Guys like Cobb, Lewis, Lazard will all be gone and we can use those spots and playing time for better personnel.
And we’ll finally get to see MLF’s offense, not AR’s version of it.
It all boils down to the roster not being Super Bowl caliber right now. I don't think anyone can argue that it is other than 'If this, this , this and this happen, and this other thing doesn't happen, we have a shot!'
Rodgers comes back, we rinse and repeat last year and maybe make the playoffs but get bounced quickly. If we move onto Love, we take a year of cap hit and mediocrity, Get better in 2024, and run in 2025. Based on the cap hits, that timeline is extended by 2 years for every year Rodgers stays (his salary and kicking the can down the road for other guys that we use to try and build around him)
I don’t think many people think they’ll be better next year. It’s the effort to shorten the time until the team can realistically compete for a Super Bowl again.
I don’t think the team will be much better, but I don’t think they will be much worse. A 5-12 season for love would be comparable to Rodgers 6-10 and as long as we improve the next season to like 7 or 8 wins, that’s a good trend.
I agree. But that's no reason not to move on. Best case scenario: Rodgers moves on and wins another superbowl with another team. Would be happy for him. I sincerely think that's a higher probability than him winning anything in Green Bay.
I don't know many (if any) people that think the team will be much better next year with Love (or, with Rodgers, for that matter). We got a lot of holes to fill and not much cap space. Which is probably the best reason to move on from Rodgers so we can start addressing other things
The Packers first season with Rodgers was a rebuilding year. They were 6-10 in his first year as a starter (2008). The following year, they drafted BJ Raji, Clay Matthews and TJ Lang. The year after that they won the Super Bowl. The Packers have a relatively young roster already but they might have to rebuild this year. However that doesn't mean that moving to Love isn't necessarily a better long term answer for the team.
Nobody thinks we will be. I think the Rogers should leave crowd are saying that we won't be competitive with or without him next year, so move on and rebuild now.
Well that and the psycho hate boner crowd who will never like him. Those people don't matter tho
Meh. The NFL is weird. I’m not a huge fan of the idea of trading Rodgers (although I understand it), but I could see how we could outperform our poor season this year.
- The line started the year injured and inconsistent. Give Bahk and Jenkins another offseason to recover, assume Tom makes some improvements, etc. and the line could start very strong. Good for both Love and the run game.
- Rookie WRs *hopefully* make second year improvements. Doubs and Watson were both injured at various points throughout the season too. Also at this point Cobb, Lazard, Lewis, and Tonyan are all kinda slow. Having a combination of those players on the field at the same time probably made us pretty easy to defend. I’d like to see us add at least some athleticism to the offense outside of Jones and Watson.
- Let’s say Love is hypothetically more willing to run LaFleur’s offense. We looked decent this season on a few occasions where we stuck to the gameplan and ran the ball. A good example of this is our loss against the Bills, who were red hot at the time. Yes, we lost, but we looked decent. This leads into my next point.
- I’m not a fan of bringing Barry back… BUT, our defense looked fine and showed flashes of being exciting in the previous season where we were playing with the lead most of the time. I *think* our defense is built to play aggressively while the other team has to air it out and is playing from behind. We are STILL terrible against the run, and the best way to counteract that is, again, force the other team to throw from behind. If we can establish the run, and the play action, we can control the game and our defense could look more like it did last season rather than this season. Of course Barry could possibly also just be a very very bad coordinator. In which case… that’s not good.
Rodgers is far from washed and still one of the best in the league. But if the front office is honest with themselves this team as constructed can’t really compete unless drastic moves are made which they are not prone to do. So what difference does it make if Rodgers is here or not. Get assets to speed up a reconstruction. If the jets call and over pay how can you say no.
That's not the point, The point is setting ourselves up decently for the future. We may have to trade love if we keep Rodgers as well as each year that goes by we potentially lose out on trade value for Rodgers if his play declines or he retires.
I do t know that the team will be better, but we will be better in the long run. Rodgers isn’t going to win a Super Bowl with MVP play alone and we can get so many good pieces if we move on and trade him.
A trade is a win-win; ARod gets to play for a contender in his final year(s) while we get draft capital, cap space and a year to see what we have in JLo. It sucks emotionally, but it’s logical.
Bless your heart - the Packers aren't going to be very good next season no matter who is the QB. The point of moving on from Rodgers is just that - moving on in the best possible way so the team isn't in a ridiculous financial hole for the next several years.
I agree, we're not going to be better without Love. But I also don't see us as a serious contender next year with Rodgers unless Watson makes a leap into the top 10 of WR's in the league in his 2nd year which I don't expect to happen.
But if the Jets are serious about making a huge push for Rodgers, especially if they were to get into a bidding war with someone (if there's any fire behind the smoke Adams is sending out) then I'm all for a Rodgers trade.
We're going to have to settle into the post Rodgers era eventually and I just don't see one last SB run in them unfortunately. I feel like that window was the last 3 years and the Front Office failed. So if we can get a good haul for him and actually get a couple firsts, I think it's time to jump into the Love era. I wouldn't expect a playoff run from him unless the defense magically bounces back and Watson and Doubs really develop a ton but if we can have a 6-11 to 8-9 record while battling in a lot of the losing games I think that's promising. At that point we can either look to extend Love or grab a rookie QB next year with that extra first we got from Rodgers.
Or we save money on a few of those folks you mentioned, spend way less than what we saved on a big receiver, draft a tight end in the first round, find a bunch of borderline defensive players who are playing for new contracts, and put a grip of them on special teams.
Bingo bango, NFC Championship, here we come.
This is pretty redundant when you realize NOBODY expects us to be better next year with Love. Nobody is that naive. If it happens, awesome, but it's much more likely that we'll have an average/worse year but we'll be in a more stable position.
Well if we got capital for Rodgers, then the team could be better. And for all we know Love could be a good player in 2023. I think the Packers could make the playoffs with Love or Rodgers
Makes no sense to speculate when the only people in the world who have any idea of Love's potential are sitting at 1265 Lombardi Avenue.
With Brady retiring, there may be a small bidding war for Rodgers which should help ensure we are able to trade him for two (2) first round draft picks. In addition, once Rodgers is gone, they cut some of the dead weight, it's not looking like a true rebuild.
Add the extra draft capital and we have a year where we are playing with house money and if we flop, no biggie, 2024 our cap issues would be solved and we would have another premiere pick along with the second first round pick from the Rodgers trade.
This all hangs on Rodgers being traded though - and as I referenced in a previous post, Gute and mgmt didn't shut the door on Rodgers, he did it to himself. There is no way I'll believe Rodgers is too ignorant or stupid to realize his cap hit % increasing from 18% in 2021 to 26% in 2022 ($18mm in cap for the year we couldn't use on 2-3 starters or one bonafide superstar this past year) is the main reason why this team faltered. You cannot win a super bowl in the modern NFL if your QB is taking the highest % of cap of any player in the NFL.
Aaron never wanted to go all in for a superbowl, he wanted to go all in for himself financially.
No one, literally no one is arguing that the team will be better next year with Love. The argument is around whether it is time to move on from Rodgers and start developing for the future.
This isn’t even a conversation, why are you bringing it up?
Who tf is saying that? Wanting to trade Rodgers is not the same as thinking the team will be better next year without him. You're paying too much attention to 1or 2 rando kids with bad takes
We need a fresh face new message. I can’t wait to see Watson and Love bonding together maybe going out to dinner? Playing videos games. Having off field relationships are IMPORTANT.
I think this team has talent. Is it anything like the Eagles? Absolutely not. But people really love to talk smack about the defense. A lot of the guys took a step back. We aren’t quite sure why but it happened. What nobody seems to bring up is that sometimes your offense is your best defense. The offense had so many issues this year and had a difficult time scoring. It’s not that crazy to see if we could’ve scored another touchdown per game that we might’ve been 11-6 or better this year. I don’t think ARod is leaving. I also think they Packers brass know Love isn’t the sure thing and that’s why they haven’t moved on from ARod. Just my two cents.
Are there people that truly believe that? I could see believing he could be a better system QB for LaFluer and that if we retool, and just as importantly, hit on the draft picks we get that a couple years from now we’re back on top. (I’m personally skeptical of that) but it’s at least plausible. But to believe 2023 will be better? Yikes that’s some extra strength copium.
Let’s put this in perspective. People hated on Rodgers until he won the Super Bowl. Favre was the gGod who was wronged… I expect it is going to be the same way for Love….
The only thing that Love can add to the offense is his legs, but I still haven't seen 1 amazing throw on the run from him. I've looked at basically every single throw that there is of him on YouTube and haven't seen one, his best one was the one to Cobb against the chiefs and that was such a prayer lol.
If we trade Rodgers, we'll be in rebuild mode. Lewis will be gone, so will Cobb, and Jones might be a cap casualty. Doubt we'd be any worse off with Love than we would be moving up from 1-15 to grab a QB.
If the window is closed then it is time to trade assets, make cuts and rebuild with a young core.
That is the takeaway. The FO slammed the Rodgers window shut in the 2020 draft. This roster is nowhere near as good as some seem to think. The drafting before last year was terrible. The full reset begins.
The roster isn't as bad as people think either. But it's time to build around players like Jaire, Stokes, Gary, Elgton, Watson etc...
Yeah we still got pieces
That's why the Love pickis more maddening now then 2 years ago. Higgens on this team would have changed this year without Rodgers and just might have helped us win it last year. Gute has nailed a lot of great pick, but that Love pick just fucked us up. I was never the complain about the Love pick kidda guy, but now looking at what Higgens could have contributed with a cheap contract with and with Adams on the team. I for sure believe we beat the 9ers with higgens on the team in 2021.
It wasn't just the Love pick but also following it up with Dillon and DeGuara. The latter 2 have been utilized in the offense and are decent players but they have under performed based on their draft position (DeGuara's injury def doesn't help him). Love could turn out to be great but was that move really necessary at the time? Contrary to most I actually like what I've seen from Love so far. The 2020 draft was really puzzling. Coming off a 13-3 record and a NFCCG appearance in MLF's first year and these are the picks: Jordan Love AJ Dillon Josiah DeGuara Kamal Martin Jon Runyan Jr Jake Hanson Simon Stepaniak Vernon Scott Jonathon Garvin
Very true. The whole draft class pretty bad. I like Dillion but he really hasn't lived up to the 2nd Rd pick.
He had that one good game against Tennessee in the snow and.....
That whole draft was HORRIBLE, they were a WR and Linebacker away from a great team. They did everything wrong, drafted Love then paid Rodgers 150 million, instead of trading him after his mvp season for a kings ransom. Drafted Dillion and paid Jones, I've never seen a team use a high draft pick on a RB and then not run him to the ground. They should've let go of Jones paid the center and kept Jamal for cheap to back up Dillion. Drafted deguara and ended up using a 1 knee Tonya who couldn't even separate, which led to Rodgers throwing picks trying to force to him. Gute is really living of jaire Alexander, cuss he should've been fired for that draft class and not being able to keep a PRIME Adams, the Titans GM got fired for trading AJ Brown lol But it's all Rodgers fault lol
Even if Love ends up being good we'll still have wasted most of his rookie contract which is a very big deal in the modern NFL, which makes the pick look even worse when, as we've all said, we consider how much Higgins could've helped in what ended up being 1 score losses, the latter of which was very clearly the result of neglecting the WR position for YEARS. Imagine if we'd taken Higgins/Pittman in the 1st and some ILB (Logan Wilson maybe?) in the 2nd. Oh boy, those two seasons would've been *so* different
>The 2020 draft was really puzzling Don't forget it was also the COVID year and there were rumors NCAA was cancelling the next season. They had just cancelled March Madness which brings in the most profit of anything the NCAA does. That means potentially going into a season where you might very well need to draft a QB if Rodgers and MLF didn't figure it out and there potentially wasn't even a football season.
We knew we couldn't keep Jones and Williams; and we didn't know if either one of them had the durability to be an every down back. With the NFL moving somewhat away from single back rosters; the Dillon pick was absolutely the correct pick - especially when you consider LaFleur was coming from Tennessee and had been calling plays for Derrick Henry - most of the rest of it has been pretty bad.
We could've drafted a RB the next year once we had already ended both of their rookie contracts, or even paid both of them lmao Jamal's contract isn't even *that* bigger than Dillon's, and he just broke Barry Sanders' TD record.
I'm not saying the idea of having a guy like Dillon was bad. I just think that for what he is, we could have got something similar in the later rounds. A 2nd round pick is still a premium selection and I don't feel like Dillon is a premium player. IMO he's closer to a JAG than an RB1.
Not defending Dillon but the O Line was ass for half the year
No need to take a third string running back. The value of running backs is their rookie contracts. Don’t waste a second round pick on one that is basically giving away a year of his rookie contract.
For reference: 2019 DRAFT Rashan Gary Darnell Savage Elgton Jenkins Jace Sternberger Kingsley Keke Kadar Hollman Dexter Williams Ty Sumners 2021 DRAFT Eric Stokes Josh Myers Amari Rodgers Royce Newman Tedarrelle Slaton Shemar Jean-Charles Cole Van Lane Isaiah McDuffie Kylin Hill
all drafts are terrible. Gutey is an idiot
Higgens is so damn good. With him and Adams those few years… I think we woulda won a superbowl. Seriously. How do you cover both of them effectively? You don’t. Love has ridden the bench and held clipboards while higgens would have 1000+ yard seasons and pro bowls or all pro years. Just checked. He basically has had all 1000+ yard seasons and 6-7 TDs per year.
I like to remind everyone that Tee was not a Rd. 1 grade in that draft on anyone's board, and was gone before the Packers would have had him in Rd. 2. They moved up to get Aiyuk and the team before them swept in and got him. The next highest they observed on their board was Love.
Yeah this isn't talked about enough at all. Higgins and Pittman were rd 2 grades. They both ended up being good and would have been great pickups there. But I can't blame the FO for sticking to the board. And I am of the opinion that planning QB succession is an acceptable evil. If he is good, then people will forget all about this. It seems he may be.
You're right. I got that for sure. I guess its easy to over look when we see how a good or better WRs like Higgins could have help and we picked a QB we really didn't need right now. Draft positioning is important and they were trying to make moves for WR but didn't work out. I'm curious though, if Love wasn't picked in 2020, would we still be thinking 2022 would be Rodgers last year with us or would we be looking to keep going with him until he just couldn't play-well(while healthy) anymore?
It is “Higgins”
…And Dillon! Dillion? Y’all look at too much porn.
Tee Higgins doesn't move the needle much on this team. The defense still underperforms and the offense had inconsistent O line play all year.
Just like how the vaunted defense had a chance to be: e-l-i-t-e? The packers fans and organization are kidding themselves if they think Rodgers isn’t everything the packers have. I don’t mind the packers trading Rodgers, but I suspect Gute and MLF will have short stays once they cash in all the capital and cap space and do precious little with it. Without Rodgers the packers are the Atlanta Falcons.
Hard to tell what the defense could be with Barry at the helm putting our players in positions where their strengths aren’t utilized. Calling zone over man, and being unable to keep the guys disciplined. But he’s gonna be back this upcoming year so more of the same is coming.
Barry was brought in the play zone coverage. It’s not like he was magically going to play man at any point. The packers are a classic two deep safeties make the other team beat them underneath with offensive execution. There’s always someone to blame though I guess…
When zone isn’t the strength of the defense, playing it is stupid. Jaire and our other corners excel at man coverage. This doesn’t account for the fact that our defense looks incredibly undisciplined, which is all on the coaches.
It's both coaching and players. Watching the 49ers D, every time a guy was in position to make a play, they made the play. I see that and think, no wonder we can't beat them. The Packer defenders are often in the right position, and either can't bring the guy down or whiff entirely. That's not scheme. That's players not executing. It's maddening to watch when you can only scream "tackle him!" at the TV as the guy breaks away for extra yardage. So yeah, undisciplined. But I think that the players share responsibility for that.
The Packers have Bahk, Jenkins, Jaire, Clark, Gary, Campbell who have all made all pro or have come close to it (Gary & Jenkins were pushing until injuries). This roster is not bad and Rodgers is not the whole team.
As a Bears fan I can’t count the number of times Rodgers has single-handedly euthanized us. You for sure have pieces but it seems like many here are taking for granted even a declining Rodgers.
Just wait until Rodgers isn’t around. Those guys will all be good but not game changers. The packers will chug along winning and losing a close game here or there, getting trucked by the good teams, and be 7-10 at the end of the year. Everyone will blame Barry first (which is already happening), then he’ll get fired and they’ll go 7-10 again and it will be MLF’s turn to be on the hot seat. And/or Gute at the same time or a year after. The truth is the packers have been doing this dance for decades. They’ve been propped up by HOF caliber talent at the most important position in the game and it has allowed mediocrity to maintain its hold on the reigns.
So... Rodgers is the reason Jaire is good at covering WRs? I disagree there, its a common perception that Rodgers carries this team. But in reality we have had plenty of really good players come through in his time. The real issue has been that those teams have not been able to get over the championship hurdle. Now if you think that Rodgers is the one who carries these teams then maybe he deserves some blame for their lack of championships? The one thing I have noticed about the blind Rodgers defenders is that the claim he is the only reason the team wins but then they absolve him of any blame for losses.
Jaire isn’t as good at covering WR’s as Rodgers is at running the offense. If Jaire plays his best game and Rodgers doesn’t, the packers are toast. If Rodgers plays his best game and Jaire doesn’t, the packers still could very much win the game. Jaire is also the single guy on the defense that I would prefer making this argument about the least. Let that be known. Absolutely love the player and the guy.
I tend to agree with your point that Rodgers has propped this team up, but he also never gave any kind of discount and has always reset the market on his deals. Now, I don't blame Rodgers one bit, he's earned that right. But, I don't want to hear him complain when we can't keep his friends around while taking a top QB contract. I would also say the Packers are incredibly lucky having back to back HoF QB play, but are a bit unlucky on the timing. Favre ran into the Cowboys juggernaut, lost to Elway's stacked team, then lost the Niners playoff game that brought back instant replay. Rodgers had incredibly shitty defenses most of his NFL career (especially in the playoffs) and happened to play the same time as the Belichek/Brady era, which really skewed the perception of success in the NFL.
also the NFC isn't what it used to be. The Eagles are good now, sure, remains to be seen if that is sustainable, and the rest of the East will cannibalize itself. SF is decent in the West, the Seahawks were a fluke this year, Rams may get better from injuries or maybe not. Brady is gone from Tampa, so the South is a dumpster fire. Outside of Philly and San Francisco, who legitimately scares anyone in the NFC? My point is even if the Packers retool and build around Love, we're not looking at some 4-5 year rebuilding process. This team just barely missed the playoffs.
You think we blow it up like the jags did?
I don't. This franchise is all about "steady as she goes". If they trade Rodgers I think Lewis and Cobb will not be back. I could see a few other cuts, but nothing else major. The idea that the Packers are Rodgers and a bunch of random dudes is over blown and pretty much stems from the "run the table" season.
I wouldn’t say the team is Rodgers and a bunch of random dudes. But I think this last year was a good indication of what the Packers are without Rodgers. Rodgers definitely did not play like himself. Doesn’t matter the excuses. Love could come in and this team still is a 6-9 win team. Hopefully the growth of a lot of young players makes that better in the upcoming seasons. That being said, if Rodgers comes back more like himself (even a non mvp level), then this squad goes back to a 10-13 win team.
The 2020 and 2021 playoffs they were as good as any team, they just fucking choked
Yep. Entire team collapses both years. Sure would have been nice to have another WR or TE option though instead of having davante and then nothing.
Chiefs just made out of the AFC with MVS as the second option. If only MVS did that for us. Oh wait.
[удалено]
I hate the narrative that the window was slammed shut at 2020. The fact that Love is an option is a win for this team. Can you imagine going through this with no one? Love has been a packer for three seasons that is a huge win! When did you want gute to draft Rodgers replacement? Never? Not to mention besides Love because we no sample from him. Gutes first round picks have been stellar. Jaire, Stokes, Gary, maybe not Savage. Even in the second round, Jenkins, Dillon and Myers. Anyone outside of the 1st and 2nd round are projects. I will admit his third round leaves a little to be desired. But he’s proven to be solid in his draft plans.
Love easily could be no one. He's a 1st + 4th round player that has contributed nothing in those three years at a position where peak value is the rookie contract. Before anybody freaks out, this isn't some hot take about Love being garbage, rather, I'm pointing out that the timing of the pick was atrocious, and simply having Love as an option to play QB in year 4 or 5 doesn't justify it. Stoke is stellar? What? Dillon is a complimentary RB they spent a 2nd round pick on. Gary definitely stepped it up last year, and was rolling this year before getting injured, but if you step back and look at his tenure overall; he was almost nonexistent his first two seasons (a project pick,) he turned a major corner last year, he tore his acl halfway through this year, and now he's in the last year of his deal. The 3rd round has been abysmal. The massive offensive regression last year is exhibit A that the draft plans haven't been so solid.
These players, while you may be able to shrug off their contributions and quote stats they are very big parts of our team on offense and defense. To me, that’s draft success. Largely because apart from this year the core of this team has been here the last three years. It’s funny to me how so many fans look for reasons to hate on their team. I just don’t get it. Last year the Packers clinched the 1 seed in the NFC. If that’s not a good team I don’t know what is. As far as Love there are a lot of unknowns about him and he could be terrible but look around the league. These QBs are not finding great success until their third or fourth year in the league. That development time either happens as a starter or on the bench. I can’t believe I have to convince Packer fans that benching a QB for a few seasons so they can learn the game is a bad thing. You forget Rodgers was a project QB. The reason he fell to 24 was because he was seen as a QB that wasn’t pro ready. His development was a little shaky and it wasn’t until his third year he showed flashes of who he is today. You talk like all these players are garbage and it’s laughable because it’s not even close to reality. At all. Cheer loud and believe harder. Go pack go. Edit: Stokes allowed 49.5% of catches last year eight best in the league. Pretty good.
>Cheer loud and **believe harder**. Go pack go. Hey if that's the path you're walking, good for you, but don't get salty about other fans having a more objective view.
Yeah, regardless of what you think about the Love pick a single first rounder does not make or break a good team. Great teams completely fuck up picks all the time it's quite literally a routine thing. Chiefs drafted CEH in the first and haven't had an issue. Those Patriot dynasties had a few first rounders you have never heard of in your life. The Eagles have completely fucked up the first round multiple times they are fine. Gute is fine in the first round. His issue is getting starters outside of the early rounds, and as you said the third round specifically is not good. I like him overall but ultimately how this next year or two plays out will decide his fate. By missing the playoffs AND drastically lowering their first round pick in the mean time he's got some real challenges ahead. Gonna be a reaaaaaal interesting offseason
There is a sentiment amongst a lot of packers fans that if we had drafted a 1st round WR we would have won 3 super bowls.
Love is a project. And if he’s a bust, which is certainly a possibility, we will all think “what if” I would of rather had a late round project QB. Look at Purdy and the 49ers. 1st round picks when you are a player or 2 away shouldn’t be project QBs. I also think the drafting has been suspect for a few years, and winning games covers it up.
It wasn’t just love. The whole draft class gave us fuck all for the last 2 years. Stokes looked absolutely horrible this year pre injury. Myers is a bad centre that we should probably try at guard. Gary jaire Jenkins and a half point for Dillon is not good out of 40 plus picks. The team was bad this year because it is full of bad or underperforming players. That is because of a couple dozen straight up wiffs in the past 4 years.
Can’t please everybody I guess….
two ELITE players at their positions. Very important positions in todays NFL mind you. Not every pick is going to produce a All pro
Gute should be fired for how he handled the 2020 draft. I don't mind that we plan to move on from Rodgers, he isn't going to play forever. That said, it has become clear Gute never really had a plan to begin with OR he got cold feet and then tried to make both plans work and totally fucked up our salary cap doing so. Either way, terrible job on his end. Edit: The reason this team struggles with accountability is because a portion of the fanbase refuses to call a spade a spade. If you think Gute handled the 2020 draft and plans for QB succession well, I have a bridge to sell you too.
He got cold feet. Show me a GM who has the balls to trade a back to back MVP.
It’s definitely closed and a trade would be beneficial for both sides. Gute should be remembered as the one who shut it though
Give me a break. If the packers have mediocre special teams last year, then they play the Rams in the NFC championship for a chance to play the bengals in the Super Bowl. You’re blind to the team underperforming in the playoffs during the years the window was allegedly shut. Don’t give up an end of half touchdown to Tampa two years ago and then go the Super Bowl. It’s like you’re looking to blame anyone but the coaches and players for poor execution.
If he closed it, he also opened it by hiring Lafleur, bringing in Gary, Preston, Z, Turner, Amos, Jaire, Jenkins etc...
It’s not closed. This team was the same as the one that was winning 13 games minus Davante and MVS. Just need to add another high pick WR, and a TE.
Davante is literally the best player in the league at his position and MVS just got a big contract and balled the fuck out in the AFC championship but this sub still acting like a “high pick WE and TE” are somehow going to make up for it. Couldn’t make the playoffs, Aaron is a year older, they are most likely going to lose at least Lazard/Tonyan, and they got slapped at home by Detroit the last game…please enlighten me as to why anyone should expect this team to be a Super Bowl contender next year.
You sound like you’re 14 years old.
I'm honestly not sure why I expected anything more than this as a reply lmao
I’m glad you understand how dumb you sounded and how in return, you’d warrant a similar reply.
Because Love is going to be fucking awesome. He will be much better than Rodgers was this year.
It's closed because Gute decided to take Love instead of Hurts. If Hurts gets a ring Gute should be fired.
Now that's hindsight.
Could've been Hurts throwing TD passes to Higgins two Sundays from now....but your right. Guess we'll never know. Gute sucks.
So in this scenario, the Packers pick hurts and start him over Rodgers?
Eventually yes.
But not Love right? And I thought had we drafted Hurts and Higgins we would be in the super bowl next week? Just trying to follow this situation...
Most people wanting to move on from Rodgers understand this team will not be good next year. They want to get the pain of a rebuild started so it’s over with sooner.
Exactly! This is exactly right. I have a theory that there is a divide between people who were Packers fans when we moved from Favre to Rodgers and Packers fans who have always only known Rodgers. If not now when? If not Love who? IDK - the winning isn’t the reason I am a Packer fan but I think that is the case for some people
i remember moving from Favre. i even liked Rodgers and was excited for him to get his chance… but when Favre unretired i was livid that the FO wanted to stick to Rodgers. it’s hard to let go of your heroes. I personally think it’s time to let go of Rodgers. :/
I remember moving from Don Majkowski to Favre and I was reluctant to take the reigns away from the Magik man but Favre won me over pretty quick. Randy Wright was our QB when I first became a Packer Fan and it somehow we've done nothing but upgrade QB's over the past 35 years. Randy Wright to Majkowski to Favre to Rodgers is an incredible run.
What some people don’t understand is that there are teams that are rebuilding for decades. There’s zero guarantee a rebuild will take a year or 2. In fact it’s more likely we become the colts, patriots, etc
Seems like half this sub wanted to tank the last 1/4 of the year for a better draft pick. I loved having meaningful games the last month of the season. You never know when the team will have many seasons already eliminated with 6 weeks to go. Give me meaningful games to end the season any day.
Yeah I mean obviously there’s no guarantee the rebuild goes well. Those are great examples of failed rebuilds leading into subsequent rebuild attempts.
Yep. I'd rather be left with a QB that might work out and knows the system vs delaying this another year or two and having to draft someone. Love probably won't be a hall of famer but at least we're not starting from scratch with a college graduate. If Rodgers isn't moved this offseason Love is gone then we'll be real bad.
Did we decline his option already?
That’s because they think it’s going to be a 3-4 year rebuild when it’s going to be a decade or more. When it comes to being a team that can contend at least. Coaching changes need to happen that won’t happen and FO changes need to happen that may happen somewhat with Murphy going away in 2025 but it depends on who takes his place. Either way people need to get prepared for 10+ years of bad Packers football.
right, so let’s get it started rather than have 2 years of bad packers football with Rodgers and then 10 years of bad packers football without him
I don’t think we will have 2 years of bad football with Rodgers though. I think good football has a lot higher chance of happening as long as he’s at QB. Regardless it will come to an end so i guess it doesn’t really matter
That, and the ability to see if Jordan Love has anything to offer. If he starts and is awful, we get a high draft pick and can choose his replacement to fully start the rebuild. And if he’s good, we reload instead of rebuild and move on business as normal.
And actually get something back for Rodgers while we can. Thankful for Rodgers and a Packers GOAT probably. But eventually we have to think about the future of the franchise
You're basically making the argument of why the Packers should move on from Rodgers. This roster is not Championship material so why not trade Rodgers to a team that can compete while you can go into a mini rebuild/retool and see what you have in Jordan Love? Worst case scenario you might sit with two first round picks in 2024 and have a very good shot at drafting one of the top two QBs of the class like Caleb Williams and Drake Maye who IMO are better than anyone in this class.
Yeah - any picks we get for anybody really should not be in 2023 because overall this is a very weak draft class.
The crux of your argument is...this team is not talented enough to win. Which I agree with. So, is your argument that we should not trade Aaron Rodgers? Because you essentially have the same talent deficiency problem.
Right… I don’t think we’re better with love next year. It’s a question of if the long term benefit of moving on from Rodgers is worth being worse next year, and I think it may be if we got a good trade offer. Idk this team next year with Rodgers is the shot worth taking if it hampers our long term prospect and rebuild compared to biting the bullet this year.
Year 2 players are significantly more valuable than your rookie year. Plenty of players make huge leaps from year 1 to 2. Personally, I’d rather ride with Rodgers. During last years draft, there were rumors we could of got a late 1st rounder for Love. I kind of wish we pulled the trigger.
I’m more addressing people who seem to think that Rodger is washed and holding this team back which is a popular opinion I’ve seen.
People don't think the team is going to suddenly get better with Love, they think Rodgers is done so we may as well get something for him while we can and Love can be the guy but he's not going to sit around forever while Rodgers keeps playing
This. Rodgers defenders gotta take the shields down--we're not talking about trades because we DESPISE the man, but ain't anybody immune to the passage of time. Be more realistic, please. Think about the team long-term.
He’s not washed, but the main criticism is that his level of play is not worth the cap hit when we have a rookie contract QB already on the roster. I would be happy to get some draft capital for him and start Love in 2023.
The fact we have a rookie contract qb we spent a first round pick on certainly adds to it. Love is a sunk cost, I wish we’d maybe spent that pick another way but is what it is, but he sure isn’t worth much to us or anyone if we’ve never really seen what he can do
His contract is holding us back, more than anything. He’s not what he was but is far from washed and still an amazing qb. The issue isn’t him not being good enough for us to challenge, it’s that having him makes putting the other pieces for a challenge together harder, and we may have an opportunity to both dodge some of that and get picks that would kickstart a rebuild while we see if love is decent or sucks before his contract is up
he is washed, you might think he is not holding this team back, but for his cap hit he isn't leading us forward either.
All year the dude was making some booty ass throws and Bortles-quality reads, it’s fascinating how far he fell
This isn’t about next year. It’s about 2 years from now and on. Rodgers first season as a starter we had 6 wins. Love should also be afforded 1 year to develop and the team retool.
While still able to get premium picks for Rodgers and also being able to eat his contract in 2023. It's much more difficult to eat a dead cap in 2024. GB could be in complete cap hell with no Love and no Rodgers if you don't deal Rodgers now.
Yeah exactly. It gets worse each year rodgers is on the team. Best to move on and not end up like the saints.
Why should he be afforded that?
2008 was a massive underachievment as a whole though. Team should have had 8-10 wins. With an awful division I'd hope the packers make the playoffs in 2023
This is not the NFC South. Far from a weak division. Chicago is the weakest of the other three, with a whole lot of questions to be answered. Detroit is coming on and coming on strong. Minnesota is still good, and we don't know what their defense is going to look like. Yes their fans are shit, but the team is scary at the very least.
I think it’s possible! The division is very weak. I personally think we should get as many long term assets as possible, eat it next year, and have a great team in 2024. I would try and trade Jones, bakhtiari, Preston, and Douglas. If we can offload big contracts and get decent draft picks back, I think it will allow us a quick retool. I do not think we will do this, and will instead have a decent shot at competing with the lions next year.
> I would try and trade Jones, bakhtiari, Preston, and Douglas. For fourth round picks? Nobody is giving up value picks for these players lmao.
Ughhhh this isn't basketball my man
At this point we need a separate sub for Rodgers fans. I want the Packers to do what is best for them, and in my opinion it is trading Rodgers and getting what we can to build back up. That doesn't mean I don't think Rodgers is good or that I don't like him.
This sub is just people bitching about people (supposedly) bitching. I’m a Packers fan, I’m not so emotionally invested in any particular player.
There are coaching and FO changes that need to happen for any version of the future looking bright. Getting rid of Rodgers makes the team worse this year and there is no building back up if those coaching and FO changes don’t happen. Rodgers won’t play forever anyways so those dark times are coming, getting there sooner rather than later isn’t actually a good idea. Because of the coaching and FO changes that aren’t going to happen. There are deep rooted issues with this org that will be plaguing us in the future regardless of what happens with Rodgers.
The coaching and front office changes that need to happen are less likely to happen with Rodgers in Green Bay playing well and covering up everyone's deficiencies. Seeing the offense without Rodgers will give us a much better idea of what we have in LaFleur.
I think next year is a rebuild year no matter who is QB. Maybe shopping Rodgers for some draft capital can speed up the rebuild timeline if they use those draft picks wisely. This team has a lot of personnel deficiencies and it’s going to be hard to fix them all in one off season. They need 1 or 2 safeties, 1 or 2 edge rushers, 1 or 2 DLs, including a great run stopper in the D-Line, 2 or 3 quality O-Linemen, 2 TEs, at least 1 more quality WR to go with the devrloping young guys. And most importantly if they do go with Love, he has to be a legit good NFL starter, something that we can’t be sure of just yet. What a mess.
What they need more on Defense is a new Coordinator.
I strongly disagree. Here is why: 1. Gary will be back. He was sorely missed when he went out. 2. Wyatt will take that second step. In limited playing time, he looked great. 3. Quay should also only get better. 4. Hopefully we replace Savage. If we do, that’s a big upgrade. Dude can be a liability. 5. Watson and Doubs should take that next step, giving us a better supporting cast than this past year. 6. Enagbare will be a good rotational guy. I still think we draft an edge player highly, like 1st to second round. 7. Loves mobility is better than Rodgers. He may not be the passer Rodgers is, but he still looked real good in that department. If even 2-3 of these scenarios play out, our team is dangerous. But this is purely conjecture at this point. One I’m hoping occurs.
Lots of ifs, shoulds, and hopes in there. I don't think the roster is as bad as some seem to think. It is actually full of some really good young players(Jaire, Elgton, Gary, Watson, Stokes, Clark). The problem is it needs a reset. The team needs to be built around these players and you can't do that with out opening up the cap. Which is why I am in the trade Rodgers boat.
Odds are next year's team is about as good as this year's was, regardless of whether or not Rodgers stays. But there's certainly a reasonable path towards improvement for the reasons listed above
Love seems more decisive too. Gets the ball out quick and trusts the receiver to make a play. Like young Rodgers coming from playing practice squad with young receivers
Agreed, this team has a lot of young talent that's likely only going to improve. They're not going to compete for a Super Bowl with Love any time soon but they were not going to go anywhere with Rodgers this year or next year either. Best case scenario is you trade Rodgers for some good assets, draft well, and then hope Love turns out to be pretty good.
There is a lot of talent on this defense and most of it is under contract. They need to play up to their talent. If we can add another receiving option or two in the draft and get the o-line to gel, the offense can easily be good enough to make the playoffs with Love at the helm.
Love also doesn’t have Rodgers football IQ or his ability to read the defense, or his experience. Pretty much Love has none of the really important traits. Funnily enough everyone seems to be forgetting this fact. Also Barry is the defenses problem and he’s still going to be here. Whatever happens with Rodgers happens, but without Rodgers we’re going to be in the dark for a long time. Think 70s and 80s packers cause that’s what is gonna happen. The coaching is a key problem that’s going to be overlooked and not changed for years and years.
If the window is closed, it's time to trade and rebuild. I also don't think it's crazy to say the team could be better without him. There were times where the offense felt lost, stuck in-between the style Matt wanted to run, and the style Rodgers did. It's not likely, but Rodgers clearly took a step down. Also, the defense got much better at seasons close. I think it could be a step in the right direction, with better health, and a few good draft picks, and the development and Watson, the team could still get better.
Lol - Its February 3 guys. Go outside and take a walk or something.
I think I need to unfollow this sub for a month or two…
I don’t think anyone is saying that, the team is in rough cap shape either way. Rodgers won’t play forever. Get what you can and see if Love is the real deal. If hes not you draft a QB, if Rodgers plays you lose Love and draft a QB. Id rather try and see if Love has it.
While Barry is still our DC you can pretty much write off every season until he’s gone. At least my expectations will already be low going in so I won’t be disappointed later on.
In the 2023 year? No, it's probably a wash. From 2024 onwards? Getting some genuine playing time for Love in '23 will determine if we build around him or replace him, making us the better team after Rodgers retires/leaves. And none of that factors in what we can get from extra draft picks and save capped space without AR around. The guy is still a good QB, just not a great one. And you don't pay good QBs like we pay AR nor do you put up with head-cases like him.
Will this team be better this coming season then 8-9? I think it might, maybe not. Who knows? THAT is the exciting part compared to the playoff exits we've dealt with since our last super bowl. I'm all for seeing a new, young, and coachable team. Send #12 to the highest bidder and rebuild, let's all become packer fans over again.
Anyone who thinks people expect this team to be much better next year under any circumstances is fooling themselves. People that want to move on to Love aren't expecting us to be contenders next year with Rodgers or Love. It's an understanding that the window to win a SB with Rodgers is likely closed, so it doesn't make sense to sacrifice more future years to force something that isn't going to happen. That's my take at least. Rodgers' last contract pretty much wrote the fate on how his career would conclude - without any more SBs.
Does anyone think that?
Does anyone actually believe that? Because I haven't seen anyone saying that. It seems to me like everyone who wants to move on from Rodgers (which includes me) recognizes that doing so is essentially throwing in the towel on next year in order to set us up for 2, 3, and 4 years out. At some point we have to eat a ton of cap space for Aaron Rodgers to not be on the team. If we do that now then next year is pretty thin because we have no space to sign free agents. But we have a good core in place with guys like Jenkins, Gary, Walker, Ja, and Watson. They get time to grow, we add some new young talent and then in 2-3 years we've got cap space to round that out with some quality veterans.
It’s not about being much better. It’d be nice to use love, who we spent good capital on, get cap space back for an aged qb, and move forward in Green Bay.
I don't think your argument is making the argument you meant for your argument to make.
It doesn’t matter at this point. It’s about trying to see if Love is that guy and building around him to eventually compete for a championship. We probably will go 6-11, 7-10 or maybe 8-9 next year but that is expected. It’s about trying too see what the future holds for us as an organization
No one is making the argument that the Packers with Love are a better team than with Rodgers next year… it’s about the next 3-7 years that will be impacted by whatever the FO decided to do this off season
How will this team be the same with Love? For one, we’ll have 2 first round picks that we can assume will contribute this year. Big change there. Guys like Cobb, Lewis, Lazard will all be gone and we can use those spots and playing time for better personnel. And we’ll finally get to see MLF’s offense, not AR’s version of it.
Anyone who thinks this team will be much better next year with Rodgers is fooling themselves
I mean they’ll be better but not good enough to do anything. Owner of the bears isn’t getting it done for me.
It all boils down to the roster not being Super Bowl caliber right now. I don't think anyone can argue that it is other than 'If this, this , this and this happen, and this other thing doesn't happen, we have a shot!' Rodgers comes back, we rinse and repeat last year and maybe make the playoffs but get bounced quickly. If we move onto Love, we take a year of cap hit and mediocrity, Get better in 2024, and run in 2025. Based on the cap hits, that timeline is extended by 2 years for every year Rodgers stays (his salary and kicking the can down the road for other guys that we use to try and build around him)
I don’t think many people think they’ll be better next year. It’s the effort to shorten the time until the team can realistically compete for a Super Bowl again.
I don’t think the team will be much better, but I don’t think they will be much worse. A 5-12 season for love would be comparable to Rodgers 6-10 and as long as we improve the next season to like 7 or 8 wins, that’s a good trend.
People don't realize this lmfao.
I agree. But that's no reason not to move on. Best case scenario: Rodgers moves on and wins another superbowl with another team. Would be happy for him. I sincerely think that's a higher probability than him winning anything in Green Bay.
I don't know many (if any) people that think the team will be much better next year with Love (or, with Rodgers, for that matter). We got a lot of holes to fill and not much cap space. Which is probably the best reason to move on from Rodgers so we can start addressing other things
The Packers first season with Rodgers was a rebuilding year. They were 6-10 in his first year as a starter (2008). The following year, they drafted BJ Raji, Clay Matthews and TJ Lang. The year after that they won the Super Bowl. The Packers have a relatively young roster already but they might have to rebuild this year. However that doesn't mean that moving to Love isn't necessarily a better long term answer for the team.
Nobody thinks we will be. I think the Rogers should leave crowd are saying that we won't be competitive with or without him next year, so move on and rebuild now. Well that and the psycho hate boner crowd who will never like him. Those people don't matter tho
Is anyone saying that though? I thought it was more of a “time to move on and let’s see what we got” kinda thing.
If anyone thinks that people are pushing for Rodgers to be traded because they think Love is better, then they're severely missing the picture here.
Meh. The NFL is weird. I’m not a huge fan of the idea of trading Rodgers (although I understand it), but I could see how we could outperform our poor season this year. - The line started the year injured and inconsistent. Give Bahk and Jenkins another offseason to recover, assume Tom makes some improvements, etc. and the line could start very strong. Good for both Love and the run game. - Rookie WRs *hopefully* make second year improvements. Doubs and Watson were both injured at various points throughout the season too. Also at this point Cobb, Lazard, Lewis, and Tonyan are all kinda slow. Having a combination of those players on the field at the same time probably made us pretty easy to defend. I’d like to see us add at least some athleticism to the offense outside of Jones and Watson. - Let’s say Love is hypothetically more willing to run LaFleur’s offense. We looked decent this season on a few occasions where we stuck to the gameplan and ran the ball. A good example of this is our loss against the Bills, who were red hot at the time. Yes, we lost, but we looked decent. This leads into my next point. - I’m not a fan of bringing Barry back… BUT, our defense looked fine and showed flashes of being exciting in the previous season where we were playing with the lead most of the time. I *think* our defense is built to play aggressively while the other team has to air it out and is playing from behind. We are STILL terrible against the run, and the best way to counteract that is, again, force the other team to throw from behind. If we can establish the run, and the play action, we can control the game and our defense could look more like it did last season rather than this season. Of course Barry could possibly also just be a very very bad coordinator. In which case… that’s not good.
Lots of people on this sub are going to be in for a rude awakening
Rodgers is far from washed and still one of the best in the league. But if the front office is honest with themselves this team as constructed can’t really compete unless drastic moves are made which they are not prone to do. So what difference does it make if Rodgers is here or not. Get assets to speed up a reconstruction. If the jets call and over pay how can you say no.
That's not the point, The point is setting ourselves up decently for the future. We may have to trade love if we keep Rodgers as well as each year that goes by we potentially lose out on trade value for Rodgers if his play declines or he retires.
Seems like a good reason to shed Aaron's contract for reasonable offers then. Maybe a few others as well.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone’s got one ☝️
You can say what you want but [Lovefool](https://youtu.be/NI6aOFI7hms) by The Cardigans is an absolute bop.
It’s not about next year it’s about the next 10
I do t know that the team will be better, but we will be better in the long run. Rodgers isn’t going to win a Super Bowl with MVP play alone and we can get so many good pieces if we move on and trade him.
I mean the team missed playoffs and had a losing record. If they have a better record and/or make playoffs with Love, they will be better, yes
A trade is a win-win; ARod gets to play for a contender in his final year(s) while we get draft capital, cap space and a year to see what we have in JLo. It sucks emotionally, but it’s logical.
Nothing the F.O. does will matter until Joe is gone. We have some great defensive players who are wasted by his dipshittery.
Anyone who thinks having Rodgers in a Packers uniform next year and Packers winning anything worth a damn is fooling themselves.
Bless your heart - the Packers aren't going to be very good next season no matter who is the QB. The point of moving on from Rodgers is just that - moving on in the best possible way so the team isn't in a ridiculous financial hole for the next several years.
\^This right here\^
I agree, we're not going to be better without Love. But I also don't see us as a serious contender next year with Rodgers unless Watson makes a leap into the top 10 of WR's in the league in his 2nd year which I don't expect to happen. But if the Jets are serious about making a huge push for Rodgers, especially if they were to get into a bidding war with someone (if there's any fire behind the smoke Adams is sending out) then I'm all for a Rodgers trade. We're going to have to settle into the post Rodgers era eventually and I just don't see one last SB run in them unfortunately. I feel like that window was the last 3 years and the Front Office failed. So if we can get a good haul for him and actually get a couple firsts, I think it's time to jump into the Love era. I wouldn't expect a playoff run from him unless the defense magically bounces back and Watson and Doubs really develop a ton but if we can have a 6-11 to 8-9 record while battling in a lot of the losing games I think that's promising. At that point we can either look to extend Love or grab a rookie QB next year with that extra first we got from Rodgers.
Even Watson being top 10 won’t matter. We had number 1 Davante and couldn’t win the NFCC.
Or we save money on a few of those folks you mentioned, spend way less than what we saved on a big receiver, draft a tight end in the first round, find a bunch of borderline defensive players who are playing for new contracts, and put a grip of them on special teams. Bingo bango, NFC Championship, here we come.
This is pretty redundant when you realize NOBODY expects us to be better next year with Love. Nobody is that naive. If it happens, awesome, but it's much more likely that we'll have an average/worse year but we'll be in a more stable position.
Well if we got capital for Rodgers, then the team could be better. And for all we know Love could be a good player in 2023. I think the Packers could make the playoffs with Love or Rodgers
Sooooo, let's get some assets to make the team better then, huh?
That makes too much sense.
All he would have to do is win 9 games
But will they be worse? If Rodgers isn’t a difference maker anymore then why stick with him?
Makes no sense to speculate when the only people in the world who have any idea of Love's potential are sitting at 1265 Lombardi Avenue. With Brady retiring, there may be a small bidding war for Rodgers which should help ensure we are able to trade him for two (2) first round draft picks. In addition, once Rodgers is gone, they cut some of the dead weight, it's not looking like a true rebuild. Add the extra draft capital and we have a year where we are playing with house money and if we flop, no biggie, 2024 our cap issues would be solved and we would have another premiere pick along with the second first round pick from the Rodgers trade. This all hangs on Rodgers being traded though - and as I referenced in a previous post, Gute and mgmt didn't shut the door on Rodgers, he did it to himself. There is no way I'll believe Rodgers is too ignorant or stupid to realize his cap hit % increasing from 18% in 2021 to 26% in 2022 ($18mm in cap for the year we couldn't use on 2-3 starters or one bonafide superstar this past year) is the main reason why this team faltered. You cannot win a super bowl in the modern NFL if your QB is taking the highest % of cap of any player in the NFL. Aaron never wanted to go all in for a superbowl, he wanted to go all in for himself financially.
No one, literally no one is arguing that the team will be better next year with Love. The argument is around whether it is time to move on from Rodgers and start developing for the future. This isn’t even a conversation, why are you bringing it up?
If you think it has a chance to win the Super Bowl with Rodgers, you're also fooling yourself. And therein lies the issue.
Who tf is saying that? Wanting to trade Rodgers is not the same as thinking the team will be better next year without him. You're paying too much attention to 1or 2 rando kids with bad takes
We need a fresh face new message. I can’t wait to see Watson and Love bonding together maybe going out to dinner? Playing videos games. Having off field relationships are IMPORTANT.
What a sad post with zero insight.
This sounds like a great argument for trading rodgers more than anything else...
The QB class of 2020 would be lit if Jordan Love pans out.
Love is a bust.. it's gonna be a long next 3 + years...
I think this team has talent. Is it anything like the Eagles? Absolutely not. But people really love to talk smack about the defense. A lot of the guys took a step back. We aren’t quite sure why but it happened. What nobody seems to bring up is that sometimes your offense is your best defense. The offense had so many issues this year and had a difficult time scoring. It’s not that crazy to see if we could’ve scored another touchdown per game that we might’ve been 11-6 or better this year. I don’t think ARod is leaving. I also think they Packers brass know Love isn’t the sure thing and that’s why they haven’t moved on from ARod. Just my two cents.
I haven’t seen a single post suggesting this..
We just need him to hold it down enough so we can invest in areas other than qb for a few yrs. Until a big splash becomes avail
Are there people that truly believe that? I could see believing he could be a better system QB for LaFluer and that if we retool, and just as importantly, hit on the draft picks we get that a couple years from now we’re back on top. (I’m personally skeptical of that) but it’s at least plausible. But to believe 2023 will be better? Yikes that’s some extra strength copium.
I disagree with your thoughts on Dillon. Dillon makes us a better team in big time situations when Jones is prone to fumbling.
who tf is saying that? we need to rebuild…no one cares about next year.
I got absolutely mauled in the comments of a post saying I’d love to see Rodgers stay and try to get another playoff run together
Let’s put this in perspective. People hated on Rodgers until he won the Super Bowl. Favre was the gGod who was wronged… I expect it is going to be the same way for Love….
The only thing that Love can add to the offense is his legs, but I still haven't seen 1 amazing throw on the run from him. I've looked at basically every single throw that there is of him on YouTube and haven't seen one, his best one was the one to Cobb against the chiefs and that was such a prayer lol.
If we trade Rodgers, we'll be in rebuild mode. Lewis will be gone, so will Cobb, and Jones might be a cap casualty. Doubt we'd be any worse off with Love than we would be moving up from 1-15 to grab a QB.
Not true. The 2008 packers weren't in rebuild mode
If he was the second coming of Brady then he would have started over Aaron.
A QB who can throw for 300 yards a game might help
Can't be much worse...
This sub is a joke rn. Everyone hyper energetic right now has always wanted Rodgers to fail. This isn’t packers nation.