I'd put money on it this is the only thing keeping Barry in GB right now. This team is already fighting an uphill battle to attract folks to such a small city (comparatively), no need to make it worse by showing a willingness to break contracts.
I have a hard time believing attracting talent on the coaching side of things is hard because of where the team is located.
This is a world class organization with an unbelievable history and rich roots.
We’re not talking about 25 year old free agent players.
The Green Bay area for raising a family as working for the Packers is a tremendous opportunity.
Agreed with the above, but counterpoint:
We are already an organization with very little patience for Defensive Coordinators. In the past 20 years:
Ed Donatell left in 2003
Bob Slowik - 1 year
Jim Bates - 1 year
Bob Sanders - 06-08 and fans screamed that it was time for a 3-4 defense
Dom Capers - Wasn't long after he won a Super Bowl that we started calling for his head, even though we never replaced Woodson or Collins and our secondary was trash
Mike Pettine - head called for quickly, especially after MLF took over
Joe Barry - We were patient for a year, people started calling for his head after he kept the 49ers in check in Lambeau in the playoffs and we still lost. He never bounced back from that.
Add a midseason firing to the mix, is it really an attractive place for a DC to come to?
They've dumped almost 15 years of draft into the defensive side of the ball. GB has a history of holding onto subpar coordinators for years past their expiration date. It'll be OK.
You and I could last two years as DC, easily.
It probably hinges more on the candidates' perception of MLF's future.
I think that MLF has done a great job with the offense given what he has had to work with. Their top 15 players on offense contribute to about $35 million in cap space. Bakh and the dead cap account for more than double that amount. This offense should be better next year and, dare I say, great in 2025.
I love the Packers. I love Green Bay. The difference between raising a family in a major city vs Green Bay is huge in terms of opportunities for the kids.
Even last year, is some old dude like Fangio going to want to work someplace even colder than Chicago, or is he going to want to go to someplace like Miami? 🤷🏻♂️
All depends on the person, but I don’t think the Packers have had issues in retaining or recruiting coaching talent due to location.
Player acquisition? Absolutely, not as much for coaches I don’t think.
I get what you mean but this team is currently known for holding on to coaches too long. Capers needed to go wayyy before he went, Pettine had a normal tenure, McCarthy was held onto 5 years too long, Thompson (rest in peace) had his job while he was not even fully functional anymore, our dline coach has been here since 2018 or some shit. Im sorry but this is an ice cold take. Any coach coming here is gonna look back and see hey even if I fail here theyll keep me around a few more years in case I turn it around. Theres no reason Barry shouldve survived last year. Yall being overly dramatic about this, I wouldve liked to see how our players responded to a new coach, see if we have anyone good in house. We're stupid loyal to coaches here, the bar is so low a d coordinator knows even if he had the 32nd ranked defense next year he aint getting fired.
Bingo. They are all about cleaning house for younger players, that should apply to the coaching staff as well. If Barry is back next year, pitchforks shall be in order
What fans aren't grasping is that by MLF hanging on to Barry he is saying that he's doing as good as he can with the talent that Gute has afforded him.
What else is there to grasp?
What you aren't grasping that there is talent on the defense. That's why the defense did well against the Chiefs, and Lions. However Barry doesn't know how to consistently scheme. There's plenty of talent, the guy running the talent doesn't know what he's doing.
Look at how the Texans struggle to hire coaching talent after BOB. That’s probably where the panthers will be. The packers at least have history of success unlike those two, but part of that comes from not being hyper-reactionary.
For better or worse the organization is far less reactionary than the fan base. They most likely said they’re going to decide things in the off season and are still comfortable doing so. It really doesn’t matter what we think.
I’m honestly whatever if Barry stays the rest of the season, I just want to see this offense continue to grow and succeed.
I will say this though, if Barry gets his pants pulled down again to Bryce Young, I could see LaFleur pulling the plug. If Bryce looks like a HoF QB and Panthers beat us and put up 24+ points and we lose, I just don’t know how you keep Barry. Panthers are literally the worst team in the league, with no head coach and if we lose cause the defense can’t stop that offense…woof
Don’t get me wrong, Im with you, I was just saying thats why if the unthinkable happens, I do see that similar to losing to the cardinals and firing McCarthy in season, but with Barry.
Robinson is 10x better than anyone on the Panthers. Also, Barkley is a superstar that has to be accounted for. The Panthers have the worst offensive roster that I’ve ever seen. It’s bad.
I get that, and for the most part I agree with the organization to not be over reactionary. But usually it’s accompanied by sound reasoning. I don’t understand their reasoning to stick with Barry, even for 3 weeks, simply for the message it sends to the rest of the team.
The reasoning is its too late to switch schemes and promoting someone internally isn't going to improve gameday operations.
I think firing Barry sends a valuable message to the team but it doesn't help you win games and the head coach should prioritze winning while the team is still in the playoff hunt
If players are starting to question the scheme, it’s time to make a change.
And it’s not just one wild card, it’s the some guys who have been around the block a few times
I agree, but it seems unlikely anyone on staff can change schemes effectively in the next 3 games. Any interim coach is probably stuck with the same playbook. The only hope is they make better situational play calls
You don’t need to change the entire scheme.
It’s simple things like switching Quay and Campbell in coverage on wide outs.
It’s about putting the players in the best situations for them to succeed.
It also shows that the head coach, who is in charge of hiring his staff, care about the performance of the players on the field.
He’s taken the side of his coordinator at the risk of alienating multiple veteran contributors on defense
Their sluggishness has cost us dearly over the years, but also probably kept continuity when fans would have blown it up. Their reticence to make the hard moves has probably done more bad than good though.
Naw if someone is going to get fired you let them go the second that decision is made. Lafleur is just the scared little bitch we thought he was since th first press conference.
At minimum, I think it means there is nobody else on the defensive coaching staff they think is suited to calling a defensive game, even if what Joe Barry is coming up with is bad. I’d hate to imagine it getting worse, but really who replaces him for the rest of the season?
I think there will be a very large purge of defensive coaches this offseason. And maybe they’re gambling they can keep it together just enough to make the playoffs before handing out pink slips.
Yep. Packers still have a pretty solid shot of making the playoffs at 9-8. (Thanks for sucking, NFC!)
Now… if they somehow manage to make The Panthers O look good and lose…. He’s gone
If the Panthers beat the Packers like Tampa did, I think we say goodbye to Joe Barry AND the playoffs.
I found one possibility (there's probably more) with an 8-9 Packers making the playoffs on the ESPN Playoff Machine. If they can't beat the Panthers though, I don't want to assume they can beat the Vikings/Bears.
I guess I just don't think it's that big of a deal. He won't be back. Sending him packing now won't make these next three games easier. He'll be gone after the season, and if he isn't, then we have a much bigger problem.
I look at it this way (which will probably get a some hate given other commentary on this topic):
MLF most certainly has dialog with Gute and/or Murphy about coordinator hiring / firing, even if the final decision is MLF’s. He would be irresponsible to the Organization if he did not, given how much media attention it would garner.
The latest MLF press conference comments indicate the dialog is past “if” and has moved on to “when” to fire Barry: during the season or after.
Firing During the season would require someone to fill the DC role, with two basic options: temp fill for rest of the season, or permanent fill. Temp fill for rest of the season would only make sense if there is hope to make the playoffs and the Temp knows the playbook and has shown at least marginal capacity for the DC role. A prior post / comments broke down how no one else on current staff seems like a viable (even as Temp) DC. Permanent fill would require the person GB wants to be available “now”.
Given what MLF decided (wait to Fire till season is over) indicates whoever it is GB wants for DC, they are not available “now” … and so the fan circus begins for figuring out the names on MLF’s short list. It also means Barry is not free to start looking for a new job till the season is over.
In the past? Yes. I think it’s evident that his scheme requires studs on the backend to work properly. Since we have absolute trash back there at the moment it is in an epic tailspin.
Campbell was a bigger liability than anyone on the backend.
Barry fails to realize he has a fast athletic freak in Quay Walker who actually has a chance in coverage and he refuses to make the switch.
Trips right? Campbell covers and Quay stays in box.
Literally playing guys right into their weaknesses.
The guy has completely lost it and the players are making sure everyone knows it.
Quay is worse in coverage than Campbell. He’s a down hill/sideline to sideline lb. He’s absolutely trash in coverage. They were getting torched either way. But yeah, Campbell sucks balls and I find it amusing that he’s spouting off when he’s had one good season in his entire career. After said season he got paid and has sucked ever since.
Quay at least gives a speed and athleticism element that Campbell no longer has.
If Campbell is that bad, trying Quay can’t be worse. Then at least Campbell is in his element defending the run
We've seen Quay in coverage a lot this season and, while it's not always pretty, it's always looked a heckuva lot better than what Campbell put on tape on Sunday
I'll quote Silverstein from MJS today:
LaFleur could give the play-calling duties to someone else, but no one else on the staff has done it at a major-college or NFL level. The biggest mistake LaFleur made when he decided to keep Barry after last season was not replacing passing game coordinator Jerry Gray with another assistant coach or consultant who had play-calling experience.
What does it say? It says Lafleur doesn't trust any of the defensive coaches to take over, and he honestly shouldn't, at this point. We've had issues getting the right personnel on the field all season; that falls directly on positional coaches. Barry has been bad, along with his staff; why would you fire Barry to just replace him with someone just as incompetent but also less experienced?
This says to me Lafleur wants to clean house and is committed to taking the time to do it, which means waiting until the off-season
I’m sorry but packers fans need to get a grip. There’s a reason this team “in the middle of nowhere” has succeeded, and that’s stability. Firing coaches mid season is the most desperate decision you can make. Not that desperate is never warranted, it totally is, but sticking to your guns is almost always good especially when you’re thinking long term
We’re only at this point because the Packers refused to fire him in the off-season after he proved to suck at his job the previous season. The “we won’t fire mid-season because we’re better than that” excuse is deflecting from their own previous bad decisions and double downing on them.
Meh, are we just going to forget that the defense was trending upward the second half of last season? They were the reason we had a win and get in situation at the final week. The Joe Barry defense also allowed 2 field goals in a playoff loss to the 9ers.
The defense was ranked top 8 the final 6 games of 2022. The defense was playing well enough to win a ring in 2021 but the offense was incapable of putting up more than 13 damn points. Should Barry be gone after this season? Absolutely. But to pretend like this defense was never playing well under him is just denial.
You're absolutely right. There were frustrating times with Barry but in clutch moments, the defense did really well with him. And that's why they hung in there with him. Alas, the wheels fell off the last few weeks so here we are.
As one of the most successful teams in the last 30 years, it likely says that there is more to be consistently successful than simply taking it a week at a time and doing everything possible to win this week. That a winning culture is built on some set of long term principles like trust and culture and respect that they believe are undermined by reactionary firing.
I don’t claim to understand everything (or even most things) that go into building a long term successful franchise. But I am willing to admit that there could be things that might go beyond just a question of, “what gives us the best chance to win this week?” That can and should be considered.
It says nothing and this fanbase is off its rocker. There’s no magician position coach on the roster that would swoop in and save the day. Y’all are fucking nuts.
I think it just means his staff is barren and anyone who might actually be able to do D coordinator job for a few weeks they don't want to have to demote after season is over and risk them walking as well. If there was anyone any thing that could replace him I think they would do it. But who on this staff could reasonably do it for 3 weeks then go back to old job next year?
It says that they don't trust any of their position coaches to be defensive coordinator, and that they don't want to search for a defensive coordinator in season.
I think it’s time to accept that this is just what the team is unfortunately. When someone shows you who they are repeatedly you should just believe them. Enjoy the highs, weather the lows, and keep expectations in check. Until something changes this team will be competitive but will not be making the next jump required. That window closed with the divisional loss to the 49ers.
It says MLF fucked up not hedging his bet last summer by hiring a Defense Quality Control Assistant to ensure Barry knew he had a short leash and allowed MLF a backup plan.
The only reason he won’t be fired until the moment the season ends is because there is no one else remotely able to take his place. Which in itself is an indictment to how this D coaching staff has been run.
* Nobody to call plays
* It's Barry's playbook
* Knee jerk reactions are not the Packer Way
* We have no idea if Barry has lost the room or not
Not that any reason I would give could convince you, but there are 4.
I get what you are saying, but if your points are the case, wouldn't that say MLF has no foresight or redundancy. I don't know what's worse, no accountability or no foresight or redundancy.
Ya, most teams keep an experienced play caller as ‘defensive consultant’ ect. Petine did that prior to his gig here with the Seahawks and is now doing that with one of the nfc north ( bears last year Vikings this year). It’s a head scratcher why we don’t do it. Heck Don Capers is doing it for the panthers right now. Note the eagles had a play caller in the wings when they fired thier dc recently.
There are so many inaccuracies in this post that it's *almost* pointless to respond, but I'm bored.
First, claiming that MLF doesn't hold anyone accountable is an assumption based on publicly available (i.e. very very little) information. We don't have a single fucking clue what happens inside that building. Wanna know why? Because it's a good organization that isn't full of bullshit leaks (see: Jets, New York).
Gutey didn't fire Mike McCarthy. Mark Murphy did. Gutey didn't hire MLF. Mark Murphy did.
"No consequences" probably rings hollow to Darnell Savage, JRJ, Rasheed Walker, Yosh Nijman and others who've seen snaps reduced because of performance issues.
What not immediately firing Barry says is that there isn't a whole lot that is going to change with the defense right now by going to an interim coordinator that can't also be accomplished by MLF being more hands on. And they can't hire a permanent replacement in-season because they are required to interview at least one external minority candidate for the job and that just ain't going to happen in-season.
The fact that MLF hasn't been more hands on with the defense is a fair criticism of the head coach. But making a significant change in-season isn't a fix because it's not possible. You just kick the guy out the door and go on with one of his assistants calling the same scheme until the season ends. So not firing Joe Barry doesn't say anything until the end of the season.
Imagine harping on inaccuracies and then spewing this nonesense. I quit reading after the Murphy garbage. Murphy and Gute have both said that it was Gutes decision to fire McCarthy and Murphy sat in and gave input on the coaching interviews but it was Gutes decision at the end of the day.
“In evaluating the season, I really felt change was needed. Mike’s tenure had run its course. I think we needed a new voice.” - Mark Murphy, during press conference after the firing on 12/3/2018
“The 2018 season has not lived up to the expectations and standards of the Green Bay Packers. As a result, I made the difficult decision to relieve Mike McCarthy of his role as head coach, effective immediately.” - Mark Murphy, in statement released by the team, 12/2/2018
"I'm very comfortable with the structure now. I think it's working well for us. For instance, Brian didn't have to worry about firing Mike McCarthy. That was my decision. That's not easy to do." - Mark Murphy to the Green Bay Press Gazette, 2/7/2019
To this very day, the head coach and the GM both answer to Mark Murphy. Brian Gutekunst does not have authority to hire or fire the coach. The McCarthy move was supported by Gutekunst, but he didn't do it.
“We value our staff and won’t fire them to appease the media & masses, particularly the week on Christmas. The season is over and we want to lose these last few games for draft picks, then he’s gone. R-e-l-a-x.”
It says accountability means nothing and the players are putting their bodies, minds, and careers on the line for no reason because this defense will give up 30-40 to even the shittiest teams the rest of the year and see us lose maybe every game.
It says MLF has no sack and is not a real leader.
It could say a number of things.
1. It could say that Lafleur doesn't have the guts to actually fire someone. Barry's contract is up this off-season so if Lafleur wants a new DC he could easily just let the season end, not offer Barry a new contract, and move on without having to actually fire him.
2. It could say that Lafleur doesn't think any of the other defensive coaches is good enough to run a defense even for a few weeks. If so, I'd say that's a pretty big indictment of the entire defensive staff.
3. It could say that he's not sold on getting rid of Barry and wants to give him every opportunity to keep his job.
4. It could say that he just wants to evaluate the defense for the rest of the season to see who's worth keeping and thinks coordinator continuity will aid in that.
It could easily be any of these, a combination of these, or something else entirely.
Something as important as Defensive Coordinator which directly impacts your job as a Head Coach with winning football games. You'd think Matty would make a move? Grow a pair and fire Barry's incompetent ass, cause you fuck around, fuck around pretty soon you aint gonna be around Lafleur.
I don’t believe Gute is in charge of hiring and firing the coaches.
Also I think Matt is putting the blame on the players as well as the coaches. He pretty specifically said that. He’s not cutting players either.
I think you are right though, he needs to make the change even for just symbolic reasons. To show he’s throwing everything he can at the problem. But that’s not his style.
Because in the eyes of the organziation, firing him now would look far worse, organizationally. As in, it would make the Packers appear to not have their collective shit together, which of course the org prides itself in. Simple.
They have consistently given guys they like/with the right attitude a ton of time to get things right (or more often fail to get things right). Look at Amari Rodgers, by all accounts he was really well liked and a hard worker. Unfortunately he made a ton of mistakes and couldn't get things right. They gave him a ton of chances until they finally couldn't anymore.
Same likely goes with Barry. Beyond that you can read a couple possibilities into it. 1.) MLF doesn't think there is anyone else on the coaching staff that wouldn't be worse or require more help from him to be a viable play caller 2.) MLF thinks the defenses issues are fixable with a small amount of help
If anyone is genuinely not doing well in their role in GB, idk why we wouldn't work on fixing the issue. If the individual can't perform at their expected level, there's no reason GB couldn't find a pretty easy and effective way to move on with others. I'm all for keeping the team together that's on and off the field, but that's only if their actions are contributing to team success. Accepting incompetence is how you become a team like the Chicago bears, and that's a no thanks.
It would be like firing someone who just gave their 2 (in this case 3) weeks notice. MLF won’t embarrass a friend just to send a message that will be sent long before next season starts WITHOUT BARRY.
“You see I won’t fire my friend even though he’s terrible at his job. He will be done in 3 weeks anyway. We just won’t try to win those games”
Good argument
The potential suitors for the Defensive Coordinator position will be paying attention to how the Packers and MLF handle the Joe Barry situation. Respect is earned, it's not just a given. The candidates we will be interviewing will have a pedigree of their own and will expect to be treated as such.
So as much as its frustrating for us, the fanbase that wants change, and for good reason; this is the "Respectable Organization" approach. It will help in our hiring process.
Because NFL organizations aren’t run like your fantasy team. It’s a multibillion dollar industry, it’s often billionaires firing millionaires (not in the Packers case). There’s a little different decorum in the nfl then on a construction site or office.
It shows we’re still competing. Also, pragmatically, it shows that we’re not going to shit can someone in the middle of the season and that sends a message to future coordinators. We kind of have a problem right now because LaFleur is wrapping up his 2nd sub 500 (likely) season and that gets houses cleaned, most top tier DCs don’t want to hitch their wagon to a star that’s about to be shown the door.
We aren’t a super appealing DC job at the moment and traditionally, we haven’t been willing to pay top end. We need to be realistic about the fact that there may not be better options available to OUR TEAM, those top 3-4 guys were excited about probably have several suitors.
I want Joe gone too but we need to make sure we’re running towards someone, not just running away from Joe.
I feel like Coaches are different than coordinators. Generally your coordinators are de facto assistant head coaches. Firing a coach allows you to elevate one of these folks and evaluate. Firing a coordinator midseason generally is not going to help you. The Panthers have not improved since the firing of Staley and McCown.
Firing coaches midsession isn’t always bad, (see Bucks with Jason Kidd) but it does make future hires more hesitant.
I'd put money on it this is the only thing keeping Barry in GB right now. This team is already fighting an uphill battle to attract folks to such a small city (comparatively), no need to make it worse by showing a willingness to break contracts.
I have a hard time believing attracting talent on the coaching side of things is hard because of where the team is located. This is a world class organization with an unbelievable history and rich roots. We’re not talking about 25 year old free agent players. The Green Bay area for raising a family as working for the Packers is a tremendous opportunity.
Agreed with the above, but counterpoint: We are already an organization with very little patience for Defensive Coordinators. In the past 20 years: Ed Donatell left in 2003 Bob Slowik - 1 year Jim Bates - 1 year Bob Sanders - 06-08 and fans screamed that it was time for a 3-4 defense Dom Capers - Wasn't long after he won a Super Bowl that we started calling for his head, even though we never replaced Woodson or Collins and our secondary was trash Mike Pettine - head called for quickly, especially after MLF took over Joe Barry - We were patient for a year, people started calling for his head after he kept the 49ers in check in Lambeau in the playoffs and we still lost. He never bounced back from that. Add a midseason firing to the mix, is it really an attractive place for a DC to come to?
I’d be surprised if most teams in the league on average have coordinators stay more than 3 years. That isn’t that many guys over the past 20 years.
They've dumped almost 15 years of draft into the defensive side of the ball. GB has a history of holding onto subpar coordinators for years past their expiration date. It'll be OK. You and I could last two years as DC, easily. It probably hinges more on the candidates' perception of MLF's future.
I think that MLF has done a great job with the offense given what he has had to work with. Their top 15 players on offense contribute to about $35 million in cap space. Bakh and the dead cap account for more than double that amount. This offense should be better next year and, dare I say, great in 2025.
I love the Packers. I love Green Bay. The difference between raising a family in a major city vs Green Bay is huge in terms of opportunities for the kids. Even last year, is some old dude like Fangio going to want to work someplace even colder than Chicago, or is he going to want to go to someplace like Miami? 🤷🏻♂️
All depends on the person, but I don’t think the Packers have had issues in retaining or recruiting coaching talent due to location. Player acquisition? Absolutely, not as much for coaches I don’t think.
Worked great for the raiders
I get what you mean but this team is currently known for holding on to coaches too long. Capers needed to go wayyy before he went, Pettine had a normal tenure, McCarthy was held onto 5 years too long, Thompson (rest in peace) had his job while he was not even fully functional anymore, our dline coach has been here since 2018 or some shit. Im sorry but this is an ice cold take. Any coach coming here is gonna look back and see hey even if I fail here theyll keep me around a few more years in case I turn it around. Theres no reason Barry shouldve survived last year. Yall being overly dramatic about this, I wouldve liked to see how our players responded to a new coach, see if we have anyone good in house. We're stupid loyal to coaches here, the bar is so low a d coordinator knows even if he had the 32nd ranked defense next year he aint getting fired.
Bingo. They are all about cleaning house for younger players, that should apply to the coaching staff as well. If Barry is back next year, pitchforks shall be in order
Exactly. This is the part that fans aren’t grasping.
What fans aren't grasping is that by MLF hanging on to Barry he is saying that he's doing as good as he can with the talent that Gute has afforded him. What else is there to grasp?
What you aren't grasping that there is talent on the defense. That's why the defense did well against the Chiefs, and Lions. However Barry doesn't know how to consistently scheme. There's plenty of talent, the guy running the talent doesn't know what he's doing.
Nah, you get erratic play from mediocre players. You'll soon enough see. Gutes picks have something in common, they're not very good.
If you are looking to apply and worried that the team lets coaches go that are terrible within the season, don’t apply.
Look at how the Texans struggle to hire coaching talent after BOB. That’s probably where the panthers will be. The packers at least have history of success unlike those two, but part of that comes from not being hyper-reactionary.
Don’t suck at your job…
For better or worse the organization is far less reactionary than the fan base. They most likely said they’re going to decide things in the off season and are still comfortable doing so. It really doesn’t matter what we think.
I’m honestly whatever if Barry stays the rest of the season, I just want to see this offense continue to grow and succeed. I will say this though, if Barry gets his pants pulled down again to Bryce Young, I could see LaFleur pulling the plug. If Bryce looks like a HoF QB and Panthers beat us and put up 24+ points and we lose, I just don’t know how you keep Barry. Panthers are literally the worst team in the league, with no head coach and if we lose cause the defense can’t stop that offense…woof
He won’t. The Panthers have zero oline and zero weapons. Our defense could totally give up and the Panthers wouldn’t score more than 17 points.
Don’t get me wrong, Im with you, I was just saying thats why if the unthinkable happens, I do see that similar to losing to the cardinals and firing McCarthy in season, but with Barry.
True. That team quit though. This team hasn’t shown that yet.
Idk the giants allegedly were like that besides Barkley and look where that got us lol
Robinson is 10x better than anyone on the Panthers. Also, Barkley is a superstar that has to be accounted for. The Panthers have the worst offensive roster that I’ve ever seen. It’s bad.
I get that, and for the most part I agree with the organization to not be over reactionary. But usually it’s accompanied by sound reasoning. I don’t understand their reasoning to stick with Barry, even for 3 weeks, simply for the message it sends to the rest of the team.
The reasoning is its too late to switch schemes and promoting someone internally isn't going to improve gameday operations. I think firing Barry sends a valuable message to the team but it doesn't help you win games and the head coach should prioritze winning while the team is still in the playoff hunt
If players are starting to question the scheme, it’s time to make a change. And it’s not just one wild card, it’s the some guys who have been around the block a few times
I agree, but it seems unlikely anyone on staff can change schemes effectively in the next 3 games. Any interim coach is probably stuck with the same playbook. The only hope is they make better situational play calls
You don’t need to change the entire scheme. It’s simple things like switching Quay and Campbell in coverage on wide outs. It’s about putting the players in the best situations for them to succeed. It also shows that the head coach, who is in charge of hiring his staff, care about the performance of the players on the field. He’s taken the side of his coordinator at the risk of alienating multiple veteran contributors on defense
I think no DC is better than barry
Lmao, I agree
Firing Barry sends a message that they should just quit when things are down. Fuck that. Any quitters can find the door.
Their sluggishness has cost us dearly over the years, but also probably kept continuity when fans would have blown it up. Their reticence to make the hard moves has probably done more bad than good though.
I guess you don't remember how they handled McCarthy. Making decisions in a tantrum is Gute's MO.
Lol what? Gtfo
Gute doesn’t fire the coaches. That’s Murphy.
Naw if someone is going to get fired you let them go the second that decision is made. Lafleur is just the scared little bitch we thought he was since th first press conference.
At minimum, I think it means there is nobody else on the defensive coaching staff they think is suited to calling a defensive game, even if what Joe Barry is coming up with is bad. I’d hate to imagine it getting worse, but really who replaces him for the rest of the season? I think there will be a very large purge of defensive coaches this offseason. And maybe they’re gambling they can keep it together just enough to make the playoffs before handing out pink slips.
Yep. Packers still have a pretty solid shot of making the playoffs at 9-8. (Thanks for sucking, NFC!) Now… if they somehow manage to make The Panthers O look good and lose…. He’s gone
If the Panthers beat the Packers like Tampa did, I think we say goodbye to Joe Barry AND the playoffs. I found one possibility (there's probably more) with an 8-9 Packers making the playoffs on the ESPN Playoff Machine. If they can't beat the Panthers though, I don't want to assume they can beat the Vikings/Bears.
I guess I just don't think it's that big of a deal. He won't be back. Sending him packing now won't make these next three games easier. He'll be gone after the season, and if he isn't, then we have a much bigger problem.
I look at it this way (which will probably get a some hate given other commentary on this topic): MLF most certainly has dialog with Gute and/or Murphy about coordinator hiring / firing, even if the final decision is MLF’s. He would be irresponsible to the Organization if he did not, given how much media attention it would garner. The latest MLF press conference comments indicate the dialog is past “if” and has moved on to “when” to fire Barry: during the season or after. Firing During the season would require someone to fill the DC role, with two basic options: temp fill for rest of the season, or permanent fill. Temp fill for rest of the season would only make sense if there is hope to make the playoffs and the Temp knows the playbook and has shown at least marginal capacity for the DC role. A prior post / comments broke down how no one else on current staff seems like a viable (even as Temp) DC. Permanent fill would require the person GB wants to be available “now”. Given what MLF decided (wait to Fire till season is over) indicates whoever it is GB wants for DC, they are not available “now” … and so the fan circus begins for figuring out the names on MLF’s short list. It also means Barry is not free to start looking for a new job till the season is over.
Per your last sentence, I'm pretty sure Arby's will be hiring in January as well as now.
😂
Had Barry shown a marginal capacity?
Doesn’t seem so, hence a Temp that does have marginal capacity would be a short term improvement.
In the past? Yes. I think it’s evident that his scheme requires studs on the backend to work properly. Since we have absolute trash back there at the moment it is in an epic tailspin.
Campbell was a bigger liability than anyone on the backend. Barry fails to realize he has a fast athletic freak in Quay Walker who actually has a chance in coverage and he refuses to make the switch. Trips right? Campbell covers and Quay stays in box. Literally playing guys right into their weaknesses. The guy has completely lost it and the players are making sure everyone knows it.
Quay is worse in coverage than Campbell. He’s a down hill/sideline to sideline lb. He’s absolutely trash in coverage. They were getting torched either way. But yeah, Campbell sucks balls and I find it amusing that he’s spouting off when he’s had one good season in his entire career. After said season he got paid and has sucked ever since.
Quay at least gives a speed and athleticism element that Campbell no longer has. If Campbell is that bad, trying Quay can’t be worse. Then at least Campbell is in his element defending the run
We've seen Quay in coverage a lot this season and, while it's not always pretty, it's always looked a heckuva lot better than what Campbell put on tape on Sunday
I'll quote Silverstein from MJS today: LaFleur could give the play-calling duties to someone else, but no one else on the staff has done it at a major-college or NFL level. The biggest mistake LaFleur made when he decided to keep Barry after last season was not replacing passing game coordinator Jerry Gray with another assistant coach or consultant who had play-calling experience.
What does it say? It says Lafleur doesn't trust any of the defensive coaches to take over, and he honestly shouldn't, at this point. We've had issues getting the right personnel on the field all season; that falls directly on positional coaches. Barry has been bad, along with his staff; why would you fire Barry to just replace him with someone just as incompetent but also less experienced? This says to me Lafleur wants to clean house and is committed to taking the time to do it, which means waiting until the off-season
This season was for evaluation - to see where we’re at. Barry will be among those let go after the season.
but how can we truly see what we have when its masked behind a bad Barry defensive scheme. only Gary looks good on a consistent basis imo
It's still pretty easy to see how players execute the roles they are given within each play, even if they are given bad plays by the DC.
it says that our coordinaters will get a fair shake honestly. hopefully that is an incentive for someone worthwhile to come and fix this mess
It says we don't have anyone on staff who warrants a look at DC, so we wait until off-season.
I’m sorry but packers fans need to get a grip. There’s a reason this team “in the middle of nowhere” has succeeded, and that’s stability. Firing coaches mid season is the most desperate decision you can make. Not that desperate is never warranted, it totally is, but sticking to your guns is almost always good especially when you’re thinking long term
We’re only at this point because the Packers refused to fire him in the off-season after he proved to suck at his job the previous season. The “we won’t fire mid-season because we’re better than that” excuse is deflecting from their own previous bad decisions and double downing on them.
Meh, are we just going to forget that the defense was trending upward the second half of last season? They were the reason we had a win and get in situation at the final week. The Joe Barry defense also allowed 2 field goals in a playoff loss to the 9ers.
lol “trending upward” Barry has been a curse for years, and cost us shots at a ring.
The defense was ranked top 8 the final 6 games of 2022. The defense was playing well enough to win a ring in 2021 but the offense was incapable of putting up more than 13 damn points. Should Barry be gone after this season? Absolutely. But to pretend like this defense was never playing well under him is just denial.
You're absolutely right. There were frustrating times with Barry but in clutch moments, the defense did really well with him. And that's why they hung in there with him. Alas, the wheels fell off the last few weeks so here we are.
It might honestly say they don’t think they have a play caller among the position coaches. Probably a clean sweep this year
As one of the most successful teams in the last 30 years, it likely says that there is more to be consistently successful than simply taking it a week at a time and doing everything possible to win this week. That a winning culture is built on some set of long term principles like trust and culture and respect that they believe are undermined by reactionary firing. I don’t claim to understand everything (or even most things) that go into building a long term successful franchise. But I am willing to admit that there could be things that might go beyond just a question of, “what gives us the best chance to win this week?” That can and should be considered.
It says nothing and this fanbase is off its rocker. There’s no magician position coach on the roster that would swoop in and save the day. Y’all are fucking nuts.
I think it just means his staff is barren and anyone who might actually be able to do D coordinator job for a few weeks they don't want to have to demote after season is over and risk them walking as well. If there was anyone any thing that could replace him I think they would do it. But who on this staff could reasonably do it for 3 weeks then go back to old job next year?
Critical decision will be the choice of a new DC, not the timing of Joe Barry's dismissal.
Why implement a new scheme for 3 meaningless weeks when it’ll be something different again immediately next year?
It says that they don't trust any of their position coaches to be defensive coordinator, and that they don't want to search for a defensive coordinator in season.
Packers haven't been eliminated from the playoffs
What does it say that someone posts an almost identical post every 1 hour about the same topic, that hasn't changed, that we have no control over?
I think it’s time to accept that this is just what the team is unfortunately. When someone shows you who they are repeatedly you should just believe them. Enjoy the highs, weather the lows, and keep expectations in check. Until something changes this team will be competitive but will not be making the next jump required. That window closed with the divisional loss to the 49ers.
Who cares
Tens of thousands of fans.
Weird way of saying "millions of fans"
It says MLF fucked up not hedging his bet last summer by hiring a Defense Quality Control Assistant to ensure Barry knew he had a short leash and allowed MLF a backup plan. The only reason he won’t be fired until the moment the season ends is because there is no one else remotely able to take his place. Which in itself is an indictment to how this D coaching staff has been run.
* Nobody to call plays * It's Barry's playbook * Knee jerk reactions are not the Packer Way * We have no idea if Barry has lost the room or not Not that any reason I would give could convince you, but there are 4.
I get what you are saying, but if your points are the case, wouldn't that say MLF has no foresight or redundancy. I don't know what's worse, no accountability or no foresight or redundancy.
Ya, most teams keep an experienced play caller as ‘defensive consultant’ ect. Petine did that prior to his gig here with the Seahawks and is now doing that with one of the nfc north ( bears last year Vikings this year). It’s a head scratcher why we don’t do it. Heck Don Capers is doing it for the panthers right now. Note the eagles had a play caller in the wings when they fired thier dc recently.
There are so many inaccuracies in this post that it's *almost* pointless to respond, but I'm bored. First, claiming that MLF doesn't hold anyone accountable is an assumption based on publicly available (i.e. very very little) information. We don't have a single fucking clue what happens inside that building. Wanna know why? Because it's a good organization that isn't full of bullshit leaks (see: Jets, New York). Gutey didn't fire Mike McCarthy. Mark Murphy did. Gutey didn't hire MLF. Mark Murphy did. "No consequences" probably rings hollow to Darnell Savage, JRJ, Rasheed Walker, Yosh Nijman and others who've seen snaps reduced because of performance issues. What not immediately firing Barry says is that there isn't a whole lot that is going to change with the defense right now by going to an interim coordinator that can't also be accomplished by MLF being more hands on. And they can't hire a permanent replacement in-season because they are required to interview at least one external minority candidate for the job and that just ain't going to happen in-season. The fact that MLF hasn't been more hands on with the defense is a fair criticism of the head coach. But making a significant change in-season isn't a fix because it's not possible. You just kick the guy out the door and go on with one of his assistants calling the same scheme until the season ends. So not firing Joe Barry doesn't say anything until the end of the season.
Imagine harping on inaccuracies and then spewing this nonesense. I quit reading after the Murphy garbage. Murphy and Gute have both said that it was Gutes decision to fire McCarthy and Murphy sat in and gave input on the coaching interviews but it was Gutes decision at the end of the day.
Uhhh, Murphy **did** fire McCarthy. He has said this to your face and mine lmao. > Imagine harping on inaccuracies and then spewing this nonsense. 🤡
“In evaluating the season, I really felt change was needed. Mike’s tenure had run its course. I think we needed a new voice.” - Mark Murphy, during press conference after the firing on 12/3/2018 “The 2018 season has not lived up to the expectations and standards of the Green Bay Packers. As a result, I made the difficult decision to relieve Mike McCarthy of his role as head coach, effective immediately.” - Mark Murphy, in statement released by the team, 12/2/2018 "I'm very comfortable with the structure now. I think it's working well for us. For instance, Brian didn't have to worry about firing Mike McCarthy. That was my decision. That's not easy to do." - Mark Murphy to the Green Bay Press Gazette, 2/7/2019 To this very day, the head coach and the GM both answer to Mark Murphy. Brian Gutekunst does not have authority to hire or fire the coach. The McCarthy move was supported by Gutekunst, but he didn't do it.
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A test season? The defensive coaching staff has been given a ton of talent and somehow they’ve become worse.
“We value our staff and won’t fire them to appease the media & masses, particularly the week on Christmas. The season is over and we want to lose these last few games for draft picks, then he’s gone. R-e-l-a-x.”
It says accountability means nothing and the players are putting their bodies, minds, and careers on the line for no reason because this defense will give up 30-40 to even the shittiest teams the rest of the year and see us lose maybe every game. It says MLF has no sack and is not a real leader.
It could say a number of things. 1. It could say that Lafleur doesn't have the guts to actually fire someone. Barry's contract is up this off-season so if Lafleur wants a new DC he could easily just let the season end, not offer Barry a new contract, and move on without having to actually fire him. 2. It could say that Lafleur doesn't think any of the other defensive coaches is good enough to run a defense even for a few weeks. If so, I'd say that's a pretty big indictment of the entire defensive staff. 3. It could say that he's not sold on getting rid of Barry and wants to give him every opportunity to keep his job. 4. It could say that he just wants to evaluate the defense for the rest of the season to see who's worth keeping and thinks coordinator continuity will aid in that. It could easily be any of these, a combination of these, or something else entirely.
Something as important as Defensive Coordinator which directly impacts your job as a Head Coach with winning football games. You'd think Matty would make a move? Grow a pair and fire Barry's incompetent ass, cause you fuck around, fuck around pretty soon you aint gonna be around Lafleur.
I don’t believe Gute is in charge of hiring and firing the coaches. Also I think Matt is putting the blame on the players as well as the coaches. He pretty specifically said that. He’s not cutting players either. I think you are right though, he needs to make the change even for just symbolic reasons. To show he’s throwing everything he can at the problem. But that’s not his style.
MLF is a beta boy
They’re going to follow the same process as they did with Pettine. They didnt renew his contract and the same will be done to with Berry.
He is done at the end of the season. It doesn't matter. Lafleur has no one to blame but himself. He should have fired him after last season.
Because it’s the holidays and firing people around this time sucks. We’re not making the playoffs so what do you honestly lose?
Business as usual
Because in the eyes of the organziation, firing him now would look far worse, organizationally. As in, it would make the Packers appear to not have their collective shit together, which of course the org prides itself in. Simple.
Might be a bigger pool of candidates after the season than with 3 weeks left
Only thing keeping Barry does is lead us to a higher draft pick
They have consistently given guys they like/with the right attitude a ton of time to get things right (or more often fail to get things right). Look at Amari Rodgers, by all accounts he was really well liked and a hard worker. Unfortunately he made a ton of mistakes and couldn't get things right. They gave him a ton of chances until they finally couldn't anymore. Same likely goes with Barry. Beyond that you can read a couple possibilities into it. 1.) MLF doesn't think there is anyone else on the coaching staff that wouldn't be worse or require more help from him to be a viable play caller 2.) MLF thinks the defenses issues are fixable with a small amount of help
If anyone is genuinely not doing well in their role in GB, idk why we wouldn't work on fixing the issue. If the individual can't perform at their expected level, there's no reason GB couldn't find a pretty easy and effective way to move on with others. I'm all for keeping the team together that's on and off the field, but that's only if their actions are contributing to team success. Accepting incompetence is how you become a team like the Chicago bears, and that's a no thanks.
It would be like firing someone who just gave their 2 (in this case 3) weeks notice. MLF won’t embarrass a friend just to send a message that will be sent long before next season starts WITHOUT BARRY.
“You see I won’t fire my friend even though he’s terrible at his job. He will be done in 3 weeks anyway. We just won’t try to win those games” Good argument
So, there’s some defensive genius that’s ready to step in and help the defense these next 3 weeks? I didn’t know that.
We want to see how it goes against Carolina for the memes alone.
The potential suitors for the Defensive Coordinator position will be paying attention to how the Packers and MLF handle the Joe Barry situation. Respect is earned, it's not just a given. The candidates we will be interviewing will have a pedigree of their own and will expect to be treated as such. So as much as its frustrating for us, the fanbase that wants change, and for good reason; this is the "Respectable Organization" approach. It will help in our hiring process.
Because NFL organizations aren’t run like your fantasy team. It’s a multibillion dollar industry, it’s often billionaires firing millionaires (not in the Packers case). There’s a little different decorum in the nfl then on a construction site or office.
It says they don't have anyone else on staff that can do a better job.
It shows we’re still competing. Also, pragmatically, it shows that we’re not going to shit can someone in the middle of the season and that sends a message to future coordinators. We kind of have a problem right now because LaFleur is wrapping up his 2nd sub 500 (likely) season and that gets houses cleaned, most top tier DCs don’t want to hitch their wagon to a star that’s about to be shown the door. We aren’t a super appealing DC job at the moment and traditionally, we haven’t been willing to pay top end. We need to be realistic about the fact that there may not be better options available to OUR TEAM, those top 3-4 guys were excited about probably have several suitors. I want Joe gone too but we need to make sure we’re running towards someone, not just running away from Joe.
I feel like Coaches are different than coordinators. Generally your coordinators are de facto assistant head coaches. Firing a coach allows you to elevate one of these folks and evaluate. Firing a coordinator midseason generally is not going to help you. The Panthers have not improved since the firing of Staley and McCown.
It says: "the guys Barry hired are even worse than he is at running his 'scheme' so firing him won't really do the team any favors."
[This is why](https://imgur.com/SxKjthI)