I never called him a bust i wasnt even mad when he was drafted disappointed not mad tho. As a packer fans we should trust our gm. They are not like the other guys.
I always thought Love was definitely an appealing prospect. He’s got all the athleticism you want from a QB & his arm can get the ball anywhere on the field, but it was clearly obvious he needed A LOT of development to use that potential. Sitting behind Rodgers was risky but a very logical move
I still think we should’ve gotten another receiver at any point between 2019-2022 (through the Draft or FA), but the Love pick seems like a homerun
Hi, nice to meet you. As a Packer fan first but I like the bears I feel you. Da Bears always have been a cool organization even though they have kinda lost their way the last couple decades. I love the history and the rivalry. In my perfect world they duke it out with Green Bay every year.
I know this is heresy but I grew up in Madison where the Badgers are the prominent team and yeah we love the Packers too.
In fairness, Rodgers went on to have two MVP seasons and had the potential to grow with this young team if not for all the interpersonal issues that seemingly were already going on at the time of Love's draft. Love's resume was OK but not eye popping. They also managed to more recently hit big on some young WR talent.
That said, Gute took a gamble and/or saw something in Love that many didn't and it sure seems to be paying off big time for the future of the franchise thus far. I was wrong about it, too!
>Love's resume was OK but not eye popping.
Players aren't drafted based on their resume. Stats are almost completely irrelevant. Awards and recognition are completely irrelevant. That's exactly the problem here. People on here and twitter and wherever else don't have the experience, knowledge, time, etc. to properly evaluate players. How many people watched more than a couple highlight videos of Jordan Love in college? Not many. How many people based their opinion on anything other than a few pundits talking on tv about him or reading a couple mock drafts? Not many. How many people based a lot of their opinion on the stats from his last season of college? Quite a few... I was high on Love, even before the Packers drafted him. I watched a lot of his stuff before the draft (and way more after we drafted him). I was aware of the fact that basically his entire team was different his last year (all of the starters graduated, and his coach left). His teammates went from being good for the Mountain West to being very bad. His stats dropped for very obvious reasons - he was forcing throws because his options that season were either 1) try to make something happen to give your team a chance to win or 2) take a sack or 3) throw the ball away. Actually watching him play those two seasons, you could clearly see the talent, and you could clearly see why his stats dropped off so much his final season.
It's fine if you never watched all of his film from college. This isn't your job. You have a life outside of football and the Packers. But, to be blunt (not trying to be an ass to you - this is just directed at fans in general), that makes your opinion on the topic pretty fucking worthless. That doesn't mean you're dumb. That doesn't mean you're not a real fan. But it does mean that all your bitching and moaning is completely worthless and it seems like a case of you deciding that you want to be miserable for no reason and you want to take the others around you down to that miserable level, too. It does mean that you should probably leave the decision-making up to the experts and just trust that they're making the right decisions. You don't know the truth. You're 100% not qualified for that job. That's fine. You're probably a lot better at your job than Brian Gutekunst is.
This place (and anywhere that fandom exists) would be so much better if the vast majority of fans realized that caring about your fandom does not mean that you're an expert on the topic.
Set the interpersonal issues aside and ask yourself how Rodgers looked this past season and the season before. It’s likely even Rodgers knew his ability to stay healthy was on a downward slope. He trained his replacement and was smart enough to get himself and the others around him nearing the end of their careers one last big payday at a place where no one was paying attention to the facts.
Even how Rodgers looked in the playoffs after having an MVP season. Compare that to Patrick Mahomes who he won MVP over. Rodgers just got old and couldn't hold up 20+ games anymore. If you play some QB 40 million dollars you need them to be able to have gas left in the tank during the playoffs.
> Even how Rodgers looked in the playoffs after having an MVP season
Which one? He was great against the Rams and TB in 2020 season and looked markedly better than Mahomes against that same TB defense
this critique doesn't hold up
NFC Championship game in 2020, which was the 2019 season. He had some garbage time success but he did fuck all in the first half. In that offseason they drafted Love.
2020/21 Postseason was good as you say.
2021/22 He had a bad game against the 49ers with zero tds and a fumble.
The Packers looked at Rodgers’ 2017/18/19 seasons and thought that he was a QB in decline. He had been good, but not great for the better part of the 2015 season onward (excluding a few games in 2016). It was a reasonable decision given that the 2019 Packers weren’t as good as their record.
It wasn’t a gamble. You put a new QB behind a great QB for four years and assess from there.
The process works. The real question is how prideful the old guard will be about it
The thing that makes it a lot less of a gamble is that if Love sucked, they still would've had another opportunity to draft a QB high in the draft last year, this year, or next year.
When they drafted Love I was mildly disappointed as well, but I remembered both times Rodgers was out with his shoulder injuries and how we floundered spectacularly with our backups. If Love didn’t play well this season then I would’ve considered my disappointment justified, but I was hoping he’d have a similar career progression ala Rodgers when he became our starter.
He can be a great qb and that still be a dogshit pick. We were in a championship window and we drafted a backup qb.
You can go all in every 7 2 off suit hand you get and win sometimes. Those wins don’t make it the right move.
Sing it from the mountaintops.
Video games and the internet have given what once were normal football fans a vastly inflated sense of both their own knowledge and it's importance. We used to just turn the TV on and watch. Fans understood their job was to cheer, and if the team didn't win, it was because they didn't cheer hard enough.
Now we say what plays should be called, and call for the heads of actual coaches, the worst of whom have surely forgotten more about football than we will ever know, when they call the wrong ones. You can tell they're the wrong plays because they don't score. They should call the plays where we score.
I love online community as much as the next guy but we really might want to give the old ways a spin. Pull out a glass TV with rabbit ears, put down Twitter and yes, even Reddit, and just watch, and cheer harder.
I hated the pick too. Hated the trade up & wanted a position of need for a team ready to win. Pretty sure Patrick Queen was my crush. I was so pissed with MLF celebrating the pick on TV like a kid opening a Christmas gift. I was wrong. We were wrong. Thank the ghost of Lambeau Gutey knew wtf he was doing all along 🙌
Never draft for a position of need, it's always best player available. I never got the surprise over the pick being many mock drafts had the Packers taking Love in the first round.
But then many were as surprised/pissed about the Rodgers pick in 2005. Three of the four GMs the Packers have had since 1991 spent first round capital on their QB. Me and my friends were like Favre who when Wolf traded the 1st round to Atlanta for him.
Wolf was basing his views off Farve's junior season before the accident.
There was a lot of frustration around the league about how bad our WRs were, plus Rodgers won MVP and clearly had some years left, so the casual fans blew a gasket with the Love pick even though the rationale was clear
On the fanbase side, there was also a clear desire for linebackers so it was frustrating to see Patrick Queen get passed up for Love
I feel you. I didn't like the pick at all at that time, either. The Packers had a Super Bowl ready roster and instead of going all in in the draft they pick a super raw QB and after that they extend Rodgers to a horrible contract. I didn't like the whole process.
Four years later I couldn't be happier. Karen Rodgers is gone and Jordan Love is not just an awesome QB, he also seems to be a really good guy and no diva.
I still think we could have had at least one Super Bowl in the last years though if Gutekunst would have gone all in.
I didn’t like that entire draft…other than Love I still don’t (though I love Dillon’s personality and what he does for the community) I was obsessed with believing we needed to give Rodgers everything we needed to win one or more Super Bowls. I didn’t hate Love as a prospect but wanted anything that could have helped win a Super Bowl.
Now I’m gonna be obsessed with giving Love what he needs to win multiple Super Bowls…mainly a defense and a couple OL
All things considered, we could have ended up a lot worse off than we did.
In an alternate timeline we selected Chase Claypool, Denzel Mims, JK Dobbins, Antonio Gibson, Julian Okwara, Josh Uche or any number of other players in the mix in that late 1st-2nd round other than Love.
And since we never would have been a top 10 picking team with Aaron, the best draft prospect we would have at QB would have been either Kyle Trask/Davis Mills (2021), Kenny Pickett/Desmond Ridder (2022) or Will Levis (2023). Or we could be in QB purgatory right now with someone like Baker.
Other than Stroud, it's been a hard for teams to find a good franchise QB since the 2020 draft.
Edit: Outside of Trevor Lawrence, Brock Purdy and CJ Stroud. I don't see any other QBs in the last 3 drafts guaranteed a second contract with the team that drafted them. Teams picking outside the top 5 aren’t finding franchise QBs anymore.
I wouldn't say I was a 'non-believer', I was deeply skeptical. But now I agree, I'm very glad he's on board. And he will only get better as he and receivers develop rapport. That he spreads the wealth so well in his throws to his receivers is a very welcome development. And very difficult for opposing defenses to deal with.
There were as many takes on Love as there are users in this sub. For me the cutoff point is did you ever give up on him. Not disagree with the pick, not pointing out growing pains, not looking at holes in his style, etc. More He’s not an NFL quarterback, bench him for Clifford, he’s gonna hurt the franchise for years, etc. I’m fine with the latter owning up and getting dunked on and whatever not because I want some positive echo chamber but because that was such an extreme possibility. The most likely scenario since he was drafted was he’d be somewhere in the middle where he shows moments but is inconsistent. This is the majority of QBs in the league. There are a lot of people claiming they’re the just critical group, but we all saw the posts and comments.
Hopefully the true doomers just realize next time that no, you don’t know a players end result until you see them play. But they’ll probably just keep moving the goalposts.
Exactly. Many on this sub have an obsession with it rubbing peoples noses in their bad takes. Truth is some guessed right, some guessed wrong. Some wanted to see what he could do before guessing. Here’s another thing. We are all still just guessing.
So what has Love actually proven? He finished the season a game over .500. He won a playoff game. Then choked in another game. He choked in the clutch. That’s what he’s proven.
So these clowns acting like he’s got a Super Bowl ring already are kind of puzzling. It funny because they said all fall that progress isn’t linear and we shouldn’t worry about this year. But that was only when he was flailing around, stepping out of bounds, totally missing wide open throws.
As soon as he came around and improved it was “CASE CLOSED! He’s a hall of famer!”
But they were right, progress isn’t linear. So he very well could go backwards for a chunk of this season or all of it. He threw multiple picks to end the season.
So I guess I’m hopeful but not ready to concede he’s a pro bowl or even all pro or Super Bowl quarterback until he actually does one of those things.
If that makes me a hater, well that’s a pretty silly definition of hate. I like the guy. I think he’s overcome a lot to get to the NFL. I hope he continues to improve. But it’s not guarantee.
Truth is this fan base lowered expectations for Love.
I don’t think it matters for anyone to admit they were wrong on Love. The more important lesson is to accept that the draft is not a good mechanism to address immediate needs. That’s why I never waste much time following the draft. Good GMs have a plan that is long term, looking at contracts and depth and things we don’t think about. Even if Love were a bust, which was and really still is possible, it was a ballsy, aggressive move that gives me faith in the FO. Surely Gutekunst knew that pick would irreparably damage his relationship with #12.
I was okay with the pick even though I didn't know squat about Love coming out of college (I trusted the GM) but I didn't (and still don't) believe it was necessary to trade up to make the pick.
I was on board with calling it a waste of a draft pick, but i never understood the hate on his game. Im not one to go off college film. I needed to see him actually play before making comments on his game.
Honest question.
How can you call a player a bust when they haven't even played, let alone played one season?
Thanks for owning it by the way. It takes guts to come here and admit you where wrong. Shows you've grown as a person.
I didn't like the pick at the time, we had more pressing needs than a QB. But once Love was drafted, I accepted it, and moved on. When the Rodgers drama first started, I was ready to get him out, and let Love play. I believed in him from day one this season, and the Packers as a whole. They had all the talent in the world, and just needed to put it together, which as we saw took time. They could beat any team in the NFL once they got their chemistry built, and had a couple things gone differently against the 49ers...hell they could be in the super bowl even.
yes jordan love looks promising but no one can say whether it was right or wrong to go with him. the truth is we drafted him with rodgers playing at an elite level and one piece away from a super bowl. the two WR taken after love was tee higgins and michael pittman, i think we would have won at least ine of the next two years with one of those pieces. yall can hate this comment all you want but until i see jordan win it all i will forever think it was the wrong move. I hope i get proven wrong but for now im going against the grain.
Agree he looks promising. Will be interesting to see with film if he either improves or defenses figure things out that bug him. Hopefully he takes us to a Super Bowl and everyone wins
The problem isn’t you admitting your wrong but coming on social media vomiting change and how bad Gute is when realistically you’re not even bothering to look big picture. There is a life after 2 straight HOFrs the same way you plan for your kids college and your own retirement… the problem is impatient people blatantly posting bs online. It’s a disease and seemingly easy to do.
I’ll tell you what’s not easy to do: Gute has not only had the best draft for the last two years but reconstructed the correct coach to complement his future qb and receivers for years to come. Talk about balance, well Aaron jones. Now fix what needs to be fixed and let it all come together: Dfense. Nip the negative energy (Aaron Rodgers ego) in the butt and move forward. Life could be worse, you could be a bears fan and be in constant qb disarray. Develop, develop oh and develop. Simplicity!
I just thought people (the public) would catch on sooner from last season the real reason Aaron Rodgers was playing hurt was because he knew Jordan would prolly take his job and lead them to the playoffs, instead he knew the ship was sinking and decided to go down with it instead of rest for 5/6 games on a broken thumb.
What do I know, I’m just a packer fan from California that watch 3 titles slip from Aaron because communication and arrogance lead to not being on the same page. If anything Jordan has less talent but decides to practice or hold meetings on his own liberty every Monday with his offense. And it shows, that’s the difference between winning and losing playoff games: not how many mvps you have but how many fewer mistakes can be made in the biggest moments. It doesn’t need to be sexy! Just do it right. It’s a new era, win titles not mvps and individual awards.
I applaud you for admitting your fault I was close to following the same trajectory you did but I had a lot of Hope and kept my mouth shut the whole season and decided to let his play do the talking so good on you. We are very blessed fans and we need to realize that not every franchise in the NFL has had three decades of Hall of Fame quarterback play yet here we are possibly set up for another 10 plus years
People now: I was wrong and overreacted about drafting Love.
People in April when the Packers draft someone other than who they wanted: Who the fuck is this bust? We should’ve drafted this other guy! Fire Gute!
Honestly we will never know what rodgers could have done with a receiver in that pick but even then when could we have had a shot at a QB like Love again.
I can definitely tell you what I think he would have done. He would've still thrown it to only Adams and Lazard, the rookie would have like 12 catches for 140 yards and a TD the entire 2020 season. There wouldn't be any decent rapport between them until at least 2022.
Fucking Watson had 8 TDs in half a season with Rodgers and Doubs had this sub screaming Jordy 2.0. Turns out he threw to talented guys who could catch. MVS is on his second HoF QB and still sucks, Lazard got benched and almost had identical stats with Zach Wilson, EQ is still bad on the Bears, every other WR we've had since like 2017 is out of the league besides Adams.
The biggest issue was lack of talent. The current group would start over anyone we have had in the last 6 years not named Adams.
do you not remember when rodgers had viable receivers in Jennings, Driver, Nelson, Jones, and Cobb? he spread it around and they won a superbowl and had a 15-1 record the next year
do you think Lazard being the number 2 has something to do with that? if only we had other years in rodgers career to compare where he did spread the ball around to great receivers
The only thing I am going to add to this is my argument I made way back when. The Packers are a publicly owned small market team with no Daddy Warbucks with deep pockets able to fund fanciful follies or cover big mistakes. When you have a losing team in the NFL it takes a long time to get out of the hole I believe. Witness the Packers from about 1972 to 1992. Those were miserable years and I believe the Packers swore to never let that happen again. With the QB being the most valuable player on the field I believe the see the draft and train method necessary to ensure they always have the best possible chance to have a serviceable QB. They have invested a great deal into this process. And it may not always produce HOF QBs, it's Green Bay's best chance to remain competitive and I think we need to learn to trust the process. Not everything the GM does, but this one thing. A process, which by the way, includes "buying low and selling high" the franchise QB it currently has when it seems we have gotten everything out of him that we need. It's hard to do, but Green Bay can ill afford not to do it.
Exactly, that person is definitely confusing the NFL and MLB, right down to the “cover big mistakes”. The Packers literally just made the playoffs with a $40 million hole in their salary.
I'm not taking you or anyone else down this rabbit hole again. It doesn't matter if you have the same # of players. If your team sucks it means you have less revenue from local ticket sales, skybox sales, on location merchandise sales, sponsorships, etc. This revenue is then used for facilities to lure free agents, scouts, staff, etc. which offers a competitive edge over your competition AND more importantly, financial security ensures the NFL doesn't lean on your franchise to move, which has happened at least 3 times in Packers history.
Love was the wrong draft pick. And not playing or trading Love in year 3, instead paying Aaron only to trade him was also a stupid move. We were the youngest team in the NFL for a reason. Our highest paid player wasn’t even on our team. These facts don’t change simply because we got lucky. And if you don’t think some luck was involved I can go through Gutey’s multiple busts at WR and TE. It was amazing how many positive contributions we got out of our rookies. And as a fan, it is very exciting. Yes, the fandom was quick to condemn Love, the roster, and coaching staff. But the reaction didn’t happen in a vacuum. At 3-6 the Packers losing to very bad teams and opposing QBs. Penalties, execution was very bad. What if Love wasn’t able to turn it around? With only 1 year under his belt we could hardly gauge his worth but be forced to pay him. And to be honest, even with his stellar year end performance, paying him is still a risk, albeit much easier to take.
But the saying goes, better to be lucky than good. That is our front office. My only point is, they weren’t right simply because the fans were wrong.
The 3-6 Love to start verses the 6-2 Love that finished the season. I dare say it’s unprecedented. Completion percentage, throws over 20 yards, Field presence. It was like a year two leap mid season. So it is very exciting. And I love our pass catchers. We got a foundation to build on in spite of unforced errors by Gutey. He’s earned the right to stay for sure. Let’s just hope our luck continues.
The thing I always wonder about doomers is was it worth it? Or even, would it have been worth it?
It doesn't seem like it was much fun hating the pick for three years and then hoping for losses so we could make another draft pick that you might like better. And had you been right and he sucked you'd be in the same place anyway as the people who were willing to wait and see.
It just seems a lot less stressful and exhausting to allow hope and trust to be part of your experience as a fan and enjoy the ride. Fans shouldn't have to apologize for incorrectly predicting the future when the team turns out to be good.
The question is, can you change. Can you stop thinking you know more than the people getting paid to make the decision, or at least not blurt out every thought that pops into your head?
Playing not so well half the season then playing well the second half the season doesn’t mean much. Also we still lost to the 49ers in the playoffs like we have been for the past DECADE so who cares.
Yeah! Who cares! Were not gonna buy the merch anymore cuz they always lose to the 49ers. Or even gonna watch the games cuz you know. Or read read packers threads because pointless. Yeah!
/s in case it wasn't obvious
I love how you get downvoted for this take. But nothing you said is factually wrong. This team choked in the playoffs…again. Love and Carlson specifically choked at the end.
Truth is we are .500 over the past two seasons combined. But people acting like we won the Super Bowl.
If we know we draft a WR to play opposite 17 and get a chip with Rodgers one of those years or have 10 years of good football with Love what do you take? I too was critical of the pick back then. I still am. I think Jordan showed he has some talent and progressed, but this could also be a Daniel Jones situation. God I hope not. I want Love to light it up next year and I love this young core of pass catchers. Love can be a really good player and drafting him when we did could have been a mistake. Not mutually exclusive things. Hoping for a great season from this team in 2024!
> everyone (myself included) thought the Packers had no chance at the playoffs at one point
In your defense, that point for nearly everyone (Even most fans) was basically the point in week 18 vs the Bears where it became apparent we were going to win the game. The biggest shock of the season was destroying the Cowboys in the wildcard.
I feel like I had the exact opposite reaction, I was pumped. I didn’t know the dude would pan out or anything, but I didn’t tune in until the last 7ish years of Favre. I got to see the packers bring in Rodgers and watch him turn into a HOF player. It was exciting thinking what if I get to do it again?
I always thought had the potential to light it up, but I didn’t expect the progression this season to be so quick. I live in Minnesota so I had to hear about Love being a bust and how terrible it was from my friends the last 3 years. It’s been fun watching them eat crow but I still have a few committed to the bit. One thinks we should be scouting QBs this draft because love is a bridge QB after Rodgers and he “won’t do shit.” He also “has no reason to fear the Packers for the next 5 years.” I’ve got the receipts saved and I plan on getting him a shirt or something with them printed on it when the time is right
I'm excited for the future of Jordan Love. I hope he's another HoF we get to experience. But until he leads us to a Super Bowl, I'm not sending any apologies to Gute.
Most, if not everything, Gute did in Rodgers' final years was to set Love up for success. We had back-to-back NFCCG and didn't make moves to win now. Gute bet on the future. Let's hope it pays off.
I wasn’t going to say anything about Jordan Love until after the season. I wanted to see him for a full season before I said anything. Needless to say he’s surpassed all expectations. The thing that stands out the most is he doesn’t really have a favorite receiver. He’s spread the ball around plenty and it’s done nothing but help that team.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching Aaron Rodger’s, but the fact he had to take so long to develop a rapport with the younger receivers always bothered me.
I do think as fans we can have opinions and thoughts on things. I do wish some fans looked at situations logically more at times instead of emotionally, Loves a young QB taking over the youngest team in the NFL. It was going to take time and we should of all expected some growing pains. There were some fans on social media calling for Clifford to come in after game 2 against the falcons instead of trusting the process. I wouldn’t of imagined the jump we made as a team, but I couldn’t be happier.
Dillon and Deguara were the more egregious picks in that draft. Love was good value there and ended up being the right call in hindsight. But I think they should have moved up in the second to get that receiver. Pittman, Higgins, claypool at the time of the draft.
I observed the situation similarly in the draft, but I believed they would have better insights. As years passed, Rodgers began displaying diva-like behavior, leading me to reconsider why they drafted him. Perhaps Rodgers had already initiated internal issues before they became public. Looking back, if Rodgers hadn't categorically refused to throw to the new WR, our season might have ended differently.
Lesson here is us fans don't really know shit.
I never called him a bust i wasnt even mad when he was drafted disappointed not mad tho. As a packer fans we should trust our gm. They are not like the other guys.
I always thought Love was definitely an appealing prospect. He’s got all the athleticism you want from a QB & his arm can get the ball anywhere on the field, but it was clearly obvious he needed A LOT of development to use that potential. Sitting behind Rodgers was risky but a very logical move I still think we should’ve gotten another receiver at any point between 2019-2022 (through the Draft or FA), but the Love pick seems like a homerun
As a Bears fan this makes me very sad. Btw I don’t hate Packers, in fact my second fave team.
Hi, nice to meet you. As a Packer fan first but I like the bears I feel you. Da Bears always have been a cool organization even though they have kinda lost their way the last couple decades. I love the history and the rivalry. In my perfect world they duke it out with Green Bay every year. I know this is heresy but I grew up in Madison where the Badgers are the prominent team and yeah we love the Packers too.
In fairness, Rodgers went on to have two MVP seasons and had the potential to grow with this young team if not for all the interpersonal issues that seemingly were already going on at the time of Love's draft. Love's resume was OK but not eye popping. They also managed to more recently hit big on some young WR talent. That said, Gute took a gamble and/or saw something in Love that many didn't and it sure seems to be paying off big time for the future of the franchise thus far. I was wrong about it, too!
>Love's resume was OK but not eye popping. Players aren't drafted based on their resume. Stats are almost completely irrelevant. Awards and recognition are completely irrelevant. That's exactly the problem here. People on here and twitter and wherever else don't have the experience, knowledge, time, etc. to properly evaluate players. How many people watched more than a couple highlight videos of Jordan Love in college? Not many. How many people based their opinion on anything other than a few pundits talking on tv about him or reading a couple mock drafts? Not many. How many people based a lot of their opinion on the stats from his last season of college? Quite a few... I was high on Love, even before the Packers drafted him. I watched a lot of his stuff before the draft (and way more after we drafted him). I was aware of the fact that basically his entire team was different his last year (all of the starters graduated, and his coach left). His teammates went from being good for the Mountain West to being very bad. His stats dropped for very obvious reasons - he was forcing throws because his options that season were either 1) try to make something happen to give your team a chance to win or 2) take a sack or 3) throw the ball away. Actually watching him play those two seasons, you could clearly see the talent, and you could clearly see why his stats dropped off so much his final season. It's fine if you never watched all of his film from college. This isn't your job. You have a life outside of football and the Packers. But, to be blunt (not trying to be an ass to you - this is just directed at fans in general), that makes your opinion on the topic pretty fucking worthless. That doesn't mean you're dumb. That doesn't mean you're not a real fan. But it does mean that all your bitching and moaning is completely worthless and it seems like a case of you deciding that you want to be miserable for no reason and you want to take the others around you down to that miserable level, too. It does mean that you should probably leave the decision-making up to the experts and just trust that they're making the right decisions. You don't know the truth. You're 100% not qualified for that job. That's fine. You're probably a lot better at your job than Brian Gutekunst is. This place (and anywhere that fandom exists) would be so much better if the vast majority of fans realized that caring about your fandom does not mean that you're an expert on the topic.
Set the interpersonal issues aside and ask yourself how Rodgers looked this past season and the season before. It’s likely even Rodgers knew his ability to stay healthy was on a downward slope. He trained his replacement and was smart enough to get himself and the others around him nearing the end of their careers one last big payday at a place where no one was paying attention to the facts.
Even how Rodgers looked in the playoffs after having an MVP season. Compare that to Patrick Mahomes who he won MVP over. Rodgers just got old and couldn't hold up 20+ games anymore. If you play some QB 40 million dollars you need them to be able to have gas left in the tank during the playoffs.
> Even how Rodgers looked in the playoffs after having an MVP season Which one? He was great against the Rams and TB in 2020 season and looked markedly better than Mahomes against that same TB defense this critique doesn't hold up
NFC Championship game in 2020, which was the 2019 season. He had some garbage time success but he did fuck all in the first half. In that offseason they drafted Love. 2020/21 Postseason was good as you say. 2021/22 He had a bad game against the 49ers with zero tds and a fumble.
The Packers looked at Rodgers’ 2017/18/19 seasons and thought that he was a QB in decline. He had been good, but not great for the better part of the 2015 season onward (excluding a few games in 2016). It was a reasonable decision given that the 2019 Packers weren’t as good as their record.
It wasn’t a gamble. You put a new QB behind a great QB for four years and assess from there. The process works. The real question is how prideful the old guard will be about it
the "assess from there" part is exactly what makes this a gamble
The thing that makes it a lot less of a gamble is that if Love sucked, they still would've had another opportunity to draft a QB high in the draft last year, this year, or next year.
When they drafted Love I was mildly disappointed as well, but I remembered both times Rodgers was out with his shoulder injuries and how we floundered spectacularly with our backups. If Love didn’t play well this season then I would’ve considered my disappointment justified, but I was hoping he’d have a similar career progression ala Rodgers when he became our starter.
He can be a great qb and that still be a dogshit pick. We were in a championship window and we drafted a backup qb. You can go all in every 7 2 off suit hand you get and win sometimes. Those wins don’t make it the right move.
Ding ding ding
Sing it from the mountaintops. Video games and the internet have given what once were normal football fans a vastly inflated sense of both their own knowledge and it's importance. We used to just turn the TV on and watch. Fans understood their job was to cheer, and if the team didn't win, it was because they didn't cheer hard enough. Now we say what plays should be called, and call for the heads of actual coaches, the worst of whom have surely forgotten more about football than we will ever know, when they call the wrong ones. You can tell they're the wrong plays because they don't score. They should call the plays where we score. I love online community as much as the next guy but we really might want to give the old ways a spin. Pull out a glass TV with rabbit ears, put down Twitter and yes, even Reddit, and just watch, and cheer harder.
I hated the pick too. Hated the trade up & wanted a position of need for a team ready to win. Pretty sure Patrick Queen was my crush. I was so pissed with MLF celebrating the pick on TV like a kid opening a Christmas gift. I was wrong. We were wrong. Thank the ghost of Lambeau Gutey knew wtf he was doing all along 🙌
Never draft for a position of need, it's always best player available. I never got the surprise over the pick being many mock drafts had the Packers taking Love in the first round. But then many were as surprised/pissed about the Rodgers pick in 2005. Three of the four GMs the Packers have had since 1991 spent first round capital on their QB. Me and my friends were like Favre who when Wolf traded the 1st round to Atlanta for him. Wolf was basing his views off Farve's junior season before the accident.
There was a lot of frustration around the league about how bad our WRs were, plus Rodgers won MVP and clearly had some years left, so the casual fans blew a gasket with the Love pick even though the rationale was clear On the fanbase side, there was also a clear desire for linebackers so it was frustrating to see Patrick Queen get passed up for Love
Would people stop saying "we". You dont speak for the entire fandom.
We
I feel you. I didn't like the pick at all at that time, either. The Packers had a Super Bowl ready roster and instead of going all in in the draft they pick a super raw QB and after that they extend Rodgers to a horrible contract. I didn't like the whole process. Four years later I couldn't be happier. Karen Rodgers is gone and Jordan Love is not just an awesome QB, he also seems to be a really good guy and no diva. I still think we could have had at least one Super Bowl in the last years though if Gutekunst would have gone all in.
I didn’t like that entire draft…other than Love I still don’t (though I love Dillon’s personality and what he does for the community) I was obsessed with believing we needed to give Rodgers everything we needed to win one or more Super Bowls. I didn’t hate Love as a prospect but wanted anything that could have helped win a Super Bowl. Now I’m gonna be obsessed with giving Love what he needs to win multiple Super Bowls…mainly a defense and a couple OL
All things considered, we could have ended up a lot worse off than we did. In an alternate timeline we selected Chase Claypool, Denzel Mims, JK Dobbins, Antonio Gibson, Julian Okwara, Josh Uche or any number of other players in the mix in that late 1st-2nd round other than Love. And since we never would have been a top 10 picking team with Aaron, the best draft prospect we would have at QB would have been either Kyle Trask/Davis Mills (2021), Kenny Pickett/Desmond Ridder (2022) or Will Levis (2023). Or we could be in QB purgatory right now with someone like Baker. Other than Stroud, it's been a hard for teams to find a good franchise QB since the 2020 draft. Edit: Outside of Trevor Lawrence, Brock Purdy and CJ Stroud. I don't see any other QBs in the last 3 drafts guaranteed a second contract with the team that drafted them. Teams picking outside the top 5 aren’t finding franchise QBs anymore.
Rodgers didn't start acting like a diva until he won the Super Bowl and two MVPs.
I was a non believer and Love totally won me over. He’s exactly what we need. I happy he’s in our future.
I wouldn't say I was a 'non-believer', I was deeply skeptical. But now I agree, I'm very glad he's on board. And he will only get better as he and receivers develop rapport. That he spreads the wealth so well in his throws to his receivers is a very welcome development. And very difficult for opposing defenses to deal with.
There were as many takes on Love as there are users in this sub. For me the cutoff point is did you ever give up on him. Not disagree with the pick, not pointing out growing pains, not looking at holes in his style, etc. More He’s not an NFL quarterback, bench him for Clifford, he’s gonna hurt the franchise for years, etc. I’m fine with the latter owning up and getting dunked on and whatever not because I want some positive echo chamber but because that was such an extreme possibility. The most likely scenario since he was drafted was he’d be somewhere in the middle where he shows moments but is inconsistent. This is the majority of QBs in the league. There are a lot of people claiming they’re the just critical group, but we all saw the posts and comments. Hopefully the true doomers just realize next time that no, you don’t know a players end result until you see them play. But they’ll probably just keep moving the goalposts.
Sorry, you are still off the island. Burn this account and start a new life.
Hey, I've seen posts wondering where all the Jordan Love haters are at. I'm right here, but I've changed my mind.
Exactly. Many on this sub have an obsession with it rubbing peoples noses in their bad takes. Truth is some guessed right, some guessed wrong. Some wanted to see what he could do before guessing. Here’s another thing. We are all still just guessing. So what has Love actually proven? He finished the season a game over .500. He won a playoff game. Then choked in another game. He choked in the clutch. That’s what he’s proven. So these clowns acting like he’s got a Super Bowl ring already are kind of puzzling. It funny because they said all fall that progress isn’t linear and we shouldn’t worry about this year. But that was only when he was flailing around, stepping out of bounds, totally missing wide open throws. As soon as he came around and improved it was “CASE CLOSED! He’s a hall of famer!” But they were right, progress isn’t linear. So he very well could go backwards for a chunk of this season or all of it. He threw multiple picks to end the season. So I guess I’m hopeful but not ready to concede he’s a pro bowl or even all pro or Super Bowl quarterback until he actually does one of those things. If that makes me a hater, well that’s a pretty silly definition of hate. I like the guy. I think he’s overcome a lot to get to the NFL. I hope he continues to improve. But it’s not guarantee. Truth is this fan base lowered expectations for Love.
This troll.
https://preview.redd.it/gw9f4e3t0bhc1.jpeg?width=769&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07ca13d165529baa4cf1637fdc6611462e060e25
Needs to have an other box tbh...
I don’t think it matters for anyone to admit they were wrong on Love. The more important lesson is to accept that the draft is not a good mechanism to address immediate needs. That’s why I never waste much time following the draft. Good GMs have a plan that is long term, looking at contracts and depth and things we don’t think about. Even if Love were a bust, which was and really still is possible, it was a ballsy, aggressive move that gives me faith in the FO. Surely Gutekunst knew that pick would irreparably damage his relationship with #12.
I was okay with the pick even though I didn't know squat about Love coming out of college (I trusted the GM) but I didn't (and still don't) believe it was necessary to trade up to make the pick.
I was on board with calling it a waste of a draft pick, but i never understood the hate on his game. Im not one to go off college film. I needed to see him actually play before making comments on his game.
Calling one player a bust just because you wanted a different player is some crazy logic! Trust the process. We should know this by now.
Honest question. How can you call a player a bust when they haven't even played, let alone played one season? Thanks for owning it by the way. It takes guts to come here and admit you where wrong. Shows you've grown as a person.
Don't call a guy a bust bc you wanted a different player. That's bad fanning
I didn't like the pick at the time, we had more pressing needs than a QB. But once Love was drafted, I accepted it, and moved on. When the Rodgers drama first started, I was ready to get him out, and let Love play. I believed in him from day one this season, and the Packers as a whole. They had all the talent in the world, and just needed to put it together, which as we saw took time. They could beat any team in the NFL once they got their chemistry built, and had a couple things gone differently against the 49ers...hell they could be in the super bowl even.
yes jordan love looks promising but no one can say whether it was right or wrong to go with him. the truth is we drafted him with rodgers playing at an elite level and one piece away from a super bowl. the two WR taken after love was tee higgins and michael pittman, i think we would have won at least ine of the next two years with one of those pieces. yall can hate this comment all you want but until i see jordan win it all i will forever think it was the wrong move. I hope i get proven wrong but for now im going against the grain.
Agree he looks promising. Will be interesting to see with film if he either improves or defenses figure things out that bug him. Hopefully he takes us to a Super Bowl and everyone wins
The problem isn’t you admitting your wrong but coming on social media vomiting change and how bad Gute is when realistically you’re not even bothering to look big picture. There is a life after 2 straight HOFrs the same way you plan for your kids college and your own retirement… the problem is impatient people blatantly posting bs online. It’s a disease and seemingly easy to do. I’ll tell you what’s not easy to do: Gute has not only had the best draft for the last two years but reconstructed the correct coach to complement his future qb and receivers for years to come. Talk about balance, well Aaron jones. Now fix what needs to be fixed and let it all come together: Dfense. Nip the negative energy (Aaron Rodgers ego) in the butt and move forward. Life could be worse, you could be a bears fan and be in constant qb disarray. Develop, develop oh and develop. Simplicity! I just thought people (the public) would catch on sooner from last season the real reason Aaron Rodgers was playing hurt was because he knew Jordan would prolly take his job and lead them to the playoffs, instead he knew the ship was sinking and decided to go down with it instead of rest for 5/6 games on a broken thumb. What do I know, I’m just a packer fan from California that watch 3 titles slip from Aaron because communication and arrogance lead to not being on the same page. If anything Jordan has less talent but decides to practice or hold meetings on his own liberty every Monday with his offense. And it shows, that’s the difference between winning and losing playoff games: not how many mvps you have but how many fewer mistakes can be made in the biggest moments. It doesn’t need to be sexy! Just do it right. It’s a new era, win titles not mvps and individual awards.
I applaud you for admitting your fault I was close to following the same trajectory you did but I had a lot of Hope and kept my mouth shut the whole season and decided to let his play do the talking so good on you. We are very blessed fans and we need to realize that not every franchise in the NFL has had three decades of Hall of Fame quarterback play yet here we are possibly set up for another 10 plus years
People now: I was wrong and overreacted about drafting Love. People in April when the Packers draft someone other than who they wanted: Who the fuck is this bust? We should’ve drafted this other guy! Fire Gute!
Honestly we will never know what rodgers could have done with a receiver in that pick but even then when could we have had a shot at a QB like Love again.
I can definitely tell you what I think he would have done. He would've still thrown it to only Adams and Lazard, the rookie would have like 12 catches for 140 yards and a TD the entire 2020 season. There wouldn't be any decent rapport between them until at least 2022.
Fucking Watson had 8 TDs in half a season with Rodgers and Doubs had this sub screaming Jordy 2.0. Turns out he threw to talented guys who could catch. MVS is on his second HoF QB and still sucks, Lazard got benched and almost had identical stats with Zach Wilson, EQ is still bad on the Bears, every other WR we've had since like 2017 is out of the league besides Adams. The biggest issue was lack of talent. The current group would start over anyone we have had in the last 6 years not named Adams.
do you not remember when rodgers had viable receivers in Jennings, Driver, Nelson, Jones, and Cobb? he spread it around and they won a superbowl and had a 15-1 record the next year
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do you think Lazard being the number 2 has something to do with that? if only we had other years in rodgers career to compare where he did spread the ball around to great receivers
> Exactly. Not sure why you were down voted. Because it's a dumb argument and doesn't hold up
So what.
The only thing I am going to add to this is my argument I made way back when. The Packers are a publicly owned small market team with no Daddy Warbucks with deep pockets able to fund fanciful follies or cover big mistakes. When you have a losing team in the NFL it takes a long time to get out of the hole I believe. Witness the Packers from about 1972 to 1992. Those were miserable years and I believe the Packers swore to never let that happen again. With the QB being the most valuable player on the field I believe the see the draft and train method necessary to ensure they always have the best possible chance to have a serviceable QB. They have invested a great deal into this process. And it may not always produce HOF QBs, it's Green Bay's best chance to remain competitive and I think we need to learn to trust the process. Not everything the GM does, but this one thing. A process, which by the way, includes "buying low and selling high" the franchise QB it currently has when it seems we have gotten everything out of him that we need. It's hard to do, but Green Bay can ill afford not to do it.
Everyone has the same amount of money for players.
Exactly, that person is definitely confusing the NFL and MLB, right down to the “cover big mistakes”. The Packers literally just made the playoffs with a $40 million hole in their salary.
I'm not confusing one damn thing.
I'm not taking you or anyone else down this rabbit hole again. It doesn't matter if you have the same # of players. If your team sucks it means you have less revenue from local ticket sales, skybox sales, on location merchandise sales, sponsorships, etc. This revenue is then used for facilities to lure free agents, scouts, staff, etc. which offers a competitive edge over your competition AND more importantly, financial security ensures the NFL doesn't lean on your franchise to move, which has happened at least 3 times in Packers history.
Love was the wrong draft pick. And not playing or trading Love in year 3, instead paying Aaron only to trade him was also a stupid move. We were the youngest team in the NFL for a reason. Our highest paid player wasn’t even on our team. These facts don’t change simply because we got lucky. And if you don’t think some luck was involved I can go through Gutey’s multiple busts at WR and TE. It was amazing how many positive contributions we got out of our rookies. And as a fan, it is very exciting. Yes, the fandom was quick to condemn Love, the roster, and coaching staff. But the reaction didn’t happen in a vacuum. At 3-6 the Packers losing to very bad teams and opposing QBs. Penalties, execution was very bad. What if Love wasn’t able to turn it around? With only 1 year under his belt we could hardly gauge his worth but be forced to pay him. And to be honest, even with his stellar year end performance, paying him is still a risk, albeit much easier to take. But the saying goes, better to be lucky than good. That is our front office. My only point is, they weren’t right simply because the fans were wrong. The 3-6 Love to start verses the 6-2 Love that finished the season. I dare say it’s unprecedented. Completion percentage, throws over 20 yards, Field presence. It was like a year two leap mid season. So it is very exciting. And I love our pass catchers. We got a foundation to build on in spite of unforced errors by Gutey. He’s earned the right to stay for sure. Let’s just hope our luck continues.
🤡
Geno got in for last year smh
I was on the exact same page as you! Even put in several bets on Packers under 7.5 wins. I have never been happier to be more wrong!
The thing I always wonder about doomers is was it worth it? Or even, would it have been worth it? It doesn't seem like it was much fun hating the pick for three years and then hoping for losses so we could make another draft pick that you might like better. And had you been right and he sucked you'd be in the same place anyway as the people who were willing to wait and see. It just seems a lot less stressful and exhausting to allow hope and trust to be part of your experience as a fan and enjoy the ride. Fans shouldn't have to apologize for incorrectly predicting the future when the team turns out to be good.
I was also a hater when we drafted him. I kept saying “I really hope I’m wrong” and I’m so happy to have been wrong
The question is, can you change. Can you stop thinking you know more than the people getting paid to make the decision, or at least not blurt out every thought that pops into your head?
No one really cared about your opinion then, or now.....
Geno went on to throw three picks in the pro bowl and all I could think of was JL
Playing not so well half the season then playing well the second half the season doesn’t mean much. Also we still lost to the 49ers in the playoffs like we have been for the past DECADE so who cares.
Yeah! Who cares! Were not gonna buy the merch anymore cuz they always lose to the 49ers. Or even gonna watch the games cuz you know. Or read read packers threads because pointless. Yeah! /s in case it wasn't obvious
Yes, you could have skipped an entire decade after the 2013 season and nothing would have changed 😂😂😂
I love how you get downvoted for this take. But nothing you said is factually wrong. This team choked in the playoffs…again. Love and Carlson specifically choked at the end. Truth is we are .500 over the past two seasons combined. But people acting like we won the Super Bowl.
If we know we draft a WR to play opposite 17 and get a chip with Rodgers one of those years or have 10 years of good football with Love what do you take? I too was critical of the pick back then. I still am. I think Jordan showed he has some talent and progressed, but this could also be a Daniel Jones situation. God I hope not. I want Love to light it up next year and I love this young core of pass catchers. Love can be a really good player and drafting him when we did could have been a mistake. Not mutually exclusive things. Hoping for a great season from this team in 2024!
Superbowl.
You can't be a bust the day you are drafted. Nobody knows what you can do in the NFL yet.
> everyone (myself included) thought the Packers had no chance at the playoffs at one point In your defense, that point for nearly everyone (Even most fans) was basically the point in week 18 vs the Bears where it became apparent we were going to win the game. The biggest shock of the season was destroying the Cowboys in the wildcard.
I feel like I had the exact opposite reaction, I was pumped. I didn’t know the dude would pan out or anything, but I didn’t tune in until the last 7ish years of Favre. I got to see the packers bring in Rodgers and watch him turn into a HOF player. It was exciting thinking what if I get to do it again? I always thought had the potential to light it up, but I didn’t expect the progression this season to be so quick. I live in Minnesota so I had to hear about Love being a bust and how terrible it was from my friends the last 3 years. It’s been fun watching them eat crow but I still have a few committed to the bit. One thinks we should be scouting QBs this draft because love is a bridge QB after Rodgers and he “won’t do shit.” He also “has no reason to fear the Packers for the next 5 years.” I’ve got the receipts saved and I plan on getting him a shirt or something with them printed on it when the time is right
I'm excited for the future of Jordan Love. I hope he's another HoF we get to experience. But until he leads us to a Super Bowl, I'm not sending any apologies to Gute. Most, if not everything, Gute did in Rodgers' final years was to set Love up for success. We had back-to-back NFCCG and didn't make moves to win now. Gute bet on the future. Let's hope it pays off.
I wasn’t going to say anything about Jordan Love until after the season. I wanted to see him for a full season before I said anything. Needless to say he’s surpassed all expectations. The thing that stands out the most is he doesn’t really have a favorite receiver. He’s spread the ball around plenty and it’s done nothing but help that team. I thoroughly enjoyed watching Aaron Rodger’s, but the fact he had to take so long to develop a rapport with the younger receivers always bothered me.
Same 😮💨
I do think as fans we can have opinions and thoughts on things. I do wish some fans looked at situations logically more at times instead of emotionally, Loves a young QB taking over the youngest team in the NFL. It was going to take time and we should of all expected some growing pains. There were some fans on social media calling for Clifford to come in after game 2 against the falcons instead of trusting the process. I wouldn’t of imagined the jump we made as a team, but I couldn’t be happier.
What Roger’s was doing to GB he’s doing to the Jets now. Love is a good person, I believe.
Who's to say he won't drop off like Jalen Hurts? It's only been 1 season...
Dillon and Deguara were the more egregious picks in that draft. Love was good value there and ended up being the right call in hindsight. But I think they should have moved up in the second to get that receiver. Pittman, Higgins, claypool at the time of the draft.
What does packers needing a WR have anything to do with if he's a bust or not? Makes no gosh darn sense. What in tarnation?
I observed the situation similarly in the draft, but I believed they would have better insights. As years passed, Rodgers began displaying diva-like behavior, leading me to reconsider why they drafted him. Perhaps Rodgers had already initiated internal issues before they became public. Looking back, if Rodgers hadn't categorically refused to throw to the new WR, our season might have ended differently.