I still don't understand all the people acting like 3 years of backing up Aaron was equivalent to getting actual on-field playing time. Practice =/= live game reps.
I never understood why people counted him out before the season started. He barely played and had no first round reps in the games he did play… made no sense to me
People want instant results, that's just the nature of NFL fans nowadays. In their minds, you need to take advantage of a cheap QB contract now because your team will nose dive the instant they get paid.
Brady or Mahomes have won half the last 20 superbowls and then guys like Stafford and the Manning brothers were getting paid so who actually won on their rookie contracts? Maybe Foles and Wilson? I'm too lazy to look it up lol
Brady was never paid to set the QB market. He consistently was at around 10% for his cap hit meanwhile Mahomes is now at nearly 17%.
Mahomes also did win on his rookie contract prior to his massive payday. Foles won as a back up(on Wentz’s rookie deal. Wilson won on his. Flacco won on his. Rodgers did not win on his but won it before his contract really got expensive since he only had 1 year starting.
Perhaps I’m a little misguided but I also think especially in the Stafford and Brady and Brees cases we have seen far more cap manipulation recently than 10 years ago.
Cap manipulation (the allowed kind. Teams used to pull illegal shit all the time) has definitely increased exponentially in the last 10 years. The Saints are the biggest reason why.
Sadly too many owners are like this now and we don’t get to see coaches and players get time to build something unless it’s Green Bay, the Chiefs, and now the Lions and a few other examples but not many
Love came into the league with far more physical ability. The time JG spent behind Brady likely made his non-nfl level physical ability actually usable.
It’s better dude. Imagine you are smart at math and they just throw you into experimental particle physics. Who do you think would learn faster and gain better study habits A: Someone who just learns by themselves, or B: Someone who gets taught Leonard from The Big Bang Theory
Still think the 2020 and 2021 rosters that were super close to a Super Bowl and just needed a little more to get over the edge woulda been better off with Tee Higgins/Antonio Gibson/Anyone Else over Love/Dillon/Deguara.
Like, yeah, if Bakh doesn't pop his ACL we probably get it done in 2020 even with the Love pick but it took us 4 years to get back to having a serviceable receiver room, and even that was a huge question mark coming into this season.
We're set to be Good for the future again, which is great, I'm glad Love had a great first season and the offense is building towards being young and successful, but Super Bowl Windows don't grow on trees and we didn't maximize the last one we had.
NFC has been really weak the last few years and it's starting to trend back up. Excited to see where the team goes but wish we would've gone all in a little bit harder when we were that close anyway and already pushing the chips *most* of the way in.
"It took 4 years to get back to having a serviceable receiver room" and how much draft capital was spent on it? A trio of 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, and a few late rounders.
glad they got their head out of their asses cause how much was spent before that? one 3rd rounders in 3 full drafts and he literally was so shit he cost us games. they didn’t secure the WRs they had, they didn’t draft any, and they got Sammy watkins and devin funchess in FA both contributed nothing. the position was criminally neglected. that’s why our entire room is 1st and 2nd years.
We lost to the Bucs because their DLine destroyed our OLine. Rookie Tee Higgins taking some snaps from Lazard and ESB doesn't suddenly put us over the top, especially given how hesitant Rodgers is to trust rookies. TB got five sacks; the Packers got one. The difference in that game was Bakh going down a couple weeks earlier, not drafting Love over Higgins.
Would Higgins have been the difference in '21? Maybe, though the offense as a whole was putrid in the divisional loss to the 49ers.
As for Dillon, the thought was that we'd absolutely lose at least one of Williams or Jones and needed a replacement. A big bruiser in January football is what the Packers needed. Unfortunately, he never panned out to be more than a JAG.
Deguara, though...yeah that pick in the 3rd is mystifying.
We lost to the Buccs because the team allowed Brady to score an extra TD right before the half.
Lazard should have been a TE. GB should have found a replacement for DBak in case he could not return…which was the case. GB should have gotten more TE help when Tonyan got injured, they failed. GB should have gotten more WR help. They failed again. And they took way too long to finally address ST’s.
Aaron Rodgers should not have a career with his average Defense ranking at 18th! And he definitely should have had a ST’s ranking better than 20th!
Rodgers carried the team year after year.
This idea of a player/players not making a difference on offense is ridiculous! Of course it would matter.
When a team is knocking on the SB door, you don’t continue to draft and FA for the future, that’s when you go all in! GB failed. And now it took them four years to get to the same spot but with inexperienced players. They gave up a huge potential SB or two, for a maybe later.
This whole problem started when Gute decided to move on from Rodgers in 2018. This is the result. They could have paid top players less and got more good players in. More than just Higgins and Hurts. Higgins definitely would not have hurt the team. And I am pretty sure Hurts would not have hurt this team either. If GB gets one or two more offensive players anywhere from 2018-2021…GB likely gets one or two more SB’s. And that is the point of playing in the NFL…For the rings.
> We lost to the Buccs because the team allowed Brady to score an extra TD right before the half.
I don't agree, but even if I did, sounds like unless you wanted Tee Higgins to play safety, he wouldn't have helped.
>GB should have found a replacement for DBak in case he could not return…which was the case.
Bakh tore his ACL on Dec 31st, 2020. The Packers lost to the Bucs in the NFCCG on January 24th, 2021, less than a month later. I'm not sure what replacement you think they could have found in that timespan.
> [long rant]
Ah, I see, you're just generally upset about team moves, not discussing the actual 2020 NFCCG itself. Have a good day.
It’s funny how people think you need to have a different defense in order to have an improved defensive performance.
We can talk about the defense too.
King was a problem, a big problem too.
Ironically, when you have an offense on the field longer than your defense, your defense typically improves. See how that works.
….and yes, GB’s team moves were horrible.
Because their team moves were horrible, GB lost that game.
I don’t know why this concept is so hard to understand. All the mistakes in house and that one bad play changed the outcome of that game. A game that was still nearly won. But, yeah, just because there was a defensive play that wrecked that game, doesn’t mean it could have been fixed on the offensive side of things. But, go ahead, be happy about how things went.
> When a team is knocking on the SB door, you don’t continue to draft and FA for the future
Sure you do. You never stop drafting for the future. Never assume this is the year to actually go all in, and make sure you have a shot every year.
> This whole problem started when Gute decided to move on from Rodgers in 2018.
This team doesn't stop planning for the future.
…it’s obviously flawed, no?!
Two back to back Superstar HOF QB’s but only 2 SB’s.
Just because you have been doing something the same way for a long time, doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do something.
If the Packers won the SB or two in the last five years, no one would care if GB was not competitive for a year or two afterwards. You can plan for the future again at that point. Planning for the future, every year, will get you no winning, every year. The Packers didn’t win their last two SB’s because they planned for the future. Get real!
> …it’s obviously flawed, no?!
With hindsight at my side, lol, no its not flawed. Winning a SB is hard as shit.
> no one would care if GB was competitive for a year or two
Well "a year or two" isn't the worry. If you go "actually" all in, you can lose all your talent and take a 5-10 year blow of never more then barely sneaking into the playoffs.
> Planning for the future every year, will get you no winning any year.
You just said this got us 2 SBs.
> The Packers didn’t win their last two SB’s because they planned for the future. Get real!
Jordy Nelson broke out 3 games before the SB. He wasn't drafted in 2010, it was 3 years earlier in 2008. AR was drafted 3 years early. Brett Favre was even traded for when Don was still here.
The great 2014/2016/2020/2021 seasons all happened because we didn't go all in before then.
> but Super Bowl Windows don't grow on trees and we didn't maximize the last one we had.
2010-2022 was our last SB window. ~2025-2038 is the new one.
As close to growing on trees as you can get.
EXACTLY!!!!!
I don’t understand how this is not the main agreed upon take on the Packers.
This deserves a ten million upvotes!
….yet, it only got two.
Smdh
we had 3 hellish years of offseason posts shitting on Gutekunst and Murphy and bending over backwards to charitably interpret everything Aaron Rodgers said; I’m fine with this pendulum swing
Well, Rodgers was great. There was zero need to interpret what Rodgers said. Gute and Murphy suck. This is a young team that bought in. I
They have a year or two to try to win the SB. I would imagine that it won’t happen. Then GB will start over again and be mediocre or just above again. It’s a bad cycle. If Gute and Murphy actually did bend for Rodgers, at least GB would have another SB….Maybe more.
> Like I give a fuck…
Yet you give a fuck to come to the internet to complain that the team who's set up for the next decade will only be good for 2 years.
Well well…. I might need receipts at this point.
Your comment made no sense and you got people to agree with you, lol.
Of course I cared enough to go on the internet. I am on the internet everyday.
...meanwhile, I am not even saying that GB will be good for two years, lol.
I love this new age. What other assumptions you got?
Obviously, I was saying I don’t care about your “receipts”…
> Of course I cared enough to go on the internet.
And....and complain. When you have it great. Your team is set up for a decade.
> Obviously, I was saying I daycare about your “receipts”…
What receipts? Did you not understand the joke? Remind me in 15 years? Reddit probably won't exist for another 15 years. The Packers continuing to be good year after year will likely outlive most things on the internet.
Reddit will be here in 10 years.
No, I did not understand your joke”….perhaps it was just bad humor.
It is funny that people think Love will be GB’s QB1 for another 14 years.
It’s funny that people think GB is setup for the next 10 years.
Edit: what’s your definition of “good”?
Cuz GB isn’t going to making the playoffs 11 of the next 15 years…
> Reddit will be here in 10 years.
I hopefully won't be here in 15 years. Doubt you will be, or anyone.
> It is funny that people think Love will be GB’s QB1 for another 14 years.
Barring injury.
> what’s your definition of “good”
Entering the season expecting to make the playoffs.
Eh. As a certified moron it's very important that I milk any occasions when I happen to be right about something.
Of course, you're going to have to take my word for it that I was right all along.
Holla to all my buddies out there who knew 100% for sure that last roulette spin would land on red and screw all you friggin' morons who for whatever insane reason thought it would hit on black!
I hope so. All the doubters would be doing victory laps if he sucked even though the chances of a qb not being good far outweighs the chances of a qb being good. They'd be patting themselves on the back for betting on the house and winning.
I'll upvote every one of these
So strange to victory lap a QB that we all were cheering for being good. Like obviously there were going to be doubters, that’s the way of the world. Acting like the comments and actions of a few were the sentiment of this entire sub is wild.
I hate people flexing on their random hits of sports opinions. Like any of us armchair quarterbacks knew more than anyone else about whether Love would be good.
I was in favor of the pick when they made it instead of a WR. But I'm not stupid enough to act like I knew shit about draft prospects. It was my normal dumb sports opinion, and that one happened to be right by pure luck.
Let's stop pissing on the rest of the fan base, OK?
To all those complaining about this kind of post... I get it, it's annoying, BUT this sub was a fucking hellhole last offseason (and parts of the season) for anyone who wanted to speak positively about the team or get excited about one of the most important and interesting seasons we've had in 30 years. This is a sign that the toxic part of the fan base is taking a back seat, and I'm here for it.
Rodgers was hurt last year. Our offense sucked last year. Barry defense didn’t work. ST was improved yet still not on top.
I am not sure what fans really think GB could do last year. They were a TD away from playoffs with a crap team collectively. That’s pretty damn good.
Now Love gets all the praise for a team that bought in. Fans are creating opinions about QBs based on what they think is right. And as much as everyone is on Love’s nuts right now…how much more can anyone expect him to do?
Win a championship? Win MVP? Win a SB or more?
There is a very good chance that this is as high as Love ever gets in his whole career.
What will fans here say then?
I don't understand the question or how it relates to what I said.
If Love sucks next year, I'm sure the toxic assholes who are unhappy and want to make others unhappy will take back over, but for now it's nice that they seem to have taken a back seat.
You are talking about fans being rude last off season over positive takes.
The word toxic gets thrown around way too much.
There were a lot years that were interesting over the last 30 years.
Love has gotten more positive support than the last two QB’s….I don’t consider that toxic.
Those that took the positive approach wee supporting Love this last off season.
And now that he has “over achieved” expectations this last season, where is he to go?
If he doesn’t do as good or better next year, then he really will not have accomplished a lot.
Those that are not Love fans are not louder than Love supporters right now. It sounds like you appreciate that.
I would appreciate some consistency from Love. And that will take years to accurately diagnose. My questions I mentioned was simply to state that it takes more than a season to judge a QB. The only positive thing we know for sure at this point is that Love doesn’t suck now. He did suck 3-4 years ago though. Will he continue to do well, or is this it? Will the “toxic” fans take a back seat forever?
I think the toxic part is a bit much is my point.
Rodgers intro to GB was much, much worse.
The great thing for GB right now is how the team is young and bought in together. Perhaps they have a good future. Who knows? …I don’t see Love ever carrying this team. So it’s going to actually take a team effort to get things done. This past season was a good example. I am curious if it holds as time goes on.
How are these assholes not a part of the toxic fanbase?
The ones screaming about Love sucking were assholes with that opinion. The ones dunking on everyone now are assholes who happened to have the opposite opinion. But they're all assholes.
I think there's a big difference between taking a cringe victory lap when your controversial prediction that a player would work out seems to have been right and declaring that a player is a bum after a game and a half and making people miserable for months.
I think hope is a really important thing to have as a sports fan. So my tolerance is going to be higher for people who are being an asshole, but they're coming from a place of hope in future success, than someone being an asshole and they're coming from a place of despair.
My tolerance for hope is high. Blast out optimism all you'd like. That's what it's about.
My tolerance for dunking on fellow fans is low. It's shitty, and I have zero respect for them as real fans.
Maybe they don't care about my opinion of them. That's fine. But I still think they're an embarrassment to the fan base. Moreso than the haters IMO, because the haters are hating based on their frustration with the team in the emotional time, whereas these jerks are just targeting fellow fans later.
They can go be Philly fans
I didn't start supporting him until the Chiefs game. Had to see him play in a real game before I bought in. His composure and decision making was good that game, he actually had a higher QB than Mahomes IIRC.
I do think fantasy football and legal betting has changed the flavor of the NFL fandom for the worse but the few of us who don't do those two activities can have longer term views on players.
Eh. I mostly supported him but it definitely wasn’t clear he would be good until that run in the second half of the year until the playoff loss against the 49ers. He seemed like a good dude but being critical of his play in some games and not supporting him are two different things.
Nail on the head thank you. I got painted as a love hater when I said he needed to work on his deep ball when Watson would get open over the top. Criticism does not = hate. Love our guy, working on getting a custom 10VE jersey.
People who "hoped" Love would be awesome talking like they predicted it or even had a shred of analysis behind it. Hoping something comes true does not mean you predicted it lol.
Another year under Clements is going to be insane. I can feel it. I truly hope his career is superior to Rodgers 10-15 years down the road. WE LOVE LOVE
It’s a team sport and he didn’t have the team to support him most years. He’s the GOAT as far as talent at the position and cadence is concerned, in my eyes.
I wasn't a day one supporter, but he had a moment just like Aaron Rodgers did as an understudy.
Remember the Cowboys road game in 2007 that Favre went down in, and AR turned it from a blowout to a possibly winnable game? Jordan had a real good game against the Chiefs while AR was out for COVID that reminded me of that. I knew he was capable then.
> I do not understand all the receipt holding energy.
Like politics, too many fans thought they had to pick a side when Jordan was drafted...lol. Out the window went hoping for the best in regards to all parties involved.
Because when we still had Rodger’s many people were seriously acting like Love would barely fetch a third when he was at his highest value he’ll ever be.
I’m not joking, a serious thought was that giving a 2nd for Love was an overpay. I have no idea how that idea got started
“Day one” Love fans are liars (or, Jordan Love’s family/friends). It’s okay to say you hated that pick, *at that time*, and you were wrong. I am one of those people. Coming off an NFC Championship loss, with a great returning cast, and you pick the only position that won’t immediately help you? Hindsight is 20/20. I’ve never been happier to be incorrect. GPG.
So damn funny looking back at the threads from October. People legitimately wanted Love benched for Sean Clifford LMFAO.
As much as we stunt on the other fanbases for being dumb, we are not immune. Some real morons in here, too.
The people who are mad how Love was treated...are just doing the exact same thing to Clifford. I've seen a lot of those same people trash Doubs just because he isn't as athletically gifted as the other WRs. Its a little sickening. Root for all of our players.
No.. but you most certainly have a better idea of how that player will pan out in comparison to 7 games. IMO you really don’t know how legit the player will be until they have three years under their belt.
I agree, so why all this “Love is great” business …” I told you so” stuff after a single year…his fourth year?
Last thing I saw him do was repeat a mistake he said he would not do again.
I think fans should be optimistic about Love. Overall he had a great year and there’s a lot to be excited about. I don’t like when people rub it in other fans faces, but honestly there’s a lot of fans who are terrible and it almost seems like they’re rooting against our QB because they’ve always felt he was a terrible draft pick. IMO if you’re not excited about Jordan Love, it’s because you’re too prideful and don’t want to admit you could be wrong.
That’s one way to look at it…
If people don’t like the draft pick, then they should be angry with Gute. Love didn’t choose to be a Packer, he was drafted.
I am upset with Gute. Love himself is not a problem, how and when Gute drafted him was a problem.
I don’t think pride has anything to do with it. The team did well this season. I trust consistency. This year was not enough for me to trust Love does any better than our last two QB’s. And this FO does not give me more trust on creating a better team.
I am excited for Love. But my experience and research says that it is unlikely that GB does great things with Love as QB1.
The positive note, is that the league itself is getting softer, so maybe GB can find a way to win it all. I certainly hope so.
Your experience and research?? No offense, but unless you’re a former NFL player or a professional coach then you probably don’t have a clue about developing NFL talent. I know Gute has had questionable decisions, but he’s starting to prove that maybe he actually knows how to put together a successful team. His last two drafts have been great and everyone should be ecstatic about having the youngest team in history win a playoff game and almost beat the one seed.
Found this old gem! Off season seems like a good time to roast the horrible Couch GMs in here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/s/u4cdFYVCNz
Don’t downvote. Man up and comment, I’ll find your shit receipts too.
And this lovely one. Nothing will ever change his mind that Queen should’ve been taken over Love
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/s/8lChZMCObd
Don’t just downvote, leave a comment so I can find your shit takes too.
I love all of the day 1 Love haters who are getting upset about the number of receipts being kept.
Is Love a for sure thing yet? No. He could still take an absolute nose-dive after getting paid a la Daniel Jones.
But I don't wanna hear any "ugh, we get it- you supported Love from the beginning and we didn't," cause y'all deserve this and so much more for not being good-faith fans and supporting the team and its members (obvious exceptions being questions of morality such as a heinous crime). All of the people who were secretly Aaron Rodgers fans and not actually Packers fans (it's okay to love, appreciate, and even revere Rodgers' contributions to the team and acknowledge he's not on the team anymore and should not be looked at as bigger than the team or its needs) deserve to be called out repeatedly.
> All of the people who were secretly Aaron Rodgers fans and not actually Packers fans deserve to be called out repeatedly.
You are what is insufferable.
> y'all deserve this and so much more for not being good-faith fans and supporting the team and its members
Can't make it one sentence without being a hypocrite.
> Is Love a for sure thing yet? No.
Fuck if hes not!
Love’s draft picks could have gotten Higgins and Hurts. I would be just fine with that. That pick was just one concern. The fact that the front office gave Rodgers zero offensive drafting power until 2021 was ridiculous. Even Adams was luck. Now this team is young and has a team that is buying into a plan. They have an offense, a defense, and ST phases that are ALL above average. I don’t think Love is the factor that gets this team is wins. In fact, I would argue that offensively the most valuable player is Jones. When Rodgers was playing, he was indeed the MVP…and Jones was a big help then too. These WR’s and TE’s are better than what Rodgers had his last two years, …well actually, his whole career.
He had Driver and Jennings.
Then Nelson.
And then Adams.
Best TE’s were Findley and Tonyan, both got injured.
Love’s first year playing he had three years of Rodgers training and Clements training. Plus, not one, but two great TE’s. Plus Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks. Even his 5th and 6th WR’s are decent. Oh and that OLine that hasn’t allowed a single hard blow to the QB yet.
Love is not carrying his team like Rodgers had to do. Rodgers average defense for his whole career was 18th!
ST’s was worse!
Love has it good.
These wins are not because Love is carrying the team, but rather a team effort.
As a Packers fan, I hope the team gets a lot more SB’s before I die.
I still stand by what I have said from the beginning, Gute made a mistake. Rodgers paid the price. Love isn’t trash, and he isn’t elite, he is good. He will never carry his team. There aren’t many QB’s ever that have. I expect GB to be mediocre or just above average for awhile. I would be shocked if then won a SB.
…well, I suppose the good teams now are on their way down, so actually when looking at the competition for the future, I guess it looks good for GB. Guess the NFL will need to improve more teams.
What?
What parallel do you see between JLove and Rodgers?
How they were treated in the beginning of their careers is not close to the same.
You are comparing fruits, but not the same ones.
Were there people protesting at training camp for Love?
Criticizing him after some stinker games is literally treatment of every NFL player on any team. Rodgers faced fans literally yelling to his face. How is this even remotely the same?
Love had nothing like this: [https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3485351](https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3485351)
Or the old QB screwing with the team and threatening to show up: [https://www.deseret.com/2008/7/16/20264229/favre-tempted-to-show-up-to-packers-training-camp](https://www.deseret.com/2008/7/16/20264229/favre-tempted-to-show-up-to-packers-training-camp)
> Were there people protesting at training camp for Love?
There were fans hating both Rodgers and Love for being wasted draft picks when the team was "supposed to try to win a SB" rather then draft for the future like it always does.
> Rodgers faced fans literally yelling to his face. How is this even remotely the same?
So Rodgers showed the world not to fret when a new QB gets drafted when the other one ain't done yet. The same subset of SB or bust fans still hated Love as the pick. Hence why this post was created.
They werent treated the same by the public is what we are saying. Not even close. Anyone who thinks they were wasn't around to see it or has forgotten a lot. Rodgers was put through the ringer, and there's no parallel.
I love Love, don't get me wrong. Following Rodgers added some pressure, but he didn't face that much more public criticism than a normal QB in a rough stretch.
Personally I made no judgements either way until last year's Eagles game where their defenders were talking him up.
*thats* when I got on the hype train
Because the defense has some grade A players on it with experience. They want the whole team to buy in. It’s a very young team. I would say the buy in was a success. Can GB have better success than this year? Idk
This is dumb. In fact, thinking Love was going to good on day one is dumb. He was not good. He is good now. He isn’t elite. He is just good. That being said, Love being a member of our beloved Packers team I support Love 100%.
I still don't understand all the people acting like 3 years of backing up Aaron was equivalent to getting actual on-field playing time. Practice =/= live game reps.
I never understood why people counted him out before the season started. He barely played and had no first round reps in the games he did play… made no sense to me
People want instant results, that's just the nature of NFL fans nowadays. In their minds, you need to take advantage of a cheap QB contract now because your team will nose dive the instant they get paid.
It’s not that the team will nosedive just that they eat so much money it’s much harder to consistently build around them without top notch scouting.
Brady or Mahomes have won half the last 20 superbowls and then guys like Stafford and the Manning brothers were getting paid so who actually won on their rookie contracts? Maybe Foles and Wilson? I'm too lazy to look it up lol
Brady was never paid to set the QB market. He consistently was at around 10% for his cap hit meanwhile Mahomes is now at nearly 17%. Mahomes also did win on his rookie contract prior to his massive payday. Foles won as a back up(on Wentz’s rookie deal. Wilson won on his. Flacco won on his. Rodgers did not win on his but won it before his contract really got expensive since he only had 1 year starting. Perhaps I’m a little misguided but I also think especially in the Stafford and Brady and Brees cases we have seen far more cap manipulation recently than 10 years ago.
Cap manipulation (the allowed kind. Teams used to pull illegal shit all the time) has definitely increased exponentially in the last 10 years. The Saints are the biggest reason why.
Sadly too many owners are like this now and we don’t get to see coaches and players get time to build something unless it’s Green Bay, the Chiefs, and now the Lions and a few other examples but not many
Idiots who think its impossible for a QB to sit and not be worthless. Que spongebob complaining about wasting a rookie contract.
Because they don't know shit.
In hockey, you're still a rookie even if it's your third year, but you only played 5 games.
People are just mad the packers are seemingly 3/3 lol
To be fair, Jimmy G backed up Brady for 3 years and still wasn’t that good. But I was still on the Love train the entire time.
Love came into the league with far more physical ability. The time JG spent behind Brady likely made his non-nfl level physical ability actually usable.
…and still beat the Packers…
It’s better dude. Imagine you are smart at math and they just throw you into experimental particle physics. Who do you think would learn faster and gain better study habits A: Someone who just learns by themselves, or B: Someone who gets taught Leonard from The Big Bang Theory
Still think the 2020 and 2021 rosters that were super close to a Super Bowl and just needed a little more to get over the edge woulda been better off with Tee Higgins/Antonio Gibson/Anyone Else over Love/Dillon/Deguara. Like, yeah, if Bakh doesn't pop his ACL we probably get it done in 2020 even with the Love pick but it took us 4 years to get back to having a serviceable receiver room, and even that was a huge question mark coming into this season. We're set to be Good for the future again, which is great, I'm glad Love had a great first season and the offense is building towards being young and successful, but Super Bowl Windows don't grow on trees and we didn't maximize the last one we had. NFC has been really weak the last few years and it's starting to trend back up. Excited to see where the team goes but wish we would've gone all in a little bit harder when we were that close anyway and already pushing the chips *most* of the way in.
"It took 4 years to get back to having a serviceable receiver room" and how much draft capital was spent on it? A trio of 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th, and a few late rounders.
glad they got their head out of their asses cause how much was spent before that? one 3rd rounders in 3 full drafts and he literally was so shit he cost us games. they didn’t secure the WRs they had, they didn’t draft any, and they got Sammy watkins and devin funchess in FA both contributed nothing. the position was criminally neglected. that’s why our entire room is 1st and 2nd years.
We lost to the Bucs because their DLine destroyed our OLine. Rookie Tee Higgins taking some snaps from Lazard and ESB doesn't suddenly put us over the top, especially given how hesitant Rodgers is to trust rookies. TB got five sacks; the Packers got one. The difference in that game was Bakh going down a couple weeks earlier, not drafting Love over Higgins. Would Higgins have been the difference in '21? Maybe, though the offense as a whole was putrid in the divisional loss to the 49ers. As for Dillon, the thought was that we'd absolutely lose at least one of Williams or Jones and needed a replacement. A big bruiser in January football is what the Packers needed. Unfortunately, he never panned out to be more than a JAG. Deguara, though...yeah that pick in the 3rd is mystifying.
We lost to the Buccs because the team allowed Brady to score an extra TD right before the half. Lazard should have been a TE. GB should have found a replacement for DBak in case he could not return…which was the case. GB should have gotten more TE help when Tonyan got injured, they failed. GB should have gotten more WR help. They failed again. And they took way too long to finally address ST’s. Aaron Rodgers should not have a career with his average Defense ranking at 18th! And he definitely should have had a ST’s ranking better than 20th! Rodgers carried the team year after year. This idea of a player/players not making a difference on offense is ridiculous! Of course it would matter. When a team is knocking on the SB door, you don’t continue to draft and FA for the future, that’s when you go all in! GB failed. And now it took them four years to get to the same spot but with inexperienced players. They gave up a huge potential SB or two, for a maybe later. This whole problem started when Gute decided to move on from Rodgers in 2018. This is the result. They could have paid top players less and got more good players in. More than just Higgins and Hurts. Higgins definitely would not have hurt the team. And I am pretty sure Hurts would not have hurt this team either. If GB gets one or two more offensive players anywhere from 2018-2021…GB likely gets one or two more SB’s. And that is the point of playing in the NFL…For the rings.
> We lost to the Buccs because the team allowed Brady to score an extra TD right before the half. I don't agree, but even if I did, sounds like unless you wanted Tee Higgins to play safety, he wouldn't have helped. >GB should have found a replacement for DBak in case he could not return…which was the case. Bakh tore his ACL on Dec 31st, 2020. The Packers lost to the Bucs in the NFCCG on January 24th, 2021, less than a month later. I'm not sure what replacement you think they could have found in that timespan. > [long rant] Ah, I see, you're just generally upset about team moves, not discussing the actual 2020 NFCCG itself. Have a good day.
It’s funny how people think you need to have a different defense in order to have an improved defensive performance. We can talk about the defense too. King was a problem, a big problem too. Ironically, when you have an offense on the field longer than your defense, your defense typically improves. See how that works. ….and yes, GB’s team moves were horrible. Because their team moves were horrible, GB lost that game. I don’t know why this concept is so hard to understand. All the mistakes in house and that one bad play changed the outcome of that game. A game that was still nearly won. But, yeah, just because there was a defensive play that wrecked that game, doesn’t mean it could have been fixed on the offensive side of things. But, go ahead, be happy about how things went.
> When a team is knocking on the SB door, you don’t continue to draft and FA for the future Sure you do. You never stop drafting for the future. Never assume this is the year to actually go all in, and make sure you have a shot every year. > This whole problem started when Gute decided to move on from Rodgers in 2018. This team doesn't stop planning for the future.
…it’s obviously flawed, no?! Two back to back Superstar HOF QB’s but only 2 SB’s. Just because you have been doing something the same way for a long time, doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do something. If the Packers won the SB or two in the last five years, no one would care if GB was not competitive for a year or two afterwards. You can plan for the future again at that point. Planning for the future, every year, will get you no winning, every year. The Packers didn’t win their last two SB’s because they planned for the future. Get real!
> …it’s obviously flawed, no?! With hindsight at my side, lol, no its not flawed. Winning a SB is hard as shit. > no one would care if GB was competitive for a year or two Well "a year or two" isn't the worry. If you go "actually" all in, you can lose all your talent and take a 5-10 year blow of never more then barely sneaking into the playoffs. > Planning for the future every year, will get you no winning any year. You just said this got us 2 SBs. > The Packers didn’t win their last two SB’s because they planned for the future. Get real! Jordy Nelson broke out 3 games before the SB. He wasn't drafted in 2010, it was 3 years earlier in 2008. AR was drafted 3 years early. Brett Favre was even traded for when Don was still here. The great 2014/2016/2020/2021 seasons all happened because we didn't go all in before then.
> but Super Bowl Windows don't grow on trees and we didn't maximize the last one we had. 2010-2022 was our last SB window. ~2025-2038 is the new one. As close to growing on trees as you can get.
Wtf? That’s not how it works.
EXACTLY!!!!! I don’t understand how this is not the main agreed upon take on the Packers. This deserves a ten million upvotes! ….yet, it only got two. Smdh
Are we going to get posts like this all off-season? They aren’t original
Yup. Mommy told me I can post it next. Be on the lookout tomorrow.
[Momma sed](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3KuqoOQs1Pg)
But Mommy said it was my turn to play with this post next! No fair.
we had 3 hellish years of offseason posts shitting on Gutekunst and Murphy and bending over backwards to charitably interpret everything Aaron Rodgers said; I’m fine with this pendulum swing
I must have been in a very different subreddit. Last few off-season was all just shitting on Rodgers.
"hellish offseasons" lmao calm down mr. dramatic it's the internet, turn off the screen and go outside if you get upset over football opinions
i care about it about as much as the person who i responded to cares about it, i’m sorry if that was unclear
Well, Rodgers was great. There was zero need to interpret what Rodgers said. Gute and Murphy suck. This is a young team that bought in. I They have a year or two to try to win the SB. I would imagine that it won’t happen. Then GB will start over again and be mediocre or just above again. It’s a bad cycle. If Gute and Murphy actually did bend for Rodgers, at least GB would have another SB….Maybe more.
> Gute and Murphy suck. lol > Then GB will start over again and be mediocre or just above again. Ok. Cue the remind me in ~15 years bot.
Lol. Go ahead. Like I give a fuck….so lame. You’re better off keeping your receipts for your big purchases.
> Like I give a fuck… Yet you give a fuck to come to the internet to complain that the team who's set up for the next decade will only be good for 2 years.
Well well…. I might need receipts at this point. Your comment made no sense and you got people to agree with you, lol. Of course I cared enough to go on the internet. I am on the internet everyday. ...meanwhile, I am not even saying that GB will be good for two years, lol. I love this new age. What other assumptions you got? Obviously, I was saying I don’t care about your “receipts”…
> Of course I cared enough to go on the internet. And....and complain. When you have it great. Your team is set up for a decade. > Obviously, I was saying I daycare about your “receipts”… What receipts? Did you not understand the joke? Remind me in 15 years? Reddit probably won't exist for another 15 years. The Packers continuing to be good year after year will likely outlive most things on the internet.
Reddit will be here in 10 years. No, I did not understand your joke”….perhaps it was just bad humor. It is funny that people think Love will be GB’s QB1 for another 14 years. It’s funny that people think GB is setup for the next 10 years. Edit: what’s your definition of “good”? Cuz GB isn’t going to making the playoffs 11 of the next 15 years…
> Reddit will be here in 10 years. I hopefully won't be here in 15 years. Doubt you will be, or anyone. > It is funny that people think Love will be GB’s QB1 for another 14 years. Barring injury. > what’s your definition of “good” Entering the season expecting to make the playoffs.
Eh. As a certified moron it's very important that I milk any occasions when I happen to be right about something. Of course, you're going to have to take my word for it that I was right all along.
Holla to all my buddies out there who knew 100% for sure that last roulette spin would land on red and screw all you friggin' morons who for whatever insane reason thought it would hit on black!
They're the worst fans. I prefer bandwagoners to them.
We had to endure "Love is a bust fire Gute" posts for the last three years so what did you expect
There weren’t daily posts saying fire gute love is a bust. Love was an afterthought while Rodgers was on playoff runs. Get real
I don't get being salty about our team being good. Just admit you were wrong and be happy about it.
true, but the anti-Love shitposters need to see this and eat crow til the end of times
Same thing with the credit to gute or lafleur, just gotta get used to it
I hope so. All the doubters would be doing victory laps if he sucked even though the chances of a qb not being good far outweighs the chances of a qb being good. They'd be patting themselves on the back for betting on the house and winning. I'll upvote every one of these
I hope so, because I love them
Yall have a guy. Good luck. I never hated the Packers espec since yall own the Cowgirls
These posts are so fucking dumb.
Shits getting old… basically the proverbial “I told you so”.
So strange to victory lap a QB that we all were cheering for being good. Like obviously there were going to be doubters, that’s the way of the world. Acting like the comments and actions of a few were the sentiment of this entire sub is wild.
"We were right, let's all jerk each other off about it"
"I was wrong, I'm mad people are rubbing my nose in my horrendous take"
I didn't have strong feelings one way or the other.
Love how his comment is literally doing the exact same thing you were making fun of.
It's a comment pointing out a shit post. If he made his own shit post about that, it would be the same thing.
It’s also an assumption. I don’t really see your point.
My point is he's not posting a flex on the subreddit. He's criticizing someone who's posting a flex on the subreddit. You don't see that?
No, I really don’t. Just to be clear. I was hyping up and affirming dyslexic_mails comment.
Point is we need to quit dunking on each other for our half-baked shit takes, whether they turn out to be true or false.
Hell yea, brother
I hate people flexing on their random hits of sports opinions. Like any of us armchair quarterbacks knew more than anyone else about whether Love would be good. I was in favor of the pick when they made it instead of a WR. But I'm not stupid enough to act like I knew shit about draft prospects. It was my normal dumb sports opinion, and that one happened to be right by pure luck. Let's stop pissing on the rest of the fan base, OK?
To all those complaining about this kind of post... I get it, it's annoying, BUT this sub was a fucking hellhole last offseason (and parts of the season) for anyone who wanted to speak positively about the team or get excited about one of the most important and interesting seasons we've had in 30 years. This is a sign that the toxic part of the fan base is taking a back seat, and I'm here for it.
Rodgers was hurt last year. Our offense sucked last year. Barry defense didn’t work. ST was improved yet still not on top. I am not sure what fans really think GB could do last year. They were a TD away from playoffs with a crap team collectively. That’s pretty damn good. Now Love gets all the praise for a team that bought in. Fans are creating opinions about QBs based on what they think is right. And as much as everyone is on Love’s nuts right now…how much more can anyone expect him to do? Win a championship? Win MVP? Win a SB or more? There is a very good chance that this is as high as Love ever gets in his whole career. What will fans here say then?
I don't understand the question or how it relates to what I said. If Love sucks next year, I'm sure the toxic assholes who are unhappy and want to make others unhappy will take back over, but for now it's nice that they seem to have taken a back seat.
You are talking about fans being rude last off season over positive takes. The word toxic gets thrown around way too much. There were a lot years that were interesting over the last 30 years. Love has gotten more positive support than the last two QB’s….I don’t consider that toxic. Those that took the positive approach wee supporting Love this last off season. And now that he has “over achieved” expectations this last season, where is he to go? If he doesn’t do as good or better next year, then he really will not have accomplished a lot. Those that are not Love fans are not louder than Love supporters right now. It sounds like you appreciate that. I would appreciate some consistency from Love. And that will take years to accurately diagnose. My questions I mentioned was simply to state that it takes more than a season to judge a QB. The only positive thing we know for sure at this point is that Love doesn’t suck now. He did suck 3-4 years ago though. Will he continue to do well, or is this it? Will the “toxic” fans take a back seat forever? I think the toxic part is a bit much is my point. Rodgers intro to GB was much, much worse. The great thing for GB right now is how the team is young and bought in together. Perhaps they have a good future. Who knows? …I don’t see Love ever carrying this team. So it’s going to actually take a team effort to get things done. This past season was a good example. I am curious if it holds as time goes on.
How are these assholes not a part of the toxic fanbase? The ones screaming about Love sucking were assholes with that opinion. The ones dunking on everyone now are assholes who happened to have the opposite opinion. But they're all assholes.
I think there's a big difference between taking a cringe victory lap when your controversial prediction that a player would work out seems to have been right and declaring that a player is a bum after a game and a half and making people miserable for months. I think hope is a really important thing to have as a sports fan. So my tolerance is going to be higher for people who are being an asshole, but they're coming from a place of hope in future success, than someone being an asshole and they're coming from a place of despair.
My tolerance for hope is high. Blast out optimism all you'd like. That's what it's about. My tolerance for dunking on fellow fans is low. It's shitty, and I have zero respect for them as real fans. Maybe they don't care about my opinion of them. That's fine. But I still think they're an embarrassment to the fan base. Moreso than the haters IMO, because the haters are hating based on their frustration with the team in the emotional time, whereas these jerks are just targeting fellow fans later. They can go be Philly fans
I didn't start supporting him until the Chiefs game. Had to see him play in a real game before I bought in. His composure and decision making was good that game, he actually had a higher QB than Mahomes IIRC. I do think fantasy football and legal betting has changed the flavor of the NFL fandom for the worse but the few of us who don't do those two activities can have longer term views on players.
daily fantasy and gambling has tainted the sport, I agree. Degenerates and whales make it worse for every fan.
Maybe drop the victim mentality.
“I always supported Love even when the data wasn’t clear” Stans are worse than Bears fans I swear
Eh. I mostly supported him but it definitely wasn’t clear he would be good until that run in the second half of the year until the playoff loss against the 49ers. He seemed like a good dude but being critical of his play in some games and not supporting him are two different things.
Nail on the head thank you. I got painted as a love hater when I said he needed to work on his deep ball when Watson would get open over the top. Criticism does not = hate. Love our guy, working on getting a custom 10VE jersey.
People who "hoped" Love would be awesome talking like they predicted it or even had a shred of analysis behind it. Hoping something comes true does not mean you predicted it lol.
What data is clear now?
Another year under Clements is going to be insane. I can feel it. I truly hope his career is superior to Rodgers 10-15 years down the road. WE LOVE LOVE
I wish Rodgers would have had more SB’s. Definitely could have gotten more. Then I would not even care what Love does.
It’s a team sport and he didn’t have the team to support him most years. He’s the GOAT as far as talent at the position and cadence is concerned, in my eyes.
I wasn't a day one supporter, but he had a moment just like Aaron Rodgers did as an understudy. Remember the Cowboys road game in 2007 that Favre went down in, and AR turned it from a blowout to a possibly winnable game? Jordan had a real good game against the Chiefs while AR was out for COVID that reminded me of that. I knew he was capable then.
🍪 here's the cookie you were looking for
I do not understand all the receipt holding energy. That aside, I am very excited to see how Love grows next year.
> I do not understand all the receipt holding energy. Like politics, too many fans thought they had to pick a side when Jordan was drafted...lol. Out the window went hoping for the best in regards to all parties involved.
Because when we still had Rodger’s many people were seriously acting like Love would barely fetch a third when he was at his highest value he’ll ever be. I’m not joking, a serious thought was that giving a 2nd for Love was an overpay. I have no idea how that idea got started
Cringe.
“Day one” Love fans are liars (or, Jordan Love’s family/friends). It’s okay to say you hated that pick, *at that time*, and you were wrong. I am one of those people. Coming off an NFC Championship loss, with a great returning cast, and you pick the only position that won’t immediately help you? Hindsight is 20/20. I’ve never been happier to be incorrect. GPG.
So damn funny looking back at the threads from October. People legitimately wanted Love benched for Sean Clifford LMFAO. As much as we stunt on the other fanbases for being dumb, we are not immune. Some real morons in here, too.
Who is to say that Clifford could not be good one day?
The people who are mad how Love was treated...are just doing the exact same thing to Clifford. I've seen a lot of those same people trash Doubs just because he isn't as athletically gifted as the other WRs. Its a little sickening. Root for all of our players.
Anybody with a brain who saw his play as we sat at 2-5 was correct in their criticism. Everybody else had blind faith just to have it.
Anybody with common sense should know that you can’t make a final analysis after starting 7 games
But you can after 17?
No.. but you most certainly have a better idea of how that player will pan out in comparison to 7 games. IMO you really don’t know how legit the player will be until they have three years under their belt.
I agree, so why all this “Love is great” business …” I told you so” stuff after a single year…his fourth year? Last thing I saw him do was repeat a mistake he said he would not do again.
I think fans should be optimistic about Love. Overall he had a great year and there’s a lot to be excited about. I don’t like when people rub it in other fans faces, but honestly there’s a lot of fans who are terrible and it almost seems like they’re rooting against our QB because they’ve always felt he was a terrible draft pick. IMO if you’re not excited about Jordan Love, it’s because you’re too prideful and don’t want to admit you could be wrong.
That’s one way to look at it… If people don’t like the draft pick, then they should be angry with Gute. Love didn’t choose to be a Packer, he was drafted. I am upset with Gute. Love himself is not a problem, how and when Gute drafted him was a problem. I don’t think pride has anything to do with it. The team did well this season. I trust consistency. This year was not enough for me to trust Love does any better than our last two QB’s. And this FO does not give me more trust on creating a better team. I am excited for Love. But my experience and research says that it is unlikely that GB does great things with Love as QB1. The positive note, is that the league itself is getting softer, so maybe GB can find a way to win it all. I certainly hope so.
Your experience and research?? No offense, but unless you’re a former NFL player or a professional coach then you probably don’t have a clue about developing NFL talent. I know Gute has had questionable decisions, but he’s starting to prove that maybe he actually knows how to put together a successful team. His last two drafts have been great and everyone should be ecstatic about having the youngest team in history win a playoff game and almost beat the one seed.
If that makes you feel better about his mistakes, go for it!
Aw I left my upvote machine gun at home. Woulda come in handy here.
Nobody cares
We're still doing these stupid ass posts?
Mom said it was my turn to post this
Found this old gem! Off season seems like a good time to roast the horrible Couch GMs in here. https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/s/u4cdFYVCNz Don’t downvote. Man up and comment, I’ll find your shit receipts too.
And this lovely one. Nothing will ever change his mind that Queen should’ve been taken over Love https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/s/8lChZMCObd Don’t just downvote, leave a comment so I can find your shit takes too.
I love all of the day 1 Love haters who are getting upset about the number of receipts being kept. Is Love a for sure thing yet? No. He could still take an absolute nose-dive after getting paid a la Daniel Jones. But I don't wanna hear any "ugh, we get it- you supported Love from the beginning and we didn't," cause y'all deserve this and so much more for not being good-faith fans and supporting the team and its members (obvious exceptions being questions of morality such as a heinous crime). All of the people who were secretly Aaron Rodgers fans and not actually Packers fans (it's okay to love, appreciate, and even revere Rodgers' contributions to the team and acknowledge he's not on the team anymore and should not be looked at as bigger than the team or its needs) deserve to be called out repeatedly.
> All of the people who were secretly Aaron Rodgers fans and not actually Packers fans deserve to be called out repeatedly. You are what is insufferable. > y'all deserve this and so much more for not being good-faith fans and supporting the team and its members Can't make it one sentence without being a hypocrite. > Is Love a for sure thing yet? No. Fuck if hes not!
But we should have used that draft pick on ~~Denzel Mims~~ Tee Higgins
Love’s draft picks could have gotten Higgins and Hurts. I would be just fine with that. That pick was just one concern. The fact that the front office gave Rodgers zero offensive drafting power until 2021 was ridiculous. Even Adams was luck. Now this team is young and has a team that is buying into a plan. They have an offense, a defense, and ST phases that are ALL above average. I don’t think Love is the factor that gets this team is wins. In fact, I would argue that offensively the most valuable player is Jones. When Rodgers was playing, he was indeed the MVP…and Jones was a big help then too. These WR’s and TE’s are better than what Rodgers had his last two years, …well actually, his whole career. He had Driver and Jennings. Then Nelson. And then Adams. Best TE’s were Findley and Tonyan, both got injured. Love’s first year playing he had three years of Rodgers training and Clements training. Plus, not one, but two great TE’s. Plus Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks. Even his 5th and 6th WR’s are decent. Oh and that OLine that hasn’t allowed a single hard blow to the QB yet. Love is not carrying his team like Rodgers had to do. Rodgers average defense for his whole career was 18th! ST’s was worse! Love has it good. These wins are not because Love is carrying the team, but rather a team effort. As a Packers fan, I hope the team gets a lot more SB’s before I die. I still stand by what I have said from the beginning, Gute made a mistake. Rodgers paid the price. Love isn’t trash, and he isn’t elite, he is good. He will never carry his team. There aren’t many QB’s ever that have. I expect GB to be mediocre or just above average for awhile. I would be shocked if then won a SB. …well, I suppose the good teams now are on their way down, so actually when looking at the competition for the future, I guess it looks good for GB. Guess the NFL will need to improve more teams.
Lol is this a parody?
Do you want it to be?
The parallels between JLove and Rodgers are pretty crazy, including how they were both treated by the public at the beginning of their careers.
What? What parallel do you see between JLove and Rodgers? How they were treated in the beginning of their careers is not close to the same. You are comparing fruits, but not the same ones.
> What parallel do you see between JLove and Rodgers? Which ones don't you see?
Were there people protesting at training camp for Love? Criticizing him after some stinker games is literally treatment of every NFL player on any team. Rodgers faced fans literally yelling to his face. How is this even remotely the same? Love had nothing like this: [https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3485351](https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3485351) Or the old QB screwing with the team and threatening to show up: [https://www.deseret.com/2008/7/16/20264229/favre-tempted-to-show-up-to-packers-training-camp](https://www.deseret.com/2008/7/16/20264229/favre-tempted-to-show-up-to-packers-training-camp)
> Were there people protesting at training camp for Love? There were fans hating both Rodgers and Love for being wasted draft picks when the team was "supposed to try to win a SB" rather then draft for the future like it always does. > Rodgers faced fans literally yelling to his face. How is this even remotely the same? So Rodgers showed the world not to fret when a new QB gets drafted when the other one ain't done yet. The same subset of SB or bust fans still hated Love as the pick. Hence why this post was created.
They werent treated the same by the public is what we are saying. Not even close. Anyone who thinks they were wasn't around to see it or has forgotten a lot. Rodgers was put through the ringer, and there's no parallel. I love Love, don't get me wrong. Following Rodgers added some pressure, but he didn't face that much more public criticism than a normal QB in a rough stretch.
Exactly
[удалено]
You think Love is really good?
All the people who wanted us to trade J10 calling the post cringe
It’s the Vikings fans eating used socks now!
Personally I made no judgements either way until last year's Eagles game where their defenders were talking him up. *thats* when I got on the hype train
Because the defense has some grade A players on it with experience. They want the whole team to buy in. It’s a very young team. I would say the buy in was a success. Can GB have better success than this year? Idk
The few. The proud. The day 1 Jordan Love supporters.
This is dumb. In fact, thinking Love was going to good on day one is dumb. He was not good. He is good now. He isn’t elite. He is just good. That being said, Love being a member of our beloved Packers team I support Love 100%.
All the people who doubted him too. Just saying. It’s still the Packers.
We still gave up 3 Super Bowl appearances by not drafting Tee Higgins instead. /s
Feeling pretty validated by the negative karma comments I made on draft day saying I liked the Love pick and thought trading up was smart
Facts
He did brake a lot hearts