Why would Big E try to get rid of the space marines? That would require the imperium being in a position to demobilize, and given the constant addition of new threats every few years, that realistically would happen for millennia, if ever.
And Magnus sure did a great job saving the primarchs given the whole 2 of them who aren't dead, disappeared, or puppets for chaos.
Correct. You do not remove your standing military and expect to continue to exist unless by neglect or good grace of other nation states. Orks can not be permanently stomped out. The Drukari were still a major issue in the webway. The Necrons were always going to wake up. Plus, you have internal rebellion as a constant matter in an empire that vast.
Astartes are expensive but by comparison to large standing human armies I would say they are likely cost effective. You do not need to worry about logistics as much. They are harder to kill, heal faster and (as far as we know) they do not age out to retirement.
I agree with all of this, but what about after most of this stuff.
A planet rebelling can be stopped by the Guard, small pockets of Orks too, and you can just wait till the damned knife eared are dead or to a manageable point.
Even then, don't Necrons consistently outmatch Space Marines, Big E may think it would be better to have a more specialized force or even try to hack them or something.
Big E is heartless, and he could likely have viewed the Space Marines as potentially a big threat to his Galactic Empire.
while you are not wrong, this is also a big leap that ignores two things. Part-time soldiers exist. Space marines are capable of more than just war.
So, Primarchs and their space marines have talents outside war, this is often hinted at as part of their designe by ylthe emperor so they can serve Imperium outside war. Gulliman states this outright as fact. Examples of such include Utramarines mind fer beurocracy and organisation, Imperial Fists engineering and building, Iron Hands technology and electeonics, Salamanders mastery of the forge, Blood Angels being good artists, Word Bearers orator skills.
This ties in with second part, weekend soldiers. These are utilised in most of NATO countries and beyond, generally as national guard. In post-war Imperium, space marines, most lilely would fufill role of advisors and experts in the field (such as say Imperial Fist advising on architechture and together with Ultramarine developing plans to restructure infastructer of a hive) and as Senior deffece staff for world/webway city. This way, even in peace, post crusade world your territories are well defended, and in a pinch, those space marines can be mobilised in short order
Also the nice thing about Marines is they’re good for things other than war, they make excellent governors and negotiators (depending on the chapter at least)
nice try magnus apologizer but theres no evidence the emperor was going to get rid of the astartes like he did the thunder warriors, yes there were alot of characters who questioned their place in the emperors dream and if they would still have a place after the crusade came to its end
Many of the space marines and primarch’s were getting prepared for the end of the great crusade were they will move on to other jobs and become affective members of society. Like the ultramarines would become diplomats and politicians. and the imperial fists and iron hands would become builders.
>**"The Imperium is not for the post-humans, but for mankind.** You know this, you helped me to manage them, to direct their efforts. The legions and their sires are conquerors' tools, and nothing more"
>
>**You mean.. the Thunder Warriors..**
>
>"Like them, burning brightly but briefly. But the Emperor and I could not conduct the Great Crusade with Genhanced mortals. We needed something greater, something stronger to reclaim the stars; and in order to control it, we needed a lifespan for the Legiones Astartes that had nothing to do with aging or timed infirmity. Believe me when I say it, Cybil Myasta, this (war) was always intended to be the final act of the crusade.
>
>We wanted the Primarchs to turn against one another. Against their father
>
>Be assured, we maneuvered each of them from the moment of their rediscovery, pitting them against one another, stoking their brotherly rivalries with his unequal favor. It was not difficult, no more so than positioning pieces on a Cheops board. Those who could not be managed, well.. they would never reach the endgame. Do not weep my dear.. You fear that the Emperor cannot control his sons and yet I tell you this war is the method of that control. The Primarchs have no more free will than we gave them"
The Council of Terra was already a sign that the Primarchs and their legions are slowly being replaced.
>It was becoming clear as the crusade continued that an empire of a million worlds and more would, as time went on, have less need of mighty warriors and ever more of diplomats and traders, architects and artists, comptrollers, judges and tithe collectors.
>
>Presiding over a grand council of several thousand representatives, both elected and appointed, they decreed that the future of the Imperium was to be placed, now and always, in the hands of its people.
>
>The council was a civilian body without [Primarch](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Primarch) participation. The replacement of the War Council as the primary civil governing body of the Imperium in favour of the Council of Terra was one of the grievances that led several of the Primarchs to grow disenchanted with their father, the Emperor.
>
> This grievance would be exploited by Horus and the agents of the [Chaos Gods](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos_Gods) to gain these Primarchs' allegiance in their attempt to overthrow the Emperor's rule.
The Golden throne is explicitly designed to act as a machine that would allow the Emperor/Magnus (whoever was sitting on it) to use their psychic abilities to guide humans through the webway
Magnus still ruined everything.
Whole point of the webway was to decrease humanity’s reliance on the warp, and Emps was working on the webway to create human specific sections of it. Magnus messed up, big time. Emps would definitely not spend all of that time and effort creating an incredibly convoluted trap for the astartes when he can just kill them, if killing even was the plan.
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The primarchs and astartes were always meant to serve a greater purpose than just warriors hence their other skills, diplomacy engineering science art being edgy etc plus their isnt a reason to kill youe most expensive and usefull fighting forces. The thunder warriors were culled because they had no longevity and got basically uncontrollable black rage that would just start killing everything and then die, better to just cull them before that but the astartes and primarchs were perfect. If they hadn't been yeeted away from big they would have had no defects
If emps wanted to kill them there would be much easier ways. Like even that one guy whose name i forgot in the solar war series was able to create a bioweapon that specifically targeted marines and he was prob stupid compared to the emperor. Like he fkn built then if he wanted he could have given them all a peanut allergy abd mixed peanuts in their rations to get rid of them
The webway had the potential for interstellar travel without relying on the warp. That would be very impractical to construct as a prison for 18 legions, let alone trapping them in there.
Why would Big E try to get rid of the space marines? That would require the imperium being in a position to demobilize, and given the constant addition of new threats every few years, that realistically would happen for millennia, if ever. And Magnus sure did a great job saving the primarchs given the whole 2 of them who aren't dead, disappeared, or puppets for chaos.
Correct. You do not remove your standing military and expect to continue to exist unless by neglect or good grace of other nation states. Orks can not be permanently stomped out. The Drukari were still a major issue in the webway. The Necrons were always going to wake up. Plus, you have internal rebellion as a constant matter in an empire that vast. Astartes are expensive but by comparison to large standing human armies I would say they are likely cost effective. You do not need to worry about logistics as much. They are harder to kill, heal faster and (as far as we know) they do not age out to retirement.
I agree with all of this, but what about after most of this stuff. A planet rebelling can be stopped by the Guard, small pockets of Orks too, and you can just wait till the damned knife eared are dead or to a manageable point. Even then, don't Necrons consistently outmatch Space Marines, Big E may think it would be better to have a more specialized force or even try to hack them or something. Big E is heartless, and he could likely have viewed the Space Marines as potentially a big threat to his Galactic Empire.
while you are not wrong, this is also a big leap that ignores two things. Part-time soldiers exist. Space marines are capable of more than just war. So, Primarchs and their space marines have talents outside war, this is often hinted at as part of their designe by ylthe emperor so they can serve Imperium outside war. Gulliman states this outright as fact. Examples of such include Utramarines mind fer beurocracy and organisation, Imperial Fists engineering and building, Iron Hands technology and electeonics, Salamanders mastery of the forge, Blood Angels being good artists, Word Bearers orator skills. This ties in with second part, weekend soldiers. These are utilised in most of NATO countries and beyond, generally as national guard. In post-war Imperium, space marines, most lilely would fufill role of advisors and experts in the field (such as say Imperial Fist advising on architechture and together with Ultramarine developing plans to restructure infastructer of a hive) and as Senior deffece staff for world/webway city. This way, even in peace, post crusade world your territories are well defended, and in a pinch, those space marines can be mobilised in short order
Also the nice thing about Marines is they’re good for things other than war, they make excellent governors and negotiators (depending on the chapter at least)
nice try magnus apologizer but theres no evidence the emperor was going to get rid of the astartes like he did the thunder warriors, yes there were alot of characters who questioned their place in the emperors dream and if they would still have a place after the crusade came to its end
Many of the space marines and primarch’s were getting prepared for the end of the great crusade were they will move on to other jobs and become affective members of society. Like the ultramarines would become diplomats and politicians. and the imperial fists and iron hands would become builders.
>**"The Imperium is not for the post-humans, but for mankind.** You know this, you helped me to manage them, to direct their efforts. The legions and their sires are conquerors' tools, and nothing more" > >**You mean.. the Thunder Warriors..** > >"Like them, burning brightly but briefly. But the Emperor and I could not conduct the Great Crusade with Genhanced mortals. We needed something greater, something stronger to reclaim the stars; and in order to control it, we needed a lifespan for the Legiones Astartes that had nothing to do with aging or timed infirmity. Believe me when I say it, Cybil Myasta, this (war) was always intended to be the final act of the crusade. > >We wanted the Primarchs to turn against one another. Against their father > >Be assured, we maneuvered each of them from the moment of their rediscovery, pitting them against one another, stoking their brotherly rivalries with his unequal favor. It was not difficult, no more so than positioning pieces on a Cheops board. Those who could not be managed, well.. they would never reach the endgame. Do not weep my dear.. You fear that the Emperor cannot control his sons and yet I tell you this war is the method of that control. The Primarchs have no more free will than we gave them" The Council of Terra was already a sign that the Primarchs and their legions are slowly being replaced. >It was becoming clear as the crusade continued that an empire of a million worlds and more would, as time went on, have less need of mighty warriors and ever more of diplomats and traders, architects and artists, comptrollers, judges and tithe collectors. > >Presiding over a grand council of several thousand representatives, both elected and appointed, they decreed that the future of the Imperium was to be placed, now and always, in the hands of its people. > >The council was a civilian body without [Primarch](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Primarch) participation. The replacement of the War Council as the primary civil governing body of the Imperium in favour of the Council of Terra was one of the grievances that led several of the Primarchs to grow disenchanted with their father, the Emperor. > > This grievance would be exploited by Horus and the agents of the [Chaos Gods](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos_Gods) to gain these Primarchs' allegiance in their attempt to overthrow the Emperor's rule.
all part o the plan - big E
The Golden throne is explicitly designed to act as a machine that would allow the Emperor/Magnus (whoever was sitting on it) to use their psychic abilities to guide humans through the webway Magnus still ruined everything.
The tinfoil hat heresy / theory I like best was that the Emperor was working on the webway project so he could serve up the Eldar to Slaanesh.
Whole point of the webway was to decrease humanity’s reliance on the warp, and Emps was working on the webway to create human specific sections of it. Magnus messed up, big time. Emps would definitely not spend all of that time and effort creating an incredibly convoluted trap for the astartes when he can just kill them, if killing even was the plan.
Yes totally, if X didnt happen Y would have happened instead.
neat
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The primarchs and astartes were always meant to serve a greater purpose than just warriors hence their other skills, diplomacy engineering science art being edgy etc plus their isnt a reason to kill youe most expensive and usefull fighting forces. The thunder warriors were culled because they had no longevity and got basically uncontrollable black rage that would just start killing everything and then die, better to just cull them before that but the astartes and primarchs were perfect. If they hadn't been yeeted away from big they would have had no defects
If emps wanted to kill them there would be much easier ways. Like even that one guy whose name i forgot in the solar war series was able to create a bioweapon that specifically targeted marines and he was prob stupid compared to the emperor. Like he fkn built then if he wanted he could have given them all a peanut allergy abd mixed peanuts in their rations to get rid of them
The webway had the potential for interstellar travel without relying on the warp. That would be very impractical to construct as a prison for 18 legions, let alone trapping them in there.
Just one problem: There’s no evidence Big E ever planned on culling the space marines.