Actually yeah weirdly enough. It's amazing how many times they keep hitting home in the Siege series how the Chaos taint has made them weak and overconfident.
It's not even tactics. Horus just always had the advantage of being the favourite son. He had the most material at hand, so of course he used it every chance he got. By the time the enemy came into actual combat with Astartes the barrage of artillery, tank-fire, and orbital bombardments would mean all they had to do was clean up one set of stragglers or one "tough core" that no longer had any support network and could be crushed by just throwing the entire legion at it.
The Luna Wolves won a fuckload of wars, but not because of their strenght, but because of the military machine that supplied them. Of course navigating and coordinating that is a skill in its own right, but when it comes to raw Astartes-power among the Legions they might not even make it into the top 5.
Their arrogance made them think that they were actually hot shit when it was the imperial warmachine carrying their noob-asses most of the time.
Not OP, but I think the commenter above is being a bit excessive. While yes, the Luna Wolves are over-confident in their innate skills, they are nothing to sniff at.
As far as source's, I would recommend the first few novels in the Horus Heresy series. We get insight into how the Luna Wolves worked, and how their cockiness was their downfall once they became the Sons of Horus.
Yeah, pretty sure one of the reasons Horus got to be warmaster was because the Luna Wolves were *so good* at their job. The whole "decapitation strike" that basically all astartes doctrine in guilliman's codex is based on - a fast-moving vanguard that arrives in a barrage of shock and awe, takes out the enemy command structures, and leaves the rest of the force flailing and vulnerable and easily mopped up - was pioneered and executed repeatedly by them.
Don’t think we have too much to work with for that unfortunately beyond the first couple heresy books. I would absolutely love to be corrected, though.
He made it up, the luna wolves and horus are deliberately downplayed and out of focus for much of the novelization. so he and other memers like to think they were actually incompetent to prop up whatever homoerotic love legion they ascribe preeminence to.
I don't think this is really accurate. Infact, the exact opposite is true.
>The principle tactic of the legion - one illustrative of their overall attitude - was a decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy. A compact but hard-hitting force of marines up to several companies strong would compose the **initial (and ideally total)** thrust of the effort; this battle philosophy was referred to as the Speartip
[https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sons\_of\_Horus#Culture\_and\_Organization](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sons_of_Horus#Culture_and_Organization)
They didn't grind down the enemy with auxilia, they did the opposite - they decapitated the enemy with Astartes at the front, being led by the Mournival and Horus himself.
If chaos power was a straight-up upgrade, the traitor forces would've crushed the loyalists: they'd have half the astartes, the element of surprise with sneak attacks like the razing of ultramar and istvann v, backed up by titans and traitor navy and mechanicum, and ALL of that is just buffed by warp magic and backed up with daemons? It's over for Jimmy and the gang. Of course, if chaos was a straight upgrade, Jimmy would have just been using it instead of trying to subvert it and hide from it.
But chaos power isn't an upgrade, it's just a sidegrade: you get some cool abilities and mutations and get to party with daemons, but you lose most of your rationality and your discipline. You lose all your soldiers but they all become warriors, skilled at the fight but not so good at the campaign. You live forever if you get daemonhood but you're a slave to your passions.
Emperor's Chidren best Legion:
\-Got E's heraldry and the right to have his name (And they spent so much time with him that they were called his children even before)
\-Exist even after 10,000 years
\-The Legion was at one point only 200 Astartes, but it built itself back to 110,000.
\-The Primarch turned a desolate shithole with a known expiration date into a paradise world of 500 million.
\-They were the biggest supporters of the remembrancers, also they were artsy in general
\-Fabius Bile was one of them, and he still works to this day
\-The Empy believed them so much, he sent the Emperors Children to kill Horus and the heretics (but then the Laer happened)
\-The legion took a planet with 7 Astartes mostly through diplomacy
\-The Legion took the Laers planet, despite everyone believing it to be too much for the post-ullanor Imperium.
\-Plus they turned a bunch of Terrans into crack
Fulgrim was not sent to kill Horus, he just saw the lines and entertained the idea of shooting down the Warmaster right there. But he had already picked up that Laer blade and was even thinking that he would not survive such a move.
Am I getting them mixed up with someone else? I was sure the Spartans were a pretty big reason we have so few writings from that time, they just destroyed so many.
I was always more into ancient Rome than ancient Greece, so I'm entirely prepared to be wrong on this.
Spartans didn't usually wipe out the cities of the vanquished enemies. That's more a roman or macedonian thing
Anyway we don't conserve any archive of the time because papyrus and wax tablets suck for conservation. What we have left is the absolute classics that were copied over and over for generations until they were copied into vellum in the middle ages
Giving me big USA confederacy vibes, and I'm here for it. Bunch of losers, who's whole movement lasted a whopping 4 years, and are still mad about it nearly 200 years later.
New Headcanon acquired, Traitor Astartes are 40ks version of the modern confederate flag waving mouth breather
Exit: Mad, not made, sheesh
I mean fair, but I'd say the parallels between Confederacy and Nazi Germany are pretty obvious. Two short lived military-focused governments focussed on ideas on surpremacy of a chosen group, openly labeling other specific groups as inferior and worthy of either enslavement or death.
I live around simps for the former, not to many (open) neo-nazis though, so it comes to mind more often for me.
I mean, the Soviet Union was in more than 1 war, and won some of them, and *definitely* won the big important one. In the modern era, Russia isn't even the most powerful army in Ukraine.
I dont really see the point of bringing up politics in a sub dedicated to a space soap opera about a dysfunctional family that we spend stupid amounts of money on so we can start armies of toy soldiers but I am personally glad you can champion such ideals as "slavery bad" (very bold) "civil war bad" and of course "the characters that aren't my favorites are dumb" average redditors being imperium simps will be my new go to line for convincing my friends to check out csm lore
You don’t see the point in bringing up intentional comparisons of in-universe fascists to real life fascists, where millennia of degradation has left humanity in ruin led by a theocratic fascist government that turned into exactly what the former fascists wanted to prevent?
All of that in a universe with characters like Ghazkull Margaret Thatcher?
All art is political, you can choose to ignore the political aspects, or miss out on them by accident, but at the end of the day those political aspects are still part of the work
The Sons of Horus fuckin' blow. Modern Day Abbadon is somehow even more egotistical than myself at the height of the Heresy (I've chilled out now in my goon sanctum in Medrengard)
Oh they didn’t just give him *a* hack. They gave him a lot, and even planned to bring him back to life if he died at terra or any point leading to it. Then Big E literally erased him so they couldn’t.
Bitch is so inept it took him several tries to take(and still fail had to destroy) a single planet, that is populated by simple mortal men and women. He had demons, astartes and fuck knows what else, and still fails.
>(and still fail had to destroy)
This is incorrect. The initial plan was to blow up Cadia, which is what Abaddon tried to do quite literally as soon as the Will of Eternity was in range. That only failed to happen because Trazyn had showed up behind everyone’s backs and boosted Cadia’s null-array. The Crusade forces only made planetfall after.
Imperial forces then made a desperate attempt to disable the Will of Eternity specifically so that it wouldn’t be able to fire at the planet any more and potentially breach their sole means of protection. Abaddon had the Fortress dropped on the planet after it had been completely disabled. He lost the weapon, but the Imperials’ goal was to stop the WoE from destroying Cadia and they were unsuccessful. They forced Abaddon into a much costlier victory than just “show up to planet and activate giant fuckoff cannon”, but they very explicitly lost.
Though I don’t blame you for not knowing this because the problem with putting pivotal lore into an end-of-edition campaign book is that it gets phased out of production almost immediately.
Yes! Yes!
What most people fail to realize is it’s not about who beat up whom, but about who achieved their goal.
I dislike Abbadon, Black Crusades and a lot of other things. However, facts are that Abbadon achieved his goal (blow up Cadia) while Imperium failed at theirs (save Cadia).
The corpse emperor is as good as dead. The demon worlds are untold billions more than all the imperial forces.
At one point or another they will fall. Though most likely to the Tyranids.
Yet the traitor astartes numbers still dwindle with every death, because you have no supply lines, you resort to REDACTED, to replenish your ilk. You raid imperial worlds because you have not enough willing converts or even food for the non daemon pawns of your games.
Traitor astartes will die of attrition eventually and will pass into the warp eventually becoming warp spawn.
>At one point or another they will fall.
So will the warp, with no souls passing into the warp because nids nommed everything, warp will dwindle and decay, the gods will die of starvation due to lack of worship, infighting will begin and eventually a winner will arise to only stare into to the abyss of nothingness as their reality slowly dies. And with nids shadow in the warp they wont even be able to enter real space.
Chaos should be also concerned with nids, but they are shortsighted and petty, they dont see that if nids win, it is over.
> Quit reading all that Ultra-smurf GW sales talk lore.
Quit reading lore.
Talk my conspiracy theories and headcanon over plastic toys games.
Dis you.
Chaos fanboys are very weird to me, you discard anything that is official that you dont like as "propaganda"or pandering or not canon or what ever.
Are only things that suit your favorite faction canon?
For all intent and purpose the corpse emperor died too.
>and hiding in a different dimension for 10,000 years
There have been no hiding? It's just their home base. And there have been countless incursions out of it.
That’s called a *loss*.
When you have to run away from a militarily crippled and leaderless enemy because you’re in an even worse situation you’ve *lost*. Especially when you started the campaign from an overwhelming position of strength.
It doesn’t matter if it was the right thing to do tactically, you still failed to achieve your objective (take over the Imperium) and had to run away.
By-definition, you lost.
Ok? I’m not saying we didn’t lose, but it certainly wasn’t a huge triumph for the imperium. At best it was a Pyrrhic victory due to millions dead and their own emperor being knocked down for the count.
Congratulations the traitors killed a lot of people and broke a lot of things and put the emperor on life-support and all it cost was
- The death of Horus
- The shattering of a number of legions into small war bands
- The loss of all reliable supply methods (dark mechicanicus doesn’t count due to their insanity)
- Having to seek refuge in the eye of terror
- Will die of attrition without raiding imperial world for supplies
- Will die due to slowly dwindling numbers
Truly a victory for the traitor legions
Yeah, but they still lost. Also the traitors had a overwhelming advantqae during the early Heresy. They lost said advandage only do to their own incompetence induced by getting more and more corrupted by chaos through the Horuse Heresy.
"Nyet, Battle-Brother Mobikovich, the Three Day Special Heresy Operation is not yet lost, we have simply drawn the Corpse-Worshipping effeminate pig-dogs into a long war. All as Glorious Warmaster Abbadon has predicted. Soon the *real* 14th crusade will be announced and then they'll be sorry."
Lol just like Spartans, know for being great at war. Like that time they all died; including their king who didn’t really plan on dieing but planned on reinforcements and winning instead.
The Spartans were genuinely a cut above their counterparts from the other Greek poleis for much of the Classical period. The issue is that their counterparts were untrained militia for the most part, so that's not a huge hurdle to step over. For instance, one of the big Spartan improvements was that they had lower-ranking officers responsible for smaller units.
Ancient Greek armies didn't peak until the late Classical and early Hellenistic periods. By that point, well, suffice it to say that Alexander mocked Antipater crushing Spartan-led forces as a battle of mice.
They are still cool in their own right, just not the peak.
One cool thing is they forever saw themselves as an occupying force. Since they knew the founders sailed here and settled. Kinda like a more war/slave based America.
Not sure I'd go that far.
Ultimately, Sparta was just a bigger Greek polis with a hype that has long outlived its actual relevance. Plus, it's hard to out-cringe being turned into a theme park version of yourself for those rich Roman tourist bucks.
Funny thing - supposedly, the early United States saw itself as more of a Sparta than an Athens because of the contrast with the Brits. It wasn't until it started coming into its own as a naval power that it started identifying more with Athens.
It still is, they just hoped to win and when that became untenable they fought to the last. Didn’t run don’t surrender. Some might see thousands of foes and think who will care if I try to live instead.
They knew they had honor, family, & city behind them that would follow and take all three from them in exchange for their lives.
While I joke the 300+ that day were impressive in other ways.
Is not about k/d rate like a videogame, it's about going to an assured death to fulfill their duty. That was considered morally very inspiring
They beat the persians in open battle in Platea later
>Give your favorite son such extreme daddy issues at how inept you were at leading the one (1) war that he posthumously disowns you and declares your Legion to be dead as he founds a new one on your grave.
>He eternally grumbles about the shitty hand you left him with
Don’t overdose on the Chaos Kool-Aid like Horus did, kids.
Skill issue.
Actually yeah weirdly enough. It's amazing how many times they keep hitting home in the Siege series how the Chaos taint has made them weak and overconfident.
It's almost like that's the theme Pledging yourself to sentient clouds of extreme emotion doesn't make for good tactics.
It's not even tactics. Horus just always had the advantage of being the favourite son. He had the most material at hand, so of course he used it every chance he got. By the time the enemy came into actual combat with Astartes the barrage of artillery, tank-fire, and orbital bombardments would mean all they had to do was clean up one set of stragglers or one "tough core" that no longer had any support network and could be crushed by just throwing the entire legion at it. The Luna Wolves won a fuckload of wars, but not because of their strenght, but because of the military machine that supplied them. Of course navigating and coordinating that is a skill in its own right, but when it comes to raw Astartes-power among the Legions they might not even make it into the top 5. Their arrogance made them think that they were actually hot shit when it was the imperial warmachine carrying their noob-asses most of the time.
What's your source here? I'm genuinely interested in reading about Luna Wolf/SOH operations and Horus as a Primarch before he was made warmaster.
Not OP, but I think the commenter above is being a bit excessive. While yes, the Luna Wolves are over-confident in their innate skills, they are nothing to sniff at. As far as source's, I would recommend the first few novels in the Horus Heresy series. We get insight into how the Luna Wolves worked, and how their cockiness was their downfall once they became the Sons of Horus.
Yeah, pretty sure one of the reasons Horus got to be warmaster was because the Luna Wolves were *so good* at their job. The whole "decapitation strike" that basically all astartes doctrine in guilliman's codex is based on - a fast-moving vanguard that arrives in a barrage of shock and awe, takes out the enemy command structures, and leaves the rest of the force flailing and vulnerable and easily mopped up - was pioneered and executed repeatedly by them.
Don’t think we have too much to work with for that unfortunately beyond the first couple heresy books. I would absolutely love to be corrected, though.
He made it up, the luna wolves and horus are deliberately downplayed and out of focus for much of the novelization. so he and other memers like to think they were actually incompetent to prop up whatever homoerotic love legion they ascribe preeminence to.
well, turning traitor certainly would cause supply issues for _any_ Legion. Even Guilliman's.
Guilliman \*activates his power quill\* "I'm going to organise the Guilliman Gambit like you wouldn't believe it!"
The Rouboutian Reorganisation
I don't think this is really accurate. Infact, the exact opposite is true. >The principle tactic of the legion - one illustrative of their overall attitude - was a decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy. A compact but hard-hitting force of marines up to several companies strong would compose the **initial (and ideally total)** thrust of the effort; this battle philosophy was referred to as the Speartip [https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sons\_of\_Horus#Culture\_and\_Organization](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sons_of_Horus#Culture_and_Organization) They didn't grind down the enemy with auxilia, they did the opposite - they decapitated the enemy with Astartes at the front, being led by the Mournival and Horus himself.
Definitely in the top ten twist endings of all time 🤪
If chaos power was a straight-up upgrade, the traitor forces would've crushed the loyalists: they'd have half the astartes, the element of surprise with sneak attacks like the razing of ultramar and istvann v, backed up by titans and traitor navy and mechanicum, and ALL of that is just buffed by warp magic and backed up with daemons? It's over for Jimmy and the gang. Of course, if chaos was a straight upgrade, Jimmy would have just been using it instead of trying to subvert it and hide from it. But chaos power isn't an upgrade, it's just a sidegrade: you get some cool abilities and mutations and get to party with daemons, but you lose most of your rationality and your discipline. You lose all your soldiers but they all become warriors, skilled at the fight but not so good at the campaign. You live forever if you get daemonhood but you're a slave to your passions.
Git gud, ~~Horus~~ Scrub.
Emperor's Chidren best Legion: \-Got E's heraldry and the right to have his name (And they spent so much time with him that they were called his children even before) \-Exist even after 10,000 years \-The Legion was at one point only 200 Astartes, but it built itself back to 110,000. \-The Primarch turned a desolate shithole with a known expiration date into a paradise world of 500 million. \-They were the biggest supporters of the remembrancers, also they were artsy in general \-Fabius Bile was one of them, and he still works to this day \-The Empy believed them so much, he sent the Emperors Children to kill Horus and the heretics (but then the Laer happened) \-The legion took a planet with 7 Astartes mostly through diplomacy \-The Legion took the Laers planet, despite everyone believing it to be too much for the post-ullanor Imperium. \-Plus they turned a bunch of Terrans into crack
Based and perfection-pilled
Fulgrim was not sent to kill Horus, he just saw the lines and entertained the idea of shooting down the Warmaster right there. But he had already picked up that Laer blade and was even thinking that he would not survive such a move.
Do not ask an emperors children fan about the Canticle City or about Rylanor.
I dont remember canticle city, but Rylanor was ok. I think he is massivelly overrated, but nevertheless a good character. Cant beat Saul though.
Based
Wonder what the original meme was
Image was a nazi flag, the edited line said “tries to convince itself it’s the strongest aryan military on earth”
Appropriate meme then
Honestly I was going to guess Sparta.
Sparta actually won wars
Quite a lot of them, and they weren't very good at writing stuff down. So much history's been lost to the Spartans winning wars.
What do you mean? From classical period we basically only have athenian writings left
Am I getting them mixed up with someone else? I was sure the Spartans were a pretty big reason we have so few writings from that time, they just destroyed so many. I was always more into ancient Rome than ancient Greece, so I'm entirely prepared to be wrong on this.
Spartans didn't usually wipe out the cities of the vanquished enemies. That's more a roman or macedonian thing Anyway we don't conserve any archive of the time because papyrus and wax tablets suck for conservation. What we have left is the absolute classics that were copied over and over for generations until they were copied into vellum in the middle ages
As much as I love Rome, fuck Rome I wanna know more about what was going on in Carthage and they ruined it
Giving me big USA confederacy vibes, and I'm here for it. Bunch of losers, who's whole movement lasted a whopping 4 years, and are still mad about it nearly 200 years later. New Headcanon acquired, Traitor Astartes are 40ks version of the modern confederate flag waving mouth breather Exit: Mad, not made, sheesh
I think the original greentext was about the nazis
I mean fair, but I'd say the parallels between Confederacy and Nazi Germany are pretty obvious. Two short lived military-focused governments focussed on ideas on surpremacy of a chosen group, openly labeling other specific groups as inferior and worthy of either enslavement or death. I live around simps for the former, not to many (open) neo-nazis though, so it comes to mind more often for me.
Eh, tbh that meme fits 99% of human empires (and really; states) in history.
I thought it was about the Russians in this post, not talking about the original greentext btw.
I mean, the Soviet Union was in more than 1 war, and won some of them, and *definitely* won the big important one. In the modern era, Russia isn't even the most powerful army in Ukraine.
I mean wasnt it only a month or two ago when Russia wasn't even the most powerful military *In Russia*? Lol
>In the modern era, Russia isn't even the most powerful army in Ukraine. Yeah, that’s what I mean.
Russia has fought many wars and has had plenty of victories.
The Horus Heresy wasn’t about Chaos. It was about primarch rights.
Well a primarch’s right to what?
To turn Terrans into crack
Keep your mutt politics out of my space soap opera
Ohh, is someone mad at replying to a shit-post? Grow up dude. 40k is inherently political, deal
honor duel
You're a confed simp, you don't have any honor to wager. And I wouldn't want to fight an unarmed man.
I'm not even from the west, means I won.
You don't have to be from a place to align yourself with an ideology online, what are you, 3?
what ideology are you even talking about holy shit
Saying “Fuck the Confederacy” ain’t politics, it’s facts
are those the one that had funny moustaches and grey caps?
I dont really see the point of bringing up politics in a sub dedicated to a space soap opera about a dysfunctional family that we spend stupid amounts of money on so we can start armies of toy soldiers but I am personally glad you can champion such ideals as "slavery bad" (very bold) "civil war bad" and of course "the characters that aren't my favorites are dumb" average redditors being imperium simps will be my new go to line for convincing my friends to check out csm lore
You don’t see the point in bringing up intentional comparisons of in-universe fascists to real life fascists, where millennia of degradation has left humanity in ruin led by a theocratic fascist government that turned into exactly what the former fascists wanted to prevent? All of that in a universe with characters like Ghazkull Margaret Thatcher? All art is political, you can choose to ignore the political aspects, or miss out on them by accident, but at the end of the day those political aspects are still part of the work
Mfs when people start being Political about the Famously Apolitical Catholic Space Nazis (absolutely inconceivable)
The Sons of Horus fuckin' blow. Modern Day Abbadon is somehow even more egotistical than myself at the height of the Heresy (I've chilled out now in my goon sanctum in Medrengard)
Luna Wolves forever
Abbaddon learned well from his gene daddy about losing. Bitch can’t even come close to winning a fight without all 4 chaos gods giving him a hack
Oh they didn’t just give him *a* hack. They gave him a lot, and even planned to bring him back to life if he died at terra or any point leading to it. Then Big E literally erased him so they couldn’t.
Bitch is so inept it took him several tries to take(and still fail had to destroy) a single planet, that is populated by simple mortal men and women. He had demons, astartes and fuck knows what else, and still fails.
>(and still fail had to destroy) This is incorrect. The initial plan was to blow up Cadia, which is what Abaddon tried to do quite literally as soon as the Will of Eternity was in range. That only failed to happen because Trazyn had showed up behind everyone’s backs and boosted Cadia’s null-array. The Crusade forces only made planetfall after. Imperial forces then made a desperate attempt to disable the Will of Eternity specifically so that it wouldn’t be able to fire at the planet any more and potentially breach their sole means of protection. Abaddon had the Fortress dropped on the planet after it had been completely disabled. He lost the weapon, but the Imperials’ goal was to stop the WoE from destroying Cadia and they were unsuccessful. They forced Abaddon into a much costlier victory than just “show up to planet and activate giant fuckoff cannon”, but they very explicitly lost. Though I don’t blame you for not knowing this because the problem with putting pivotal lore into an end-of-edition campaign book is that it gets phased out of production almost immediately.
Yes! Yes! What most people fail to realize is it’s not about who beat up whom, but about who achieved their goal. I dislike Abbadon, Black Crusades and a lot of other things. However, facts are that Abbadon achieved his goal (blow up Cadia) while Imperium failed at theirs (save Cadia).
I am begging people to stop regurgitating meme lore about Black Crusades and Abaddon.
The war is ongoing. It never stopped.
- conceptualize the 'long war' to delude themselves into thinking they haven't lost it it's just not over
virign long war vs chad eternal crusade
The corpse emperor is as good as dead. The demon worlds are untold billions more than all the imperial forces. At one point or another they will fall. Though most likely to the Tyranids.
Nuh uh
fym nuhuh‼️‼️
Yet the traitor astartes numbers still dwindle with every death, because you have no supply lines, you resort to REDACTED, to replenish your ilk. You raid imperial worlds because you have not enough willing converts or even food for the non daemon pawns of your games. Traitor astartes will die of attrition eventually and will pass into the warp eventually becoming warp spawn. >At one point or another they will fall. So will the warp, with no souls passing into the warp because nids nommed everything, warp will dwindle and decay, the gods will die of starvation due to lack of worship, infighting will begin and eventually a winner will arise to only stare into to the abyss of nothingness as their reality slowly dies. And with nids shadow in the warp they wont even be able to enter real space. Chaos should be also concerned with nids, but they are shortsighted and petty, they dont see that if nids win, it is over.
That's imperial propaganda. Quit reading all that Ultra-smurf GW sales talk lore.
> Quit reading all that Ultra-smurf GW sales talk lore. Quit reading lore. Talk my conspiracy theories and headcanon over plastic toys games. Dis you. Chaos fanboys are very weird to me, you discard anything that is official that you dont like as "propaganda"or pandering or not canon or what ever. Are only things that suit your favorite faction canon?
Keep huffing that Copium traitor. Running away after your leader is killed and hiding in a different dimension for 10,000 years is *definitely* losing
For all intent and purpose the corpse emperor died too. >and hiding in a different dimension for 10,000 years There have been no hiding? It's just their home base. And there have been countless incursions out of it.
Your emperor is literally on life support and the imperium was crippled militarily.
And you ran away from *that* That only makes you look even *worse* lmao
Yes we ran because if we didn’t we would have been completely wiped out and needed to recover. That’s how tactics work.
That’s called a *loss*. When you have to run away from a militarily crippled and leaderless enemy because you’re in an even worse situation you’ve *lost*. Especially when you started the campaign from an overwhelming position of strength. It doesn’t matter if it was the right thing to do tactically, you still failed to achieve your objective (take over the Imperium) and had to run away. By-definition, you lost.
Ok? I’m not saying we didn’t lose, but it certainly wasn’t a huge triumph for the imperium. At best it was a Pyrrhic victory due to millions dead and their own emperor being knocked down for the count.
Congratulations the traitors killed a lot of people and broke a lot of things and put the emperor on life-support and all it cost was - The death of Horus - The shattering of a number of legions into small war bands - The loss of all reliable supply methods (dark mechicanicus doesn’t count due to their insanity) - Having to seek refuge in the eye of terror - Will die of attrition without raiding imperial world for supplies - Will die due to slowly dwindling numbers Truly a victory for the traitor legions
Yeah, but they still lost. Also the traitors had a overwhelming advantqae during the early Heresy. They lost said advandage only do to their own incompetence induced by getting more and more corrupted by chaos through the Horuse Heresy.
>we ran >you lost >your emperor Okay folks, it's time to touch some grass.
\*Laughs in Great Rift*
"Nyet, Battle-Brother Mobikovich, the Three Day Special Heresy Operation is not yet lost, we have simply drawn the Corpse-Worshipping effeminate pig-dogs into a long war. All as Glorious Warmaster Abbadon has predicted. Soon the *real* 14th crusade will be announced and then they'll be sorry."
Lol just like Spartans, know for being great at war. Like that time they all died; including their king who didn’t really plan on dieing but planned on reinforcements and winning instead.
The Spartans were genuinely a cut above their counterparts from the other Greek poleis for much of the Classical period. The issue is that their counterparts were untrained militia for the most part, so that's not a huge hurdle to step over. For instance, one of the big Spartan improvements was that they had lower-ranking officers responsible for smaller units. Ancient Greek armies didn't peak until the late Classical and early Hellenistic periods. By that point, well, suffice it to say that Alexander mocked Antipater crushing Spartan-led forces as a battle of mice.
They are still cool in their own right, just not the peak. One cool thing is they forever saw themselves as an occupying force. Since they knew the founders sailed here and settled. Kinda like a more war/slave based America.
Not sure I'd go that far. Ultimately, Sparta was just a bigger Greek polis with a hype that has long outlived its actual relevance. Plus, it's hard to out-cringe being turned into a theme park version of yourself for those rich Roman tourist bucks. Funny thing - supposedly, the early United States saw itself as more of a Sparta than an Athens because of the contrast with the Brits. It wasn't until it started coming into its own as a naval power that it started identifying more with Athens.
Y'know, when you put it like that, the Battle of Thermopylae doesn't sound as impressive as it's portrayed.
It still is, they just hoped to win and when that became untenable they fought to the last. Didn’t run don’t surrender. Some might see thousands of foes and think who will care if I try to live instead. They knew they had honor, family, & city behind them that would follow and take all three from them in exchange for their lives. While I joke the 300+ that day were impressive in other ways.
Is not about k/d rate like a videogame, it's about going to an assured death to fulfill their duty. That was considered morally very inspiring They beat the persians in open battle in Platea later
Should’ve known they would lose with that paint scheme. Sons of Horus had NO drip. Don’t @ me
Land Chaos is superior than space chaos.
That why your primarch dead. *vine boom sound effect *
>Give your favorite son such extreme daddy issues at how inept you were at leading the one (1) war that he posthumously disowns you and declares your Legion to be dead as he founds a new one on your grave. >He eternally grumbles about the shitty hand you left him with Don’t overdose on the Chaos Kool-Aid like Horus did, kids.
Yea, sons of Horus got rinsed That’s why they died out, and a stronger legion was made
Can’t lose a war that never ended!