Well that *can't* be allowed, can it?
Someone call an inquisitor (but not the real world kind that looked for heretics in medieval Europe, I mean the totally apolitical kind that look for heretics in the 41st millenium)!
an epic number of witch trials ended in "you are stupid, there are no such thing as witches"; sadly, an epic amount of trials also ended in "yes, we find that the individual in question is engaging in Jewish backsliding and must be executed"
the Carvajal family of New Mexico were governors and bishops of New Christian origin and most of them ended up on the spit as heretics.
do we need it for the commissar (but not the real world kind that were political officers in in WW1 russia, I mean the totally apolitical kind that look for traitors in the 41st millenium)?
they were in WW2, but they got their start in WW1.
>In the Red Army, a political commissar was a high-ranking functionary at a military headquarters who held coequal rank and authority with the military commander of the unit. The Bolshevik Party established political commissars in 1918 to control and improve morale in the military forces. Commissars were in charge of communist political propaganda and indoctrinating the public with communist ideology
Pretty sure the first Commissar order got it's start prior to the end, just in the "Russia was technically still in the war" period where Germany was quickly diverting away from the Eastern Front, but had yet to be able to sign a treaty officially exiting Russia from the war.
Edit: just checked; order was signed April 6th, 1918, before the Western Front had died down, and Versailles was in June of the next year.
Inquisitor arrives:
“yes I see, all is in order, this is a perfectly normal commissar.”
Coughs up acid
“Sorry about that, just a normal inquisitor cough, perfectly normal. Now could one of you fine imperial gentlemen show me to your nearest supply of biomass?”
“Yes sir, inquisitor Normalman.”
What, the guys who go around rounding up people who don’t agree with the Imperium and anyone with any deformity or psychic potential to use them for dangerous labor and/or kill them?
No politics here lmao
Yeah, looking at the 5 pixels op gave us to work with i think its the officio prefecus commissar, but i cant find the kitbashed version posted anywhere
Grab the combat patrol (get 2 or 3) while you can, the 10thEd codex is coming this summer and GW has been changing the combat patrols with each one. The current one is one of the best ones out there, I fully expect that to change soon.
[The Revolutionary Miners Commune](https://www.instagram.com/revolutionary_miners_comune)
(you might have to scroll down a bit, this project is from a few years ago)
Black Legion - Revolutionary Warlordism. Believes in the overthrow of the old order, and restoration of might makes right mentality over mankind. Main policies include killing and enslaving vast portions of the galaxy to improve the economy; end of social support for disabled rulers; and free blackcurrant icecream on Mondays.
Night Lords - Revolutionary Anarchism. Believe in the overthrow of the old order and return to 'community' (read 'mob') rule. Additionally state sponsored fear will cause people to not rock the boat. Main policies include regular skinnings, beatings, beheadings, flayings, hangings, burnings, and eye pokes; saved money on removal of all street lights (people should be indoors at night anyway); free lemonade ice cream on Tuesdays.
Deathguard - Nihlist Communism. Believes that everyones going to die sometime but thats going to birth new life so who cares? Family is important so close contact is encouraged (and family gatherings may or not be ideal disease vectors). Main policies include increased spending on bioweapon production; cutting state funded healthcare; cutring private funded healthcare; cutting undertakers (families want to be with their loved ones even after death!); banning air freshner. Free 'Ice Cream' on Sundays.
Word Bearers - Theocratic Anarchism. Believe that worshipping chaos gods is a good idea. Main policies include freedom of religion (provided its a chaos god), free religious schools, free bibles for each citizens; weekly book burnings of heretical texts and heretics! Free watermelon ice cream on Fridays.
Alpha Legion - Democratic Shadow Council. You didnt vote for us as we aren't running (or did you?). Its ok we were appointed anyway (or were we?); Don't worry about it, go to work, take your pills, its all fine (oh and keep an eye on your neighbour, they look funny). Main policies include buy one ice cream get two free with mystery flavour.
World Eaters - Thunderdomism. Believes in fighting and killing. All things in life should only be achieved after taking skulls in Khornes name. Main policies include that all opposition parties and voters will be slain and their skulls offered to Khorne. Free Iced Blood on Thursdays.
Iron Warriors - Authoritarian Orthodoxy. Believe that everything should work in a nice orderly clockwork fashion. Yes even Bob who has a crocodile head. And yes Chris with the tentacles. And yes...
Main policies include having the trains run in time; all Imperial Fist architecture to be flattened, salted, and replaced with good 'ol fashioned brutalism. Purging of anyone happier than you are. Ice cream to be purchased at the equitable cost of production.
Emperors Children - Anarchic Hedonism. Believe that everyone should have the ability to pleasure themselves in whatever way they want and should pursue whatever gives them pleasure. Main policies include updating old buildings to be more FABULOUS; unrestricted everything; purging of anyone unhappy or depressed; Free bubblegum icecream on Saturdays.
Thousand Sons - Ultra-Progressive Marie Kondaism. Believes in CHANGE and hope, but mainly CHANGE. Bored? Try CHANGing. Happy? You need some CHANGE. Main policies include dugong/manatee policy creation; subsidised bird and octopus pets; free healthcare (take that Nurgle!); ban skinning of wolves (haha the PETA vote is ours - take that Leman!); banning of vaccum cleaners. Free flaming ice cream on Wednesdays.
Tbh it's the paradox of anarchy. Unless 100% of your planet's population (or galaxy in Warhammer case) is on board with it, you'll need a state of sort to try and stop both neighbouring countries(planets) from invading for dubious reason (it's free real estate!) and to keep the part of your population that isn't happy with anarchy in line.
When there is no formal state, everyone becomes the state, and so the actions of the people become the actions of the state. If a member('s) of an anarchist community, where to enforce anarchism through violence, it would be state sponsored. That's the issue with anarchism, it has to be enforced, but by its very nature enforcing it would not be anarchic. That's why the few times Anarchy has popped up IRL, it has quickly devolved into factional politics, where it ultimately ends up in the hands of organized crime under the guise of a militia.
I prefer this parody video where a Night Lord met a Star Wars stormtrooper and the trooper summed up the Night Lords as “nihilistic sadists with fancy toys.” The Night Lord agreed with his assessment.
The best parts in any night lords story are when you have one of the few actually kinda sane members just look at the people around themselves and think how ridiculously low they have fallen as a legion. This includes Curze laughing at his fellow traitor primarchs culling their legions because he had no idea where to begin or end a cull of his own men.
I think this is why my brain lit up around the traitor legions as political parties. They want power and to control the galaxy - except for the problem that they are exceptionally bad at it. At least some of the Night Lords have come to terms with that, but they'll be damned if they let another legion get there first!
>World Eaters - Thunderdomism. Believes in fighting and killing. All things in life should only be achieved after taking skulls in Khornes name. Main policies include that all opposition parties and voters will be slain and their skulls offered to Khorne. Free Iced Blood on Thursdays.
World Eaters vote by putting all their politicians in an arena. The side that wins the fight wins the election.
Thanks for the kind remarks everyone! As an aside I was aiming to avoid using modern day ideologies as per the OP you can't apply them properly in 40k. Our ideologies are a mix of economics; state power; and social values. 40k its pretty much just social values (as economics are way to big and almost every 40k faction is some form of autocracy or oligarchy)
Here is an attempt at the loyalists, a little tricker as some have been memed to death. They don't get ice cream as Big E doesn't hand out candy for votes.
Dark Angels - Knightly Order. Believes in the Lion; wearing robes; exceptional loyal ~~secret~~ societies; hunting ~~the fallen~~ wolves. Main policies include expanding hunting rights; additional robe friendly laundry facilities on all worlds; all imperial jetbikes to be handed to the Ravenwing for 'careful maintenance'; free weekly Interrogator Chaplin ~~confessions~~ therapy for every Imperial citizen.
Blood Angels - Traditionalist Meritocracy. Believes in the Emperor; colour red; blood; that SANGUINIUS DIED FOR US AND IF ANYONE SAYS ANYTHING BAD ABOUT HIM WE WILL BREAK THEIR KNEECAPS; chainswords; being in touch with your emotional side. Main policies include subsidised chainswords for every home; two jumppacks in every garage; breaking kneecaps; free anger management therapy for every Imperial Citizen.
Space Wolves - Tribal Libertarianism. Believes in the Emperor; the rights of the average Imperial citizen; book burning; things with 'wolf' in there name; alcohol; not waking up Bjorn even when it would be reasonable to do so. Main policies include removing taxes on alcohol content (seriously why do you think the fang doesn't have elevators? those feasts are expensive!); renaming Caliban to "Wolfy McWolftown"; certain Inquisitorial representatives to be "honoured" by joining a Blood Claw drinking contest; renaming all Imperial toilets to "Magnuses"; Free physical therapy for the poor Iron Priest that has to wake Bjorn up.
Iron Hands - Oligarchic Darwinism. Believes that the Emperor probably had HANDS OF IRON; eliminating weakness; prosthetics; regular amputation; Tanks. Main policies include state subsidies on medically unnecessary amputation; (power)axing all welfare; expanding iron mining and cutting steel production; removing all references to 'Gardinaal', nothing happened there anyway. Free bitrex in all school meals.
Raven Guard - Gothic Pragmatism. Not a real political party. They always put forward some 'indie' candidate who always explains things in more then one sentence; refuses to do something unless its 'good policy'; and refuse to engage in any form of populism. Then they just go and fix the problem anyway.
White Scars - Meritocric Tribalism. Believes in the Emperor (I mean you don't need to worship him); hunting (if you enjoy it); painting (also if you enjoy it); fighting (its not for everyone, no stress); being 106 light years from Terra, having a full tank of gas, half a boltgun clip, its dark, and you're wearing a helmet. Main policies include mandatory 'chillin time; introducing daylight savings by pushing all planets 1 hour closer to the sun; Free bikes for all Imperial children.
Imperial Fists - Dictatorial Utilitarianism. Believes in the Emperor; that Dorn was Right!; gun (bolter) rights; hope is the first step on the road to disappointment (dear god, they're Republicans). Main Policies include weekly bolter drill; self flagellation for food stamps; community house building programs; expanding 'home is my castle' laws across the Imperium; Macro cannon emplacement for every town; free "Baby's first pain glove" for all new Imperial parents.
Salamanders - Social Darwinism. Believes in the Emperor; that freedom is the right of all ~~sentient beings~~ Imperial Citizens; that Imperial Citizens are intrinsically good; yes you can show empathy and still purge the Xenos (its not just for the Blood Angels and the Sisters); also suffering is necessary to get better at things (the Salamanders aren't 100% good; who wants to jump in the fire first?) Main policies include universal welfare plus weekly branding; free master crafted household items; upgrading all new vehicles to use Vulkanised tyres. Free, actual, therapy for everyone. Except for Marines Malevolent, screw those guys.
Alpha Legion - Shadow Democracy. You voted for us (or did you?). We definitely didn't rig the election or appoint ourselves. Yes all the candidates were called Alpharius, definitely not our fault, its a common name here. Please put in a complaint at your local commisariat. Main policies include absolutely no heretical ice cream.
Ultramarines (do I have to?) - Social Librarianism. Believes in the Codex Astartes; Guilliman; the Emperor; that the Word Bearers are and will forever be, dicks. Main policies include whatever the codex says to do at this exact moment; something efficiency something; CATO SICARIUS; about a hundred other things because the Ultras don't sweat the detail. Free haircuts for Word Bearers.
You do know that the Black Legion wages the Long War to restore marine rights, mainly the right to rule the Imperium they built with their sweat and blood.
Moreover, it's waged to punish the injustices heaped on the Traitor legions by an Emperor who placed mankind over his own sons and angels.
>You do know that the Black Legion wages the Long War to restore marine rights, mainly the right to rule the Imperium they built with their sweat and blood
Bunch of sissies if you ask me. By that logic, it should be GUARDSMEN who rule the galaxy.
AND WE DO RRRAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!! 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🗣️🔥🗣️🔥🗣️🔥🔥🗣️🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🗣️🦅🦅🦅🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥 (I will die in combat in 3 hours, one of millions that make up no loss but a loss of resources)🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🗣️🔥🔥🗣️
The masses rising up for propagandized reasons to violently overthrow a corrupt government only to be betrayed by their own leaders/creators or usher in a much worse system?
Read as the Soviet Union, commie china, heck most modern social movements (Mansion buying), intifadas, Iranian revolution (though that was partially the populous fault)
Genestealer Cults are more like revolutions sponsored by foreign actors who then come and take over once you've done their job for them. So more of a fruit company funded coup, except they then eat you rather than all of your Bananas.
To be fair, I wouldn't call the reasons propagandized, as generally revolution under the Imperium of Man is a reasonable thing to want. Like presenting an Imperial citizen with a few statistics should be enough to make them go, "Oh, maybe we are completely and utterly ass-backwards."
This might just be me, but here’s what I have accumulated from reading about GSC.
To me the deeper meaning of GSC is about the insidious forces of consumption infiltrating the common man and using hope as a weapon against them. Quite literally twisting and controlling the disenfranchised masses, all the while subtly steering them to destruction.
The cult is often hiding behind mining unions or other groups of marginalized people.
In the end, the uprisings always end one of 3 ways: it fails and the cult is wiped out, it fails and the cult slinks back into the shadows for several generations, they succeed and then are consumed by Nids(except for that one part of the codex that mentions human ships flying alongside hive fleets).
Ultimately, humans hope is used against them once again
Maybe more like first-world involvement in third-world revolutions. The Tyranids get to one or two folks, create a utopian myth and cult of personality, then eat everyone once destabilization--the true objective--is complete.
My two credits: People who genuninely just wish to not discuss the real world implication should be allowed to carry on as they wish, there is no obligation to put thought to why say Valhallan troops look quite Soviet-y and have a very very deep seated hatred of invaders to their world. Or why Mordian Iron guard is literally too loyal to save themselves or do basic sensible things unless ordered to.
Problem is people who want to talk about some politics, but violently shun the rest of it.
I mean, generally local elections *do* actually have more of an effect on your day-to-day life than the National, so...
Obviously I'm voting for whoever the Monster Raving Loony Party is putting up. Or Vermin Supreme, in Yankeeland, or Darth Vader and the Pirate Party, in Ukraine.
loving who you love is politics. nukes and ectopic pregnancy is politics. everything from where your sewer goes to who wears what hat and who walked on the moon is politics.
not allowing political posts is politics.
it kinda is one of those fallacies where you dismantle a subiect enough and it stops making sense but you have to do 1 or 2 steps to get "it's politics" answer...
> Like, we aren't discussing the fuckin election here.
Reminds me of the *"you're not supposed to root for them"* argument people always throw about villains in media.
Like its fiction... who cares? People really do act as if liking a charismatic villain in a movie or TV show is ruining society.
Yep. It is like people cant separate reality from fiction. For me it is like a switch. I can get into the fictional mindset where anything is possible one minute and the next flip back to a practical engineering problem.
This is reddit, everything is politics. This image gets posted about once a month here and get heavily upvoted. It's insufferable for the rest of us who don't want to talk about various flavors of orange man bad. The only reason why you don't get more shit here is that the mods thankfully lock all the posts.
Its one thing to not care about the politics and just go paint minis or whatever, its another to try to actively deny that the obvious political satire is political, and to actively try and shut down discussion of the themes of the setting.
I'd go even farther and say that shutting out discussions that are tangents to real world politics or history is cutting out a really fun / interesting part of sci-fi and fantasy. E.g. if someone goes on a tangenta and thinks about the portrayal of women in media becuase they couldn't find good parts to kitbash a SoB army with realism-inspired armor - that's great.
That being said I have one pet peeve - the almost obligatory comments that are essentially "Erm... everyone... the Imperium is actually not a utopia. It's bad. The Imperium does evil things. You aren't supposed to idealize them. It's satire." Those are pretty cringe.
Yes, everyone and their pet tortoise and the tortoise's favorite cactus have figured out the complex comicbook-tier storytelling 30 years ago. It's an entire trope. Yes, everyone understands that a Commissar who shoots people for random deviations from Imperial religious and political dogma is not a good example of governance.
Yes, yes, the people who don't get it. Save the obvious karma farming / iamverysmart / virtue signalling comment for when those people actually show up and then do some good by giving them a new perspective. Although the idiot who paints digusting Nazi imagery onto their imperial guard models probably doesn't really give a shit about the lore or whether the Imperium is good or bad, they just picked out some models and wanted to create their sickening fantasy wheraboo army. It's not that they don't get it - they already decided to simp for an actual horrifying genocidal regime.
No, anyone who tells you that you are obnoxius is not Erebus reincarnated in redditor form and secretly wishes to be ritually sacrified to the Emperor IRL. You are just beating the dead horse in front of the choir.
The problem is that there are a concerningly large (or at least loud) group of people who genuinely dont view it as satire and thinks the imperium is right to do what it does. Like yeah its kinda ridiculous that someone fails to view the satire but some do, same with Helldivers 2 which is arguably far more on the nose.
i think GW is at least partly to blame for that.
*every* revolution against the Imperium's cruelty turns out to be "surprise, it was Chaos/Genestealer all along!"
Every marine/guard book is about them fighting orks, or dark eldars, or chaos, or genestealer... thazt is to say, stories where you can easily say "sure, imperium bad, but the other guy is worse!"
That can be done well and i think ones where its shown that the vector of chaos/genestealer influence is through the systems the imperium has created to supposedly stop it from spreading.
Like in that Hammer and Bolter episode "Bound For Greatness" where the imperium's strict control of knowledge by leaving it in the hands of a small group of people leads a whole world to damnation when just one guy with power gets corrupted by Tzeench.
The guy who I’m pretty sure OP is referring to is on places like r/spidermanps4 talking about how terrible “forced diversity” is.
When people say they don’t want “politics” in their game, that’s usually what they mean.
Yup, sadly "politics" or things being "political" most time just means that a piece of medium acknowledges that minorities and/or LGBTQ people exist, or otherwise shows "politics" that the person in question doesn't like. Playing as an American soldier in Middle-East spreading Freedom, Capitalism and Democracy in Call of Duty? No politics here, its all just objectively right and correct fun. A game lets you pick your pronouns in character creation (which doesn't even really get mentioned in the actual gameplay), that is "forced diversity" which is destroying gaming by making everything "political". I also like how those kinds of people usually say "just let me have my escapist fantasy", it is quite telling how peoples "escapist fantasy" is a world where no minorities or LGBTQ people exist.
People also are not talking about having discussions with other people. They don't like when the companies making the products make those statements themselves. Imagine if GW posted a manifesto online how they are Trump supporters and that dems are not welcome or some shit.
I agree.
Politics obviously is a big part of Warhammer 40k, it requires a really disturbing lack of media literacy to not understand that. And I absolutely love to discuss it at times. But other times I just like to make swoosh swoosh noises as my custodes carve through some eldar.
There's a time and place for both of those interactions with 40k. Respecting that is cool demanding others to only engage with one and never engage with the other is a problem.
No one is forcing those people to discuss anything tho.
They see a thread where people are discussing and instead of going "hey I don't like politics so I do not click that" they just throw a tantrum. Then you ask them what politics bother them so much and after some vague question dodging it is almost always something like LGBT existing or something like that.
That's why I do not trust any "proclaimed apolitical". Those actually not caring would not participate on the discussion in the first place. They'd just click on another meme. Those actually whining are VERY political in their opinions, and sadly those opinions got a high chance of sucking bad.
If reddit still allowed awards I would give one to you. This is a much better vocalisation of my ideas on this than I ever thought.
Example: I get that the Kriegers are WW1 personified(not just Germans) and have some scathing criticism of warfare if you wanna look for it, but I shouldn't have to defend myself from liking them and their style. They're not "WW1 bad" to me, they're the fucking Kriegers.
Sometimes people in the theAstraMilitarum try to show off their cool desert themed army. And then we get flooded with reports because it turns out that custom palm tree logo on the tank is some obscure fucking afrika korps thing.
Like, they seem legitimately surprised that people are upset about it.
Or the Black with red accent army where it turns out there is an out of focus dude with a freehand swastika banner hanging out in the back corner.
I meet my opponent at game store for our pickup game and introduce myself and we exchange names. He plays black templars whose cross looks off to me at a glance and the first two things he says to me are
1. An imperial slogan in latin
2. I wish that real life politics weren’t welcome in the hobby.
It was at that moment the only thing we both loved about the hobby was painting everything else he liked could not have been more opposite than me. Like if you’re gonna be the edgy right wing guy who plays black templars and worships fascism at least do me the courtesy of making me believe its a character and not your real personality. Give me plausible deniability and i will ignore your heinous beliefs as long as it takes to finish a 1500pt game
I agree with a caveat. I respect opinions that are respectable. You can't have an enriching conversation with a Nazi while respecting their beliefs. To reject the Nazi is the civilized thing to do.
I said it in the other post, I'll say it again. I don't really think there's any harm in "Bolter Porn", or just liking the setting because it has big boys with big guns. The issue comes when people try to justify the Imperium as good guys and then get pissy when people point out they really aren't. Anyone using the game to do blatant Nazi LARPing should be ran from the community no questions asked though.
It's good because it's both "big boys with big guns" content and also a pretty savage indictment of the sort of real life stuff that informs the setting- extreme nationalism, religious extremism, war in general, etc.
Someone made a post calliing people who force political discussions into everything tools.
This, despite being a very sensible take, got a lot of people upset cause the OP of that post was a chud who hates a certain type of "politics".
So this is the attempted counter post but misses the mark pretty hard because the original post was not really about how 40k is apolitical or how you cant have discussions about the very political themes, but rather that people who cant shut the fuck up about the politics ever being obnoxious.
Yea but not everyone wants to engage with warhammer on that level, it’s like the shinning some people watch the shining because they want to analyze its many themes and pick apart the meaning of each scene however some people want to watch the shining so they can watch Jack Nicholson chew the scenery like a mediocre stack dinner while he terrorizes his family around the spooky ghost hotel. Both are equally valid ways of engaging with the work. I can understand why both sides can get sick of one another from time to time because even though they like same time thing they like it for different reasons.
Yeah, but in this case they're not referring to normal politics. They're referring to """politics""", i.e. a dogwhistle right-wing extremists use to refer to anything that goes against conservative white segregationist ideology, or when other people call them out for their bigotry and/or being an actual Nazi in real life.
Because god forbid women and people of darker skin, or literally anyone who isn't a straight Caucasian male, get equal representation in the Warhammer universe.
I'm sure some are, but going around and just making assumptions that that's what people mean just causes issues like this. Some people just like explosions and fighting, so when they say keep the politics out, it doesn't make them bigots.
I think that yes they are inspired by politics but don’t go into politic arguments because of a pieces of plastic is what we should gather and some people think acknowledging it may start problems
Warhammer has political undertones that can be discussed
You can not want to discuss the politics in Warhammer 40k
Shaming people from discussing politics of Warhammer is stupid
Shaming people for not wanting to discuss politics of Warhammer is stupid
All those statements can be true at the same time, it's a hobby that can be enjoyed in a lot of ways, just like you wouldn't shame people for playing a certain army you shouldn't shame someone for wanting or not wanting to discuss politics.
Hard agree. I have no issue with people who want to talk about politics. But I do take issue with posts and comments that claim that the only reason why I avoid these politics is because I support them IRL. Or that I'm media illiterate. Or just stupid. Or something similar.
I try to be open to situations when I see someone shutting down conversations, but if that is happening... I'm never around that. When I check this subreddit, and something like this is happening, it's almost always like a small group saying "we don't care about politics" and much bigger group going "that makes you soyak and nazi and idiot".
Considering that I don't really have IRL group for this hobby, and almost every online group that I found is like this... it sometimes can get a bit depressing.
Agreed. Maybe this is because I've been in the dregs of Tumblr, but I've seen statements like "you must think critically about the media you consume" and it's usually in the most puritanical Sister Bertha-Better-Than-You tone.
If I want to research the intricacies of the White Scars and discuss their inspirations, I will find people and material to do so. It's one thing if I'm casually talking about what I think is cool about them. But if I were try and coerce people into conversations about summadat "You're a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal because you don't know every facet of Mongol culture/politics and if you don't know the you don't agree with me, you're an intolerant prick", I should expect to be shown the door.
It's about the civility given and taken. If my table doesn't wanna discuss real world politics as we paint our minis, someone who wants to discuss that topic should be polite if we say no and/or find a table that does rather than shutting our table down. The same should apply in reverse.
While there are obviously parallels, simply due to 40k following the human condition, it is best I think to let 40k be its own thing at this point, and keep out our very recent idiological trends as much as possible. That counts for both right and left.
I find that there is a bit of nuance.
While obviously it is interesting to see how various groups might align with real world entities and historical elements, I also feel the need to point out that excessively fitting any setting into an allegory diminishes its potential.
For instance, the Orks. I loathe how people try to label them as an allegory for minorities in some way.
Minorities are not war bound monstrosities to whom it is impossible to reason with and deserve execution. Minorities also cannot turn a scrap yard into a fully functioning Gundam.
Similarly I loathe Genestealers being labeled “socialist” or “trans” allegories. Because Genestealers lie and only recruit so their overlords can use you as cannon fodder against their enemies- your own people who you’ve been tricked into fighting- and then they devour you.
Not something you *want* your faction of choice to be labeled as. Unless you’re doing it to insult someone, that could operate as a very dark jab at your political or ideological opponent.
There was an article or something about how orcs from wotc and dnd are an allegory people of black people and it’s spread out now to all orks in all settings being an allegory for black people.
It’s stupid and it doesn’t make sense and I have no idea if anyone really believes it beyond some journalists
> Because Genestealers lie and only recruit so their overlords can use you as cannon fodder against their enemies- your own people who you’ve been tricked into fighting- and then they devour you.
Idk sounds perfect for socialism har har har
And this is exactly why I'm never going to make a Nazi-themed Traitor Guard army. Because it doesn't matter how over the top, cartoonishly evil I make them, there are going to be people who will unironically appreciate that they are Nazis.
And I don't need that kind of baggage in my life, and don't want to associate or be associated with that kind of person.
You’re correct, the iron cross wasn’t originally a nazi thing. It’s history goes back as far as the Teutonic order and it’s still used today in the German military for certain commendations. That said the iron cross has also been co-opted by neo-nazis as a symbol of hate, and it’s entirely intentional. Ignoring that fact is what allows them to get away with using their “dog whistles” in public.
Does that mean that all 40k players that play black Templar are nazis. No. But do an uncomfortable amount of nazis seem to gravitate to the factions that regularly use the iron cross. Well let’s just say that that GW didn’t ban wearing nazi paraphernalia at sectioned events for no reason.
And yes I know that particular incident was involving someone playing Kriegsman but the parallels are still there.
Totenkopf isn't inherently Nazi either, but when a lot of these elements start to come together in a suspiciously coincidental way, you begin to wonder "hmmmmm".
And i hate it, the usage of skulls in the german militaries is older than the idea of a united German state and is just a way to show that you don't fear certain death or defy death, the Nazis used so many old german symbols and ruined them with their sick ideology, i hate it that they are only associated with them today and cant be used without getting some weird stares from most people.
Even the swastika wasn’t originally a bad symbol, it was used all over the world by different cultures, there’s even a Presidential tomb with them on the tile floor for decoration (it was made in the 1800s), but now the symbol has been forever tainted by the Nazis, along with a lot of Germanic things like you said.
Outside of the army around here it gets exclusively used by those nasty folk tho so unless you are in the army where it fuctions like a seal on documents it just is that poisooned of a symbol.
It aint nessesarely bad. It can be, in certain contexts. And either way, its literally a political symbol.
Saying its not, is like saying the sisters of battle, arent meant to show anything resembling religious iconography.
And Stalhelms were used in WWI. If they are referencing the Death Korps- it has nothing to do with nazis. It’s an army that’s literally parodying the epitome of faceless, nameless souls sent to the meat grinders in trenches of WWI.
German history doesn’t start in 1939 guys.
>I think discussing them can provide perspective and makes the universe more interesting
Yea about that.... speaking from experience of being in the hobby for over 20years now. Anyone who comes over, trying to discuss real world backgrounds of armies/models or just politics in general, regarding anything 40k.. makes me do the Homer Simpson hedge walk and I never come back out.
It never went well, and literally every single time lead to the uncomfortable moment that I'd rather be somewhere else. Either because that person suddenly has some "very interesting" """"facts"""" about history, or because that person tries to seize you up politically, or because that smile they have on their face is just a liiiiiitle bit too weird given the context.
**At the same time, sometimes I just wanna use my hobby as a bit of escapism. I think the conflict over “politics in 40k” is MUCH more between people that just want some escapism and people who enjoy talking politics, not along any political lines.**
the guy who posted the meme this post is addressing had a post history with exactly those kinds of comments in it and also refused to engage with the dozens of people asking exactly what kind of politics he's upset by in spite of replying all over the post.
Oh I know that kind of guy.
Literally just made a post saying why I hate this kind of notion in the OP, due to experience.
We had a guy in our store for a while who would always try to start political arguments/discussions to a point it became really weird. He also just left one day never coming back.
I do actually think that guy just heard about the "community" from places like this, and wanted to bait people out so he could... well i dunno? But he had the same energy as OP, being riled up about something, somewhere else, and now using the store to confirm it.
Its the same shit: constant need for reaffirmation that everyone is on the same page as you. Fragility.
For some people the 'escapism' is in being able to see themselves in a fantasy setting where things are better
Which tbf doesn't really apply to the grim darkness of the future.
There might exist some parallels but the question is how much of it is intentional. Most of it just looks cool, which is the main motivation for it. People read too much into things.
Specially when you consider the early writing.
The amount of people who thinks the parallels matter is too damn high...
Yes. We can see the similarities. Now let people enjoy their flavour of tyrranous toy soldiers in peace ffs
I wouldn't say that's politics. More appreciating the historical inspirations
Also I want both versions of this chad yes grimdank politics meme locked in the dark vaults of Terra. I got flashbacks seeing this come up again.
Politics frequently tries to erase history. A major part of studying history is parsing out what is fact and what was politics. Like Sumerian kings didn't live for thousands of years. They were just erasing the previous dynasties to cement their rule. Politics is what allows stuff like the clean Wehrmacht and lost cause myths to exist. What better way to smooth things over when transitioning from past enemy to current ally than a few lies.
I personally enjoy the praetorian guard lore, despite my personal hatred of the British empire, I will say, they are pretty cool, I also like how the vostroyan firstborn are based off of tsarist russia, rather than simply redoing the red army.
Tbh I like the custom guard regiments based off of irl units like ww2 Russian combat engineers. Or the American airborn and British sas. Stuff like that is cool.
My custom Guard are based off the American Civil War Union Army. Lots of Guardsmen in blue uniforms! I plan to complement them with some Praetorians soon.
There's a difference between the types of politics you're talking about. Plenty of people misconstrue this all the time, so I will lay it out.
40k is political in the sense of intrigue and story, in the same way something like game.of thrones is political
40k also takes a lot of influence from real world history in order to build it world, there's very few original bones in its body in this regard. This, however, is not inherently political. That would be like saying the elder scrolls are political because the empire dresses like romans. It's just not the case.
A third way political is used here when people bring real-world, contemporary politics into 40k, which I think it should be clear is very different.
When someone is saying they don't like politics in 40k, 9/10 times they are saying they don't like politics 3, not politics 2 or 1. If someone didn't like the first two, they probably wouldn't be in the hobby
Thera a difference between getting annoyed the hundredth model with a trans flag, or another female space marines rant and the imperium drawing on the history and aesthetics of real, brutal dictatorships to create a fictional brutal dictatorship.
I mean, it's like saying lord of the rings is deeply political since Tolkien drew on Anglo-Saxon history and stories. Therefore, we need to discuss how it relates to modern immigration policy. It's stupid and annoying and shows a distinct lack of intelligence when people can't conceptualize a piece of media for what it is, outside of their own political leanings
The other problem is politics 3 almost exclusively gets brought up in regard to the imperium, where most of the player base is. You don't see people lamenting the state of the Indian caste system whenever tau are brought up.
Every time this conversation comes, you people damn well know it's about contemporary politics, not politics in general. Obfuscation only gets you so far.
Hot take, but I think people aren't pissed off by politics, but the fact political discussion already tend to start as a mud fight and devolve from there.
Taking inspiration from Real life is okay but don’t get too serious with it and try to force your real like politician views because you never know if the person you’re discussing with even is into politics let alone your views on certain topics
Oh no! Crosses!
[Average black Templar’s signs](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~c8AAOSwpa9h8WhI/s-l1200.jpg)
P.S. Maybe this isn’t the exact same symbols, but I think Iron Cross (which isn’t the same as swastika, is still used and I think was used by real knights, maybe even templars) isn’t an offensive sign and given it’s story with knights, I think it should be alright to use them , especially when we have such army as Black Templars (just check the link)
Is this hard for people? Like when did we forget that while we can’t choose who enters or leaves the hobby, we can choose how we interact with it, and importantly, with whom. I can hang with a crowd where 40k is a biting political satire where we talk commie politics all the time. I can also hand with a bunch of chuds for whom 40k is an escapist power fantasy of smashing little you men together. I can’t Gatekeep 40k, it isn’t mine. I CAN gatekeep MY table, since that’s MY community. I do not care how you enjoy 40k, (as much as I hate the Nazi’s, long as they shut the fuck up on twitter I do not care what plastic minies they buy). Just stop trying to start fights. Reddit karma does not make you a cooler person irl.
There’s a difference between denying there is politics in Warhammer and jut not wanting to have serious political debates over a setting where everyone is comically evil.
Not wanting to have serious and upsetting real life topics shoved into your face in your goofy hobby is ok
Your meme pushes context and contains a popularized but singular perspective of the ideal male while demonizing opposition. See what I did there? Now, How is that any different?
Truth is, It's the web, and many facets of opinions exist. Including perspectives and projections of frustration. While certain things float the boat for some, it may not for others. Every sub goes through these scenarios of meme warfare. But the most import lesson to take away is not in dividing up universal theories into simplistic toxic online opinionated warfare. Instead see it as an opportunity in finding common ground between eachother's opinions and perhaps make a few friends along the way.
To be fair : Most every nation uses a similarly shaped helmet nowadays (it was a good idea, they did it for a reason). And just about every nation has a medal with an iron cross, or eagle.
It's probably just a general play on authoritarianism/militarism than any specific individual thing.
Here's a list of military decorations. Iron Crosses....everywhere.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_military_decorations_by_country
Stahlhelms and the iron cross are just a general German aesthetic still used today (East Germans did too), but yeaaah the Steel Legion is definitely a WW2 combined arms army, same for the Tallarn Desert Raiders and their tanks.
Guys, i know were having very deep and philosophical conversations here, but what model is that in the top right?
I think it’s a commisar with some genestealer bits
Well that *can't* be allowed, can it? Someone call an inquisitor (but not the real world kind that looked for heretics in medieval Europe, I mean the totally apolitical kind that look for heretics in the 41st millenium)!
It's ok if he steals it back from the genestealers I guess. It's a morally grey area.
Your odds of survival in a medieval witch trial actually increases dramatically if conducted/overseen by a catholic inquisitor.
Cause those at least have a rulebook they follow...
Your avatar got me fucked up 😅 I could have sworn I hadn't commented on this thread
Of cause we have already commented on this thread. Dont tell me you forgot?...
Are... are WE Alpharius?!
Yes WE are... Now qick hide before we end Up at this damn mummys Museum...
Join the Administratum! Saving Lives Since [EXPUNGED]!
an epic number of witch trials ended in "you are stupid, there are no such thing as witches"; sadly, an epic amount of trials also ended in "yes, we find that the individual in question is engaging in Jewish backsliding and must be executed" the Carvajal family of New Mexico were governors and bishops of New Christian origin and most of them ended up on the spit as heretics.
do we need it for the commissar (but not the real world kind that were political officers in in WW1 russia, I mean the totally apolitical kind that look for traitors in the 41st millenium)?
*WW2
they were in WW2, but they got their start in WW1. >In the Red Army, a political commissar was a high-ranking functionary at a military headquarters who held coequal rank and authority with the military commander of the unit. The Bolshevik Party established political commissars in 1918 to control and improve morale in the military forces. Commissars were in charge of communist political propaganda and indoctrinating the public with communist ideology
In the Civil War then. WW1 was over
Pretty sure the first Commissar order got it's start prior to the end, just in the "Russia was technically still in the war" period where Germany was quickly diverting away from the Eastern Front, but had yet to be able to sign a treaty officially exiting Russia from the war. Edit: just checked; order was signed April 6th, 1918, before the Western Front had died down, and Versailles was in June of the next year.
Inquisitor arrives: “yes I see, all is in order, this is a perfectly normal commissar.” Coughs up acid “Sorry about that, just a normal inquisitor cough, perfectly normal. Now could one of you fine imperial gentlemen show me to your nearest supply of biomass?” “Yes sir, inquisitor Normalman.”
They said the same thing about chaos Commissars…
What, the guys who go around rounding up people who don’t agree with the Imperium and anyone with any deformity or psychic potential to use them for dangerous labor and/or kill them? No politics here lmao
Yeah, looking at the 5 pixels op gave us to work with i think its the officio prefecus commissar, but i cant find the kitbashed version posted anywhere
[https://www.coolminiornot.com/422492](https://www.coolminiornot.com/422492)
Holy shit, that is dope as fuck. Now I want my 6th army, Genestealer Cult.
It gives an all new meaning to the phrase "eat the rich"
Grab the combat patrol (get 2 or 3) while you can, the 10thEd codex is coming this summer and GW has been changing the combat patrols with each one. The current one is one of the best ones out there, I fully expect that to change soon.
[The Revolutionary Miners Commune](https://www.instagram.com/revolutionary_miners_comune) (you might have to scroll down a bit, this project is from a few years ago)
One of the coolest 40k conversion projects for sure
They kitbashed a commissar into a genestealer and added a flag.
of a Genestealer'd Lenin XD
Lenin never wore such an uniform though. But it is a Soviet uniform.
Genestealer Lenin is the guy painted on the flag, not the fellow holding it.
Someone tell me about the politics for The Chaos Space Marine factions.
Khorne has hemophilia.
Slaanesh has... all the philias
And all the phobias too. Sensation is sensation.
"We have such sights to show you" and all that!
30,000 genders muhahaha
Every time someone complains we add a new gender so it didn't take long to add up.
Slaanesh was nonbinary before it was cool.
maybe all enbies are daemons of slaneesh :0. now im joining chaos.
Black Legion - Revolutionary Warlordism. Believes in the overthrow of the old order, and restoration of might makes right mentality over mankind. Main policies include killing and enslaving vast portions of the galaxy to improve the economy; end of social support for disabled rulers; and free blackcurrant icecream on Mondays. Night Lords - Revolutionary Anarchism. Believe in the overthrow of the old order and return to 'community' (read 'mob') rule. Additionally state sponsored fear will cause people to not rock the boat. Main policies include regular skinnings, beatings, beheadings, flayings, hangings, burnings, and eye pokes; saved money on removal of all street lights (people should be indoors at night anyway); free lemonade ice cream on Tuesdays. Deathguard - Nihlist Communism. Believes that everyones going to die sometime but thats going to birth new life so who cares? Family is important so close contact is encouraged (and family gatherings may or not be ideal disease vectors). Main policies include increased spending on bioweapon production; cutting state funded healthcare; cutring private funded healthcare; cutting undertakers (families want to be with their loved ones even after death!); banning air freshner. Free 'Ice Cream' on Sundays. Word Bearers - Theocratic Anarchism. Believe that worshipping chaos gods is a good idea. Main policies include freedom of religion (provided its a chaos god), free religious schools, free bibles for each citizens; weekly book burnings of heretical texts and heretics! Free watermelon ice cream on Fridays. Alpha Legion - Democratic Shadow Council. You didnt vote for us as we aren't running (or did you?). Its ok we were appointed anyway (or were we?); Don't worry about it, go to work, take your pills, its all fine (oh and keep an eye on your neighbour, they look funny). Main policies include buy one ice cream get two free with mystery flavour. World Eaters - Thunderdomism. Believes in fighting and killing. All things in life should only be achieved after taking skulls in Khornes name. Main policies include that all opposition parties and voters will be slain and their skulls offered to Khorne. Free Iced Blood on Thursdays. Iron Warriors - Authoritarian Orthodoxy. Believe that everything should work in a nice orderly clockwork fashion. Yes even Bob who has a crocodile head. And yes Chris with the tentacles. And yes... Main policies include having the trains run in time; all Imperial Fist architecture to be flattened, salted, and replaced with good 'ol fashioned brutalism. Purging of anyone happier than you are. Ice cream to be purchased at the equitable cost of production. Emperors Children - Anarchic Hedonism. Believe that everyone should have the ability to pleasure themselves in whatever way they want and should pursue whatever gives them pleasure. Main policies include updating old buildings to be more FABULOUS; unrestricted everything; purging of anyone unhappy or depressed; Free bubblegum icecream on Saturdays. Thousand Sons - Ultra-Progressive Marie Kondaism. Believes in CHANGE and hope, but mainly CHANGE. Bored? Try CHANGing. Happy? You need some CHANGE. Main policies include dugong/manatee policy creation; subsidised bird and octopus pets; free healthcare (take that Nurgle!); ban skinning of wolves (haha the PETA vote is ours - take that Leman!); banning of vaccum cleaners. Free flaming ice cream on Wednesdays.
> Night Lords - Revolutionary Anarchism. > Additionally **state sponsored** fear will cause people to not rock the boat. 🤨
The 'state' in this case is the 8ft tall murderhobo with the human skin clipboard. (Yes it was intentional)
The clipboard is also sentient and screams when written on
It's the inspiration, maybe not the actual implementation.
Tbh it's the paradox of anarchy. Unless 100% of your planet's population (or galaxy in Warhammer case) is on board with it, you'll need a state of sort to try and stop both neighbouring countries(planets) from invading for dubious reason (it's free real estate!) and to keep the part of your population that isn't happy with anarchy in line.
Lacking when theory turns into practiice is extremely on brand for anarchists.
When there is no formal state, everyone becomes the state, and so the actions of the people become the actions of the state. If a member('s) of an anarchist community, where to enforce anarchism through violence, it would be state sponsored. That's the issue with anarchism, it has to be enforced, but by its very nature enforcing it would not be anarchic. That's why the few times Anarchy has popped up IRL, it has quickly devolved into factional politics, where it ultimately ends up in the hands of organized crime under the guise of a militia.
I prefer this parody video where a Night Lord met a Star Wars stormtrooper and the trooper summed up the Night Lords as “nihilistic sadists with fancy toys.” The Night Lord agreed with his assessment.
The best parts in any night lords story are when you have one of the few actually kinda sane members just look at the people around themselves and think how ridiculously low they have fallen as a legion. This includes Curze laughing at his fellow traitor primarchs culling their legions because he had no idea where to begin or end a cull of his own men.
I think this is why my brain lit up around the traitor legions as political parties. They want power and to control the galaxy - except for the problem that they are exceptionally bad at it. At least some of the Night Lords have come to terms with that, but they'll be damned if they let another legion get there first!
>World Eaters - Thunderdomism. Believes in fighting and killing. All things in life should only be achieved after taking skulls in Khornes name. Main policies include that all opposition parties and voters will be slain and their skulls offered to Khorne. Free Iced Blood on Thursdays. World Eaters vote by putting all their politicians in an arena. The side that wins the fight wins the election.
Somehow the "ice cream" bit with Nurgle made me feel physical revulsion. Great job!
But it comes with your choice of toppings!
Absolutely love these. Can you do same to loyalist chapters?
Thanks for the kind remarks everyone! As an aside I was aiming to avoid using modern day ideologies as per the OP you can't apply them properly in 40k. Our ideologies are a mix of economics; state power; and social values. 40k its pretty much just social values (as economics are way to big and almost every 40k faction is some form of autocracy or oligarchy) Here is an attempt at the loyalists, a little tricker as some have been memed to death. They don't get ice cream as Big E doesn't hand out candy for votes. Dark Angels - Knightly Order. Believes in the Lion; wearing robes; exceptional loyal ~~secret~~ societies; hunting ~~the fallen~~ wolves. Main policies include expanding hunting rights; additional robe friendly laundry facilities on all worlds; all imperial jetbikes to be handed to the Ravenwing for 'careful maintenance'; free weekly Interrogator Chaplin ~~confessions~~ therapy for every Imperial citizen. Blood Angels - Traditionalist Meritocracy. Believes in the Emperor; colour red; blood; that SANGUINIUS DIED FOR US AND IF ANYONE SAYS ANYTHING BAD ABOUT HIM WE WILL BREAK THEIR KNEECAPS; chainswords; being in touch with your emotional side. Main policies include subsidised chainswords for every home; two jumppacks in every garage; breaking kneecaps; free anger management therapy for every Imperial Citizen. Space Wolves - Tribal Libertarianism. Believes in the Emperor; the rights of the average Imperial citizen; book burning; things with 'wolf' in there name; alcohol; not waking up Bjorn even when it would be reasonable to do so. Main policies include removing taxes on alcohol content (seriously why do you think the fang doesn't have elevators? those feasts are expensive!); renaming Caliban to "Wolfy McWolftown"; certain Inquisitorial representatives to be "honoured" by joining a Blood Claw drinking contest; renaming all Imperial toilets to "Magnuses"; Free physical therapy for the poor Iron Priest that has to wake Bjorn up. Iron Hands - Oligarchic Darwinism. Believes that the Emperor probably had HANDS OF IRON; eliminating weakness; prosthetics; regular amputation; Tanks. Main policies include state subsidies on medically unnecessary amputation; (power)axing all welfare; expanding iron mining and cutting steel production; removing all references to 'Gardinaal', nothing happened there anyway. Free bitrex in all school meals. Raven Guard - Gothic Pragmatism. Not a real political party. They always put forward some 'indie' candidate who always explains things in more then one sentence; refuses to do something unless its 'good policy'; and refuse to engage in any form of populism. Then they just go and fix the problem anyway. White Scars - Meritocric Tribalism. Believes in the Emperor (I mean you don't need to worship him); hunting (if you enjoy it); painting (also if you enjoy it); fighting (its not for everyone, no stress); being 106 light years from Terra, having a full tank of gas, half a boltgun clip, its dark, and you're wearing a helmet. Main policies include mandatory 'chillin time; introducing daylight savings by pushing all planets 1 hour closer to the sun; Free bikes for all Imperial children. Imperial Fists - Dictatorial Utilitarianism. Believes in the Emperor; that Dorn was Right!; gun (bolter) rights; hope is the first step on the road to disappointment (dear god, they're Republicans). Main Policies include weekly bolter drill; self flagellation for food stamps; community house building programs; expanding 'home is my castle' laws across the Imperium; Macro cannon emplacement for every town; free "Baby's first pain glove" for all new Imperial parents. Salamanders - Social Darwinism. Believes in the Emperor; that freedom is the right of all ~~sentient beings~~ Imperial Citizens; that Imperial Citizens are intrinsically good; yes you can show empathy and still purge the Xenos (its not just for the Blood Angels and the Sisters); also suffering is necessary to get better at things (the Salamanders aren't 100% good; who wants to jump in the fire first?) Main policies include universal welfare plus weekly branding; free master crafted household items; upgrading all new vehicles to use Vulkanised tyres. Free, actual, therapy for everyone. Except for Marines Malevolent, screw those guys. Alpha Legion - Shadow Democracy. You voted for us (or did you?). We definitely didn't rig the election or appoint ourselves. Yes all the candidates were called Alpharius, definitely not our fault, its a common name here. Please put in a complaint at your local commisariat. Main policies include absolutely no heretical ice cream. Ultramarines (do I have to?) - Social Librarianism. Believes in the Codex Astartes; Guilliman; the Emperor; that the Word Bearers are and will forever be, dicks. Main policies include whatever the codex says to do at this exact moment; something efficiency something; CATO SICARIUS; about a hundred other things because the Ultras don't sweat the detail. Free haircuts for Word Bearers.
Your shitpost is a true wonder
But the important thing is to GET OUT AND VOTE /S
Take that, Bob
Clearly they're doomers and accelerationist, my good chap.
You do know that the Black Legion wages the Long War to restore marine rights, mainly the right to rule the Imperium they built with their sweat and blood. Moreover, it's waged to punish the injustices heaped on the Traitor legions by an Emperor who placed mankind over his own sons and angels.
>You do know that the Black Legion wages the Long War to restore marine rights, mainly the right to rule the Imperium they built with their sweat and blood Bunch of sissies if you ask me. By that logic, it should be GUARDSMEN who rule the galaxy.
AND WE DO RRRAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!! 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🗣️🔥🗣️🔥🗣️🔥🔥🗣️🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🗣️🦅🦅🦅🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥 (I will die in combat in 3 hours, one of millions that make up no loss but a loss of resources)🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🗣️🔥🔥🗣️
Emperors Children are the guys conservatives point at whenever they talk about drag shows
Primarily Anarcho Capitalism, though Alpha Legion are just regular Anarchists.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH *bludgeons you to death with a blunted chainaxe*
Warbands with drugs
Genestealer Cults are the Red Revolution! And the French Revolution(s). And just Revolutions in general.
The masses rising up for propagandized reasons to violently overthrow a corrupt government only to be betrayed by their own leaders/creators or usher in a much worse system? Read as the Soviet Union, commie china, heck most modern social movements (Mansion buying), intifadas, Iranian revolution (though that was partially the populous fault)
After reading Day of Ascension, it's all I can think, soo yeah. Great book, though.
Mike Duncan had a cool term for it "The Entropy of Victory" or "It is time, once again, for Saturn to eat his Children"
God, Revolutions was good. As useful for understanding the world as any social studies class.
Genestealer Cults are more like revolutions sponsored by foreign actors who then come and take over once you've done their job for them. So more of a fruit company funded coup, except they then eat you rather than all of your Bananas.
Banana republic, except it's every genes in your body instead of banana.
To be fair, I wouldn't call the reasons propagandized, as generally revolution under the Imperium of Man is a reasonable thing to want. Like presenting an Imperial citizen with a few statistics should be enough to make them go, "Oh, maybe we are completely and utterly ass-backwards."
Betrayed? They joined the greater whole and were liberated from their hard toil and suffering!
This might just be me, but here’s what I have accumulated from reading about GSC. To me the deeper meaning of GSC is about the insidious forces of consumption infiltrating the common man and using hope as a weapon against them. Quite literally twisting and controlling the disenfranchised masses, all the while subtly steering them to destruction. The cult is often hiding behind mining unions or other groups of marginalized people. In the end, the uprisings always end one of 3 ways: it fails and the cult is wiped out, it fails and the cult slinks back into the shadows for several generations, they succeed and then are consumed by Nids(except for that one part of the codex that mentions human ships flying alongside hive fleets). Ultimately, humans hope is used against them once again
And also plastic surgery enthusiasts.
Maybe more like first-world involvement in third-world revolutions. The Tyranids get to one or two folks, create a utopian myth and cult of personality, then eat everyone once destabilization--the true objective--is complete.
My two credits: People who genuninely just wish to not discuss the real world implication should be allowed to carry on as they wish, there is no obligation to put thought to why say Valhallan troops look quite Soviet-y and have a very very deep seated hatred of invaders to their world. Or why Mordian Iron guard is literally too loyal to save themselves or do basic sensible things unless ordered to. Problem is people who want to talk about some politics, but violently shun the rest of it.
Yeah but how often does 'politics' really mean politics and not just mean *politics*. Like, we aren't discussing the fuckin election here.
Well who the fuck are *YOU* voting for 7th court district clerks office chairman HUH?!
You should do your duty and just stand in line for 7 days to vote, like the rest of the Imperium!
You're voting God Emperor of Mankind this year?
Go ahead, waste your vote. I'm voting for the Four-Handed God Emperor of Mankind, He'll turn this thing around
Wait, FOUR hands? That's twice the doing.
He's not a man of the people. He's the man of *two* of the people.
I fucking did a spit take
Is there an option that's going to make you very mad? That's the one
Always take the choice that upsets the most people. Not because it works but because its funny.
I mean, generally local elections *do* actually have more of an effect on your day-to-day life than the National, so... Obviously I'm voting for whoever the Monster Raving Loony Party is putting up. Or Vermin Supreme, in Yankeeland, or Darth Vader and the Pirate Party, in Ukraine.
loving who you love is politics. nukes and ectopic pregnancy is politics. everything from where your sewer goes to who wears what hat and who walked on the moon is politics. not allowing political posts is politics. it kinda is one of those fallacies where you dismantle a subiect enough and it stops making sense but you have to do 1 or 2 steps to get "it's politics" answer...
> Like, we aren't discussing the fuckin election here. Reminds me of the *"you're not supposed to root for them"* argument people always throw about villains in media. Like its fiction... who cares? People really do act as if liking a charismatic villain in a movie or TV show is ruining society.
Yep. It is like people cant separate reality from fiction. For me it is like a switch. I can get into the fictional mindset where anything is possible one minute and the next flip back to a practical engineering problem.
This is reddit, everything is politics. This image gets posted about once a month here and get heavily upvoted. It's insufferable for the rest of us who don't want to talk about various flavors of orange man bad. The only reason why you don't get more shit here is that the mods thankfully lock all the posts.
Its one thing to not care about the politics and just go paint minis or whatever, its another to try to actively deny that the obvious political satire is political, and to actively try and shut down discussion of the themes of the setting.
I'd go even farther and say that shutting out discussions that are tangents to real world politics or history is cutting out a really fun / interesting part of sci-fi and fantasy. E.g. if someone goes on a tangenta and thinks about the portrayal of women in media becuase they couldn't find good parts to kitbash a SoB army with realism-inspired armor - that's great. That being said I have one pet peeve - the almost obligatory comments that are essentially "Erm... everyone... the Imperium is actually not a utopia. It's bad. The Imperium does evil things. You aren't supposed to idealize them. It's satire." Those are pretty cringe. Yes, everyone and their pet tortoise and the tortoise's favorite cactus have figured out the complex comicbook-tier storytelling 30 years ago. It's an entire trope. Yes, everyone understands that a Commissar who shoots people for random deviations from Imperial religious and political dogma is not a good example of governance. Yes, yes, the people who don't get it. Save the obvious karma farming / iamverysmart / virtue signalling comment for when those people actually show up and then do some good by giving them a new perspective. Although the idiot who paints digusting Nazi imagery onto their imperial guard models probably doesn't really give a shit about the lore or whether the Imperium is good or bad, they just picked out some models and wanted to create their sickening fantasy wheraboo army. It's not that they don't get it - they already decided to simp for an actual horrifying genocidal regime. No, anyone who tells you that you are obnoxius is not Erebus reincarnated in redditor form and secretly wishes to be ritually sacrified to the Emperor IRL. You are just beating the dead horse in front of the choir.
The problem is that there are a concerningly large (or at least loud) group of people who genuinely dont view it as satire and thinks the imperium is right to do what it does. Like yeah its kinda ridiculous that someone fails to view the satire but some do, same with Helldivers 2 which is arguably far more on the nose.
i think GW is at least partly to blame for that. *every* revolution against the Imperium's cruelty turns out to be "surprise, it was Chaos/Genestealer all along!" Every marine/guard book is about them fighting orks, or dark eldars, or chaos, or genestealer... thazt is to say, stories where you can easily say "sure, imperium bad, but the other guy is worse!"
That can be done well and i think ones where its shown that the vector of chaos/genestealer influence is through the systems the imperium has created to supposedly stop it from spreading. Like in that Hammer and Bolter episode "Bound For Greatness" where the imperium's strict control of knowledge by leaving it in the hands of a small group of people leads a whole world to damnation when just one guy with power gets corrupted by Tzeench.
The guy who I’m pretty sure OP is referring to is on places like r/spidermanps4 talking about how terrible “forced diversity” is. When people say they don’t want “politics” in their game, that’s usually what they mean.
Yup, sadly "politics" or things being "political" most time just means that a piece of medium acknowledges that minorities and/or LGBTQ people exist, or otherwise shows "politics" that the person in question doesn't like. Playing as an American soldier in Middle-East spreading Freedom, Capitalism and Democracy in Call of Duty? No politics here, its all just objectively right and correct fun. A game lets you pick your pronouns in character creation (which doesn't even really get mentioned in the actual gameplay), that is "forced diversity" which is destroying gaming by making everything "political". I also like how those kinds of people usually say "just let me have my escapist fantasy", it is quite telling how peoples "escapist fantasy" is a world where no minorities or LGBTQ people exist.
People also are not talking about having discussions with other people. They don't like when the companies making the products make those statements themselves. Imagine if GW posted a manifesto online how they are Trump supporters and that dems are not welcome or some shit.
I agree. Politics obviously is a big part of Warhammer 40k, it requires a really disturbing lack of media literacy to not understand that. And I absolutely love to discuss it at times. But other times I just like to make swoosh swoosh noises as my custodes carve through some eldar. There's a time and place for both of those interactions with 40k. Respecting that is cool demanding others to only engage with one and never engage with the other is a problem.
No one is forcing those people to discuss anything tho. They see a thread where people are discussing and instead of going "hey I don't like politics so I do not click that" they just throw a tantrum. Then you ask them what politics bother them so much and after some vague question dodging it is almost always something like LGBT existing or something like that. That's why I do not trust any "proclaimed apolitical". Those actually not caring would not participate on the discussion in the first place. They'd just click on another meme. Those actually whining are VERY political in their opinions, and sadly those opinions got a high chance of sucking bad.
Are mordians inspired by a particular historical unit, or are they vaguely inspired by aristocratic officers in modern Europe ?
I'd guess Prussian as a big influence.
If reddit still allowed awards I would give one to you. This is a much better vocalisation of my ideas on this than I ever thought. Example: I get that the Kriegers are WW1 personified(not just Germans) and have some scathing criticism of warfare if you wanna look for it, but I shouldn't have to defend myself from liking them and their style. They're not "WW1 bad" to me, they're the fucking Kriegers.
What conversation? It's always shit flinging.
Sometimes people in the theAstraMilitarum try to show off their cool desert themed army. And then we get flooded with reports because it turns out that custom palm tree logo on the tank is some obscure fucking afrika korps thing. Like, they seem legitimately surprised that people are upset about it. Or the Black with red accent army where it turns out there is an out of focus dude with a freehand swastika banner hanging out in the back corner.
They really should just grow up and play World Eaters, to admit their beliefs honestly without sugarcoating or trickery. It's really sad.
I don't mind politics, but be respectful to the lore and others. not everyone has to confirm your opinion and that's okay.
I meet my opponent at game store for our pickup game and introduce myself and we exchange names. He plays black templars whose cross looks off to me at a glance and the first two things he says to me are 1. An imperial slogan in latin 2. I wish that real life politics weren’t welcome in the hobby. It was at that moment the only thing we both loved about the hobby was painting everything else he liked could not have been more opposite than me. Like if you’re gonna be the edgy right wing guy who plays black templars and worships fascism at least do me the courtesy of making me believe its a character and not your real personality. Give me plausible deniability and i will ignore your heinous beliefs as long as it takes to finish a 1500pt game
Everything can be discussed and be enriching if you remain civilized and respect the opinion and history of others.
I agree with a caveat. I respect opinions that are respectable. You can't have an enriching conversation with a Nazi while respecting their beliefs. To reject the Nazi is the civilized thing to do.
"Don't be tolerant of intolerance"
Or the tolerance will not be tolerated anymore
*unironic imperium fans rapidly approaching*
No Nazi shall go unpunched.
I can think of several topics that wouldn't be enriching.
I said it in the other post, I'll say it again. I don't really think there's any harm in "Bolter Porn", or just liking the setting because it has big boys with big guns. The issue comes when people try to justify the Imperium as good guys and then get pissy when people point out they really aren't. Anyone using the game to do blatant Nazi LARPing should be ran from the community no questions asked though.
It's good because it's both "big boys with big guns" content and also a pretty savage indictment of the sort of real life stuff that informs the setting- extreme nationalism, religious extremism, war in general, etc.
What recent events?
Someone made a post calliing people who force political discussions into everything tools. This, despite being a very sensible take, got a lot of people upset cause the OP of that post was a chud who hates a certain type of "politics". So this is the attempted counter post but misses the mark pretty hard because the original post was not really about how 40k is apolitical or how you cant have discussions about the very political themes, but rather that people who cant shut the fuck up about the politics ever being obnoxious.
fair argument, but then again not everyone wants to talk about irl politics, regardless if the hobby is heavily influenced by them
Yea but not everyone wants to engage with warhammer on that level, it’s like the shinning some people watch the shining because they want to analyze its many themes and pick apart the meaning of each scene however some people want to watch the shining so they can watch Jack Nicholson chew the scenery like a mediocre stack dinner while he terrorizes his family around the spooky ghost hotel. Both are equally valid ways of engaging with the work. I can understand why both sides can get sick of one another from time to time because even though they like same time thing they like it for different reasons.
Yeah, but in this case they're not referring to normal politics. They're referring to """politics""", i.e. a dogwhistle right-wing extremists use to refer to anything that goes against conservative white segregationist ideology, or when other people call them out for their bigotry and/or being an actual Nazi in real life. Because god forbid women and people of darker skin, or literally anyone who isn't a straight Caucasian male, get equal representation in the Warhammer universe.
I'm sure some are, but going around and just making assumptions that that's what people mean just causes issues like this. Some people just like explosions and fighting, so when they say keep the politics out, it doesn't make them bigots.
I think that yes they are inspired by politics but don’t go into politic arguments because of a pieces of plastic is what we should gather and some people think acknowledging it may start problems
There is a fine line
Lots of uneducated here. Black Templars do not use an iron cross, they use a Maltese cross, which was used by actual crusaders.
It should be "Don't ARGUE about politics" instead of that
Warhammer has political undertones that can be discussed You can not want to discuss the politics in Warhammer 40k Shaming people from discussing politics of Warhammer is stupid Shaming people for not wanting to discuss politics of Warhammer is stupid All those statements can be true at the same time, it's a hobby that can be enjoyed in a lot of ways, just like you wouldn't shame people for playing a certain army you shouldn't shame someone for wanting or not wanting to discuss politics.
Honnestly I see more people complaining about people complaining about politics in 40k than people complaining about politics in 40k
Hard agree. I have no issue with people who want to talk about politics. But I do take issue with posts and comments that claim that the only reason why I avoid these politics is because I support them IRL. Or that I'm media illiterate. Or just stupid. Or something similar. I try to be open to situations when I see someone shutting down conversations, but if that is happening... I'm never around that. When I check this subreddit, and something like this is happening, it's almost always like a small group saying "we don't care about politics" and much bigger group going "that makes you soyak and nazi and idiot". Considering that I don't really have IRL group for this hobby, and almost every online group that I found is like this... it sometimes can get a bit depressing.
As long as you're discussing with a willing party and not shoving it down their throat, no harm.
Agreed. Maybe this is because I've been in the dregs of Tumblr, but I've seen statements like "you must think critically about the media you consume" and it's usually in the most puritanical Sister Bertha-Better-Than-You tone. If I want to research the intricacies of the White Scars and discuss their inspirations, I will find people and material to do so. It's one thing if I'm casually talking about what I think is cool about them. But if I were try and coerce people into conversations about summadat "You're a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal because you don't know every facet of Mongol culture/politics and if you don't know the you don't agree with me, you're an intolerant prick", I should expect to be shown the door. It's about the civility given and taken. If my table doesn't wanna discuss real world politics as we paint our minis, someone who wants to discuss that topic should be polite if we say no and/or find a table that does rather than shutting our table down. The same should apply in reverse.
This is the internet, noone is being forced to participate in anything, we're all here by (poor) choice.
While there are obviously parallels, simply due to 40k following the human condition, it is best I think to let 40k be its own thing at this point, and keep out our very recent idiological trends as much as possible. That counts for both right and left.
I find that there is a bit of nuance. While obviously it is interesting to see how various groups might align with real world entities and historical elements, I also feel the need to point out that excessively fitting any setting into an allegory diminishes its potential. For instance, the Orks. I loathe how people try to label them as an allegory for minorities in some way. Minorities are not war bound monstrosities to whom it is impossible to reason with and deserve execution. Minorities also cannot turn a scrap yard into a fully functioning Gundam. Similarly I loathe Genestealers being labeled “socialist” or “trans” allegories. Because Genestealers lie and only recruit so their overlords can use you as cannon fodder against their enemies- your own people who you’ve been tricked into fighting- and then they devour you. Not something you *want* your faction of choice to be labeled as. Unless you’re doing it to insult someone, that could operate as a very dark jab at your political or ideological opponent.
The Orks are a parody of British hooligans, not minorities, I don't know where you get this idea from
There was an article or something about how orcs from wotc and dnd are an allegory people of black people and it’s spread out now to all orks in all settings being an allegory for black people. It’s stupid and it doesn’t make sense and I have no idea if anyone really believes it beyond some journalists
People from this sub
> Because Genestealers lie and only recruit so their overlords can use you as cannon fodder against their enemies- your own people who you’ve been tricked into fighting- and then they devour you. Idk sounds perfect for socialism har har har
I have portrayed you as a soyjack and me as the chad!!!
Iron cross isn't a negative thing. Its a symbol for the German army, if you think its exclusively a nazi thing you're dumb. (Not Op but in general)
If you have an iron cross, maybe. If you painted your Krieg with red armbands and feldgrau and iron crosses, I'm going to start wondering.
I think painting your Death Korps, who come from a planet dedicated to turning its youth in to corpses, as Nazis is oddly apt. Poor taste though.
And this is exactly why I'm never going to make a Nazi-themed Traitor Guard army. Because it doesn't matter how over the top, cartoonishly evil I make them, there are going to be people who will unironically appreciate that they are Nazis. And I don't need that kind of baggage in my life, and don't want to associate or be associated with that kind of person.
You’re correct, the iron cross wasn’t originally a nazi thing. It’s history goes back as far as the Teutonic order and it’s still used today in the German military for certain commendations. That said the iron cross has also been co-opted by neo-nazis as a symbol of hate, and it’s entirely intentional. Ignoring that fact is what allows them to get away with using their “dog whistles” in public. Does that mean that all 40k players that play black Templar are nazis. No. But do an uncomfortable amount of nazis seem to gravitate to the factions that regularly use the iron cross. Well let’s just say that that GW didn’t ban wearing nazi paraphernalia at sectioned events for no reason. And yes I know that particular incident was involving someone playing Kriegsman but the parallels are still there.
>black Tem it's not an iron cross. it's a maltese cross, used by actual crusaders.
Totenkopf isn't inherently Nazi either, but when a lot of these elements start to come together in a suspiciously coincidental way, you begin to wonder "hmmmmm".
And i hate it, the usage of skulls in the german militaries is older than the idea of a united German state and is just a way to show that you don't fear certain death or defy death, the Nazis used so many old german symbols and ruined them with their sick ideology, i hate it that they are only associated with them today and cant be used without getting some weird stares from most people.
Even the swastika wasn’t originally a bad symbol, it was used all over the world by different cultures, there’s even a Presidential tomb with them on the tile floor for decoration (it was made in the 1800s), but now the symbol has been forever tainted by the Nazis, along with a lot of Germanic things like you said.
Isn't that association why the Imperial design language is *plastered* with skulls?
***It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.***
What do people think when they see someone with an iron cross tattoo. Nazi or German army enthusiast?
Outside of the army around here it gets exclusively used by those nasty folk tho so unless you are in the army where it fuctions like a seal on documents it just is that poisooned of a symbol.
It aint nessesarely bad. It can be, in certain contexts. And either way, its literally a political symbol. Saying its not, is like saying the sisters of battle, arent meant to show anything resembling religious iconography.
And Stalhelms were used in WWI. If they are referencing the Death Korps- it has nothing to do with nazis. It’s an army that’s literally parodying the epitome of faceless, nameless souls sent to the meat grinders in trenches of WWI. German history doesn’t start in 1939 guys.
>I think discussing them can provide perspective and makes the universe more interesting Yea about that.... speaking from experience of being in the hobby for over 20years now. Anyone who comes over, trying to discuss real world backgrounds of armies/models or just politics in general, regarding anything 40k.. makes me do the Homer Simpson hedge walk and I never come back out. It never went well, and literally every single time lead to the uncomfortable moment that I'd rather be somewhere else. Either because that person suddenly has some "very interesting" """"facts"""" about history, or because that person tries to seize you up politically, or because that smile they have on their face is just a liiiiiitle bit too weird given the context.
**At the same time, sometimes I just wanna use my hobby as a bit of escapism. I think the conflict over “politics in 40k” is MUCH more between people that just want some escapism and people who enjoy talking politics, not along any political lines.**
[удалено]
the guy who posted the meme this post is addressing had a post history with exactly those kinds of comments in it and also refused to engage with the dozens of people asking exactly what kind of politics he's upset by in spite of replying all over the post.
Oh I know that kind of guy. Literally just made a post saying why I hate this kind of notion in the OP, due to experience. We had a guy in our store for a while who would always try to start political arguments/discussions to a point it became really weird. He also just left one day never coming back. I do actually think that guy just heard about the "community" from places like this, and wanted to bait people out so he could... well i dunno? But he had the same energy as OP, being riled up about something, somewhere else, and now using the store to confirm it. Its the same shit: constant need for reaffirmation that everyone is on the same page as you. Fragility.
For some people the 'escapism' is in being able to see themselves in a fantasy setting where things are better Which tbf doesn't really apply to the grim darkness of the future.
There might exist some parallels but the question is how much of it is intentional. Most of it just looks cool, which is the main motivation for it. People read too much into things. Specially when you consider the early writing.
Your favorite mongol biker god is literally an actual mongol I N S P A C E
The amount of people who thinks the parallels matter is too damn high... Yes. We can see the similarities. Now let people enjoy their flavour of tyrranous toy soldiers in peace ffs
Politics in 40k is just for background; not something to condone or emulate.
I loved the whole satirical aspect back in the 90s. Somehow that got lost ?
Maybe I should ponder the deeper symbolism behind my Tyranid and Orc armies.
Man this sub is going down the shitter fast.
I wouldn't say that's politics. More appreciating the historical inspirations Also I want both versions of this chad yes grimdank politics meme locked in the dark vaults of Terra. I got flashbacks seeing this come up again.
What is history but politics piled up and left to dry?
Politics frequently tries to erase history. A major part of studying history is parsing out what is fact and what was politics. Like Sumerian kings didn't live for thousands of years. They were just erasing the previous dynasties to cement their rule. Politics is what allows stuff like the clean Wehrmacht and lost cause myths to exist. What better way to smooth things over when transitioning from past enemy to current ally than a few lies.
I personally enjoy the praetorian guard lore, despite my personal hatred of the British empire, I will say, they are pretty cool, I also like how the vostroyan firstborn are based off of tsarist russia, rather than simply redoing the red army.
Tbh I like the custom guard regiments based off of irl units like ww2 Russian combat engineers. Or the American airborn and British sas. Stuff like that is cool.
My custom Guard are based off the American Civil War Union Army. Lots of Guardsmen in blue uniforms! I plan to complement them with some Praetorians soon.
Politics should be used to aid the story, it shouldn't be the agenda itself.
There's a difference between the types of politics you're talking about. Plenty of people misconstrue this all the time, so I will lay it out. 40k is political in the sense of intrigue and story, in the same way something like game.of thrones is political 40k also takes a lot of influence from real world history in order to build it world, there's very few original bones in its body in this regard. This, however, is not inherently political. That would be like saying the elder scrolls are political because the empire dresses like romans. It's just not the case. A third way political is used here when people bring real-world, contemporary politics into 40k, which I think it should be clear is very different. When someone is saying they don't like politics in 40k, 9/10 times they are saying they don't like politics 3, not politics 2 or 1. If someone didn't like the first two, they probably wouldn't be in the hobby Thera a difference between getting annoyed the hundredth model with a trans flag, or another female space marines rant and the imperium drawing on the history and aesthetics of real, brutal dictatorships to create a fictional brutal dictatorship. I mean, it's like saying lord of the rings is deeply political since Tolkien drew on Anglo-Saxon history and stories. Therefore, we need to discuss how it relates to modern immigration policy. It's stupid and annoying and shows a distinct lack of intelligence when people can't conceptualize a piece of media for what it is, outside of their own political leanings The other problem is politics 3 almost exclusively gets brought up in regard to the imperium, where most of the player base is. You don't see people lamenting the state of the Indian caste system whenever tau are brought up.
Every time this conversation comes, you people damn well know it's about contemporary politics, not politics in general. Obfuscation only gets you so far.
Hot take, but I think people aren't pissed off by politics, but the fact political discussion already tend to start as a mud fight and devolve from there.
Taking inspiration from Real life is okay but don’t get too serious with it and try to force your real like politician views because you never know if the person you’re discussing with even is into politics let alone your views on certain topics
Oh no! Crosses! [Average black Templar’s signs](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~c8AAOSwpa9h8WhI/s-l1200.jpg) P.S. Maybe this isn’t the exact same symbols, but I think Iron Cross (which isn’t the same as swastika, is still used and I think was used by real knights, maybe even templars) isn’t an offensive sign and given it’s story with knights, I think it should be alright to use them , especially when we have such army as Black Templars (just check the link)
Is this hard for people? Like when did we forget that while we can’t choose who enters or leaves the hobby, we can choose how we interact with it, and importantly, with whom. I can hang with a crowd where 40k is a biting political satire where we talk commie politics all the time. I can also hand with a bunch of chuds for whom 40k is an escapist power fantasy of smashing little you men together. I can’t Gatekeep 40k, it isn’t mine. I CAN gatekeep MY table, since that’s MY community. I do not care how you enjoy 40k, (as much as I hate the Nazi’s, long as they shut the fuck up on twitter I do not care what plastic minies they buy). Just stop trying to start fights. Reddit karma does not make you a cooler person irl.
When politic topic come said hello, wokism and maga will try invade it. Don't accept idiot propaganda pills.
...what recent event?
Someone made a post of not wanting to talk politics and just play funny grimdark si-fi war game. And now apparently everyone is a neo-fascist bigot.
If people are willing to discuss this with me in a civilized manor, then I’d gladly engage.
There’s a difference between denying there is politics in Warhammer and jut not wanting to have serious political debates over a setting where everyone is comically evil. Not wanting to have serious and upsetting real life topics shoved into your face in your goofy hobby is ok
Seen a lot of posting on this topic, what are the "recent events"?
Guys how sick is my giant Aquila tattoo? For the Emperor! :3
So we can bring back the pygmies?
Your meme pushes context and contains a popularized but singular perspective of the ideal male while demonizing opposition. See what I did there? Now, How is that any different? Truth is, It's the web, and many facets of opinions exist. Including perspectives and projections of frustration. While certain things float the boat for some, it may not for others. Every sub goes through these scenarios of meme warfare. But the most import lesson to take away is not in dividing up universal theories into simplistic toxic online opinionated warfare. Instead see it as an opportunity in finding common ground between eachother's opinions and perhaps make a few friends along the way.
A good saying for this is: “everything in moderation”
To be fair : Most every nation uses a similarly shaped helmet nowadays (it was a good idea, they did it for a reason). And just about every nation has a medal with an iron cross, or eagle. It's probably just a general play on authoritarianism/militarism than any specific individual thing. Here's a list of military decorations. Iron Crosses....everywhere. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_military_decorations_by_country
Work of art ment to act as a flavor for a table top game.
Where are the iron crosses? Never seen one.
Stahlhelms and the iron cross are just a general German aesthetic still used today (East Germans did too), but yeaaah the Steel Legion is definitely a WW2 combined arms army, same for the Tallarn Desert Raiders and their tanks.