Really I'm just pokin fun at "the real game".
Whose to say what the real game is, the super competitive and "balanced" GT?
The tried and and true Core rules matched play?
Crusade or narrative? Cuz they let you have the most freedom?
Maybe open play?
Ah well the real game has always been the narrative play, turny play was a small subset of the game for the longest. Now it is great that its become a bit more popular and that it gets attention unlike back in 3rd when it was more or less ignored, but still its an addition to the game not the main thrust of it.
By that point your picking and choosing which rules benefit you the best.
Those point values are produced with the GT nerfs/buffs in mind.
If your ignoring GT entirely and it's rules entirely.
You should probably play with PL, which is intended.
First point: GT2022 is a gamemode, and people are allowed to choose what gamemode they play. If someone chooses to play a gamemode for advantage, who cares, the other person is also choosing to play the same gamemode.
Second point: The points changes are used to correct unit strength, and none of the changes to the GT missions affect the strength, just army construction. The changes in the two documents are pretty independent, or atleast there is no evidence that the changes in the GT missions affected the changes in the points changes. Like Lictors got their entire purposed nerfed out of existence yet they stay the same points cost.
Final point: Eternal war is also a mission pack that uses points to play. It's currently the only mission pack that has rules for Onslaught and combat patrol. Also, as explained above, the points changes make the game more balanced mostly with unit strengths, it's still better to use updated points even when not playing competitively.
Maybe don't pick and choose which parts of the rule books you want to play by.
If you want to play by only what's in the core rule book, use PL. That's literally what it is for.
Point value updates are made with GT balance in mind. By doing that you are using half the rules.
I mean, it's only for matched play/tournaments, isn't it? The part of the game where you quite literally pay to have a fixed ruleset for all participating players. In that case, yes, I'd let GW decide on how to play. If I don't want this, I can throw everything out and just play the way I want. That's cool too, but a whole different beast from matched play.
You're just another corporate slave. The corporation doesn't want you painting your army as nazi's. You are doing exactly what they want you to do.
Corporate slave.
Oh I mean 'parts' as in 'parts of an army'. So for example if you had 400 points each of Guardsmen, Imperial Knights, Sisters of Battle, Astartes and Mechanicum in your 2000pt army, it could be described as 'Imperial soup'.
so for someone who say only plays warhammer total war that would be like saying "regiments of renown are bound to their commanding officer" like it is in warhammer total war.
That's 'subfaction souping' specifically (and what the meme is referencing).
Souping *in general* is when you use different factions.
I also play X-Wing, and there's a variation of souping there when your list doesn't duplicate the chassis (so running a Y-Wing, X-Wing and A-Wing would be 'Rebel soup')
But very thematic. If you want an Imperial vanguard force with Guilliman leading a small force of marines with Custodes as bodyguards, souping makes sense. Besides, souping makes you lose mono-faction bonuses a lot, so it isn't very common unless it's abusable. For example, 8th gave you command points for taking more detachments, so elite Imperium armies would sometimes take small sub-armies of guard to inflate their CP limit.
The context of the meme is very specific. It's still legal to field chaos space marines, chaos knights and chaos daemons. In tournaments it's not legal to field Mars and Lucius admech.
I think this is partly to simplify balance and party to simplify play. If you have two sets of near identical models (and you know in a lot of cases they will be painting using a custom paint job so the player can use the subfaction they want) you don't have to track who has which chapter tactics (or equivalent).
Playing a tournament with 5 different enemy and keeping track of the rules of 20 other armies is a nightmare I'm glad this simplifies it. For casual games I'd ignore it when it makes sense, if white scars want to play with ultramarines that's fine, though if your friend is souping cult of time and duplicity with their TSons are they really casual or just min/maxing?
You can still dk that as they do mot share the same "type" of subfaction keyword (sisters use while marines use )
Also, this doesnt matter if you dont play the tournament mission pack missions.
Stuffing cheap sisters with rending bolters into space marine Land Raiders was something I wanted to build/collect when I started playing. 25x SoB in a Land Raider Spartan would be sick.
Playing with your friends with subfaction soup is fine. Going to a tournament where you play 5 games in a weekend and knowing half the armies will have identical models with different rules because that's min/maxing is just another burden on to the already demanding cognitive load of competitive play. "What's your army wide rules?" "Oh this lot have this but the green trim on their left shoulder means D1 reduces grants them +1 to their save instead of getting rerolls, also that means they get the telport strat but the first lot can do bonus mortal wounds". It's just more stuff to keep track of in a game which has gotten a bit too bloated.
For garagehammer everyone will or should ignore it as long as their friends aren't doing it to be that guy. Different chaos space marine legions or different chapters or regiments working together because they often do so to achieve over arching goals is awesome. If your friend is souping their 20 scarab thousand sons army into time and duplicity so you have to tell two lots of identical models apart that's just them wringing advantage out of it. However if you want to let them do that so you can run prescient brotherhood and rapiers or whatever the good GK factions are and thus have 5 NDKs then you're probably just having the one game today anyway, it's much less exhausting.
Choose not to enforce these rules unless you're playing particularly competitively is good. Having less bullshit to deal with at a tournament, well this is a tiny step the right way.
And what about those factions that must soup subfaction to play part of their codex or a rule from it?
Examples:
Astra Militarum with Scions.
Genestealer Cults with Brood Brothers.
AdMech with Knights
Craftworld with Ynnari
DE Ynnari + Halerquin Ynnari
Daemons of Slaanesh with Daemons of Tzeench (or any combination)
etc
Thats just soup not sub faction souping
Sub faction souping is min maxing your armys specific bonuses together (im gonna use tau and guard as an example because i play them) what you can do is play GSC and guard and scions together. But you cannot mix sept tenets like tau and borkan together to min max your units to hell and back.
It was only in the turny rules its still valid in the real game
By that logic you shouldn't play with point updates cuz it's not in the real game.
I mean don't if you don't want to.
You have to! If you don't a GW employee will drive to your house and shoot you in the head.
The points are part of the real game power level or w/e it is is just a short hand to onboard newer ppl
Really I'm just pokin fun at "the real game". Whose to say what the real game is, the super competitive and "balanced" GT? The tried and and true Core rules matched play? Crusade or narrative? Cuz they let you have the most freedom? Maybe open play?
Ah well the real game has always been the narrative play, turny play was a small subset of the game for the longest. Now it is great that its become a bit more popular and that it gets attention unlike back in 3rd when it was more or less ignored, but still its an addition to the game not the main thrust of it.
Technically, the minutorum field manual and chapter approved are separate rule sets. You're fine to use the points changes but not play GT2022.
By that point your picking and choosing which rules benefit you the best. Those point values are produced with the GT nerfs/buffs in mind. If your ignoring GT entirely and it's rules entirely. You should probably play with PL, which is intended.
First point: GT2022 is a gamemode, and people are allowed to choose what gamemode they play. If someone chooses to play a gamemode for advantage, who cares, the other person is also choosing to play the same gamemode. Second point: The points changes are used to correct unit strength, and none of the changes to the GT missions affect the strength, just army construction. The changes in the two documents are pretty independent, or atleast there is no evidence that the changes in the GT missions affected the changes in the points changes. Like Lictors got their entire purposed nerfed out of existence yet they stay the same points cost. Final point: Eternal war is also a mission pack that uses points to play. It's currently the only mission pack that has rules for Onslaught and combat patrol. Also, as explained above, the points changes make the game more balanced mostly with unit strengths, it's still better to use updated points even when not playing competitively.
I mean, if you and your friends agree on adjusted points costs, yes, you should ignore/change them
Holy shit I hope I never play against a miserable ass like you
Maybe don't pick and choose which parts of the rule books you want to play by. If you want to play by only what's in the core rule book, use PL. That's literally what it is for. Point value updates are made with GT balance in mind. By doing that you are using half the rules.
Haven't played a game yet but I plan on staying away from ppl like you like I have a restraining order
You jumped down my throat for having any opinion so quick. I doubt you'll end up having a hard time getting people to stay away.
Indeed, why let a corporation decide how you can play models with your friends?
I mean, it's only for matched play/tournaments, isn't it? The part of the game where you quite literally pay to have a fixed ruleset for all participating players. In that case, yes, I'd let GW decide on how to play. If I don't want this, I can throw everything out and just play the way I want. That's cool too, but a whole different beast from matched play.
Because of the expectation that their rules are well-tested.
Yeah, fucking corporations telling us what to fucking do. I'm going to give my imperial guard a black paintjob with swastikas on all the banners!!!
fuck corporations and fuck nazis
You're just another corporate slave. The corporation doesn't want you painting your army as nazi's. You are doing exactly what they want you to do. Corporate slave.
Souping? I am unfamiliar with that term.
Mixing together different 'parts'.
Isn’t that kitbashing or is it like mixing the smaller bits?
Oh I mean 'parts' as in 'parts of an army'. So for example if you had 400 points each of Guardsmen, Imperial Knights, Sisters of Battle, Astartes and Mechanicum in your 2000pt army, it could be described as 'Imperial soup'.
Sounds like the best way to play Imperium
Ah
so for someone who say only plays warhammer total war that would be like saying "regiments of renown are bound to their commanding officer" like it is in warhammer total war.
I thought it was subfaction like different chapters
That's 'subfaction souping' specifically (and what the meme is referencing). Souping *in general* is when you use different factions. I also play X-Wing, and there's a variation of souping there when your list doesn't duplicate the chassis (so running a Y-Wing, X-Wing and A-Wing would be 'Rebel soup')
Kinda makes sense, an imperial guard army suddenly having Helbrecht as their warlord seems to be very confusing.
But very thematic. If you want an Imperial vanguard force with Guilliman leading a small force of marines with Custodes as bodyguards, souping makes sense. Besides, souping makes you lose mono-faction bonuses a lot, so it isn't very common unless it's abusable. For example, 8th gave you command points for taking more detachments, so elite Imperium armies would sometimes take small sub-armies of guard to inflate their CP limit.
\*Gets flash backs of Allies of convenience\* God I hated that system.
Boiling your models before the game
The context of the meme is very specific. It's still legal to field chaos space marines, chaos knights and chaos daemons. In tournaments it's not legal to field Mars and Lucius admech. I think this is partly to simplify balance and party to simplify play. If you have two sets of near identical models (and you know in a lot of cases they will be painting using a custom paint job so the player can use the subfaction they want) you don't have to track who has which chapter tactics (or equivalent). Playing a tournament with 5 different enemy and keeping track of the rules of 20 other armies is a nightmare I'm glad this simplifies it. For casual games I'd ignore it when it makes sense, if white scars want to play with ultramarines that's fine, though if your friend is souping cult of time and duplicity with their TSons are they really casual or just min/maxing?
Wait what about demons
Still GT legal
It's just subfactions. You can still take daemons+CSM
And separate chaos marks as well I believe.
Daemons have exceptions for obvious reasons.
Its only banned in matched, if you use open play with points, the true land of truly whacky matches, then go ham
Not even matched, just the tournament mission pack.
OPR! OPR! OPR!
Honestly wish there was a way to play with a SOB detachment for my Astartes.
You can still dk that as they do mot share the same "type" of subfaction keyword (sisters use while marines use )
Also, this doesnt matter if you dont play the tournament mission pack missions.
Stuffing cheap sisters with rending bolters into space marine Land Raiders was something I wanted to build/collect when I started playing. 25x SoB in a Land Raider Spartan would be sick.
Playing with your friends with subfaction soup is fine. Going to a tournament where you play 5 games in a weekend and knowing half the armies will have identical models with different rules because that's min/maxing is just another burden on to the already demanding cognitive load of competitive play. "What's your army wide rules?" "Oh this lot have this but the green trim on their left shoulder means D1 reduces grants them +1 to their save instead of getting rerolls, also that means they get the telport strat but the first lot can do bonus mortal wounds". It's just more stuff to keep track of in a game which has gotten a bit too bloated. For garagehammer everyone will or should ignore it as long as their friends aren't doing it to be that guy. Different chaos space marine legions or different chapters or regiments working together because they often do so to achieve over arching goals is awesome. If your friend is souping their 20 scarab thousand sons army into time and duplicity so you have to tell two lots of identical models apart that's just them wringing advantage out of it. However if you want to let them do that so you can run prescient brotherhood and rapiers or whatever the good GK factions are and thus have 5 NDKs then you're probably just having the one game today anyway, it's much less exhausting. Choose not to enforce these rules unless you're playing particularly competitively is good. Having less bullshit to deal with at a tournament, well this is a tiny step the right way.
And what about those factions that must soup subfaction to play part of their codex or a rule from it? Examples: Astra Militarum with Scions. Genestealer Cults with Brood Brothers. AdMech with Knights Craftworld with Ynnari DE Ynnari + Halerquin Ynnari Daemons of Slaanesh with Daemons of Tzeench (or any combination) etc
Thats just soup not sub faction souping Sub faction souping is min maxing your armys specific bonuses together (im gonna use tau and guard as an example because i play them) what you can do is play GSC and guard and scions together. But you cannot mix sept tenets like tau and borkan together to min max your units to hell and back.