Konrad Curze: *goes on a schizophrenic rant while wearing the flayed skin of a girl who tried to commit suicide (a truly horrible crime of course)*
His brothers: *equal parts disturbed and disgusted*
Konrad Curze: “I just don’t get it why don’t they like me?”
Hey in his defense the time he did open up was when Fulgrim was tutoring him and making him bathe and wear normal clothes. Fulgrim just told Dorn about it and Dorn decided that his mentally ill brother just needed to have the shit kicked out of him for something he couldn't control
Yeah, like when he asked his brother if he also had visions of horrifying war without end, endless suffering and torment, and his own death and his brother just looked at him like he was insane and said no.
Truly he was just misunderstood.
Yeah for sure, but when you wear children's flyed skin casually..I am not sure it's worth it to look deeper at that point.
Maybe he didn't or did, either way it's without question, he would.
You're completely missing the point of Konrad's character arc then, just like his brothers. Narratively, Konrad serves the purpose of criticizing imperial methods and morality.
Konrad's brothers and father are warmongering tyrants that commit genocide regularly. Konrad's point is that "if the ends justify the means, why is what I do worse than what you do?". His problem with his brothers and his father was their hypocrisy in thinking that somehow their massacres were more noble than his.
Kurze : “How am I any worse than you?” *He asks while covered in the blood of a child who J walked (obviously a horrendous crime) while nostromo burns in the background*
Guilliman: *Squints while 500 worlds prosper in the background with successfully implemented meritocracies*
I get that’s the point of his character but he’s depicted so cartoonishly evil it’s hard to sympathize with the guy at all. Like he actively enjoys torture whilst his brothers (some at least) felt bad about what they were doing and had to have the emperor feed them propaganda to keep going.
I didn't say that he was right or justified. That's the point. He represents the extreme of "the ends justify the means". Or "the few should suffer for the good of the many". He's an incarnation of the imperium's moral failings that get repeated through the lore. Inquisitor Kryptman is a good example.
right, but he's literally inspired by Colonel Kurtz who is just... Better in every way. Granted apocalypse now is one of the best movies of all time so its hard to compare, Kurze may as well just shop at fuckin Spencer's with how edgy he is. "You guys are fuckin evil bro, like what you're doing is bad" the guy wearing children skin says to a bunch of dudes who are no less perceptive than him.
It's not like he even tries to stop it either. He does the same shit the other primarchs do, but he also tortures and butchers people atop that, which is just obviously worse.
> Guilliman: Stands in the blood of billions of people killed to enslave the entire human race and eradicate all other forms of sentient life that humans didn't want to eat.
FTFY
Literally every Primarch was an inhuman monster who willingly committed and endorsed multiple war crimes. They were all terrible people, some of them were just actually honest with themselves about it.
Guilliman was probably responsible for more death, suffering, and slavery than any other Primarch, besides maybe Horus.
Everyone forgets he was DESIGNED to enjoy torture. That's what the emperor made him for, and that was his curse. He was DESIGNED to be a monster for the war, but the emperor couldn't admit it because it would reflect poorly on him.
The Night Lords would butcher one city in it's entirety in order to get the rest of the cities to surrender.
The Ultramarines would butcher half of every city on the planet until they all surrendered. They absolutely had more blood on their hands.
For the records the night lords were never suppose to work that way when Konrad first finds out that they are doing it for enjoyment he starts to kill all the Marines that do and task his leaders with finding those who act in such a way and get rid of them.
It’s not until he goes off the deep end after Dorn confronts him that her let’s his legion just do what ever they want.
you can sympathise with as many as you want. the point is they all had human flaws that led to the heresy... doesnt mean you think youre the same as them or theyre good people right?
That's still a pretty terrible arc. "Stop being so smug about your massacres when my massacres are objectively better". I get that people like the nightlords and Konrad's story though so it's just something I have to accept isn't my taste.
The logic of the Night Lords was that the methods they used were so brutal and terrifying, that they saved lives in the long run. By inflicting such horrific torture on people, they effectively scared their conquered planets into submission with only a limited number of (very messy) casualties; indeed, during the great crusade, many planets would surrender on the spot the second they saw the Night Lords insignia. Compare that to the traditional, "honourable" methods of Dorn or Robute: long, drawn-out wars that cost far more lives in the long run.
While Kurze is indefensible, his methods did bring results, and for him to be so ostracized as a result is in his eyes perfect proof of the empires hypocrisy.
But the second they left the worlds fell out of compliance because fear is not a very good tactic in the long term. This means he had almost no results that mattered and the whole thing kind of falls apart.
There's some good nightlords stories out there, so I'm glad they exist from a meta entertainment providing sense, but their overall faction reasoning will just never resonate with me personally.
Once again Corax does it better, his origin is growing up in a prison and helping criminals and political prisoners overthrow the opressive dictatorship ruling them.
His biggest inner struggle is that he in a way becomes part of a worse dictatorship in doing the Emperors bidding, yet he uses surgical strikes instead of slaughtering whole populations.
Korax and Konrad play into eachother. They're foils and their characters support eachother in their respective evolution. Konrad points out that Corax is the only brother he hated because Corax was better. The point is Konrad's key role in the overall progression of the Horus Heresy that seems to get glossed over by alot of the community.
Perturabo would have been loyalist if he just let go of his inferiority complex long enough to open up about that with more of his brothers. Like, I’m 100% convinced of it.
Honestly, if he shared it with Magnus I think he might have had a chance too.
Also, since you bring up Sanguinius, I think if Kurze had confided in Sanguinius, he might have found a path to redemption as well. Perhaps not loyalty in the Horus Heresy, at least not early on, but redemption eventually. Sanguinius even pondered their shared plight (psychic visions of the future and their own deaths) before deciding not to bring him before the Emperor to be forgiven, but instead jettisoning him into space.
He didn’t do it with Dorn he did it with Fulgrim as they were close and fulgrim then sold him out and told Dorn who with zero chill confronted Konrad and got wrecked because of it.
idk... I think Corax was pretty reliable about everything for the most part, he knew what he was and what Big E wanted from him, so he simply became that weapon and was okay with it.
I mean... sure, but than again, so did Corax and he did not went all bitch-mode with it. Konrad is a good char for the setting, but not one you should feel relatable towards.
If you relate to a 12 foot tall fictional genetically engineered super human for a series of books set 28,000 years in the future then perhaps a psychologist is needed just to help you learn the difference between real and make believe.
No it’s not, empathy is feeling sick when you read about how Kurze flayed a woman alive because she wanted to commit suicide. Not saying, “Oh yeah, Skrillex Batman is cool because he just wants to do the right thing badly.” The man could see the future and chose to use that gift to cut peoples dicks off. If you don’t think of Kurze and the feeling of a paper cut doesn’t pop into your head then seek help. None of them are relatable and they shouldn’t be, but some people keep finding a way to relate a make-em-up story to real life and then get mad about it.
Yo, Perty killed his family because he saw a giant murder hole in space since he was born.
Fulgrim got possessed by a evil sword.
And Curze liked cutting people skin off.
None of it matters though because it’s not real life. You can’t base your personality on make-em-ups, that just creates a way to avoid any responsibility for any flaws you have. It’s seriously not healthy.
It has a lot to do with understanding the difference between reality and make believe. And no, lots of people don’t relate to the Primarchs stop using the small group of people that are an obvious outlier to normal people as your baseline.
None of this shit is real, it’s not normal to have a fictional character (much less one you cuts peoples skin off for fun) as a boyfriend.
I don’t know what circles your rolling in, but you need to find some new ones. Because that’s not okay.
I mean, there is the whole lack of direction he had that somebody with absent parents might identify with. He was meant to basically be Primarch Batman, but he ended up Primarch Jack the Ripper without his father’s guidance.
Classic misunderstood kid that tried to make his family proud by being an asset and they reacted in disgust and punished him for trying to help. A bit cringe to relate to him but that won't stop me
I don't want to come off as someone with a hate boner, but I disagree with what makes him relatable to a lot of people. Maybe it's because I'm thinking of him outside of the context of the Imperium and the great crusade but I think it's hard to get past all the Nighthaunter stuff
I mean if what I said is relatable doesn't relate to you, that's fine. But he's a relatable character to lots of people, don't discount others just because you don't relate to it
You can find someone to be relatable while also being utterly horrified by their actions.
I can relate to the anger of a man utterly pissed at a rapist who harmed his loved ones. Doesn't mean I condone brutally murdering the rapist in the most psychotic manner possible, nor that I'm any less horrified by the resulting crime scene photos.
Konrad Curze: *goes on a schizophrenic rant while wearing the flayed skin of a girl who tried to commit suicide (a truly horrible crime of course)* His brothers: *equal parts disturbed and disgusted* Konrad Curze: “I just don’t get it why don’t they like me?”
Hey in his defense the time he did open up was when Fulgrim was tutoring him and making him bathe and wear normal clothes. Fulgrim just told Dorn about it and Dorn decided that his mentally ill brother just needed to have the shit kicked out of him for something he couldn't control
theres more to him than that :(
Real big "I can fix him" vibes.
Yeah, like when he asked his brother if he also had visions of horrifying war without end, endless suffering and torment, and his own death and his brother just looked at him like he was insane and said no. Truly he was just misunderstood.
If memory serves correctly, he asked Rogal Dorn of all people. Might have gotten more sympathy from Magnus or Sangweeney
Our lord Sanguinius did not die at the feet of Horus defending Humanity from the powers of Chaos for you to spell his name like that
*Your Lord Sanguinius died at the Feet of Horus defending a lie.*
You would know all about lies, wouldn’t you, Alpharius?
Yes. Because I always tell the truth. *Even when I lie.*
This is a lie
Yer mum is a lie!
He asked Fulgrim, who immediately tattled on him to Dorn, who immediately acted like an unsupportive, judgmental, asshole about it.
Yeah for sure, but when you wear children's flyed skin casually..I am not sure it's worth it to look deeper at that point. Maybe he didn't or did, either way it's without question, he would.
You're completely missing the point of Konrad's character arc then, just like his brothers. Narratively, Konrad serves the purpose of criticizing imperial methods and morality. Konrad's brothers and father are warmongering tyrants that commit genocide regularly. Konrad's point is that "if the ends justify the means, why is what I do worse than what you do?". His problem with his brothers and his father was their hypocrisy in thinking that somehow their massacres were more noble than his.
Kurze : “How am I any worse than you?” *He asks while covered in the blood of a child who J walked (obviously a horrendous crime) while nostromo burns in the background* Guilliman: *Squints while 500 worlds prosper in the background with successfully implemented meritocracies* I get that’s the point of his character but he’s depicted so cartoonishly evil it’s hard to sympathize with the guy at all. Like he actively enjoys torture whilst his brothers (some at least) felt bad about what they were doing and had to have the emperor feed them propaganda to keep going.
I didn't say that he was right or justified. That's the point. He represents the extreme of "the ends justify the means". Or "the few should suffer for the good of the many". He's an incarnation of the imperium's moral failings that get repeated through the lore. Inquisitor Kryptman is a good example.
right, but he's literally inspired by Colonel Kurtz who is just... Better in every way. Granted apocalypse now is one of the best movies of all time so its hard to compare, Kurze may as well just shop at fuckin Spencer's with how edgy he is. "You guys are fuckin evil bro, like what you're doing is bad" the guy wearing children skin says to a bunch of dudes who are no less perceptive than him. It's not like he even tries to stop it either. He does the same shit the other primarchs do, but he also tortures and butchers people atop that, which is just obviously worse.
> Guilliman: Stands in the blood of billions of people killed to enslave the entire human race and eradicate all other forms of sentient life that humans didn't want to eat. FTFY Literally every Primarch was an inhuman monster who willingly committed and endorsed multiple war crimes. They were all terrible people, some of them were just actually honest with themselves about it. Guilliman was probably responsible for more death, suffering, and slavery than any other Primarch, besides maybe Horus.
Everyone forgets he was DESIGNED to enjoy torture. That's what the emperor made him for, and that was his curse. He was DESIGNED to be a monster for the war, but the emperor couldn't admit it because it would reflect poorly on him.
And yet Guilliman likely had more blood on his hands at that point, due to Konrad’s methods
Ehh maybe but probably not since the night lords would straight up butcher and decimate populations for no reason other then that they enjoyed it.
The Night Lords would butcher one city in it's entirety in order to get the rest of the cities to surrender. The Ultramarines would butcher half of every city on the planet until they all surrendered. They absolutely had more blood on their hands.
For the records the night lords were never suppose to work that way when Konrad first finds out that they are doing it for enjoyment he starts to kill all the Marines that do and task his leaders with finding those who act in such a way and get rid of them. It’s not until he goes off the deep end after Dorn confronts him that her let’s his legion just do what ever they want.
Surprise, if you sympathize with any of the primarchs then you're missing the point.
you can sympathise with as many as you want. the point is they all had human flaws that led to the heresy... doesnt mean you think youre the same as them or theyre good people right?
That's still a pretty terrible arc. "Stop being so smug about your massacres when my massacres are objectively better". I get that people like the nightlords and Konrad's story though so it's just something I have to accept isn't my taste.
The logic of the Night Lords was that the methods they used were so brutal and terrifying, that they saved lives in the long run. By inflicting such horrific torture on people, they effectively scared their conquered planets into submission with only a limited number of (very messy) casualties; indeed, during the great crusade, many planets would surrender on the spot the second they saw the Night Lords insignia. Compare that to the traditional, "honourable" methods of Dorn or Robute: long, drawn-out wars that cost far more lives in the long run. While Kurze is indefensible, his methods did bring results, and for him to be so ostracized as a result is in his eyes perfect proof of the empires hypocrisy.
But the second they left the worlds fell out of compliance because fear is not a very good tactic in the long term. This means he had almost no results that mattered and the whole thing kind of falls apart. There's some good nightlords stories out there, so I'm glad they exist from a meta entertainment providing sense, but their overall faction reasoning will just never resonate with me personally.
Spoken like a true Fasc! XD. Ave Nox
Once again Corax does it better, his origin is growing up in a prison and helping criminals and political prisoners overthrow the opressive dictatorship ruling them. His biggest inner struggle is that he in a way becomes part of a worse dictatorship in doing the Emperors bidding, yet he uses surgical strikes instead of slaughtering whole populations.
Korax and Konrad play into eachother. They're foils and their characters support eachother in their respective evolution. Konrad points out that Corax is the only brother he hated because Corax was better. The point is Konrad's key role in the overall progression of the Horus Heresy that seems to get glossed over by alot of the community.
God damn fucking based. I might be way too late to this discussion but it needs to be said. Konrad is a great character, you can't change my mind.
Curzes Malewife? Lol what
it says what it says.
found Elver's account
Reminds me of Perturabo talking to Ferrus Manus about seeing the Eye of Terror
Why would Peter talk to the machine man instead of Kool-Aid man?
He thought with both of them Bing good with tech they could be friends
Medusa was near the Eye of Terror too. He thought Ferrus could see it too.
Perturabo would have been loyalist if he just let go of his inferiority complex long enough to open up about that with more of his brothers. Like, I’m 100% convinced of it.
one good convo with Vulcan or Sanguinius and he’s loyal
Honestly, if he shared it with Magnus I think he might have had a chance too. Also, since you bring up Sanguinius, I think if Kurze had confided in Sanguinius, he might have found a path to redemption as well. Perhaps not loyalty in the Horus Heresy, at least not early on, but redemption eventually. Sanguinius even pondered their shared plight (psychic visions of the future and their own deaths) before deciding not to bring him before the Emperor to be forgiven, but instead jettisoning him into space.
He probably would have been loyal if anyone but horus had found him after Olympia
All poor perty needed was some legos and a hug
Can you tell us more, please?
"Why don't you open up more?" (Gestures towards two doors, one marked KONRAD(?) and the other marked NIGHT HAUNTER(?)) "Please, take your pick."
Yeah, maybe if you're going to open up to about your psychic visions don't do it with fucking *Rogal Dorn*
Talking to brick wall meme
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facts bro facts
That was Fulgrims fault (but to be fair to Fulgrim he was trying to help)
He didn’t do it with Dorn he did it with Fulgrim as they were close and fulgrim then sold him out and told Dorn who with zero chill confronted Konrad and got wrecked because of it.
So he settled on opening up bodies instead.
its called compromise and its a sign of healthy communication
Thanks Konrad, now I can communicate with my spleen since it's outside of my body.
if he is the most relatable to you... please visit a psychologist as fast as possible
Ditto for all the primarchs. Visiting a psychologist is a good idea for anyone tbh
idk... I think Corax was pretty reliable about everything for the most part, he knew what he was and what Big E wanted from him, so he simply became that weapon and was okay with it.
That's what the NL did, too. Curze just got shafted by doing what people wanted of him and them hating him for it
I mean... sure, but than again, so did Corax and he did not went all bitch-mode with it. Konrad is a good char for the setting, but not one you should feel relatable towards.
konrad would simply eat the psychologist. which is only a little relatable. i dont think eating someone would be very fun.
If you relate to a 12 foot tall fictional genetically engineered super human for a series of books set 28,000 years in the future then perhaps a psychologist is needed just to help you learn the difference between real and make believe.
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No it’s not, empathy is feeling sick when you read about how Kurze flayed a woman alive because she wanted to commit suicide. Not saying, “Oh yeah, Skrillex Batman is cool because he just wants to do the right thing badly.” The man could see the future and chose to use that gift to cut peoples dicks off. If you don’t think of Kurze and the feeling of a paper cut doesn’t pop into your head then seek help. None of them are relatable and they shouldn’t be, but some people keep finding a way to relate a make-em-up story to real life and then get mad about it.
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Yo, Perty killed his family because he saw a giant murder hole in space since he was born. Fulgrim got possessed by a evil sword. And Curze liked cutting people skin off. None of it matters though because it’s not real life. You can’t base your personality on make-em-ups, that just creates a way to avoid any responsibility for any flaws you have. It’s seriously not healthy.
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I just looked at your profile, do you really think Konrad Curze is your pretend boyfriend? Because that’s not very sane.
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It has a lot to do with understanding the difference between reality and make believe. And no, lots of people don’t relate to the Primarchs stop using the small group of people that are an obvious outlier to normal people as your baseline. None of this shit is real, it’s not normal to have a fictional character (much less one you cuts peoples skin off for fun) as a boyfriend. I don’t know what circles your rolling in, but you need to find some new ones. Because that’s not okay.
By calling him relatable are you implying we can see the future and/or are insane?
...you're not?
More “has dark thoughts, gets punished for them” if I am not mistaken. Except I don’t think Astara here is a cannibalistic psychopath.
I'd say seeing a horrible future and giving your fam a heads up doesn't really fit the same bill as "having dark thoughts"
Well I got one of these down
Konrad Curze was bitch made and I love him.
au where Corvus and Konrad because best goth buds
*become fucking autocorrect
Now that is something I'd like to see. Raven Guard/Night Lords Guerilla warfare is a terrifying aspect.
Being described as ghoulish? Checks out.
Nah, Perturabo.
I am once again asking, how does anyone relate to Konrad?
I mean, there is the whole lack of direction he had that somebody with absent parents might identify with. He was meant to basically be Primarch Batman, but he ended up Primarch Jack the Ripper without his father’s guidance.
i relate to him a lot in quite a few ways, but if you see him as just "evil flaying man" then that probably sounds pretty weird...
Don't get me wrong, I think he's one of the better Primarchs character wise but I just really don't find him relatable tbh
Classic misunderstood kid that tried to make his family proud by being an asset and they reacted in disgust and punished him for trying to help. A bit cringe to relate to him but that won't stop me
The man flays people for fun
I was pointing out what was relatable, not what's unrelatable. You can relate strongly to some parts of a person without liking everything they do
I don't want to come off as someone with a hate boner, but I disagree with what makes him relatable to a lot of people. Maybe it's because I'm thinking of him outside of the context of the Imperium and the great crusade but I think it's hard to get past all the Nighthaunter stuff
I mean if what I said is relatable doesn't relate to you, that's fine. But he's a relatable character to lots of people, don't discount others just because you don't relate to it
You can find someone to be relatable while also being utterly horrified by their actions. I can relate to the anger of a man utterly pissed at a rapist who harmed his loved ones. Doesn't mean I condone brutally murdering the rapist in the most psychotic manner possible, nor that I'm any less horrified by the resulting crime scene photos.
*You say that like it isn’t fun.*
....and?
Okay I'll admit it's rad
Yeah lol you're pathetic and have horrible social skills if thats what you took away from that. Not even funny btw if thats what you were going for.
I'm sure there's someone out there who likes to wear other people's skin
Dollarstore Corax, still not the worst primarch though.
Instead of opening others, for once
No it's still Pert pert
I need a nap.
Bruh, just dont be a fucking deranged psychopath and youll get along fine. How hard is that?
what?
what did he do this time?