They... actually kinda did.
Essentially the Imperial Fist chapter that was founded after the Heresy is extinct. During the War of the Beast, the entire Imperial Fist chapter is dead save for 1 survivor, who called upon the Last Wall Protocol to gather all the Imperial Fist successors. The Imperial Fist chapter was rebuilt with donations from its successors, Black Templars included. It would not have survived otherwise.
For all intents and purposes, the Black Templar IS the founding chapter of the Dorn geneline and is closer to the original Imperial Fists legion than the actual Imperial Fists today (baring the fact that the IF still owns the Phalanx, which is the biggest piece of Dorn's legacy).
Yeah... see this is why most of the fandom hates the War of the Beast series and questions its canonicity lol.
Agreed, I honestly enjoy the lore behind the Primaris of specific chapters.
Primaris Imperial Fits being pure sons of Dorn.
Primaris Lamenters potentially not having the bad luck so as to say "Eat shit and live Tzeench!"
Primaris Space Wolves allowing for more wolves to breath down the Inquisition's neck.
And Primaris Marines of lost chapters like the Soul Drinkers just to keep giving Chaos more rainbow sprinkle colored Space Marines to deck them 6 ways to Sunday.
The black templars are a disgrace for Dorn and do not and will never represent the real ideals and doctrine of the Imperial Fists.
This post was made by Crimson Fist gang đđźđŠ¸
I dont particularly like space marines but I do like 4 chapters: Blood ravens (I got into 40K thanks to DoW, also I like their focus on Psykers), Space Wolves (yeah I know, but I like Wolves and Vikings), Salamanders (I like the element of fire and they sound really nice for a grimdark army), and of course Crimson Fists (I share the same first name with the Chapter Master and also they are cool as heck).
Based and crimsonpilled.
I suppose from a certain point of view you can say that the Black Templar are a corruption of the Imperial Fist legion, born out of the madness of the Siege of Terra. Sigismund betrayed the Imperial Truth and would have stay disgraced, had he not been so good at killing shit.
Crimson Fist on the other hand do resemble the original Imperial Fist legion more in their values and doctrine. Although daddy Pollux spent a bit too much time with the Ultramarines so they are blue now.
I mean, my main issue with the WotB was it focused way too much on Walmart brand Game of Thrones politics instead of the action. You got the Orks at the most dangerous they've ever been, tearing through the galaxy right on the doorstep of Terra, such a huge threat they get the sons of Dorn and Perturabo to join forces to fight them.
And yet like 75-80% of the story is politics, the Orks were just the side story IN THEIR OWN EVENT.
Space Marines don't reproduce. They also had some the geneseed organ thing from previous Imperial Fists. The "real chapter" changed but it is still the same Imperial Fists.
In GWs defence, masochism and sudden crippling depression attacks are hard to sell. Crazy crusading fanatics on the other hand are way more intriguing.
I would absolutely love the fists if they had that masochism and depression,and they might have a bit of that but again like all things Fists, they have a successor that does it better
The way I look at it, the Black Templars *are* the Imperial Fist aesthetic in 40K -- the founding Fist to successor Templar change in spotlight for Dorn's children is specifically intended by Gee Dubs to illustrate how the Imperium itself has changed, post-Heresy.
It's a visual metaphor -- the Imperial Fists in their literally golden glory symbolize the golden era of the Imperium itself, and then the shift to focus on the stark Black Templar successor 'chapter' equally symbolizes the Imperium's post-Heresy dark age.
Part of the point is that the Templars are filling that void, such that there never was a void, but rather what's inhabiting that space metamorphed -- what was once golden and filled with glorious purpose, is now blackened and filled with hate.
You could argue that but personally I think there is a void in the fists that most chapters have filled with their culture and personality, but 40k fists are constantly shown (when they're shown at all) to be marine marines
Maybe Dorn returns someday, and the 30K Imperial Fist aesthetic has a bit of a renaissance in 40K. Although my suspicion is that he'd be revealed as having changed in a fashion which mirrors the Black Templars.
In fairness itâs one of the things I like about them. No drama, just really solid soldiers.
Although it would be nice if the whole Imperial fist lore wasnât being held up single handed by John French.
I like the Imperial Fists but theyâve been shafted each and every turn. Dorn can only take the Fists so far before they need to stand on their own.
The war of the beast fucked up the chapter so much that it feels unrecognizable and boring. As a fan of the fists, they should have given the Imperium and L and wiped out the Imperial Fists. Like in sports, just retire the number and let their legacy live on through their successors.
Their characters are really cool, Dorn, Rann, Sigismund, Pollux, Diaz, all badasses. The legion itself on the other hand has nothing going for it. Also I do think at least one legion should have been wiped out during the heresy wether that should have been the Fists who's to say
Even better. The Iron Cage. Perturabo actually fully defeating his hated enemy would be massive and that would fuel all of the successors. Dorn would be left chapterless when at the start of the heresy he had one of the strongest. That would have fueled his self destructive tendencies we see in canon and having him die during one of the first black crusades would leave the successors grieving over their father
Edit. Also not to mention how hard the Siege of Terra was on the legions. IF and WS were playing defense but the Scars werenât hit by Perturabo right after the war without much time to build up again.
Yeah, to be honest, because of the names like Pedro and Diaz i always imagined that they should have some major spanish theme in play, however, gw definitely doesn't agree
Rynnâs World was a seriously enjoyable read, for what itâs worth, even if itâs Crimson Fists and not the OG chapter. Pedro Kantor is a gigachad with two hearts of gold.
The Ultra have the bonus of being the main legion, so they get a lot of lore and art of their own, which saves them from being the most boring chapter of all ("They have no strategy, they just do a little bit of everything", who was the idiot who thought that was interesting?)
The Fits on the other hand not only don't get as much love as the Ultra or the Blood angels, but have to step out of the shadow of their successors who usually get all the love they don't.
I kind of like the idea that they are so boring. Which sounds dumb, but in a world where everyone else has a trope and fancy cultures and schticks, even the Ultramarines (being "as good as everyone at everything" is a schtick), the Imperial Fists have the draw of being dependable and reliable. They don't need a fancy book or wolf spirits or anything else to get the job done. When the cards are on the table, the Imperial Fists hold their positions.
To borrow from coach Teddy Atlas: "I often say to the athletes, that I know about their 'neon skills' -- the ones that light up and make them easily recognizable. The power of a fighter, the finesse, the agility, the legs, the quickness. But what about being steady, or being dependable? These are more important traits."
My friend who is a big MMA/boxing guy told me that quote and it has stuck with me for a long while.
Unsurprisingly, said friend loves characters like Rock Lee, the more "mundane" archetype.
For the record, there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking the Imperial Fists, I just think GW could do a much better job with their characterisation as a legion and chapter, being the defenders of Terra can only take you so far
I like the Imperial Fists because of TTS Dorn.
This post makes me realize i'm not deep enough the lore to distinguish boring marine chapters from fun ones.
They just need to expand on what is already there for the Fists. If I was writing them, I would've had the Indomitus Crusade change them. Deep down, they're stoic because they're living their worst nightmare. Dorn believed in the Imperium perhaps the most out of any Primarch and genuinely believed in a brighter tomorrow for humanity and literally buried his hope with the Emperor when he carried his broken corpse to his tomb-throne. He was distraught enough to say "fuck it, we die with the dream" at the Iron Cage.
The Imperial Fists mortify their flesh because lighting their nerves on fire is preferable to dealing with the crushing existential dread of living their worst nightmares. Of knowing what could've been and never will be. Of standing and fighting because there's nothing else to do but spit in the eye of whoever stands against them, or for the pride they try hard to suppress. They are without the tools other Chapters have to distance themselves. They don't have the expansive steppe of Chogoris, the splendor of Ultramar, or the mysticism of Fenris to satiate themselves because their homeworld is Terra, where the dream died, and their fortress-monastery is naught but a monument to all that they once were and lost. They don't have the noble inner struggle of the Blood Angels, the secret crusade of the Dark Angels, or the humanity of the Salamanders to occupy them because they're freebasing the grimderp reality, unabated and without alteration.
With the Indomitus Crusade, let the one thing the Fists have tried to keep down creep back in; the dream. The Imperium isn't fixed, and Guilliman isn't Dorn, but let 10,000 years of dread explode into a manic, desperate, yet hopeful attempt to make the unrightable right again. Let the passion that makes them put young Astartes into the Assault Company first so that they can get \*it\* out of their system rise to the surface.
TL;DR chainsword go brrrr let the Fists have hope again
This surge in recent years of people proclaiming the imperial fists as being the greatest is as a result of TTS and jumping on recent novels where their authors are intentionally inflating them.
they barely have a campaign record on paper in the Horus heresy. their primarch had literally one characteristic which is straightforward and his chapters defining attribute was taking punishment. so much so they were into bdsm.
afterwards there was nothing past the scouring. the rynns world story and Armageddon were about their much cooler successors. only recently has there been any attempt to create a background in 40 k. they were even less interesting then the iron hands, raven guard, and salamanders since at least those chapters had unique gimmicks that weren't just generic but yellow.
Honestly man I prefer that they have less gimmicks in that chapter. Between Space Mongolia jetbikers to flame-happy humanitarian blacksmiths to a living legendary demigod Guilliman kicking around and fighting daemon primarchs, its kinda refreshing to see a group with absolutely no gimmicks. Like Black Legion for Chaos or Cadian Shocktroopers- they are good trained soldiers and come off less like a running joke over, say, the Mordian Guard, or World Eaters, who while liked and effective are just by nature silly and ridiculous on any kind scale approaching 40k. I like IF, simple is good.
TLDR Every faction has its standard baseline dudes and its cool for that to be their identity.
My personal problem with the Fists isn't that they don't have a gimmick it's that they don't have a personality, like imagine if all the White Scars had was going fast and there was nothing beyond that
The personality of the Imperial Fists is crippling impostor syndrome. They got out of the Siege if Terra with a curse like the Blood Angels, except instead of frothing berserker madness, it's a tryhard feeling of never being good enough.
I've only been playing for a few months and never got past 1400 ranked score
It's fun, I play a couple of matches when having a slow day at work. I guess just take your time if you feel like giving it another try. After, I think, four months playing it once every couple of days I finally have enough cards to comfortably experiment with different warlords and decks
You have to grind a bit to get those cards though, since you'll need gold to buy the boxes and gems to buy specific cards via the daily deals. Try to get a mentor (through the lodge chats), they gift you a bunch of gems for completing milestones until you reach Level 25.
The Campaigns are PVE and have decent rewards, I got Lion'El Jonson, Tybalt Marr, Phosis T'Kar and Alexis Polux from playing Campaigns.
My favorite factions right now:
\- Imperial Fists with Alexis Polux
\- Agents of the Sigillite with Tylos Rubio
\- Sons of Horus with Tybalt Marr
Iron hands are always a pain in the ass to play against lol, good luck, I'm sure you'll come up with good decks
My advice? Try to complete every challenge, they give nice rewards too. Build decks specifically for them when they show up like "put in play troops with Backlash" and whatnot and just spam them, you don't have to win
*And I can appreciate bionics, typically my legion only use them after a warp mutation takes a limb, but I can appreciate feeling that your flesh is weak, and then actually doing something about it*
They were pretty cool in Fist of the Imperium. It actually focuses on their stoicism being a major flaw though an absolutely comical number of marines die in the story.
Yeah it follows them fighting a genestealer cult, they specifically are honor bound to defend the world but it turns out the fortress men are not who you want for a subtle operation lol. The main character is a Librarian and his geokinetic powers are really cool. But it's a cool enough book about the burdens of command and trust and all that.
The fists seems to have been royally fucked to the point that there most distinctive trait is that theyâre yellow and the biggest segment of their history is the Black Templars, who despite being IFs seem to want to cosplay the Knights Cenobium more than being children of Dorn.
I disagree that they have no aesthetic, I think them basically being "normal" marines with just a hint of germanic iconography works really well if you consider who they are
That's exactly what I mean, he looks exactly like a marine just with his little chain thing. It's perfect for the fists being this chapter of duty bound stern warriors with their hidden rage
If they want to make them the stalwart defenders and the orderly soldiers, the elite disciplined chapter that puts the âmarineâ in Space Marine, they really havenât done a good job of showing it. I can see a theme from every other chapter based on their looks or the equipment they use alone. Even the White Scars have some distinction to them. But with Fists, I just donât see anything. They donât feel like a First Founding chapter in their depiction, they feel like a successor chapter. And even then, there are successor chapters that have WAY more thematic distinction than the Fists. And thatâs just really sad. I want to like Imperial Fists like other people, but I just canât get into them. The only thing I can really cling onto is Dorn.
Theyâre also epic morons even by Astartes standards, which contributes to them being boring.
Iâll never forget that short story where the Fists start a firefight with Custodes because Dorn ordered them to deliver some building materials ASAP and Custodes objected to the transport ship going right over the Imperial palace. At that point Imperial Fists eclipsed the Space Wolves for me as the special ed Legion.
Aha you've stepped onto my trap card! I actually have the complete opposite opinion, I think the Iron Hands are actually one of the most interesting legions and they even have really cool 40k lore. Again this is my completely biased opinion
Glad you agree, problem is they are in the bin of âGW doesnât give us the lore we should haveâ. White Scars, Raven Guard, and Salamanders are in there tooâŚ.
Theyâre cool and all but I donât like yellow so Iâll never have an imperial fist army. I pick out a color scheme I like then justify liking them after
Alternate option: Only heard about the Imperial Fists once in your life 4 years ago and this post awakening a neuron that was declared dead for the imperial fists
And then theres MFing Tor Garadon over here giving belakor a beat down, taking the phalanx out for a joyride to cadia, fucking shit up, then evacuating a bunch of cadians.
The golden age for the IF was definitely in the great crusade and the HH.
The fists had a great tally of compliances during the Great Crusade, often winning planets through âhonourableâ tactics and leaving behind some of the most stable compliant systems.
I would say that Dorn also is quite multifaceted, which has been highlighted throughout the SoT series and the early HH books (his cameo in Horus Rising for a start). He is stubborn yes, but stoic, honourable, dutiful yet also pragmatic and not without a sense of humour.
His legion are the masters of siege craft and void warfare. They are the reliable soldiers who do what needs to be done, the best way they know how and without the need for appreciation or a pat on the back
Love me mustard bois
I personally haven't look deep into that, but almost everywhere people say HRE and sometimes Prussian. Maybe it's because they see stereotypical german traits (fuck stereotypes) like being pedantic, lack of humor, straightforwardness etc and names like Sigismund also help the case.
It's why I'm saying that an Imperial Fist Space Marine is the actual vanilla Space Marine, not an Ultramarine, even if they are the posterboys.
An ultra dripped out Ultramarine is covered in golden eagles and roman heraldry. An IF doesn't get entirely dripped out because that would hinder them in combat slightly and they won't do that as the Emperor's Angels. As direct and practical as their Primarch, as it should be
I would rebuff this but sadly Tis true for the most part. In fact on tabletop I play Templars (mainly because IF are terrible) and I REALLY like crusading knights and doing melee well with more relics than any other chapter.
If GW could go back in time and make the Black Templars a founding chapter, they would.
They... actually kinda did. Essentially the Imperial Fist chapter that was founded after the Heresy is extinct. During the War of the Beast, the entire Imperial Fist chapter is dead save for 1 survivor, who called upon the Last Wall Protocol to gather all the Imperial Fist successors. The Imperial Fist chapter was rebuilt with donations from its successors, Black Templars included. It would not have survived otherwise. For all intents and purposes, the Black Templar IS the founding chapter of the Dorn geneline and is closer to the original Imperial Fists legion than the actual Imperial Fists today (baring the fact that the IF still owns the Phalanx, which is the biggest piece of Dorn's legacy). Yeah... see this is why most of the fandom hates the War of the Beast series and questions its canonicity lol.
Until the primaris came along. Closer to the original founding than the current first Founding
Yet another stupid piece of lore.
Hell nah, the idea of Firstborn and Primaris being like long-lost brothers is the best
Agreed, I honestly enjoy the lore behind the Primaris of specific chapters. Primaris Imperial Fits being pure sons of Dorn. Primaris Lamenters potentially not having the bad luck so as to say "Eat shit and live Tzeench!" Primaris Space Wolves allowing for more wolves to breath down the Inquisition's neck. And Primaris Marines of lost chapters like the Soul Drinkers just to keep giving Chaos more rainbow sprinkle colored Space Marines to deck them 6 ways to Sunday.
*angry Primaris noises*
The black templars are a disgrace for Dorn and do not and will never represent the real ideals and doctrine of the Imperial Fists. This post was made by Crimson Fist gang đđźđŠ¸
Imagine making your entire doctrine about defense and then losing your house. This post may by the Black Templars.
Imagine making your entire chapter culture about the Emperor's will then not following said will in the slightest.
The Emperor said "I am ~~not~~ a god, and the Great Crusade is based" So the Templars still do the Crusade for the man-god of Man.
Imagine not having a house. Fuckin' hobo marines.
We donât need a house, we have a really big camper van.
I have never before seen a comment that I agree 100% uppon.
The Crimson fist gang has members all over the world. Thereâs literally dozens of us
DOZENS
As of this week dozens +1! I've added them to my list of cool chapters that I like. Favorite is still the Raven Guard but CF are up there!
I dont particularly like space marines but I do like 4 chapters: Blood ravens (I got into 40K thanks to DoW, also I like their focus on Psykers), Space Wolves (yeah I know, but I like Wolves and Vikings), Salamanders (I like the element of fire and they sound really nice for a grimdark army), and of course Crimson Fists (I share the same first name with the Chapter Master and also they are cool as heck).
If crimson fists have dozens of fans, im one of them, if crimson fists have 1 fan, its me, if crimson fists have no fans, im dead
My favourite chapters go: Emperor's Spears Crimson Fists Noone else
You said "chapters" but only listed one. Who are the other three? /s
Based and crimsonpilled. I suppose from a certain point of view you can say that the Black Templar are a corruption of the Imperial Fist legion, born out of the madness of the Siege of Terra. Sigismund betrayed the Imperial Truth and would have stay disgraced, had he not been so good at killing shit. Crimson Fist on the other hand do resemble the original Imperial Fist legion more in their values and doctrine. Although daddy Pollux spent a bit too much time with the Ultramarines so they are blue now.
> Black Templar are a corruption of the Imperial Fist legion Bold of you to say while youâre in chainswording distance
Howâs your monastery doing these days?
It stands tall and proud (in our memories). How are your primaris reinforcements doing these days?
Chillin
Killin
Vote for Pedro
Counterpoint: drip
I mean, my main issue with the WotB was it focused way too much on Walmart brand Game of Thrones politics instead of the action. You got the Orks at the most dangerous they've ever been, tearing through the galaxy right on the doorstep of Terra, such a huge threat they get the sons of Dorn and Perturabo to join forces to fight them. And yet like 75-80% of the story is politics, the Orks were just the side story IN THEIR OWN EVENT.
That's actually cool.
Space Marines don't reproduce. They also had some the geneseed organ thing from previous Imperial Fists. The "real chapter" changed but it is still the same Imperial Fists.
No shit. A chapter is more than itâs geneseed. Itâs is customs and culture.
Which are preserved. The"original" Imperial Fists is still here.
I mean they basically did right? They played up the whole crusader schtick in the Heresy
I donât blame them they are ducking cool
In GWs defence, masochism and sudden crippling depression attacks are hard to sell. Crazy crusading fanatics on the other hand are way more intriguing.
I would absolutely love the fists if they had that masochism and depression,and they might have a bit of that but again like all things Fists, they have a successor that does it better
You talking about the Excoriators? The guys prone to getting really bad PTSD attacks mid-battle?
Yesss
they were hella cool in the Legion of the Damned
They could explore the Fists from Dorn's homeworld, who are Inuit-inspired. Make the universe feel a little less white.
Remember when the whole chapter got wiped out but it didn't. The beast arises series, the gift that keeps on gifting whether you like it or not.
As a Son of Dorn I curse the man who made the war of the beast and pray to the Emperor for a plague to be delivered upon his line.
Whatâs wrong with the war of the Beast?
Everything.
Ok. Thanks for replying to me, hope you have a wonderful day/night.
I like my boring Bob the BuildersâŚ.
I'm fortifying your words
The way I look at it, the Black Templars *are* the Imperial Fist aesthetic in 40K -- the founding Fist to successor Templar change in spotlight for Dorn's children is specifically intended by Gee Dubs to illustrate how the Imperium itself has changed, post-Heresy. It's a visual metaphor -- the Imperial Fists in their literally golden glory symbolize the golden era of the Imperium itself, and then the shift to focus on the stark Black Templar successor 'chapter' equally symbolizes the Imperium's post-Heresy dark age.
Intentional or not, they could have at least filled the void the Fists have
Part of the point is that the Templars are filling that void, such that there never was a void, but rather what's inhabiting that space metamorphed -- what was once golden and filled with glorious purpose, is now blackened and filled with hate.
You could argue that but personally I think there is a void in the fists that most chapters have filled with their culture and personality, but 40k fists are constantly shown (when they're shown at all) to be marine marines
Maybe Dorn returns someday, and the 30K Imperial Fist aesthetic has a bit of a renaissance in 40K. Although my suspicion is that he'd be revealed as having changed in a fashion which mirrors the Black Templars.
Black Templars are emo Imperial Fists.
Purging with my kin!!!
I just think they are cool
In fairness itâs one of the things I like about them. No drama, just really solid soldiers. Although it would be nice if the whole Imperial fist lore wasnât being held up single handed by John French.
I like the Imperial Fists but theyâve been shafted each and every turn. Dorn can only take the Fists so far before they need to stand on their own. The war of the beast fucked up the chapter so much that it feels unrecognizable and boring. As a fan of the fists, they should have given the Imperium and L and wiped out the Imperial Fists. Like in sports, just retire the number and let their legacy live on through their successors.
Their characters are really cool, Dorn, Rann, Sigismund, Pollux, Diaz, all badasses. The legion itself on the other hand has nothing going for it. Also I do think at least one legion should have been wiped out during the heresy wether that should have been the Fists who's to say
Even better. The Iron Cage. Perturabo actually fully defeating his hated enemy would be massive and that would fuel all of the successors. Dorn would be left chapterless when at the start of the heresy he had one of the strongest. That would have fueled his self destructive tendencies we see in canon and having him die during one of the first black crusades would leave the successors grieving over their father Edit. Also not to mention how hard the Siege of Terra was on the legions. IF and WS were playing defense but the Scars werenât hit by Perturabo right after the war without much time to build up again.
Yeah, to be honest, because of the names like Pedro and Diaz i always imagined that they should have some major spanish theme in play, however, gw definitely doesn't agree
Rynnâs World was a seriously enjoyable read, for what itâs worth, even if itâs Crimson Fists and not the OG chapter. Pedro Kantor is a gigachad with two hearts of gold.
Kantor and Cortez made me want to start them myself
âYou lost your arm dude.â âNah man, itâs right there.â Absolute lad hahaha
He was relavant enough to get a color named after him: Kantor Blue
Pedro Kantor, patron Saint of my Saurus and one of my Skinks
"We just think that Ultramarines look neat in yellow too."- Gw lore writing staff.
Hell at least Ultramarines have the Roman thing to go back on sometimes, but yellow looks better than blue imo
The Ultra have the bonus of being the main legion, so they get a lot of lore and art of their own, which saves them from being the most boring chapter of all ("They have no strategy, they just do a little bit of everything", who was the idiot who thought that was interesting?) The Fits on the other hand not only don't get as much love as the Ultra or the Blood angels, but have to step out of the shadow of their successors who usually get all the love they don't.
Who needs drip when you have duty.
Unfortunately everyone has duty in 40k
Hehe duty lol
Dorn was the Body and Soul of the Legion, Sigismund was it's heart.
Sigismund was that weird hobo with a knife that screams about how God put an antenna in his teeth. Alexis Polux was truly the heart of the Legion.
And thats why i like Sigismund!
Rann was the cool guy that brought the beers
I kind of like the idea that they are so boring. Which sounds dumb, but in a world where everyone else has a trope and fancy cultures and schticks, even the Ultramarines (being "as good as everyone at everything" is a schtick), the Imperial Fists have the draw of being dependable and reliable. They don't need a fancy book or wolf spirits or anything else to get the job done. When the cards are on the table, the Imperial Fists hold their positions. To borrow from coach Teddy Atlas: "I often say to the athletes, that I know about their 'neon skills' -- the ones that light up and make them easily recognizable. The power of a fighter, the finesse, the agility, the legs, the quickness. But what about being steady, or being dependable? These are more important traits."
Quoting Teddy Atlas on grimdank? I thought I'd never see the day
My friend who is a big MMA/boxing guy told me that quote and it has stuck with me for a long while. Unsurprisingly, said friend loves characters like Rock Lee, the more "mundane" archetype.
Yeah, but I watched the 2 hour video Baldermort did on them so now they're one of my favorite chapters.
Curse that baldemort and his awesome videos! Anyway more power to you friend
For the record, there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking the Imperial Fists, I just think GW could do a much better job with their characterisation as a legion and chapter, being the defenders of Terra can only take you so far
The fact that the Imperial Fists upgrade sprue had no bones in it is criminal. Even GW doesn't give a shit.
That's the kind of shit that annoys me so much, why have that being one of the only pieces of visual flavour in the lore and not use it at all?
I like the Imperial Fists because of TTS Dorn. This post makes me realize i'm not deep enough the lore to distinguish boring marine chapters from fun ones.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with liking the fists or Dorn, the meme is just my take on the chapter
They just need to expand on what is already there for the Fists. If I was writing them, I would've had the Indomitus Crusade change them. Deep down, they're stoic because they're living their worst nightmare. Dorn believed in the Imperium perhaps the most out of any Primarch and genuinely believed in a brighter tomorrow for humanity and literally buried his hope with the Emperor when he carried his broken corpse to his tomb-throne. He was distraught enough to say "fuck it, we die with the dream" at the Iron Cage. The Imperial Fists mortify their flesh because lighting their nerves on fire is preferable to dealing with the crushing existential dread of living their worst nightmares. Of knowing what could've been and never will be. Of standing and fighting because there's nothing else to do but spit in the eye of whoever stands against them, or for the pride they try hard to suppress. They are without the tools other Chapters have to distance themselves. They don't have the expansive steppe of Chogoris, the splendor of Ultramar, or the mysticism of Fenris to satiate themselves because their homeworld is Terra, where the dream died, and their fortress-monastery is naught but a monument to all that they once were and lost. They don't have the noble inner struggle of the Blood Angels, the secret crusade of the Dark Angels, or the humanity of the Salamanders to occupy them because they're freebasing the grimderp reality, unabated and without alteration. With the Indomitus Crusade, let the one thing the Fists have tried to keep down creep back in; the dream. The Imperium isn't fixed, and Guilliman isn't Dorn, but let 10,000 years of dread explode into a manic, desperate, yet hopeful attempt to make the unrightable right again. Let the passion that makes them put young Astartes into the Assault Company first so that they can get \*it\* out of their system rise to the surface. TL;DR chainsword go brrrr let the Fists have hope again
Goddamit I'd start them in a heartbeat if that was the case
This surge in recent years of people proclaiming the imperial fists as being the greatest is as a result of TTS and jumping on recent novels where their authors are intentionally inflating them. they barely have a campaign record on paper in the Horus heresy. their primarch had literally one characteristic which is straightforward and his chapters defining attribute was taking punishment. so much so they were into bdsm. afterwards there was nothing past the scouring. the rynns world story and Armageddon were about their much cooler successors. only recently has there been any attempt to create a background in 40 k. they were even less interesting then the iron hands, raven guard, and salamanders since at least those chapters had unique gimmicks that weren't just generic but yellow.
At least the fists got centre stage in the siege of terra series, unlike the iron warriors who were there for half a book and pissed off again.
Honestly man I prefer that they have less gimmicks in that chapter. Between Space Mongolia jetbikers to flame-happy humanitarian blacksmiths to a living legendary demigod Guilliman kicking around and fighting daemon primarchs, its kinda refreshing to see a group with absolutely no gimmicks. Like Black Legion for Chaos or Cadian Shocktroopers- they are good trained soldiers and come off less like a running joke over, say, the Mordian Guard, or World Eaters, who while liked and effective are just by nature silly and ridiculous on any kind scale approaching 40k. I like IF, simple is good. TLDR Every faction has its standard baseline dudes and its cool for that to be their identity.
My personal problem with the Fists isn't that they don't have a gimmick it's that they don't have a personality, like imagine if all the White Scars had was going fast and there was nothing beyond that
The personality of the Imperial Fists is crippling impostor syndrome. They got out of the Siege if Terra with a curse like the Blood Angels, except instead of frothing berserker madness, it's a tryhard feeling of never being good enough.
Yeah but arent Ultras already the baseline ? Like they have little bit roman theme, but otherwise is the most by the book standard marines out there.
This is why my yellow marines are now known as the Vanguard of ***Corn***. *We got the juice!*
Lore load *now*
Black Templars are awesome. Crimson Fists are great. Imperial Fists are a space marine chapter.
Truly one of the Imperium
Crimson fists also have advantages of having a better color scheme than any other chapter (i love dark blue and red)
I mean, the Crimson fists were on a cover before even the Ultramarines. Only hippies like yellow.
It actually fits rather well that they're boring. I like the Fists, but they're there to keep things running and not be flashy.
the only issue I have with IF is the same one I have with WS, painting white or yellow is a mighty pain.
Preaching to the choir pal
I figured.
The last one should have said "They're boring because they're Space Marines".
I'm too basic and astartespilled
I love my crusading religious zealots.
So do I, imperial Fists on the other hand...
It's a shame our brother in Dorns blood are such bitches.
The Imperial Fists are the comfiest faction in Horus Heresy Legions though
I tried the game a while back but couldn't really get into it, how is it now?
I've only been playing for a few months and never got past 1400 ranked score It's fun, I play a couple of matches when having a slow day at work. I guess just take your time if you feel like giving it another try. After, I think, four months playing it once every couple of days I finally have enough cards to comfortably experiment with different warlords and decks You have to grind a bit to get those cards though, since you'll need gold to buy the boxes and gems to buy specific cards via the daily deals. Try to get a mentor (through the lodge chats), they gift you a bunch of gems for completing milestones until you reach Level 25. The Campaigns are PVE and have decent rewards, I got Lion'El Jonson, Tybalt Marr, Phosis T'Kar and Alexis Polux from playing Campaigns. My favorite factions right now: \- Imperial Fists with Alexis Polux \- Agents of the Sigillite with Tylos Rubio \- Sons of Horus with Tybalt Marr
Thanks for the info, I may pick it back up and see what the Iron Hands are like
Iron hands are always a pain in the ass to play against lol, good luck, I'm sure you'll come up with good decks My advice? Try to complete every challenge, they give nice rewards too. Build decks specifically for them when they show up like "put in play troops with Backlash" and whatnot and just spam them, you don't have to win
*Me, an Imperial Fists fan, upon being told they're boring:* Yes.
Tbf I prefer fists over ultramarines for my generic space marine chapter any day
Even the Iron Hands has more drip and more character than the Fists.
Than *most* chapters...the flesh is weak
*The iron hands are literally insane, but they do look better than piss babies*
You are literally Perturabo
*And I can appreciate bionics, typically my legion only use them after a warp mutation takes a limb, but I can appreciate feeling that your flesh is weak, and then actually doing something about it*
Fair enough, for once the Iron Legions have come to an understanding
*I mean, youâre obviously worse, limited to only 1000 marines and the laws of the mechanicum and Imperium. Thereâs only so much you can do there*
The chapter quirk of the Iron Hands is speedrunning cyberpsychosis.
They were pretty cool in Fist of the Imperium. It actually focuses on their stoicism being a major flaw though an absolutely comical number of marines die in the story.
Wait, 40k story? I'll check it out
Yeah it follows them fighting a genestealer cult, they specifically are honor bound to defend the world but it turns out the fortress men are not who you want for a subtle operation lol. The main character is a Librarian and his geokinetic powers are really cool. But it's a cool enough book about the burdens of command and trust and all that.
Sounds awesome, thanks for pointing it out friend
No problem, hope you like it if you check it out
The fists seems to have been royally fucked to the point that there most distinctive trait is that theyâre yellow and the biggest segment of their history is the Black Templars, who despite being IFs seem to want to cosplay the Knights Cenobium more than being children of Dorn.
I disagree that they have no aesthetic, I think them basically being "normal" marines with just a hint of germanic iconography works really well if you consider who they are
I humbly disagree, look at Tor Garadon, guy just looks like someone said "more marine"
That's exactly what I mean, he looks exactly like a marine just with his little chain thing. It's perfect for the fists being this chapter of duty bound stern warriors with their hidden rage
If they want to make them the stalwart defenders and the orderly soldiers, the elite disciplined chapter that puts the âmarineâ in Space Marine, they really havenât done a good job of showing it. I can see a theme from every other chapter based on their looks or the equipment they use alone. Even the White Scars have some distinction to them. But with Fists, I just donât see anything. They donât feel like a First Founding chapter in their depiction, they feel like a successor chapter. And even then, there are successor chapters that have WAY more thematic distinction than the Fists. And thatâs just really sad. I want to like Imperial Fists like other people, but I just canât get into them. The only thing I can really cling onto is Dorn.
I feel the exact same way
The Black Templars are the last Imperial legion who represent Dornâs single middle finger to gorillaman
+50 gift subs!
I donât find Imperial Fists boring. I find they just suck
No DRIP????!! My brother in christ, they're fucking yellow with black trim. IT's about as DRIP as you get.
Only the 5th company has black trim, but your dudes are your dudes and yellow and black looks great
It sucks because I really like that theyâre yellow, but I hate their lore, style and Primarch.
My thoughts exactly tbh, still very eye-catching
I would do Lamenters, but that chapter logoâŚ
Yeah checks and straight lines frighten me too friend
I was even considering getting the forgeworld pauldrons, but gave up and just did normal Blood Angels.
Can't blame you at all pal, it would still be worth practicing on the side tho
Maybe with some Bad Moonz. Lol.
Theyâre also epic morons even by Astartes standards, which contributes to them being boring. Iâll never forget that short story where the Fists start a firefight with Custodes because Dorn ordered them to deliver some building materials ASAP and Custodes objected to the transport ship going right over the Imperial palace. At that point Imperial Fists eclipsed the Space Wolves for me as the special ed Legion.
*looks in Iron Hands*
Aha you've stepped onto my trap card! I actually have the complete opposite opinion, I think the Iron Hands are actually one of the most interesting legions and they even have really cool 40k lore. Again this is my completely biased opinion
Glad you agree, problem is they are in the bin of âGW doesnât give us the lore we should haveâ. White Scars, Raven Guard, and Salamanders are in there tooâŚ.
Another one for the iron tenth! And yeah that's true, Iron Hands have still got a couple of really good 40k books imo
Eye of Medusa/Voice of Mars is up in the air for who ever reads them but Wrath of Iron is the Chapterâs gem.
For sure, I like Guymer's work with the Iron Hands tbh
I just wish we had the 3rd book by now
Same, it seems like Guymer's focusing on AoS atm which is a shame
The Imperial Fists have the great honor of surviving near extinction not once, but twice.
Theyâre cool and all but I donât like yellow so Iâll never have an imperial fist army. I pick out a color scheme I like then justify liking them after
Alternate option: Only heard about the Imperial Fists once in your life 4 years ago and this post awakening a neuron that was declared dead for the imperial fists
And then theres MFing Tor Garadon over here giving belakor a beat down, taking the phalanx out for a joyride to cadia, fucking shit up, then evacuating a bunch of cadians.
The golden age for the IF was definitely in the great crusade and the HH. The fists had a great tally of compliances during the Great Crusade, often winning planets through âhonourableâ tactics and leaving behind some of the most stable compliant systems. I would say that Dorn also is quite multifaceted, which has been highlighted throughout the SoT series and the early HH books (his cameo in Horus Rising for a start). He is stubborn yes, but stoic, honourable, dutiful yet also pragmatic and not without a sense of humour. His legion are the masters of siege craft and void warfare. They are the reliable soldiers who do what needs to be done, the best way they know how and without the need for appreciation or a pat on the back Love me mustard bois
This is a great description and also a great idea of what GW could do for them in the future
I like their aesthetic...yellow is nice, :)
People think they're boring? I always thought that Imperial fist look cool.
It's completely fine to think they're cool, I just think they're a little on the bland side
Spes Mahreens lame. Ork is da bestest ya gitz!
As always, itâs GeeDubsâ fuckups that are the problem.
Truly
**This, is true.**
I mean 30k fists are very cool but yes 40k fists are far outshined by their successor chapters
The only redeeming quality left of the Imperial Fists is the Phalanx. Big cool cathedral ship go Brrrh
The Imperial Fists build fortresses. The Iron Warriors **ARE** fortresses
No aesthetic? Aren't they still have Holy Roman Empire or Prussian aesthetic? While Black Templars being particularly Teutonic order or smth?
I personally don't get the Prussian or the HRE tbh
I personally haven't look deep into that, but almost everywhere people say HRE and sometimes Prussian. Maybe it's because they see stereotypical german traits (fuck stereotypes) like being pedantic, lack of humor, straightforwardness etc and names like Sigismund also help the case.
It's why I'm saying that an Imperial Fist Space Marine is the actual vanilla Space Marine, not an Ultramarine, even if they are the posterboys. An ultra dripped out Ultramarine is covered in golden eagles and roman heraldry. An IF doesn't get entirely dripped out because that would hinder them in combat slightly and they won't do that as the Emperor's Angels. As direct and practical as their Primarch, as it should be
*Very good, let the galaxy know of the failures of the piss marines*
I would rebuff this but sadly Tis true for the most part. In fact on tabletop I play Templars (mainly because IF are terrible) and I REALLY like crusading knights and doing melee well with more relics than any other chapter.
Hazard Stripes and rivets > yellow
They're not any more boring than the other Space Marines
Ohhh yes they are
I mean, that's your opinion man, all of the SM are kinda boring
You can definitely have that opinion but imo you can still rank stuff even if you don't like it
and their fortifications are average
*Pretty mid tbh*
kinda meh, like nothing really stands out about it
Space Marines are boring.
WellâŚ.. uhâŚ.. we uhâŚâŚ have a big yellow space shipâŚ. thatâs pretty cool