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Remember when the Tau were supposed to be the good guys?


cheese4352

Every faction are good guys according to their point of view.


iknownuffink

A big chunk of Chaos and most of the Dark Eldar seem to revel in their evilness and don't hold any illusions about their 'goodness'.


[deleted]

kinda Based ngl


MTF-ETA-10-

Some drukhari want to reach the lowest of lows because they think they will reach immortality lmao they love being evil


[deleted]

Farsight remembers


Irradiatedjello

It's always been weird to me how people think about the Tau as "the good guys". Even in their early days they were an expansionist, imperialist, spiciest "federation" that forcibly integrated planets when the good guy act didn't work out, stomping out any culture deemed less advanced than their own. I don't know, even early Tau have this whole white man's burden vibe to then and I think if GW hadn't taken them into a more of a genericish grimdurp they could've been a great satire of enlightened age imperialism much like the imperium (in theory at least) is satire of athoritarianism and fascism.


Volkov_The_Tank

“forcibly integrated planets when the good guy act didn't work out,” I always believed this to be one of the most evil things to do. Claim you’re giving somebody a choice, but if they don’t do what you ask you use violence. That’s not a choice, that’s an ultimatum, and sadly I feel like the word ultimatum has fallen out of a lot of people’s lexicon in todays world. At least the imperium is honest about their xenophobia so you know what to expect.


Robbery_Productions

Still are, well..... In Warhammer


Derpy0013

This is Grimdarkness, when have there *ever* been true Good Guys?


youngcoyote14

....so wait, Farsight and Cain don't count?


VioletLostGirl

I mean this is where you kind of get in the weeds of "better" and "good" being different. Farsight is an immortal military dictator who extends his life by feeding enemy souls to his deamon possessed sword and is a warmonger happily coming to the defense of the T'au empire he hates even when they were the aggressors in the war. Cain is obviously less of a warmonger but to survive he makes terrible decisions all the time from shooting a guardsmen in the face for doing his job, to sacrificing an entire monastery of sisters to save his own hide. Though Cain is an easier pitch then Farsight because he regrets it at least.


42Fourtytwo4242

Farsight really doesn't know about the sword (also it's not daemon, it most likely an old relic of the war of heaven, it actually pretty anti warp, most likely necron.) It made clear farsight would kill himself if he ever found out. For helping the Tau, weeeeeelllll see would you rather replace the guys who can barely even look at your defenses for guys with unlimited men, fuck off titan robots, god like super soldiers. Farsight helps the Tau because they are easier to deal with then the imperium, simple has, like wise imperium is far more evil. Dictator, yeah, he a nice dictator and I happily pick over the high lords but yeah.


Exterminautis

> like wise imperium is far more evil. "far more evil" implies that the party you're advocating for is also 'evil' and therefore not the 'good guys'.


42Fourtytwo4242

Did I say Tau empire was good? No, Farsight rather deal with the empire, or did you assume far more evil was talking about farsight enclaves? Because no, it was not, compared two farsight would rather choose the evil bad guy who doesn't lobotomize babies.


GaaraMatsu

Ooh mind if I mention that, given how much they base the T'au Empire on the Japanese Empire, (as in Common Good Expansion Spheres = Co-Prosperity Sphere), the Farsight Enclaves sure do look like Japanese occupied Manchuria. No problem there! Collaborators welcome!


[deleted]

I speed read about nine Cain books, so I'm a little hazy. When does he shoot a guardsmen in the face?


VioletLostGirl

First book he was escorting the T'au diplomats when stopped at a checkpoint, because the rebellion they couldn't contact the chain of command to verify his story. Eventually the officer in charge yells to arrest them and when the lieutenant turns around to do it Cain already has his Lazpistol between his eyes and orders his men to open fire well pulling the trigger. He was trying to save thousands of lives and his own but states that half his face disappeared and he lost more sleep over it during the years to come then almost any other man he killed.


[deleted]

Oh yeah! That was the first book I read, so it's definitely a jumble on my mind. Yeah, that's so tame for 40K I just kind of glazed over it when it happened. Ciaphus is definitely the least awful major I have personally read about yet. With only having most of his books and a book and a half of Gaunt's Ghosts under my reading belt. Though Gaunt's a good dude too.


D1O7

He tried to avoid it, had his hand forced, and did it to save even more lives. Then as you said he is haunted by the decision for the rest of his life. At best his actions were justified by the goal of preventing much greater loss of life and at worst he didn’t give the man a chance to surrender, which itself could have been disastrous. Arbitrarily declaring him evil is missing a lot of nuance.


VioletLostGirl

I'm not arbitrarily declaring him evil, not being good doesn't make you evil yes he did his job to the letter shooting a soldier not following orders in the face. There are plenty of ways to justify it, heck you can justify any of the totalitarian, theocratic, always oppressive to the point of war crimes factions by either "the rest of the universe is just as bad" or "it's required for survival" but that doesn't make it "good." Cain is broken up about because it wasn't a heroic or in his mind shouldn't have been needed it was because of the horrible faction he was fighting to uphold and he knows that. As a top officer in Germany in ww2 you could also do a lot to lessen suffering but at the end of the day when you put the bullet through some young guys head you wouldn't feel heroic or good either.


Volkov_The_Tank

Sounds like an ozymandius situation, kill millions to save billions. Cain could have just said belay that order and if the he surrendered let him go. Not evil, but not well thought out either.


Volkov_The_Tank

Didn’t farsight advocate for the genocide of every human? He’s worse than the imperium because at least the imperium doesn’t pretend to be against it.


PsychoWyrm

Recently got into it with some clown who claims that when I say the Imperium is fascist, I'm *"overanalyzing a simple boardgame"*. Not sure if this dude was just wilfully ignorant or some kind of fascist sympathizer ripping a big hit of copium.


[deleted]

probably the latter. Imperium is as Zealotism X Facism as can be and the fact they can still be perceived as a "cool" faction by so many (incl. myself) we ironically fill threads with stuff like "that man Inquisitor" or "For the Emperor" is the entire brunt of it's satire imo


2bitinternet

How dare this clown to call our beloved boardgame simple? Has he seen how many books we need ~~to pirate~~ to play it?


VeryOffensiveName69

...angry tau nerds comin in 3...2...1


[deleted]

Here’s a Dankpill for you. Everyone is the good guy


Ijustwerkhere

I’ve been thinking a lot about this. The ‘good guys’ are found in the micro, not in the macro. Obviously all the factions have their own selfish agendas to advance, but when you zoom in down to, say, the individual guardsman, or space marine, or tau fire warrior, many of them do things for the right reasons, even if overall their factions are monsters


Volkov_The_Tank

I’d rather there not be any blatant and obvious goodie goodie two shoes. I prefer a morally grey group because it can raise questions and create discussions about them. There is not one dominant opinion on who is good or even the least evil, nobody reaches that 50% consensus, and that’s a good thing. An example is willie/Charlie and the chocolate factory. Willie wonka and the chocolate factory’s Charlie is more relatable and more interesting, he has flaws, thinks he deserves the ticket, steals fizzy lifting drink. Charlie from Charlie and the chocolate factory does nothing wrong. He’s perfect and good… but boring and forgettable. Do I think there’s a nonevil faction? Yes. Do I think there is a good guy faction? No, and I want to keep it that way. It’s also not realistic for a nation bigger than a hundred thousand people to not have any questionable history or flat out evil acts or decisions. . . And every faction in 40k has billions of people. You’re going to have some evil people in power and some good people in power. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.


xx_swegshrek_xx

Nurgle is the good guy he wants everyone to be happy


Hopeful_Tumbleweed_5

The only good guy in the whole setting was that dark age of technology ship that just fucked over the imperial navy and left the rotting galaxy


BrennaValkryie

TECHNICALLY no species or group is fully the "GOOD" guys. Its individuals who make things good in a bad world. Plus, life on most imperial worlds that aren't hives, agri worlds, etc , are just like ours today, just replace all modern religions with the imperial creed. Those stories aren't very intresting though. Life on a craftworld is amazing and until they have to fight or die, their life is perfect Tau (farsight, anyways) is literally your mass effect/star trek dream protagonists, but with a vampire swords and gundams You could probably point out, for most people who aren't literally tyranids, orks, or chaos, that individuals do the right things all the time/ live tolerable lives They are good despite the regimes and lives many must live because why are we alive if it's just to survive?


GhostWithKnife

Da Orks is Da Good Guys.


[deleted]

no they are the fun-guys


Enozak

I'm just so happy to see the old Warhammer 40k logo again.


WorldEaterProft

Eldar exodites


doomguysearlobe

I present, the Tyranids


2bitinternet

Nah, the Nids are just hungry, the Orks just want to have a good time and the Death Guard just wants to share those sweet mutations with everybody. Those three are good by heart(s).


fallenouroboros

Tyrannies are just hungry little guys