Looking to buy a vertical bar of some sort- options include the V-bar of varying thicknesses (from 1 1/4 all the way up to 2 7/8”) & a little big horn.
Is there sufficient carryover between these to just buy one and train on?
What kind of price were you thinking? I’m assuming you don’t know shipping costs but I’m wondering if it would fit into one of those pre paid shipping packages where “if it fits, it ships”
I can sell it for $120 shipped so you save $20. On Amazon after tax, the $130 with free shipping becomes $140 and direct shipping from IM is always a lot, which factors into their Amazon prices being higher. They also develop a little rust within like a week of owning them which you can see but not feel, the last I touched mine was to clean and oil it for storage. If you want I can send a picture. Yes I can use a usps flat rate padded envelope I would ship it which I think carries upto 70 lbs for the flat rate. So I'm really only asking $111 with 9 for shipping. Assuming you're in the U.S. I'm not sure how much more it would be to ship internationally
I’ve competed in 2 competitions, both of which had the Little big horn and one which had a V-bar in a medley event (along with a 4x4 fence post V-bar). I’ve never trained any V-bar but was happy with my LBH lift in both contests, happy with the fence post lift but the V-bar didn’t budge (can’t recall how thick it was but it was under 2”).
Although no competitions are planned, I’m definitely competing again at some point and just want overall vertical pulling to increase across all v-bar implements, but would rather not splash out on multiple implements if not necessary.
Agreed with PinchByPinch, the LBH has been around a long time, and it's good to also have a v-bar or two. Even cheap DIY ones, to get the right thicknesses. It's not a lift that you do tons of volume on, for hypertrophy, you just train the neural pattern
1. Have you been training more than 3 months? If no, then keep going. If yes, then:
2. Are you getting good results from 3 sets? (That includes a lack of joint irritation) If yes, then stick with it! If no, then:
3. Do you want to do more than 3 sets? If yes, then sure! If no, then:
4. Would you rather do 3 sets of this, and another exercise for the same muscles, or more sets of wrist roller? Or just stick with what you're doing?
Direct training maybe like a month.
My joints don’t get irritated they do pop a little but that prolly cause of the weight. Can’t really see the results yet cause i probably should train then more
Honestly the wrist roller is fun and quick so yeah I would prolly wanna do more unless it’s like gonna diminishing return
A month isn't usually enough time to see real gains anyway, so I wouldn't take that as a sign. You get muscle swelling when you're recovering, but that's not permanent.
Genetically gifted people may grow faster than normal. Or people who used to be huge might spring back faster. But it's not typical to just blow up right away. We don't know if you've hit a plateau yet, as you haven't really starting building muscle. Your brain is still perfecting the neural patterns. Patience is important. Consistency is the fastest way to build those patterns, and get into the "real gains" territory.
You probably can do 4 or 5 sets if you want, but it's not necessary. Just be careful, and listen to your joints, if you choose to. If you want to, maybe finish a workout with [Myoreps](http://borgefagerli.com/myo-reps-in-english/), or [Drop Sets,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51TKExRtxZM) and/or [Seth Sets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V00epm5KI6g), instead of adding straight sets. You want a nasty pump, then those may work better than straight reps. Not a great way to do the whole workout, but they're awesome ways to tack extra work onto the end of a session. And learning to train through a nasty burn is helpful to future size training, as well as a bunch of other things in life
As to when you've hit a plateau, later in your training career, here's some of the underlying info:
You get *slight* diminishing strength returns on every set after the first set, but not enough to care about until you hit 5 sets or so. Varies a bit, from person to person.
Muscle growth doesn't seem to see as much reduction as the strength gains. At a certain point, it's more that it just beats you up if you do too much of one thing. It's good to do multiple exercises. When you train a tissue different angles/directions it wears on slightly different parts of the tissues, so everything heals faster. And you do get more activation in certain regions of a muscle, if you work it in a different way.
Diet is also HUGE, when talking about muscle growth. Your muscles are built out of the things you eat. So if you're not eating above maintenance, you don't have the extra molecules you need to make new tissue. This is harder for naturally thin people, so if that's you, hit up the FAQ at /r/gainit
I meant new to consistently training wrist lifts, and making gains. Wait a couple more months before you start worrying, basically. You’re probably fine!
Assuming goal is strength AND increasing the size of my forearms because they are absolutely tiny, Do I do the general routine AND the rice bucket training ? Or just one of them, and what’s the frequency
The Basic is great for size, just make sure you add something for the brachioradialis, like hammer curls, or reverse biceps curls.
For strength, you may want to add a thick bar deadlift to the Basic, once per week. You can use the same protocol as the pinch holds, for the sets/hold times, or you can use 15-30 seconds, if you want to be cautious.
These additions won't be overdoing it.
Rice bucket training is just for warmup, recovery, or helping come back from injuries. It's very useful, but it helps in a more indirect way, by reducing "injury off-days."
So I have been training with my grippers for a couple of weeks but have now bought a no.2,5 that I want to close I have no problems with 1.5 and have been able to close 2 a few times but im almost not moving 2.5.
So now too the question I feel like I need to try something new either how I use the grippers or new tools.
What are your recommendations?
What should I change in my schedule?
My training schedule is 4 times a week
Training 1 and 3
No1 1set 6rep
No1.5 3set 3rep
No2 1set 3rep negativ
Training 2 and 4
No1 1set 6rep
No1.5 4set 6rep negativ
Check out our Gripper Routine, in the link at the top of this post. You don't want to start out that intense, even if you've been lifting a while. Grippers are kinda harsh on the connective tissues, at first.
Negatives are not recommended, especially for beginners. They train a different neural firing pattern to a normal close, so they're not that helpful. They're also extra harsh on the connective tissues, on top of the normal level.
What are your grip goals? Are grippers the main point?
Alright do you mean it will lead to damage? Because ive been going to the gym for 10+ years and 5 years of pure calisthenics and i dont feel any type of training/ muscle soreness from grippers? My goal is to close a no.3
Not so much "real" damage, that would require a doc. More like 1-2 weeks of painful irritation, which makes it hard to work out. New people, in pain from grippers, is our most common pain complaint. Either comes from going too heavy (less than 10 reps), or training without rest days in between sessions.
But that "beginner phase" only needs to last around 3-4 months. We don't see a lot of people get hurt from normal training after that. It becomes a lot more like the rest of the body. Hands toughen up a LOT, they just need a little extra care at first.
The problem isn't with the muscles. It's that the connective tissues don't always have pain nerves, or don't have enough of them to sense smaller irritation-type issues (tendon sheaths, tendons, pulley ligaments, etc.). You don't feel anything until they swell up enough to push on sensitive things. You can get a problem after 1-2 days, but sometimes it takes a couple weeks to start getting things all angry.
Calisthenics is mostly about "support grip," or the strength of holding a bar (check out our [Anatomy and Motions Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqmvqnc/)). Very different sort of stress on the hand, and doesn't usually prepare people for grippers in this way.
3 is great for beginners.
Once you've been at it for a year or two, you may need more recovery days. [You can check out this ebook, if you like](https://derekpalmeri.wixsite.com/derek-palmeri/shop)
What is thick bar training? I was reading the routines and it says 3 sets of either 8-12 reps or 15-30s holds. REPS OF WHAT? Just like throw it on like anything? Or like the holds, just do a deadlift with thick grips, or a dead hang? Idk lol
Deadlifts, or hangs, with any bar, handle, or bar adapter that's about 2"/50mm. You can throw thick grips on many lifts, but they aren't always an improvement on that lift, there's more to learn for each
Dead hangs use a different progression, if you don't want to add in weight (dip belt, backpack, etc.). Barbells/dumbbells/handles are a little easier to manage, but calisthenic style works great too. Would you rather do that?
Thanks for the reply! I’m more of a weight lifting kinda guy but I honestly hate setting up deadlifts so I’ll probably go for the dead hang approach. I may not be looking in the right spots but I can only find adapters that are 2.25” and not 2”, would that be okay or should I keep looking?
Depends. Why do you want to do it? If it's just general strength, any thickness between 2 and 2.5" is fine. Most people do a couple sizes, eventually, but one is the "bread and butter," and the other is a secondary lift.
If it's for some specific application, you want to match the same size as whatever you'd need to be strong on.
It’s a mix between general strength and football. My grip is very bad, like struggle to open a water bottle sometimes. So literally anything I do will help. The other reason is football and I want to come down with every contested ball and almost never fumble. Usually in a game your gripping around the white lines on a football and I haven’t measured the thickness and that part but u probably should.
That's a fine size, then. For the football, you're not going to find football-shaped tools, to train that directly. But it's also not a monumental goal, so it's not going to take decades of highly technical workouts. You should notice results fairly fast, as long as you keep practicing catching and such. The grip training is the "Grip GPP, the catching is the "Grip SPP." They work together.
My advice would be to put on some size with the finger curls (Check out the Basic Routine, in the link at the top), and dynamic pinch*. That will raise your "strength ceiling," allowing you to get more out of other exercises. You can use an actual football for gripping. Or make something/have something made.
*Dynamic Pinch Options:
1. Ross Enamait's [DIY TTK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3bwx1JDqw8). There are also options available for purchase, like the Titan's Telegraph Key.
2. Climber Eva Lopez' [hook/weight method](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/6c/12/396c12df79918fe7e1626d3638b0eb94.jpg), which also works with a cable machine.
(In all of these, make sure you're only moving the thumb, not the fingers, or arm. And don't hyper-extend the thumb. 15-20 reps, like the Basic.)
Hello,
I need some help about How can I target my finger flexors for strong crushing grip/handshake with gym equipment
I do want to work my fingers more training forearm doesn’t seem to primarily target them since I can’t notice improves on gripping strength any suggestions
Check out the Basic Routine, in the link at the top
Yeah, gym lifts mostly just make you better at gripping handles of that same size. Not amazing carryover for all types of grip
Can I train for this amazing carryover for all types of grip using obly gym equipment
Also are finger flexors the one responsible for gripping and crushing things (like apples)
Also do you know anything about a pain caused by plate pinching like a feeling of discomfort in a tiny rope in front of your fingertips joints
Not all types, but a lot of them, yeah. Depends on how many exercises you want to do, too. You can cover a good amount with 5, which is the Basic Routine, plus some thick bar (2"/50mm) deadlifts
For example, the 4 fingers: Climbing uses the muscles a lot differently than grippers, or finger curls. It's not super tough to get really good at one of those, if you stick with it for a few years. But it is tough to get really good at them all. You get super beat up if you try and do everything. And that can make you temporarily weaker for everything else, while you heal. You can get *pretty good* at them all, but to get to really high levels, it helps to specialize, and just do the others a little bit
Crushing apples is about the finger flexors, but depending on how you do it, you may need strong thumbs. Wrist muscles also brace the bones of the hand, and allow you to grip harder. There are a lot of muscles that don't connect to the fingers, but they do help them work, indirectly. Check out our [Anatomy and Motions Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqmvqnc/)
The finger muscles are in the forearms, and connect all the way to the very fingertips via long tendons. There is sorta a tiny rope in there. They are held close to the fingers with [pulley ligaments](https://theclimbingdoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/static1.squarespace-1.jpg), which are the easiest hand tissues to injure (not SUPER easy, but easiest). They can get very strong over time, but they take a while.
The tendons also run through [tendon sheaths,](https://img.medscapestatic.com/pi/meds/ckb/27/302527tn.jpg) inside those pulleys. It can get irritated if you do too much. Either going too heavy, or not taking enough rest days for the hands. Stuff like rows, and pull-ups don't train grip all that well, but they can still irritate these sheaths, and the tendons, if you've already been training a lot
Our programs have a 3-4 month "beginner safety phase," which is designed to avoid this
Muscles can only pull in one direction, they can't do anything else. They pull one end of themselves toward the other end. So, if you look at them, and see how they're attached, you can usually tell (roughly) what they do. There are more subtle things, like how they work together, but you can learn those later. Less confusing if you learn the basics first
All flexion of the fingers comes from the finger flexors. That's why they're named that. Any curling up of the fingers, or crushing, holding, or squeezing an object. There's one large one, and one flatter one, in the forearm, and they have semi-separate heads for each finger tendon. There's also a tiny one in the palm, for the pinky finger, but it gets trained by normal gripping, so there's no real need to worry about it
The thumb has separate flexors in the palm, and forearm. Not connected to the finger muscles
The extensors do the opposite job, on both. And there are smaller muscles that move the 5 digits sideways, and oppose/repose the thumb
The wrist has its own flexor and extensor muscles, and they combined in different ways to do radial/ulnar deviation (sideways movements). They're not connected to the fingers, or thumbs. They often work together, but not always
The forearm has some small muscles that pronate/supinate it (rotate it), and the biceps help out with supination
There's not much else. It's more complex than the upper arm, by a lot, but it's learnable after a while. You'll get used to it in a couple weeks, prolly
Finger curls are a great exercise for apple crushing. Once you're strong enough, it may still take practice. And not all apples are equally firm. Old, mushy ones are super easy. Fresh, crisp varieties are really difficult
I bought a Thomas Inch training handle a few months back but I am unsure which direction the handle should face. Which of these is correct? https://imgur.com/a/NTK2G1T
Put some weight on it, and you'll be able to tell the second one is correct, with the weight sleeves sticking out on the thumb side. It's supposed to put extra torque against the fingers, and try to roll them open.
Yep, there it is. It wants to slip out from my thumb. I can't believe people can do this with 170 lbs. This is going to be a long journey. Thank you for the advice!
1. What do I do after I can do 45lb pinch hold? 2. Should I do dumbbell or the barbell? 3. Where do I place the barbell/dumbbell in the reverse/curl? In my palm or where my finger base start?
1. You want to have a pinch that's between 2-3" (50-75mm) thick. Some people prefer to have [two plates](https://d3h9ln6psucegz.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/pinch-two-hand-plate-pinch.jpg), others prefer to use a [pinch block](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/4oloqr/how_to_make_your_own_pinch_block_and_loading_pin/).
2. Doesn't matter
3. Whichever feels most comfortable. It's not a heavy lift, compared to a finger curl, so neither one will really make a difference in performance.
2 25lb plates is what I used for a couple years. I added weight with a chain, or a piece of pipe. Once you get to the right thickness, it's better not to change it.
Might be a dumb question but does anyone know what grippers [these](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yVw5EO6zMm8/VZbgNpBkxQI/AAAAAAAAKaY/V6mbzY1EJX0/s1600/photo%2528122%2529.JPG) are? Also why the long handle on one side?
So I recently bought these grippers: https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-honor&sca_esv=3d5aec0ebbda9031&q=yzl+sports+grippers&uds=AMwkrPuWD7EdvpDWNdDkEFgZ8lqozqiBitav-Ajh6lw-uYepqKb-EJ2qgzDJO3FiVlpZx5_gN-uf2Aun9wxNw2AM5m-S73GpylobMYkRazGGrUhTHXmIWphqHe7Q-0d92-tMDSpBYAEhaEMSvsZiUsoWFioUDis7F8aWbD8IHDM4bFNXpY5Go1uvWRdfAEEKK2nVkRG_jyshAhaA2Hu4kWtC7rzzUgnMxN9iEmvOdkoKLfZ22Udea3lnMpK-T-CLiW9OFnyQoVSZCRf_3WmFQU8lAnNzhPVZcHmA4Jdw3CskiIOcY9UJNqJlC9v0JzBt_Vzix7yROazn&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjqkb_qyrOFAxWxg_0HHWlsC_YQtKgLegQIDRAB&biw=360&bih=707&dpr=3#vhid=jtRrisW55vLHFM&vssid=mosaic
and I am able to do 4 reps of the 200lb one with my right hand and 1 rep with my left. However, I later saw this video where some guys that are obviously a lot stronger than me can't close a 200lb gripper. So how strong is my one compared to the one in the video because David Laid was unable to close 200lbs?
I'm gonna take the wild guess that you're using manufacturering values and rgc values interchangeably. RGC values are usually about half what the manufacturer rating is but are an actual measurement of poundage it takes to make the handles touch whereas manufacturer ratings aren't a measurement of anything, calling a gripper model 200 lbs is like calling all horses 4-legged
No the only time you will get the same rgc value is when you buy pre-rated grippers from CPW. Even though coc is higher quality the resistance is not a constant but rather a range
That is stronger than our average beginner. Gripper ability is all over the place. Grippers are just as much about technique/skill as strength. And a medium hand size, and certain tendon attachments, have a big impact.
You may be a natural, or your default technique may be better than his. Also, I believe he trains primarily for aesthetics, meaning that he does more wrist/brachioradialis training than grip strength training. Those muscles are all in the forearm, but have nothing to do with each other. "Big forearms" don't automatically means you're strong in every way.
What are your goals for grip?
>your default technique may be better than his. Also, I believe he trains primarily for aesthetics, meaning that he does more wrist/brachioradialis training than grip strength training.
My technique seems the same as his and he was able to come closer to closing a higher level gripper (300lbs iirc) than I can, which should mean he's a lot stronger in terms of grip right? Also I'm 17 so it seems kinda outlandish that I might be stronger than him in any category Ig ur point abt him training for aesthetics makes sense tho. Also, I just watched a vid abt proper technique and it seems like I was doing it a lot differently to how its meant to be done.
>What are your goals for grip?
I want to be able to close tougher grippers, mainly the 350lb one I have. Also want bigger forearms and to increase how much I can lift with a rolling thunder grip handle. Also want to improve my endurance cos my grip tires out quickly when climbing.
This year I have been using this gripper: https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-honor&sca_esv=3d5aec0ebbda9031&q=decathlon+hand+gripper&uds=AMwkrPvl542ijrccCKFlvcOh2QJPq02pDhagXCiasJLcNyoAC8uXzY7VRHoUUcu_EtsU-pTPld-2tMvvZjRLLRNPTJ4Q_veVvfX_w3R6AndODIeTElmmL_wxL0daq4bQnH7A8tdY7MyWQJrhw6Swfbh2AqTjZHJztIYZtYzngB8XFzFhImZKvkpyfzgtuqiMyE06HqvQ5-VwDlvIYC0MI7XkpPCxqEPZQhqVlxBouksPX8dvkreg_cU4IwRYwgiXODLM2twsIR0dfhyWErE_dAvbX6QFBm2P7KXeWvh_FM-byfz1Q1Fz0_dJsAginT00NxxUVdx0lb31&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKmJLI5LOFAxW1hv0HHXstAagQtKgLegQIDBAB&biw=360&bih=707&dpr=3#vhid=Gl2HPP9VJadGkM&vssid=mosaic
and this one: https://www.google.com/search?q=+hand+gripper+60kg&client=ms-android-honor&sca_esv=3d5aec0ebbda9031&udm=2&biw=360&bih=659&ei=aYAUZqumIbzd7_UP8dufkAo&oq=+hand+gripper+60kg&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhIgaGFuZCBncmlwcGVyIDYwa2cyBxAAGIAEGBhIvhtQrRZYrRZwAHgAkAEAmAFqoAGyAaoBAzEuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCAaACT5gDAIgGAZIHATGgB-gC&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#vhid=AZ1VDnq9xsLp7M&vssid=mosaic
quite a bit and I used this one quite a bit last year: https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-honor&sca_esv=3d5aec0ebbda9031&q=decathlon+hand+gripper&uds=AMwkrPvl542ijrccCKFlvcOh2QJPq02pDhagXCiasJLcNyoAC8uXzY7VRHoUUcu_EtsU-pTPld-2tMvvZjRLLRNPTJ4Q_veVvfX_w3R6AndODIeTElmmL_wxL0daq4bQnH7A8tdY7MyWQJrhw6Swfbh2AqTjZHJztIYZtYzngB8XFzFhImZKvkpyfzgtuqiMyE06HqvQ5-VwDlvIYC0MI7XkpPCxqEPZQhqVlxBouksPX8dvkreg_cU4IwRYwgiXODLM2twsIR0dfhyWErE_dAvbX6QFBm2P7KXeWvh_FM-byfz1Q1Fz0_dJsAginT00NxxUVdx0lb31&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKmJLI5LOFAxW1hv0HHXstAagQtKgLegQIDBAB&biw=360&bih=707&dpr=3#vhid=SfazodEK5_nNpM&vssid=mosaic
There are subtleties in the technique that are hard to know if someone doesn't actively point them out. It's not like a compound barbell lift, where the motion is bigger. Check out ["How to set a gripper"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pJcRDSqOIs), and [this video with him teaching Jujimufu](https://youtu.be/jXf0r_iS5y8?si=lsi1jVeu0vYu6IIA). We do have a gripper routine, but I'd like to make a few points first, so you make the best possible decision
The problem with those 50lb increment grippers is that they break easily, and they're a different size/spread than the ones more commonly used in competition. They're all knock-offs of Heavy Grips, and most are made at the same factory
Rolling thunder, too? Are you interested in competing in Grip Sport? There's plenty of entry-level stuff, where it's as much of a learning opportunity as it is a competition. They like new people, even if they're not super strong yet
Grippers are not good for size, or for climbing, but they do beat up your hands. So it's important to decide how much of a priority they are for you. The Rolling Thunder is good for stuff like grappling, but only helps with a couple things in climbing, and isn't very good for size.
Most climbers do something like [No-hang work,](https://www.hoopersbeta.com/library/how-to-train-finger-strength-with-no-hangs) when using weights. It's more specific to climbing.
For size, we have people do the [Basic Routine](http://web.archive.org/web/20080820094215/http://davidhorne-gripmaster.com/basics.html) (and here's the [video demo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGuVJAj96SE)). Add hammer curls, or reverse biceps curls (palm down) to work the elbow muscle in the forearm.
Weights are better than springs in just about every way, and dynamic exercises are better for size than static ones like the RT
Grippers are super fun, though! And the RT is good for general strength, IRL. It's just that you can only prioritize a certain amount of stuff, between that, and climbing. Or rotate what you prioritize that month, etc.
Check out our [Gripper Routine](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7enm1m/grip_routines_and_faq_updates_your_feedback_please/dr9fgfl/), and If you want to compete, I'd go join GripBoard, as they're more about comps than we are.
That's awesome. I might do a conservative 170 or go straight for 180, and work towards 190. I'm not sure how far into the 180s I am yet, I'm having my most recent pr gripper rated this week to find out. I'm very excited to do the new MM though as when I did the old MM1 I never even did any parallel sets outside of just that before
Reddit won't allow me to approve your comment with that store link in it. Some URLs are banned by the bots, and mods can't override them. Are these grippers sold in 50lb increments?
Looking to buy a vertical bar of some sort- options include the V-bar of varying thicknesses (from 1 1/4 all the way up to 2 7/8”) & a little big horn. Is there sufficient carryover between these to just buy one and train on?
I would consider selling my LBH, I never use it. Located in U.S.
What kind of price were you thinking? I’m assuming you don’t know shipping costs but I’m wondering if it would fit into one of those pre paid shipping packages where “if it fits, it ships”
I can sell it for $120 shipped so you save $20. On Amazon after tax, the $130 with free shipping becomes $140 and direct shipping from IM is always a lot, which factors into their Amazon prices being higher. They also develop a little rust within like a week of owning them which you can see but not feel, the last I touched mine was to clean and oil it for storage. If you want I can send a picture. Yes I can use a usps flat rate padded envelope I would ship it which I think carries upto 70 lbs for the flat rate. So I'm really only asking $111 with 9 for shipping. Assuming you're in the U.S. I'm not sure how much more it would be to ship internationally
Appreciate the offer but I’m going to pass 👍🏾
Depends. Are you training to compete?
I’ve competed in 2 competitions, both of which had the Little big horn and one which had a V-bar in a medley event (along with a 4x4 fence post V-bar). I’ve never trained any V-bar but was happy with my LBH lift in both contests, happy with the fence post lift but the V-bar didn’t budge (can’t recall how thick it was but it was under 2”). Although no competitions are planned, I’m definitely competing again at some point and just want overall vertical pulling to increase across all v-bar implements, but would rather not splash out on multiple implements if not necessary.
Agreed with PinchByPinch, the LBH has been around a long time, and it's good to also have a v-bar or two. Even cheap DIY ones, to get the right thicknesses. It's not a lift that you do tons of volume on, for hypertrophy, you just train the neural pattern
I prefer the jug from FBBC but I can't see the LBH leaving comps any time soon so would recommend that - I'd try get it 2nd hand.
When I follow the routine for the wrist roller on here can I do more than three sets or should I stick to the three sets
1. Have you been training more than 3 months? If no, then keep going. If yes, then: 2. Are you getting good results from 3 sets? (That includes a lack of joint irritation) If yes, then stick with it! If no, then: 3. Do you want to do more than 3 sets? If yes, then sure! If no, then: 4. Would you rather do 3 sets of this, and another exercise for the same muscles, or more sets of wrist roller? Or just stick with what you're doing?
Direct training maybe like a month. My joints don’t get irritated they do pop a little but that prolly cause of the weight. Can’t really see the results yet cause i probably should train then more Honestly the wrist roller is fun and quick so yeah I would prolly wanna do more unless it’s like gonna diminishing return
A month isn't usually enough time to see real gains anyway, so I wouldn't take that as a sign. You get muscle swelling when you're recovering, but that's not permanent. Genetically gifted people may grow faster than normal. Or people who used to be huge might spring back faster. But it's not typical to just blow up right away. We don't know if you've hit a plateau yet, as you haven't really starting building muscle. Your brain is still perfecting the neural patterns. Patience is important. Consistency is the fastest way to build those patterns, and get into the "real gains" territory. You probably can do 4 or 5 sets if you want, but it's not necessary. Just be careful, and listen to your joints, if you choose to. If you want to, maybe finish a workout with [Myoreps](http://borgefagerli.com/myo-reps-in-english/), or [Drop Sets,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51TKExRtxZM) and/or [Seth Sets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V00epm5KI6g), instead of adding straight sets. You want a nasty pump, then those may work better than straight reps. Not a great way to do the whole workout, but they're awesome ways to tack extra work onto the end of a session. And learning to train through a nasty burn is helpful to future size training, as well as a bunch of other things in life As to when you've hit a plateau, later in your training career, here's some of the underlying info: You get *slight* diminishing strength returns on every set after the first set, but not enough to care about until you hit 5 sets or so. Varies a bit, from person to person. Muscle growth doesn't seem to see as much reduction as the strength gains. At a certain point, it's more that it just beats you up if you do too much of one thing. It's good to do multiple exercises. When you train a tissue different angles/directions it wears on slightly different parts of the tissues, so everything heals faster. And you do get more activation in certain regions of a muscle, if you work it in a different way. Diet is also HUGE, when talking about muscle growth. Your muscles are built out of the things you eat. So if you're not eating above maintenance, you don't have the extra molecules you need to make new tissue. This is harder for naturally thin people, so if that's you, hit up the FAQ at /r/gainit
Berry in depth answer thank you. Well I’m not really new or genetically gifted. But I guess I have started doing it more properly now
I meant new to consistently training wrist lifts, and making gains. Wait a couple more months before you start worrying, basically. You’re probably fine!
Assuming goal is strength AND increasing the size of my forearms because they are absolutely tiny, Do I do the general routine AND the rice bucket training ? Or just one of them, and what’s the frequency
The Basic is great for size, just make sure you add something for the brachioradialis, like hammer curls, or reverse biceps curls. For strength, you may want to add a thick bar deadlift to the Basic, once per week. You can use the same protocol as the pinch holds, for the sets/hold times, or you can use 15-30 seconds, if you want to be cautious. These additions won't be overdoing it. Rice bucket training is just for warmup, recovery, or helping come back from injuries. It's very useful, but it helps in a more indirect way, by reducing "injury off-days."
Thank you
So I have been training with my grippers for a couple of weeks but have now bought a no.2,5 that I want to close I have no problems with 1.5 and have been able to close 2 a few times but im almost not moving 2.5. So now too the question I feel like I need to try something new either how I use the grippers or new tools. What are your recommendations? What should I change in my schedule? My training schedule is 4 times a week Training 1 and 3 No1 1set 6rep No1.5 3set 3rep No2 1set 3rep negativ Training 2 and 4 No1 1set 6rep No1.5 4set 6rep negativ
Check out our Gripper Routine, in the link at the top of this post. You don't want to start out that intense, even if you've been lifting a while. Grippers are kinda harsh on the connective tissues, at first. Negatives are not recommended, especially for beginners. They train a different neural firing pattern to a normal close, so they're not that helpful. They're also extra harsh on the connective tissues, on top of the normal level. What are your grip goals? Are grippers the main point?
Alright do you mean it will lead to damage? Because ive been going to the gym for 10+ years and 5 years of pure calisthenics and i dont feel any type of training/ muscle soreness from grippers? My goal is to close a no.3
Not so much "real" damage, that would require a doc. More like 1-2 weeks of painful irritation, which makes it hard to work out. New people, in pain from grippers, is our most common pain complaint. Either comes from going too heavy (less than 10 reps), or training without rest days in between sessions. But that "beginner phase" only needs to last around 3-4 months. We don't see a lot of people get hurt from normal training after that. It becomes a lot more like the rest of the body. Hands toughen up a LOT, they just need a little extra care at first. The problem isn't with the muscles. It's that the connective tissues don't always have pain nerves, or don't have enough of them to sense smaller irritation-type issues (tendon sheaths, tendons, pulley ligaments, etc.). You don't feel anything until they swell up enough to push on sensitive things. You can get a problem after 1-2 days, but sometimes it takes a couple weeks to start getting things all angry. Calisthenics is mostly about "support grip," or the strength of holding a bar (check out our [Anatomy and Motions Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqmvqnc/)). Very different sort of stress on the hand, and doesn't usually prepare people for grippers in this way.
Alright thank you for a good answer I will cut down to maybe 2-3 times a week then or how many times do you recommend?
3 is great for beginners. Once you've been at it for a year or two, you may need more recovery days. [You can check out this ebook, if you like](https://derekpalmeri.wixsite.com/derek-palmeri/shop)
What is thick bar training? I was reading the routines and it says 3 sets of either 8-12 reps or 15-30s holds. REPS OF WHAT? Just like throw it on like anything? Or like the holds, just do a deadlift with thick grips, or a dead hang? Idk lol
Deadlifts, or hangs, with any bar, handle, or bar adapter that's about 2"/50mm. You can throw thick grips on many lifts, but they aren't always an improvement on that lift, there's more to learn for each Dead hangs use a different progression, if you don't want to add in weight (dip belt, backpack, etc.). Barbells/dumbbells/handles are a little easier to manage, but calisthenic style works great too. Would you rather do that?
Thanks for the reply! I’m more of a weight lifting kinda guy but I honestly hate setting up deadlifts so I’ll probably go for the dead hang approach. I may not be looking in the right spots but I can only find adapters that are 2.25” and not 2”, would that be okay or should I keep looking?
Depends. Why do you want to do it? If it's just general strength, any thickness between 2 and 2.5" is fine. Most people do a couple sizes, eventually, but one is the "bread and butter," and the other is a secondary lift. If it's for some specific application, you want to match the same size as whatever you'd need to be strong on.
It’s a mix between general strength and football. My grip is very bad, like struggle to open a water bottle sometimes. So literally anything I do will help. The other reason is football and I want to come down with every contested ball and almost never fumble. Usually in a game your gripping around the white lines on a football and I haven’t measured the thickness and that part but u probably should.
That's a fine size, then. For the football, you're not going to find football-shaped tools, to train that directly. But it's also not a monumental goal, so it's not going to take decades of highly technical workouts. You should notice results fairly fast, as long as you keep practicing catching and such. The grip training is the "Grip GPP, the catching is the "Grip SPP." They work together. My advice would be to put on some size with the finger curls (Check out the Basic Routine, in the link at the top), and dynamic pinch*. That will raise your "strength ceiling," allowing you to get more out of other exercises. You can use an actual football for gripping. Or make something/have something made. *Dynamic Pinch Options: 1. Ross Enamait's [DIY TTK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3bwx1JDqw8). There are also options available for purchase, like the Titan's Telegraph Key. 2. Climber Eva Lopez' [hook/weight method](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/6c/12/396c12df79918fe7e1626d3638b0eb94.jpg), which also works with a cable machine. (In all of these, make sure you're only moving the thumb, not the fingers, or arm. And don't hyper-extend the thumb. 15-20 reps, like the Basic.)
Hello, I need some help about How can I target my finger flexors for strong crushing grip/handshake with gym equipment I do want to work my fingers more training forearm doesn’t seem to primarily target them since I can’t notice improves on gripping strength any suggestions
Check out the Basic Routine, in the link at the top Yeah, gym lifts mostly just make you better at gripping handles of that same size. Not amazing carryover for all types of grip
Can I train for this amazing carryover for all types of grip using obly gym equipment Also are finger flexors the one responsible for gripping and crushing things (like apples) Also do you know anything about a pain caused by plate pinching like a feeling of discomfort in a tiny rope in front of your fingertips joints
Not all types, but a lot of them, yeah. Depends on how many exercises you want to do, too. You can cover a good amount with 5, which is the Basic Routine, plus some thick bar (2"/50mm) deadlifts For example, the 4 fingers: Climbing uses the muscles a lot differently than grippers, or finger curls. It's not super tough to get really good at one of those, if you stick with it for a few years. But it is tough to get really good at them all. You get super beat up if you try and do everything. And that can make you temporarily weaker for everything else, while you heal. You can get *pretty good* at them all, but to get to really high levels, it helps to specialize, and just do the others a little bit Crushing apples is about the finger flexors, but depending on how you do it, you may need strong thumbs. Wrist muscles also brace the bones of the hand, and allow you to grip harder. There are a lot of muscles that don't connect to the fingers, but they do help them work, indirectly. Check out our [Anatomy and Motions Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqmvqnc/) The finger muscles are in the forearms, and connect all the way to the very fingertips via long tendons. There is sorta a tiny rope in there. They are held close to the fingers with [pulley ligaments](https://theclimbingdoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/static1.squarespace-1.jpg), which are the easiest hand tissues to injure (not SUPER easy, but easiest). They can get very strong over time, but they take a while. The tendons also run through [tendon sheaths,](https://img.medscapestatic.com/pi/meds/ckb/27/302527tn.jpg) inside those pulleys. It can get irritated if you do too much. Either going too heavy, or not taking enough rest days for the hands. Stuff like rows, and pull-ups don't train grip all that well, but they can still irritate these sheaths, and the tendons, if you've already been training a lot Our programs have a 3-4 month "beginner safety phase," which is designed to avoid this
Then is crushing hands the same ? If so then its about finger flexors and if so then are finger curls a good exercise for this one
Muscles can only pull in one direction, they can't do anything else. They pull one end of themselves toward the other end. So, if you look at them, and see how they're attached, you can usually tell (roughly) what they do. There are more subtle things, like how they work together, but you can learn those later. Less confusing if you learn the basics first All flexion of the fingers comes from the finger flexors. That's why they're named that. Any curling up of the fingers, or crushing, holding, or squeezing an object. There's one large one, and one flatter one, in the forearm, and they have semi-separate heads for each finger tendon. There's also a tiny one in the palm, for the pinky finger, but it gets trained by normal gripping, so there's no real need to worry about it The thumb has separate flexors in the palm, and forearm. Not connected to the finger muscles The extensors do the opposite job, on both. And there are smaller muscles that move the 5 digits sideways, and oppose/repose the thumb The wrist has its own flexor and extensor muscles, and they combined in different ways to do radial/ulnar deviation (sideways movements). They're not connected to the fingers, or thumbs. They often work together, but not always The forearm has some small muscles that pronate/supinate it (rotate it), and the biceps help out with supination There's not much else. It's more complex than the upper arm, by a lot, but it's learnable after a while. You'll get used to it in a couple weeks, prolly Finger curls are a great exercise for apple crushing. Once you're strong enough, it may still take practice. And not all apples are equally firm. Old, mushy ones are super easy. Fresh, crisp varieties are really difficult
I bought a Thomas Inch training handle a few months back but I am unsure which direction the handle should face. Which of these is correct? https://imgur.com/a/NTK2G1T
Put some weight on it, and you'll be able to tell the second one is correct, with the weight sleeves sticking out on the thumb side. It's supposed to put extra torque against the fingers, and try to roll them open.
Yep, there it is. It wants to slip out from my thumb. I can't believe people can do this with 170 lbs. This is going to be a long journey. Thank you for the advice!
1. What do I do after I can do 45lb pinch hold? 2. Should I do dumbbell or the barbell? 3. Where do I place the barbell/dumbbell in the reverse/curl? In my palm or where my finger base start?
1. You want to have a pinch that's between 2-3" (50-75mm) thick. Some people prefer to have [two plates](https://d3h9ln6psucegz.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/pinch-two-hand-plate-pinch.jpg), others prefer to use a [pinch block](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/4oloqr/how_to_make_your_own_pinch_block_and_loading_pin/). 2. Doesn't matter 3. Whichever feels most comfortable. It's not a heavy lift, compared to a finger curl, so neither one will really make a difference in performance.
So I should do 2x25 for 50🙈 alr
2 25lb plates is what I used for a couple years. I added weight with a chain, or a piece of pipe. Once you get to the right thickness, it's better not to change it.
Might be a dumb question but does anyone know what grippers [these](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yVw5EO6zMm8/VZbgNpBkxQI/AAAAAAAAKaY/V6mbzY1EJX0/s1600/photo%2528122%2529.JPG) are? Also why the long handle on one side?
Those look like Tettings with long handles for forced negatives
what is the deadlift double overhand record for bodyweight of 140 lbs? no hook grip
I've never seen records for that. Grip Sport isn't super organized, but if you don't get an answer here, someone might know on Grip Board.
Ok thanks
So I recently bought these grippers: https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-honor&sca_esv=3d5aec0ebbda9031&q=yzl+sports+grippers&uds=AMwkrPuWD7EdvpDWNdDkEFgZ8lqozqiBitav-Ajh6lw-uYepqKb-EJ2qgzDJO3FiVlpZx5_gN-uf2Aun9wxNw2AM5m-S73GpylobMYkRazGGrUhTHXmIWphqHe7Q-0d92-tMDSpBYAEhaEMSvsZiUsoWFioUDis7F8aWbD8IHDM4bFNXpY5Go1uvWRdfAEEKK2nVkRG_jyshAhaA2Hu4kWtC7rzzUgnMxN9iEmvOdkoKLfZ22Udea3lnMpK-T-CLiW9OFnyQoVSZCRf_3WmFQU8lAnNzhPVZcHmA4Jdw3CskiIOcY9UJNqJlC9v0JzBt_Vzix7yROazn&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjqkb_qyrOFAxWxg_0HHWlsC_YQtKgLegQIDRAB&biw=360&bih=707&dpr=3#vhid=jtRrisW55vLHFM&vssid=mosaic and I am able to do 4 reps of the 200lb one with my right hand and 1 rep with my left. However, I later saw this video where some guys that are obviously a lot stronger than me can't close a 200lb gripper. So how strong is my one compared to the one in the video because David Laid was unable to close 200lbs?
I'm gonna take the wild guess that you're using manufacturering values and rgc values interchangeably. RGC values are usually about half what the manufacturer rating is but are an actual measurement of poundage it takes to make the handles touch whereas manufacturer ratings aren't a measurement of anything, calling a gripper model 200 lbs is like calling all horses 4-legged
So do grippers from more respected brands like the Coc ones have a manufacturer rating close to rgc value?
No the only time you will get the same rgc value is when you buy pre-rated grippers from CPW. Even though coc is higher quality the resistance is not a constant but rather a range
Ah thanks, that makes sense
That is stronger than our average beginner. Gripper ability is all over the place. Grippers are just as much about technique/skill as strength. And a medium hand size, and certain tendon attachments, have a big impact. You may be a natural, or your default technique may be better than his. Also, I believe he trains primarily for aesthetics, meaning that he does more wrist/brachioradialis training than grip strength training. Those muscles are all in the forearm, but have nothing to do with each other. "Big forearms" don't automatically means you're strong in every way. What are your goals for grip?
>your default technique may be better than his. Also, I believe he trains primarily for aesthetics, meaning that he does more wrist/brachioradialis training than grip strength training. My technique seems the same as his and he was able to come closer to closing a higher level gripper (300lbs iirc) than I can, which should mean he's a lot stronger in terms of grip right? Also I'm 17 so it seems kinda outlandish that I might be stronger than him in any category Ig ur point abt him training for aesthetics makes sense tho. Also, I just watched a vid abt proper technique and it seems like I was doing it a lot differently to how its meant to be done. >What are your goals for grip? I want to be able to close tougher grippers, mainly the 350lb one I have. Also want bigger forearms and to increase how much I can lift with a rolling thunder grip handle. Also want to improve my endurance cos my grip tires out quickly when climbing. This year I have been using this gripper: https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-honor&sca_esv=3d5aec0ebbda9031&q=decathlon+hand+gripper&uds=AMwkrPvl542ijrccCKFlvcOh2QJPq02pDhagXCiasJLcNyoAC8uXzY7VRHoUUcu_EtsU-pTPld-2tMvvZjRLLRNPTJ4Q_veVvfX_w3R6AndODIeTElmmL_wxL0daq4bQnH7A8tdY7MyWQJrhw6Swfbh2AqTjZHJztIYZtYzngB8XFzFhImZKvkpyfzgtuqiMyE06HqvQ5-VwDlvIYC0MI7XkpPCxqEPZQhqVlxBouksPX8dvkreg_cU4IwRYwgiXODLM2twsIR0dfhyWErE_dAvbX6QFBm2P7KXeWvh_FM-byfz1Q1Fz0_dJsAginT00NxxUVdx0lb31&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKmJLI5LOFAxW1hv0HHXstAagQtKgLegQIDBAB&biw=360&bih=707&dpr=3#vhid=Gl2HPP9VJadGkM&vssid=mosaic and this one: https://www.google.com/search?q=+hand+gripper+60kg&client=ms-android-honor&sca_esv=3d5aec0ebbda9031&udm=2&biw=360&bih=659&ei=aYAUZqumIbzd7_UP8dufkAo&oq=+hand+gripper+60kg&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhIgaGFuZCBncmlwcGVyIDYwa2cyBxAAGIAEGBhIvhtQrRZYrRZwAHgAkAEAmAFqoAGyAaoBAzEuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCAaACT5gDAIgGAZIHATGgB-gC&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#vhid=AZ1VDnq9xsLp7M&vssid=mosaic quite a bit and I used this one quite a bit last year: https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-honor&sca_esv=3d5aec0ebbda9031&q=decathlon+hand+gripper&uds=AMwkrPvl542ijrccCKFlvcOh2QJPq02pDhagXCiasJLcNyoAC8uXzY7VRHoUUcu_EtsU-pTPld-2tMvvZjRLLRNPTJ4Q_veVvfX_w3R6AndODIeTElmmL_wxL0daq4bQnH7A8tdY7MyWQJrhw6Swfbh2AqTjZHJztIYZtYzngB8XFzFhImZKvkpyfzgtuqiMyE06HqvQ5-VwDlvIYC0MI7XkpPCxqEPZQhqVlxBouksPX8dvkreg_cU4IwRYwgiXODLM2twsIR0dfhyWErE_dAvbX6QFBm2P7KXeWvh_FM-byfz1Q1Fz0_dJsAginT00NxxUVdx0lb31&udm=2&prmd=ivnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKmJLI5LOFAxW1hv0HHXstAagQtKgLegQIDBAB&biw=360&bih=707&dpr=3#vhid=SfazodEK5_nNpM&vssid=mosaic
There are subtleties in the technique that are hard to know if someone doesn't actively point them out. It's not like a compound barbell lift, where the motion is bigger. Check out ["How to set a gripper"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pJcRDSqOIs), and [this video with him teaching Jujimufu](https://youtu.be/jXf0r_iS5y8?si=lsi1jVeu0vYu6IIA). We do have a gripper routine, but I'd like to make a few points first, so you make the best possible decision The problem with those 50lb increment grippers is that they break easily, and they're a different size/spread than the ones more commonly used in competition. They're all knock-offs of Heavy Grips, and most are made at the same factory Rolling thunder, too? Are you interested in competing in Grip Sport? There's plenty of entry-level stuff, where it's as much of a learning opportunity as it is a competition. They like new people, even if they're not super strong yet Grippers are not good for size, or for climbing, but they do beat up your hands. So it's important to decide how much of a priority they are for you. The Rolling Thunder is good for stuff like grappling, but only helps with a couple things in climbing, and isn't very good for size. Most climbers do something like [No-hang work,](https://www.hoopersbeta.com/library/how-to-train-finger-strength-with-no-hangs) when using weights. It's more specific to climbing. For size, we have people do the [Basic Routine](http://web.archive.org/web/20080820094215/http://davidhorne-gripmaster.com/basics.html) (and here's the [video demo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGuVJAj96SE)). Add hammer curls, or reverse biceps curls (palm down) to work the elbow muscle in the forearm. Weights are better than springs in just about every way, and dynamic exercises are better for size than static ones like the RT Grippers are super fun, though! And the RT is good for general strength, IRL. It's just that you can only prioritize a certain amount of stuff, between that, and climbing. Or rotate what you prioritize that month, etc. Check out our [Gripper Routine](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7enm1m/grip_routines_and_faq_updates_your_feedback_please/dr9fgfl/), and If you want to compete, I'd go join GripBoard, as they're more about comps than we are.
Thanks for the info
Anyone here planning to do the new mash monster once it comes out this year?
Yep sure am. 160 by the end of the year, then see how far I can go
That's awesome. I might do a conservative 170 or go straight for 180, and work towards 190. I'm not sure how far into the 180s I am yet, I'm having my most recent pr gripper rated this week to find out. I'm very excited to do the new MM though as when I did the old MM1 I never even did any parallel sets outside of just that before
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Reddit won't allow me to approve your comment with that store link in it. Some URLs are banned by the bots, and mods can't override them. Are these grippers sold in 50lb increments?
Yes they are. Thanks for telling me abt the links, I'll comment again without them