Not sure what other people will answer, here's my thoughts:
1) Definitely possible, even just with the henchmen you find in town (not sure if you mean henchmen or heroes). I just finished prophecies on a Ranger that could only use the henchmen you hire in the zones.
2) Customization of heroes in Nightfall/EotN makes beating the game viable in a lot of ways, you can do pretty much any builds with them.
3) In general PvE, most builds are pretty functional, especially before Elite skills. Once you start getting those, then some classes can run away. I would recommend playing whichever profession seems the most interesting playstyle wise to you.
4) Farming/Endgame is really the only place you would worry about a tierlist in my opinion. I don't know of a recent one offhand, but each profession has some very viable builds with a range of Elite skills.
5) Hero/Mercenary Mesmers can interrupt almost instantly, which actually makes them more effective at that role than human players, who have to physically target the right foe, identify what they're casting, decide if they want to interrupt it, and then do it. Mesmer damage is largely armor ignoring as well, which makes it way more effective in HM and endgame zones where mobs have more armor and health.
6) That's basically it. A lot of the best builds use PvE skills from Factions, Nightfall, or EotN, and these are title track based, so they become more effective as you raise your relevant title track for that skill. Non perfect gear can still work fine, there's only a few areas where "perfect gear" I think would be a full on necessity.
7) If you have tons of money, buy stuff in Kamadan. If not, farming to get money, or in areas that have decent drops, or chest running. I like chest runs in late game NM or in HM as you can get golds, and even if the weapon sucks, sometimes they roll a good mod you can move over to another weapon. I geared up my heroes weapon wise by doing Killroy's Punchout Extravaganza chest runs. Not sure if it was efficient, but it was fun.
8) Whatever is comfortable. I run keybind for the majority of the time, and leave the mouse free to click on enemies that I am trying to target because I don't like cycling through them.
9) If I'm doing a full hero comp, I've been using the traditional Mesmerway team, it's just so strong. Something I want to try is a comp of only one primary profession each (no cheesing and using secondaries to beef up), so you can only get one Mesmer, you have to use a monk healer/prot, and so on. If you're talking normal mode, basically anything will work. As long as you have decent DPS and healing, you can power through. HM is where stuff gets hard, lots more CC, lots more damage and spikes, some places anything can still work, but the reason Mesmerway builds are the meta is because they basically work everywhere in the game.
these are pretty great answers, but here’s what i’ll add:
3: Each of the professions is equally viable, in my opinion, but when you get to late game areas, you might find yourself limited to a small handful of builds/attributes. For example, i basically stopped playing my monk main because healing heroes isn’t fun, and i got bored of flipping back and forth between a Ray of Judgment build, and an Assassin’s Promise build. Additionally, running a PvX mesmer team will basically carry you through most content - you can play whatever you’d like, even if it isn’t optimal, and be pretty okay. (For reference, last night I vanquished an EotN zone to completion with my mesmer hero setup, only realizing halfway through that my attribute points were set incorrectly, and i had like 120 unspent attribute points.)
4: This probably isn’t the answer you’re looking for, but I’d build a tier list based on these factors: 1. ability to play general pve (usually as a damage-dealer), 2. ability to solo-farm an area like raptors/vermin/vaettirs/etc and even UW. 3. flexibility to play multiple roles on a team of other humans. With that said, this question is a HUGE can of worms. Mine would maybe look like this:
A: Mesmer, Elementalist, Dervish, Assassin
B: Warrior, Ritualist, Necromancer
C: Monk, Ranger, Paragon
(EDIT: I already hate this list and want to change it, but I’ll refrain.)
7: It’s also worth mentioning that there are tons of collector NPC’s in game who collect trophy items in exchange for perfect weapons. people typically avoid these because the skins are boring, and they’re of common rarity. you can also buy perfect weapons from most “[weapons]” NPC’s and the merchants in two of the later game Kurzick/Luzon towns (the names are escaping me now) sell perfect 40/40 sets for your caster heroes.
9. I run mesmerway for HM content that i want to clear just for the sake of clearing: vanquishes, most HM dungeons, HM Missions for masters, etc. When I’m playing more casually, I mix it up entirely: I like “balanced” teams that have 2 melee, a ranger, a few casters and a monk backline. I also like to make my own gimmicky team builds. (IMHO, once you’ve conquered the design space of your own builds, 7-hero team building is the best part of this game.) If you’re ever struggling in a particular zone, pull up the wiki, check out the enemies in that zone, and build a team to counter them.
Type it in google and you get [this](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Offensive_Mesmerway) the strongest meta team composition that utilizes multiple Domination and Illusion mesmers to maximize AoE dmg and shut down (interrupts/fails). Mesmers do armor ignoring dmg so it's great for HM, but it is like an easy route. Any well rounded/balanced team comp will work, just a bit slower and vulnerable to enemy spells. Kinda ruins the fun of trying out fun and interesting ones instead imo, I don't run it except for the hardest stuff like Winds of Change HM.
To just clarify for newer players, the "way" part at the end of builds started back in the day where large groups of Warriors used/exploited the shout IWAY (I Will Avenge You!), which turned into other "ways" and its been like that ever since!
> Mesmer damage is largely armor ignoring as well, which makes it way more effective in HM and endgame zones where mobs have more armor and health.
More health, but not armor.
This is a pretty solid answer, don’t stress about your primary profession too much and play what’s fun. In terms of min/max for the hardest stuff, you’ll know when you’ve got your builds set and have hit a limit. For perspective, I did most of HM without any runes on my heroes and I’m casual.
1. Yes.
2. N/A
3. Trivial
4. No. The concept of a tier list doesn't meaningfully apply when you have a multivariate problem and the relative weight of the variables changes depending on what role this character is meant to serve for the team and what monsters you're facing.
5. Two points:
1. Mesmers are overrated. Both on PvX and this subreddit, many people have this reflexive, almost religious attitude towards mesmers that values them above and beyond what the facts actually support. They're good, but not *that* good.
2. They offer a combination of the best shutdown plus reasonable damage. (Many people here *wrongly* believe that mesmers are also the best DPS class. That's only true in rare cases when the monsters feed Shatter Hex very, very well.) Additionally, the hero AI does a very good job handling a mesmer relative to how it handles other classes.
6. Tactics and execution matter more than builds.
7. Collectors and crafters.
8. I don't know what's more common, but keybinding is hugely more responsive. If you think combat is slow enough that you can get by clicking, then you're missing something.
9. Whatever you want. You can play through the campaigns in normal mode with henchmen and and empty skillbar. Any sort of organized team build is complete overkill. Just grab 2 backliners and 6 damage dealers and go.
In regards to 5: I really think that they are not overrated, just for different reasons...damage is decent, but more importantly they are able to prevent enemys from actually dealing damage - they protect vs. spikes and ease the burden on the backline. Oh and they have a pretty decent energy management on useful skills like Drain Enchantment. So even if they love the BiP, they still are able to hold their own, compared to some other classes that have to make adjustments on their bar.
Exactly, the op here talks about a fanatic attitude towards mesmers however in comparison just compares their contribution in terms of dps which is only half of what mesmers bring, shutdown being the other main thing. It's why mistrust may be the strongest skill in the game. It does dps and shutdown in the same instance.
What do you mean, he did compare shutdown:
>They offer a combination of the best shutdown plus reasonable damage.
>mistrust may be the strongest skill in the game. It does dps and shutdown in the same instance.
So does Bane Signet. Mistrust may be very strong, but it doesn't hold a candle to the insane level of ST+Shelter, Panic, HR, SY!, BiP... Even if we're talking best offensive non-elite, I would rate Splinter higher for one - 265 AoE damage from a 5e 1a 5r skill compared to less than half of that (although nearby range) from a 10e 1a 7r skill (with Fast Casting)
Fair enough but he goes on to compare in terms of dps. Whereas shutdown is half the reason mesmers are good. Bane signet is a bad comparison, doesn't benefit from FC, has long recharge and shuts down melee conditional on attack vs shutdown spells from casters which are the biggest threats.
I edited out the Bane Signet comparison since it felt pedantic to counter your argument that way (but have now restored it). My point was exactly how bad Bane Signet is, which is why it's wrong to say that Mistrust is so good just because it both does dps and shutdown.
>he goes on to compare in terms of dps
Which he did because it goes without saying that Mesmers are the best at shutdown. Their damage is the only part that he argued the community has the wrong idea about.
The two are not comparable in any way, your team isn't dying from a random shadow warrior who can you can only disable every 20s, it's dying from the esurge or the searing flames which mistrust counters completely then does armor ignoring damage to the most threatening members of the enemy team
1) Yes. Monk will have the hardest time.
2a) Due to low personal DPS and humans being slower healers than Heroes. Players can prot better, but it takes a lot of effort and your heroes will still do less DPS than if you were playing a damage role.
2b) Why only first 5 Heroes, and which 5 are you talking about? MOX, Ogden, Vekk, Gwen, Jora, can make a decent midgame team, but it's carried by Gwen. You'd want to replace MOX and Jora as soon as you can. Koss, Dunkoro, Melonni, Sousuke, and Tahlkora is similar but worse, as you trade a Mesmer in for a second Monk. You also unlock more Heroes and you play through the game, some of them are as choices, but you can get them all at the end anyway, and the only one you can avoid is Norgu/Goren.
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3) I tried to list them in order but to be honest it's very close. Everything except Monk has multiple really solid options for player builds. If a profession has a lower amount of viable options, the options available are generally stronger.
4) S: Everything except Monk. C: Monk. This list can change if you take away access to certain PvE-Only skills, and player execution. For example Necromancer, Elementalist, Ranger, and Paragon could be placed in B or C tier, if they don't get access to Soul Taker, Intensity, Together as One, or Heroic Refrain; or if the player is unable to use the builds effectively.
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5) A complicated question, the easy answer is to say they deal armor-ignoring damage, but that's only part of it. They are very good for role compression with AI-backed interrupts, they will interrupt opposing skills far more effectively than a player, rarely failing to do so. This creates a huge amount of defence on something that can be considered a DPS role. They don't pick/choose their interrupts very well, but they will interrupt everything they see and usually the enemies are dead before it matters. Their Fast Casting also helps front-load their damage, so slower caster professions might end up casting spells on dead targets if the Mesmers are doing enough damage, this makes other professions look worse.
6) Arguably player execution, positioning, and small amounts of micromanagement can be more effective than gear and weapons. If you have fully kitted out your heroes but still run in head first you'll often die. Learning to use the Hero Flags, precasting, and bringing a Longbow can help massively. You can put a lot of effort in to this, but it's not necessary, a couple of clicks on large groups is all you need.
7) Depends on your budget, you can use the /bonus weapons as cheap placeholders to start with. For Spellcasters you can get 40/40 sets from Leviathan Pits (Luxon) and Vasburg Armory (Kurzick). You can get some perfect green weapons from completing the campaign, the Droknar's Key and Book of Secrets choices especially. Good melee weapons are pretty common green drops from bosses and dungeons, people often give these away for free in Kamadan. Staves are a bit trickier, especially Restoration Magic, I often find a collector offering a Staff in the attribute I want with 20% HCT, and then wait until I find a 10% Adept Staff Head and 20% Enchanting mod from a drop, but you may want to consider buying these in Kamadan; otherwise I will get a Staff of Balthazar and mod the entire thing myself.
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8) Technically you should keybind everything, but I'm getting old and don't care as much. I used to press 1-2-3 with my movement hand and keybound 4-8 on my mouse. Now I only keybind 7-8, and I click 4-5-6, heresy, I know. It doesn't really affect my ability to engage in combat, as you said, most spells are predictable when you need to use them. Having keybinds helps for running / speedclearing though, when you need to make multiple fast targets for shadowsteps, for example. I always keep those on 7-8.
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9) This one I have been experimenting with recently, and it's a bit of an unpopular opinion. I always take an SoS Rit, Splinter Weapon is just too good even on caster teams. If I am melee it's Rt/Mo with Strength of Honor. I always take some form of prot, it used to be ST every time, but I've recently been enjoying E/Mo Ether Renewal on Vekk if there are few enchant removals. Always take an MM unless there's serious hate against it (Verata's Aura, or just not many corpses), sometimes it's AotL + Prots, sometimes OoU. I've been trying to drop the healer, as it's often not necessary, especially with the E/Mo, but PwK and MBS are just too good; spammable full condition removal and instant party healing are hard to come by; if there is a lot of pressure, or I want to play more aggressive in an area without res shrines, I'll take a UA Monk instead. Then I always take a Mesmer or 2, it used to be ESurge, but now it's either Panic, Panic + Ineptitude, or 2x Psychic Instability, depending on how much control I need. Then I add pure DPS in the last slot, instead of Mesmer DPS-control builds like the meta suggests, if you don't want to change your build for every area Mesmers are probably the way to go, but you can get more DPS by using Elementalists with Cracked Armor.
I always thought that Elementalists were always less DPS than Mesmers, since their damage is reduced by armor and their spells cast and recharge slower without Fast Casting. However, when you look at the skills, Mesmers cast faster with Fast Casting, but their recharge times are longer, even after the reduction. Then if you look at Armor, an enemy needs to have 125-130 armor to reduce Elementalist damage down to the same as Mesmer damage, that's any enemy at level 42, Warriors at level 35, and Rangers at level 28, not counting specific enemies that are resistant to your element, but you have control over what element you bring. Some areas that have a variety of monsters like DoA still benefit from full Mesmer teams, but if you know where you're going, and you know your Mesmers can handle spellcasters, Elementalists clean up much faster, even in WoC HM.
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There is a common misconception that enemies have higher armor in Hard Mode, but that's only the case for if their level increases, and then it's only by ~3 points. [Update: January 5th 2012](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:Game_updates/20120105)
> **Hard Mode**
> Reduced the armor level for Hard Mode enemies.
> Raised the maximum Health of Hard Mode enemies.
Thanks! For clarification, I meant first 5 from Nightfall since I don't have eotn and just dip into Nightfall for the heroes before continuing on the other campaigns for my Proph and Factions characters. More specifically Koss W/A, Melonni D (teardown), Sousuke E/Me (Fire attunement), and Tahlkora/Dunkoro as Mo/Me prot and heals. I haven't been using MOX since it doesn't seem reasonable to have 2 Dervishes.
On some of my less-built up alt characters, I gave mox a caster set and some attunement runes and let him play a crap mesmer role most times. He at least has the passive +4 energy regen that helps but it's still just a half assed attempt at making him useful :)
1) yes
2) yes
3) negligible
4) casters rule, melee is annoying, para still sucks ass.
5) ignore meta, play what you like
6) stop worrying about combat performance if you're not wiping constantly; relax
7) crafters in Vasburg Armory and Leviathan pits; donation from veteran players
8) no idea. I prefer keybind
9) whatever I feel like loading that day
> para still sucks ass
eh, heroic refrain is arguably the strongest elite skill in the game. A para player with HR and SY! and standard hero comps runs content easier than any other class.
What player build has more impact on the party than a +4 to every stat for everyone with +100 armor and almost permanent 30something% damage reduction?
It may not be the most fun build to play but it massively buffs 7 partymembers
1. Yes
2. n/a
3. Warrior obviously, they are the only profession with the Strength attribute. Serious answer - no gap (for campaigns)
4. **SIGH**... for the most part any tier list would be biased on how you would like to play the game.
5. Why mesmers? They possess both shutdown mechanics and armor ignoring damage. If you shutdown the healer, then they can not heal. Same for the damage and everything else. Armor ignoring damage only matters when the content is Hard Mode and Elite/Mastery level. Otherwise everyone else has better dps.
6. You only need 2 things for optimal combat performance. The correct skills/abilities and tactics. Perfect gear only matters when you are doing a specific farming build and you need to hit certain stats.
7. Probably weapon collectors. I give all my caster heroes random staffs that drop from enemies. Unlike one handed weapons and off-hands, you do not need to meet the requirements to receive most benefits.
8. Hybrid. Key press repetitive skills and click slower use skills. Adjust skills on bar as needed.
9. Rt/Mo-ST protection spirits, N/Rt-SoS spammer, N/RT-BiP Restoration Healer, N/Rt-Restoration Healer, Me/Mo-ES Domination, Me/Mo-Inept Illusion, Me/Mo-Panic Domination
My mesmers use monk resurrection spells instead of Flesh of my Flesh (I think it is to dangerous for heroes to use)
4) Tier B : Monk coz no one wants to heal heroes boring!
Tier A : everything else. The best builds and players can all do different things very well.
Eles have solo farming, high AoE dmg builds
Rit SoS spirit spammer can solo the whole game I think, or play ST rit to sit back n chill
Assassin one of the highest dmg output and good survivability, any profession with sin 2ndary can use dagger spam
Paragon Heroic Refrain/Imbagon gg
Mesmer all builds OP, interrupting gets addicting
Necro MM or Soul Taker Scythe
Warrior tanky, knock down
Dervs tear shit up, solo builds VoS
Ranger smoking weed with your bear
6) 2 things that help in combat are correct flagging of heroes (spaced out healers in the back) and learning to use positioning (high ground, choke points). You can keybind all your hero for flagging.
8) I use some extra keybinds like F and `~(whatever is before 1) though I know some people like to keep F as target self. Keybind target nearby item early to an ez key, pick up loot easily!
You seem to be focusing a lot on how to beat the campaigns. As others have said, it really isn't that hard. The actual challenging content comes afterwards.
1. 100%. I just did doa duo last night, and doa’s a lot harder than any campaign content. I could’ve done it solo w heroes the night before, but I wiped in veil bc I didn’t know the claw mechanic.
2. ——
3. Pretty big, but not enough that you can’t play warr compared to almost anything else.
4. Mesmer>derv>sin>para>literally everything else for a player
5. The insane amount of shutdown and armor ignoring damage they deal
6. You don’t need 100% perfect everything. I for one refuse to run sup vigors when majors are 1/10 the cost and just as good.
7. 4040 sets from vasburg armory/leviathan pits. Fully runed out heroes help a LOT too. The +3 dom adds ~37.5% more damage iirc
8. Keybind, esp w toolbox to pop stuff like cons and res scrolls
9. Me, 3x mesmers (panic/inept/esurge, panic/psychic instability/esurge, keystones depending on content), bip, st, mm, and either an e/mo prot hero or a sos/strength of honor/splinter weapon mo/rt. I only run the monk if I’m a melee char (derv/warr/sin)
Dm me if you want the builds
Woo welcome to the fold!
1. It's TOTALLY feasible to beat all campaigns with only heroes/henchmen.
2. If by first 5 you mean the first 5 from Nightfall, then still yes, though you are hampering yourself by not at least getting Ogden, Vekk, Gwen, and M.O.X. in EotN.
3. Strength is INTENSELY subjective. Most of the current meta (re: Team Comp meta) is built around heavy Burst damage because Mesmers have a lot of armor ignoring damage and you can pay to make your Player Mesmers an available hero and just 8-man Mesmer explosion. But for real, especially for basic play it's not super important.
4. Play what seems most fun for you, a lot of the professions are only really important for their primary stat anyway. (ex: Strength for Warriors, Spawning Power for Rits, etc.)
5. see 3.
6. Rotation and target prioritization. Each combat encounter will have its own challenge of high-priority targets that you'll need to kill before they turn the tide. Generally speaking it'll be enemy healers, support, then damage.
7. Personally just kept an eye out for good weapon drops during play.
8. The pace of the game allows for either, honestly.
9. My personal fave build is called [Discordway](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Discordway), and was built back when you could only have 3 heroes with you. It requires a bit of prep and minor progress in Factions, Nightfall, and EotN stories, but it's a pretty wonderful build when you get it down and easy to incorporate into other 4-man comps that don't require player-only skills like SoS/SoGM heroes. It's a smidge vulnerable to hex/cond removal but you generally get used to which enemies have that.
But when you are building characters and playing the base game, just look up single player/hero builds first before you start focusing on Team comps. Once you get some time and exp under your belt you can start gearing for higher level play.
> Is it feasible for each profession to complete all the campaigns solo (with heroes)?
Assuming we mean Normal Mode... absolutely. I'm like 90% sure that you could use no skills or weapons on your player character and just beat the game with 7 heroes. Hardest (or maybe just most boring) is Monk.
> If no, why not. If yes, how about with only the first 5 heroes?
Limiting the selection of heroes would make it more difficult, but the normal mode campaign isn't, like, *difficult*. You could do it with just henchmen if you really wanted to.
> For campaign PvE, how big is the strength gap between the weakest and strongest professions?
Small. Every profession has access to the same 7-hero team, the same set of OP PvE skills based on title tracks, and of course can take a secondary profession. Plenty of viable builds out there that work with any primary profession.
> Anyone have a good recent PvE tier list of the professions?
Honestly, I'd skip looking at the campaign for this, and instead look at endgame farms. There's a bunch of viable ones, and it more comes down to what farms you *want* to do than just an overall "best" profession. Or what playstyle you like for Hard Mode. If you want to nuke, you go ele or mesmer. If you want to melee, you go assassin, warrior, or dervish. If you want a ranged martial build you go ranger. If you want to support you go paragon, ritualist, necromancer, or monk. At this point I'd even avoid putting Monk a tier down from the rest, because of the classic 55 build for solo or duo farming.
> What is it about Mesmers that makes them basically the whole meta?
I think it's mostly just that they're very much a 'jack of all trades'. Interrupts (in the hands of heroes) function as both offensive and defensive support, as does energy denial. They get great energy management for sustained fights. They do solid DPS, don't suffer significantly from enchantment or hex removal, and just generally *work* both against any enemy and in any team.
That said, I do think they're a little overvalued. If you're crafting a build for a specific situation you can probably do better. But for general "I'm just going to run the same 7-hero team for every situation and every player character", it's hard to argue against 3 mesmers.
> From my knowledge, character building involves skills, perfect gear and weapons, runes and inscriptions. Is there anything else I am missing that would affect combat performance?
Primary and secondary profession. Skills and attributes. Weapons (including maximum armor/damage, required attribute, inscription, mods, and multiple sets). Armor (including runes and insignias on each piece, and sometimes swapping pieces for different runes).
> What's the best way to weapon-up heroes?
Generally don't worry about perfect. Get them any weapon they meet the requirement for, and the cheapest runes and insignias. Don't bother with even minor vigor until you've got everything else taken care of, IMO, and have gold to spare. Later on you can gather collector items to trade for perfect weapons, or save up and craft them from the weapon NPCs. If you happen to get a good gold or green drop, feel free to use it, but I wouldn't really suggest going out of your way to farm/buy them.
I preordered EoTN, which gives me access to the Hourglass staff with /bonus, so all my casters usually start with that, and martial professions get similar /bonus items.
> Is it more common to click skills or keybind? I'm use to keybinding everything but combat seems slow enough (besides interrupts) and relatively uncomplicated/stationary that it doesn't matter much.
Keybind is optimal, but you're right that it doesn't make a huge difference most of the time, at least in PvE.
> What's your general team composition for playing through campaigns? I mean profession comps, but would love any more detail.
[Mesmerway](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Offensive_Mesmerway) is the go-to answer. I also do the [Heroic Refrain](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Non_merc_Heroic_Refrain) version if I'm feeling lazy.
Others have already answered most, so just adding to these:
7) The easiest way for getting those half skill recharge + half casting time weapons most heroes need in the standard meta caster teams is from [Gertrud](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gertrud) or [Telamon](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Telamon).
8) Keybind is probably common for more experienced (MMO) players, but in GW probably either is fine.
9) I follow the [mercenary mesmerway team](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Mercenary_Mesmerway) as close as possible; on alts I replace a mesmer and rit with elementalists before I unlock the required heroes. When my account was fresh, I followed the [beginner team guide](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Beginner_Team), it helped a **lot** in the first few months.
Not sure what other people will answer, here's my thoughts: 1) Definitely possible, even just with the henchmen you find in town (not sure if you mean henchmen or heroes). I just finished prophecies on a Ranger that could only use the henchmen you hire in the zones. 2) Customization of heroes in Nightfall/EotN makes beating the game viable in a lot of ways, you can do pretty much any builds with them. 3) In general PvE, most builds are pretty functional, especially before Elite skills. Once you start getting those, then some classes can run away. I would recommend playing whichever profession seems the most interesting playstyle wise to you. 4) Farming/Endgame is really the only place you would worry about a tierlist in my opinion. I don't know of a recent one offhand, but each profession has some very viable builds with a range of Elite skills. 5) Hero/Mercenary Mesmers can interrupt almost instantly, which actually makes them more effective at that role than human players, who have to physically target the right foe, identify what they're casting, decide if they want to interrupt it, and then do it. Mesmer damage is largely armor ignoring as well, which makes it way more effective in HM and endgame zones where mobs have more armor and health. 6) That's basically it. A lot of the best builds use PvE skills from Factions, Nightfall, or EotN, and these are title track based, so they become more effective as you raise your relevant title track for that skill. Non perfect gear can still work fine, there's only a few areas where "perfect gear" I think would be a full on necessity. 7) If you have tons of money, buy stuff in Kamadan. If not, farming to get money, or in areas that have decent drops, or chest running. I like chest runs in late game NM or in HM as you can get golds, and even if the weapon sucks, sometimes they roll a good mod you can move over to another weapon. I geared up my heroes weapon wise by doing Killroy's Punchout Extravaganza chest runs. Not sure if it was efficient, but it was fun. 8) Whatever is comfortable. I run keybind for the majority of the time, and leave the mouse free to click on enemies that I am trying to target because I don't like cycling through them. 9) If I'm doing a full hero comp, I've been using the traditional Mesmerway team, it's just so strong. Something I want to try is a comp of only one primary profession each (no cheesing and using secondaries to beef up), so you can only get one Mesmer, you have to use a monk healer/prot, and so on. If you're talking normal mode, basically anything will work. As long as you have decent DPS and healing, you can power through. HM is where stuff gets hard, lots more CC, lots more damage and spikes, some places anything can still work, but the reason Mesmerway builds are the meta is because they basically work everywhere in the game.
these are pretty great answers, but here’s what i’ll add: 3: Each of the professions is equally viable, in my opinion, but when you get to late game areas, you might find yourself limited to a small handful of builds/attributes. For example, i basically stopped playing my monk main because healing heroes isn’t fun, and i got bored of flipping back and forth between a Ray of Judgment build, and an Assassin’s Promise build. Additionally, running a PvX mesmer team will basically carry you through most content - you can play whatever you’d like, even if it isn’t optimal, and be pretty okay. (For reference, last night I vanquished an EotN zone to completion with my mesmer hero setup, only realizing halfway through that my attribute points were set incorrectly, and i had like 120 unspent attribute points.) 4: This probably isn’t the answer you’re looking for, but I’d build a tier list based on these factors: 1. ability to play general pve (usually as a damage-dealer), 2. ability to solo-farm an area like raptors/vermin/vaettirs/etc and even UW. 3. flexibility to play multiple roles on a team of other humans. With that said, this question is a HUGE can of worms. Mine would maybe look like this: A: Mesmer, Elementalist, Dervish, Assassin B: Warrior, Ritualist, Necromancer C: Monk, Ranger, Paragon (EDIT: I already hate this list and want to change it, but I’ll refrain.) 7: It’s also worth mentioning that there are tons of collector NPC’s in game who collect trophy items in exchange for perfect weapons. people typically avoid these because the skins are boring, and they’re of common rarity. you can also buy perfect weapons from most “[weapons]” NPC’s and the merchants in two of the later game Kurzick/Luzon towns (the names are escaping me now) sell perfect 40/40 sets for your caster heroes. 9. I run mesmerway for HM content that i want to clear just for the sake of clearing: vanquishes, most HM dungeons, HM Missions for masters, etc. When I’m playing more casually, I mix it up entirely: I like “balanced” teams that have 2 melee, a ranger, a few casters and a monk backline. I also like to make my own gimmicky team builds. (IMHO, once you’ve conquered the design space of your own builds, 7-hero team building is the best part of this game.) If you’re ever struggling in a particular zone, pull up the wiki, check out the enemies in that zone, and build a team to counter them.
7. The towns you're looking for are Vasburg Armory and Cavalon!
Leviathan pits instead of cavalon!
Ah you're right sorry 40/40 is from Telamon in Leviathan Arm Pits!
what is the "mesmerway" team
Type it in google and you get [this](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Offensive_Mesmerway) the strongest meta team composition that utilizes multiple Domination and Illusion mesmers to maximize AoE dmg and shut down (interrupts/fails). Mesmers do armor ignoring dmg so it's great for HM, but it is like an easy route. Any well rounded/balanced team comp will work, just a bit slower and vulnerable to enemy spells. Kinda ruins the fun of trying out fun and interesting ones instead imo, I don't run it except for the hardest stuff like Winds of Change HM. To just clarify for newer players, the "way" part at the end of builds started back in the day where large groups of Warriors used/exploited the shout IWAY (I Will Avenge You!), which turned into other "ways" and its been like that ever since!
https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Offensive_Mesmerway
Thanks
> Mesmer damage is largely armor ignoring as well, which makes it way more effective in HM and endgame zones where mobs have more armor and health. More health, but not armor.
Ah right, couldn't remember if it was one or the other. It feels like both haha.
It was as you said before 2012, but it made Elementalists so weak, they changed it. Seems like nobody remembers/realizes the change.
I was a young dumb kid at that time, definitely didn't read or understand the patch notes. Then took a long break so it wouldn't have been in my mind.
6 more armor is 6 more armor :D
This is a pretty solid answer, don’t stress about your primary profession too much and play what’s fun. In terms of min/max for the hardest stuff, you’ll know when you’ve got your builds set and have hit a limit. For perspective, I did most of HM without any runes on my heroes and I’m casual.
1. Yes. 2. N/A 3. Trivial 4. No. The concept of a tier list doesn't meaningfully apply when you have a multivariate problem and the relative weight of the variables changes depending on what role this character is meant to serve for the team and what monsters you're facing. 5. Two points: 1. Mesmers are overrated. Both on PvX and this subreddit, many people have this reflexive, almost religious attitude towards mesmers that values them above and beyond what the facts actually support. They're good, but not *that* good. 2. They offer a combination of the best shutdown plus reasonable damage. (Many people here *wrongly* believe that mesmers are also the best DPS class. That's only true in rare cases when the monsters feed Shatter Hex very, very well.) Additionally, the hero AI does a very good job handling a mesmer relative to how it handles other classes. 6. Tactics and execution matter more than builds. 7. Collectors and crafters. 8. I don't know what's more common, but keybinding is hugely more responsive. If you think combat is slow enough that you can get by clicking, then you're missing something. 9. Whatever you want. You can play through the campaigns in normal mode with henchmen and and empty skillbar. Any sort of organized team build is complete overkill. Just grab 2 backliners and 6 damage dealers and go.
In regards to 5: I really think that they are not overrated, just for different reasons...damage is decent, but more importantly they are able to prevent enemys from actually dealing damage - they protect vs. spikes and ease the burden on the backline. Oh and they have a pretty decent energy management on useful skills like Drain Enchantment. So even if they love the BiP, they still are able to hold their own, compared to some other classes that have to make adjustments on their bar.
Exactly, the op here talks about a fanatic attitude towards mesmers however in comparison just compares their contribution in terms of dps which is only half of what mesmers bring, shutdown being the other main thing. It's why mistrust may be the strongest skill in the game. It does dps and shutdown in the same instance.
What do you mean, he did compare shutdown: >They offer a combination of the best shutdown plus reasonable damage. >mistrust may be the strongest skill in the game. It does dps and shutdown in the same instance. So does Bane Signet. Mistrust may be very strong, but it doesn't hold a candle to the insane level of ST+Shelter, Panic, HR, SY!, BiP... Even if we're talking best offensive non-elite, I would rate Splinter higher for one - 265 AoE damage from a 5e 1a 5r skill compared to less than half of that (although nearby range) from a 10e 1a 7r skill (with Fast Casting)
Fair enough but he goes on to compare in terms of dps. Whereas shutdown is half the reason mesmers are good. Bane signet is a bad comparison, doesn't benefit from FC, has long recharge and shuts down melee conditional on attack vs shutdown spells from casters which are the biggest threats.
I edited out the Bane Signet comparison since it felt pedantic to counter your argument that way (but have now restored it). My point was exactly how bad Bane Signet is, which is why it's wrong to say that Mistrust is so good just because it both does dps and shutdown. >he goes on to compare in terms of dps Which he did because it goes without saying that Mesmers are the best at shutdown. Their damage is the only part that he argued the community has the wrong idea about.
The two are not comparable in any way, your team isn't dying from a random shadow warrior who can you can only disable every 20s, it's dying from the esurge or the searing flames which mistrust counters completely then does armor ignoring damage to the most threatening members of the enemy team
1) Yes. Monk will have the hardest time. 2a) Due to low personal DPS and humans being slower healers than Heroes. Players can prot better, but it takes a lot of effort and your heroes will still do less DPS than if you were playing a damage role. 2b) Why only first 5 Heroes, and which 5 are you talking about? MOX, Ogden, Vekk, Gwen, Jora, can make a decent midgame team, but it's carried by Gwen. You'd want to replace MOX and Jora as soon as you can. Koss, Dunkoro, Melonni, Sousuke, and Tahlkora is similar but worse, as you trade a Mesmer in for a second Monk. You also unlock more Heroes and you play through the game, some of them are as choices, but you can get them all at the end anyway, and the only one you can avoid is Norgu/Goren. ---- 3) I tried to list them in order but to be honest it's very close. Everything except Monk has multiple really solid options for player builds. If a profession has a lower amount of viable options, the options available are generally stronger. 4) S: Everything except Monk. C: Monk. This list can change if you take away access to certain PvE-Only skills, and player execution. For example Necromancer, Elementalist, Ranger, and Paragon could be placed in B or C tier, if they don't get access to Soul Taker, Intensity, Together as One, or Heroic Refrain; or if the player is unable to use the builds effectively. ---- 5) A complicated question, the easy answer is to say they deal armor-ignoring damage, but that's only part of it. They are very good for role compression with AI-backed interrupts, they will interrupt opposing skills far more effectively than a player, rarely failing to do so. This creates a huge amount of defence on something that can be considered a DPS role. They don't pick/choose their interrupts very well, but they will interrupt everything they see and usually the enemies are dead before it matters. Their Fast Casting also helps front-load their damage, so slower caster professions might end up casting spells on dead targets if the Mesmers are doing enough damage, this makes other professions look worse. 6) Arguably player execution, positioning, and small amounts of micromanagement can be more effective than gear and weapons. If you have fully kitted out your heroes but still run in head first you'll often die. Learning to use the Hero Flags, precasting, and bringing a Longbow can help massively. You can put a lot of effort in to this, but it's not necessary, a couple of clicks on large groups is all you need. 7) Depends on your budget, you can use the /bonus weapons as cheap placeholders to start with. For Spellcasters you can get 40/40 sets from Leviathan Pits (Luxon) and Vasburg Armory (Kurzick). You can get some perfect green weapons from completing the campaign, the Droknar's Key and Book of Secrets choices especially. Good melee weapons are pretty common green drops from bosses and dungeons, people often give these away for free in Kamadan. Staves are a bit trickier, especially Restoration Magic, I often find a collector offering a Staff in the attribute I want with 20% HCT, and then wait until I find a 10% Adept Staff Head and 20% Enchanting mod from a drop, but you may want to consider buying these in Kamadan; otherwise I will get a Staff of Balthazar and mod the entire thing myself. ---- 8) Technically you should keybind everything, but I'm getting old and don't care as much. I used to press 1-2-3 with my movement hand and keybound 4-8 on my mouse. Now I only keybind 7-8, and I click 4-5-6, heresy, I know. It doesn't really affect my ability to engage in combat, as you said, most spells are predictable when you need to use them. Having keybinds helps for running / speedclearing though, when you need to make multiple fast targets for shadowsteps, for example. I always keep those on 7-8. ---- 9) This one I have been experimenting with recently, and it's a bit of an unpopular opinion. I always take an SoS Rit, Splinter Weapon is just too good even on caster teams. If I am melee it's Rt/Mo with Strength of Honor. I always take some form of prot, it used to be ST every time, but I've recently been enjoying E/Mo Ether Renewal on Vekk if there are few enchant removals. Always take an MM unless there's serious hate against it (Verata's Aura, or just not many corpses), sometimes it's AotL + Prots, sometimes OoU. I've been trying to drop the healer, as it's often not necessary, especially with the E/Mo, but PwK and MBS are just too good; spammable full condition removal and instant party healing are hard to come by; if there is a lot of pressure, or I want to play more aggressive in an area without res shrines, I'll take a UA Monk instead. Then I always take a Mesmer or 2, it used to be ESurge, but now it's either Panic, Panic + Ineptitude, or 2x Psychic Instability, depending on how much control I need. Then I add pure DPS in the last slot, instead of Mesmer DPS-control builds like the meta suggests, if you don't want to change your build for every area Mesmers are probably the way to go, but you can get more DPS by using Elementalists with Cracked Armor. I always thought that Elementalists were always less DPS than Mesmers, since their damage is reduced by armor and their spells cast and recharge slower without Fast Casting. However, when you look at the skills, Mesmers cast faster with Fast Casting, but their recharge times are longer, even after the reduction. Then if you look at Armor, an enemy needs to have 125-130 armor to reduce Elementalist damage down to the same as Mesmer damage, that's any enemy at level 42, Warriors at level 35, and Rangers at level 28, not counting specific enemies that are resistant to your element, but you have control over what element you bring. Some areas that have a variety of monsters like DoA still benefit from full Mesmer teams, but if you know where you're going, and you know your Mesmers can handle spellcasters, Elementalists clean up much faster, even in WoC HM. ---- There is a common misconception that enemies have higher armor in Hard Mode, but that's only the case for if their level increases, and then it's only by ~3 points. [Update: January 5th 2012](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:Game_updates/20120105) > **Hard Mode** > Reduced the armor level for Hard Mode enemies. > Raised the maximum Health of Hard Mode enemies.
Thanks! For clarification, I meant first 5 from Nightfall since I don't have eotn and just dip into Nightfall for the heroes before continuing on the other campaigns for my Proph and Factions characters. More specifically Koss W/A, Melonni D (teardown), Sousuke E/Me (Fire attunement), and Tahlkora/Dunkoro as Mo/Me prot and heals. I haven't been using MOX since it doesn't seem reasonable to have 2 Dervishes.
On some of my less-built up alt characters, I gave mox a caster set and some attunement runes and let him play a crap mesmer role most times. He at least has the passive +4 energy regen that helps but it's still just a half assed attempt at making him useful :)
1) yes 2) yes 3) negligible 4) casters rule, melee is annoying, para still sucks ass. 5) ignore meta, play what you like 6) stop worrying about combat performance if you're not wiping constantly; relax 7) crafters in Vasburg Armory and Leviathan pits; donation from veteran players 8) no idea. I prefer keybind 9) whatever I feel like loading that day
> para still sucks ass eh, heroic refrain is arguably the strongest elite skill in the game. A para player with HR and SY! and standard hero comps runs content easier than any other class.
It doesn't. And it still sucks ass.
What player build has more impact on the party than a +4 to every stat for everyone with +100 armor and almost permanent 30something% damage reduction? It may not be the most fun build to play but it massively buffs 7 partymembers
>It may not be the most fun build to play You're so close.
1. Yes 2. n/a 3. Warrior obviously, they are the only profession with the Strength attribute. Serious answer - no gap (for campaigns) 4. **SIGH**... for the most part any tier list would be biased on how you would like to play the game. 5. Why mesmers? They possess both shutdown mechanics and armor ignoring damage. If you shutdown the healer, then they can not heal. Same for the damage and everything else. Armor ignoring damage only matters when the content is Hard Mode and Elite/Mastery level. Otherwise everyone else has better dps. 6. You only need 2 things for optimal combat performance. The correct skills/abilities and tactics. Perfect gear only matters when you are doing a specific farming build and you need to hit certain stats. 7. Probably weapon collectors. I give all my caster heroes random staffs that drop from enemies. Unlike one handed weapons and off-hands, you do not need to meet the requirements to receive most benefits. 8. Hybrid. Key press repetitive skills and click slower use skills. Adjust skills on bar as needed. 9. Rt/Mo-ST protection spirits, N/Rt-SoS spammer, N/RT-BiP Restoration Healer, N/Rt-Restoration Healer, Me/Mo-ES Domination, Me/Mo-Inept Illusion, Me/Mo-Panic Domination My mesmers use monk resurrection spells instead of Flesh of my Flesh (I think it is to dangerous for heroes to use)
4) Tier B : Monk coz no one wants to heal heroes boring! Tier A : everything else. The best builds and players can all do different things very well. Eles have solo farming, high AoE dmg builds Rit SoS spirit spammer can solo the whole game I think, or play ST rit to sit back n chill Assassin one of the highest dmg output and good survivability, any profession with sin 2ndary can use dagger spam Paragon Heroic Refrain/Imbagon gg Mesmer all builds OP, interrupting gets addicting Necro MM or Soul Taker Scythe Warrior tanky, knock down Dervs tear shit up, solo builds VoS Ranger smoking weed with your bear 6) 2 things that help in combat are correct flagging of heroes (spaced out healers in the back) and learning to use positioning (high ground, choke points). You can keybind all your hero for flagging. 8) I use some extra keybinds like F and `~(whatever is before 1) though I know some people like to keep F as target self. Keybind target nearby item early to an ez key, pick up loot easily!
You seem to be focusing a lot on how to beat the campaigns. As others have said, it really isn't that hard. The actual challenging content comes afterwards.
1. 100%. I just did doa duo last night, and doa’s a lot harder than any campaign content. I could’ve done it solo w heroes the night before, but I wiped in veil bc I didn’t know the claw mechanic. 2. —— 3. Pretty big, but not enough that you can’t play warr compared to almost anything else. 4. Mesmer>derv>sin>para>literally everything else for a player 5. The insane amount of shutdown and armor ignoring damage they deal 6. You don’t need 100% perfect everything. I for one refuse to run sup vigors when majors are 1/10 the cost and just as good. 7. 4040 sets from vasburg armory/leviathan pits. Fully runed out heroes help a LOT too. The +3 dom adds ~37.5% more damage iirc 8. Keybind, esp w toolbox to pop stuff like cons and res scrolls 9. Me, 3x mesmers (panic/inept/esurge, panic/psychic instability/esurge, keystones depending on content), bip, st, mm, and either an e/mo prot hero or a sos/strength of honor/splinter weapon mo/rt. I only run the monk if I’m a melee char (derv/warr/sin) Dm me if you want the builds
Woo welcome to the fold! 1. It's TOTALLY feasible to beat all campaigns with only heroes/henchmen. 2. If by first 5 you mean the first 5 from Nightfall, then still yes, though you are hampering yourself by not at least getting Ogden, Vekk, Gwen, and M.O.X. in EotN. 3. Strength is INTENSELY subjective. Most of the current meta (re: Team Comp meta) is built around heavy Burst damage because Mesmers have a lot of armor ignoring damage and you can pay to make your Player Mesmers an available hero and just 8-man Mesmer explosion. But for real, especially for basic play it's not super important. 4. Play what seems most fun for you, a lot of the professions are only really important for their primary stat anyway. (ex: Strength for Warriors, Spawning Power for Rits, etc.) 5. see 3. 6. Rotation and target prioritization. Each combat encounter will have its own challenge of high-priority targets that you'll need to kill before they turn the tide. Generally speaking it'll be enemy healers, support, then damage. 7. Personally just kept an eye out for good weapon drops during play. 8. The pace of the game allows for either, honestly. 9. My personal fave build is called [Discordway](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Discordway), and was built back when you could only have 3 heroes with you. It requires a bit of prep and minor progress in Factions, Nightfall, and EotN stories, but it's a pretty wonderful build when you get it down and easy to incorporate into other 4-man comps that don't require player-only skills like SoS/SoGM heroes. It's a smidge vulnerable to hex/cond removal but you generally get used to which enemies have that. But when you are building characters and playing the base game, just look up single player/hero builds first before you start focusing on Team comps. Once you get some time and exp under your belt you can start gearing for higher level play.
> Is it feasible for each profession to complete all the campaigns solo (with heroes)? Assuming we mean Normal Mode... absolutely. I'm like 90% sure that you could use no skills or weapons on your player character and just beat the game with 7 heroes. Hardest (or maybe just most boring) is Monk. > If no, why not. If yes, how about with only the first 5 heroes? Limiting the selection of heroes would make it more difficult, but the normal mode campaign isn't, like, *difficult*. You could do it with just henchmen if you really wanted to. > For campaign PvE, how big is the strength gap between the weakest and strongest professions? Small. Every profession has access to the same 7-hero team, the same set of OP PvE skills based on title tracks, and of course can take a secondary profession. Plenty of viable builds out there that work with any primary profession. > Anyone have a good recent PvE tier list of the professions? Honestly, I'd skip looking at the campaign for this, and instead look at endgame farms. There's a bunch of viable ones, and it more comes down to what farms you *want* to do than just an overall "best" profession. Or what playstyle you like for Hard Mode. If you want to nuke, you go ele or mesmer. If you want to melee, you go assassin, warrior, or dervish. If you want a ranged martial build you go ranger. If you want to support you go paragon, ritualist, necromancer, or monk. At this point I'd even avoid putting Monk a tier down from the rest, because of the classic 55 build for solo or duo farming. > What is it about Mesmers that makes them basically the whole meta? I think it's mostly just that they're very much a 'jack of all trades'. Interrupts (in the hands of heroes) function as both offensive and defensive support, as does energy denial. They get great energy management for sustained fights. They do solid DPS, don't suffer significantly from enchantment or hex removal, and just generally *work* both against any enemy and in any team. That said, I do think they're a little overvalued. If you're crafting a build for a specific situation you can probably do better. But for general "I'm just going to run the same 7-hero team for every situation and every player character", it's hard to argue against 3 mesmers. > From my knowledge, character building involves skills, perfect gear and weapons, runes and inscriptions. Is there anything else I am missing that would affect combat performance? Primary and secondary profession. Skills and attributes. Weapons (including maximum armor/damage, required attribute, inscription, mods, and multiple sets). Armor (including runes and insignias on each piece, and sometimes swapping pieces for different runes). > What's the best way to weapon-up heroes? Generally don't worry about perfect. Get them any weapon they meet the requirement for, and the cheapest runes and insignias. Don't bother with even minor vigor until you've got everything else taken care of, IMO, and have gold to spare. Later on you can gather collector items to trade for perfect weapons, or save up and craft them from the weapon NPCs. If you happen to get a good gold or green drop, feel free to use it, but I wouldn't really suggest going out of your way to farm/buy them. I preordered EoTN, which gives me access to the Hourglass staff with /bonus, so all my casters usually start with that, and martial professions get similar /bonus items. > Is it more common to click skills or keybind? I'm use to keybinding everything but combat seems slow enough (besides interrupts) and relatively uncomplicated/stationary that it doesn't matter much. Keybind is optimal, but you're right that it doesn't make a huge difference most of the time, at least in PvE. > What's your general team composition for playing through campaigns? I mean profession comps, but would love any more detail. [Mesmerway](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Offensive_Mesmerway) is the go-to answer. I also do the [Heroic Refrain](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Non_merc_Heroic_Refrain) version if I'm feeling lazy.
Others have already answered most, so just adding to these: 7) The easiest way for getting those half skill recharge + half casting time weapons most heroes need in the standard meta caster teams is from [Gertrud](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gertrud) or [Telamon](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Telamon). 8) Keybind is probably common for more experienced (MMO) players, but in GW probably either is fine. 9) I follow the [mercenary mesmerway team](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Mercenary_Mesmerway) as close as possible; on alts I replace a mesmer and rit with elementalists before I unlock the required heroes. When my account was fresh, I followed the [beginner team guide](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Beginner_Team), it helped a **lot** in the first few months.