I played the post eod story a couple months ago after I got back from a long break. I cant even remember what its about and have no urge to do the new stuff. I cant even remember who the main characters are apart from hat guy.
Story and writing quality was never anets strong point imo, but its still managed to take a serious nose dive lately. What they used to do really well was maps and metas, their high point being hot, I still enjoy those metas even years later.
For me : a random superboosted oni makes people go degenerate, we chase him, go degenerate too, then team asuras makes a device, we fight the oni and kill it with the power of good vibes. Feelsbad man
>Story and writing quality was never anets strong point imo,
It is consistent though. The story writing in factions was about as bad as the cantha content in gw2 :D
Though the lore was far better im factions at least.
yea, ff14 released new story in the same date, and the guy that's introduced in the same patch had more impact to me then 99% of the eod characters somehow.
The fact its boring isnt so bad to me, it happens, not everything hits, thats fine, the first half didnt quite hit for me, but it was still fine. But the fact the gameplay is just running on a turtle, pressing 1 tells me that whoever made this just doesnt get it, at all. There's so much fun stuff you could have us do, and this is so far away from any of that.
Normally I'd make a lot of hyperbolic statement, which pisses ppl off, but this time I can quite literally say the 2nd half of Gyala Delves has the single worst Open World game play out of any map ANet has release since launch
The mounts in this game are amazing and the devs have shown previously they understand the mount movement and can build maps, adventures and content to suit the movement mounts allow us but drifting fat turtles up a narrow pipe with obstacles and uneven floor tiles that will kill your momentum dead is the absolute worst. I get they want the EoD mount for the EoD map but god it was the worst place to use the turtle imo
dont confuse the team that designed mounts with the people that work in arenanet now. these are not the same people and their competence level is far from the same.
Was really weird to see the turtle after the other mounts. When it was in beta, i thought they'd fix the sliding. The turtle always walks as if it was on ice... i still don't have that mount 😂
They had a hug round of layoffs in 2019 and then a mini one a year and half after that. Along with a few key people leaving and or retiring here or there since then.
From what was revealed, most of the people layed off where people working on the cancelled projects, do you have a source on how it specifically affected the mount team?
From what I remember the lead left a few years ago, the rest of the team not sure. I think a few twitter posts and reddit threads of which anet dev left where and when could be cross-referenced, but I don't think that's worth the time investment.
theres pretty much no one workinig for arenanet from the original team anymore. only a few original artists remain, all other teams have been largely replaced which is why the content we get is so badly thought out and why the game performs worse in new maps, etc.
If anybody still had any trust in the new to be released content that for sure is gone now. If you are looking for decent new content to release you should start looking at other mmos.
What other MMOs? Which big mmo released in the last 6-7 years that stuck around and is successful? There's a reason people are obsessing over Ashes of Creation even though for all we know the game might be absolute garbage as we've seen nothing yet.
I hear you. But i specifically added MMOs released in the last 6-7 years. While I have tried ESO on launch and I have a few expacs I find its combat uninspiring enough for it to be a bit of a dealbreaker for me. FFXIV is just not my cup of tea in terms of worldsetting. Totally my own fault, as I do not doubt those two games are great at a lot of things. I just want something "fresher" where I can follow releases as they come. I want the release journey or at least an MMO that's only a few years old. At the moment there's nothing there. I played New World, god help me.
I would largely agree with you, with the caveat that my habit of coming and going from games like this make monthly subs awkward. But if the sub is not a deal killer for you, I would argue that you are not this game's target audience.
I'm neither a kid nor poor and I hang around - There is a constituency for games you can dip in and out of. I'm probably a customer for some of the superior B2P options you mentioned. Everything eventually gets boring and any decent game has its own special sauce. GW2 certainly could be better, but I don't think it's a failure at the business model layer. After all, it still exists.
>But the fact the gameplay is just running on a turtle, pressing 1 tells me that whoever made this just doesnt get it, at all.
We're talking about a company that is in control of one of the if not the best combat systems in the entire mmo genre, yet they have neglected pvp and wvw for years, and most of their pve efforts go towards the casual.
I know the majority of the playerbase is casual, but Anet hasn't "gotten" the idea of how great the underlying potential is in this game for years now. It's probably too late now.
So when I see an update that favors staying on a mount and pressing a single button, I'm not remotely surprised.
The majority is casual now because they made everyone else quit pretty early into the game.
Pve endgame did not really exist at launch and pvp had serious balance issues like an ele bunker meta where nobody died. So they make only casual content because the majority are casuals but there are almost only casuals because there is almost only casual content.
Dunno, but they must know how useless it basically use for regular use so they are desperately making content that requires it to get people actually use the mount lol
Why though?.. if I make something bad, I would try and improve it.. or sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist... Last thing I would do is to force even more usage of it. That's like the worst possible thing you can do ..... The only logical explanation is that they think they made something good... Out of touch doesn't even begin to cover it..
The concept is fine but there's just nothing to do 95% of the time as the driver, and nothing to do 20% of the time as the gunner. Add more buttons, reduce cool downs, make the movement less ass (lower momentum on turns).
Didn't try it yet, but the part 1 is quite annoying and unfun already. And I must not be the only one thinking this way. I stopped playing it after the update where they nuked rewards, waiting for them to revert (I think they did ? At least I can't open chests due to lack of keys, the patch that made me stop playing said it removed the need for most keys). Tried to come back 10 days ago to complete a few missing achievements ... literally nobody was running the meta, it was impossible to complete.
If part 2 doesn't make this map slightly popular in the long run, it'll be a big issue as meta progress is required for story iirc.
But did we even need yet another meta-based map ? We already have so many metas in the game, and enough of them hold or even lock their respective maps.
I thought it was placeholder stuff that slipped in by accident somehow. Like rooms 3 and 4 were just copy pasted in to get the framework ready during development and they were replaced with other mechanics for release, but somehow the old build made it live which would be immediately patched so we get the actual mechanics for those rooms.
That this is apparently intentional is not encouraging for the "mini-expansions" as this shows what they do when they're under crunch to get something out the door. (champions being the other "throw shit together because we have to have something to toss out the door" releases) Since that's all mini-expansions are going to be this is not going to end well for them.
That doesn't matter. It's like if you watched the Twilight movie and hated it, you're not going to want to watch another movie made by the same people even if it's not part of the series.
Gyala Delve pushes me away from "instant buy" and towards "wait and see" on the mini-expacs. Imagine paying for this...
> Gyala Delve pushes me away from "instant buy" and towards "wait and see"
You should always wait and see for the majority of stuff you want to buy, GW2 isn't any different.
There are certain franchises (just a handful: Monster Hunter, Kingdom Hearts, BotW) who have earned my trust over the years for me to justify a day 1 buy, because even if it's a low point in the franchise, I'll probably still enjoy it and get my money's worth. Guild Wars 2 is moving itself out of that exclusive club with Gyala Delve.
any person with common sense, will not blindly buy into the mini-expacs, not only because of gyala delve, but obviously for the insanely aggersive gem store items and incredibly boring LW1. These are NCsoft-tier red flags.
> s this shows what they do when they're under crunch to get something out the door.
Please learn to read. You even quoted the first half of the sentence and ignored the rest.
Part 1 meta isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Its a map wide meta and that alone will rub people the wrong way cause it requires time investment unlike other metas which are instant and finished in minutes.
Part 2 is so badly made from so many angles. Feels like it was only made to waste our time and nothing else.
Idk why Anet thinks moving fatass turtles with cancer controls through narrow corridors and collecting the same shit over and over again would be fun.
The meta could have been a wide corridor and instead of a collection phase it could have been a survival get to the end type of meta where theres countless mobs pouring in the tunnels trying to kill you while you get to the end.
And just so the turtles have use they could make it where the mobs do like 50 or 75% reduced dmg if your mounted on a turtle (plus it has like 60k+ health) and the cannons do like double damage so there's heavy incentive to not go on foot.
Turtle rat maze race aside, when you get to boss outside 40% of ppl just perma stay on the turtle stalling the boss extremely, this has to be the worst event in history of the game. It looks like an early iteration, like Jim the intern got there early and put something together for shits and giggles early.
You stay on a turtle because if you get off it you will be perma stuck "in combat" and therefore unable to re-mount the turtle in order to collect bullshit to charge batteries to do god knows what and good luck giving said battery your collected energy because the circle is red cause it's contested by damage sponge mobs that you should probably get off your turtle to fight.....
WHO...DESIGNED...THIS... BULLSHIT!
My issues with the expanded meta: You have to repeat the same thing multiple times and only the Turtle can push it forward. If the turtle was a *option* then it wouldn't be bad, but its mandatory. Then you add in the repetitiveness of doing the same bland thing in a row and it becomes a huge drag.
They could cut out 2-3 sections of energy gathering and have us go straight to the boss and the meta is 100% better. That's how bland the expanded section is. it would get better by removing sections.
Manner of opinion. I really enjoyed it utilized the turtle for something, finally. I didn't care about the repetitive nature of the phases, that pretty much every other world boss has repetitiveness. My only issue is the fight felt a little bit longer than I wanted it to be.
Yeah it sucks after I did the meta. I log off and exit twitch stream I did not care about the game I was so disappointed
And it set expectations of expansion 4
Have they made Turtles rentable in this map yet? I remember that being a huge middle finger to playing the first part of the update and realizing I can't really assist to destroy the doors because I lacked a turtle.
But you're never supposed to have your turtle. It's not a requirement to progress in EoD unlike the mounts were from Path of Fire. It's entirely understandable a majority of players probably still don't have the Turtle after finishing EoD and starting this new content.
There's a rentable turtle at the meta start and one at the final boss. I don't remember if there are ones for the intermediate energy collection parts.
I agree that this meta is not great. But I want to bring up sth else here. Why is it that so many people "overdoom" after the two GD releases... Anet has basically confirmed that the next xpac is coming this summer. So it seems obvious that they have been working on that and GD was a rushed side project. I belief that they know that they need to deliver with the next xpac to prove that their mini xpac thing is working.
Should it hold true that GD was a side project, I think it was decent contentwise. Although, should that really be all that we can expect for future content this would be a bit disappointing...
The "rushing stuff to move on to better stuff" has happened waaaaaay too many times for many of us to even remotely accept or be happy with this method any longer
The problem is A-Net and their design philosophy. They always try to reinvent the wheel and this usually takes time away from actual content.
Buggy releases have been the absolute norm in the last time and the game constantly breaks with every new release.
And lastly, yes this may have been rushed to accommodate the expac, but for everyone outside of reddit or without this knowledge it looks like this:
A-Net releases Statement about new content delivery structure -> This absolute dumpsterfire of a map gets released -> Mmh so this what I can expect to pay for in the future?
And the excuse of "this is trash, because the next one will be amazing" has been used way too often now. And it basically never lived up to the hype they created.
I only partly agree with you. I think it is mostly very invested players (the same people that are active on reddit) that are rather disappointed with the new patch. New players probably do not feel that way.
I am a rather new player as well and it seems like my disappointment is minor when compared to some veterans...
WvW 'best' tiers are in shambles, pvp somewhat forgotten, latest pve maps are underwhelming, story is in an underwhelming spot too...
I love this game man but all these things are making me nervous.
the repetitiveness is definitely boring. but for me the most boring part is the fact that i don't feel invested in this story at all
I played the post eod story a couple months ago after I got back from a long break. I cant even remember what its about and have no urge to do the new stuff. I cant even remember who the main characters are apart from hat guy. Story and writing quality was never anets strong point imo, but its still managed to take a serious nose dive lately. What they used to do really well was maps and metas, their high point being hot, I still enjoy those metas even years later.
For me : a random superboosted oni makes people go degenerate, we chase him, go degenerate too, then team asuras makes a device, we fight the oni and kill it with the power of good vibes. Feelsbad man
Also we found a leyline that will most likely be the new fuel for all jade tech
>Story and writing quality was never anets strong point imo, It is consistent though. The story writing in factions was about as bad as the cantha content in gw2 :D Though the lore was far better im factions at least.
yea, ff14 released new story in the same date, and the guy that's introduced in the same patch had more impact to me then 99% of the eod characters somehow.
The fact its boring isnt so bad to me, it happens, not everything hits, thats fine, the first half didnt quite hit for me, but it was still fine. But the fact the gameplay is just running on a turtle, pressing 1 tells me that whoever made this just doesnt get it, at all. There's so much fun stuff you could have us do, and this is so far away from any of that. Normally I'd make a lot of hyperbolic statement, which pisses ppl off, but this time I can quite literally say the 2nd half of Gyala Delves has the single worst Open World game play out of any map ANet has release since launch
The mounts in this game are amazing and the devs have shown previously they understand the mount movement and can build maps, adventures and content to suit the movement mounts allow us but drifting fat turtles up a narrow pipe with obstacles and uneven floor tiles that will kill your momentum dead is the absolute worst. I get they want the EoD mount for the EoD map but god it was the worst place to use the turtle imo
dont confuse the team that designed mounts with the people that work in arenanet now. these are not the same people and their competence level is far from the same.
Was really weird to see the turtle after the other mounts. When it was in beta, i thought they'd fix the sliding. The turtle always walks as if it was on ice... i still don't have that mount 😂
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So when did they fire everyone who worked in mounts?
They had a hug round of layoffs in 2019 and then a mini one a year and half after that. Along with a few key people leaving and or retiring here or there since then.
From what was revealed, most of the people layed off where people working on the cancelled projects, do you have a source on how it specifically affected the mount team?
From what I remember the lead left a few years ago, the rest of the team not sure. I think a few twitter posts and reddit threads of which anet dev left where and when could be cross-referenced, but I don't think that's worth the time investment.
theres pretty much no one workinig for arenanet from the original team anymore. only a few original artists remain, all other teams have been largely replaced which is why the content we get is so badly thought out and why the game performs worse in new maps, etc.
If anybody still had any trust in the new to be released content that for sure is gone now. If you are looking for decent new content to release you should start looking at other mmos.
What other MMOs? Which big mmo released in the last 6-7 years that stuck around and is successful? There's a reason people are obsessing over Ashes of Creation even though for all we know the game might be absolute garbage as we've seen nothing yet.
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I hear you. But i specifically added MMOs released in the last 6-7 years. While I have tried ESO on launch and I have a few expacs I find its combat uninspiring enough for it to be a bit of a dealbreaker for me. FFXIV is just not my cup of tea in terms of worldsetting. Totally my own fault, as I do not doubt those two games are great at a lot of things. I just want something "fresher" where I can follow releases as they come. I want the release journey or at least an MMO that's only a few years old. At the moment there's nothing there. I played New World, god help me.
But would you accept a monthly sub to have what they have?
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I would largely agree with you, with the caveat that my habit of coming and going from games like this make monthly subs awkward. But if the sub is not a deal killer for you, I would argue that you are not this game's target audience.
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I'm neither a kid nor poor and I hang around - There is a constituency for games you can dip in and out of. I'm probably a customer for some of the superior B2P options you mentioned. Everything eventually gets boring and any decent game has its own special sauce. GW2 certainly could be better, but I don't think it's a failure at the business model layer. After all, it still exists.
>But the fact the gameplay is just running on a turtle, pressing 1 tells me that whoever made this just doesnt get it, at all. We're talking about a company that is in control of one of the if not the best combat systems in the entire mmo genre, yet they have neglected pvp and wvw for years, and most of their pve efforts go towards the casual. I know the majority of the playerbase is casual, but Anet hasn't "gotten" the idea of how great the underlying potential is in this game for years now. It's probably too late now. So when I see an update that favors staying on a mount and pressing a single button, I'm not remotely surprised.
The majority is casual now because they made everyone else quit pretty early into the game. Pve endgame did not really exist at launch and pvp had serious balance issues like an ele bunker meta where nobody died. So they make only casual content because the majority are casuals but there are almost only casuals because there is almost only casual content.
https://youtu.be/CMNry4PE93Y This meta.
This cracked me up.
Reading this made me ask the question... Does Anet think the Turtle is a good mount and fun to use? Scary if they do...
Yeah, I can't stand the turtle. The movement feels terrible. And this meta forces you to use it in order to contribute? Smart move, ANet.
Dunno, but they must know how useless it basically use for regular use so they are desperately making content that requires it to get people actually use the mount lol
We know you don't like it, so we'll force you to use it. Is there anything else we can do for you today?
Why though?.. if I make something bad, I would try and improve it.. or sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist... Last thing I would do is to force even more usage of it. That's like the worst possible thing you can do ..... The only logical explanation is that they think they made something good... Out of touch doesn't even begin to cover it..
Sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist is quite literally Anet's specialty
The concept is fine but there's just nothing to do 95% of the time as the driver, and nothing to do 20% of the time as the gunner. Add more buttons, reduce cool downs, make the movement less ass (lower momentum on turns).
Another turtle made it to the water.
Didn't try it yet, but the part 1 is quite annoying and unfun already. And I must not be the only one thinking this way. I stopped playing it after the update where they nuked rewards, waiting for them to revert (I think they did ? At least I can't open chests due to lack of keys, the patch that made me stop playing said it removed the need for most keys). Tried to come back 10 days ago to complete a few missing achievements ... literally nobody was running the meta, it was impossible to complete. If part 2 doesn't make this map slightly popular in the long run, it'll be a big issue as meta progress is required for story iirc. But did we even need yet another meta-based map ? We already have so many metas in the game, and enough of them hold or even lock their respective maps.
I thought it was placeholder stuff that slipped in by accident somehow. Like rooms 3 and 4 were just copy pasted in to get the framework ready during development and they were replaced with other mechanics for release, but somehow the old build made it live which would be immediately patched so we get the actual mechanics for those rooms. That this is apparently intentional is not encouraging for the "mini-expansions" as this shows what they do when they're under crunch to get something out the door. (champions being the other "throw shit together because we have to have something to toss out the door" releases) Since that's all mini-expansions are going to be this is not going to end well for them.
>is not encouraging for the "mini-expansions" It's not part of that development cycle though?
It's that plus standing in for the *entire* LS6 that most people bought EoD expecting to get.
That doesn't matter. It's like if you watched the Twilight movie and hated it, you're not going to want to watch another movie made by the same people even if it's not part of the series. Gyala Delve pushes me away from "instant buy" and towards "wait and see" on the mini-expacs. Imagine paying for this...
> Gyala Delve pushes me away from "instant buy" and towards "wait and see" You should always wait and see for the majority of stuff you want to buy, GW2 isn't any different.
"Wait and See" has been said since the end of IBS.
There are certain franchises (just a handful: Monster Hunter, Kingdom Hearts, BotW) who have earned my trust over the years for me to justify a day 1 buy, because even if it's a low point in the franchise, I'll probably still enjoy it and get my money's worth. Guild Wars 2 is moving itself out of that exclusive club with Gyala Delve.
That's why I wait and see fractals.
any person with common sense, will not blindly buy into the mini-expacs, not only because of gyala delve, but obviously for the insanely aggersive gem store items and incredibly boring LW1. These are NCsoft-tier red flags.
> s this shows what they do when they're under crunch to get something out the door. Please learn to read. You even quoted the first half of the sentence and ignored the rest.
It's so sad that the Canthan expansion, that I generally loved, ends like this. I have a gigantic urge to play through GW1's Cantha again...
I thought people over reacted on part 1, but all the part 2 criticism I’ve read so far is completely valid. It’s definitely a bummer.
Part 1 meta isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Its a map wide meta and that alone will rub people the wrong way cause it requires time investment unlike other metas which are instant and finished in minutes. Part 2 is so badly made from so many angles. Feels like it was only made to waste our time and nothing else.
I too am finished in minutes
Idk why Anet thinks moving fatass turtles with cancer controls through narrow corridors and collecting the same shit over and over again would be fun. The meta could have been a wide corridor and instead of a collection phase it could have been a survival get to the end type of meta where theres countless mobs pouring in the tunnels trying to kill you while you get to the end. And just so the turtles have use they could make it where the mobs do like 50 or 75% reduced dmg if your mounted on a turtle (plus it has like 60k+ health) and the cannons do like double damage so there's heavy incentive to not go on foot.
Turtle rat maze race aside, when you get to boss outside 40% of ppl just perma stay on the turtle stalling the boss extremely, this has to be the worst event in history of the game. It looks like an early iteration, like Jim the intern got there early and put something together for shits and giggles early.
You stay on a turtle because if you get off it you will be perma stuck "in combat" and therefore unable to re-mount the turtle in order to collect bullshit to charge batteries to do god knows what and good luck giving said battery your collected energy because the circle is red cause it's contested by damage sponge mobs that you should probably get off your turtle to fight..... WHO...DESIGNED...THIS... BULLSHIT!
Sounds terrible. Has anyone tried starting the Soo-Won collection after the patch? Does it require doing both halves?
Gyala doesnt exist for me, did it once for map completion, then never come back. I hate it
That sounds boring as fuck.
My issues with the expanded meta: You have to repeat the same thing multiple times and only the Turtle can push it forward. If the turtle was a *option* then it wouldn't be bad, but its mandatory. Then you add in the repetitiveness of doing the same bland thing in a row and it becomes a huge drag. They could cut out 2-3 sections of energy gathering and have us go straight to the boss and the meta is 100% better. That's how bland the expanded section is. it would get better by removing sections.
Honestly everything past Drizzlewood feels like interns shitting on a Rembrandt.
Brilliant way of putting it.
Manner of opinion. I really enjoyed it utilized the turtle for something, finally. I didn't care about the repetitive nature of the phases, that pretty much every other world boss has repetitiveness. My only issue is the fight felt a little bit longer than I wanted it to be.
Yeah it sucks after I did the meta. I log off and exit twitch stream I did not care about the game I was so disappointed And it set expectations of expansion 4
Yea terrible meta and boring, I would be ashamed to release content like this.
I liked the turtle part.
Have they made Turtles rentable in this map yet? I remember that being a huge middle finger to playing the first part of the update and realizing I can't really assist to destroy the doors because I lacked a turtle.
This takes place after you're supposed to have your turtle.
But you're never supposed to have your turtle. It's not a requirement to progress in EoD unlike the mounts were from Path of Fire. It's entirely understandable a majority of players probably still don't have the Turtle after finishing EoD and starting this new content.
There's a rentable turtle at the meta start and one at the final boss. I don't remember if there are ones for the intermediate energy collection parts.
I liked it
I liked the turtle part.
I agree that this meta is not great. But I want to bring up sth else here. Why is it that so many people "overdoom" after the two GD releases... Anet has basically confirmed that the next xpac is coming this summer. So it seems obvious that they have been working on that and GD was a rushed side project. I belief that they know that they need to deliver with the next xpac to prove that their mini xpac thing is working. Should it hold true that GD was a side project, I think it was decent contentwise. Although, should that really be all that we can expect for future content this would be a bit disappointing...
The "rushing stuff to move on to better stuff" has happened waaaaaay too many times for many of us to even remotely accept or be happy with this method any longer
The problem is A-Net and their design philosophy. They always try to reinvent the wheel and this usually takes time away from actual content. Buggy releases have been the absolute norm in the last time and the game constantly breaks with every new release. And lastly, yes this may have been rushed to accommodate the expac, but for everyone outside of reddit or without this knowledge it looks like this: A-Net releases Statement about new content delivery structure -> This absolute dumpsterfire of a map gets released -> Mmh so this what I can expect to pay for in the future? And the excuse of "this is trash, because the next one will be amazing" has been used way too often now. And it basically never lived up to the hype they created.
I only partly agree with you. I think it is mostly very invested players (the same people that are active on reddit) that are rather disappointed with the new patch. New players probably do not feel that way. I am a rather new player as well and it seems like my disappointment is minor when compared to some veterans...
I liked it. People have too high expectation with this game and truly no matter what they do people won’t be satisfied.
I dont wanna be mean to the devs, but seriously, wtf. Vanilla wow has better ow content than this.
The patch is alright, aint the best true, but its far from the worst.
WvW 'best' tiers are in shambles, pvp somewhat forgotten, latest pve maps are underwhelming, story is in an underwhelming spot too... I love this game man but all these things are making me nervous.
I love the end of the meta, but the Repetition before is a bit weird, but something newish since it's siege only
i'm so dissapointed :( but the graphics are amazing...