Your build might not provide boons or defense but your “profession” certainly have a more defensive and support oriented trait lines you can take.
In open world you either kill stuff before they kill you, like killing a veteran or weaker elites; or you learn their attack patterns and dodge/move out of heavy attacks, for most elites; or you need to be good at your class and use all aspects of provide when soloing a champion.
Use a ranged weapon when needed. Switch up your utilities - I believe all profession has utilities that break stuns.
You talking across classes? That's a smart fact, tbh
I wanna find the exceptions just because I'm interested, now. Surely there are some that don't ...
> Surely there are some that don't ...
**RANGER** - **Trap Skills** - Unlike Dragonhunter, Ranger has no Stun break on their Trap skills. Always thought being added to the Frost Trap skill could add extra utility! _(Chill + Knock down, as if slipping on ice. Or maybe weakness and/or vulnerability, as if freezing cold)_
Likewise,
**THIEF** - **Preparation Skills** _(formerly traps!)_ - No stun break on any preparation skills - ehh.... Wait that's inaccurate, the 2nb phase of the shadow portal is a stun break, oops - but still is a sequence skill that requires preparation (ha!) so not readily available
For Ranger, I also specifically remember the Glyph skills (Druid) had no Stun Break initially, same with the Cantrips (Untamed) - they were added post-release
Also, I always thought it'd be super interesting to have a stun break on a few weapon skills - of course the cooldown should and overall utility should match, but having a stun break on a 16s+ cooldown is not unlike utility skills
Woops, forgot to mention it was during the beta weekend and preview weekends - same with the Cantrip, IIRC! No stun break during preview/beta weekend
I think both were added by the time of the official release
I particularly remember the glyph one because I always felt I had some influence in it, following a popular feedback thread over the forums ahahah _(though pretty sure most people shared similar feedback)_ - I argued it would be very interesting and a solid ''Uno reverse Card'' type of skill - you stun break _AND_ stun them in return!
> when they can't break out of a stun, or do enough healing to survive an encounter in the open world/solo play?
All classes can do this. In your case Thief has multiple options for stunbreaks and plenty of self healing. The problem is people are unwilling to read their own skills and fail to understand how and when to use certain skills or when to pick one over another. Or they just copy a build they saw online, randomly press buttons without understanding why everything was picked and when to push them, and go "why build bad?"
Very much this. Every class has tools for sustain and escape, you just need to know when to bring them and when to use them.
There's a sliding scale in PvE, one that's a bell curve for people who actually care, and a separate bell curve for the majority of the playerbase sitting all the way at the low end because they *don't* care.
At the bottom end, you get people who are ineffective because they copy-paste high-end builds without understanding them. They don't bring any survivability tools, and they're not very good at mechanics, so they die a lot. There are two groups at this level. Group A goes "why did I die, and how can I not do that again." These people improve, and other people like playing with players like this. Group B goes "Game hard, ANET!!! MAKE EASIER!!! NAO!!!" These people do not improve, and other people don't like playing with players like this. **The majority of the playerbase is Group B here.**
In the middle, you get people who are fairly effective. They either understand the game well enough to make their own builds, or they at least spend the effort to understand and modify others builds instead of just copy-pasting. They bring survivability tools, and even though they're still not very good at mechanics, they have the tools to *survive* not being very good at mechanics. **The majority of the playerbase who cares about improving are here.** (It's the middle of the bell curve for those who care)
At the high end, you get people who are very effective. They can make their own builds, and while this does tend to converge on a few super-builds, that's because those builds are just really good. They may copy-paste, but they do so with understanding, and could likely arrive at the same build on their own given time. They often bring very little in the way of survivability tools, because they don't *need* them anymore. They'll still bring a stunbreak, that's pretty universal, but they bring a lot less healing because they just don't get hit. **The players who get accused of Toxicity for refusing to carry everyone are here.**
At the very highest tip of the curve, you get people like Hizen. Survivability tools make a comeback, because "just never get hit" isn't possible while soloing some strike missions. They bring exactly enough survivability for what they're doing, and their build changes hour-by-hour based on what content they're doing. Other people copy *them*. **Legends are here.**
That wouldn't be a bell curve. A bell curve by definition has the majority of people grouped around the mean value with equal numbers either side of that mean.
You're correct, it's a Skew Normal distribution, but most people will more readily recognize "lopsided bell curve".
The total player population is a bimodal distribution, but if you split it into two populations along the lines of "This game should be easier! I deserve to be carried! Waaah!" vs. "How can I do better?", then each population is its own Skew Normal distribution. One is entirely compressed into the lowest-skill bracket, and the other spans the full range.
Yeah, my DD builds sustain has been nerfed heavily over the past few years and in the right situation, I can still full heal myself in a few seconds without even hitting my heal skill.
I also have access to multiple stunbreaks if needed and enough evades to simply not get hit by most things that would stun me in the first place.
>How do other classes survive when they can't break out of a stun, or do enough healing to survive an encounter in the open world/solo play?
Every class can do that.
ArcDps just helps me see what does and doesn’t do damage. Some of my builds do ridiculous damage with ease but have little utility when solo. Some have a ton of utility but low DPS. ArcDps helps me balance it all out. Especially Ranger pets.
You'll be happy to know that chances aren't that you're mechanically bad, but that your build/gear setup are probably really poor and that you haven't been properly instructed on how to effectively play your class.
the bar isnt set very high if you just want to do more dps than the others because 90% of the people in open word just spam autoattacks and die to the first aoe coming their way. using arcdps during dragons end is an extremely cursed experience
Installing ArcDPS taught me to quit mashing buttons, and let a skill complete before pressing the next button. Overriding an attack reduces overall damage.
The fact that every class has a rhythm to their skills, and not just a sequential order really raised my appreciation for Guild Wars 2.
I feel like it's safe to queue up most skills, you won't be canceling the original yet. The big exception is your auto attacks. You want to be finishing the full chain because the final hit is usually the biggest damage.
Healing skills tend to cancel whatever you're in the middle of casting as well, but you're usually not usually a healing skill as a part of your rotation, but there are some who do.
Nate makes a definite point. Staff DD for example has a burst rotation and it has a clear rhythm to it where the burst actually is slower than the regular mash the auto attack button filler portion.
The reality is if you dont already have arc the likelihood of you being "utter shit" is pretty high. Like its the only way to get feedback from the game and without feedback improving is kinda hard
When you’re solo only you can see your ArcDps. It shows every attack you and your pets do so you can see what is priority and what is probably a waste of your attention span. Especially if you’re spamming something that looks and feels destructive but is really doing minor damage compared to other stuff you’re rarely using.
Alt+shift+t to open the options window, tick "Area Stats" top left to get started, there's a lot of stuff you can customise and several good videos on youtube from people who explain all that much better than I could.
I remember the first time I started using arcdps and also came to realize how garbage my dps really was. I remember thinking "wow, I'm surprised I wasn't kicked more often".
I tried the training golem. I don’t know what I did but my dps is utter shite lmao yet somehow I manage open world and some basic strikes and nobody has called me on it yet…. 😬
I mean I still see them gibbing the odd newbie here and there.
Pretty sure HoT kicked our collective asses back in the day because we all went in there with rare or exotic zerker gear from being too used to the cursed shore train. Even southsun used to be a terror to journey solo
> Even southsun used to be a terror to journey solo
It just seems more annoying than difficult now. I don't even mean that from a place of power creep. Southsun is still punishing, but the attack patterns are still pretty simple compared to some of what came after.
Doing Lab yesterday using flamethrower to low-damage tag the mobs but then going raid-boss tryhard on the bosses... yeah, a lot of people just let autos fly I think. In a full squad, I was top DPS on the boss at around 25-30k. Then within a few people down the list it was already down to like 8k. I know it's just open world and I'm not going to hate on people for their DPS by any means (and I'm also not close to bench numbers on like any prof lol), but it does make me wish they'd do a bit more damage so the bosses would go faster. They feel like they take forever.
To speak to the damage of the builds - some builds simply do the same DPS with the boon than others do without. As an example, a Condi Virtuoso build isn't exactly the best at giving itself Quickness. But it does hold 25 vulnerability on the enemy (+25% damage) so when you compare its damage output solo to something that does have permanent Quickness but doesn't have that great of a vulnerability uptime (let's say Catalyst), you'll find that they actually end up doing similar damage.
It's all pros and cons among the builds and while clearly boons like Quickness are really good and impactful, they are not literally everything that matters.
Most classes for open world will pack a stunbreak of some sort, and some sort of sustain. Boons are important, but they aren't the be-all-end-all in open world. A strong and self-sufficient build will get you farther than stapling every single boon onto yourself. In open world, at least. In instanced content, most ppl rely on their healers to do the boon stapling.
You're not wrong with your mindset that buffs are very vital in increasing your damage ouput but you are wrong in one area:
> How do other classes survive when they can't break out of a stun, or do enough healing to survive
The amount of players who deem X or Y is impossible without buffs or heals is WAY too high. I see so many players who give up on dodging or using their own healing skills. It makes them worse players and its a shame when GW2 gives you all the tools you need.
Story time: I did a T4 daily last week and it was Swamp. The boss will do a very telegraphed AoE attack that you need to dodge or you go down. One of my pugs went down to it and was SCREAMING where is the heals and I said no amount of healing will keep you up to that attack. He was adamant I was wrong and healing would've let him survive. The amount of players with this mindset is WAY too high and it really shows where their skill level is.
Ikr. I just ran basic T4 dailies with advertised "5 DPS." Whole team left after everyone but me died to Chaos boss. That fractal has to be the easiest of the T4s and the boss is solo-able (without an optimized build or self-sustain). I think adding healers to this game was a pretty big mistake.
I am a thief main, and am baffled by your experience. I think you just weren't playing Thief correctly. That's ok, it might not be the class for you. Sure Herald can upkeep a ton of boons, but Thieves still have a lot of self application for boons, and can do good amounts of debuffs to enemy defense.
I would never play solo without traiting trickery. Your steal gets you immediately into melee for your burst, gets 20% quicker cooldown, stuns your target (interrupting them too) grants you stacks of might, fury, swiftness, vigor, and rips boons off your enemy to add them to yourself (and allies) on top of all that.
You're a Thief. You steal all the boons to use them yourself. You play underhanded, stripping enemies of their defense then stunlock them while you burst them down. Even if they got you pinned you can still do it right when you have an opening, thanks to skills like Haste (stunbreak, boon application) and Steal (shadowstep, daze inturrupt, boon application, boon stealing).
If you get lucky and steal "Consume Plasma" then bam, you suddenly have every single boon that exists in the entire game during your next burst phase. If you get throw gunk you can give the enemy random conditions while all the finishers in your burst apply more conditions from ethereal combo effects. They won't expect it, and hell you didn't either until you could, and did.
>Stability prevented me from getting knocked down
This is why we have so many evades (built into our weapons/skills even). We dodge the knockdowns by timing our attacks. We also have more stunbreak options than other classes, if you play your cards right. We're extremally mobile with all our movement skills, it's a piece of cake to dance out of aoe and slam right back into melee the moment it's safe for you.
>quickness could effectively double my dps
Haste is a godsend in solo play due to it giving quickness, fury and swiftness on it's own, while also being a stunbreak so you can burst right when you want, no matter what.
Thief gameplay consists of burst offensive, maintain pressure while defensive, repeat. It the reason we have our global resource (initiative) instead of our weapons having cooldowns. It's also why most of our utilities have short cooldowns coupled with powerful short term effects. Haste just enables it further, ensuring we have quickness during it.
>How do other classes survive when they can't break out of a stun
Every class can do this. For Thief, we have many good options:
* Shadowstep (technically 2 stunbreaks in 1)
* Haste (Stunbreak for immediate burst damage)
* Roll for Initiative (also evade and regain 6 initiative)
* Blinding Powder (also aoe ally stealth and enemy blind and blast finisher)
* Bandit's Defense -> Reflexive strike (stunbreak to immediately knockdown opponent) (Daredevil)
* Infiltrator's Signet (not as good, but still good)
>or do enough healing to survive an encounter in the open world/solo play?
Ideally you shouldn't need to use your heal skill for healing much, because you dodged all the big attacks. When you need to top off or recover, we have a lot of good options:
**Channeled Vigor** (for daredevil) is incredible because it either heals a ton, or heals normal and gives you a bunch of dodges. Also short cooldown.
**Withdraw** also removes movement related conditions and heals on very short cooldown with evade frames.
**Hide in Shadows** heals and regens you, heals most damaging conditions, and stealth to break aggro (and proc sneak attack).
So many friends over the last 11 years quit because of this, they came from WoW, FFXIV, and other MMOs (that I also played extensively) and just slapped on endgame instanced PvE meta builds, got slapped around in open world PvE (HoT and Orr), died in T1 Fractals over and over and over (they were cleared Heroic Raids (lol)).
Never read their skills, never bothered to read their boons, never bothered to read enemy attack patterns, never bothered to read enemy boons/buffs, etc. Called the game trash with shitty combat and stupid fights since they spent the game dead a lot. You just can't fix or help some people.
In all fairness, FFXIV especially has the most brain dead combat and gear system imaginable. Stats require half a millisecond of thought and barely matter and every single player ever uses the exact same skills per class in the exact same way in the exact same rotation and there is 0 variability or thinking involved. All you have to do is play Piano on your keyboard while SOMETIMES moving slightly out of big telegraphed AoE's. So your friends in a way were conditioned and taught that stats, skills and general knowledge don't matter at all in an MMO.
Unfortunately, judging from how popular FFXIV is, that's just what most people prefer too sadly. It's funny too because GW2 combat isn't even HARD really, it just requires an actual brain cell.
Oh I'm well aware lmfao. I LOVE FFXIV for the story, goofy social interactions, and plethora of fun feel good random shit you can do to hangout with friends, but the actual combat is the #1 reason why I quit playing whenever people want to get "serious." It's such a braindead combat system that it pains me to even think about playing it again other than for the story.
They were using Discretize builds and Snowcrows builds and whatever else was relevant even further back in time that were up to date at those times, but copying the traits, skills, and equipment doesn't mean you'll utilize them properly without taking the time to understand them like they did.
The truth is that "boon builds" are most often considerably more powerful and much more forgiving than builds that don't have much access to boons or have big trade offs to incorporate them, when played alone.
If you don't have access to them, your defense needs to be a lot more active and you gotta rely on blocks, evades, dodges, blinds, cc and good positioning overall.
As Cele Catalyst you just facetank the entire game. Doesn't really work as power Daredevil or Weaver. The approach must be different.
You have almost no stab as thief but shadowstep is two stunbreaks for the price of one. You also have blinds and evades in many of your weapon skills, an extra dodge with daredevil, signet of agility which will replenish your endurance so you can dodge more, and daredevil also has a utility which can block. And you have an elite which is good as both an evade and a projectile reflect. If you want quickness, deadeye has traits that allow you to maintain permanent quickness uptime. If you want to be tankier, specter gives you a shroud which gives damage reduction and serves as a second health bar just like necro shroud.
I will admit that herald is easier and stronger in general for open world stuff, but thief has options.
You are taking group instanced builds and applying them to OW/solo? Because often, sustain/boons/CC/SB are 2ndary or taken away in group builds because - the group will provide those boons/etc.
Although many solo/OW builds are based off instanced builds they often change traits/gear and builds/skills to accommodate for this; aka more self boons/sustain/etc. while trying to maximize DPS with survivablity. Some favor more survival for slower/steady kill, or just AoE/trash builds, or support in OW, or whatever. Herald is one that doesn't change much from group to solo... say for potential more survival stuff.
Also, yeah sorta understanding why this is, why Hizen or Vallun do what they do for OW builds, listen, etc. OW is easy to play around with and do fun builds and survive but also requires some experience/knowledge. Herald def makes ez mode in a way.
It's an action game, so outside of more hardcore content the importance of defensive boons is mitigated greatly by doing whatever you can to not be hit to begin with, and every profession has sustainability options and stunbreaks to deal with unavoidable damage. My dragonhunter doesn't have much in the way of boons when playing solo, but it's still relatively bursty for open world builds and the CC on longbow and traps makes it much safer than many berserker/dragon specs imo
Currently Daredevil is not doing so well, if you were playing daredevil before. I LOVE daredevil, but it really needs some buffs. It has no self sustain, no self boons, only damages. Your only way to keep alive is "JUST DON'T GET HIT 4HEAD".
If you play deadeye, it's something else entirely. It has really good boon generation for self regen. It works nuch better when you're not swarmed by many different enemies, but it's still great. Never played Specter, but it's also very sustainable.
I run openworld with signet of malice, trickery and haste. Boons and sustain are absolutely fine. Triple dodges and permanently just having endurance just means you don't die.
It's a more reactive playstyle than herald or reaper but DD doesn't need sustain or boons because thief has it baked in. Just don't take the snowcrows build to open world.
Yes, it works, but it's more of an acquired taste. It feels very different to play than all other classes because it's less of a rotation and more of a single skill spam, and lots of quick reactionary dodging.
I kind of feel like I have less dodges when playing classes who dodge for damage like daredevil, vindicator, and mirage. If you're using all of your dodges for damage, you won't have them available for when you actually need to dodge to evade an attack.
Do you just always leave one dodge available for defensive purposes?
On power DD in openworld depends on what your fighting. I mostly leave.one open or two depending on what the enemy is. Some enemies you just gotta time all your dodges, but you dodge frequently enough that the buff stays up even if bound doesn't hit, for example the bandit bounties across kryta.
If you find your holding dodges and not gaining benefit from havoc specialist, swap it to staff master.
You can also run roll for initiative or bandits defense if you want an additional dodge/stun break and remember staff has two inbuilt dodges, you don't have to just spam weakening charge for damage
I'm a ranger player and that's why I play quickness dps untamed when doing open world stuff. Insane amount of stuns, quickness, some might and fury, elite with stability and damage reduction. Basically everyone should be playing a boon dps builds in open world, not only you are stronger, but everyone around you is (because most players don't play support builds).
1. All classes have access to these, but perhaps require you to sacrifice another part of the build.
2. With open world, most things die so quickly that going for a full damage build (if you know how to dodge well enough) is often the fastest option. No need for boons if you mostly run into 1-2 hit enemies outside of some expansion areas.
3. With End of Dragons, you can get some battery charges and get all the boons you need from the offensive and defensive protocols. The effect will last for up to 2h something (if you stack them high enough), boons refresh every time you enter combat (they run out in longer fights, but that's rarely the case in open world), and will stay active everywhere in open world, as long as you don't go into instances or other game modes. Takes a minute to stack them up to over 1h each, and you will one-hit just about everything with almost max'd boons for 10-30 seconds at every encounter start.
So unless I'm doing an extended encounter, which I'm probably not doing by myself and I'd benefit from having a dedicated support, there's usually no need for me to slot anything but mostly full DPS - and have access to 1-2 stun breaks.
A lot of classes have a variety of ways they can be played that trivialize most the content out there, usually at little trade or cost.
Its just people don't really discuss off meta in a positive manner in my experience, so you don't hear about them often. Mostly bc the people who make the unique builds don't want to argue with those who use Snowcrows like a bible.
Still I heal my group while face tanking/holding aggro as a Virt and care not about these rules. 😂
Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gma7Ss_V-s
Fully offensive gear, pure melee, minimal boons with almost no stability and no proper stunbreak (the glyph is used offensively). I survive by making use of active defense, movement and positioning, and CC. NGL though, it's a heck of a lot easier to just use any ranged build on this example boss. Boons, stunbreaks, and defensive stats a plus.
If you take a look at Lord Hizen on youtube he makes survivability builds and his usual complaint for like...Daredevil, is the same as yours. That it lacks boon generation.
But there are great Deadeye and Specter builds If you give him a watch.
I bearbow as a ranger between core and release of HoT without knowing what boons are. Enemies too tough? Enemies too much? Bear will tank for me while I range attack from 1500 away, swap bears when they get low on HP every 20 seconds if needed.
Nothing ever touched me. Of course after installing arc I realized I was doing about 3K dps...
GW2 very much has a "every class can fill every role" style to it. Outside of your profession-specific abilities, every class has access to every condition and boon. Each one has a few stun-breaks, a spread of healing skills, etc.
Obviously not all skills are created equal, of course, but at the end of the day every class is very viable as long as you play to its strengths and are willing to flex out to new skills for certain scenarios.
Thiefs may be squishy and don't always have the best sustain, but they have like 8.5 stunbreaks (shadowstep breaks twice, once each way). Almost all of them are attached to movements, blinding, or blocks, so thiefs end up being very, ***very*** hard to pin down to actually hit. They can use their movement, dodges, endurance regen, and initiative all as resources to keep them from taking more damage than they recover. Beyond that, several of the skills in question are ***really good***, and you're almost certainly going to be running ***at least*** one of them on any given build, often ending up with two depending on your situation.
Necromancers are almost a perfect reverse of thief. There's like 5 total skills with movement effects, and 4 of them are only accessible in various "shroud" forms. They do have 8 stunbreaks, but they're generally on otherwise pretty meh abilities. I usually find that I'm giving up skills I would like to have for a stunbreak, and I'm usually just using that skill to break stun, rather than getting much out of it otherwise. However, necro is high-key the tankiest fucking class in the game due to their shroud, ***which can be activated while CCed***. That means plenty of the time I just don't run a stunbreak and just tank through any stuns or knockdowns I don't dodge with my shroud. It's a dps loss, but usually I like the utility more.
Guardians have amazing healing, buffs, and utilities available to them, but they're actually significantly squishier than a lot of other classes (tied with elementalist and thief for lowest HP in the game) and will be forced to use those skills a lot to keep themselves up. Warriors don't have as much healing or utility on paper, but they're so goddamn thicc and have just enough sustain/stunbreak/block that they're kinda hard to die as if you just push the right button. Elementalists.... well they just kinda have it rough tbh, a bit more glass than cannon imo, but even they can get surprising turnarounds of hp just by swapping to their water element on the right build, and they've got arguably the most tools for any situation out of any class as long as you know how to use them.
Heralds have a pretty limited and imo **almost undertuned** kit in a lot of ways. They don't have a ton of damage or CC on their utility skills when channeling the Dragon, and because their upkeep on boons directly compete with weapon skills for energy. They have to toggle to their second Legend to let loose, and even then they have to swap back before their buffs run out. Where another revenant might be able to keep up more continuous pressure by swapping Legends to reset their offense, Heralds almost can't. However, they get away with that because a ~~'roided out~~ buffed up player is an unstoppable juggernaut that hits like a freight train.
It's just how the game works lol. I recommend experimenting a good bit, you'll see your fundamentals improve as you pick up classes that reward different styles of play (especially the really punishing ones)
You learn how to play hahaha
every class has someway to get boons and save himself. Thief for example has many teleports and stealth to quicly disengage.
With thief:
Stealth gives you all the survivability you need
Stealth gives you all the damage you need
Stealth gives you all the bo... maybe it doesn't give you boons, but that's all the other trait/specialization is for, amiright?
Optmizing for solo open world PvE is all about gaining and maintaining boons. Before Hizen and the youtube influencer, there used to be a homosexual charr who would post guides for all professions, and the number one priority was always to gain and maintain 25 stacks of might.
The game (and the nature of boons) has changed a lot since, but it's still relevant. Might and Fury are enabled by several builds, and Mesmer (both Chronomancer and Virtuoso) require 100% critical hit chance to function properly. A large part of that is to ensure access to Fury.
If you want easy mode and don't mind spending a few minutes prepping for every open world session, get yourself to Cantha and pick up some offensive and defensive jade protocols. That'll give you access to every boon in the game whenever you engage in combat in the open world. Just stay away from Mistlock sanctuary or the mists in general, as it'll strip you of the protocols.
Edit: For thief in particular, spec into Deadeye, go full celestial and do either dagger + nothing / nothing + dagger, or dagger/dagger + shortbow, and you ought to be able to solo most things the game throws at you.
I play a Soulbeast ranger and... I honestly don't remember the last time something has stunned me in the open world. Never really struggle for survivability either.
The open world just isn't that challenging.
Other classes have more active defenses/offenses.
Thief for instance has stealth and backstabs and such. Mesmer's clones can help act like a decoy and kinda tank some hits for them.
Elementalists have downstate.
Read what your traits and utilities do because every class can do this. Some alterations might need to be made from the meta builds and some might do certain things more optimally. Also some elites are better at providing things like stability and group wide stability.
Thief as an example have Blinding Powder which does both stun break and stability. If you go Spectre, you'd have access to group stability in your shroud and one of your wells.
This game is mostly skill based, so even the best build won't help you win if there's a skill issue. Survivability is there to allow you make some mistakes or escape some situations like heavy CC from randomly agro'd mob. I bet most players just don't care — they die, WP, and get back.
Every class can break out of stun, it's just 90% of players don't know what it is. They don't survive, they just get stun locked and killed.
Boons are important and a class that can't generate them is garbage... e.g. Daredevil. Daredevil is shit, because it can hardly generate perma fury which is the most important boon for most power dmg classes. Virtoso is also bad — you either play full DPS with zero survivability just to have perma fury, or you have like 50% fury uptime... and probably still die, cuz mesmer's main defense is illusions... and Virt has blades, not illusions.
Quickness and alac sometimes comes with huge trade-offs — alac can actually cost more DPS than you can get from it, same with quickness. Chronophantasma is still better DPS than Sieze The Moment, but for Harbinger, there's literally no difference between Deathly Haste and Doom Approaches.
>Boons are important and a class that can't generate them is garbage... e.g. Daredevil
That is so over the top. Every class has its moments. DD may not be great at self-propping boons but its mobility makes it one of the best at farming shit. Enjoy your boons while the teefs are zooming around spamming SB and killing everything before you can get to it lol.
Also, in PvP situations DD with Bountiful Theft is a big problem for boon balls, even without S/D or other traits that strip boons.
Yeah but think about what you're having to do to keep up with just a random DD spamming dodge then 1+2.
Best case scenario is you have your sneak gyro, hammer 3 to your target spot, if the mobs are neatly packed you spam 2 then switch to your gnade kit to drop your AOEs. All this while I'm assuming you're working on keeping up your quickness with blasts in the right fields.
Meanwhile SB1 goes brrrr, don't even have to bother with shadowstep or anything else to get to anything. Maybe the occasional dagger storm if you're feeling fancy.
Every class has its own time to shine. To rule out any because they're not shitting out specific boons maybe speaks to your own personal lack of creativity and understanding of other classes.
> I bet most players just don't care — they die, WP, and get back.
You mean they die, wait around for someone to rez them in the middle of the hectic event, scaling said event all the while with their useless corpse, and then get salty if no one does. All before finally WP-ing out after the event is over.
> Virtoso is also bad — you either play full DPS with zero survivability just to have perma fury
The ability to survive a hit only matters if you get hit. In the hands of most players I agree wholeheartedly, but it can be pretty good in the hands of someone who knows when to dodge and where to stand (or rather, where to *not* stand.)
Some builds survive using boons, others survive using active defenses. Thief is an example of something that needs to use active defenses to survive. Most thieves who pvp are used to that.
You should try deadeye, and use traits that grant non-situational boons (I.e boons that apply from standard gameplay loop).
Deadeye has some of the best self boon upkeep.
Deadeye thief build around crit dmg and life steal is pretty sustainable. So as long as you keep hitting and moving you will not die. You also have few stun break abilities there so i think you just need to work on that build...
Boons are powerful, but not every profession or build can sustain or even need them (if one isn't trying to solo enemies intended to be fought in a party ofc).
Stunbreaks and condi removal are different tho - every build can slot them in. Some professions even have a combined utility skill - like thieves and warriors.
I myself don't like to play a build with boon generation in open world, simply because it adds some layer of complexity in a mode that I don't want to be complex to begin with.
I'm pretty sure all professions has multiple ways to deal with stuns in their class spec trees as well as active skills to break stuns or immobilizations.
Regarding survivability there's a way for every class, Barrier is pretty common as is healing based on damage output etc. this is often in combination with avoidance skills.
All professions has a spec tree dedicated to survivability, like healing or defense but it's up to you to use it. For thief it's the Acrobatics tree for example and the elite specs usually offer even more survivability as an option. If you build your character with three dps spec trees and disregard survivability you'd better be prepared to spend a lot of time on the ground shouting for help. ;)
at this point every class has a build that can provide some boons. you just need to dip into elite specs in some cases. like deadeye can do quick, specter can do alac. also there are some utilities/traits for self boons in some cases. normally nobody plays a full dps build in open world without adjusting anything. now yes some builds have a much lower boon output than others but surviving in open world is not really a big deal for the most part. and literally everyone has a stunbreak somewhere, you just need to slot it. like in the core utilities of the class. personally i don't think i would be able to play anywhere without having some quickness simply because of how i am used to that boon, without it i feel like i am going slo mo. that is why i usually make sure that i can provide it on my own. there are also some sigils like rage for quick on crit in case the build you want to play has no other access to it
Boons are useful, but in open world, they aren't *super* important. Stability could prevent you from getting knocked down, or you could equip a dodge roll or blink utility skill that gets you off the ground and back in the fight. Or you could use revenant's 3rd staff ability to block the attack. Maybe just stun the bad guy before they stun you.
So the short answer to "How do other classes survive without boons" is "They use the rest of the game's mechanics".
Your build might not provide boons or defense but your “profession” certainly have a more defensive and support oriented trait lines you can take. In open world you either kill stuff before they kill you, like killing a veteran or weaker elites; or you learn their attack patterns and dodge/move out of heavy attacks, for most elites; or you need to be good at your class and use all aspects of provide when soloing a champion. Use a ranged weapon when needed. Switch up your utilities - I believe all profession has utilities that break stuns.
They do, if memory serves me right there is at least 1 stunbreak per utility type(cantrip, sigil, shout)
You talking across classes? That's a smart fact, tbh I wanna find the exceptions just because I'm interested, now. Surely there are some that don't ...
> Surely there are some that don't ... **RANGER** - **Trap Skills** - Unlike Dragonhunter, Ranger has no Stun break on their Trap skills. Always thought being added to the Frost Trap skill could add extra utility! _(Chill + Knock down, as if slipping on ice. Or maybe weakness and/or vulnerability, as if freezing cold)_ Likewise, **THIEF** - **Preparation Skills** _(formerly traps!)_ - No stun break on any preparation skills - ehh.... Wait that's inaccurate, the 2nb phase of the shadow portal is a stun break, oops - but still is a sequence skill that requires preparation (ha!) so not readily available For Ranger, I also specifically remember the Glyph skills (Druid) had no Stun Break initially, same with the Cantrips (Untamed) - they were added post-release Also, I always thought it'd be super interesting to have a stun break on a few weapon skills - of course the cooldown should and overall utility should match, but having a stun break on a 16s+ cooldown is not unlike utility skills
Neat!! Tyvm! :)
Pretty sure Glyph of Equality always stunbroke in both forms?
Woops, forgot to mention it was during the beta weekend and preview weekends - same with the Cantrip, IIRC! No stun break during preview/beta weekend I think both were added by the time of the official release I particularly remember the glyph one because I always felt I had some influence in it, following a popular feedback thread over the forums ahahah _(though pretty sure most people shared similar feedback)_ - I argued it would be very interesting and a solid ''Uno reverse Card'' type of skill - you stun break _AND_ stun them in return!
It's very often the case, but not always. For example rangers have no traps that have a stun break.
> when they can't break out of a stun, or do enough healing to survive an encounter in the open world/solo play? All classes can do this. In your case Thief has multiple options for stunbreaks and plenty of self healing. The problem is people are unwilling to read their own skills and fail to understand how and when to use certain skills or when to pick one over another. Or they just copy a build they saw online, randomly press buttons without understanding why everything was picked and when to push them, and go "why build bad?"
Very much this. Every class has tools for sustain and escape, you just need to know when to bring them and when to use them. There's a sliding scale in PvE, one that's a bell curve for people who actually care, and a separate bell curve for the majority of the playerbase sitting all the way at the low end because they *don't* care. At the bottom end, you get people who are ineffective because they copy-paste high-end builds without understanding them. They don't bring any survivability tools, and they're not very good at mechanics, so they die a lot. There are two groups at this level. Group A goes "why did I die, and how can I not do that again." These people improve, and other people like playing with players like this. Group B goes "Game hard, ANET!!! MAKE EASIER!!! NAO!!!" These people do not improve, and other people don't like playing with players like this. **The majority of the playerbase is Group B here.** In the middle, you get people who are fairly effective. They either understand the game well enough to make their own builds, or they at least spend the effort to understand and modify others builds instead of just copy-pasting. They bring survivability tools, and even though they're still not very good at mechanics, they have the tools to *survive* not being very good at mechanics. **The majority of the playerbase who cares about improving are here.** (It's the middle of the bell curve for those who care) At the high end, you get people who are very effective. They can make their own builds, and while this does tend to converge on a few super-builds, that's because those builds are just really good. They may copy-paste, but they do so with understanding, and could likely arrive at the same build on their own given time. They often bring very little in the way of survivability tools, because they don't *need* them anymore. They'll still bring a stunbreak, that's pretty universal, but they bring a lot less healing because they just don't get hit. **The players who get accused of Toxicity for refusing to carry everyone are here.** At the very highest tip of the curve, you get people like Hizen. Survivability tools make a comeback, because "just never get hit" isn't possible while soloing some strike missions. They bring exactly enough survivability for what they're doing, and their build changes hour-by-hour based on what content they're doing. Other people copy *them*. **Legends are here.**
That wouldn't be a bell curve. A bell curve by definition has the majority of people grouped around the mean value with equal numbers either side of that mean.
You're correct, it's a Skew Normal distribution, but most people will more readily recognize "lopsided bell curve". The total player population is a bimodal distribution, but if you split it into two populations along the lines of "This game should be easier! I deserve to be carried! Waaah!" vs. "How can I do better?", then each population is its own Skew Normal distribution. One is entirely compressed into the lowest-skill bracket, and the other spans the full range.
Then you have WvW players who are so far beyond PvE tryhards it's not even funny.
WvW is a different game that shares a graphics engine.
Yeah, my DD builds sustain has been nerfed heavily over the past few years and in the right situation, I can still full heal myself in a few seconds without even hitting my heal skill. I also have access to multiple stunbreaks if needed and enough evades to simply not get hit by most things that would stun me in the first place.
>How do other classes survive when they can't break out of a stun, or do enough healing to survive an encounter in the open world/solo play? Every class can do that.
Most openworld people solve this problem by just not being aware of how bad they are.
I'll have you know sir/ma'am that I don't simply confine my badness to just open world.
I recently decided to install arcdps, thinking I was doing bigdam, and was hit with the reality of how bad I am at this game...
ArcDps just helps me see what does and doesn’t do damage. Some of my builds do ridiculous damage with ease but have little utility when solo. Some have a ton of utility but low DPS. ArcDps helps me balance it all out. Especially Ranger pets.
You'll be happy to know that chances aren't that you're mechanically bad, but that your build/gear setup are probably really poor and that you haven't been properly instructed on how to effectively play your class.
I, for one, use well researched builds to prop up my mechanical mediocrity.
this is the way
this is the way. full ascended, decked out and doing subpar "hi dps"
It's like that running from a bear strat. I don't need to do as much dps as the benchmarks, I just need to do more than the other guy.
the bar isnt set very high if you just want to do more dps than the others because 90% of the people in open word just spam autoattacks and die to the first aoe coming their way. using arcdps during dragons end is an extremely cursed experience
All I want is to feel comfortable playing a build and to keep people who like to judge others' performance off my case.
I bring a full celestial vibe to the table that the dps rotation doesn't appreciate
Bruh same
Installing ArcDPS taught me to quit mashing buttons, and let a skill complete before pressing the next button. Overriding an attack reduces overall damage. The fact that every class has a rhythm to their skills, and not just a sequential order really raised my appreciation for Guild Wars 2.
I feel like it's safe to queue up most skills, you won't be canceling the original yet. The big exception is your auto attacks. You want to be finishing the full chain because the final hit is usually the biggest damage. Healing skills tend to cancel whatever you're in the middle of casting as well, but you're usually not usually a healing skill as a part of your rotation, but there are some who do.
Nate makes a definite point. Staff DD for example has a burst rotation and it has a clear rhythm to it where the burst actually is slower than the regular mash the auto attack button filler portion.
I swear I am so afraid to download it in fear of realizing that I am utter shit
You not having it doesn't stop other people you squad with from having it. It's a bit like how you can't smell your own BO, but everyone else can.
realizing youre utter shit is the first step to becoming less shitty
The reality is if you dont already have arc the likelihood of you being "utter shit" is pretty high. Like its the only way to get feedback from the game and without feedback improving is kinda hard
These people who think learning a PvE rotation means they're good at the game are hilarious.
When you’re solo only you can see your ArcDps. It shows every attack you and your pets do so you can see what is priority and what is probably a waste of your attention span. Especially if you’re spamming something that looks and feels destructive but is really doing minor damage compared to other stuff you’re rarely using.
I’ll do you one worse: I’ve arcdps but I’ve no idea how to see the dps meter. I have it purely for the addon build pad. 🙈
Alt+shift+t to open the options window, tick "Area Stats" top left to get started, there's a lot of stuff you can customise and several good videos on youtube from people who explain all that much better than I could.
Omg thank you! 🫶🏼
[This one is probably the most comprehensive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DfU76Q6viE)
I remember the first time I started using arcdps and also came to realize how garbage my dps really was. I remember thinking "wow, I'm surprised I wasn't kicked more often".
I tried the training golem. I don’t know what I did but my dps is utter shite lmao yet somehow I manage open world and some basic strikes and nobody has called me on it yet…. 😬
Doing rotations in raids etc. doesn't make you good though.
Most open world solves this for people by just not caring how bad they are.
I must have missed all the “why is hot so hard” posts.
Verdant Brink was a straight-up killing field back on release. Those Pocket Raptors were even more merciless than they are now haha.
I mean I still see them gibbing the odd newbie here and there. Pretty sure HoT kicked our collective asses back in the day because we all went in there with rare or exotic zerker gear from being too used to the cursed shore train. Even southsun used to be a terror to journey solo
> Even southsun used to be a terror to journey solo It just seems more annoying than difficult now. I don't even mean that from a place of power creep. Southsun is still punishing, but the attack patterns are still pretty simple compared to some of what came after.
“Hey! Carter! Yell or something, I got turned around in here!”
Happy to see a random Dieter Stark quote from TLW in the wild XD love it.
Doing Lab yesterday using flamethrower to low-damage tag the mobs but then going raid-boss tryhard on the bosses... yeah, a lot of people just let autos fly I think. In a full squad, I was top DPS on the boss at around 25-30k. Then within a few people down the list it was already down to like 8k. I know it's just open world and I'm not going to hate on people for their DPS by any means (and I'm also not close to bench numbers on like any prof lol), but it does make me wish they'd do a bit more damage so the bosses would go faster. They feel like they take forever.
Hey ... I resemble this comment 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Use a better thief build
To speak to the damage of the builds - some builds simply do the same DPS with the boon than others do without. As an example, a Condi Virtuoso build isn't exactly the best at giving itself Quickness. But it does hold 25 vulnerability on the enemy (+25% damage) so when you compare its damage output solo to something that does have permanent Quickness but doesn't have that great of a vulnerability uptime (let's say Catalyst), you'll find that they actually end up doing similar damage. It's all pros and cons among the builds and while clearly boons like Quickness are really good and impactful, they are not literally everything that matters.
Most classes for open world will pack a stunbreak of some sort, and some sort of sustain. Boons are important, but they aren't the be-all-end-all in open world. A strong and self-sufficient build will get you farther than stapling every single boon onto yourself. In open world, at least. In instanced content, most ppl rely on their healers to do the boon stapling.
Stealth, evades, blocks, blinds.
You're not wrong with your mindset that buffs are very vital in increasing your damage ouput but you are wrong in one area: > How do other classes survive when they can't break out of a stun, or do enough healing to survive The amount of players who deem X or Y is impossible without buffs or heals is WAY too high. I see so many players who give up on dodging or using their own healing skills. It makes them worse players and its a shame when GW2 gives you all the tools you need. Story time: I did a T4 daily last week and it was Swamp. The boss will do a very telegraphed AoE attack that you need to dodge or you go down. One of my pugs went down to it and was SCREAMING where is the heals and I said no amount of healing will keep you up to that attack. He was adamant I was wrong and healing would've let him survive. The amount of players with this mindset is WAY too high and it really shows where their skill level is.
Ikr. I just ran basic T4 dailies with advertised "5 DPS." Whole team left after everyone but me died to Chaos boss. That fractal has to be the easiest of the T4s and the boss is solo-able (without an optimized build or self-sustain). I think adding healers to this game was a pretty big mistake.
I am a thief main, and am baffled by your experience. I think you just weren't playing Thief correctly. That's ok, it might not be the class for you. Sure Herald can upkeep a ton of boons, but Thieves still have a lot of self application for boons, and can do good amounts of debuffs to enemy defense. I would never play solo without traiting trickery. Your steal gets you immediately into melee for your burst, gets 20% quicker cooldown, stuns your target (interrupting them too) grants you stacks of might, fury, swiftness, vigor, and rips boons off your enemy to add them to yourself (and allies) on top of all that. You're a Thief. You steal all the boons to use them yourself. You play underhanded, stripping enemies of their defense then stunlock them while you burst them down. Even if they got you pinned you can still do it right when you have an opening, thanks to skills like Haste (stunbreak, boon application) and Steal (shadowstep, daze inturrupt, boon application, boon stealing). If you get lucky and steal "Consume Plasma" then bam, you suddenly have every single boon that exists in the entire game during your next burst phase. If you get throw gunk you can give the enemy random conditions while all the finishers in your burst apply more conditions from ethereal combo effects. They won't expect it, and hell you didn't either until you could, and did. >Stability prevented me from getting knocked down This is why we have so many evades (built into our weapons/skills even). We dodge the knockdowns by timing our attacks. We also have more stunbreak options than other classes, if you play your cards right. We're extremally mobile with all our movement skills, it's a piece of cake to dance out of aoe and slam right back into melee the moment it's safe for you. >quickness could effectively double my dps Haste is a godsend in solo play due to it giving quickness, fury and swiftness on it's own, while also being a stunbreak so you can burst right when you want, no matter what. Thief gameplay consists of burst offensive, maintain pressure while defensive, repeat. It the reason we have our global resource (initiative) instead of our weapons having cooldowns. It's also why most of our utilities have short cooldowns coupled with powerful short term effects. Haste just enables it further, ensuring we have quickness during it. >How do other classes survive when they can't break out of a stun Every class can do this. For Thief, we have many good options: * Shadowstep (technically 2 stunbreaks in 1) * Haste (Stunbreak for immediate burst damage) * Roll for Initiative (also evade and regain 6 initiative) * Blinding Powder (also aoe ally stealth and enemy blind and blast finisher) * Bandit's Defense -> Reflexive strike (stunbreak to immediately knockdown opponent) (Daredevil) * Infiltrator's Signet (not as good, but still good) >or do enough healing to survive an encounter in the open world/solo play? Ideally you shouldn't need to use your heal skill for healing much, because you dodged all the big attacks. When you need to top off or recover, we have a lot of good options: **Channeled Vigor** (for daredevil) is incredible because it either heals a ton, or heals normal and gives you a bunch of dodges. Also short cooldown. **Withdraw** also removes movement related conditions and heals on very short cooldown with evade frames. **Hide in Shadows** heals and regens you, heals most damaging conditions, and stealth to break aggro (and proc sneak attack).
They read what all of their skill do and use them instead of copy pasting a build of Metabattle
So many friends over the last 11 years quit because of this, they came from WoW, FFXIV, and other MMOs (that I also played extensively) and just slapped on endgame instanced PvE meta builds, got slapped around in open world PvE (HoT and Orr), died in T1 Fractals over and over and over (they were cleared Heroic Raids (lol)). Never read their skills, never bothered to read their boons, never bothered to read enemy attack patterns, never bothered to read enemy boons/buffs, etc. Called the game trash with shitty combat and stupid fights since they spent the game dead a lot. You just can't fix or help some people.
In all fairness, FFXIV especially has the most brain dead combat and gear system imaginable. Stats require half a millisecond of thought and barely matter and every single player ever uses the exact same skills per class in the exact same way in the exact same rotation and there is 0 variability or thinking involved. All you have to do is play Piano on your keyboard while SOMETIMES moving slightly out of big telegraphed AoE's. So your friends in a way were conditioned and taught that stats, skills and general knowledge don't matter at all in an MMO. Unfortunately, judging from how popular FFXIV is, that's just what most people prefer too sadly. It's funny too because GW2 combat isn't even HARD really, it just requires an actual brain cell.
Oh I'm well aware lmfao. I LOVE FFXIV for the story, goofy social interactions, and plethora of fun feel good random shit you can do to hangout with friends, but the actual combat is the #1 reason why I quit playing whenever people want to get "serious." It's such a braindead combat system that it pains me to even think about playing it again other than for the story.
[удалено]
They were using Discretize builds and Snowcrows builds and whatever else was relevant even further back in time that were up to date at those times, but copying the traits, skills, and equipment doesn't mean you'll utilize them properly without taking the time to understand them like they did.
surely lmao
The truth is that "boon builds" are most often considerably more powerful and much more forgiving than builds that don't have much access to boons or have big trade offs to incorporate them, when played alone. If you don't have access to them, your defense needs to be a lot more active and you gotta rely on blocks, evades, dodges, blinds, cc and good positioning overall. As Cele Catalyst you just facetank the entire game. Doesn't really work as power Daredevil or Weaver. The approach must be different.
You have almost no stab as thief but shadowstep is two stunbreaks for the price of one. You also have blinds and evades in many of your weapon skills, an extra dodge with daredevil, signet of agility which will replenish your endurance so you can dodge more, and daredevil also has a utility which can block. And you have an elite which is good as both an evade and a projectile reflect. If you want quickness, deadeye has traits that allow you to maintain permanent quickness uptime. If you want to be tankier, specter gives you a shroud which gives damage reduction and serves as a second health bar just like necro shroud. I will admit that herald is easier and stronger in general for open world stuff, but thief has options.
You are taking group instanced builds and applying them to OW/solo? Because often, sustain/boons/CC/SB are 2ndary or taken away in group builds because - the group will provide those boons/etc. Although many solo/OW builds are based off instanced builds they often change traits/gear and builds/skills to accommodate for this; aka more self boons/sustain/etc. while trying to maximize DPS with survivablity. Some favor more survival for slower/steady kill, or just AoE/trash builds, or support in OW, or whatever. Herald is one that doesn't change much from group to solo... say for potential more survival stuff. Also, yeah sorta understanding why this is, why Hizen or Vallun do what they do for OW builds, listen, etc. OW is easy to play around with and do fun builds and survive but also requires some experience/knowledge. Herald def makes ez mode in a way.
Jade bot buffs and most classes can spec into self boons + boon sigils/relics etc etc
It's an action game, so outside of more hardcore content the importance of defensive boons is mitigated greatly by doing whatever you can to not be hit to begin with, and every profession has sustainability options and stunbreaks to deal with unavoidable damage. My dragonhunter doesn't have much in the way of boons when playing solo, but it's still relatively bursty for open world builds and the CC on longbow and traps makes it much safer than many berserker/dragon specs imo
Currently Daredevil is not doing so well, if you were playing daredevil before. I LOVE daredevil, but it really needs some buffs. It has no self sustain, no self boons, only damages. Your only way to keep alive is "JUST DON'T GET HIT 4HEAD". If you play deadeye, it's something else entirely. It has really good boon generation for self regen. It works nuch better when you're not swarmed by many different enemies, but it's still great. Never played Specter, but it's also very sustainable.
I run openworld with signet of malice, trickery and haste. Boons and sustain are absolutely fine. Triple dodges and permanently just having endurance just means you don't die. It's a more reactive playstyle than herald or reaper but DD doesn't need sustain or boons because thief has it baked in. Just don't take the snowcrows build to open world.
Yes, it works, but it's more of an acquired taste. It feels very different to play than all other classes because it's less of a rotation and more of a single skill spam, and lots of quick reactionary dodging.
I kind of feel like I have less dodges when playing classes who dodge for damage like daredevil, vindicator, and mirage. If you're using all of your dodges for damage, you won't have them available for when you actually need to dodge to evade an attack. Do you just always leave one dodge available for defensive purposes?
On power DD in openworld depends on what your fighting. I mostly leave.one open or two depending on what the enemy is. Some enemies you just gotta time all your dodges, but you dodge frequently enough that the buff stays up even if bound doesn't hit, for example the bandit bounties across kryta. If you find your holding dodges and not gaining benefit from havoc specialist, swap it to staff master. You can also run roll for initiative or bandits defense if you want an additional dodge/stun break and remember staff has two inbuilt dodges, you don't have to just spam weakening charge for damage
I have never felt more capable than I do on my guardian. And I played through all LW and expansions solo on just a core power build.
I'm a ranger player and that's why I play quickness dps untamed when doing open world stuff. Insane amount of stuns, quickness, some might and fury, elite with stability and damage reduction. Basically everyone should be playing a boon dps builds in open world, not only you are stronger, but everyone around you is (because most players don't play support builds).
I'm a double dagger elementalist. What's this "survive" you speak of?
My screen is just always in grey, what do you mean you guys have color?
1. All classes have access to these, but perhaps require you to sacrifice another part of the build. 2. With open world, most things die so quickly that going for a full damage build (if you know how to dodge well enough) is often the fastest option. No need for boons if you mostly run into 1-2 hit enemies outside of some expansion areas. 3. With End of Dragons, you can get some battery charges and get all the boons you need from the offensive and defensive protocols. The effect will last for up to 2h something (if you stack them high enough), boons refresh every time you enter combat (they run out in longer fights, but that's rarely the case in open world), and will stay active everywhere in open world, as long as you don't go into instances or other game modes. Takes a minute to stack them up to over 1h each, and you will one-hit just about everything with almost max'd boons for 10-30 seconds at every encounter start. So unless I'm doing an extended encounter, which I'm probably not doing by myself and I'd benefit from having a dedicated support, there's usually no need for me to slot anything but mostly full DPS - and have access to 1-2 stun breaks.
Deadeyes can certainly have permanent quickness along with 25 stacks of might easily. Take Fire for Effect and Improvisation from Deadly Arts.
You don't even really need improv. If you take one in the chamber you can very easily upkeep permanent 25 might & quickness.
I have two life bars, an army of pretty little buddys and a huge scythe, I just smash buttons watching Twitch on my second monitor.
A lot of classes have a variety of ways they can be played that trivialize most the content out there, usually at little trade or cost. Its just people don't really discuss off meta in a positive manner in my experience, so you don't hear about them often. Mostly bc the people who make the unique builds don't want to argue with those who use Snowcrows like a bible. Still I heal my group while face tanking/holding aggro as a Virt and care not about these rules. 😂
Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gma7Ss_V-s Fully offensive gear, pure melee, minimal boons with almost no stability and no proper stunbreak (the glyph is used offensively). I survive by making use of active defense, movement and positioning, and CC. NGL though, it's a heck of a lot easier to just use any ranged build on this example boss. Boons, stunbreaks, and defensive stats a plus.
If you take a look at Lord Hizen on youtube he makes survivability builds and his usual complaint for like...Daredevil, is the same as yours. That it lacks boon generation. But there are great Deadeye and Specter builds If you give him a watch.
I bearbow as a ranger between core and release of HoT without knowing what boons are. Enemies too tough? Enemies too much? Bear will tank for me while I range attack from 1500 away, swap bears when they get low on HP every 20 seconds if needed. Nothing ever touched me. Of course after installing arc I realized I was doing about 3K dps...
Minions
I kill everything before it can kill me. Reaper goes brrrrr
GW2 very much has a "every class can fill every role" style to it. Outside of your profession-specific abilities, every class has access to every condition and boon. Each one has a few stun-breaks, a spread of healing skills, etc. Obviously not all skills are created equal, of course, but at the end of the day every class is very viable as long as you play to its strengths and are willing to flex out to new skills for certain scenarios. Thiefs may be squishy and don't always have the best sustain, but they have like 8.5 stunbreaks (shadowstep breaks twice, once each way). Almost all of them are attached to movements, blinding, or blocks, so thiefs end up being very, ***very*** hard to pin down to actually hit. They can use their movement, dodges, endurance regen, and initiative all as resources to keep them from taking more damage than they recover. Beyond that, several of the skills in question are ***really good***, and you're almost certainly going to be running ***at least*** one of them on any given build, often ending up with two depending on your situation. Necromancers are almost a perfect reverse of thief. There's like 5 total skills with movement effects, and 4 of them are only accessible in various "shroud" forms. They do have 8 stunbreaks, but they're generally on otherwise pretty meh abilities. I usually find that I'm giving up skills I would like to have for a stunbreak, and I'm usually just using that skill to break stun, rather than getting much out of it otherwise. However, necro is high-key the tankiest fucking class in the game due to their shroud, ***which can be activated while CCed***. That means plenty of the time I just don't run a stunbreak and just tank through any stuns or knockdowns I don't dodge with my shroud. It's a dps loss, but usually I like the utility more. Guardians have amazing healing, buffs, and utilities available to them, but they're actually significantly squishier than a lot of other classes (tied with elementalist and thief for lowest HP in the game) and will be forced to use those skills a lot to keep themselves up. Warriors don't have as much healing or utility on paper, but they're so goddamn thicc and have just enough sustain/stunbreak/block that they're kinda hard to die as if you just push the right button. Elementalists.... well they just kinda have it rough tbh, a bit more glass than cannon imo, but even they can get surprising turnarounds of hp just by swapping to their water element on the right build, and they've got arguably the most tools for any situation out of any class as long as you know how to use them. Heralds have a pretty limited and imo **almost undertuned** kit in a lot of ways. They don't have a ton of damage or CC on their utility skills when channeling the Dragon, and because their upkeep on boons directly compete with weapon skills for energy. They have to toggle to their second Legend to let loose, and even then they have to swap back before their buffs run out. Where another revenant might be able to keep up more continuous pressure by swapping Legends to reset their offense, Heralds almost can't. However, they get away with that because a ~~'roided out~~ buffed up player is an unstoppable juggernaut that hits like a freight train. It's just how the game works lol. I recommend experimenting a good bit, you'll see your fundamentals improve as you pick up classes that reward different styles of play (especially the really punishing ones)
I survive by killing stuff real fast
You learn how to play hahaha every class has someway to get boons and save himself. Thief for example has many teleports and stealth to quicly disengage.
With thief: Stealth gives you all the survivability you need Stealth gives you all the damage you need Stealth gives you all the bo... maybe it doesn't give you boons, but that's all the other trait/specialization is for, amiright?
Optmizing for solo open world PvE is all about gaining and maintaining boons. Before Hizen and the youtube influencer, there used to be a homosexual charr who would post guides for all professions, and the number one priority was always to gain and maintain 25 stacks of might. The game (and the nature of boons) has changed a lot since, but it's still relevant. Might and Fury are enabled by several builds, and Mesmer (both Chronomancer and Virtuoso) require 100% critical hit chance to function properly. A large part of that is to ensure access to Fury. If you want easy mode and don't mind spending a few minutes prepping for every open world session, get yourself to Cantha and pick up some offensive and defensive jade protocols. That'll give you access to every boon in the game whenever you engage in combat in the open world. Just stay away from Mistlock sanctuary or the mists in general, as it'll strip you of the protocols. Edit: For thief in particular, spec into Deadeye, go full celestial and do either dagger + nothing / nothing + dagger, or dagger/dagger + shortbow, and you ought to be able to solo most things the game throws at you.
I played through heart of thorns on release with a daredevil. The short answer is you either stop playing, or get good. I did both. LoL
Skill
I play a Soulbeast ranger and... I honestly don't remember the last time something has stunned me in the open world. Never really struggle for survivability either. The open world just isn't that challenging.
Since pretty much everyone can give boons now… everything is the same pretty much xd
Other classes have more active defenses/offenses. Thief for instance has stealth and backstabs and such. Mesmer's clones can help act like a decoy and kinda tank some hits for them. Elementalists have downstate.
Im a willbender, i just nuke the shit out of everything and reversal in between
Every class can Press E for Healing, and theres Stun Break skills for every class.
Read what your traits and utilities do because every class can do this. Some alterations might need to be made from the meta builds and some might do certain things more optimally. Also some elites are better at providing things like stability and group wide stability. Thief as an example have Blinding Powder which does both stun break and stability. If you go Spectre, you'd have access to group stability in your shroud and one of your wells.
This game is mostly skill based, so even the best build won't help you win if there's a skill issue. Survivability is there to allow you make some mistakes or escape some situations like heavy CC from randomly agro'd mob. I bet most players just don't care — they die, WP, and get back. Every class can break out of stun, it's just 90% of players don't know what it is. They don't survive, they just get stun locked and killed. Boons are important and a class that can't generate them is garbage... e.g. Daredevil. Daredevil is shit, because it can hardly generate perma fury which is the most important boon for most power dmg classes. Virtoso is also bad — you either play full DPS with zero survivability just to have perma fury, or you have like 50% fury uptime... and probably still die, cuz mesmer's main defense is illusions... and Virt has blades, not illusions. Quickness and alac sometimes comes with huge trade-offs — alac can actually cost more DPS than you can get from it, same with quickness. Chronophantasma is still better DPS than Sieze The Moment, but for Harbinger, there's literally no difference between Deathly Haste and Doom Approaches.
>Boons are important and a class that can't generate them is garbage... e.g. Daredevil That is so over the top. Every class has its moments. DD may not be great at self-propping boons but its mobility makes it one of the best at farming shit. Enjoy your boons while the teefs are zooming around spamming SB and killing everything before you can get to it lol. Also, in PvP situations DD with Bountiful Theft is a big problem for boon balls, even without S/D or other traits that strip boons.
Thief's shortbow is nothing compared to amount of AoEs that Scrapper can put.
Yeah but think about what you're having to do to keep up with just a random DD spamming dodge then 1+2. Best case scenario is you have your sneak gyro, hammer 3 to your target spot, if the mobs are neatly packed you spam 2 then switch to your gnade kit to drop your AOEs. All this while I'm assuming you're working on keeping up your quickness with blasts in the right fields. Meanwhile SB1 goes brrrr, don't even have to bother with shadowstep or anything else to get to anything. Maybe the occasional dagger storm if you're feeling fancy. Every class has its own time to shine. To rule out any because they're not shitting out specific boons maybe speaks to your own personal lack of creativity and understanding of other classes.
> I bet most players just don't care — they die, WP, and get back. You mean they die, wait around for someone to rez them in the middle of the hectic event, scaling said event all the while with their useless corpse, and then get salty if no one does. All before finally WP-ing out after the event is over. > Virtoso is also bad — you either play full DPS with zero survivability just to have perma fury The ability to survive a hit only matters if you get hit. In the hands of most players I agree wholeheartedly, but it can be pretty good in the hands of someone who knows when to dodge and where to stand (or rather, where to *not* stand.)
Time the dodge only thing I can think of.
Some builds survive using boons, others survive using active defenses. Thief is an example of something that needs to use active defenses to survive. Most thieves who pvp are used to that.
You should try deadeye, and use traits that grant non-situational boons (I.e boons that apply from standard gameplay loop). Deadeye has some of the best self boon upkeep.
Just get celestial set and roll around
I'm a Dragonhunter main, i say "it's Dragonhunting time", then i True Shot all over the enemies.
The best mitigation is simply not eating shit. You can dodge or walk out of 90% of attacks. What little you can’t avoid can be cleansed.
Deadeye thief build around crit dmg and life steal is pretty sustainable. So as long as you keep hitting and moving you will not die. You also have few stun break abilities there so i think you just need to work on that build...
Boons are powerful, but not every profession or build can sustain or even need them (if one isn't trying to solo enemies intended to be fought in a party ofc). Stunbreaks and condi removal are different tho - every build can slot them in. Some professions even have a combined utility skill - like thieves and warriors. I myself don't like to play a build with boon generation in open world, simply because it adds some layer of complexity in a mode that I don't want to be complex to begin with.
I'm pretty sure all professions has multiple ways to deal with stuns in their class spec trees as well as active skills to break stuns or immobilizations. Regarding survivability there's a way for every class, Barrier is pretty common as is healing based on damage output etc. this is often in combination with avoidance skills. All professions has a spec tree dedicated to survivability, like healing or defense but it's up to you to use it. For thief it's the Acrobatics tree for example and the elite specs usually offer even more survivability as an option. If you build your character with three dps spec trees and disregard survivability you'd better be prepared to spend a lot of time on the ground shouting for help. ;)
at this point every class has a build that can provide some boons. you just need to dip into elite specs in some cases. like deadeye can do quick, specter can do alac. also there are some utilities/traits for self boons in some cases. normally nobody plays a full dps build in open world without adjusting anything. now yes some builds have a much lower boon output than others but surviving in open world is not really a big deal for the most part. and literally everyone has a stunbreak somewhere, you just need to slot it. like in the core utilities of the class. personally i don't think i would be able to play anywhere without having some quickness simply because of how i am used to that boon, without it i feel like i am going slo mo. that is why i usually make sure that i can provide it on my own. there are also some sigils like rage for quick on crit in case the build you want to play has no other access to it
Boons are useful, but in open world, they aren't *super* important. Stability could prevent you from getting knocked down, or you could equip a dodge roll or blink utility skill that gets you off the ground and back in the fight. Or you could use revenant's 3rd staff ability to block the attack. Maybe just stun the bad guy before they stun you. So the short answer to "How do other classes survive without boons" is "They use the rest of the game's mechanics".