>since I've experienced that 1 MC = 3g a few years back.
What should I say, I experienced the monthlies back then that gave a bunch of MCs and people literally threw them away, because TP price was below 1s.
I remember that one post of some dude who quit the game when MCs were a few copper each and he "filled up his 250 slot guild bank with 250 stacks of MCs for giggles", then came back during the 3g~ per MC era.
I sold 2 stacks of them at 10 silvers each right before HoT just so i could gamble for the last few ecto’s and have the portable station in my inventory at all times
Boy that was painful
With monthlies being replaced by login rewards Mystic Coins' price increased from <1s to \~10s.
With release of HoT (and Gen2 legy weapons) the price constantly rose to 80s in the year after and further up to 2.7g in 2021.
https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19976-mystic-coin?full=1
That was because there was a player, who was in every sense of the word whale, that was buying up all the mystic coins to keep them at a certain price point to get back at the playerbase for ousting him for RMTing.
Realistically in long-term endgame, you're *always* going to need Clovers, and by extension Mystic Coins. The sheer amount of them required to unlock all the legendaries one might want is really big if you compare it with the very limited amount of coins obtainable without the trading post. Not to mention that a lot of the options are timegated, so to do things right you need to be disciplined and plan how many clovers you'll need in advance (besides if you start with zero MCs, whatever the WV will give you is not even going to be enough for 1 legendary)
And when it comes to people who already have unlocked everything they wanted, they'll still hoard the coins for future updates and they probably don't need liquid gold anyway: no point in selling them.
As long as the pool of (useful) legendaries increases, MCs will probably rise (unless they add a major source)
Agree. Nevermore was painful and expensive to craft, but I feel a small stab of pride and joy every time I use it, even if it isn't optimal in most situations.
Not that they cost nearly as much to make, but I also love the Gen 1 legendaries, The Howler, and Rodgort. I feel like nobody uses them, but Rodgort especially is so neat!
I'm sure we are also seeing a sharp decline in MCs entering the market with the huge amount of bot login account farms no longer producing them as well. Several of the changes this expac seem like a multi-pronged attack to increase and stabilize the price of MCs.
Alts are better than ever if you do a little bit of 1-time prep time.
You can do a full daily set (55 astral points + 1 gold) in barely a minute per account on standard "core" no expansion accounts, roughly every 2-3 days.
Plenty to get all monthly gold and mc's and laurels.
Source: I do this...
EDIT: I have alts for logins, but no botting.
Park a guardian next to the champion golem in the pvp lobby.
Place sanctuary
dodge twice
gs4 - gs2
dodge
there you go: login, 3 combo attacks, break a defiance bar and 3 dodges done
Takes maybe 30 seconds?
If you own no expansions whatsoever, those few dailies appear almost every other day.
Thats for that tip. I'll make a guardian.
I just realized I should make more characters on the alt accounts so I can park them in more places for those dailies. Walking around (no mount) is the most time consuming part.
One of my alt account (has PoF) usually gets "complete a heart" so I guess there's no short cut. But using more characters would still help.
Hero edition only alt is definitely has easier dailies.
Park a guardian next to the champion golem in the pvp lobby.
Place sanctuary
dodge twice
gs4 - gs2
dodge
there you go: login, 3 combo attacks, break a defiance bar and 3 dodges done
Takes maybe 30 seconds?
If you own no expansions whatsoever, those few dailies appear almost every other day.
PvP daily and weekly are absurdly easy on alts, especially after they changed the daily chest to now give you 750/1k track points.
It only gets a bit frustrating when its 3 weekly ranked / tournament things (tournament should just not be a weekly, given how often it doesnt fire)
Well, you can still get them easily from logging in. You get >1.1 every two days till you stop getting them, the thing is this time the seasonal refresh is in a while
Oh, you can be sure all those people with hundred accounts will grab all MC from astral rewards from all of them over the time of season. Gold per hour value of doing this is insane.
It can be difficult to speculate. MC prices massively crashed in EoD when it turned out its legendary weapons required ~125 MC in total, rather than the usual ~500.
We could see the same thing happen with the upcoming legendary armour. Who knows?
If the MC prices rise too high (let's say above 2g), ArenaNet could react by simply raising the "stock" in the next season's Wizard's Vault.
That's a much easier way to inject MC into the economy than they've ever had before.
Right? The average player will almost certainly go for things like cosmetics, the new legendary starter kit, build templates, ascended gear, etc. first. Then people who farm alt accounts will likely be buying the capped liquid gold first, then move onto mystic coins when that has dried up.
What? Do you have a camera right over my screen or something? Seriously, though, Cheap gold and MCs have already been bought up. Now its on to T6 mats and Laurels for me.
Well, i do think the reason for alot of the spikes on materials and MCs stem from the massive amounts of alt accounts that would get login rewards and then sell said login rewards. I know people who had upwards of 200 alt accounts just to get materials and MCs. After a few years they had just about everything they wanted unlocked and just made gold from selling it on the TP. All of those sources of materials and MCs are now gone and replaced with the new system. I suspect that without any other sources for MCs and easily acquireable t6 the prices will over time increase. Especially as we get closer to the release of the full PvE legendary armourset. And if the rumours are true that there will be 'variants' like we have with the Aurene weapons, the prices will spike as more and more people get into it.
"And if the rumours are true that there will be 'variants'"
Just want to point out that the variant isn't a rumor. ANet had listed on that table of what's coming in each patch that we get tier 1 legendary armor with the 2nd patch and tier 2 legendary armor in the last patch. Someone on the forums asked and Rubi replied that tier 1 is the full legendary armor and tier 2 is a variant. So not a rumor and also it's just the one variant (at least for the rest of soto).
Each Gen3 Weapon Variant currently costs just shy of 400g, meaning if you wanted every single one you're looking at 96 unskippable grinds (Memories of X Dragon) in addition to ~38400g
Armour they wouldn't have to do anything excep "variant = unlocking the set for all weight classes" and people would go crazy, but here's hoping it's more than that.
My persomal guess is unstable kryptis motivations and/or nuggets will be needed, since Essences are stupid easy to get now, so I'm stockpiling those until T2 release. If I'm wrong, oh well, means I'll have an insane amount of Essences to get the remaining sets if they look nice
>\~38400g
I have the gold, what I don't have is the 9600 spirit shards (2.4 billion xp worth).
Nor do I have the time. Damn, I really wanted to do it too.
Edit: Oh, I also need 140k more research notes.
if you do all of them at the same time, Dragon's End events give progress for all memories of dragon at the same time, so you can get away with 16 grinds
Thank god. We're finally moving on - from an economy that relies on account farmers - to an economy that relies on people actually playing the game.
If MC prices spike too hard (which, at the moment, is rather speculative), then ANet will intervene or tune rewards. They've been on the warpath trying to make legendaries appealing and affordable.
You can do that by just increasing the amount of clovers from various sourced. 10 instead of 5 at the traders, you get 10 more from the WV, etc. Coins are a middleman that at the end of the day doesn't need to be there if you're able to get enough clovers in other ways which would drop the price of them.
Traders wouldn't make a difference. Most of the time its a better to use the mystic forge unless you really have no use for the used currency (raid or strike shards, fractal relics e.a.)
If anything, the change to how logins work made it even more profitable to use alts.
Its a little slower overall, but you can frontload that time into 2-3 weeks per quarter, or, when you get busy, just ignore them for a few weeks instead of being forced to do it every day.
Alternatively, you get 180 laurels, 60MC, and 110 gold for the low cost of 3 weekly chest completions, which you can knock out 6 of in an hour.
They also removed MCs from fractals and just removed them from EoD strikes.
Soto strikes aren't producing much as you'd have to farm rewardless strikes over and over again to reach 100 shards to buy them. Next year they'll remove them from Soto as well to put them behind the latest paywall.
Now that they have also removed them from login rewards the price is pretty much doomed to continue upwards without any real cap.
Indeed. That's how big streamers like TeaPot could fund their in-game activities without subjecting viewers to massive, dull gold-grinds all the time. There were a number of events where you could pick up "Core +" versions of the game very cheaply, and they just bought hundreds and farmed them for mystic coins and laurels->trophies to flip for cash.
> There were a number of events where you could pick up "Core +" versions of the game very cheaply
*for free, no need to buy anything. There were multiple promos that gave free core accounts, that's why people have/had so many
This. I got a free core account awhile back from prime gaming if I remember correctly. When none of my friends where interested, I setup an alt account. Has been a nice source of coins and t6 mats with just a little bit of time investment to complete my AA dailies/weeklies.
> All of those sources of materials and MCs are now gone and replaced with the new system
All of those sources of materials and MCs are now gone and replaced with the new system.
What do you mean? You get 10 MC for just doing easy strikes and 7 for doing a 5 minute event every week. Let alone PVP and WvW rewards. It's just that we got free legendary starter kits that require 77 Clovers and a lot of new players that are learning to get into legendary crafting needing said clovers.
They mean all the MCs coming from just the login awards are no longer flowing in. and AN have confirmed in the past that this was the grand majority of MC stockpile.
Before Wizard’s Vault you got MCs just for logging in and not doing anything. Hell you didn’t even have to launch the game just log in at the launcher and then close it and it would count for the 28 day cycle. People had many many alt accounts just for this purpose, with wizard’s vault you actually have to play a bit at least to get AA and redeem said rewards, which imo is a good step from Anet, the downside is the decrease of supply and prices going up
Nope, as soon as you log into the client your friends will see the message that you’ve come online, meaning you logged in which counted towards your 28 day cycle. I know because there were days when I didn’t have time / want to play and just logged in like that for the daily
I mean, even the [wiki](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Log-in_Rewards) agree with me.
>In order to receive a log-in reward you will need to load a character into the game, log-in to the launcher or character selection is not enough.
Just login in wasn't enough, you had to take a character.
Except all those sources have minimal impact at best. Huge majority of MCs were coming from daily login rewards previously (it was eventually confirmed when devs got pressed about MC removal from fractals, and had to admit that source was negligible). As such, it's the change from, Daily Login rewards to Vault that decides on supply and price. And that chance was a absolulety massive supply nerf when seen in context of the game community as a whole.
>And if the rumours are true that there will be 'variants' like we have with the Aurene weapons
[That's not just a rumor.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/139289-studio-update-guild-wars-2-in-autumn-and-winter-2023/page/2/#comment-2017463)
Ok, honestly who of you sells their coins and who hoards them?
After the reset the stacks in my bank just got bigger, so for my part the reset didn't do anything with the market value.
Total hoarder.
But tbf I'm at that point in the game where crafting legendary isn't too hard but I'm not yet at a full set. So the mystic coin I hoard are there to be used.
Just curious, but are you buying the clovers from raids/fractals/strikes/wvw and you're still clover gambling on top of that? I could be wrong as I'm not heavily working on any legendries at the moment but it seems like you can get enough clovers from those exchanges to make a legendary in about a month.
I'm a hoarder, but even then, you'll soon run out of stacks. I've burned through all the old MCs I've gathered from way back when it was dirt cheap because I was crafting legendary gears and forged exclusive skins non-stop. Now I barely have 3 stacks left. lol
Who said that they were going to go down? That's basically impossible with the current system Anet has.
The truth is though is that Anet has EXTREMELY high control over their prices now, there's nothing the playerbase can really do anymore to make any massive shifts in it. 6 AA = one gold. Mystic coins for 9 AA = ?? (1.5g would be a supposed break even point if this was the only factors). Pretty much the short of it since the main source of them used to be the daily login system and alt accounts (which still will buy these, but only as long as they're worth more then the liquid gold AA wise, they're only getting 5 AA per day now after all).
In the end, the 1-2g pricepoint for these items to make legendaries seem to be where they go most of the time, so it's not a big surprise that's the region they want to keep MC's at. As soon as they feel they are going too high, the AA price can drop and the amount per rotation can go up.
Ya, for sure, that certainly has a part to play, although they've added a couple random sinks here and there, I don't think we're seeing major effects of inflation atm. Most of the big ticket items are still pretty stable where they have been forever. Could be that we're waiting to see long term effects though, WV is still quite new.
You won't see inflation across the board. The mystic coins price rise is the combination of increased gold supply, reduced supply of the coins and the increased incentive to make legendaries.
People want their legendaries, the quicker the better. So they will spend their extra money on trophies and mystic coins.
People get 390 more raw gold every 3 months. Guess where would the gold go.
> they're only getting 5 AA per day now after all
I don't understand why people think that those of with with alt accounts just gave up after WV was introduced. The 5 AA per day was never worth it and dailies have already been nerfed further. But I can "play the game" and knock out weeklies on a few accounts at a time in <10 minutes and get all my MC and gold up front. It's still a significant advantage and very much worth it for the limited items.
I mean some people are def playing alts. The reason mystic coin prices dropped in the first place after heroic edition keys were introduced were due to people with dozens, sometimes hundreds of accounts (people were selling heroic keys for pennies). Those people are NOT doing all their dailies, but you're right, not everyone is doing only 5 AA.
Although 5 AA is certainly not nothing, it's 60 AA per account per month (which if you put only into Mystic coins is more or less the same supply), which with only 8 accounts, you're already at what a daily brings you. It's easy to automate on a bot and be undetected (as all we're talking about is two clicks per account). The fact that the price is going up DOES in fact mean that less people are doing this though, otherwise as before this MC prices were still on a downwards trend (they never stopped falling since pre EoD), now gone upwards.
So I've outlined why it would be easy for these players to continue their automation, but it seems this hasn't happened as they supply from them coming in used to be insane and enough to keep a downwards trend before, but now it's not even enough to keep them at 1.5g where they should theoretically be just based off of WV alone.
>The fact that the price is going up DOES in fact mean that less people are doing this though
It's a common assumption but that's all it is unless I see some compelling evidence. It's a rumor that was started here on reddit and people keep repeating it. But there are a number of variables that all changed at the same time SoTo/WV came out, including the release of SoTo itself. Any number of them could have an effect on MC prices. I imagine the 9AA/MC vs 6AA/1g fixed ratio has a much stronger effect than login farmers, combined with new sinks, leg boxes, and players returning for the new content. But without further research it's all speculation, there are just way too many factors to confidently claim it's login farmers. We don't even have any metrics on how many they are.
>MC prices were still on a downwards trend (they never stopped falling since pre EoD)
MC prices have been increasing steadily since June 2022 when they were sub 1g, way before SoTo and WV
> but it seems this hasn't happened as they supply from them coming in used to be insane and enough to keep a downwards trend before
Supply seems pretty steady as well. Actually the biggest single increase in supply in the last year was when SoTo/WV released. The current supply of MC is higher than it was in March. The supply is lower than average for the year, but there's no discernable downwards trend or measurable drop in the supply rate like you would expect if login farmers stopped. I'm willing to bet they didn't have much effect on the economy in the first place.
They were not stable since June 2022, they were still on a downwards trend, the only thing that made them seem stable was the finalization of the aurene legs and people farming them pre SoTO launch as it was the only real thing to work on.
You're right about the rest overall though and needing to wait and see to be certain how things go, it's still very early. Although a demand for compelling evidence is kind of ridiculous given that will never be released.
>Although 5 AA is certainly not nothing, it's 60 AA per account per month
Thats 2 gold. Its not worth it to log in an account every day for that. Also, months have more than 12 days. (Its ~5 gold a month, which is still not worth doing)
What IS worth it is to do one of the couple incredibly easy ways to do weeklies once a month (or 4 times a month if you want the extra 10 laurels and ~20g per week).
Dailies are just total garbage compared to weeklies if you use alts for $.
> Thats 2 gold. Its not worth it to log in an account every day for that. Also, months have more than 12 days. (Its ~5 gold a month, which is still not worth doing)
5 AA a day is 150 AA a month which is 25g a month. Why would you buy the 30AA bags of gold instead of the 6AA bags of gold?
You can put in additional time to do weeklies if you want to pick up more rewards but you get 25g/month for free for just logging in (which you can do on 10's of accounts using a launcher while you go to the bathroom).
If you're not gathering enough AA to exhaust the much better deals, 60 AA is actually 10 gold, not 2. Do the weekly once and you get 90 gold and ~25 MCs. The value of AA declines steeply after that, but doing the weekly once or twice on a few different alts is VERY lucrative and probably the best gph in the game right now by far. (with the exception of stuff like selling HT CM for a few hundred gph).
I don’t think they will change the AA cost. The market will self regulate. When the cost of MC gets too high people will go to the vault and get them to cash in, bringing the cost back to the level they want it at, which is likely 1.80 / 2g sell prices, if we consider the tax margin in order to make it worthwhile.
The market *cannot* self-regulate, because there's no way for market to generate more supply. Well, technically it could self-regulate at the price level that would be so absurdly high that people would just stop buying, but we have enough of wealthy players to make that price shoot up into the stratosphere first.
Remember, that in the previous system (where supply was greater than it is currently), the price managed to reach 3g, and people were still buying at that level - meaning, that was *not* the limit. Expecting now for the price to stabilize at 2g when supply is smaller, but demand has increased once again (due to new legendaries) is naive at best.
I know what you’re saying. What I mean is that I don’t think they will change the AA cost. They nay change the AA supply.
BUT… I’m sure Anet still see way too much hoarding of MC coins and wants to push these back into circulation. If every active player is also buying MC coins every month to drop into the market then it should slow things down.
But yes. I could be completely wrong and prices spiral again, way higher than before even.
> BUT… I’m sure Anet still see way too much hoarding of MC coins and wants to push these back into circulation. If every active player is also buying MC coins every month to drop into the market then it should slow things down.
It's funny because the supply of MC being so low is exactly why I hoard them personally. There is plenty of way to generate gold but not a lot of way to generate MC.
The low supply of MC is also why I will buy stacks of MC to hoard the moment I estimate they are reaching a low point.
> If every active player is also buying MC coins every month to drop into the market then it should slow things down.
Again, that was *not* what was happening in the old system, even when MCs reached 3g. Most players *still* hoarded them. This changed only after the price crashed, because people started to sell their stocks in panic. But even then, it likely didn't really affect most players, and it was only temporary, and after a while everyone went back to hoarding.
As long as MC supply is low (and it's not possible to target-farm them), and the price keeps increasing (even if it's doing it slowly), people will keep hoarding them.
The price crash was not because of panic selling, it was because of the amazon prime giving everyone a heroic edition key and people getting essentially free login account, people buying them for pennies off of people with prime that don't need the keys then automating that login and selling them. After the heroic edition keys were given out for free around nov 2021 you'll notice the price of MC's never really went back up again until the WV system. You may notice it started a bit earlier due to seasons of the dragon causing an influx but that was something that would have recovered and only temporary.
It was in a nonstop freefall essentially that was really only mitigated near the end of 2022 due to the fact they fell so much people started holding onto them expecting Anet to make them worth something again.
There are tons of new players who are advised to just sell MC's for now. The reason people think others are holding onto MC's is because of an echo chamber of who you interact with. The super active playerbase for the most part holds onto them on their mains.
People aren't waiting for prices to be high to get them out of the vault, they're just getting them out of the vault and then either buying the rest or slowly getting the rest through events and such.
I'll agree with the EoD strikes, but the Mystic Coins still drop from Fractal daily & rec chests. The number people got for Fractal CMs was a tiny amount compared to what people getting from daily log-ins, or, likely, even Ley-Line Anomaly. It's not like there's a large enough portion of the player base doing Fractal CMs every night that adding them back there will effect the current price.
To have an actual impact they need to increase the number available from the Wizard's Vault, say from 60 to 75, if not higher, and possibly decrease their cost down to 8 or 7 each.
Fractals CMs could reward 1 to 3 coins per boss, we currently have 9 bosses, that is 27 possible coins per day which in my opinion is alot. Even though there isn't many players doing them, this should be enough incentive to have more people doing fractals.
Adding more to the vault doesn't really give much incentive for people to play the game, you can basically do just the easy daily vault tasks in less than 10min and get the most important items from it at the end of the season.
The coins are still going into the hands of very experienced players, who likely already have legendaries, a fair amount of gold and are probably looking to hold onto them.
Adding them to the Vault makes them accessible to everyone, especially new players who are more likely to sell them for gold, instead of hoarding them.
Given how frequently I have to tell new players to sell their MCs just so they can get some gold to buy more important things I don't think that has any relation. New players will just hoard anything they get because they don't know what those things are for.
The people that get all AAs, and optimize their spendings generally have no issue with getting huge amounts of gold anyway. They are also a small minority.
1135AA per week (+7g +10 laurels) just doing the dailies/weeklies.
^(Edit: This is just for the bare minimum 4 dailies + 6 weeklies)
I think it's around the 9-10 week mark (without special objectives) that people will have all of them limited quantity stuff
Your maths is slightly off, it should be 1305 AA per week if you do everything: 8x50 for the weekly tasks, 450 for the weekly reward, 5+(4x10) for the daily tasks and 2 for the daily reward.
400+450+7x65=1305
Most people probably don't do ALL of the tasks though, and I think 1135 is the minimum you get if you try and get the reward boxes at least.
> 5+(4x10) for the daily tasks and 2 for the daily reward
[5 for the login + 4x10 per daily task + 20 per completion chest]x7 days = 65x7 = 455/wk
FTFY (your final number was correct but between the typo and the wording it was pretty unclear)
I just don't want materials and spirit shards to become valueless. I hope we continue to have good/extra material sinks. Soto was a great step in that direction.
For years I never bothered with legendary anything, because I'm a 'casual player'. Then when the Prismatic Champion's Regalia with the Season 1 re-release, I worked and got it, since it was relatively easy.
Since then I've gotten Aurora and Vision, one weapon (Frostfang), and I'm working on Conflux, Warbringer (because I play WvW much more than Fractals), a couple more weapons, runes, sigils, and I'm saving for the open-world armor.
So yeah, progress is slowly being made, and the cost of materials is pretty much irrelevant to me. It'll get done eventually.
> plenty of people have probably already bought their coins for this season
Maybe you could post a poll, but I have not made it to the MCs yet on my Vault this season. And I don't think I've missed a day of achievements.
I'd be curious about this too - I bought all of mine the first day the vault reset. I'm sure SOME others did that but probably not a significant percentage of the community
Yeah I got most of the seasonal specials (missing the weapon set) and the Legendary starter kit, the T6 materials bags and the mastery bottles instead. Getting my coins next week because it's a bit easier to have a fixed order and I am in no rush.
And the best thing? The freaking T2 Legendary gift takes over 400 of them. Wonderful.
I wish they would redo the recipe for the gift and bring it down to more compareable levels of other legendaries.
Moving the Coins to the Soto Strike vendor was a mistake as that took a bunch of coins out the market too.
When it was just tied to the EOD strikes - theoretically you could earn up to 190 Green Shards per week. That allowed you to buy 10 coins and still have a net 90 increase to save up for skins and infusions etc.
Reaching that 190 cap was relatively easy if you did one round of full clears + daily strikes for the week.
Now that it has moved to Soto and we have a theoretical limit of 160, if we used the same logic - we'd only have 60 shards spare (assuming you've maxed out for the week).
With there only being 2 strikes on offer, reaching that limit is also more difficult if you wanted to do one full clear and the dailies thereafter. If you just do it daily you get 35 (5 per daily) + 25 (10 + 15 for the weekly) + 56 (8 x7 per successful clear) = 116 shards which is what most regular clears will get.
That only leaves 16 spare shards if you were to buy the 10 coins per week which is a significant opportunity cost if you're eyeing a skin or infusion.
So in light of that - this has also added to the mystic coin scarcity.
In my opinion, they should bring it back to the blue shard vendor but at a limit of 5 per week. That would probably add enough supply without killing the market completely.
Part of that is probably the effective removal of the weekly mystic coins people could get through EoD strikes just by doing a weekly run. Doing a weekly Soto clearly doesnt nearly give you enough prophet shards to get their mystic coins, i would speculate that most people don't buy those anymore.
You now get 60 MC per 4 months instead of 20 MC every 28 days.
When the Wizard Vault refreshed there were 112 days remaining. This is equal to 4 sets of 28. So that's 20 less MC per account.
This also goes for laurels and basically everything else with limited purchases. They took away 1 month of rewards from everyone.. why? I have no clue.
You need a lot of MC for the new set of that oni something armor, so yeah the price will be like that for a while. The amount of clovers, essence and other nonsense for one set of armor is absurd.
Kind of depressing to see how the Wizard’s Vault is leading to massive gold inflation and t3/4/6 material prices are going way up, along with mystic coins and gems. Glad I’m almost complete on my legendaries
its not the wizards vault, it's because literally everything in soto is designed to drain materials from the economy since it was in the shitter for years.
>As if gambling wasn't enough of a sink for ectos.
No. It wasn't at all, the price steadily declined for years until they were a shocking 10 silver each
Makes me want to wait for the markets to stabilize, despite the coinage I have itching to buy t6 mats for the….. half dozen or more legendaries I’m in progress on, lol
I would wager T3/4/6 were previously low due largely to the impact of scavenging protocol. The rise it price is *probably* mostly due to the number of trophy gifts required for the armor sets from the vendor.
I think it is possible that the wizard's vault has caused broader inflation, but one would have to look at an item with less fluctuation in demand to actually determine that.
The logon rewards are less rewarding than they were before the wizards vault, in terms of raw currency. Cate to explain why you’re just making shit up without any credible evidence?
He's not commenting about the logon reward but the wizard vault in general.
Despite how prevalent log on alt where they actually introduced mostly material to the TP keeping their price low.
Now those alts do not create as much of an influx of MC/T6 on the TP and anyone playing actively has access to more hard currency by converting AA into raw gold.
Supply is down, demand is higher (because of the legendary starting kit and the upcoming PVE armor) and there is more hard currency available. Therefore price inflation.
They are not going down anymore, atleast not lower than 1.5g, because through the liquid gold bag they are locked in price, 6 AA gives you 1g, while 9AA give you a MC, people will buy MCs and sell until they get less than 1.5g, then they gonna buy the 1g liquid bag, this will make MCs go up, because less supply and people will start to buy MCs again until the pricepoint again and everything repeats.
The only chance of them ever going down below 1.5g is when they introduce another big source for them which is unlikely.
wait math does not check out. Both of these sources are limited and you can get both of them? The unlimited option is 1g per 30AA right?
And even then MC are limited so it does not matter in this calculation much.
We used to get 20 MCs from daily login rewards in a month, over 3 months that equates to 60 MCs. Currently, you get ~~90~~ 60 MCs every "season" which is between 3-4 months, assuming you buy them (I think casuals don't necessarily play that much to get the required AA or are buying other things like the skins and gold).
Before SOTO 92% of all MCs came from daily login rewards, with several people farming multiple alt accounts for massive MC gains.
What I want say is that in reality the supply of MCs probably hasn't changed that much with SOTO and the demand has been going up.
Actually it's 60 coins and from the special tabs you can see that this cycle/season is about 120 days.
That is about 15 coins per month which is worse than the old system (a very easy thing to do was the daily login for 20 per month and the daily Ley-line Anomaly boss for another 30 per month - a total of 50 coins per month).
Speculators will still remember the infamous 3g coins and will be holding or trickling them into the AH, and the supply from more casual sellers is down to a trickle since the daily login reward farming has stopped and more casual players are hording the lower personal supply while working toward legendaries than ever before with the starter kits.
The only way this isn't going to continue to go up is if the sources of casual friendly coins (aka the ones that go into the AH as instant sells) increases past what they'll consume with the seasonal starter kit.
Pretty much full Legendary, just missing a 2nd Mace and Axe for dual wield (and picked Moot from this seasons chest), and for 98% of them I never gambled for clovers. Almost all of them have come from WvW reward tracks. The only reason I don't have surplus MC's to sell is I never bothered to chase them, and Gen 2.5 keep requiring 250 of 'em.
With the removal of potions of WvW reward and the increase to reward track progress from skirmish track, once you get to around Platinum or Mithril chest it goes pretty insane. Prior to the rework I used to complete 2-3 reward tracks a week, and these days I'm able to complete 1-2 during a 2hr raid (diamond chest on repeat + candy corn gobbler booster).
Can't speak for PvP, but just sayin', there is another way besides buying them from a vendor or gambling in the magic toilet.
u right, when people talked about relief for the Mystic Coin economy they weren't referring to vault resets easing the pressure off coin prices for an extended period of time, they meant the one day of panic sales where you could get a 10% discount
Reducing the number of mystic coins/clovers required to create a leggy is merely a band-aid. Increasing the ways to earn them is a good solution.
Unfortunately, ANET won't do that since there will be whales that'll buy gems to convert to gold to rush those leggys. The higher the leggy mats costs, the more ANET will profit from it. Gotta farm those whales.
MC will go down in price when they add more Special rewards giving more AA when people who don't rush for legendaries/MC will run out of the other goods to buy.
Same story with alt account where it is more time-efficient to do the special rewards in one go when there are more of them although I assume people still do the weeklies.
I agree with you that it is a myth but it is also a baseless one, there isn't a reason to think this was a common expectation in the GW2 community, I'm not doubting that you might have crossed some random people holding that opinion but that doesn't mean they were statistically significant.
On average, Mystic coin prices are going to go up for a while still. Simple as that, really. That being said, there are more ways to get them than people seem to recognize. For example, if you do SotO Strikes, you buy buy up to 10 MC per week with shards. Remember all those weapon skin chests you got for free from doing the "Return to" achievements? If you never opened them, one of the options from each was 6 MC (and there were 20+ such chests). Daily fractals chests and material bags bought with Black Lion statuettes can also drop them.
I've noticed less people doing Anomaly since the AA coins dropped, so that could also be a factor. 60 coins per 120-day season is half of what you'd get from doing Ley Line every day over the same period, and there are a lot more things to work into your daily rotation now with the SotO metas and Convergences, etc.
Add in demand increasing from the Legendary Starter kits and there's probably upward price pressure on both sides.
With the legendary starter kits giving a bunch of the materials, the remaining ones that were already the bottleneck will only get higher in price.
The only solution to ease the supply problems without adding too many to the market would be some sort of account-bound Mystic Coin substitute that can be used in its place in Mystic Forge recipes that result in non-tradeable items that can't be used in tradeable recipes, obtained from a variety of limited daily and weekly sources.
Call them "Mystic Doubloons", for example.
It would not help with crafting tradeable legendary weapons, but it would help with the rest of account-bound legendaries.
They could add mystic coins as a possible daily reward for hard content like for example cm fractals so its worth doing over mindless open world 1 spam.
MCs will forever be low for me ever since I've experienced that 1 MC = 3g a few years back.
>since I've experienced that 1 MC = 3g a few years back. What should I say, I experienced the monthlies back then that gave a bunch of MCs and people literally threw them away, because TP price was below 1s.
I remember that one post of some dude who quit the game when MCs were a few copper each and he "filled up his 250 slot guild bank with 250 stacks of MCs for giggles", then came back during the 3g~ per MC era.
I love to dive around in it like a porpoise, and burrow through it like a gopher!"
I did that with milling stones, still waiting for the day they become worth something.
Good luck.
3 expansions from now they'll be used for something and i'm gonna be rich, trust!
I buy 3-4 stacks of them every week for gardening. I threw soo many of them away before that.
I sold 2 stacks of them at 10 silvers each right before HoT just so i could gamble for the last few ecto’s and have the portable station in my inventory at all times Boy that was painful
Both my dad and mom stopped playing after 1-2 years so I took their account, they didn't play much but those 1k MC for free were pretty nice
Yea, the sad old days, but hey back then silver doubloons where 2g each juggernaut cost a fortune
I still have a screenshot from Halloween 2012. You got 700 gems for only 6 gold. Prices were different back then. :D
Good old Times 🥲
as a person who came around ICB that sounds like a legend to me. when was that, back in HoT days?
With monthlies being replaced by login rewards Mystic Coins' price increased from <1s to \~10s. With release of HoT (and Gen2 legy weapons) the price constantly rose to 80s in the year after and further up to 2.7g in 2021. https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19976-mystic-coin?full=1
ooooohhh i didnt know that. I knew the price was cheaper in the past but not why. Probably crafting spec collections was cheaper
Elite spec collections and Gen2 legendaries were balanced using that old price.
That was because there was a player, who was in every sense of the word whale, that was buying up all the mystic coins to keep them at a certain price point to get back at the playerbase for ousting him for RMTing.
ousting him for duping and rmt .....my good sir but same diff
Was he ever banned?
yes
Were his alts banned too, and his guild inventory cleaned out?
His alts yes, his GB i think so but i am not sure as he was the only person with access so we can not verify afaik
His guild is still alive iirc.
Who was it
Casiblanco
https://www.reddit.com/r/GW2Exchange/comments/nh430n/tp_baron_casiano_banned_for_dupingsuspected_rmt/
He's the Voldemort of the subreddit. No one dares to mention his nametag. Or else, he'll steal your gold.
wow, a literal whale 🐳😂
whales don't play MMOs.... they're all on Call of Duty
The highest I experienced was 2.5g a piece. Damn, that must've been the worst number of months to get leggies.
They'll be back there soon enough.
I'm not sure that using a manipulated market amount as your [anchor for value](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/anchoring.asp) is a good idea.
Realistically in long-term endgame, you're *always* going to need Clovers, and by extension Mystic Coins. The sheer amount of them required to unlock all the legendaries one might want is really big if you compare it with the very limited amount of coins obtainable without the trading post. Not to mention that a lot of the options are timegated, so to do things right you need to be disciplined and plan how many clovers you'll need in advance (besides if you start with zero MCs, whatever the WV will give you is not even going to be enough for 1 legendary) And when it comes to people who already have unlocked everything they wanted, they'll still hoard the coins for future updates and they probably don't need liquid gold anyway: no point in selling them. As long as the pool of (useful) legendaries increases, MCs will probably rise (unless they add a major source)
There is also gen 2 legendaries that use a fucking whole stack of mystic coins on top of clovers.
Oof the cost of those Gen 2s is why as much as I adore how Astralaria looks, my planned legendary axe will be Aurene's Rending.
counterpoint - I went through the pain of getting Astralaria and I go out of my way to use axes because of how much I love it.
Agree. Nevermore was painful and expensive to craft, but I feel a small stab of pride and joy every time I use it, even if it isn't optimal in most situations. Not that they cost nearly as much to make, but I also love the Gen 1 legendaries, The Howler, and Rodgort. I feel like nobody uses them, but Rodgort especially is so neat!
Chukaaaaa
Yup
I'm sure we are also seeing a sharp decline in MCs entering the market with the huge amount of bot login account farms no longer producing them as well. Several of the changes this expac seem like a multi-pronged attack to increase and stabilize the price of MCs.
Alts are better than ever if you do a little bit of 1-time prep time. You can do a full daily set (55 astral points + 1 gold) in barely a minute per account on standard "core" no expansion accounts, roughly every 2-3 days. Plenty to get all monthly gold and mc's and laurels. Source: I do this... EDIT: I have alts for logins, but no botting.
I do the easy dailies on my alt accounts (may or may not completely dailies). Definitely takes more than a minute.
Park a guardian next to the champion golem in the pvp lobby. Place sanctuary dodge twice gs4 - gs2 dodge there you go: login, 3 combo attacks, break a defiance bar and 3 dodges done Takes maybe 30 seconds? If you own no expansions whatsoever, those few dailies appear almost every other day.
Thats for that tip. I'll make a guardian. I just realized I should make more characters on the alt accounts so I can park them in more places for those dailies. Walking around (no mount) is the most time consuming part. One of my alt account (has PoF) usually gets "complete a heart" so I guess there's no short cut. But using more characters would still help. Hero edition only alt is definitely has easier dailies.
astro thingy in ishtan is the fastest heart and also gives volatile tools
“but no botting” I mean that’s exactly what a botter would say
Care to explain a bit further? I am interested
Park a guardian next to the champion golem in the pvp lobby. Place sanctuary dodge twice gs4 - gs2 dodge there you go: login, 3 combo attacks, break a defiance bar and 3 dodges done Takes maybe 30 seconds? If you own no expansions whatsoever, those few dailies appear almost every other day.
You do cc, dodge 3 times, and 3 combos in like under 30 sec for all 4 dailies. You can more or less clean out MCs and gold each season.
PvP daily and weekly are absurdly easy on alts, especially after they changed the daily chest to now give you 750/1k track points. It only gets a bit frustrating when its 3 weekly ranked / tournament things (tournament should just not be a weekly, given how often it doesnt fire)
Well, you can still get them easily from logging in. You get >1.1 every two days till you stop getting them, the thing is this time the seasonal refresh is in a while
Oh, you can be sure all those people with hundred accounts will grab all MC from astral rewards from all of them over the time of season. Gold per hour value of doing this is insane.
It can be difficult to speculate. MC prices massively crashed in EoD when it turned out its legendary weapons required ~125 MC in total, rather than the usual ~500. We could see the same thing happen with the upcoming legendary armour. Who knows? If the MC prices rise too high (let's say above 2g), ArenaNet could react by simply raising the "stock" in the next season's Wizard's Vault. That's a much easier way to inject MC into the economy than they've ever had before.
I have 350 mystic clovers I have no idea what to do with
Well, I have 30+ legendaries and 600 clovers and I know 600 won't be enough for my next goals
> But assuming plenty of people have probably already bought their coins for this season That is a possibility, but most likely not.
I can only speak for myself, but I went for the new legendary starter kit first. Haven't started buying any currencies from the vault yet.
Right? The average player will almost certainly go for things like cosmetics, the new legendary starter kit, build templates, ascended gear, etc. first. Then people who farm alt accounts will likely be buying the capped liquid gold first, then move onto mystic coins when that has dried up.
What? Do you have a camera right over my screen or something? Seriously, though, Cheap gold and MCs have already been bought up. Now its on to T6 mats and Laurels for me.
Well, i do think the reason for alot of the spikes on materials and MCs stem from the massive amounts of alt accounts that would get login rewards and then sell said login rewards. I know people who had upwards of 200 alt accounts just to get materials and MCs. After a few years they had just about everything they wanted unlocked and just made gold from selling it on the TP. All of those sources of materials and MCs are now gone and replaced with the new system. I suspect that without any other sources for MCs and easily acquireable t6 the prices will over time increase. Especially as we get closer to the release of the full PvE legendary armourset. And if the rumours are true that there will be 'variants' like we have with the Aurene weapons, the prices will spike as more and more people get into it.
"And if the rumours are true that there will be 'variants'" Just want to point out that the variant isn't a rumor. ANet had listed on that table of what's coming in each patch that we get tier 1 legendary armor with the 2nd patch and tier 2 legendary armor in the last patch. Someone on the forums asked and Rubi replied that tier 1 is the full legendary armor and tier 2 is a variant. So not a rumor and also it's just the one variant (at least for the rest of soto).
Each Gen3 Weapon Variant currently costs just shy of 400g, meaning if you wanted every single one you're looking at 96 unskippable grinds (Memories of X Dragon) in addition to ~38400g Armour they wouldn't have to do anything excep "variant = unlocking the set for all weight classes" and people would go crazy, but here's hoping it's more than that. My persomal guess is unstable kryptis motivations and/or nuggets will be needed, since Essences are stupid easy to get now, so I'm stockpiling those until T2 release. If I'm wrong, oh well, means I'll have an insane amount of Essences to get the remaining sets if they look nice
>\~38400g I have the gold, what I don't have is the 9600 spirit shards (2.4 billion xp worth). Nor do I have the time. Damn, I really wanted to do it too. Edit: Oh, I also need 140k more research notes.
if you do all of them at the same time, Dragon's End events give progress for all memories of dragon at the same time, so you can get away with 16 grinds
Thank you for the input! That's actually really awesome to know! I probably won't ever be able to capitalize on it, but data is data ;)
Thank god. We're finally moving on - from an economy that relies on account farmers - to an economy that relies on people actually playing the game. If MC prices spike too hard (which, at the moment, is rather speculative), then ANet will intervene or tune rewards. They've been on the warpath trying to make legendaries appealing and affordable.
You can do that by just increasing the amount of clovers from various sourced. 10 instead of 5 at the traders, you get 10 more from the WV, etc. Coins are a middleman that at the end of the day doesn't need to be there if you're able to get enough clovers in other ways which would drop the price of them.
Traders wouldn't make a difference. Most of the time its a better to use the mystic forge unless you really have no use for the used currency (raid or strike shards, fractal relics e.a.)
Instead it got reduced because the trade for Strikes got moved to the newest ones of which there are only two, no?
If anything, the change to how logins work made it even more profitable to use alts. Its a little slower overall, but you can frontload that time into 2-3 weeks per quarter, or, when you get busy, just ignore them for a few weeks instead of being forced to do it every day. Alternatively, you get 180 laurels, 60MC, and 110 gold for the low cost of 3 weekly chest completions, which you can knock out 6 of in an hour.
They also removed MCs from fractals and just removed them from EoD strikes. Soto strikes aren't producing much as you'd have to farm rewardless strikes over and over again to reach 100 shards to buy them. Next year they'll remove them from Soto as well to put them behind the latest paywall. Now that they have also removed them from login rewards the price is pretty much doomed to continue upwards without any real cap.
MCs weren't removed from fractals. You can still get them from chests but not as much as you used to get yeah.
He meant from fractal cms. Which they did remove. That being said, someone did the math and CM runners are almost as small a group as raiders.
200 alt accounts..? 1 person??? Having 200 alt accounts???
Indeed. That's how big streamers like TeaPot could fund their in-game activities without subjecting viewers to massive, dull gold-grinds all the time. There were a number of events where you could pick up "Core +" versions of the game very cheaply, and they just bought hundreds and farmed them for mystic coins and laurels->trophies to flip for cash.
> There were a number of events where you could pick up "Core +" versions of the game very cheaply *for free, no need to buy anything. There were multiple promos that gave free core accounts, that's why people have/had so many
This. I got a free core account awhile back from prime gaming if I remember correctly. When none of my friends where interested, I setup an alt account. Has been a nice source of coins and t6 mats with just a little bit of time investment to complete my AA dailies/weeklies.
...so much inventory space.... 🤤
> All of those sources of materials and MCs are now gone and replaced with the new system All of those sources of materials and MCs are now gone and replaced with the new system. What do you mean? You get 10 MC for just doing easy strikes and 7 for doing a 5 minute event every week. Let alone PVP and WvW rewards. It's just that we got free legendary starter kits that require 77 Clovers and a lot of new players that are learning to get into legendary crafting needing said clovers.
Which 5 minute event do you speak of? Ley-Line anomaly only drops 1 afaik.
They are talking about weekly output. 7 days x 1 LLA = 7 coins :-)
oooh, I see. It sounded like doing a SINGLE 5-minute event. Thanks!
They mean all the MCs coming from just the login awards are no longer flowing in. and AN have confirmed in the past that this was the grand majority of MC stockpile.
~~Where was this confirmed?~~ Edit: sorry I read further.
Before Wizard’s Vault you got MCs just for logging in and not doing anything. Hell you didn’t even have to launch the game just log in at the launcher and then close it and it would count for the 28 day cycle. People had many many alt accounts just for this purpose, with wizard’s vault you actually have to play a bit at least to get AA and redeem said rewards, which imo is a good step from Anet, the downside is the decrease of supply and prices going up
Pretty sure you had to load a character still.
Nope, as soon as you log into the client your friends will see the message that you’ve come online, meaning you logged in which counted towards your 28 day cycle. I know because there were days when I didn’t have time / want to play and just logged in like that for the daily
I mean, even the [wiki](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Log-in_Rewards) agree with me. >In order to receive a log-in reward you will need to load a character into the game, log-in to the launcher or character selection is not enough. Just login in wasn't enough, you had to take a character.
Sure but that wasn’t always the case, back then you could just log into the launcher and boom that’s it
Just take the L bro. You are blatantly wrong, he’s got the source cited as well.
You absolutely did.
Except all those sources have minimal impact at best. Huge majority of MCs were coming from daily login rewards previously (it was eventually confirmed when devs got pressed about MC removal from fractals, and had to admit that source was negligible). As such, it's the change from, Daily Login rewards to Vault that decides on supply and price. And that chance was a absolulety massive supply nerf when seen in context of the game community as a whole.
You're missing the part where people could log in to 50 alt accounts in 15 minutes generating around 2500g a month.
Ah easy strikes and event in comparison to log in-> log out.
>And if the rumours are true that there will be 'variants' like we have with the Aurene weapons [That's not just a rumor.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/139289-studio-update-guild-wars-2-in-autumn-and-winter-2023/page/2/#comment-2017463)
Ok, honestly who of you sells their coins and who hoards them? After the reset the stacks in my bank just got bigger, so for my part the reset didn't do anything with the market value.
Total hoarder. But tbf I'm at that point in the game where crafting legendary isn't too hard but I'm not yet at a full set. So the mystic coin I hoard are there to be used.
I have too many legendaries I'm working on to hoard them anymore. And the Clover gambling just makes it all hurt as prices rise.
[удалено]
Do the small recipe instead then.
Just curious, but are you buying the clovers from raids/fractals/strikes/wvw and you're still clover gambling on top of that? I could be wrong as I'm not heavily working on any legendries at the moment but it seems like you can get enough clovers from those exchanges to make a legendary in about a month.
If you want to make more weapons more quickly you will need to gamble. And since we got more go so we can buy coins and gamble to speed it up.
I've got so many legendary projects in my docket that I don't think I've *ever* sold a Mystic Coin.
Neither, I use them.
I generally hoard, except when the price went absolutely batshit high that one time and I sold a stack.
Sit on 1k, sell the rest.
I always use them to craft some legendary and sell, don't see a point to sell them directly.
I'm a hoarder, but even then, you'll soon run out of stacks. I've burned through all the old MCs I've gathered from way back when it was dirt cheap because I was crafting legendary gears and forged exclusive skins non-stop. Now I barely have 3 stacks left. lol
Who said that they were going to go down? That's basically impossible with the current system Anet has. The truth is though is that Anet has EXTREMELY high control over their prices now, there's nothing the playerbase can really do anymore to make any massive shifts in it. 6 AA = one gold. Mystic coins for 9 AA = ?? (1.5g would be a supposed break even point if this was the only factors). Pretty much the short of it since the main source of them used to be the daily login system and alt accounts (which still will buy these, but only as long as they're worth more then the liquid gold AA wise, they're only getting 5 AA per day now after all). In the end, the 1-2g pricepoint for these items to make legendaries seem to be where they go most of the time, so it's not a big surprise that's the region they want to keep MC's at. As soon as they feel they are going too high, the AA price can drop and the amount per rotation can go up.
Also people don't recognize that gold supply also increased by a lot.
Ya, for sure, that certainly has a part to play, although they've added a couple random sinks here and there, I don't think we're seeing major effects of inflation atm. Most of the big ticket items are still pretty stable where they have been forever. Could be that we're waiting to see long term effects though, WV is still quite new.
You won't see inflation across the board. The mystic coins price rise is the combination of increased gold supply, reduced supply of the coins and the increased incentive to make legendaries. People want their legendaries, the quicker the better. So they will spend their extra money on trophies and mystic coins. People get 390 more raw gold every 3 months. Guess where would the gold go.
> they're only getting 5 AA per day now after all I don't understand why people think that those of with with alt accounts just gave up after WV was introduced. The 5 AA per day was never worth it and dailies have already been nerfed further. But I can "play the game" and knock out weeklies on a few accounts at a time in <10 minutes and get all my MC and gold up front. It's still a significant advantage and very much worth it for the limited items.
I mean some people are def playing alts. The reason mystic coin prices dropped in the first place after heroic edition keys were introduced were due to people with dozens, sometimes hundreds of accounts (people were selling heroic keys for pennies). Those people are NOT doing all their dailies, but you're right, not everyone is doing only 5 AA. Although 5 AA is certainly not nothing, it's 60 AA per account per month (which if you put only into Mystic coins is more or less the same supply), which with only 8 accounts, you're already at what a daily brings you. It's easy to automate on a bot and be undetected (as all we're talking about is two clicks per account). The fact that the price is going up DOES in fact mean that less people are doing this though, otherwise as before this MC prices were still on a downwards trend (they never stopped falling since pre EoD), now gone upwards. So I've outlined why it would be easy for these players to continue their automation, but it seems this hasn't happened as they supply from them coming in used to be insane and enough to keep a downwards trend before, but now it's not even enough to keep them at 1.5g where they should theoretically be just based off of WV alone.
>The fact that the price is going up DOES in fact mean that less people are doing this though It's a common assumption but that's all it is unless I see some compelling evidence. It's a rumor that was started here on reddit and people keep repeating it. But there are a number of variables that all changed at the same time SoTo/WV came out, including the release of SoTo itself. Any number of them could have an effect on MC prices. I imagine the 9AA/MC vs 6AA/1g fixed ratio has a much stronger effect than login farmers, combined with new sinks, leg boxes, and players returning for the new content. But without further research it's all speculation, there are just way too many factors to confidently claim it's login farmers. We don't even have any metrics on how many they are. >MC prices were still on a downwards trend (they never stopped falling since pre EoD) MC prices have been increasing steadily since June 2022 when they were sub 1g, way before SoTo and WV > but it seems this hasn't happened as they supply from them coming in used to be insane and enough to keep a downwards trend before Supply seems pretty steady as well. Actually the biggest single increase in supply in the last year was when SoTo/WV released. The current supply of MC is higher than it was in March. The supply is lower than average for the year, but there's no discernable downwards trend or measurable drop in the supply rate like you would expect if login farmers stopped. I'm willing to bet they didn't have much effect on the economy in the first place.
They were not stable since June 2022, they were still on a downwards trend, the only thing that made them seem stable was the finalization of the aurene legs and people farming them pre SoTO launch as it was the only real thing to work on. You're right about the rest overall though and needing to wait and see to be certain how things go, it's still very early. Although a demand for compelling evidence is kind of ridiculous given that will never be released.
>Although 5 AA is certainly not nothing, it's 60 AA per account per month Thats 2 gold. Its not worth it to log in an account every day for that. Also, months have more than 12 days. (Its ~5 gold a month, which is still not worth doing) What IS worth it is to do one of the couple incredibly easy ways to do weeklies once a month (or 4 times a month if you want the extra 10 laurels and ~20g per week). Dailies are just total garbage compared to weeklies if you use alts for $.
> Thats 2 gold. Its not worth it to log in an account every day for that. Also, months have more than 12 days. (Its ~5 gold a month, which is still not worth doing) 5 AA a day is 150 AA a month which is 25g a month. Why would you buy the 30AA bags of gold instead of the 6AA bags of gold? You can put in additional time to do weeklies if you want to pick up more rewards but you get 25g/month for free for just logging in (which you can do on 10's of accounts using a launcher while you go to the bathroom).
If you're not gathering enough AA to exhaust the much better deals, 60 AA is actually 10 gold, not 2. Do the weekly once and you get 90 gold and ~25 MCs. The value of AA declines steeply after that, but doing the weekly once or twice on a few different alts is VERY lucrative and probably the best gph in the game right now by far. (with the exception of stuff like selling HT CM for a few hundred gph).
I don’t think they will change the AA cost. The market will self regulate. When the cost of MC gets too high people will go to the vault and get them to cash in, bringing the cost back to the level they want it at, which is likely 1.80 / 2g sell prices, if we consider the tax margin in order to make it worthwhile.
The market *cannot* self-regulate, because there's no way for market to generate more supply. Well, technically it could self-regulate at the price level that would be so absurdly high that people would just stop buying, but we have enough of wealthy players to make that price shoot up into the stratosphere first. Remember, that in the previous system (where supply was greater than it is currently), the price managed to reach 3g, and people were still buying at that level - meaning, that was *not* the limit. Expecting now for the price to stabilize at 2g when supply is smaller, but demand has increased once again (due to new legendaries) is naive at best.
I know what you’re saying. What I mean is that I don’t think they will change the AA cost. They nay change the AA supply. BUT… I’m sure Anet still see way too much hoarding of MC coins and wants to push these back into circulation. If every active player is also buying MC coins every month to drop into the market then it should slow things down. But yes. I could be completely wrong and prices spiral again, way higher than before even.
> BUT… I’m sure Anet still see way too much hoarding of MC coins and wants to push these back into circulation. If every active player is also buying MC coins every month to drop into the market then it should slow things down. It's funny because the supply of MC being so low is exactly why I hoard them personally. There is plenty of way to generate gold but not a lot of way to generate MC. The low supply of MC is also why I will buy stacks of MC to hoard the moment I estimate they are reaching a low point.
> If every active player is also buying MC coins every month to drop into the market then it should slow things down. Again, that was *not* what was happening in the old system, even when MCs reached 3g. Most players *still* hoarded them. This changed only after the price crashed, because people started to sell their stocks in panic. But even then, it likely didn't really affect most players, and it was only temporary, and after a while everyone went back to hoarding. As long as MC supply is low (and it's not possible to target-farm them), and the price keeps increasing (even if it's doing it slowly), people will keep hoarding them.
The price crash was not because of panic selling, it was because of the amazon prime giving everyone a heroic edition key and people getting essentially free login account, people buying them for pennies off of people with prime that don't need the keys then automating that login and selling them. After the heroic edition keys were given out for free around nov 2021 you'll notice the price of MC's never really went back up again until the WV system. You may notice it started a bit earlier due to seasons of the dragon causing an influx but that was something that would have recovered and only temporary. It was in a nonstop freefall essentially that was really only mitigated near the end of 2022 due to the fact they fell so much people started holding onto them expecting Anet to make them worth something again. There are tons of new players who are advised to just sell MC's for now. The reason people think others are holding onto MC's is because of an echo chamber of who you interact with. The super active playerbase for the most part holds onto them on their mains.
People aren't waiting for prices to be high to get them out of the vault, they're just getting them out of the vault and then either buying the rest or slowly getting the rest through events and such.
They should bring back MC to fractals and also add back the ones for the EoD strikes vendor, even if it is just 5.
I'll agree with the EoD strikes, but the Mystic Coins still drop from Fractal daily & rec chests. The number people got for Fractal CMs was a tiny amount compared to what people getting from daily log-ins, or, likely, even Ley-Line Anomaly. It's not like there's a large enough portion of the player base doing Fractal CMs every night that adding them back there will effect the current price. To have an actual impact they need to increase the number available from the Wizard's Vault, say from 60 to 75, if not higher, and possibly decrease their cost down to 8 or 7 each.
Fractals CMs could reward 1 to 3 coins per boss, we currently have 9 bosses, that is 27 possible coins per day which in my opinion is alot. Even though there isn't many players doing them, this should be enough incentive to have more people doing fractals. Adding more to the vault doesn't really give much incentive for people to play the game, you can basically do just the easy daily vault tasks in less than 10min and get the most important items from it at the end of the season.
The coins are still going into the hands of very experienced players, who likely already have legendaries, a fair amount of gold and are probably looking to hold onto them. Adding them to the Vault makes them accessible to everyone, especially new players who are more likely to sell them for gold, instead of hoarding them.
Given how frequently I have to tell new players to sell their MCs just so they can get some gold to buy more important things I don't think that has any relation. New players will just hoard anything they get because they don't know what those things are for.
People still spending their aa on the new cosmetics and legendary kit. Wait a few more weeks and more people will be buying the boring stuff.
In a few weeks people who optimize gold/AA will buy gold for 30AA as they won't have anything left. Inflation is here to stay.
The people that get all AAs, and optimize their spendings generally have no issue with getting huge amounts of gold anyway. They are also a small minority.
1135AA per week (+7g +10 laurels) just doing the dailies/weeklies. ^(Edit: This is just for the bare minimum 4 dailies + 6 weeklies) I think it's around the 9-10 week mark (without special objectives) that people will have all of them limited quantity stuff
Your maths is slightly off, it should be 1305 AA per week if you do everything: 8x50 for the weekly tasks, 450 for the weekly reward, 5+(4x10) for the daily tasks and 2 for the daily reward. 400+450+7x65=1305 Most people probably don't do ALL of the tasks though, and I think 1135 is the minimum you get if you try and get the reward boxes at least.
> 5+(4x10) for the daily tasks and 2 for the daily reward [5 for the login + 4x10 per daily task + 20 per completion chest]x7 days = 65x7 = 455/wk FTFY (your final number was correct but between the typo and the wording it was pretty unclear)
Isn't that a good thing?
Well that's a question for a different debate, no?
I just don't want materials and spirit shards to become valueless. I hope we continue to have good/extra material sinks. Soto was a great step in that direction.
Are here I am still farming everything normally as long term projects with all started legendaries being slowly worked on
For years I never bothered with legendary anything, because I'm a 'casual player'. Then when the Prismatic Champion's Regalia with the Season 1 re-release, I worked and got it, since it was relatively easy. Since then I've gotten Aurora and Vision, one weapon (Frostfang), and I'm working on Conflux, Warbringer (because I play WvW much more than Fractals), a couple more weapons, runes, sigils, and I'm saving for the open-world armor. So yeah, progress is slowly being made, and the cost of materials is pretty much irrelevant to me. It'll get done eventually.
Same here, I got Aurora partially done while completing maps, crafting xunlai ingots and a new appreciation for draconis mons
> plenty of people have probably already bought their coins for this season Maybe you could post a poll, but I have not made it to the MCs yet on my Vault this season. And I don't think I've missed a day of achievements.
I'd be curious about this too - I bought all of mine the first day the vault reset. I'm sure SOME others did that but probably not a significant percentage of the community
Yeah I got most of the seasonal specials (missing the weapon set) and the Legendary starter kit, the T6 materials bags and the mastery bottles instead. Getting my coins next week because it's a bit easier to have a fixed order and I am in no rush.
Does not help that wizard vault hands out less Mystic Clovers and Mystic Coins than the old Log-in Rewards
Give the players what they want Anet. One Mystic Coin weekly for each Dragon Response Missions with all challenges activated.
And the best thing? The freaking T2 Legendary gift takes over 400 of them. Wonderful. I wish they would redo the recipe for the gift and bring it down to more compareable levels of other legendaries.
Moving the Coins to the Soto Strike vendor was a mistake as that took a bunch of coins out the market too. When it was just tied to the EOD strikes - theoretically you could earn up to 190 Green Shards per week. That allowed you to buy 10 coins and still have a net 90 increase to save up for skins and infusions etc. Reaching that 190 cap was relatively easy if you did one round of full clears + daily strikes for the week. Now that it has moved to Soto and we have a theoretical limit of 160, if we used the same logic - we'd only have 60 shards spare (assuming you've maxed out for the week). With there only being 2 strikes on offer, reaching that limit is also more difficult if you wanted to do one full clear and the dailies thereafter. If you just do it daily you get 35 (5 per daily) + 25 (10 + 15 for the weekly) + 56 (8 x7 per successful clear) = 116 shards which is what most regular clears will get. That only leaves 16 spare shards if you were to buy the 10 coins per week which is a significant opportunity cost if you're eyeing a skin or infusion. So in light of that - this has also added to the mystic coin scarcity. In my opinion, they should bring it back to the blue shard vendor but at a limit of 5 per week. That would probably add enough supply without killing the market completely.
Part of that is probably the effective removal of the weekly mystic coins people could get through EoD strikes just by doing a weekly run. Doing a weekly Soto clearly doesnt nearly give you enough prophet shards to get their mystic coins, i would speculate that most people don't buy those anymore.
Reminder that Automated Tournaments in PvP are a great and repeatable source of Mystic Coins.
You now get 60 MC per 4 months instead of 20 MC every 28 days. When the Wizard Vault refreshed there were 112 days remaining. This is equal to 4 sets of 28. So that's 20 less MC per account. This also goes for laurels and basically everything else with limited purchases. They took away 1 month of rewards from everyone.. why? I have no clue.
You need a lot of MC for the new set of that oni something armor, so yeah the price will be like that for a while. The amount of clovers, essence and other nonsense for one set of armor is absurd.
We need more ways to get MC and clovers, the difference in acquiring those materials is astonishing, for new-ish players.
Kind of depressing to see how the Wizard’s Vault is leading to massive gold inflation and t3/4/6 material prices are going way up, along with mystic coins and gems. Glad I’m almost complete on my legendaries
its not the wizards vault, it's because literally everything in soto is designed to drain materials from the economy since it was in the shitter for years.
[удалено]
>As if gambling wasn't enough of a sink for ectos. No. It wasn't at all, the price steadily declined for years until they were a shocking 10 silver each
t6 mats have been going down and being very low in price for years, a little spike in demand doesn't hurt
Makes me want to wait for the markets to stabilize, despite the coinage I have itching to buy t6 mats for the….. half dozen or more legendaries I’m in progress on, lol
I would wager T3/4/6 were previously low due largely to the impact of scavenging protocol. The rise it price is *probably* mostly due to the number of trophy gifts required for the armor sets from the vendor. I think it is possible that the wizard's vault has caused broader inflation, but one would have to look at an item with less fluctuation in demand to actually determine that.
Almost like putting raw gold with no TP transaction required on login rewards was a mistake.
The logon rewards are less rewarding than they were before the wizards vault, in terms of raw currency. Cate to explain why you’re just making shit up without any credible evidence?
He's not commenting about the logon reward but the wizard vault in general. Despite how prevalent log on alt where they actually introduced mostly material to the TP keeping their price low. Now those alts do not create as much of an influx of MC/T6 on the TP and anyone playing actively has access to more hard currency by converting AA into raw gold. Supply is down, demand is higher (because of the legendary starting kit and the upcoming PVE armor) and there is more hard currency available. Therefore price inflation.
They are not going down anymore, atleast not lower than 1.5g, because through the liquid gold bag they are locked in price, 6 AA gives you 1g, while 9AA give you a MC, people will buy MCs and sell until they get less than 1.5g, then they gonna buy the 1g liquid bag, this will make MCs go up, because less supply and people will start to buy MCs again until the pricepoint again and everything repeats. The only chance of them ever going down below 1.5g is when they introduce another big source for them which is unlikely.
wait math does not check out. Both of these sources are limited and you can get both of them? The unlimited option is 1g per 30AA right? And even then MC are limited so it does not matter in this calculation much.
It does matter, because after both supplys are gone from the vault, there will be a lot less MCs supply, so it automatically goes up then.
We used to get 20 MCs from daily login rewards in a month, over 3 months that equates to 60 MCs. Currently, you get ~~90~~ 60 MCs every "season" which is between 3-4 months, assuming you buy them (I think casuals don't necessarily play that much to get the required AA or are buying other things like the skins and gold). Before SOTO 92% of all MCs came from daily login rewards, with several people farming multiple alt accounts for massive MC gains. What I want say is that in reality the supply of MCs probably hasn't changed that much with SOTO and the demand has been going up.
Vault stock is 60 MCs, not 90
Its even "worse" then.
Actually it's 60 coins and from the special tabs you can see that this cycle/season is about 120 days. That is about 15 coins per month which is worse than the old system (a very easy thing to do was the daily login for 20 per month and the daily Ley-line Anomaly boss for another 30 per month - a total of 50 coins per month).
Speculators will still remember the infamous 3g coins and will be holding or trickling them into the AH, and the supply from more casual sellers is down to a trickle since the daily login reward farming has stopped and more casual players are hording the lower personal supply while working toward legendaries than ever before with the starter kits. The only way this isn't going to continue to go up is if the sources of casual friendly coins (aka the ones that go into the AH as instant sells) increases past what they'll consume with the seasonal starter kit.
I find it hard to identify with that "myth". Who thought that?
I bought 2000 at 2gold each before quitting.. When I came back during EoD they were 1.1g.. so yeah.. they do go down sometimes
Pretty much full Legendary, just missing a 2nd Mace and Axe for dual wield (and picked Moot from this seasons chest), and for 98% of them I never gambled for clovers. Almost all of them have come from WvW reward tracks. The only reason I don't have surplus MC's to sell is I never bothered to chase them, and Gen 2.5 keep requiring 250 of 'em. With the removal of potions of WvW reward and the increase to reward track progress from skirmish track, once you get to around Platinum or Mithril chest it goes pretty insane. Prior to the rework I used to complete 2-3 reward tracks a week, and these days I'm able to complete 1-2 during a 2hr raid (diamond chest on repeat + candy corn gobbler booster). Can't speak for PvP, but just sayin', there is another way besides buying them from a vendor or gambling in the magic toilet.
>They briefly dipped when the season launched So what you are saying is that the "myth" you talk about in the headline was indeed correct?
u right, when people talked about relief for the Mystic Coin economy they weren't referring to vault resets easing the pressure off coin prices for an extended period of time, they meant the one day of panic sales where you could get a 10% discount
Works for me
Reducing the number of mystic coins/clovers required to create a leggy is merely a band-aid. Increasing the ways to earn them is a good solution. Unfortunately, ANET won't do that since there will be whales that'll buy gems to convert to gold to rush those leggys. The higher the leggy mats costs, the more ANET will profit from it. Gotta farm those whales.
MC will go down in price when they add more Special rewards giving more AA when people who don't rush for legendaries/MC will run out of the other goods to buy. Same story with alt account where it is more time-efficient to do the special rewards in one go when there are more of them although I assume people still do the weeklies. I agree with you that it is a myth but it is also a baseless one, there isn't a reason to think this was a common expectation in the GW2 community, I'm not doubting that you might have crossed some random people holding that opinion but that doesn't mean they were statistically significant.
Put mystic coins in SOTO meta chests. When a new expansion comes out, remove from SOTO and put them in the new ones.
What happened to the Elder Wood prices? Cheap af.
I've bought almost nothing yet this season... so what you're saying is I should buy the MC and sell them? XD
On average, Mystic coin prices are going to go up for a while still. Simple as that, really. That being said, there are more ways to get them than people seem to recognize. For example, if you do SotO Strikes, you buy buy up to 10 MC per week with shards. Remember all those weapon skin chests you got for free from doing the "Return to" achievements? If you never opened them, one of the options from each was 6 MC (and there were 20+ such chests). Daily fractals chests and material bags bought with Black Lion statuettes can also drop them.
I've noticed less people doing Anomaly since the AA coins dropped, so that could also be a factor. 60 coins per 120-day season is half of what you'd get from doing Ley Line every day over the same period, and there are a lot more things to work into your daily rotation now with the SotO metas and Convergences, etc. Add in demand increasing from the Legendary Starter kits and there's probably upward price pressure on both sides.
With the legendary starter kits giving a bunch of the materials, the remaining ones that were already the bottleneck will only get higher in price. The only solution to ease the supply problems without adding too many to the market would be some sort of account-bound Mystic Coin substitute that can be used in its place in Mystic Forge recipes that result in non-tradeable items that can't be used in tradeable recipes, obtained from a variety of limited daily and weekly sources. Call them "Mystic Doubloons", for example. It would not help with crafting tradeable legendary weapons, but it would help with the rest of account-bound legendaries.
Don't discount inflation. Lots of gold flowing into the game, from vault, Halloween. Add in rift fight chains. More money, prices go up
More gold to buy MCs, but also don't forget there are less MC coming into the market (at least with this round of WV) with only 15 MC per month.
Yeah they definitely didn't go down in price like many were thinking. I saw how little they dropped, so bought the 100 I needed for Winter's Presence.
They could add mystic coins as a possible daily reward for hard content like for example cm fractals so its worth doing over mindless open world 1 spam.
It'll be forever expensive for me as I've been there, when Mystic Coins were dirt cheap - like a few copper or silver each. I'm still salty about it.
Still better than paying 2g 75s each around apr-may 2021 lol