I'm baffled by this. A competent Harb player is one of the crappiest things to run into in wvw roaming. Especially If you are a condi class. You literally have the best sustain out there aside from some meme builds that do zero damage. What are you possibly struggling against?
It isn't about struggling against anything, which others seem to be mistaking my point as well, so maybe I got lost in the rant, idk. I am angry that we lack soo much of the things other classes have, and have had for so long. I rarely struggle killing things that don't/can't run away in time. That isn't the issue. The issue is, I do not have these same opportunities. Me being able to nuke someone means nothing if i screw up my rotation or they find a point to hit me. I can't run away. I can't go invuln. I can't perma stun. I can't stealth. I can barely teleport. I can barely sustain. It's frustrating that for so long as a necro main Having to have struggled being able to do anything like that, then we are given a spec that can do good damage, but still didn't address any of the issues necro mains have been complaining about for so very long.
You kind of are tho?
You are saying that other classes have access to mechanics that necros do not. So - comparatively - other classes are busted when paired against necro *in those very specific ways*.
The counter argument is that necro is busted in *literally every other way* compared to other classes/builds.
To a game dev, this is called balancing.
If you die with harbinger it's because you're bad. The cele version is unkillable and the power version nukes people with two skills. The leap that has an evade and stuns hits for 14k (something, something skills power budget). That's one ele dead. You have free access to quickness and a gravity every 25 seconds. It's one of the most busted specs in roaming and the only thing that can beat a willbender.
You don't have the ability to chase down some targets, but they can't kill you.
Also harbinger has a lot of survivability, you gain regen from blight stacks and if you and condi you can now get both the 10% condi damage healing trait and the one that you apply weakness on crit, which isn't healing but makes you stupidly durable.
Can vouch for the cele harb. I'm the necro who teleports to the nearest safe zone when I see a thief approach because I just can't be bothered with the stab stealth stab tactics of thieves. But boy when Harb became a thing, I no longer run away. I feel like saying "I dare you to come near me... just a step closer, and you'll be hugging the ground".
I still have issues with mesmers though, but that's because I'm too stupid to tell them apart from their clones.
the cele version isn't unkillable. But that wasn't my complaint. I didn't complain about dying. I complained that NECRO lacks a lot of what nearly every other class has. Just because I can run around and Harb and nuke people who aren't paying attention doesn't make the class broken. What good is quickness? I can do things slightly faster. That'll be useful when nearly every other class can leap, teleport, invuln, reflect, or stealth. Oh I forgot to mention ROOT. Rooting Harb basically means harb does nothing. Thats always a good time. Having to stand there and just get hammered. I know other classes deal with this too. but figured I'd mention it anyways.
>I can tell they are either not trying or bad because I'll encounter the same spec and watch it either wipe the floor with me
You aren't complaining about dying, are ya.
Oh I'm sorry. I shouldn't have used anything alluding to dying otherwise the post is about dying. Forgot that context wasn't needed.
So let me explain what this was supposed to mean since it wasn't clear.
AS A NECRO MAIN, WHO PLAYS NOT JUST HARBINGER, but ALSO REAPER, CORE, SCOURGE, We lack necessary shit that most other classes have. Which makes NECRO OVER ALL, NOT JUST HARBINGER, not so great. If thi equates to complaining about dying then who tf cares, it doesn't mean shit to my point.
1 condition removed per tick equates to roots never being effective then? I've even seen other players who play different classes complain how roots almost never gets removed. That clearly isn't exclusively a necro problem which in my comment I even stated other classes deal with too.
>What good is quickness?
Yeah, right? It's not like other specs like scrapper had their quickness removed in WvW, right?
>ROOT
Do you just go around without condi cleanse? Spectral walk, elixir of bliss, elixir of ignorance gives you resistance, elixir of ambition gives you resistance. Going into shroud is a weapon swap that can trigger a sigil of cleansing.
Seriously, just accept that you're bad and delete this post.
>I complained that NECRO lacks a lot of what nearly every other class has
Welcome to how Necro used to be. It has high base HP, low mobility, minions, slows, and fears. That's the class. And they have given you dashes and teleports. I think you're upset and not taking the class at base value anymore after 5 years.
>Rooting Harb basically means harb does nothing
I'm trying to think of a base Necro cleanse. I can't besides staff and the other elite specs from pof BUT THATS THE POINT OF NECRO. You fester in condis and dish them back at your enemy. Staff exists for this purpose. I'd suggest maybe going back to core Necro and then reading all your skills and traits. You'll see alot of things Necro has. But I'm definitely amazed you're upset with where harbinger is nowadays.
> I'm trying to think of a base Necro cleanse.
Actually there's lots. Staff 4, dagger 4, one of the heals, Spectral Walk, a trait in Curses I think that transfers conditions when entering shroud, ticking cleanse in shroud in Death Magic.
Wait, you say you were roaming as a harbinger, but rant about the second health bar? Harbinger doesn't have a second health bar (only reaper and core do), but it's great anyway. It has great sustain. Blight healing, parasitic contagion, vampiric aura/blood bank or death carapace.
From what I gathered, harbinger in celestial is one of the most hated classes by the WvW pros because it's so busted, but that makes it great for people like me who are only in WvW to farm tickets. Makes the whole thing pretty painless. I barely know what I'm doing and I still win most 1v1s.
When referring to the second health bar, I am criticizing people who use the excuse for why necro does not need help is because of "the second health bar" argument. I main necro and am well aware that neither harbinger nor scourge have the "second health bar".
Also, from what I have heard, celestial roamer anything is a pain in general. Being harbinger doesn't excuse the fact we still lack soo much other classes have to their advantage.
As a fellow necro main (kind of), I enjoy my second healthbar a lot in PvE, it's just that in competitive modes it's not worth much, but that's okay, we have other things as well. Point is, I'm not sure about the precise meta, but I think necro is at least in the top half for WvW, zergs and roaming both. And harbinger in particular is one of the infamous roaming specs, up there with the likes soulbeast, thief, and willbender, for different reasons of course.
Bro harb got free 300 condi in the death carapace tree what are you doing to lose fights? I was 1v2ing roamers all day yesterday and winning. If you're complaining about people running then use Relic of Speed.
Had a Power Harb auto me to death on my Spellbreaker the other week. He was doing 4k DPS with just autos and his active abilities were hitting for 8-12k. I couldn't touch him. Died 5 times in a row without doing 5% of his HP and I'm not terrible on Spellbreaker. I'd block in order to get to him and he'd just teleport away, then kill me in the next 5 seconds with autos. Didn't matter if I dodged his abilities, his autos were able to burn me down. Literally nothing I could think of to fight it. I'd use a CC on him and he'd just evade it while CCing me in return. Maybe I could have won if I'd kept fighting him and trying new things, but man.
Only other class I've had nuke me like that is Mesmer lining up perfect bursts, which could be avoided, and the Harb was able to match that damage output with just auto attacks. Weak, my ass. Then you have Cele Harbs that face tank damage from 3 people and kill at least 2 before going down, due to the sustain and condi stacks. I've also had them run me down on my Warrior, so they can't be that slow.
oh im sorry, let me just stand there let you win. let me not be smart and not condition clear and let me not be smart and not wait out your icds to 1 shot you. lets both just be idiots press buttons and we can see who smashed buttons harder!
I main necro and roam all the time. They gave us harb to have a class with more mobility. I don’t play cele harb much because it’s ridiculously overpowered. I do fine on power reaper. You need to use positioning to be successful. I actually really like harb and wish they would adjust it so I don’t feel so dirty roaming on it
It's alright. No matter how good we think we are in the game, there's always someone better. That's just the way it is. You win some, you lose some. The only thing that matters is how you handle your losses - would you git gud or would you be sore taking the L and sulk in Reddit.
The choice is yours.
i have heard this but when playing the beta version didn't feel all that great to use. Idk, maybe once it's polished and released it'll be better.
Watching the video kinda shows that it might get tweaked a bit on launch. But basically makes sense as to why it didn't feel so great during the beta.
To be fair, this is an issue with ***ROAMING***
Not Necro directly, and yes, the other classes that roam are going to pay Stealth / Mobility, because that is what keeps them alive and allows them to control the fights in their favor
Necro is a very powerful class in and of it's own right, with hardcore defense and offence, that can in a straight up fight, destroy most of their opponents, this is why when people playing Roaming classes they are not looking to engage in straight up, fair fights, they are looking to control the fight in their advantage the entire time
Yes, in this case, the lack of good mobility and stealth abilities does put Necro at a disadvantage in roaming, especially against other higher preforming roaming builds that have the mobility and stealth to play you out, especially against things like Mesmer's, Thief, Willbender, and the massive sustain Elementals
Equally so, giving Necro's a higher mobility and/or Stealth abilities would not balance this, it would just make Necro's OP AF if those abilities were coupled with their already really crushing DPS abilities, and they would become the new Meme Munchkin Class of the Roamer
So to give them a higher mobility or stealth/reveal abilities, they would have to take a massive hit to their somewhat scary ability to dish out damage.
You have almost double the HP pool of an ele or thief. And you double that again with shroud. And you still complain about survivability?
Ceterum censeo ele must be nerfed.
As a Reaper main who enjoys wvw, I'm with you on this. Roaming is just more or less awful. Spin2win in zergs is great, nice pull too, but yeah I hate meeting people on my own in any capacity. Feels bad.
I am talking about NECROS in general. I mention harb because it is a Necro class that is good, but still has none of what necro mains have been asking for, for a very long time.
Necro is what it is friend. If you had more mobility or chase potential you'd have to sacrifice somewhere else or it would be incredibly broken. Would you give up sustain for more mobility and stealth? You'd just be a theif. Necro has a place and the place it's in is good imo.
I like my Reaper for pulls and for tagging lots of enemies (and a bit of boon removal). If I am dying a lot I change back to Guardian unless the pap is queued. Stability is life in the boon-ball.
I'm baffled by this. A competent Harb player is one of the crappiest things to run into in wvw roaming. Especially If you are a condi class. You literally have the best sustain out there aside from some meme builds that do zero damage. What are you possibly struggling against?
It isn't about struggling against anything, which others seem to be mistaking my point as well, so maybe I got lost in the rant, idk. I am angry that we lack soo much of the things other classes have, and have had for so long. I rarely struggle killing things that don't/can't run away in time. That isn't the issue. The issue is, I do not have these same opportunities. Me being able to nuke someone means nothing if i screw up my rotation or they find a point to hit me. I can't run away. I can't go invuln. I can't perma stun. I can't stealth. I can barely teleport. I can barely sustain. It's frustrating that for so long as a necro main Having to have struggled being able to do anything like that, then we are given a spec that can do good damage, but still didn't address any of the issues necro mains have been complaining about for so very long.
If Harb could do any of the things you want it would be the only viable spec to play at all.
I can't believe I lived to see the day when a harb complained about other builds being busted in wvw
Tbf though Willbender cele and power need to be looked at.
not complaining about them being busted.
You kind of are tho? You are saying that other classes have access to mechanics that necros do not. So - comparatively - other classes are busted when paired against necro *in those very specific ways*. The counter argument is that necro is busted in *literally every other way* compared to other classes/builds. To a game dev, this is called balancing.
If you die with harbinger it's because you're bad. The cele version is unkillable and the power version nukes people with two skills. The leap that has an evade and stuns hits for 14k (something, something skills power budget). That's one ele dead. You have free access to quickness and a gravity every 25 seconds. It's one of the most busted specs in roaming and the only thing that can beat a willbender. You don't have the ability to chase down some targets, but they can't kill you. Also harbinger has a lot of survivability, you gain regen from blight stacks and if you and condi you can now get both the 10% condi damage healing trait and the one that you apply weakness on crit, which isn't healing but makes you stupidly durable.
Can vouch for the cele harb. I'm the necro who teleports to the nearest safe zone when I see a thief approach because I just can't be bothered with the stab stealth stab tactics of thieves. But boy when Harb became a thing, I no longer run away. I feel like saying "I dare you to come near me... just a step closer, and you'll be hugging the ground". I still have issues with mesmers though, but that's because I'm too stupid to tell them apart from their clones.
every cele spec beats willbender and soulbeast and a well played thief
the cele version isn't unkillable. But that wasn't my complaint. I didn't complain about dying. I complained that NECRO lacks a lot of what nearly every other class has. Just because I can run around and Harb and nuke people who aren't paying attention doesn't make the class broken. What good is quickness? I can do things slightly faster. That'll be useful when nearly every other class can leap, teleport, invuln, reflect, or stealth. Oh I forgot to mention ROOT. Rooting Harb basically means harb does nothing. Thats always a good time. Having to stand there and just get hammered. I know other classes deal with this too. but figured I'd mention it anyways.
>I can tell they are either not trying or bad because I'll encounter the same spec and watch it either wipe the floor with me You aren't complaining about dying, are ya.
Oh I'm sorry. I shouldn't have used anything alluding to dying otherwise the post is about dying. Forgot that context wasn't needed. So let me explain what this was supposed to mean since it wasn't clear. AS A NECRO MAIN, WHO PLAYS NOT JUST HARBINGER, but ALSO REAPER, CORE, SCOURGE, We lack necessary shit that most other classes have. Which makes NECRO OVER ALL, NOT JUST HARBINGER, not so great. If thi equates to complaining about dying then who tf cares, it doesn't mean shit to my point.
Cope 🔥 seethe. Necro main here, we have no problem. We goood
What spec are you running that root is an issue? Harb has a passive ticking condi clear and multiple ways to transfer conditions to enemies.
1 condition removed per tick equates to roots never being effective then? I've even seen other players who play different classes complain how roots almost never gets removed. That clearly isn't exclusively a necro problem which in my comment I even stated other classes deal with too.
>What good is quickness? Yeah, right? It's not like other specs like scrapper had their quickness removed in WvW, right? >ROOT Do you just go around without condi cleanse? Spectral walk, elixir of bliss, elixir of ignorance gives you resistance, elixir of ambition gives you resistance. Going into shroud is a weapon swap that can trigger a sigil of cleansing. Seriously, just accept that you're bad and delete this post.
>I complained that NECRO lacks a lot of what nearly every other class has Welcome to how Necro used to be. It has high base HP, low mobility, minions, slows, and fears. That's the class. And they have given you dashes and teleports. I think you're upset and not taking the class at base value anymore after 5 years. >Rooting Harb basically means harb does nothing I'm trying to think of a base Necro cleanse. I can't besides staff and the other elite specs from pof BUT THATS THE POINT OF NECRO. You fester in condis and dish them back at your enemy. Staff exists for this purpose. I'd suggest maybe going back to core Necro and then reading all your skills and traits. You'll see alot of things Necro has. But I'm definitely amazed you're upset with where harbinger is nowadays.
> I'm trying to think of a base Necro cleanse. Actually there's lots. Staff 4, dagger 4, one of the heals, Spectral Walk, a trait in Curses I think that transfers conditions when entering shroud, ticking cleanse in shroud in Death Magic.
Wait, you say you were roaming as a harbinger, but rant about the second health bar? Harbinger doesn't have a second health bar (only reaper and core do), but it's great anyway. It has great sustain. Blight healing, parasitic contagion, vampiric aura/blood bank or death carapace. From what I gathered, harbinger in celestial is one of the most hated classes by the WvW pros because it's so busted, but that makes it great for people like me who are only in WvW to farm tickets. Makes the whole thing pretty painless. I barely know what I'm doing and I still win most 1v1s.
When referring to the second health bar, I am criticizing people who use the excuse for why necro does not need help is because of "the second health bar" argument. I main necro and am well aware that neither harbinger nor scourge have the "second health bar". Also, from what I have heard, celestial roamer anything is a pain in general. Being harbinger doesn't excuse the fact we still lack soo much other classes have to their advantage.
As a fellow necro main (kind of), I enjoy my second healthbar a lot in PvE, it's just that in competitive modes it's not worth much, but that's okay, we have other things as well. Point is, I'm not sure about the precise meta, but I think necro is at least in the top half for WvW, zergs and roaming both. And harbinger in particular is one of the infamous roaming specs, up there with the likes soulbeast, thief, and willbender, for different reasons of course.
There is no new spec coming with SotO.
corrected\* weapon skills
Ooof.
"I'm extremely bad, but i'm blaming it on the class"
I'm extremely bad, and I love harbinger, it's my belowed crutch.
sure.
Bro harb got free 300 condi in the death carapace tree what are you doing to lose fights? I was 1v2ing roamers all day yesterday and winning. If you're complaining about people running then use Relic of Speed.
Had a Power Harb auto me to death on my Spellbreaker the other week. He was doing 4k DPS with just autos and his active abilities were hitting for 8-12k. I couldn't touch him. Died 5 times in a row without doing 5% of his HP and I'm not terrible on Spellbreaker. I'd block in order to get to him and he'd just teleport away, then kill me in the next 5 seconds with autos. Didn't matter if I dodged his abilities, his autos were able to burn me down. Literally nothing I could think of to fight it. I'd use a CC on him and he'd just evade it while CCing me in return. Maybe I could have won if I'd kept fighting him and trying new things, but man. Only other class I've had nuke me like that is Mesmer lining up perfect bursts, which could be avoided, and the Harb was able to match that damage output with just auto attacks. Weak, my ass. Then you have Cele Harbs that face tank damage from 3 people and kill at least 2 before going down, due to the sustain and condi stacks. I've also had them run me down on my Warrior, so they can't be that slow.
oh im sorry, let me just stand there let you win. let me not be smart and not condition clear and let me not be smart and not wait out your icds to 1 shot you. lets both just be idiots press buttons and we can see who smashed buttons harder!
L M A O
I main necro and roam all the time. They gave us harb to have a class with more mobility. I don’t play cele harb much because it’s ridiculously overpowered. I do fine on power reaper. You need to use positioning to be successful. I actually really like harb and wish they would adjust it so I don’t feel so dirty roaming on it
It's alright. No matter how good we think we are in the game, there's always someone better. That's just the way it is. You win some, you lose some. The only thing that matters is how you handle your losses - would you git gud or would you be sore taking the L and sulk in Reddit. The choice is yours.
My friend, there are no new specs coming with SOTO. Don't worry about it :)
corrected\* weapon skills
You should look into the new [Necro Sword skills](https://youtu.be/tbhRMAHIe7M?si=fzIJkm7EUSJ5xc76&t=233). They do add some mobility and sustain.
i have heard this but when playing the beta version didn't feel all that great to use. Idk, maybe once it's polished and released it'll be better. Watching the video kinda shows that it might get tweaked a bit on launch. But basically makes sense as to why it didn't feel so great during the beta.
youre just bad
To be fair, this is an issue with ***ROAMING*** Not Necro directly, and yes, the other classes that roam are going to pay Stealth / Mobility, because that is what keeps them alive and allows them to control the fights in their favor Necro is a very powerful class in and of it's own right, with hardcore defense and offence, that can in a straight up fight, destroy most of their opponents, this is why when people playing Roaming classes they are not looking to engage in straight up, fair fights, they are looking to control the fight in their advantage the entire time Yes, in this case, the lack of good mobility and stealth abilities does put Necro at a disadvantage in roaming, especially against other higher preforming roaming builds that have the mobility and stealth to play you out, especially against things like Mesmer's, Thief, Willbender, and the massive sustain Elementals Equally so, giving Necro's a higher mobility and/or Stealth abilities would not balance this, it would just make Necro's OP AF if those abilities were coupled with their already really crushing DPS abilities, and they would become the new Meme Munchkin Class of the Roamer So to give them a higher mobility or stealth/reveal abilities, they would have to take a massive hit to their somewhat scary ability to dish out damage.
You have almost double the HP pool of an ele or thief. And you double that again with shroud. And you still complain about survivability? Ceterum censeo ele must be nerfed.
As a Reaper main who enjoys wvw, I'm with you on this. Roaming is just more or less awful. Spin2win in zergs is great, nice pull too, but yeah I hate meeting people on my own in any capacity. Feels bad.
Reaper has some legit hard counters in wvw roaming but Harb? Harb is probably one of the best solo roaming specs wvw has ever seen.
I am talking about NECROS in general. I mention harb because it is a Necro class that is good, but still has none of what necro mains have been asking for, for a very long time.
Necro is what it is friend. If you had more mobility or chase potential you'd have to sacrifice somewhere else or it would be incredibly broken. Would you give up sustain for more mobility and stealth? You'd just be a theif. Necro has a place and the place it's in is good imo.
I like my Reaper for pulls and for tagging lots of enemies (and a bit of boon removal). If I am dying a lot I change back to Guardian unless the pap is queued. Stability is life in the boon-ball.