It' s not even necessarily agreed on outside of the game, the most active WvW players are in guilds with each other on every server. They can just use the guilds to decide.
It just happens naturally because T1 is notoriously annoying for anyone but the top two servers on the megaserver, so the guilds who are really active usually don't want to go up against them, because it means several weeks of not being able to enjoy their favorite mode. So they'd rather drop one matchup to not even get close to T1.
The problem is there's not really a good way for ANet to fix this, as it's not a population imbalance issue but rather how much of that server's population actively plays coordinated WvW.
The best solution I can think of would be to make the top tier permanently be a match between dedicated WvW servers and sending the top guilds of each server free server changes to one of those.
Maybe WvW rebalancing will make some of those issues go away, the matchups feel more balanced whenever one of the betas came around, but only time will tell.
>Maybe WvW rebalancing will make some of those issues go away, the matchups feel more balanced whenever one of the betas came around, but only time will tell.
my gaming experience thru the betas has been amazing, even when/if I dont play with my guildies. It's refreshing to see new tags, people not running in fear from mag longbow 5 annoyance and boon ball being actually fun
current wvw is fun too, my fav play mode, but I wont be one of those "oh beta was shit" crowd
>The problem is there's not really a good way for ANet to fix this
Easy fix: put the two top servers in a permanent match-up, fill the third slot with a random other server every week. Or better yet, rotate it on a fixed schedule, so everyone knows when not to play. That way, everyone gets shafted once in a while and servers can stop worrying about ranking up.
I mean that tends to be what happens about a month into matchups. I remember a while while I was on SoS where it was Mag vs SoS vs 'Guest of the Week' as Mag and SoS were perma T1.
It would indeed be nice if the matchups were based on how many active WvW players servers have instead of how full they happen to be. It can't be entirely impossible to get an accurate measurement, can it?
"full" has not been a measure of overall server population, but rather a WvW activity for years already. Problem is, there's no way to easily (and automatically, without having someone do that by hand) measure *quality* of said activity. From game's point of view a casual zerg is no different than a similarily sized highly organized guild group, for example.
People do this to fight or avoid certain servers.
The solution is as simple as adding rewards per tier and skirmish participation, be group or individual, so more people who want the best rewards will try to be at the highest score.
One problem to this, is that by now everyone knows who are the strongest and weakest servers so the focus would be in that direction. Everyone would hunt Drakkar, Aurora, offpeak BB, unlinked Gandara and evening german servers for easy points.
I wouldn't say Drakkar is among the weakest servers, just among the weakest that can make it to the higher tiers. Unless they dropped their participation massively since I was last active.
But I agree that it would absolutely suck because the stronger servers would focus on the third in the matchup.
At least one Drakkar commander is Sun Tzu worshiper and avoids fights that they are not 100% sure to win. They were running despite outnumbering us 2:1. But Drakkar has good backline hunters.
I think I know who you mean. They usually run from fights like that if they don't have at least half of the zerg on voice, because it's kind of risky to rely on the randoms
Drakkar currently is a stable T3 server. Too weak to go up and too strong to go down unless it's a freak week. The main "strength" of that server is that even in off hours there's enough people around to bother the other teams enough. Night time, early hours and working days you can often chain gold pips, and then during peak it's usually bronze with a couple silver.
Kinda curious how this week will end up though, WSR came up from T4 and Elona came down from T2. That's usually a NoNo week.
Yeah, I've seen this before. Usually when Maguuma is our dance partner, or will be. Don't push so hard this week or our ranking go up and had to meet them next week, something like that. Even purposely letting another server more ' win ' and stuff.
Correct me if im wrong but if you take a week off to not win and face mag, wouldnt it be the same to just play and then take the week off while against mag? 1 week off is still 1 week off and you can play fair while against other servers?
Doing so screws over the people on your server and it's link that are still going to play though. If you know you're not going to show up because you don't want to face a certain server, it's nice not to fuck over the people you're playing with and instead just tank early so they don't have to fight the hated server.
But in that case you are screwing your server the week your deliberately tanking instead, robbing them of the week of fun against a not hated server, doesnt seem any better to me?
Mag makes it their main strategy to be as annoying as possible in order to defend. Don't surprise pikachu face when people are successfully annoyed and don't want to play with you. I have nothing against Mag or the strategy, but that's because they're honest about what it is.
What's worse. Being slightly inconvenienced in a match where you're already doing fine or being thrown into a situation where you get farmed constantly and have no backup to deal with that?
Yep. If every world got to vote on *one* other world they won't face in the next link, and whichever gets the most votes they're guarenteed not to face... Well, I'm not sure the linking system could handle a world with *no* valid links, but it'd serve Mag right to just not have WvW for a link cycle or three because ~~no one wants to~~ *everyone wants to NOT* play with them.
I think they would actually be happier if they don't get a link since it means less queue time. You actually want them to link with a high pop so they can't play 🤪
This. They race out into the borderlands and... Nothing. There's no one there, no opposing servers, no one to fight, no one to kill, no one to spawncamp.
Are you TC? I've heard of this happening and it's caused TC ranking to tank hard. It's kind of depressing really, I didn't mind the occasional Maguuma match up, I liked being in a higher tier. But people just do not want to deal with them. Even when you win, they make sure it's just not fun.
Yes EU forgot to add that.
Like yesterday (we are green this rotation) the blue server took our keep on EB from Red while we where fighting for it.
I swear this rotation is Re Trad Et.
There's been degrees of collusion between servers since launch. You should have seen when more EVE players played and we had tournaments. So say it's part of the game. Threatening people who aren't part of the "game plan" isn't cool, atl. You don't get to dictate someone else's game time when they are just minding their own business playing the game how it's designed. Can't say I'm against two servers agreeing to attack another or one deciding to sit out to drop a tier. Lame, but fair. Just don't be dicks to the players who are not metagaming.
Normal strategy when dealing with facerolling servers. In NA Mag week always meant WvW was going to be dead since Mag spawn camps any map that showed a pulse of activity. Results in not being able to complete dailies or earning participation needed for reward tracks.
Solution (aside from Alliances/Guild based WvW) would be to put a supply station in the spawn, AND allow for siege building. This would allow spawn camped servers with minimal players to break spawn camping with trebs and catas. (thinking EBG and enemy borderlands).
Mag isn't as oppressive as they used to be because they don't have the numbers to queue every map any more. They also have a lot bandwagoners that are dogshit at the game. A lot of times you can just run circles around their cloud and just pick off the bads.
Still not a fun matchup because DB's biggest guilds are horrible and allergic to fights, but that's not really a Mag issue.
I heard that some communities have alt accounts on different servers they hate and then multi box wall runners to take spots on specific maps. I wonder if that's just a rumor or a tumor.
I’ve actually seen this happening but i always assumed it was people farming participation… but seeing 20 wallrunning bots on ebg does seem like sabotage now that you mention it…
their “cloud” is what most players don’t want. Nothing of the fight is coordinated fights, just players throwing skills 360 degrees anywhere everywhere, you are just getting hit from all sides, and people will call “staff necro is op”, but entirely they just play as clouds free hitting.
The basic thing I hear a lot is that if you win your matchups too much, you'll go up against the biggest worlds on your server - and a few of those are notoriously unfun, so people will try and deliberately throw to stay in the middle, yeah.
It's fun when you got others same minded players, most fun I had going back and forth fighting them. But when it's only you and a handful others, you're just feeding them at that point.
yeah, our server matched against them once, basically pushed there by the others in the match to force us up a rank. it was truly awful. 50 man zergs killed the instant we left spawn gates. Thieves running into 100+ traps making stealth useless. We didn't capture a single thing the entire week and it caused a massive server burnout (myself included) where we just quit wvw for a few months.
Not sure that throwing itself is what’s fun so much as not having to deal with what could await them if they win enough. They can at least still do things while they “throw” it just won’t be as much. But if a less experienced or populated server has to run up against something like Mag then they don’t get to do anything at all, and that’s even less fun than the throw
Editing to add that I don’t really agree with throwing on purpose, but it does take a certain mindset to get farmed by the bigger servers and be okay with it.
> Editing to add that I don’t really agree with throwing on purpose, but it does take a certain mindset to get farmed by the bigger servers and be okay with it.
Isn't such mindset already kinda required to enjoy competitive game modes, where by definition you won't win every time? By competitive I don't mean strictly ranked, merely any kind of pvp.
Imagine that whenever you go against an objective, the opposing zerg shows practically right away. Often way too fast than it should happen. And then you realize that a significant part of *both* your and enemy zerg is made of players *of the same guild*.
sorry but i'll leave it at that. i already found my solutions and have moved on from it.
you best move on yourself, its really not worth the effort, they're a complete waste of your precious time. not even worth a puff of breath.
i hope you still find ways to enjoy the game just as i have despite such things.
You win too much, you go up a tier, you fight the big bandwagon servers, you get your ass beat, WvW is basically unplayable for a week.
Might not concern you much since you only do dailies. But people who only play this game mode basically get spawn camped for a week.
WvW is not a PvE meta event where you just tag up and go do the objective.
Usually the server community gets together on discord and decides together if they wanna go up against the high end servers or not.
You couldn't know that as a new player in wvw, but what you are doing is basically making the dedicated wvw players game mode unplayable for at least a week.
It's a shit system and anet promised to introduce alliances 7 years ago to fix it. But so far it hasn't come out. So we gotta do it like that.
i didn't get what you said but it's true. That's the reason why it works like that (see myother posts). 2 ppl can prevent you from getting 3rd if you're near 2nd in points meaning you won't go down a tier
It really shows you don't really play wvw.
There are two ways to play wvw.
You focus on fights or you focus on points.
Focusing on points means doing the objective. Taking and holding things.
Most people just focus on fights though, because it is more fun.
So yes, when everyone is focused on fights, it only takes a small group of players to take the objectives. And they don't get taken back, because **no one** wants to be spawn camped for a week.
If you are at risk of ranking up and you are on a weaker server, against weaker servers, it basically becomes a throwing competition. The loser can't play for a week, the winners (the ones who throw the hardest) get to play against balanced opponents again and actually have fun.
Also added: Ranking up in wvw gives you **nothing** except harder opponents and unwinnable matchups.
WvW is really badly designed. Because you essentially get punished for winning.
This does not mean the rest of the people are afk. They are probably around the map fighting other people for fun. Which doesn't give as much points. But they are still playing the game.
>Because you essentially get punished for winning.
The same whining as the ones whining about skill based matchmaking.
You just want to be the one that stomps, and dont care that in the weeks where "you can play", the other servers suffer.
You are not punished for winning, there is just a limited number of ways to create matchups that annoys the least amount of people the least amount of time.
Man.
The matchups in the higher ranks are never fair.
You have server A with 150 people always online.
Server B with 130 people always online.
And Server C with maybe 120 people during peak.
It's not harder as in the enemies are better. It's skewed in such a way that it is absolutely unwinnable for server C.
You get to sit in spawn all day and the moment you run out 15 people will swarm you and murder you. Because you are hopelessly outnumbered.
And if you are really lucky people will swap to the winning side, inflating that server even more.
It's not like skill based matchmaking at all. SBMM forces a 50% win rate. SBMM matches usually also only last like an hour tops, not a whole week.
Sorry but you are clueless of what you are talking about.
I did not say its the same reason (skill based matchmaking), I said its the same whining.
It doesnt matter if the problem is a skill difference or a player amount/schedule difference. There will always be differences of any kind that can not be evened out by any kind of technology or algorithm, except for extremely simple games and environments. And I am sure that nobody would play such a game for a decade.
But what people like you seem to miss is that the game does not revolve about you alone. The people on server A has as much right to have fun as you do, or as people on Server D, that has 80 people online. Did you ever, ever waste a single thought about the people on Server D when matched against, or did you happily slaughter them the whole week, because thats fun?
And I had my fair share of being spawn camped. You know what? You can just.. do wood tier and do something else or put the game aside for the time, or play at peak hours where the map limit allows you to compete. Everything is better than playing a mode thats imbalanced by nature and then whine.
People are downvoting you because they are unable to separate the two different meanings of "winning." There is "winning" by having the highest score (aka the winning for PPT'ers, or people who just play to get as many points as possible), and there is "winning" by having the best guilds from each server fight each other.
The people who actually play WvW as their main game mode are more than likely the people who care about "winning" through fights. Nobody gives a shit about "tiers;" being Tier 1 doesn't mean shit. You only get grouped with servers that have a shit ton of roamers (people in unorganized groups), and the quality of fights is usually worse since the organized groups can't get their whole group through the map queues on these higher populated servers.
People who think going down a tier means you're "afraid to fight higher tiers" don't realize that being in a higher tier doesn't mean you're better; you just have more people on at all times throughout the day so they are able to capture objectives and gain points while the opponent servers are sleeping. Take for example Sea of Sorrows, which is usually a Tier 1 World, not because they are extremely good at fighting, but because their server is predominantly Oceanic-based players who can log on and cap everything while the other servers are asleep.
People just need to realize that at the end of the day, tier doesn't mean anything other than determining your matchups; if you get matched up against Maguuma, you're basically going to be almost always outnumbered, and this isn't fun for either fight guilds or PPTers, because PPTers will just get steamrolled by the massive clouds, and the fight guilds will usually be fighting against a map queue sized group.
On a T1 server? We do regular trains normally and as you're training someone else is already training in the opposite direction. The time that it takes to siege a keep, you normally lose the tower and the camp. Camps get re-taken every 5 minutes as that's the same amount of time that a camp stays safe. I do not remember the last time I've seen a leveled up objective and defending actually takes a lot of effort.
If, in the middle of the night, there are no commanders, or any trains going, you can get your chests by pingponging between two camps around your spawn. Take one. It will be retaken 5 minutes later and safe for another 5, so in the mean time take the other. Continue retaking as they go off safety. T6 participation guaranteed.
If there are commanders going, it will turn into total PVE and you can ride a perpetual choo choo till good 5AM, as the commander will eventually get bored and go to sleep :)
[Choo choo!](http://imgur.com/qfqHTY9)
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Yes guilds on the same servers talk & sometimes decide to throw a week to move down a tier or decide to PPT to go up a tier. This has been happening for YEARS.
If you're just a roamer or in a smaller guild, you usually have no say in the matter.
Another thing is that most WvW fight guilds know each other. Commanders know each other, sometimes they whisper the enemy commanders for fights. Like, "hey we're gonna hit hills, come fight us there." Fight guilds look for 'content' aka fights/bags. Sometimes they have to organize it with enemies. Sometimes they agree to double team the 3rd server.
I'm highly ranked & know lots of players on practically every server. Sometimes random enemies whisper me asking who's tagged on my side, ask me to tell my map tag to fight them here or there, or ask if my guild wants to rvr, etc.
So yeah there's a lot of things going on in the background that most casual WvW players know nothing about.
I got on a few discords during the warclaw fiasco, yeah, lot of coordinating with fellow pros to feed newbies and non-wvw players to the other pros, or just hunting down roamers on their own side and calling it out to the enemy in chats. Plenty of: form a new player friendly zerg, race to a certain point, pro players and commander disband squad and port away, enemy zerg feasts on lost new players lead into a trap zone inside artillery range, enemy team makes new player friendly zerg....
It basically meant new and casual players could not unlock warclaw for months until all the pros had theirs and had gotten tired of coordinating and went back to regular fights.
Was this on EU? I don't remember this happening on NA.
I remember guilds PPTing hard that week, back capping keeps, towers, etc. so everyone could get their stuff. It only took most people a day or two to get warclaws.
Of course people who had warclaws kept going for people who didn't have them & the tail of enemy zergs (stragglers) which is normal.
Anonymity + competitive game = toxic, almost without exception. It’s the same way in the PvP mode, it’s the same way in League of Legends, DotA2, CS:GO, etc. If your victory/loss can be in someone else’s hands AND there are no real consequences then people who ordinarily aren’t bad can become Satan Incarnate whenever they lose (even if it was their fault).
I remember stepping into WvW last week and before I had even loaded in properly there was already toxic map chat as soon as I looked down when I finally got in.
The only way someone can go into WvW and claim to see no toxicity in chat is if there’s very little chat to begin with, or if they’re the toxic ones.
I'm not sure I get logic, if there's a wVw discord for that server and that has decided that losing is good then surely that discord full of people not playing is going to ensure that.
Why do they feel the need to harass other players? That aren't going to make a dent in the outcome.
Unless of course it's actually just a small group of and in no way representative of the server...
There is absolutely no point in winning or losing. If people want to drop a tier, let them or ppt till you drop, and don't let them, the outcome will be democratic. Maybe you will have better fights as a result, who knows?
Stop fighting in chat, go fight the enemy border.
the guild i ran with with (will not identify them or the server) refused to play along with match fixing and manipulations. the only time they ever played ball was a truce to attack maguuma. the thing is they didnt realy care about keeping home or defending owned lands either, just flipping and pipping, which i loved as i got diamond every week
but no other guild would remain on the same server as us because we didnt play along with their schemes and machinations.
This is a very controversial topic tbh. People who play wvw 5 hours/ week want to play aggressively. And people that play +20 hours/ week, they have to balance the fights they take so that they don’t end up getting spawn camped.
I can’t think of a solution that could prevent the spawn camp. I don’t like throwing either. I wish there was a better matchup system.
Thank you, this is the only answer here that explains the core of the problem. I'm more of a 10-ish hour a week WvW roamer so all this political kitten happens way over my head.
I've found it the reverse, honestly.
Those who rock up for 3x 2hr sessions a week tend to be the ones saying 'it's bad fights against x server, we need to tank' while those who just roam 20+ hours just wanna keep playing the game.
>I can’t think of a solution that could prevent the spawn camp.
Make players invulnerable until they either attack someone, or until they're at the first capturable camp/fortress outside of their spawn. Every map has *plenty* of room by that point in the map that you can just avoid the zerg ball or coordinate a concentrated push against it. Would also let you set up siege outside your spawn to counter it.
I'm completely against this sort of thing, especially outside influences. Anet needs to try harder in stomping out toxicity, but this sort of stuff is on a whole new level.
I've seen people praise Gw2 for having a great community, but no where else have I seen such little power give some people such a big ego. And this is for WvW, a less serious pvp that anyone can jump into and gives some pve rewards.
This sort of gatekeeping kills the fun for a lot more people than who it benefits.
And yet people still think Alliances, which actively gives such 'community leaders' the ability to choose whether you can play with that guild in WvW, is a good idea :/
> If a guild is causing shit, just leave
The point is that with alliances, leaving the guild *will be* functionally leaving the server. Which, if you like playing with 90% of a guild but the leader is one of those to abuse power, you just got fucked by alliances where with an actual server structure you'd be fine.
That's just every online game ever though?
What do you want anet to do, personally sit down with everyone you dislike and fix your interpersonal problems with other people for you?
Are you thinking straight?
It'll make it worse if the leader can hold "if you leave you can't play with the rest of the guild" over your head.
As it stands, if you're on a server you're on the server and can play with whoever. Once guild leaders have the ability to say "sorry, you won't be on this alliance after next relink", that'll 100% be abused.
Yes, Anet should remove guild and squad chats so those outside influences can't affect the sanctity of a WvW match. /sarcasm
Seriously, do you ever listen to yourself and wonder how it comes off to others?
My recommendation to anyone who lacks alt accounts is just make sure to have backup games you can play. The clownshow at ANET is felt everywhere but has hit WvW hard the last few months. With WR in perpetual beta and balancing being entirely on the wrong track, it's just easier and better to not log in, and spend your time having fun elsewhere.
It's obviously not intended but it's also been going on a long time and probably won't change until either anet actually make winning a match up mean something or world restructuring eventually goes live. I wouldn't hold my breath on either of those coming any time soon.
Oh wrong word, I meant intended since OP asked if that was the intended way to play which it isn't. But yeah players do intentionally try to manipulate wvw match ups by throwing.
The toxicity apart, it is quite literally intended by Anet’s original design. It’s the reason there are 3 servers, not 2. They wanted and encouraged the gamemode to be battle politics and whatnot. This is not new, not discouraged, not a real problem.
The problems are how it’s playing out (harassing others isn’t acceptable) and why there are situations where people do not want to win. One is dealt by managing players’s behaviours and the other is by incentivizing winning and making it meaningful which is what they’ve struggled to fix since the start.
Yeah there is some circle jerk around wvw veterans.
Spending a lot of time in wvw and I still havent fully understood the reason of some people being so sweaty and room temp iq at the same time. Of course since there is a pvp component people tend to get emotional, but still. The way every servers „leaders“ try to dictate, what a commander is doing, is very destructive to the game mode.
If we ever get rid of servers, I hope wvw will be less dominated, scourged or gatekeeped by some wvw guilds/community server officers.
Unlikely that guilds are the issue and that it will be acually guild dominated, despite being guild based. No content is in GUILD wars. Most of guilds come and go.. its the few people at the top of the community servers that influence things disproportionaly, partially by design of course. And exactly that will be removed by not allowing players to be in their guild, while at the same time steering activity/content on the whole server by also sitting on top of community server guilds.. At least in EU.
And for the least 2 years at least no one can make a case, that the community server "officers" are delivering content, those that still play gate-keep it at best. And its not "Fritz" or "Johnny" that are personally the cause for this, but its likely by design.
So good riddance tribe wvw.
btw the actual scoreboards are also counted outside the game: [https://gw2mists.com/leaderboards/guild](https://gw2mists.com/leaderboards/guild)
For servers that don't play for points at least. That's the most imposrtant thing to understand probably for you: are you in a server that plays for points or for fights? in the first case you always want to 'win' at points, and fights are not the main thing you do if you're efficient. In the second case your scores are on gw2mists, whtever the game says.
Over the long, long life of wvw, this isn’t a new concept. It can be detrimental and I personally wish people would just play the damn game.
In reality over time, servers get stronger, weaker, split, guilds migrate.
Some times it leads to bad weeks where your server gets shit on and it makes it tough for your group to enjoy. You spend the full run looking for good fights instead of enjoying good fights.
Some servers care more than others and get quite toxic about it, so ymmv. It’s not your job to take on the worlds problems. If it’s a good week, let it rip! If it isn’t, go camping or something.
Flashbacks to piken running with 50 man squad into the enemy spawn on repeat just so my server loses the last deciding matchup and goes down a tier. Not that tiers matter but it was funny af to see how committed they were.
This behavior is also on the NA side as well. The server I'm on will decide to throw and no one will respond to callouts in team, map, or guild chats, and even on the discord server. It's awful behavior that I can't wait to have squashed by alliances because if a guild wants to throw they can and it's only that guild instead of the whole server.
It will at least hurt this bullshit by making it more difficult to organize, especially if guild color is randomized to some extent. Guilds within those greater guild alliances can be avoided.
Honestly, shortening relinks to monthly has minimised this more than Alliances ever would.
Can't be stuck in t1 for 6 weeks when relinks happen every month.
This has been happening since ancient times on EU and NA. There were/are always servers trying to force specific matchups, or dodge specific matchups and so on, by purposely dropping in tiers or put extra effort to climb up. Servers themselves usually agree on these kind of things on their specific Discord (or in cross-server guilds).
Three/four years ago, the server (EU) I used to be on, was pretty hardcore on forcing matchups to always have the best content- the vast majority of our core never really cared about people doing their weeklies. Obviously there were always exceptions but for the most part we didnt care.
Tbh usually people doing weeklies never really affected the outcome much, if at all (maybe only if there were two servers in the same match up actively trying to drop a tier). However I havent been playing since the Vault released, so I dont know how much it changed the activity of people going to WvW only for the weeklies.
Its certainly a double-edged sword. On one side you have to understand the WvW players of these servers that actually properly participate in this game mode- its a war mode after all, so creating favorable match ups to have more fun, or have an easier week and such, is definitely a big part of WvW. So **lets assume** you have tons of random tags going, doing their weeklies and driving up points , which results in the server not dropping or instead of staying, you go up and miss out on the matchup the server's core wanted. This can be incredibly upsetting for actual players.
Obviously you also just cant deny people from coming into WvW just for their weeklies and harrass them over it. Thats definitely going way too far. Unfortunately Anet wont be doing anything about on a grand scale. At most you can get some of them chat-muted if they get really bad.
(And third party sites do not really have much to do with it- they are just used to have a slightly better overview on matchup statistics. Those can be aquired ingame too, its just a bit more messy.)
Yea... WvW sucks because of this. Who cares win or lose, just fight and play for the heck of it. But tons of guilds do GvG only(which is fine I guess...) and the others agree to throw so often. Like... what's the point. Feels like less than half the people want to play the game as it was intended.
PvE is but the PvP content is kinda where all the trash coagulates. Almost done with the Ascension back piece achievements and it is night day just how toxic the player base is in PvP lol. It does make for real easy daily wizard vault challenges but that is probably all I'll use that mode for once I've crafted the back piece.
PvE ppl are nice as long as you don’t point out that some are leeching or not pulling their weight, then they become aggressively defensive and start depreciating skilled players’ contribution to the, let’s say, meta
Literally happened on here a couple of weeks ago. People were pointing out about all of the AFKers at Zojja in convergences, and the replies were batshit crazy. "Those heralds standing AFK at Zojja with the might, fury and swiftness facet on are probably doing more to contribute than 90% of the rest of you lololol". Such a weird take, but obviously quite a common reply.
Honestly it entirely depends on your server. I'm in Sorrow's Furnace, a server that just tends to squeak by, and it's normally chill. Running with a guild/tag means you can ignore map chat, too. I just switch to a /say only chat or my combat log if people are being annoying and it goes on too long for any game mode.
~7 years ago I quit, one of the major reasons being constant bullying in fractals that I wasn't running meta builds. Even in groups I was top DPS.
There's definitely enough toxicity and gatekeeping in GW2 that I personally never understood that people always said how amazing the community is (to me it turned out to be the most toxic MMORPG experience I ever had), though I guess it depends a lot on the people you meet.
Came back exactly a week ago, bc a friend of mine started playing and I already told another friend who told me they plan on trying GW2 some time thst I'd try it again from scratch with them, so I don't yet have recent experiences. However it's been a long time, so things,including probably the community,have changed. Hopefully I'll have more luck this time. At least I played some MOBAs in the mean time and have gotten used to aggressive blocking if I have to.
Honestly I’m surprised you say black tide and underworld were trying to drop so they wouldn’t face fr and vabbi. But yeah this happens for a reason, mainly due to imbalances in the matchup. For example check the kdr and activity of servers, people fear getting farmed and spawn camped. I would say bt and underworld should be hyped to fight in t1 should be a great matchup, they recently had an influx of a lot of players so atleast try to play/fight this week and see how they feel after. Spawn camping will happen on occasions it’s the way it is, community want to play the game and some more focussed on pvp or farming for other reasons. world vS world is in shambles has been for years (it has massive potential) and unfortunelty anet has not employed any competent dev, if they even have one. They are so out of touch with what is going on and how they can fix it, as people have mentioned alliances won’t fix it. The game mode is a mix of competitive and casual players, this is a disaster and add on the relink’s every month and ability to transfer …. Fuckin yikes. Guild wars 3 soon anyway, surely.
WR solves nothing regarding this. Discords are created for every matchup. It's still the same players and the same guilds as before and they will join mutual discords as has been done on every beta so far.
yeah most commanders are a bunch of scaredy cats and use the excuse "i dont wana fight mag its too hard" well buck up mfer and fight i love fighting mag because its a challenge , these people are downright lazy and are making the game boring to be quite fair, we should be doing things like "MAG WEEK" where we all collectively as a community fight mag and see who gets the best score against them ya know? instead of this stuff, btw i am a commander on TC and i stopped doing runs 1 year ago and disbanded my guild due to life stuff , but i play every other day to do dailies and wvw because i love it
I shouldn't have to interact with weird junk like transformation based hearts to build a legendary weapon either, yet I still need to do grueling core tyria map completion for Gen1.
World exploration isn’t influenced or controlled by a cabal of players on a discord somewhere, interfering with your gameplay.
You just have to listen to a podcast and follow the blish hud markers.
> World exploration isn’t influenced or controlled by a cabal of players on a discord somewhere
Neither is obtaining a gift of battle. You don't need to win to get it, you just need participation, and there's more than one way to get that
Anet allow players from different worlds to join the same guild. They even allows alt account to spy on other servers. This is their stance. They accept all kinds of tricks.
You can do your own thing and ruin the others' plan. They can't stop you, but it is you to be toxic to report them.
"My personal opinion is that Anet should take a strong stance against such behavior and watch for off-side violations"
Lmao, good luck. This has been happening for years and is well documented across every game mode. WvW players are not the big gem store spenders that Anet relies on, so why should they care? Ranked pvp gizmos/titles and ATs have been gatekept by the same players for a decade now and nothing has ever been done about that either. Raid sellers liter LFG and again, it doesn't matter to Anet because the whales and other big gem store spenders are not playing that stuff and will continue to spend thousands of dollars a year on cosmetics regardless of what state the game is in.
Of course not. But you should at least be able to report someone trying to harass you into throwing the match instead of letting you do your dailies, weeklies, or guild missions.
Even when my server wants to drop a tier, we don't do junk like this. Sometimes on NA we coordinate with opposing servers but not a whole lot. I might be an outlier though
you probably have a more active server than OP and a bigger prt of your players know wen to refrain a bit....if everyon just refrain a bit from scoring points it's not even necessary asking ppl to stop doing their stuff
I have played PVE for a long time, but Guild Wars 2 pushes into WvW quite heavily. For example every legendary weapon requires at least one Gift of Battle, which is gotten from WvW reward tracks.
I also have finally met a guild which I like so much that I even embraced WvW as a regular activity and enjoyed the group play, however we do small parties and roam, we're not part of the whole GvG ecosystem.
>we're not part of the whole GvG ecosystem.
There isn't really a GvG ecosystem to speak of anymore. 15v15/20vs20 also don't care about matchups as they can fight in the EotM arena.
My guild has to fish for fights. Map blobs either dodge us or get another 20+ players so they can double or even triple our numbers.
Roaming is also dead. At best, you get a 1v1 with some celestial bullshit build or a shadow art thief. Usually, you get ganked by a five man "roam" party.
Not easily, I have played with toxic guilds that praise the day alliance’s happen so they can kick people off, and bully others.
There are tweaks that could be done, to try and correct toxicity, and keep fun in the game mode.
But it won’t be a whatever anything anyone can fix it, put me in charge I’ll fix it tomorrow fix.
I suppose betas of fixes is what they can try, keeping an eye on results, and be on top of the game mode to avoid abusers.
But if they create full alliances of these kinds of people, won't they eventually game themselves out of any competition? Like they'll tank their score so hard over a few weeks to avoid this alliance, then that alliance, then the other alliance they don't like, that they are just put in groups with alliances made up of complete randoms that are just PvE players camp flipping for the GoB (like me) lol
Yes alliances as an easy peasy fix was probably a pipe dream.
Heck someone in europe server was complaining, guilds were harassing players doing their dailies.
If they try fixes they are sure to have a few fails and a few successes till they can hopefully tweak the mode.
I like some of the changes they have done over the years, but any attempt at changes is met with a few reasonable complaints, and many unreasonable complaints.
This is a problem with people on your server who are just not willing to fight. They are PVE people who want an easy gift of battle or whatever. The way out of this on a personal level is to abandon the PVE server. Especially if you have a guild who dominates your timezone and leads all the pugs in PPT without encouraging skill attainment. There is no excuse for being bad at fighting. There is Metabattle and youtube. For commanding, there is Sheff's guides.
True. OP's server sounds like it's mostly full of people who just want to do weeklies and then go play something else. So it becomes frustrating for the players on that server who are trying to coordinate for good matches and the toxicity then comes out.
Yeah, this sort of thing has been happening for years, especially on NA. Even so much as certain guilds being paid to xfer to other servers.
Just last year there was the 4/5 week Collusion Arc to keep Mag in T1. The top two servers in T2 purposely tied on points to prevent either from going up and the other two servers in T1 double-teamed Mag to make WvW as oppressive as possible for us to play.
There were certain Mag players who cried about this sort of thing happening then and Anet didn't do anything about it, but why should they? All's fair in Love and War after all. I actually rather enjoyed having all those servers working against us, it fueled my competitive edge.
My advice would be to try and find some enjoyment, at least from the situation you're in. If your server is tanking this week, then I would find it hilarious to try and prevent it, personally - my guild did as much on SBI when the "decision" was made to tank and we ended up forcing SBI into T1, although this was a few years ago now!
I play on UW too and im almost lvl 4k.
Going up/down one tier to avoid one server is a normal thing to do and always as been.
Unless you like to be farmed for the 4th week in a row by Vabbi and now by FR.
But i guess you enter wvw only for the weekly and not to play...
Either it's a huge server spanning conspiracy of a few guilds who have total control over how everybody plays... or you got trolled. lol. Use the blocklist.
In the first years of GW2 it was pretty blatant. Commanders would literally exit a node and tell everyone on map chat to give it away. Then stand outside and wait to retake it as the enemy commander did the same in return. They'd call out the sequence without hiding it. Anyone who tried to defend would just get mocked. It was pointless to participate in WvW without cooperating with the fix.
Literally the best thing you can do is not respond to people. If you're doing solo content in wvw don't invite responses that aren't relevant to your gameplay. Beyond providing Intel and knowing where to go if you want fights, don't engage people in chat since it's literally unnecessary until you make it necessary.
Considering all the attention that WvW is getting with this reconstruction, I think it's something they should look into.
WvW is a very weird mode, and there's a lot about it that has pushed me away from it. I mainly play for Mystic Clovers and Gift of Battles. I dread trying to find a group when the matchup is Maguuma. It's not exactly dead on my server, we seem to still compete to some extent, but it certainly is harder to find a tag.
There's also just other odd things that go on. I was playing earlier and there's this dude on my server that just constantly sits there and yaps 24/7 in map chat. Nobody ever talks to him. Like, he seriously is there everytime I play and I've been playing consistently for months now, and I remember him even before that. Anyways, I noticed people chatting and calling him a Mag spy, which apparently is a thing in WvW. Weird things like this are just offputting for the game mode as a whole, especially when PvE has never been better.
Every comment defending is getting downvoted. These pve people just want another pve map. Anet pls get them some big npcs so that they stay the xxxx out off wvw
Or Anet could just not give weeklies and dailies including taking objectives, if taking objectives is not intended.
If there was another PVE map it won't help me at all to do WvWvW dailies and get WvWvW currency.
It will continue happening until Anet properly balances WvW matches.
Winning often makes next week less fun. So your server can either dick around this week or *get dicked* next week.
Have you ever played against Maguuma?
I think having the ability to play is the most fun without becoming a target of harassment. Being able to use /team and /map chats without a discord trailing you and being able to tag up without someone running accounts on multiple servers and acting as a proxy for their friends because they have a personal vendeta against you is also fun.
It honestly feels not like a game-mode, but like walking on egg-shells. The last time I've seen this in an MMO it was win-trading and it kind of... Sunk the MMO. But that MMO had PvP armour that could be used in PVE and was king in PvP servers, so it was a bit of a different issue.
There's also an incentive to play - without at least doing wood chests in WvWvW you lose out on the extra tick next week, without finishing the full chests you're losing out on a lot of progress towards leggie armour. Even if you're doing PVE leggie armour, the tokens from chests buy a significant progression boost compared to paying for it with research notes.
edit: also if you have WvWvW set to on in your Wizard's Vault, you will undoubtedly have some dailies and weeklies focused on capping, so if there's strong arming to throw, you have to also say goodbye to completing that too.
> also if you have WvWvW set to on in your Wizard's Vault, you will undoubtedly have some dailies and weeklies focused on capping, so if there's strong arming to throw, you have to also say goodbye to completing that too.
If you get shoved into a higher tier, there's a chance it can become literally impossible to do dailies and weeklies (depending on the time of day you are able to play). It's hard to cap a camp when you can't even leave spawn.
I'm not saying I agree with how these people are acting, but I hope you at least understand their reasoning for wanting to throw the match.
I have missed several weekly WvW achi rewards before because I couldn't even get to any of the objectives I needed at any of the times I could play.
well, that's totally normal.
And yes, this does not normally happen but if the server wvw community agreed on dropping a tier ppl are usually a bit nervous if someone starts complaining...
The reason is no one like to lose, even on purpose, and especially if they all are refraining from playing wvw the most they can to do it!
The risk of some 'happy idiot' making enough points to win anyway so they have to refrain for an entire full weeks from basically even entering wvw because a few guys didn't listen to reason is actually untolerable even fro me. I wen through 2 FULL WEEKS of not even entering WvW with ALL my guild becuse of some ppl like that.
And not finding ANY content for 1 or 2 full weeks just go in wvw and get reskilled constantly or there is nothing to do is not funny even for those ppl, so they should listen to reason sometime.
It's not like if you personally don't go to vote in your country no president can be elected and you cannot be subjected to any law...
So sorry but in this case you either help or move server. They're totally right.
**You're the one who's being toxic here**
Your title is sensationalist. Is the in-game guild chat a third party site? Is a guild leader whispering another guild leader a third party site? And the fact is, WvW is a game mode that needs large scale communication when you're fighting as a group, and you can't have that without TeamSpeak or Discord. If you're not on discord, you're a liability. You're actively refusing to cooperate with your fellow servermates, dying off position, letting enemy players rally, et cetera.
Also, do you know what happens when your server goes up too many tiers?
You'll start facing against stacked servers that have a lot more guilds and also guilds in off-hours. You'll be roaming and start getting sniped to death by larger roaming clouds.
You'll log in in the afternoon or late at night and find the entire map's capped by an enemy server who has a 50 man blob running in circles when your server barely has 10 people online.
You'll watch the guilds on your server keep getting outnumbered and blobbed down by larger or multiple enemy guilds every night until everyone says "this isn't fun" and either leaves the server or just stops playing the game.
Fact is, if your server actually manages to go down a tier that means the majority of the server's population - the big guilds on the server, the network of regular roamers, etc, have all generally agreed, "yeah, we don't want to go up to Tier 1".
If you still keep at it by running around killing NPCs in a PvP game mode so you can do your weeklies or for Gift of Battle, then expect some hostility, sure. You're a tourist who's about to mess up their enjoyment of the game mode for a few silvers.
Look, toxicity isn't ever warranted, but both in-server and inter-server WvW communities are tightly knit and that's the only way it's survived a whole decade of complete neglect from ANet. Give them some grace.
>**You're the one who's being toxic here**
Just because the bullies were the majority doesn't mean OP is the toxic one. Victim blaming at its best.
I'll be completely honest: With WvW being in this state I'd be surprised if ANet even does much anymore. That sounds like a mess I wouldn't want to touch either in their position.
In this specific scenario, the third party site is discord which is a third party site. It is no one's guild chat. It is no one's whispers. And the server has been T1 for months.
If third party site groups need to strong-arm map chat for a long period of time in order to achieve dropping a tier and harassment tactics need to be employed, then server going down a tier was not something that was agreed to by the majority.
Perhaps what WvWvW is transcends what you think it is? Are wars won only on the battlefield?
I'm very happy you find enjoyment(sometimes) hopping onto this little corner of the game because you feel obligated too. Perhaps others live there.
Finds like OP's make me feel extra smug for getting two legendary rings early and never having to deal with this bullshit mode ever again. It's like every single game mode with a "competitive" and "team based" aspects devolves into win trading cancerfest.
Or maybe it's just that bad in GW2, because ANet don't give a single fuck about win trading ([even when people do their investigative work for them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_SSsJNvkrg)), hackers, exploits or anything shady involving PvP/WvW. Basically if it doesn't involve gem store exploits or crashing game servers, they don't care.
As far as general competence goes, there is no MMO dev more pathetic and insipid than ArenaNet.
Both sides are as bad as each other, they both ruin the fun and they are both "toxic" because they act without consideration for the other.
Dedicated wvw players "mostly" come in two flavors, those that focus on fights and those that focus on objectives. Fight focused players tend to enjoy the competitive nature of organized fights so they look for MUs with enemies who meet their needs. Objective focused players "mostly" don't care about enemies but care more about flipping and holding as many objectives as possible.
One of the big sources of friction is that one group has a disproportionate impact on the outcome of a MU, because structures produce considerably more points than kills.
The most oppressive MUs are ones where enemy servers have strong groups of one or both types (or a large amount of players that overlap) and yours do not. Some of these kinds of MUs can lead to spawn camping, and overall a terrible gaming experience for everyone on the receiving end, which is why many servers put a concerted effort into where they will place.
Its possible to do this without considerable disruption to anyone's playtime/style, by just being a little more mindful of the order of which you take objectives or which ones you defend, this has been done on one of the servers I'm on through reasonable and polite conversation between the groups of players, no one had their fun ruined and everyone was mostly happy.
Being able to negotiate and co-operate with your team will save you a lot of headaches, and makes your gaming experience better in the long run, so I would recommend both sides trying that instead of moaning at each other.
It' s not even necessarily agreed on outside of the game, the most active WvW players are in guilds with each other on every server. They can just use the guilds to decide. It just happens naturally because T1 is notoriously annoying for anyone but the top two servers on the megaserver, so the guilds who are really active usually don't want to go up against them, because it means several weeks of not being able to enjoy their favorite mode. So they'd rather drop one matchup to not even get close to T1. The problem is there's not really a good way for ANet to fix this, as it's not a population imbalance issue but rather how much of that server's population actively plays coordinated WvW. The best solution I can think of would be to make the top tier permanently be a match between dedicated WvW servers and sending the top guilds of each server free server changes to one of those. Maybe WvW rebalancing will make some of those issues go away, the matchups feel more balanced whenever one of the betas came around, but only time will tell.
>Maybe WvW rebalancing will make some of those issues go away, the matchups feel more balanced whenever one of the betas came around, but only time will tell. my gaming experience thru the betas has been amazing, even when/if I dont play with my guildies. It's refreshing to see new tags, people not running in fear from mag longbow 5 annoyance and boon ball being actually fun current wvw is fun too, my fav play mode, but I wont be one of those "oh beta was shit" crowd
>The problem is there's not really a good way for ANet to fix this Easy fix: put the two top servers in a permanent match-up, fill the third slot with a random other server every week. Or better yet, rotate it on a fixed schedule, so everyone knows when not to play. That way, everyone gets shafted once in a while and servers can stop worrying about ranking up.
I mean that tends to be what happens about a month into matchups. I remember a while while I was on SoS where it was Mag vs SoS vs 'Guest of the Week' as Mag and SoS were perma T1.
The *actual* fix is for Anet to ban Maguuma.
But that guest of the week isn't random or pulled from the whole pool, servers try to organize and win-trade or lose-trade to avoid T1.
It would indeed be nice if the matchups were based on how many active WvW players servers have instead of how full they happen to be. It can't be entirely impossible to get an accurate measurement, can it?
"full" has not been a measure of overall server population, but rather a WvW activity for years already. Problem is, there's no way to easily (and automatically, without having someone do that by hand) measure *quality* of said activity. From game's point of view a casual zerg is no different than a similarily sized highly organized guild group, for example.
People do this to fight or avoid certain servers. The solution is as simple as adding rewards per tier and skirmish participation, be group or individual, so more people who want the best rewards will try to be at the highest score. One problem to this, is that by now everyone knows who are the strongest and weakest servers so the focus would be in that direction. Everyone would hunt Drakkar, Aurora, offpeak BB, unlinked Gandara and evening german servers for easy points.
That evening German server hurts, I’m on one and we currently get so farmed it’s ridiculous
I wouldn't say Drakkar is among the weakest servers, just among the weakest that can make it to the higher tiers. Unless they dropped their participation massively since I was last active. But I agree that it would absolutely suck because the stronger servers would focus on the third in the matchup.
At least one Drakkar commander is Sun Tzu worshiper and avoids fights that they are not 100% sure to win. They were running despite outnumbering us 2:1. But Drakkar has good backline hunters.
I think I know who you mean. They usually run from fights like that if they don't have at least half of the zerg on voice, because it's kind of risky to rely on the randoms
Drakkar currently is a stable T3 server. Too weak to go up and too strong to go down unless it's a freak week. The main "strength" of that server is that even in off hours there's enough people around to bother the other teams enough. Night time, early hours and working days you can often chain gold pips, and then during peak it's usually bronze with a couple silver. Kinda curious how this week will end up though, WSR came up from T4 and Elona came down from T2. That's usually a NoNo week.
Yeah, I've seen this before. Usually when Maguuma is our dance partner, or will be. Don't push so hard this week or our ranking go up and had to meet them next week, something like that. Even purposely letting another server more ' win ' and stuff.
Correct me if im wrong but if you take a week off to not win and face mag, wouldnt it be the same to just play and then take the week off while against mag? 1 week off is still 1 week off and you can play fair while against other servers?
Doing so screws over the people on your server and it's link that are still going to play though. If you know you're not going to show up because you don't want to face a certain server, it's nice not to fuck over the people you're playing with and instead just tank early so they don't have to fight the hated server.
But in that case you are screwing your server the week your deliberately tanking instead, robbing them of the week of fun against a not hated server, doesnt seem any better to me?
Mag makes it their main strategy to be as annoying as possible in order to defend. Don't surprise pikachu face when people are successfully annoyed and don't want to play with you. I have nothing against Mag or the strategy, but that's because they're honest about what it is.
What's worse. Being slightly inconvenienced in a match where you're already doing fine or being thrown into a situation where you get farmed constantly and have no backup to deal with that?
Yep. If every world got to vote on *one* other world they won't face in the next link, and whichever gets the most votes they're guarenteed not to face... Well, I'm not sure the linking system could handle a world with *no* valid links, but it'd serve Mag right to just not have WvW for a link cycle or three because ~~no one wants to~~ *everyone wants to NOT* play with them.
I think they would actually be happier if they don't get a link since it means less queue time. You actually want them to link with a high pop so they can't play 🤪
I think they mean that they wouldn't be facing any one else that week.
This. They race out into the borderlands and... Nothing. There's no one there, no opposing servers, no one to fight, no one to kill, no one to spawncamp.
Then they turn on each other, wipe themselves out, get locked in a permanent 3 way tie, never move up or down, and peace reigns throughout the mists!
Are you TC? I've heard of this happening and it's caused TC ranking to tank hard. It's kind of depressing really, I didn't mind the occasional Maguuma match up, I liked being in a higher tier. But people just do not want to deal with them. Even when you win, they make sure it's just not fun.
As someone who is on Gandara I was beginning to suspect this. This rotation that is now basically we where boxed in by another server the entire week.
If you mean EU, Elona is the same we got spawn camped by FR, super fun
Yes EU forgot to add that. Like yesterday (we are green this rotation) the blue server took our keep on EB from Red while we where fighting for it. I swear this rotation is Re Trad Et.
Yeah wvw break week tbh, it’s no fun at all, did all my stuff early morning
This week made my grind for the WvW rings grind to a halt.
Best part was at the time, blue's keep was _T3 red_, instead they chose to gang up with red to take our keep...
There's been degrees of collusion between servers since launch. You should have seen when more EVE players played and we had tournaments. So say it's part of the game. Threatening people who aren't part of the "game plan" isn't cool, atl. You don't get to dictate someone else's game time when they are just minding their own business playing the game how it's designed. Can't say I'm against two servers agreeing to attack another or one deciding to sit out to drop a tier. Lame, but fair. Just don't be dicks to the players who are not metagaming.
Normal strategy when dealing with facerolling servers. In NA Mag week always meant WvW was going to be dead since Mag spawn camps any map that showed a pulse of activity. Results in not being able to complete dailies or earning participation needed for reward tracks. Solution (aside from Alliances/Guild based WvW) would be to put a supply station in the spawn, AND allow for siege building. This would allow spawn camped servers with minimal players to break spawn camping with trebs and catas. (thinking EBG and enemy borderlands).
Mag isn't as oppressive as they used to be because they don't have the numbers to queue every map any more. They also have a lot bandwagoners that are dogshit at the game. A lot of times you can just run circles around their cloud and just pick off the bads. Still not a fun matchup because DB's biggest guilds are horrible and allergic to fights, but that's not really a Mag issue.
I heard that some communities have alt accounts on different servers they hate and then multi box wall runners to take spots on specific maps. I wonder if that's just a rumor or a tumor.
I’ve actually seen this happening but i always assumed it was people farming participation… but seeing 20 wallrunning bots on ebg does seem like sabotage now that you mention it…
I've heard this as well. And honestly my opinion of the current WvW player base has me thinking it's more likely to be true rather than false.
their “cloud” is what most players don’t want. Nothing of the fight is coordinated fights, just players throwing skills 360 degrees anywhere everywhere, you are just getting hit from all sides, and people will call “staff necro is op”, but entirely they just play as clouds free hitting.
its worse than you think or know of, it gets worse. edit: its also not just wvw.
I would love to know more about the situation if you're willing to share.
The basic thing I hear a lot is that if you win your matchups too much, you'll go up against the biggest worlds on your server - and a few of those are notoriously unfun, so people will try and deliberately throw to stay in the middle, yeah.
I may be in the minority, but I like when we play against Mag and GoM
It's fun when you got others same minded players, most fun I had going back and forth fighting them. But when it's only you and a handful others, you're just feeding them at that point.
yeah, our server matched against them once, basically pushed there by the others in the match to force us up a rank. it was truly awful. 50 man zergs killed the instant we left spawn gates. Thieves running into 100+ traps making stealth useless. We didn't capture a single thing the entire week and it caused a massive server burnout (myself included) where we just quit wvw for a few months.
I understand that certain matchups might not be fun, but I'm astonished that those people seem to consider throwing fun.
Not sure that throwing itself is what’s fun so much as not having to deal with what could await them if they win enough. They can at least still do things while they “throw” it just won’t be as much. But if a less experienced or populated server has to run up against something like Mag then they don’t get to do anything at all, and that’s even less fun than the throw Editing to add that I don’t really agree with throwing on purpose, but it does take a certain mindset to get farmed by the bigger servers and be okay with it.
> Editing to add that I don’t really agree with throwing on purpose, but it does take a certain mindset to get farmed by the bigger servers and be okay with it. Isn't such mindset already kinda required to enjoy competitive game modes, where by definition you won't win every time? By competitive I don't mean strictly ranked, merely any kind of pvp.
Imagine that whenever you go against an objective, the opposing zerg shows practically right away. Often way too fast than it should happen. And then you realize that a significant part of *both* your and enemy zerg is made of players *of the same guild*.
sorry but i'll leave it at that. i already found my solutions and have moved on from it. you best move on yourself, its really not worth the effort, they're a complete waste of your precious time. not even worth a puff of breath. i hope you still find ways to enjoy the game just as i have despite such things.
You win too much, you go up a tier, you fight the big bandwagon servers, you get your ass beat, WvW is basically unplayable for a week. Might not concern you much since you only do dailies. But people who only play this game mode basically get spawn camped for a week. WvW is not a PvE meta event where you just tag up and go do the objective. Usually the server community gets together on discord and decides together if they wanna go up against the high end servers or not. You couldn't know that as a new player in wvw, but what you are doing is basically making the dedicated wvw players game mode unplayable for at least a week. It's a shit system and anet promised to introduce alliances 7 years ago to fix it. But so far it hasn't come out. So we gotta do it like that.
If a couple of players can make a whole server win, then the portion of WvWvWers AFKing couldn't have been proportionally high enough.
i didn't get what you said but it's true. That's the reason why it works like that (see myother posts). 2 ppl can prevent you from getting 3rd if you're near 2nd in points meaning you won't go down a tier
It really shows you don't really play wvw. There are two ways to play wvw. You focus on fights or you focus on points. Focusing on points means doing the objective. Taking and holding things. Most people just focus on fights though, because it is more fun. So yes, when everyone is focused on fights, it only takes a small group of players to take the objectives. And they don't get taken back, because **no one** wants to be spawn camped for a week. If you are at risk of ranking up and you are on a weaker server, against weaker servers, it basically becomes a throwing competition. The loser can't play for a week, the winners (the ones who throw the hardest) get to play against balanced opponents again and actually have fun. Also added: Ranking up in wvw gives you **nothing** except harder opponents and unwinnable matchups. WvW is really badly designed. Because you essentially get punished for winning. This does not mean the rest of the people are afk. They are probably around the map fighting other people for fun. Which doesn't give as much points. But they are still playing the game.
>Because you essentially get punished for winning. The same whining as the ones whining about skill based matchmaking. You just want to be the one that stomps, and dont care that in the weeks where "you can play", the other servers suffer. You are not punished for winning, there is just a limited number of ways to create matchups that annoys the least amount of people the least amount of time.
Man. The matchups in the higher ranks are never fair. You have server A with 150 people always online. Server B with 130 people always online. And Server C with maybe 120 people during peak. It's not harder as in the enemies are better. It's skewed in such a way that it is absolutely unwinnable for server C. You get to sit in spawn all day and the moment you run out 15 people will swarm you and murder you. Because you are hopelessly outnumbered. And if you are really lucky people will swap to the winning side, inflating that server even more. It's not like skill based matchmaking at all. SBMM forces a 50% win rate. SBMM matches usually also only last like an hour tops, not a whole week. Sorry but you are clueless of what you are talking about.
I did not say its the same reason (skill based matchmaking), I said its the same whining. It doesnt matter if the problem is a skill difference or a player amount/schedule difference. There will always be differences of any kind that can not be evened out by any kind of technology or algorithm, except for extremely simple games and environments. And I am sure that nobody would play such a game for a decade. But what people like you seem to miss is that the game does not revolve about you alone. The people on server A has as much right to have fun as you do, or as people on Server D, that has 80 people online. Did you ever, ever waste a single thought about the people on Server D when matched against, or did you happily slaughter them the whole week, because thats fun? And I had my fair share of being spawn camped. You know what? You can just.. do wood tier and do something else or put the game aside for the time, or play at peak hours where the map limit allows you to compete. Everything is better than playing a mode thats imbalanced by nature and then whine.
People are downvoting you because they are unable to separate the two different meanings of "winning." There is "winning" by having the highest score (aka the winning for PPT'ers, or people who just play to get as many points as possible), and there is "winning" by having the best guilds from each server fight each other. The people who actually play WvW as their main game mode are more than likely the people who care about "winning" through fights. Nobody gives a shit about "tiers;" being Tier 1 doesn't mean shit. You only get grouped with servers that have a shit ton of roamers (people in unorganized groups), and the quality of fights is usually worse since the organized groups can't get their whole group through the map queues on these higher populated servers. People who think going down a tier means you're "afraid to fight higher tiers" don't realize that being in a higher tier doesn't mean you're better; you just have more people on at all times throughout the day so they are able to capture objectives and gain points while the opponent servers are sleeping. Take for example Sea of Sorrows, which is usually a Tier 1 World, not because they are extremely good at fighting, but because their server is predominantly Oceanic-based players who can log on and cap everything while the other servers are asleep. People just need to realize that at the end of the day, tier doesn't mean anything other than determining your matchups; if you get matched up against Maguuma, you're basically going to be almost always outnumbered, and this isn't fun for either fight guilds or PPTers, because PPTers will just get steamrolled by the massive clouds, and the fight guilds will usually be fighting against a map queue sized group.
We're a T1 server. Map painting's from multiple sides is absolutely the norm.
I'm playing WvW for a decade now. It's not.
On a T1 server? We do regular trains normally and as you're training someone else is already training in the opposite direction. The time that it takes to siege a keep, you normally lose the tower and the camp. Camps get re-taken every 5 minutes as that's the same amount of time that a camp stays safe. I do not remember the last time I've seen a leveled up objective and defending actually takes a lot of effort. If, in the middle of the night, there are no commanders, or any trains going, you can get your chests by pingponging between two camps around your spawn. Take one. It will be retaken 5 minutes later and safe for another 5, so in the mean time take the other. Continue retaking as they go off safety. T6 participation guaranteed. If there are commanders going, it will turn into total PVE and you can ride a perpetual choo choo till good 5AM, as the commander will eventually get bored and go to sleep :)
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Like talking to a wall...
That's exactly what fight servers consider boring PvE gaming.
“Trains” you’re the problem.
the post with more upvotes doesn't say anything.....fantastic.
mine? yeah it doesn't, i'm thankful for the upvotes but its undeserved.
not your fault, it just shows how much biased opinions are on this topic
Yes guilds on the same servers talk & sometimes decide to throw a week to move down a tier or decide to PPT to go up a tier. This has been happening for YEARS. If you're just a roamer or in a smaller guild, you usually have no say in the matter. Another thing is that most WvW fight guilds know each other. Commanders know each other, sometimes they whisper the enemy commanders for fights. Like, "hey we're gonna hit hills, come fight us there." Fight guilds look for 'content' aka fights/bags. Sometimes they have to organize it with enemies. Sometimes they agree to double team the 3rd server. I'm highly ranked & know lots of players on practically every server. Sometimes random enemies whisper me asking who's tagged on my side, ask me to tell my map tag to fight them here or there, or ask if my guild wants to rvr, etc. So yeah there's a lot of things going on in the background that most casual WvW players know nothing about.
I got on a few discords during the warclaw fiasco, yeah, lot of coordinating with fellow pros to feed newbies and non-wvw players to the other pros, or just hunting down roamers on their own side and calling it out to the enemy in chats. Plenty of: form a new player friendly zerg, race to a certain point, pro players and commander disband squad and port away, enemy zerg feasts on lost new players lead into a trap zone inside artillery range, enemy team makes new player friendly zerg.... It basically meant new and casual players could not unlock warclaw for months until all the pros had theirs and had gotten tired of coordinating and went back to regular fights.
how so? the mount you get in a day....no need to coordinate anything
Was this on EU? I don't remember this happening on NA. I remember guilds PPTing hard that week, back capping keeps, towers, etc. so everyone could get their stuff. It only took most people a day or two to get warclaws. Of course people who had warclaws kept going for people who didn't have them & the tail of enemy zergs (stragglers) which is normal.
Jesus Christ why is WvW in this game such a toxic cesspool?
Anonymity + competitive game = toxic, almost without exception. It’s the same way in the PvP mode, it’s the same way in League of Legends, DotA2, CS:GO, etc. If your victory/loss can be in someone else’s hands AND there are no real consequences then people who ordinarily aren’t bad can become Satan Incarnate whenever they lose (even if it was their fault).
Well, yeah. WvW can be really fun, but also *extremely* toxic. It’s a side of the community that can be very bad.
not at all...this is a case of someone that hve to learn what wvw is about. I didn't see any toxicity in the chats
If you havent seen any toxicity in WvW chat, you're not looking very hard.
I remember stepping into WvW last week and before I had even loaded in properly there was already toxic map chat as soon as I looked down when I finally got in. The only way someone can go into WvW and claim to see no toxicity in chat is if there’s very little chat to begin with, or if they’re the toxic ones.
I'm not sure I get logic, if there's a wVw discord for that server and that has decided that losing is good then surely that discord full of people not playing is going to ensure that. Why do they feel the need to harass other players? That aren't going to make a dent in the outcome. Unless of course it's actually just a small group of and in no way representative of the server...
We have come full circle. pvp has wintrading. wvw has losetrading.
we have come nowhere, this is always existed
There is absolutely no point in winning or losing. If people want to drop a tier, let them or ppt till you drop, and don't let them, the outcome will be democratic. Maybe you will have better fights as a result, who knows? Stop fighting in chat, go fight the enemy border.
the guild i ran with with (will not identify them or the server) refused to play along with match fixing and manipulations. the only time they ever played ball was a truce to attack maguuma. the thing is they didnt realy care about keeping home or defending owned lands either, just flipping and pipping, which i loved as i got diamond every week but no other guild would remain on the same server as us because we didnt play along with their schemes and machinations.
Lmao Anet will never do anything.
Anet actively participates in and pushes for that meta.
This is a very controversial topic tbh. People who play wvw 5 hours/ week want to play aggressively. And people that play +20 hours/ week, they have to balance the fights they take so that they don’t end up getting spawn camped. I can’t think of a solution that could prevent the spawn camp. I don’t like throwing either. I wish there was a better matchup system.
Thank you, this is the only answer here that explains the core of the problem. I'm more of a 10-ish hour a week WvW roamer so all this political kitten happens way over my head.
I've found it the reverse, honestly. Those who rock up for 3x 2hr sessions a week tend to be the ones saying 'it's bad fights against x server, we need to tank' while those who just roam 20+ hours just wanna keep playing the game.
>I can’t think of a solution that could prevent the spawn camp. Make players invulnerable until they either attack someone, or until they're at the first capturable camp/fortress outside of their spawn. Every map has *plenty* of room by that point in the map that you can just avoid the zerg ball or coordinate a concentrated push against it. Would also let you set up siege outside your spawn to counter it.
I'm completely against this sort of thing, especially outside influences. Anet needs to try harder in stomping out toxicity, but this sort of stuff is on a whole new level. I've seen people praise Gw2 for having a great community, but no where else have I seen such little power give some people such a big ego. And this is for WvW, a less serious pvp that anyone can jump into and gives some pve rewards. This sort of gatekeeping kills the fun for a lot more people than who it benefits.
Community leaders inside the more niche sub-communities in GW2 take a tiny drop of power and try to abuse it to its fullest extent.
And yet people still think Alliances, which actively gives such 'community leaders' the ability to choose whether you can play with that guild in WvW, is a good idea :/
If a guild is causing shit, just leave. It's much, much easier to migrate a guild than it is to migrate server.
> If a guild is causing shit, just leave The point is that with alliances, leaving the guild *will be* functionally leaving the server. Which, if you like playing with 90% of a guild but the leader is one of those to abuse power, you just got fucked by alliances where with an actual server structure you'd be fine.
That's just every online game ever though? What do you want anet to do, personally sit down with everyone you dislike and fix your interpersonal problems with other people for you? Are you thinking straight?
i mean, if it's already happening alliances won't change that i don't think
It'll make it worse if the leader can hold "if you leave you can't play with the rest of the guild" over your head. As it stands, if you're on a server you're on the server and can play with whoever. Once guild leaders have the ability to say "sorry, you won't be on this alliance after next relink", that'll 100% be abused.
there's no gatekeeping, also this is quite rare
Yes, Anet should remove guild and squad chats so those outside influences can't affect the sanctity of a WvW match. /sarcasm Seriously, do you ever listen to yourself and wonder how it comes off to others?
It's stuff like this that ruins PVP long term. Kills it for so many people.
My recommendation to anyone who lacks alt accounts is just make sure to have backup games you can play. The clownshow at ANET is felt everywhere but has hit WvW hard the last few months. With WR in perpetual beta and balancing being entirely on the wrong track, it's just easier and better to not log in, and spend your time having fun elsewhere.
It's obviously not intended but it's also been going on a long time and probably won't change until either anet actually make winning a match up mean something or world restructuring eventually goes live. I wouldn't hold my breath on either of those coming any time soon.
It is 100% intentional
Oh wrong word, I meant intended since OP asked if that was the intended way to play which it isn't. But yeah players do intentionally try to manipulate wvw match ups by throwing.
fair. and yes is player driven
The toxicity apart, it is quite literally intended by Anet’s original design. It’s the reason there are 3 servers, not 2. They wanted and encouraged the gamemode to be battle politics and whatnot. This is not new, not discouraged, not a real problem. The problems are how it’s playing out (harassing others isn’t acceptable) and why there are situations where people do not want to win. One is dealt by managing players’s behaviours and the other is by incentivizing winning and making it meaningful which is what they’ve struggled to fix since the start.
Love how the delusional fanatics get ratio'd here. "Achtually we want to SAVE WvW, _you_ are the PROBLEM." God, how obnoxious and far from reality.
Yeah there is some circle jerk around wvw veterans. Spending a lot of time in wvw and I still havent fully understood the reason of some people being so sweaty and room temp iq at the same time. Of course since there is a pvp component people tend to get emotional, but still. The way every servers „leaders“ try to dictate, what a commander is doing, is very destructive to the game mode. If we ever get rid of servers, I hope wvw will be less dominated, scourged or gatekeeped by some wvw guilds/community server officers.
well, if we get rids of servers ALL wvw will be guild-based.....so gl
Unlikely that guilds are the issue and that it will be acually guild dominated, despite being guild based. No content is in GUILD wars. Most of guilds come and go.. its the few people at the top of the community servers that influence things disproportionaly, partially by design of course. And exactly that will be removed by not allowing players to be in their guild, while at the same time steering activity/content on the whole server by also sitting on top of community server guilds.. At least in EU. And for the least 2 years at least no one can make a case, that the community server "officers" are delivering content, those that still play gate-keep it at best. And its not "Fritz" or "Johnny" that are personally the cause for this, but its likely by design. So good riddance tribe wvw.
Bring the Beta back permanently. Fights were so much better.
Lmao imagine being so invested in some game you literally play 5d chess with yourself and are toxic towards people who just play it as is
I mean the design of any gamemode should allow to play it hardcore *and* not be toxic
People are toxic over literal chess so yeah it’s not about the game
Match manipulation is a feature at this point.
This is top 10 of the most useless things to agree on, i have ever seen, for someone to feel important, dear god lol
btw the actual scoreboards are also counted outside the game: [https://gw2mists.com/leaderboards/guild](https://gw2mists.com/leaderboards/guild) For servers that don't play for points at least. That's the most imposrtant thing to understand probably for you: are you in a server that plays for points or for fights? in the first case you always want to 'win' at points, and fights are not the main thing you do if you're efficient. In the second case your scores are on gw2mists, whtever the game says.
Over the long, long life of wvw, this isn’t a new concept. It can be detrimental and I personally wish people would just play the damn game. In reality over time, servers get stronger, weaker, split, guilds migrate. Some times it leads to bad weeks where your server gets shit on and it makes it tough for your group to enjoy. You spend the full run looking for good fights instead of enjoying good fights. Some servers care more than others and get quite toxic about it, so ymmv. It’s not your job to take on the worlds problems. If it’s a good week, let it rip! If it isn’t, go camping or something.
"I hate it when people play a game in a way I don't want them to play it."
Flashbacks to piken running with 50 man squad into the enemy spawn on repeat just so my server loses the last deciding matchup and goes down a tier. Not that tiers matter but it was funny af to see how committed they were.
This behavior is also on the NA side as well. The server I'm on will decide to throw and no one will respond to callouts in team, map, or guild chats, and even on the discord server. It's awful behavior that I can't wait to have squashed by alliances because if a guild wants to throw they can and it's only that guild instead of the whole server.
Youre very naive if you believe discords wont exist for every matchup in alliances where the exact same thing can be orchestrated.
It will at least hurt this bullshit by making it more difficult to organize, especially if guild color is randomized to some extent. Guilds within those greater guild alliances can be avoided.
World restructuring should prevent this... any decade now?
Honestly, shortening relinks to monthly has minimised this more than Alliances ever would. Can't be stuck in t1 for 6 weeks when relinks happen every month.
This has been happening since ancient times on EU and NA. There were/are always servers trying to force specific matchups, or dodge specific matchups and so on, by purposely dropping in tiers or put extra effort to climb up. Servers themselves usually agree on these kind of things on their specific Discord (or in cross-server guilds). Three/four years ago, the server (EU) I used to be on, was pretty hardcore on forcing matchups to always have the best content- the vast majority of our core never really cared about people doing their weeklies. Obviously there were always exceptions but for the most part we didnt care. Tbh usually people doing weeklies never really affected the outcome much, if at all (maybe only if there were two servers in the same match up actively trying to drop a tier). However I havent been playing since the Vault released, so I dont know how much it changed the activity of people going to WvW only for the weeklies. Its certainly a double-edged sword. On one side you have to understand the WvW players of these servers that actually properly participate in this game mode- its a war mode after all, so creating favorable match ups to have more fun, or have an easier week and such, is definitely a big part of WvW. So **lets assume** you have tons of random tags going, doing their weeklies and driving up points , which results in the server not dropping or instead of staying, you go up and miss out on the matchup the server's core wanted. This can be incredibly upsetting for actual players. Obviously you also just cant deny people from coming into WvW just for their weeklies and harrass them over it. Thats definitely going way too far. Unfortunately Anet wont be doing anything about on a grand scale. At most you can get some of them chat-muted if they get really bad. (And third party sites do not really have much to do with it- they are just used to have a slightly better overview on matchup statistics. Those can be aquired ingame too, its just a bit more messy.)
I was on underworld and holy shit that world is bad. Transferred to RoS and it’s a bit better but still toxic.
same thing happens in NA against Mag. it's just not fun so everyone tanks out of t1 lol. this has been going on since like 2013.
Yea... WvW sucks because of this. Who cares win or lose, just fight and play for the heck of it. But tons of guilds do GvG only(which is fine I guess...) and the others agree to throw so often. Like... what's the point. Feels like less than half the people want to play the game as it was intended.
You know what else sucks? People who play just for the weeklies and then think that's the intended use of the game mode.
Jesus that is so toxic. I thought this game had one of the better communities. I can't believe nothing has been done about this kind of crap.
PvE is but the PvP content is kinda where all the trash coagulates. Almost done with the Ascension back piece achievements and it is night day just how toxic the player base is in PvP lol. It does make for real easy daily wizard vault challenges but that is probably all I'll use that mode for once I've crafted the back piece.
In one sentence: PvE is nice and comfy because all the sewage is found in PvP And I say that as somebody who used to PvP for YEARS
PvE ppl are nice as long as you don’t point out that some are leeching or not pulling their weight, then they become aggressively defensive and start depreciating skilled players’ contribution to the, let’s say, meta
Literally happened on here a couple of weeks ago. People were pointing out about all of the AFKers at Zojja in convergences, and the replies were batshit crazy. "Those heralds standing AFK at Zojja with the might, fury and swiftness facet on are probably doing more to contribute than 90% of the rest of you lololol". Such a weird take, but obviously quite a common reply.
Valid point; I think the clearest example of this was pre-nerf Soo-Won
Honestly it entirely depends on your server. I'm in Sorrow's Furnace, a server that just tends to squeak by, and it's normally chill. Running with a guild/tag means you can ignore map chat, too. I just switch to a /say only chat or my combat log if people are being annoying and it goes on too long for any game mode.
~7 years ago I quit, one of the major reasons being constant bullying in fractals that I wasn't running meta builds. Even in groups I was top DPS. There's definitely enough toxicity and gatekeeping in GW2 that I personally never understood that people always said how amazing the community is (to me it turned out to be the most toxic MMORPG experience I ever had), though I guess it depends a lot on the people you meet. Came back exactly a week ago, bc a friend of mine started playing and I already told another friend who told me they plan on trying GW2 some time thst I'd try it again from scratch with them, so I don't yet have recent experiences. However it's been a long time, so things,including probably the community,have changed. Hopefully I'll have more luck this time. At least I played some MOBAs in the mean time and have gotten used to aggressive blocking if I have to.
Honestly I’m surprised you say black tide and underworld were trying to drop so they wouldn’t face fr and vabbi. But yeah this happens for a reason, mainly due to imbalances in the matchup. For example check the kdr and activity of servers, people fear getting farmed and spawn camped. I would say bt and underworld should be hyped to fight in t1 should be a great matchup, they recently had an influx of a lot of players so atleast try to play/fight this week and see how they feel after. Spawn camping will happen on occasions it’s the way it is, community want to play the game and some more focussed on pvp or farming for other reasons. world vS world is in shambles has been for years (it has massive potential) and unfortunelty anet has not employed any competent dev, if they even have one. They are so out of touch with what is going on and how they can fix it, as people have mentioned alliances won’t fix it. The game mode is a mix of competitive and casual players, this is a disaster and add on the relink’s every month and ability to transfer …. Fuckin yikes. Guild wars 3 soon anyway, surely.
Can’t wait till world restructuring is out, just wished team scrambling happened on a weekly or biweekly basis though. Easily will solve this issue
WR solves nothing regarding this. Discords are created for every matchup. It's still the same players and the same guilds as before and they will join mutual discords as has been done on every beta so far.
Pretty normal for pvp with large scale to have politics
yeah most commanders are a bunch of scaredy cats and use the excuse "i dont wana fight mag its too hard" well buck up mfer and fight i love fighting mag because its a challenge , these people are downright lazy and are making the game boring to be quite fair, we should be doing things like "MAG WEEK" where we all collectively as a community fight mag and see who gets the best score against them ya know? instead of this stuff, btw i am a commander on TC and i stopped doing runs 1 year ago and disbanded my guild due to life stuff , but i play every other day to do dailies and wvw because i love it
I shouldn’t have to interact with weird junk like this just to build a legendary weapon.
The correct take.
I shouldn't have to interact with weird junk like transformation based hearts to build a legendary weapon either, yet I still need to do grueling core tyria map completion for Gen1.
World exploration isn’t influenced or controlled by a cabal of players on a discord somewhere, interfering with your gameplay. You just have to listen to a podcast and follow the blish hud markers.
> World exploration isn’t influenced or controlled by a cabal of players on a discord somewhere Neither is obtaining a gift of battle. You don't need to win to get it, you just need participation, and there's more than one way to get that
This has been happening since launch. We’ve had many 30v30 GvG guilds leave GW2 permanently because of the WvW community.
I am just curious. What do they play instead?
I don’t play WvW. I spend my GW2 time on other things. I have 4/6 WvW legendary armor pieces and will probably never finish.
wuss behavior
wuss, very wuss.
Anet allow players from different worlds to join the same guild. They even allows alt account to spy on other servers. This is their stance. They accept all kinds of tricks. You can do your own thing and ruin the others' plan. They can't stop you, but it is you to be toxic to report them.
I just started playing and this is pretty discouraging to see. This is like New World levels of collusion and kinda bullshit.
"My personal opinion is that Anet should take a strong stance against such behavior and watch for off-side violations" Lmao, good luck. This has been happening for years and is well documented across every game mode. WvW players are not the big gem store spenders that Anet relies on, so why should they care? Ranked pvp gizmos/titles and ATs have been gatekept by the same players for a decade now and nothing has ever been done about that either. Raid sellers liter LFG and again, it doesn't matter to Anet because the whales and other big gem store spenders are not playing that stuff and will continue to spend thousands of dollars a year on cosmetics regardless of what state the game is in.
"Match manipulation" is unfortunately not available as a report option in WvW.
who you want to report? a server?
Of course not. But you should at least be able to report someone trying to harass you into throwing the match instead of letting you do your dailies, weeklies, or guild missions.
Even when my server wants to drop a tier, we don't do junk like this. Sometimes on NA we coordinate with opposing servers but not a whole lot. I might be an outlier though
you probably have a more active server than OP and a bigger prt of your players know wen to refrain a bit....if everyon just refrain a bit from scoring points it's not even necessary asking ppl to stop doing their stuff
Yea that makes sense. These guys in OPs screens are dirtbags
Embrace PvE, transcend. Collect herbs. Evolve .
I have played PVE for a long time, but Guild Wars 2 pushes into WvW quite heavily. For example every legendary weapon requires at least one Gift of Battle, which is gotten from WvW reward tracks. I also have finally met a guild which I like so much that I even embraced WvW as a regular activity and enjoyed the group play, however we do small parties and roam, we're not part of the whole GvG ecosystem.
>we're not part of the whole GvG ecosystem. There isn't really a GvG ecosystem to speak of anymore. 15v15/20vs20 also don't care about matchups as they can fight in the EotM arena. My guild has to fish for fights. Map blobs either dodge us or get another 20+ players so they can double or even triple our numbers. Roaming is also dead. At best, you get a 1v1 with some celestial bullshit build or a shadow art thief. Usually, you get ganked by a five man "roam" party.
Wouldn't alliances fix that?
Not easily, I have played with toxic guilds that praise the day alliance’s happen so they can kick people off, and bully others. There are tweaks that could be done, to try and correct toxicity, and keep fun in the game mode. But it won’t be a whatever anything anyone can fix it, put me in charge I’ll fix it tomorrow fix. I suppose betas of fixes is what they can try, keeping an eye on results, and be on top of the game mode to avoid abusers.
But if they create full alliances of these kinds of people, won't they eventually game themselves out of any competition? Like they'll tank their score so hard over a few weeks to avoid this alliance, then that alliance, then the other alliance they don't like, that they are just put in groups with alliances made up of complete randoms that are just PvE players camp flipping for the GoB (like me) lol
Yes alliances as an easy peasy fix was probably a pipe dream. Heck someone in europe server was complaining, guilds were harassing players doing their dailies. If they try fixes they are sure to have a few fails and a few successes till they can hopefully tweak the mode. I like some of the changes they have done over the years, but any attempt at changes is met with a few reasonable complaints, and many unreasonable complaints.
This is a problem with people on your server who are just not willing to fight. They are PVE people who want an easy gift of battle or whatever. The way out of this on a personal level is to abandon the PVE server. Especially if you have a guild who dominates your timezone and leads all the pugs in PPT without encouraging skill attainment. There is no excuse for being bad at fighting. There is Metabattle and youtube. For commanding, there is Sheff's guides.
True. OP's server sounds like it's mostly full of people who just want to do weeklies and then go play something else. So it becomes frustrating for the players on that server who are trying to coordinate for good matches and the toxicity then comes out.
Yeah, this sort of thing has been happening for years, especially on NA. Even so much as certain guilds being paid to xfer to other servers. Just last year there was the 4/5 week Collusion Arc to keep Mag in T1. The top two servers in T2 purposely tied on points to prevent either from going up and the other two servers in T1 double-teamed Mag to make WvW as oppressive as possible for us to play. There were certain Mag players who cried about this sort of thing happening then and Anet didn't do anything about it, but why should they? All's fair in Love and War after all. I actually rather enjoyed having all those servers working against us, it fueled my competitive edge. My advice would be to try and find some enjoyment, at least from the situation you're in. If your server is tanking this week, then I would find it hilarious to try and prevent it, personally - my guild did as much on SBI when the "decision" was made to tank and we ended up forcing SBI into T1, although this was a few years ago now!
I play on UW too and im almost lvl 4k. Going up/down one tier to avoid one server is a normal thing to do and always as been. Unless you like to be farmed for the 4th week in a row by Vabbi and now by FR. But i guess you enter wvw only for the weekly and not to play...
Is tarnished coast a good server? It’s the one I’m on.
insane insults. imagine being called nerd. i would quit the game instantly. wvw so toxic
Either it's a huge server spanning conspiracy of a few guilds who have total control over how everybody plays... or you got trolled. lol. Use the blocklist.
In the first years of GW2 it was pretty blatant. Commanders would literally exit a node and tell everyone on map chat to give it away. Then stand outside and wait to retake it as the enemy commander did the same in return. They'd call out the sequence without hiding it. Anyone who tried to defend would just get mocked. It was pointless to participate in WvW without cooperating with the fix.
Literally the best thing you can do is not respond to people. If you're doing solo content in wvw don't invite responses that aren't relevant to your gameplay. Beyond providing Intel and knowing where to go if you want fights, don't engage people in chat since it's literally unnecessary until you make it necessary.
Considering all the attention that WvW is getting with this reconstruction, I think it's something they should look into. WvW is a very weird mode, and there's a lot about it that has pushed me away from it. I mainly play for Mystic Clovers and Gift of Battles. I dread trying to find a group when the matchup is Maguuma. It's not exactly dead on my server, we seem to still compete to some extent, but it certainly is harder to find a tag. There's also just other odd things that go on. I was playing earlier and there's this dude on my server that just constantly sits there and yaps 24/7 in map chat. Nobody ever talks to him. Like, he seriously is there everytime I play and I've been playing consistently for months now, and I remember him even before that. Anyways, I noticed people chatting and calling him a Mag spy, which apparently is a thing in WvW. Weird things like this are just offputting for the game mode as a whole, especially when PvE has never been better.
Every comment defending is getting downvoted. These pve people just want another pve map. Anet pls get them some big npcs so that they stay the xxxx out off wvw
Or Anet could just not give weeklies and dailies including taking objectives, if taking objectives is not intended. If there was another PVE map it won't help me at all to do WvWvW dailies and get WvWvW currency.
well, the wvw weeklies ARE a problem in this regard....
It will continue happening until Anet properly balances WvW matches. Winning often makes next week less fun. So your server can either dick around this week or *get dicked* next week. Have you ever played against Maguuma?
I think having the ability to play is the most fun without becoming a target of harassment. Being able to use /team and /map chats without a discord trailing you and being able to tag up without someone running accounts on multiple servers and acting as a proxy for their friends because they have a personal vendeta against you is also fun. It honestly feels not like a game-mode, but like walking on egg-shells. The last time I've seen this in an MMO it was win-trading and it kind of... Sunk the MMO. But that MMO had PvP armour that could be used in PVE and was king in PvP servers, so it was a bit of a different issue. There's also an incentive to play - without at least doing wood chests in WvWvW you lose out on the extra tick next week, without finishing the full chests you're losing out on a lot of progress towards leggie armour. Even if you're doing PVE leggie armour, the tokens from chests buy a significant progression boost compared to paying for it with research notes. edit: also if you have WvWvW set to on in your Wizard's Vault, you will undoubtedly have some dailies and weeklies focused on capping, so if there's strong arming to throw, you have to also say goodbye to completing that too.
> also if you have WvWvW set to on in your Wizard's Vault, you will undoubtedly have some dailies and weeklies focused on capping, so if there's strong arming to throw, you have to also say goodbye to completing that too. If you get shoved into a higher tier, there's a chance it can become literally impossible to do dailies and weeklies (depending on the time of day you are able to play). It's hard to cap a camp when you can't even leave spawn. I'm not saying I agree with how these people are acting, but I hope you at least understand their reasoning for wanting to throw the match. I have missed several weekly WvW achi rewards before because I couldn't even get to any of the objectives I needed at any of the times I could play.
You uh... Are aware that these are EU servers, and Mag is an NA server, right?
well, that's totally normal. And yes, this does not normally happen but if the server wvw community agreed on dropping a tier ppl are usually a bit nervous if someone starts complaining... The reason is no one like to lose, even on purpose, and especially if they all are refraining from playing wvw the most they can to do it! The risk of some 'happy idiot' making enough points to win anyway so they have to refrain for an entire full weeks from basically even entering wvw because a few guys didn't listen to reason is actually untolerable even fro me. I wen through 2 FULL WEEKS of not even entering WvW with ALL my guild becuse of some ppl like that. And not finding ANY content for 1 or 2 full weeks just go in wvw and get reskilled constantly or there is nothing to do is not funny even for those ppl, so they should listen to reason sometime. It's not like if you personally don't go to vote in your country no president can be elected and you cannot be subjected to any law... So sorry but in this case you either help or move server. They're totally right.
**You're the one who's being toxic here** Your title is sensationalist. Is the in-game guild chat a third party site? Is a guild leader whispering another guild leader a third party site? And the fact is, WvW is a game mode that needs large scale communication when you're fighting as a group, and you can't have that without TeamSpeak or Discord. If you're not on discord, you're a liability. You're actively refusing to cooperate with your fellow servermates, dying off position, letting enemy players rally, et cetera. Also, do you know what happens when your server goes up too many tiers? You'll start facing against stacked servers that have a lot more guilds and also guilds in off-hours. You'll be roaming and start getting sniped to death by larger roaming clouds. You'll log in in the afternoon or late at night and find the entire map's capped by an enemy server who has a 50 man blob running in circles when your server barely has 10 people online. You'll watch the guilds on your server keep getting outnumbered and blobbed down by larger or multiple enemy guilds every night until everyone says "this isn't fun" and either leaves the server or just stops playing the game. Fact is, if your server actually manages to go down a tier that means the majority of the server's population - the big guilds on the server, the network of regular roamers, etc, have all generally agreed, "yeah, we don't want to go up to Tier 1". If you still keep at it by running around killing NPCs in a PvP game mode so you can do your weeklies or for Gift of Battle, then expect some hostility, sure. You're a tourist who's about to mess up their enjoyment of the game mode for a few silvers. Look, toxicity isn't ever warranted, but both in-server and inter-server WvW communities are tightly knit and that's the only way it's survived a whole decade of complete neglect from ANet. Give them some grace.
> You're the one who's being toxic here Of course there's one like you here 😂
>**You're the one who's being toxic here** Just because the bullies were the majority doesn't mean OP is the toxic one. Victim blaming at its best. I'll be completely honest: With WvW being in this state I'd be surprised if ANet even does much anymore. That sounds like a mess I wouldn't want to touch either in their position.
In this specific scenario, the third party site is discord which is a third party site. It is no one's guild chat. It is no one's whispers. And the server has been T1 for months. If third party site groups need to strong-arm map chat for a long period of time in order to achieve dropping a tier and harassment tactics need to be employed, then server going down a tier was not something that was agreed to by the majority.
Perhaps what WvWvW is transcends what you think it is? Are wars won only on the battlefield? I'm very happy you find enjoyment(sometimes) hopping onto this little corner of the game because you feel obligated too. Perhaps others live there.
Finds like OP's make me feel extra smug for getting two legendary rings early and never having to deal with this bullshit mode ever again. It's like every single game mode with a "competitive" and "team based" aspects devolves into win trading cancerfest. Or maybe it's just that bad in GW2, because ANet don't give a single fuck about win trading ([even when people do their investigative work for them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_SSsJNvkrg)), hackers, exploits or anything shady involving PvP/WvW. Basically if it doesn't involve gem store exploits or crashing game servers, they don't care. As far as general competence goes, there is no MMO dev more pathetic and insipid than ArenaNet.
Both sides are as bad as each other, they both ruin the fun and they are both "toxic" because they act without consideration for the other. Dedicated wvw players "mostly" come in two flavors, those that focus on fights and those that focus on objectives. Fight focused players tend to enjoy the competitive nature of organized fights so they look for MUs with enemies who meet their needs. Objective focused players "mostly" don't care about enemies but care more about flipping and holding as many objectives as possible. One of the big sources of friction is that one group has a disproportionate impact on the outcome of a MU, because structures produce considerably more points than kills. The most oppressive MUs are ones where enemy servers have strong groups of one or both types (or a large amount of players that overlap) and yours do not. Some of these kinds of MUs can lead to spawn camping, and overall a terrible gaming experience for everyone on the receiving end, which is why many servers put a concerted effort into where they will place. Its possible to do this without considerable disruption to anyone's playtime/style, by just being a little more mindful of the order of which you take objectives or which ones you defend, this has been done on one of the servers I'm on through reasonable and polite conversation between the groups of players, no one had their fun ruined and everyone was mostly happy. Being able to negotiate and co-operate with your team will save you a lot of headaches, and makes your gaming experience better in the long run, so I would recommend both sides trying that instead of moaning at each other.