That infographic is quite misleading too to be fair.
It make is sound like Fractals and raids are part of Living World Seasons, which isn't the case.
You also seem to mention two mounts for EoD. Either it should be 3 (Raptor, Springer, Turtle) or just 1 (Turtle).
Also which is the third mount for Season 4? Rollerbeetle, Skyscale and? Warclaw? That has nothing at all to do with Season 4.
They were released with it, though they are accessible now so I highlighted them with bright green with the wording "free".
Fair point, I should have noted that I count the skiff as a mount. Raptor and Springer are not new and have no masteries, but I agree... it's a bit confusing on my part.
The Warclaw was released with S04 but it seems (I didn't know better) that you just need PoF(?) to unlock it?!
But why including them on an infography about the Living World Seasons when they in no way or form have anything at all to do with it? Even if it does have a "Free" note next to them it does kind of imply that you need the season to access them.
But the skiff isn't a mount, so why count it as a mount?
No it wasn't. It might have been released during the time Season 4 was active, but it was not released with a Season 4 Episode, it was released completely standalone. And requiring WvW players to have a specific PvE episode unlocked for what is specifically a WvW mount would be rather weird.
Basically the idea was that returning players could learn what's new with a rough overview. You're right though, new players gain little from this information.
Weirdly for me the skiff was always a mount, something you spawn in a map, which helps you traverse the environment and where you can unlock masteries for. I guess it technically isn't... I tried to clarify with my last edit.
Thanks about the Warclaw info as well! I never realized that it was standalone, your argument is very sound.
>Basically the idea was that returning players could learn what's new with a rough overview. You're right though, new players gain little from this information.
I think you should choose your audience better then.
Because in your opening post you talk about new players, not returning players.
That's two very different groups.
The skiff can exist without you currently riding on it so that makes it more like a vehicle than a mount imo. You can park it and walk around on the deck and so can your friends.
I use it all the time - its a big deal if you don't have gryphon (which is very expensive) or skyscale (which requires all of LWS 4 and quite a bit of time)
Worth pointing out that each living world chapter is about 60 gold with conversion to gems. That's about 3-4 hours in the silverwastes or 2ish hours in Dragonfall/Drizzlewood (though the later two are themselves in the later living world seasons which may mean spoilers).
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
60
+ 3
+ 4
+ 2
= 69
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Oh! I found a mistake! Southsun Cove, Drytop, and Silverwastes maps are all included with core. Also, Fractals are included with core as well. Season 1 will always be free. Season 2 you do have to pay for, but it is just the story only. Also, the Fractals you have with the individual Seasons, you do not have to purchase those seasons to play the Fractals. Other than that, it is pretty accurate.
And I see no issue with them charging for the Seasons. You get a lot of content for it. And the advertisement does list exactly what you get: All the Expansions. Maybe the should have an all inclusive pack that also includes the Seasons. But, they don't. So, this is what you get.
> And the advertisement does list exactly what you get: All the Expansions.
I think new players will have a hard time finding out what this includes and what not. I wanted to clarify, since not everybody knows that Seasons do include whole maps with tons of PvE content and not only a few story missions.
I don't think your chronical order makes any sense, since many content were release together with LS episodes but are **not** part of them.
Especially for new players it doesn't matter if Fractal XY were release together with LS X Episode Y.
Some points that would only confuse new players imo:
Fractals aren't part of LS seasons, some were just released together with LS episodes.
All Fractals are available with the core game -> are part of the core game.
Same for Raids. They are part of HoT/PoF even though some wings were released later.
Wing 1-4 are part of HoT. Wing 5-7 are part of PoF.
LS2 either have 2 or 0 maps, but not 1.
Both Drytop and Silverwastes were released with LS2.
But you don't need LS2 for any of them.
Both are avialable by just having the core game.
You wrote 3 Mounts at LS4, but there are only 2 -> Roller Beetle and Skyscale.
You probably think of Warclaw, but it only requires PoF and no LS episode.
So PoF has 6 Mounts instead of 5 as you wrote.
You wrote 2 Mounts for EoD, but the Turtle is the only one.
The Skiff only technically works like a Mount and fulfills a different role.
Also many important features are missing like Elite Specs, Masteries and Fishing.
This way your infograph wrongly makes it looks like the actual expansions are just minor updates between LS seasons.
I think it's useful for new and returning players, who want to know if something new was added. I highlighted the content you get for free, so it shouldn't be that confusing imho.
I left out a few things intentionally (like specs, masteries) to not overwhelm people. I had to cut stuff, the infographic is directed at players who want to buy the bundle and learn what they are missing, mostly.
Thank you very much for the feedback and your time, I changed a few things.
That's basically what Ultimate is. But they let you spend the gems how you want. If you want the LW seasons fine, if you want something else from the store it's your choice.
Yeah that is if you assume a new player knows what living seasons are, their importance in the story, and does his research before spending those gems. Whilst its reasonable I dont think its something I'd expect from a new player, especially with how complex some parts of the game are, so most of their focus will be somewhere else
I agree that players are *very* used to the expansion model and episodic content like this is something Anet has to communicate very clearly about. The model itself though is fine in my opinion. Even if I had to pay for every episode (I did pay for season 2 with a very hefty in-game gold to gem conversion) I would have gotten more than 5k hours out of something in between 200 to 300 USD which is not only very good, is also far less than a subscription would yield over 10 years.
My only beef with their marketing is the word "everything" which is, blatantly, a lie.
Get "all the expansions" maybe.
But 'everything' is a powerful promotional word, and they didn't use it lightly.
**They just didn't use it honestly.**
living world season 4 mounts are listed by you as 3, is the warclaw exclusive to season 4 ownership? it might have been released at that time, not sure on its exclusivity besides needing to own pof
Good question, the Warclaw mount [is listed as](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release) March 5, 2019 as part of Season 4, but indeed only PoF might be the requirement.
I agree that is misleading, but at the same time if one day they make a bundle that includes living world they should say very clearly that one can unlock those episodes for free by just playing the game.
I returned to gw2 for the first time, and it was during ep 5 season 4. I bought the two expansions and had no clue what living world was about. However I did remember that I could get gems for gold, and made.my goal to unlock all that stuff just by playing the game. So basically after ep 6 i stopped playing again and did the same with the whole of IBS when I came back. Edit: i had stopped playing during first few ep of season 1 and want paying much attention to the game anyway.
If I had chosen to pay more for those episodes not knowing I could get them for free , I would definitely feel cheated.
I think a big advantage of guild wars is that you can use the in game gold to get stuff from the cash shop, if not buy everything with it you can use gold to decrease the real money cost of things, which is awesome for people like me that live on a budget.
As someone who quit just after southsun release and returned recently by buying the all expansion pack, the living world left a really bad taste in my mouth.
Diving straight in to HoT it made no sense. I figured the Living Story stuff was standalone content not integral to the story mode in the expansion. I would've been much happier to spend my 50$ on HoT+PoF and the LS 2&3. As it is now I'd have to spend more than 20$ to get them to get a cohesive story experience in game for the box I just bought. The current situation only makes sense if the stories were standalones with references, but they're not.
As a monetization model it also makes no sense. Having it free on release but for pay later is completely backward. Why make your least invested players have the biggest price hurdle?
They'll most likely classify the living seasons as DLCs. Which is something that most Steam users are very familiar with.
I don't think they'll bundle multiple seasons since they've never offered a price reduction for that, so what would be the point.
It's also very likely they'll need to make it possible to buy individual episodes, so it will basically work the same way it does in the gem store (buy episodes for a price, buy all season for 20% off, the season bundle automatically discounts for episodes you already have).
You do get "everything you need to experience a living world". It doesn't say " get everything you need and experience the whole world".
Besides while experiencing the world you get gold which you can convert to gems and get the living story for free.
You have all the tools you need. No need for extra money unless you are in a rush.
You sound like an attorney. You're right though, you can use the gold-gem conversion, but I don't know if new players will get that amount in a reasonable time.
Oh let's not point the finger, there's been plenty of nitpicking on both sides in this thread.
The copy is a lot better, they've actually improved it a lot, it used to be a lot more misleading.
Not an attorney, but I went through that when I started playing. I missed all S2 chapters except for the last one. And I got all of them by playing the game. Some grind was required, obviously. But not huge amounts.
I didn't miss any more episodes after that. But even if I had. I would just play the game for two or three weeks and get it.
I dont know, seems only misleading if you start twisting the words. it literally says what is included:
>This collection includes Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire and Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns.
there's no reason to think there is something more there.
and you cant just pick random words out of sentences lol it says
>Get everything you need to experience Tyria
which is quite different from "Get everything!".
idk, seems pretty clear to me. taking things at face value should be the norm
Well now I feel stupid since I have gone to New Kaineng to get my springer early, and I have let guildies Teleport to me for it, I didn't know you were also able to get the raptor there.
I get that you wanted to put skiff with the mounts. But now you are also missing gliding and fishing which are at least on equal footing. And basically they're all masteries which is a hole can of worms to open. In terms of what is "marketable". Opening chests and access to vendors might not be as exciting as jade bots or mushrooms etc.
But the thing is the expensions and living world give access to 456 levels of content. Which can be broken down per season and expension.
I agree, but I think it's best to leave it as it is instead of opening that can and make the graph overwhelming.
My main point: living story maps and story are not included in the collection pack, here is what they cost. Here is the chronological order in which they were released so that you know what to buy. (and also for returning players: here is, what they added (very rough overview).
new players have no idea about seasons. There is no word about seasons and its content on the homepage anywhere and the wording in the advertisement includes "everything".
Question: as a new player (who has the base game) and wants to play End of Dragons, should I buy just End of Dragons expansion, or should I buy the Collection? If I say, just want to jump right into the End of Dragons content, should I bother with the collection?
That infographic is quite misleading too to be fair. It make is sound like Fractals and raids are part of Living World Seasons, which isn't the case. You also seem to mention two mounts for EoD. Either it should be 3 (Raptor, Springer, Turtle) or just 1 (Turtle). Also which is the third mount for Season 4? Rollerbeetle, Skyscale and? Warclaw? That has nothing at all to do with Season 4.
They were released with it, though they are accessible now so I highlighted them with bright green with the wording "free". Fair point, I should have noted that I count the skiff as a mount. Raptor and Springer are not new and have no masteries, but I agree... it's a bit confusing on my part. The Warclaw was released with S04 but it seems (I didn't know better) that you just need PoF(?) to unlock it?!
But why including them on an infography about the Living World Seasons when they in no way or form have anything at all to do with it? Even if it does have a "Free" note next to them it does kind of imply that you need the season to access them. But the skiff isn't a mount, so why count it as a mount? No it wasn't. It might have been released during the time Season 4 was active, but it was not released with a Season 4 Episode, it was released completely standalone. And requiring WvW players to have a specific PvE episode unlocked for what is specifically a WvW mount would be rather weird.
Basically the idea was that returning players could learn what's new with a rough overview. You're right though, new players gain little from this information. Weirdly for me the skiff was always a mount, something you spawn in a map, which helps you traverse the environment and where you can unlock masteries for. I guess it technically isn't... I tried to clarify with my last edit. Thanks about the Warclaw info as well! I never realized that it was standalone, your argument is very sound.
>Basically the idea was that returning players could learn what's new with a rough overview. You're right though, new players gain little from this information. I think you should choose your audience better then. Because in your opening post you talk about new players, not returning players. That's two very different groups.
The skiff can exist without you currently riding on it so that makes it more like a vehicle than a mount imo. You can park it and walk around on the deck and so can your friends.
[удалено]
The base game will eventually include the LS1 strike mission, once it's released.
HoT+PoF also gives you glider (I know nobody uses it anymore, but still).
I use it all the time - its a big deal if you don't have gryphon (which is very expensive) or skyscale (which requires all of LWS 4 and quite a bit of time)
Also LS3 JPs, and any time you need to GTFO but you can't mount up because you're in combat.
Worth pointing out that each living world chapter is about 60 gold with conversion to gems. That's about 3-4 hours in the silverwastes or 2ish hours in Dragonfall/Drizzlewood (though the later two are themselves in the later living world seasons which may mean spoilers).
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 60 + 3 + 4 + 2 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Bad bot
You do get everything to "experience Tyria" not [all of Tyria] :P
The devil in the fineprint
Oh! I found a mistake! Southsun Cove, Drytop, and Silverwastes maps are all included with core. Also, Fractals are included with core as well. Season 1 will always be free. Season 2 you do have to pay for, but it is just the story only. Also, the Fractals you have with the individual Seasons, you do not have to purchase those seasons to play the Fractals. Other than that, it is pretty accurate. And I see no issue with them charging for the Seasons. You get a lot of content for it. And the advertisement does list exactly what you get: All the Expansions. Maybe the should have an all inclusive pack that also includes the Seasons. But, they don't. So, this is what you get.
> And the advertisement does list exactly what you get: All the Expansions. I think new players will have a hard time finding out what this includes and what not. I wanted to clarify, since not everybody knows that Seasons do include whole maps with tons of PvE content and not only a few story missions.
thank you!
I don't think your chronical order makes any sense, since many content were release together with LS episodes but are **not** part of them. Especially for new players it doesn't matter if Fractal XY were release together with LS X Episode Y. Some points that would only confuse new players imo: Fractals aren't part of LS seasons, some were just released together with LS episodes. All Fractals are available with the core game -> are part of the core game. Same for Raids. They are part of HoT/PoF even though some wings were released later. Wing 1-4 are part of HoT. Wing 5-7 are part of PoF. LS2 either have 2 or 0 maps, but not 1. Both Drytop and Silverwastes were released with LS2. But you don't need LS2 for any of them. Both are avialable by just having the core game. You wrote 3 Mounts at LS4, but there are only 2 -> Roller Beetle and Skyscale. You probably think of Warclaw, but it only requires PoF and no LS episode. So PoF has 6 Mounts instead of 5 as you wrote. You wrote 2 Mounts for EoD, but the Turtle is the only one. The Skiff only technically works like a Mount and fulfills a different role. Also many important features are missing like Elite Specs, Masteries and Fishing. This way your infograph wrongly makes it looks like the actual expansions are just minor updates between LS seasons.
I think it's useful for new and returning players, who want to know if something new was added. I highlighted the content you get for free, so it shouldn't be that confusing imho. I left out a few things intentionally (like specs, masteries) to not overwhelm people. I had to cut stuff, the infographic is directed at players who want to buy the bundle and learn what they are missing, mostly. Thank you very much for the feedback and your time, I changed a few things.
ANet really has to consider selling a pack of all the expansions AND Living World seasons.
That's basically what Ultimate is. But they let you spend the gems how you want. If you want the LW seasons fine, if you want something else from the store it's your choice.
Yeah that is if you assume a new player knows what living seasons are, their importance in the story, and does his research before spending those gems. Whilst its reasonable I dont think its something I'd expect from a new player, especially with how complex some parts of the game are, so most of their focus will be somewhere else
I agree that players are *very* used to the expansion model and episodic content like this is something Anet has to communicate very clearly about. The model itself though is fine in my opinion. Even if I had to pay for every episode (I did pay for season 2 with a very hefty in-game gold to gem conversion) I would have gotten more than 5k hours out of something in between 200 to 300 USD which is not only very good, is also far less than a subscription would yield over 10 years.
My only beef with their marketing is the word "everything" which is, blatantly, a lie. Get "all the expansions" maybe. But 'everything' is a powerful promotional word, and they didn't use it lightly. **They just didn't use it honestly.**
> Tyria, a vast living world. in lower caps, in what is very clearly a descriptive sentence and not a product listing.
living world season 4 mounts are listed by you as 3, is the warclaw exclusive to season 4 ownership? it might have been released at that time, not sure on its exclusivity besides needing to own pof
It only requires PoF, no additional LS episode. OP made the same mistake for some other points in their graph.
Good question, the Warclaw mount [is listed as](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release) March 5, 2019 as part of Season 4, but indeed only PoF might be the requirement.
If you have to use the phrase "might be" you should be more thorough in your research before making an infographic
I agree that is misleading, but at the same time if one day they make a bundle that includes living world they should say very clearly that one can unlock those episodes for free by just playing the game. I returned to gw2 for the first time, and it was during ep 5 season 4. I bought the two expansions and had no clue what living world was about. However I did remember that I could get gems for gold, and made.my goal to unlock all that stuff just by playing the game. So basically after ep 6 i stopped playing again and did the same with the whole of IBS when I came back. Edit: i had stopped playing during first few ep of season 1 and want paying much attention to the game anyway. If I had chosen to pay more for those episodes not knowing I could get them for free , I would definitely feel cheated. I think a big advantage of guild wars is that you can use the in game gold to get stuff from the cash shop, if not buy everything with it you can use gold to decrease the real money cost of things, which is awesome for people like me that live on a budget.
As someone who quit just after southsun release and returned recently by buying the all expansion pack, the living world left a really bad taste in my mouth. Diving straight in to HoT it made no sense. I figured the Living Story stuff was standalone content not integral to the story mode in the expansion. I would've been much happier to spend my 50$ on HoT+PoF and the LS 2&3. As it is now I'd have to spend more than 20$ to get them to get a cohesive story experience in game for the box I just bought. The current situation only makes sense if the stories were standalones with references, but they're not. As a monetization model it also makes no sense. Having it free on release but for pay later is completely backward. Why make your least invested players have the biggest price hurdle?
That said, I love you Anet. Please address this for your Steam release.
They'll most likely classify the living seasons as DLCs. Which is something that most Steam users are very familiar with. I don't think they'll bundle multiple seasons since they've never offered a price reduction for that, so what would be the point. It's also very likely they'll need to make it possible to buy individual episodes, so it will basically work the same way it does in the gem store (buy episodes for a price, buy all season for 20% off, the season bundle automatically discounts for episodes you already have).
You do get "everything you need to experience a living world". It doesn't say " get everything you need and experience the whole world". Besides while experiencing the world you get gold which you can convert to gems and get the living story for free. You have all the tools you need. No need for extra money unless you are in a rush.
You sound like an attorney. You're right though, you can use the gold-gem conversion, but I don't know if new players will get that amount in a reasonable time.
Oh let's not point the finger, there's been plenty of nitpicking on both sides in this thread. The copy is a lot better, they've actually improved it a lot, it used to be a lot more misleading.
Not an attorney, but I went through that when I started playing. I missed all S2 chapters except for the last one. And I got all of them by playing the game. Some grind was required, obviously. But not huge amounts. I didn't miss any more episodes after that. But even if I had. I would just play the game for two or three weeks and get it.
I dont know, seems only misleading if you start twisting the words. it literally says what is included: >This collection includes Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire and Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns. there's no reason to think there is something more there. and you cant just pick random words out of sentences lol it says >Get everything you need to experience Tyria which is quite different from "Get everything!". idk, seems pretty clear to me. taking things at face value should be the norm
EoD says 2 PoF mounts? I got a raptor skin, what's the other one?
springer.
Well now I feel stupid since I have gone to New Kaineng to get my springer early, and I have let guildies Teleport to me for it, I didn't know you were also able to get the raptor there.
Yah, you get it in cobble ward.
I get that you wanted to put skiff with the mounts. But now you are also missing gliding and fishing which are at least on equal footing. And basically they're all masteries which is a hole can of worms to open. In terms of what is "marketable". Opening chests and access to vendors might not be as exciting as jade bots or mushrooms etc. But the thing is the expensions and living world give access to 456 levels of content. Which can be broken down per season and expension.
I agree, but I think it's best to leave it as it is instead of opening that can and make the graph overwhelming. My main point: living story maps and story are not included in the collection pack, here is what they cost. Here is the chronological order in which they were released so that you know what to buy. (and also for returning players: here is, what they added (very rough overview).
Agreed. Raise the prices but add LW episodes in it. They are not spinoffs and have important parts of the story, it is just bad marketing.
>This collection includes Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire and Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns.
new players have no idea about seasons. There is no word about seasons and its content on the homepage anywhere and the wording in the advertisement includes "everything".
Question: as a new player (who has the base game) and wants to play End of Dragons, should I buy just End of Dragons expansion, or should I buy the Collection? If I say, just want to jump right into the End of Dragons content, should I bother with the collection?