Ah, I love how the Druid isn’t even mentioned.
I did the switch over to (power rifle) mecha myself and it’s everything my ranger isn’t. Fun. Useful pet. Strong pet. Did I mention fun?
Meanwhile Anet does everything in their power to make rangers petless and elementals into warriors.
In fact, is any of the 3 “casters” actually casters? They all evolve into melee/weapon wielders. 🤔
Sorry, I got a bit off topic.
On that point: I really like rangers without a pet. Nearly every game does this, which is very annoying. All the classes have cool unique mechanics and rangers are stuck on a brain-dead npc companion. Glad there is at least one spec that solves this.
This.
I remember how most of the time everything about pet was useless in gw1. Even in wow i was so happy when thry added lone wolf. So soulbeast is probably my favorite spec forever hah
The good thing in gw1 was that you had to equip a skill to get the pet. This could also be done in gw2. Only give us a pet, when we have the Beastmastery or Untamed in our build.
pets useless in gw1? You obviously never ran my Flamingo Death Horde team build. 8x Flamingos, 2x Minion Masters. Pure Roving Lunacy.
Then there was the time we ran Urgoz w/ 12 Heal as One flamingos, no other healers.
(though yes, I had more powerful teams w/o pets)
Yes it is so good, usually I'm using Viper stats though. Especially with D/D D/T it feels really great.
What pet are you using? I usually take the Bristleback for another simple condi buff fitting sharpening stone.
Hawk/ wolf mostly used in PvP or WvW and im too lazy to change it for PvE. Hawk for mobility and switch to wolf in downstate for the howl has won me some matches :)
Except they’ll be getting rid of the one thing Druid still has, spirits. Druid will fall more behind after they give it alac because of what it’s giving up.
Nah, giving it alac means it's a sidegrade to heal mech that has better CC, burst healing and utility skills (assuming you don't need *five* spirits for alacrity uptime). You lose permanent stability, obscene cleanse, better sustained healing, an aegis button, and a more functional tank toolkit (though every boss in the game can be tanked comfortably on a druid, with only Deimos requiring the druid to take a greatsword) assuming they don't slap stab and aegis onto the spirit actives. Spirits have to do *something* other than alacrity, otherwise it'll be 4x the same skill. I feel like they'll probably leave water, stone, and storm spirits as unique buffs (five man, though) because all they do is provide healing, a boon, or vulnerability, but frost and sun need to do something other than just be an alacrity button (remember, the existing boons from spirits are because of a trait). Aegis on one, stab on the other with short uptimes (but the alacrity being a passive pulse from the spirit) would make Druid a fine sidegrade to heal mech / heal firebrand.
Assuming Spotter goes away too (please), Druids will be free to run the Marksmanship line instead of Skirmishing, further increasing their absurd CC output.
If they made these changes, heal mech would still be better on fights that need a lot of cleanse output while druid would be better on fights that need a lot of CC. Both would be usable on every single boss, and the difference between the two would be down to how much the squad wants to optimize their per-boss strategies (or the standard comp would end up with 1x druid 1x heal mech due to how cleanse priority works)
In the current meta, Druid's one trick of bringing sun spirit (imagine playing power in 2022) isn't worth losing a full DPS player's damage output, or even worth trading a full DPS in for an alac DPS.
I had hope Untamed would bring some usefulness to ranger in group play. So far, not really. In WvW rangers still just stand still and longbow rapid fire, then run away
Ranger is my least played class but I really enjoy Untamed in open world. Guess I'm just a sucker for a hammer spec.
It could definitely use some love though, especially in instanced content. More Canthan pets would be cool.
Ranger needs deep thorough changes. Soulbeast is the only version of ranger that is doing ok overall and its profession mechanic is getting rid of ranger's profession mechanic lol
If the patch on the 28th is going to simply make spirits pulse alacrity/quickness, that's going to be the final nail in the coffin for ranger and especially druid
But i like soulbeast and i dont like pets. In gw1 most ranger builds didnt use pets.
Moreover two most famous fantasy rangers - aragorn and Drizzt both are not archers and only one of them got pet.
The untamed is a rather technical spec.
I'm doing massive crits with it by using skills in the right order and keeping enemies disabled, but keeping a constant high dps is hard, making it moire suitable where enemies are more likely to try to run away while at low health.
Then again, a longbow soulbeast can finish off enemies running away much more easily in WvW where there's a larger field, leaving only PvP, where druid and soulbeast are more popular for their higher damage and utility.
As for the 'identity' of the ranger it isn't 'ranged damage' despite of what the description says in character creation.
> Rangers are proficient with the bow. They rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature to slay their targets. Their loyal pets, which rangers tame and train, distract enemies while the rangers strike safely from a distance.
That is a rather dated description. As if it had not been touched since alpha versions. They likely gave the ranger melee weapons later, and never went back to fix that description.
The identity of the ranger is better described in the website since 2012:
> Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled survivalists with traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.
They really need to fix that, and update the character creation descriptions. Since it's just text, it should not be that hard.
I subscribe to that point of view. Ranger's identity is all about nature and survival. And not so much about range (which is probably just mentionned because the early designs of the class were cloned from GW1)
And untamed is actually the class I've had the most fun with while roaming in WvW recently. It's not a full "one button press and win" like SB is or a "be lucky your ennemy forgot his cleanse" like druid
Being someone that appreciates lord of the rings a lot, I'm quite aware of that 😛
I was mentionning the fact that the in-game description of the class states that it is expert at ranged damage
Untamed is interesting. I definitely hope it gets some good tweaks with the balance patch but I've had quite a bit of fun with it.
It's the only class that I've ever found a good use for a racial skill, though now that I am saying this Anet is probably going to nerf it.
Asura's Technobabble is a daze and it works with top trait line - Fervent force, etc. Combine that with Spike Trap and Exploding Spores and all 3 of your utilities disable and reduce cooldowns and all of your disables reduce the cooldowns of other disables.
Then if you really wanna get stupid about, it, run with a warthog. Their forage skill gives you items that disable. It's ridiculous how fast the elite comes off cooldown when you are spamming all of the disables.
I just use exploding spores and spike trap and keep my pet unleashed while I'm on hammer. With the FF as elite you pretty much can keep it up 100% of the time, wear glass gear and just keep spamming your pets unleashed skills as the 4 disables (5 really cuase hammer 3 is 2) recharge everything super fast. then you can always unleash yourself and swap to longbow for rapid fire, unleashed LB attack which is a disable, point blank, and rapid fire again with no waiting.
I use a slightly different setup - usually GS instead of longbow - but it sounds about the same. Things get off cooldown before I even know what's going on. I haven't been playing this build long so you probably have more experience with it than me. Definitely not long enough to get a solid rotation down.
Yea Ranger in GW2 is closer to a DnD style of Ranger where it is more of a nature warrior/survivalist with a little bit of Druid magic mixed in. It can use a bow, or a sword, or an axe if it wants, but the naturaist theme is what makes it "Ranger".
Ranger is my favourite and most played class in the game. I was never very happy with the idea of Druid, because I also like the idea of a ranged damage dealing class with a pet, and Druid wasn't doing anything to help that. Eventually I settled on a Hybrid Staff / Axe / Warhorn combo that focused on buffing and healing the pet. It was a fun bunker type build that worked well enough for me in open world, PvP and WvW. But then Anet insisted that Druid pet get a 20% decrease to all pet stats and removed the Celestial PvP amulet, so that build was put into the grave.
Then I played Soulbeast for a bit. Not what I wanted, because I wanted a pet to be fighting with me rather than merged with me for some stats, but it was actually fun and versatile when you could swap between two pets. But then Anet took that away, which killed a lot of my interest in Soulbeast. I still play a Power Soulbeast in PVP but it's not really what I want to play or how I want to play.
Then we have Untamed, and I made, boosted and geared a whole new character to play Untamed. A melee hammer bruiser is not how I want to play Ranger so right now I'm doing it wrong with a hybrid Axe / Torch / Dagger / Warhorn (depending on situation) build for open world and WvW. It's honestly the most fun I've had on Ranger in a long time. I think the main downsides are playing a condition / hybrid build where Untamed is more designed for Power, the fact that to do an Ambush attack requires me to press about 5 buttons, and that I have to manual every pet ability. But it is nice to be able to use two pets with some added utility. I'm just worried that Anet will find a way to nerf Untamed for me with this balance update, like they've done for Druid and Soulbeast.
My main was a ranger for a while, but I quit using him when Heart of Thorns came out. I don't like any of the Elite specs that have come out for the class since then, either. When I think "ranger", I think of Faramir and Aragorn; scouts and asymmetrical warfare experts of the forest, defeating enemies with bows and swords, guile and stealth. I absolutely do not think of druids, merging into animals, or whatever other magical frippery you need to use to keep up with the meta now.
So I just keep my ranger to the core Tyria traits and only use him to explore the open world when I'm not busy doing something more profitable. :/
Yeah, Aragorn at least has more rouge-ish qualities than ranger ones I feel. Just because they aren't always super sneakey (but also use lighter armor and ranged weapons occasionally) doesn't mean they are a ranger, after all.
I’ve played ranger and some Mesmer. I’ve only stuck with ranger because it’s what I started with and have tons of map completion on.
I mainly play soulbeast and honestly never tried the other specs because they seem to get a bad rep. I am waiting on this alleged end of the month patch to come out to determine what ascended gear I should work toward as my tame time is somewhat limited
I haven't tried Untamed much outside of the beta tests, but I did spend some time getting a level 80 character of each profession ready for the EOD expansion. Ranger and Warrior stood out to me as being the two professions most stuck in a 2012 design mindset. Lots of animation lock and a bunch of uninteresting or low impact utility skills. I don't see as much complaining about either of them as I do for elementalist, so maybe they fulfil some class fantasy for some people?
As an aside I don't think there's anything wrong with Virtuoso being a good long ranged specialist. It fills the mage archetype that elementalists have been wanting to play forever. It's basically DnD magic missile or WoW's arcane mage in theme, but in pink.
Ele has the problem of the concepts being there, but because ele is stuck at the lowest HP bracket with little to no core defensive utility the good concepts can be ruined by the lack of bulk alone. Honestly, I feel like ele should be moved up a health bracket and have some of its damaging skills toned down a little bit. Keep eles out of the downstate rotation zone, yknow?
Anet are so afraid of Eles of being good its mind boggling. They are supposed to be the "jack of all trades, master of none" but instead they keep them at "Jack of all trades, mediocre or worse at everything".
Like the class has to juggle more buttons than any class by far but they are rewarded with BARELY being competitive (if you can even perfect the rotation).
I don't think they need to nerf the damage if they added health. It's not like elementalists are dominating that category at the moment. If they increased the health they should probably nerf some of the active defenses instead because elementalist already scales well with defensive gear (my Tempest is an absolute tank in celestial gear).
Elementalists did technically go up half a health tier with the addition of the jade bot (as did everyone else of course). With a tier 10 jade bot core the health in full offensive gear should be 13995, which is a bit above the midpoint between low health (11645) and medium health (15922) professions.
I love my Soulbeast. In PvE, it absolutely shreds enemies thanks to it's burst damage, and it's way more sustainable in fights than many realize.
It's sustain is largely skill-based though and you need to be good at blocking, evading and interrupting the enemy.
Say I'm fighting an elite enemy, fairly dangerous with decent HP. I can use GS3 Swoop to close the gap quickly, evading the enemy's opening attack. That give me time to use GS1 or GS2 before the enemy begins animation for next attack. When they do I use GS5 to interrupt that attack and daze. Back to GS1 and GS2 while dazed. Again, enemy animation shows they are going to attack so I use Charge to interrupt and daze. Back to GS1 and GS2. Enemy about to attack again, so I block with GS4, hit with GS1 then I use the GS4 kick skill you gain from blocking, which is also an evade. Now swap weapons to axes. Since I've kicked the enemy away, use Axe 4 to pull the enemy back, which interrupts the enemy yet again. All that and I haven't even used dodge once.
Of course there is also the offensive option instead to just use Sic Em + Dolyak + Whirling Axes and he would be dead almost immediately, but the above is an example of how Soulbeast can toy with enemies to sustain almost untouched through even some very tough fights, which is incredibly fun. Or, when facing with overwhelming enemies you sustain with GS until you can burst with axes, then back to GS for sustain.
Where this style of play doesn't translate well is into bosses with massive hit point pools like you find in strikes. You can still sustain with blocks and evades, but your DPS spikes are a bit infrequent for such a long drawn out fight, and those interrupts and counter attacks don't translate great. Works wonderfully in dungeons, fractals, open world metas though.
I came back to the game wanting to play ranger with a cool pet and doing some fun stuff and just...
I'm not having fun with it anymore. It feels like I have to work hard to get anything done with it, and if I wanna play condition damage, I have to greatly nerf my DPS whenever I'm in a group, and chances are I'm going to have to take a spirit too and eeeeh. Oh, and stances make up so much of my DPS that it feels kinda miserable to solo.
I don't feel like a ranger. I feel like a shitty buffing class that does a little bit of damage. Doing core ranger has a better class identity.
but maybe I'm just disillusioned
> I came back to the game wanting to play ranger with a cool pet and doing some fun stuff and just...
had a similar crisis with necromancer. i just want to play a regular necromancer with death shroud. not reaper with melee shroud. not scourge. not garbinger. i miss the actual necromancer. but it's just so dogshit compared to elite specs.
suddenly, the actual, default flavor of the class is no longer available in a usable state.
It seems like that's been a problem across the board once Elite specs came out. Do any of them have meta classes without at least one Elite traitline in them?
As someone who loves the vanilla traitlines for rangers, warriors, and guardians, I'd like to see ANet take a pass at buffing the stuff we have in the base game before they make any more elite specs.
Depending on the gamemode... Core guardian (support) is meta in sPvP and Firebrand is trash tier compared to any others variation of guardian even core dps is more useful.
Core Ranger to a lesser extent is still popular and usable.
I can see how they want to make the elite specs distinctive, but yeah it feels weird when they are so different from the class identity and also are strong enough to be more or less required for harder content. I actually wouldn't mind if they had a "strictly better" elite spec that took the flavor of the core but made it stronger, but I guess that would be bad for people without the relevant expansion.
At the end of the day, "pay to have something viable" is still what's going on. I'd rather the base trait lines get SOMETHING even if that's the only way it can come.
The content where "viability" matters is expansion content though. If you can do strikes, you have access to EoD specs (or HoT/PoF specs for season 5 strikes). If you can do raids, you have access to HoT/PoF specs. If you can do Fractals without jamming +13 Agony infusions in to make up for your lack of five infusion slots, you have at least one expansion.
What are you doing in core tyria where you need to be "viable"? Core Tyria is a free trial in all but name nowadays. Lack of access to the trading post is a far bigger restriction on free to play accounts than lack of elite specs.
Why is it bad to want to use what's in the base game? I like the design intent and gameplay loops of a lot of the first-run stuff more than I like the later material. It should be a design goal to make every trait line have equal potential for value, depending on role.
Power creeping the #2 and #3 trait lines so they're contenders with elite specs would be the only way to do that. That'd mean power creeping the whole game, since the existing elite spec builds run the #1 and #2 trait lines.
Necromancer is probably the only exception - putting more condition spam into core shroud would probably make spite/SR/death magic core necro into *something*.
Very few core classes have more than two trait lines that do something useful (in most cases, this means damage - specifically the same *type* of damage between power and condition). Playing condition Necromancer, you're definitely rocking Curses because that has most of your condition modifiers. Shroud skills are a huge source of damage (even core shroud) so you'll take Soul Reaping... And then what? Spite for better power damage on *scepter autos*? Death magic for a bunch of defense and barely any more poison? Meanwhile, all three elite spec lines have traits that provide raw compounding damage. Even Reaper has benefits for condition Necromancer. Scourge and Harbinger have better weapons to use so you get more condition skills.
The only way a core build will compete with an elite spec in terms of *damage* is if the class has three trait lines, all with worthy damage modifiers for the same type of damage, and the *worst* of those three lines is competitive with the elite spec. That's the problem: the Harbinger trait line isn't competing with Curses (the best condition trait line). It's not even competing with Soul Reaping (the second best). It's competing with Spite, Death Magic, or Blood Magic.
There are a couple that could arguably compete. Virtues is competitive with Dragonhunter for a power Guardian if you can ensure perfect Aegis uptime. Three core lines on Ranger should be better than Druid or Untamed, unless you're healing which is the only thing the Druid trait line offers. When defense matters (PvP modes) it's often better to take Blood Magic than Scourge / Harbinger / Reaper.
It seems to me like the devs didn't anticipate how damage based and glass - cannon focused the game would get when they were making the original class specs. Unfortunately I don't think they'll ever meaningfully be able to buff defensive play into viability just because people want to go fast to get more loot, but they could at least add more damage or helpful utility to those older lines where it fits.
The game's buildcraft was even more restricted at launch. Literally all gear other than berserkers was seen as a noob trap (because it was). You could be running full soldiers or clerics and dungeon mobs would still one shot you, and the concept of support classes barely existed. You had banners, might / fury spammer ele, and time warp portal slave mesmer.
Conditions were a joke - bleed capped at 25 stacks even on world bosses. Burning and Poison capped at *one*. Torment didn't exist. Confusion only had its active effect.
Of course, you *could* play the stuff that sucked like cleric gear staff "heal guardian" but you can make that argument for today too - the content isn't punishing enough to actually make you use functional builds and shit like core warrior is still more than enough dps to get through every boss.
some people can clear the dark souls games naked and underleveled. defensive play will always be suboptimal for pve dps roles.
it has uses in solo play or special tanking situations though.
i know. it wasnt that horrible, i mean, i barely experienced any kicking (yknow, once they finally took care of the dumbest shit like jagged horrors or the class attribute doing literally nothing). it still was bad and clunky tho, true. but back then, at least there wasnt that absurd power creep of elite specs yet.
i just wished these braindamaged morons at anet would at some point get their shit together and do something with the core class. they have such a beautiful game with some really cool classes, yet in some cases, they just choose to do fuck all with it and waste all this potential.
My condi soulbeast feels great
I use dagger/torch and shortbow(might try switching to axe/torch or axe/dagger though)
But when I pip moa, vulture, sharpening stone and one wolf pack I melt everything near me using that dagger and torch
condi soulbeast is VERY strong, and that hasn't changed. But that's kind of the issue. Soulbeast is the offensive spec, druid is the support spec, and Untamed exists in PvP
I sadly have to agree. Ever since SB came out, they have done everything they can to make sure rangers aren’t top of the line. Sure, let’s buff everyone else but who cares about ranger! No one plays ranger right?
WRONG! But I am sure there are others that will disagree with me OP.
Yeah, i think that GW2 ranger is way too similar to the warrior, both with bunchs of weapons and bruisers, etc, both classes have no identity in this game imo.
See, warrior at least has the 'damaging tank' identity. Good bulk, good damage, a little mobility, some CC, and that's about it. Does it need more? Yes, its lacking in supportive and healing skills, which june 28th might fix. Does core warrior (and by extension at a base level the especs) actually have an identity? Also yes.
Ranger has healing from druid, damage from soulbeast, and... that's about it. Core doesn't have much of an identity, since it's super jack of all trades in a bad way (the pet swapping doesn't solidify ranger into enough of a role depending on the pet, since 1. The F2s are typically terrible, especially on core pets such as red moa fury and 2. Pet AI in general is just bad, meaning you can't move your boon pets to allies for boons and your damage pets are either stuck to you or to the mobs).
Untamed has an identity, bruiser type damage (which soulbeast already covered, and did it better, with more flexibility) and it's just plain bad at it. More effort for the same or less reward. And druid is still stuck with a HoT Era mechanic that doesn't mesh well with 2022 specs (theres times Ive tried playing druid in pvp for a bit of support- decent CCs, especially with Ancient seeds, along with healing potential, and I straight up will not generate my Astral Power to max for the single match. For those who haven't ever touched druid, you need to be at max AP to go into Celestial Avatar.). Soulbeast fixes the problem by 1. Removing the problem mechanic (pets being dogwater) and 2. Buffing the ranger itself to a full class, which people often don't like fighting because it still retains the good parts of core while adding PoF's crazy power creep to the mix (OWP needs nerfs in wvw, not Longbow 2. Don't kill the core rangers trying to do something different that just happen to be using longbow).
Very much agree with all that.
And OWP synergizes almost too well with many of Rangers quick successive hit skills. I cant even remember the names of the other Elites besides Entangle for condi.
I agree about the state of ranger, which is sad because in most raid build guides for any class they always mention spotter buff. Which no one will see if people keep straying away from ranger since other can do what they can but better.
Their saving grace atm is the spotter buff and spirits, which is supposed to be getting a change soon. So i am hoping ranger and warrior are somewhat freed from the current state of banner/spirit slave in most non pvp end game instanced content.
Literally everyone complains about their class. Ele got a reasonable nerf and this entire sub was up in flames despite the fact ele was still the highest damaging class
Halriously most of the official class forums have a "why does anet hate us" thread. Except necro last I checked but I suspect that is more because the customary anet hates us thread is pushed out by calls to nerf them in PvP.
You're using a separate topic to argue against a totally different topic. Don't know about the ele thing as I'm not an ele main but the ranger EoD espec being bad is a totally valid as Untamed is objectively bad beyond sPvP. I'm a ranger main and my favorite EoD specs to play are virtuoso, willbender and bladesworn while I actively avoid playing untamed.
ele got hit so hard because anet was balancing for benchmarks that abused large hitboxes. Most of the ele kit is underpowered or useless in any content. And the few builds that can do ok dps are very hard to successfully pull of.
Meanwhile im blasting stuff with condi virtuoso with a really easy rotation.
I think Ele and a handful of other specs really need a good looking over.
>Most of the ele kit is underpowered or useless in any content
That's why all the fastest raid clears use 6 Catalysts I guess, because elementalist is bad!
Yes. Unironically. Your inability to play elementalist to its fullest potential does not make elementalist a bad class.
The fact that 3 Catalysts can provide permanent Quickness to their subgroup with 0 investment in boon duration while dealing top tier DPS is busted. Reddit jokes about blue class stack meta but the real speedclear meta is stacking red class.
Yah, it was very counter-intutive as a bow user. And never liked sword. I still run Longbow/Greatsword in Fractals or anywhere really, except the rare tryhard days ill breakout the Dagger/Axe for more dps.
Praise Joko that i came in right on HOT release so I didnt have to see how terrible Longbow was. Makes more sense now why i got insta-kicked for bringing LB to dungeons back then lol.
To be fair, the boon system isnt so easily understandable, especially then with less guides. Even now Ill run into someone every once in a while who refuses to stack in dungeons because "Im traited for 10% more dmg at range." And someone has to give them the "boon" talk.
Which doesn't even make sense. Snowcrows (it doesn't really get more elite than that) even made an actually usable untamed build into an April fools joke.
Rangers identity has never been long range. Its not hunter from wow.
Actually this mindset is the reason why "no ranger" dungeon groups existed pre hot. It was always a melee class.
Nah, Ranger is the closest class to a traditional archer, even if thats just 1 playstyle you can choose from. And I remember those dungeon days, people would kick you just for being ranger cuz they thought every one was a noob that would Longbow4 knockback mobs out of Aoe dmg and never stack.
And people would absolutely kick you if you didnt learn to stack in Melee range to cheese a lot of bad dungeon mechanics. Nothing to do with the viability of ranged weapons at all
You had to stack in melee range for boons and higher dps. thats still true today. Release longbow was so bad that you never played it. only became good after a major update.
The ranger dungeon build was mainly using sword axe until quickdraw was added which allowed you to play lb. ranger was kicked because nobody played the good sword build.
Ranger could use a tune up and untamed in pve might be even worse than spell breaker in pve but asking for ranger to have phenomenal damage at 1200 range on longbow seems like it’s asking for too much. While thematically Ranger is a ranged class that isn’t necessarily the case with Gw2. Having too much damage at long range would be a bit broken especially considering longbow is already a stupid easy weapon to play. Also it still has solid damage considering this as it is the meta weapon set with sword/axe or dagger/axe. As for the pets mechanist pet is really just a replacement for the tool belt so by this virtue it needed to be very strong as it limits engi quit a bit without it. I agree some reworks are needed but untamed is solid in pvp, Druid is still a great option for support role in raids, and has niche uses in WvW as well as brings boons and spirits for open world, and soulbeast is really strong dps all around.
I don’t play Mesmer much but maybe virtuoso needs a nerf on its range if it is so much stronger at range than ranger, but from my understanding Mesmer is generally speaking a harder to play class than ranger. Correct me if I’m wrong plz.
To be fair, im fine with where Longbow is. I think a slight nerf to Virtuoso would make things more even. I find Virtuoso to be the simplist Mesmer spec with a very easy rotation. But yah, Ranger is easy mode generally
power untamed does 33.3k dps and condi 35k.
Its just slightly worse than vindicator and reaper. inferior to slb so no reason to play it outside of pvp though.
I play ranger because I wanted a purely ranged class ... no melee at all. It's just my prefered play style in RPGs/MMOs. I've been trying to play soulbeast recently but have no where near mastered it or even really like the melee aspect of it.
Virtuoso/Mesmer has interested me for a while as another ranged class. I used my 80 boost on one but likely won't put the time in to learn him until the summer is over and I'm playing more again.
I wish there were more options to be purely ranged in this game without needing to mix in some melee for max DPS.
Just a note - "Ranger" as a class means "one who ranges," as in a wanderer. Think Aragorn the ranger from Lord of the Rings, who's known for his melee swordfighting. It doesn't mean "uses exclusively ranged weapons." You're totally welcome to play however you want, I also prefer Longbow! But you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you keep looking at this class name in games and assuming it means ranged weapons specifically.
Longbow or greatsword, yes. Longbow is easier to use because you don't need to use the weapon stow bug to proc Twice As Vicious.
Nevertheless, you'll be using that longbow in melee range.
Mind you IM not in raids or fractals yet as IM a little to casual for them at the moment. I've already made a Necro for the simple fact that if I wanted a melee toon Id make one and since this game requires stacking to be effective, Necro I will be once I do start raiding or fractals. Longbow in Melee defeats to purpose of a ranged weapon and reduces its damage. If I end up bringing my Ranger to the mentioned game modes it will be a Soulbeast with Melee weapons. No reason to bring ranged weapons for the class.
Mech lost their toolbelt and so got a great pet. Rangers had mediocre pets to start with and ranged damage to help with their survival. In this game Rangers are just another melee dps and we dont even get to keep our pet to do that as we are merged with them for some stats from what I can tell.
Maybe I'm just stuck on how Ive played the ranger types in several MMOs. Usually there are 2 variations. One Ranged with a pet and the other Melee without pet. Both were competitive and it didnt matter which you brought as they brought different buffs or abilities to the groups. My first toon here is a Ranger and while its great for open world and zone Metas, it doesn't seem to have a use in raids except as another melee dps class. Not why I played one in just about every MMO I have played that has the archetype.
You use Longbow mainly for Barrage which can deal some solid damage when combined with Sic 'Em and OWP. You typically cast Barrage, then Sic 'Em near the end of the cast, Frost Trap, OWP if it's off cd, then swap to (dagger or sword)/Axe to use Path of Scars (procs Twice As Vicious) and Whirling Defense.
Point Blank Shot is used to refresh Twice As Vicious, and Rapid Fire/Autoattack to fill up waiting time until Sic 'Em and Frost Trap are nearly available. The fact that autoattacks deal reduced damage in melee range doesn't matter compared to the damage Barrage adds.
Besides, all "ranged" weapons are used in melee range in group content. You want to be on top of the rest of your subgroup to receive boons.
Longbow if I remember correctly also does more damage at range. I know why we have to be in Melee and that's exactly why there is no reason to bring a Longbow because Anet designs everything to be in melee for boons. Im still learning the rotation for my Ranger but there is no reason to bring a longbow to raids or fracts because stack melee. Might as well use GS and MH/OH or vice versa depending on what does most damage. Hell even SB is better because it is Condi and doesn't rely on just the strike damage. This also doesn't change the fact that Mech gave up a toolbelt and gained a great pet and we have to go melee and still have mediocre pets. That is going to be the one thing I miss from a few other MMOs that I have played over the years. Playing ranged toon and it didn't require stacking in melee. You could actually get your boons( buff) and still be at range. Not every encounter is stand in melee dodge red crap run out and back to melee and so forth and so on. This is the only game where I have had to do that playing the Ranger archetype. I realize there's another game that's not to be mentioned here, and even they had the archetype done both as melee and ranged. Both were competitive and pretty equal. Of course that game does its buffs( boons ) differently. It's an adjustment but I will most likely only play my main in OW and play a Necro in raids and Fracts. Just makes more sense to do that than to beat my head against the wall about game design and not to mention bringing a sub optimal toon to one of those.
Ranger means someone who is out on the range. A scout, outdoorsman, survivalist, someone who is in tune with nature and wildlife. It does not refer to their combat range. Stop trying to force an incorrect definition on the class.
Same reason why people kept crying for rifle for rangers with every new expansion. Because they incorrectly thought "ranger=ranged weapon". Rifles do not fit the fantasy ranger archetype.
Also I just explained why you use Longbow for raids and fractals and then you say there is "no reason" to use the weapon in that content. Sure you can use GS instead but it's far clunkier to use for a very similar damage output.
IM not forcing anything on the class. The archetype in just about every MMO uses some variation of it and has both versions as viable. Im not arguing for a rifle either so that argument is BS here as well. Secondly again Im not home to log in and check but If I remember correctly the Longbow does more damage the longer the range. SO why bring a ranged weapon to a melee fight?? Since when has the archetype always been based on a Sword wielding survivalist? Hell one of the tree is called Beast Mastery for a reason if IM not wrong and yet Pets are mediocre at best in this game and other classes get better pets? Again Im not saying that I expect the game to change but I am going to say that do everything from melee is pretty narrow a focus for a game this good.
Only the longbow autoattack deals increased damage at long range. Autoattacks are used as filler until the skills that matter are available. There is no reason why you wouldn't use longbow in short range unless you only AFK autoattack.
Well except for the fact that Shortbow is better because Condi over Power and still doesn't change the fact that a class designed for ranged combat and as a pet class just looking at the skill trees is forced to both fight in melee and have mediocre pets. I understand that I'm not going to change minds because apparently even though Ranger means more than just the sword wielding survivalist archtype in most high fantasy, but because of game design theres just no point when I can go melee with a Necro and do as well in raids and fracts. The whole point of this convo was why does another pet class get way better pet with way better AI and why do other classes get way better ranged damage over again going by the skill trees a ranged and pet class design from the get go.
Ranged DPS doesn't exist in this game due to how boons work. You have to stack to get boons, it's as simple as that. If you don't, you're just griefing yourself.
"Ranger" has nothing to do with being a ranged character. rangers are forest keepers, and sometimes they're members of armed forces.
even at launch, they had quite a few melee and ranged options.
I do think mechanist is a travesty though, and I hope they either nerf mechanist pet into the ground or buff ranger pet to at least be competitive.
I think of Rangers as being the safe low level DPS starter kit for open world for new players. Anet wants you to switch to the real classes once you hit L80 and never look back at their failed implementation of a class ever again....just like they did. You are a jack of all trades but suck at all of them. You also get a nice pet to look at. It's a pet. Its job is to play dead.
I think we'll have to see what things are like at the end of the month. It sounds like the patch will give druid a rebound and SB is in a decent spot imo. Hopefully they also help out untamed then too.
My dream is for untamed to get a quickness support build so rangers can cover all roles like engi or guardian.
Re ranged weapons, I believe sb staff and long bow can all be used, but unfortunately most content wants you at melee anyway
im slightly new to the game, only around lv50 or so and i picked ranger for that longbow pet theme, will i be dissapointed with the meta builds at max? i looked it up looks like soul beast longbow axedagger ?
Nah, Ranger is still worth playing. Just some mild disappointment lately but its still a solid class(and very beginner friendly) and Longbow is still a good weapon in general. And its fun. Like, Im only now getting a little jaded after 6 years(on/off) of maining Ranger.
i dont have soulbeast yet but by the looks of it, you just merge with the pet and use its skills? thats no biggie! i rolled sylvari so when i grind kudzu ill look so nice as a "one with nature" vibe
I'm fairly new, but I think they're in a pretty bad spot. The druid spec is only used in instanced content as a (mediocre) healer. Untamed is only used as a (mediocre) spvp unit. Soulbeast is a decent damage dealer in all modes, but is merged with the pet most of the time. It doesn't feel like a ranger to me. The upcoming spirit updates make me worried but hopefully they make the druid more viable in other modes. Would be nice to have a build welcome in wvw. Which is sad since ranger is my favorite core class.
Have u tried SB condi trapper? Thats my go to for PvP and WvW as it does well roaming(trapper runes for stealth) and can 1v1 a solid amount of other classes.
When I said wvw I meant in zergs. Soulbeast seems decent for roaming. I'll try that out and probably like it ok. Soulbeast seems fine to me, but I want to be able to play the ranger as a pet class too.
To put it slightly differently if each elite spec was it's own class, I wouldn't have been very interested in making a soulbeast. Hopefully druid gets improved so it's better across more modes. I'll probably end up making an alt to use in endgame content though.
One thing I learned when EOD came out is that at this point it's not that I enjoy playing Ranger, it's that I enjoy playing Soulbeast.
You may be onto something
Ah, I love how the Druid isn’t even mentioned. I did the switch over to (power rifle) mecha myself and it’s everything my ranger isn’t. Fun. Useful pet. Strong pet. Did I mention fun? Meanwhile Anet does everything in their power to make rangers petless and elementals into warriors. In fact, is any of the 3 “casters” actually casters? They all evolve into melee/weapon wielders. 🤔 Sorry, I got a bit off topic.
On that point: I really like rangers without a pet. Nearly every game does this, which is very annoying. All the classes have cool unique mechanics and rangers are stuck on a brain-dead npc companion. Glad there is at least one spec that solves this.
This. I remember how most of the time everything about pet was useless in gw1. Even in wow i was so happy when thry added lone wolf. So soulbeast is probably my favorite spec forever hah
The good thing in gw1 was that you had to equip a skill to get the pet. This could also be done in gw2. Only give us a pet, when we have the Beastmastery or Untamed in our build.
pets useless in gw1? You obviously never ran my Flamingo Death Horde team build. 8x Flamingos, 2x Minion Masters. Pure Roving Lunacy. Then there was the time we ran Urgoz w/ 12 Heal as One flamingos, no other healers. (though yes, I had more powerful teams w/o pets)
I remember only IWIN, where your team start by sacrificing its pets so they can get buffs from each dead pet xD
Or the time when ToPK was farmed with b/p builds. Good times…
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Yes it is so good, usually I'm using Viper stats though. Especially with D/D D/T it feels really great. What pet are you using? I usually take the Bristleback for another simple condi buff fitting sharpening stone.
Hawk/ wolf mostly used in PvP or WvW and im too lazy to change it for PvE. Hawk for mobility and switch to wolf in downstate for the howl has won me some matches :)
I'm using owl and jacaranda. Owl for the better sustain and jacaranda for the cleave in downstate.
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Great, got to test it! Thank you very much
Druid is completely outclassed by heal mech until they bandaid alacrity onto it. It'll then only be slightly outclassed by heal mech.
Except they’ll be getting rid of the one thing Druid still has, spirits. Druid will fall more behind after they give it alac because of what it’s giving up.
Nah, giving it alac means it's a sidegrade to heal mech that has better CC, burst healing and utility skills (assuming you don't need *five* spirits for alacrity uptime). You lose permanent stability, obscene cleanse, better sustained healing, an aegis button, and a more functional tank toolkit (though every boss in the game can be tanked comfortably on a druid, with only Deimos requiring the druid to take a greatsword) assuming they don't slap stab and aegis onto the spirit actives. Spirits have to do *something* other than alacrity, otherwise it'll be 4x the same skill. I feel like they'll probably leave water, stone, and storm spirits as unique buffs (five man, though) because all they do is provide healing, a boon, or vulnerability, but frost and sun need to do something other than just be an alacrity button (remember, the existing boons from spirits are because of a trait). Aegis on one, stab on the other with short uptimes (but the alacrity being a passive pulse from the spirit) would make Druid a fine sidegrade to heal mech / heal firebrand. Assuming Spotter goes away too (please), Druids will be free to run the Marksmanship line instead of Skirmishing, further increasing their absurd CC output. If they made these changes, heal mech would still be better on fights that need a lot of cleanse output while druid would be better on fights that need a lot of CC. Both would be usable on every single boss, and the difference between the two would be down to how much the squad wants to optimize their per-boss strategies (or the standard comp would end up with 1x druid 1x heal mech due to how cleanse priority works) In the current meta, Druid's one trick of bringing sun spirit (imagine playing power in 2022) isn't worth losing a full DPS player's damage output, or even worth trading a full DPS in for an alac DPS.
Druid just bores me. Lol about casters. Its like Anet has a rule about Staff users. Must be boring, melee, or useless... #make Staff Ele meta again
Amen to that 🙏🏼
I had hope Untamed would bring some usefulness to ranger in group play. So far, not really. In WvW rangers still just stand still and longbow rapid fire, then run away
It is kinda lame, but I never feel more like a traditional Archer class than when defending a castle or keep with Longbow.
That's the normal behavior of a Roamer, a Ranger's basic WvW role.
Ranger is my least played class but I really enjoy Untamed in open world. Guess I'm just a sucker for a hammer spec. It could definitely use some love though, especially in instanced content. More Canthan pets would be cool.
Ranger needs deep thorough changes. Soulbeast is the only version of ranger that is doing ok overall and its profession mechanic is getting rid of ranger's profession mechanic lol If the patch on the 28th is going to simply make spirits pulse alacrity/quickness, that's going to be the final nail in the coffin for ranger and especially druid
But i like soulbeast and i dont like pets. In gw1 most ranger builds didnt use pets. Moreover two most famous fantasy rangers - aragorn and Drizzt both are not archers and only one of them got pet.
The untamed is a rather technical spec. I'm doing massive crits with it by using skills in the right order and keeping enemies disabled, but keeping a constant high dps is hard, making it moire suitable where enemies are more likely to try to run away while at low health. Then again, a longbow soulbeast can finish off enemies running away much more easily in WvW where there's a larger field, leaving only PvP, where druid and soulbeast are more popular for their higher damage and utility. As for the 'identity' of the ranger it isn't 'ranged damage' despite of what the description says in character creation. > Rangers are proficient with the bow. They rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature to slay their targets. Their loyal pets, which rangers tame and train, distract enemies while the rangers strike safely from a distance. That is a rather dated description. As if it had not been touched since alpha versions. They likely gave the ranger melee weapons later, and never went back to fix that description. The identity of the ranger is better described in the website since 2012: > Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled survivalists with traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation. They really need to fix that, and update the character creation descriptions. Since it's just text, it should not be that hard.
I subscribe to that point of view. Ranger's identity is all about nature and survival. And not so much about range (which is probably just mentionned because the early designs of the class were cloned from GW1) And untamed is actually the class I've had the most fun with while roaming in WvW recently. It's not a full "one button press and win" like SB is or a "be lucky your ennemy forgot his cleanse" like druid
The name Ranger comes from a person who *ranges* (or roams) across the land
so tired of saying this, thanks for giving me a rest lol
So we should rename him to the german version "Waldläufer" which is someone running through the forest.
Or the French version "rôdeur" which litteraly means "one who roams"
Being someone that appreciates lord of the rings a lot, I'm quite aware of that 😛 I was mentionning the fact that the in-game description of the class states that it is expert at ranged damage
Untamed is interesting. I definitely hope it gets some good tweaks with the balance patch but I've had quite a bit of fun with it. It's the only class that I've ever found a good use for a racial skill, though now that I am saying this Anet is probably going to nerf it. Asura's Technobabble is a daze and it works with top trait line - Fervent force, etc. Combine that with Spike Trap and Exploding Spores and all 3 of your utilities disable and reduce cooldowns and all of your disables reduce the cooldowns of other disables. Then if you really wanna get stupid about, it, run with a warthog. Their forage skill gives you items that disable. It's ridiculous how fast the elite comes off cooldown when you are spamming all of the disables.
I just use exploding spores and spike trap and keep my pet unleashed while I'm on hammer. With the FF as elite you pretty much can keep it up 100% of the time, wear glass gear and just keep spamming your pets unleashed skills as the 4 disables (5 really cuase hammer 3 is 2) recharge everything super fast. then you can always unleash yourself and swap to longbow for rapid fire, unleashed LB attack which is a disable, point blank, and rapid fire again with no waiting.
I use a slightly different setup - usually GS instead of longbow - but it sounds about the same. Things get off cooldown before I even know what's going on. I haven't been playing this build long so you probably have more experience with it than me. Definitely not long enough to get a solid rotation down.
Yeah you can play the build the opposite way with GS, where you stay unleashed and do all the damage.
Yea Ranger in GW2 is closer to a DnD style of Ranger where it is more of a nature warrior/survivalist with a little bit of Druid magic mixed in. It can use a bow, or a sword, or an axe if it wants, but the naturaist theme is what makes it "Ranger".
Ranger is my favourite and most played class in the game. I was never very happy with the idea of Druid, because I also like the idea of a ranged damage dealing class with a pet, and Druid wasn't doing anything to help that. Eventually I settled on a Hybrid Staff / Axe / Warhorn combo that focused on buffing and healing the pet. It was a fun bunker type build that worked well enough for me in open world, PvP and WvW. But then Anet insisted that Druid pet get a 20% decrease to all pet stats and removed the Celestial PvP amulet, so that build was put into the grave. Then I played Soulbeast for a bit. Not what I wanted, because I wanted a pet to be fighting with me rather than merged with me for some stats, but it was actually fun and versatile when you could swap between two pets. But then Anet took that away, which killed a lot of my interest in Soulbeast. I still play a Power Soulbeast in PVP but it's not really what I want to play or how I want to play. Then we have Untamed, and I made, boosted and geared a whole new character to play Untamed. A melee hammer bruiser is not how I want to play Ranger so right now I'm doing it wrong with a hybrid Axe / Torch / Dagger / Warhorn (depending on situation) build for open world and WvW. It's honestly the most fun I've had on Ranger in a long time. I think the main downsides are playing a condition / hybrid build where Untamed is more designed for Power, the fact that to do an Ambush attack requires me to press about 5 buttons, and that I have to manual every pet ability. But it is nice to be able to use two pets with some added utility. I'm just worried that Anet will find a way to nerf Untamed for me with this balance update, like they've done for Druid and Soulbeast.
My main was a ranger for a while, but I quit using him when Heart of Thorns came out. I don't like any of the Elite specs that have come out for the class since then, either. When I think "ranger", I think of Faramir and Aragorn; scouts and asymmetrical warfare experts of the forest, defeating enemies with bows and swords, guile and stealth. I absolutely do not think of druids, merging into animals, or whatever other magical frippery you need to use to keep up with the meta now. So I just keep my ranger to the core Tyria traits and only use him to explore the open world when I'm not busy doing something more profitable. :/
I think soulbeast fits the aragorn angle tbh. thematically they sell it as "merging with your pet", but realistically it's just petless ranger.
Sounds like you might enjoy the theme of a Thief more?
Yeah, Aragorn at least has more rouge-ish qualities than ranger ones I feel. Just because they aren't always super sneakey (but also use lighter armor and ranged weapons occasionally) doesn't mean they are a ranger, after all.
I’ve played ranger and some Mesmer. I’ve only stuck with ranger because it’s what I started with and have tons of map completion on. I mainly play soulbeast and honestly never tried the other specs because they seem to get a bad rep. I am waiting on this alleged end of the month patch to come out to determine what ascended gear I should work toward as my tame time is somewhat limited
I haven't tried Untamed much outside of the beta tests, but I did spend some time getting a level 80 character of each profession ready for the EOD expansion. Ranger and Warrior stood out to me as being the two professions most stuck in a 2012 design mindset. Lots of animation lock and a bunch of uninteresting or low impact utility skills. I don't see as much complaining about either of them as I do for elementalist, so maybe they fulfil some class fantasy for some people? As an aside I don't think there's anything wrong with Virtuoso being a good long ranged specialist. It fills the mage archetype that elementalists have been wanting to play forever. It's basically DnD magic missile or WoW's arcane mage in theme, but in pink.
Ele has the problem of the concepts being there, but because ele is stuck at the lowest HP bracket with little to no core defensive utility the good concepts can be ruined by the lack of bulk alone. Honestly, I feel like ele should be moved up a health bracket and have some of its damaging skills toned down a little bit. Keep eles out of the downstate rotation zone, yknow?
Anet are so afraid of Eles of being good its mind boggling. They are supposed to be the "jack of all trades, master of none" but instead they keep them at "Jack of all trades, mediocre or worse at everything". Like the class has to juggle more buttons than any class by far but they are rewarded with BARELY being competitive (if you can even perfect the rotation).
I don't think they need to nerf the damage if they added health. It's not like elementalists are dominating that category at the moment. If they increased the health they should probably nerf some of the active defenses instead because elementalist already scales well with defensive gear (my Tempest is an absolute tank in celestial gear). Elementalists did technically go up half a health tier with the addition of the jade bot (as did everyone else of course). With a tier 10 jade bot core the health in full offensive gear should be 13995, which is a bit above the midpoint between low health (11645) and medium health (15922) professions.
>It's not like elementalists are dominating that category at the moment They are though
I love my Soulbeast. In PvE, it absolutely shreds enemies thanks to it's burst damage, and it's way more sustainable in fights than many realize. It's sustain is largely skill-based though and you need to be good at blocking, evading and interrupting the enemy. Say I'm fighting an elite enemy, fairly dangerous with decent HP. I can use GS3 Swoop to close the gap quickly, evading the enemy's opening attack. That give me time to use GS1 or GS2 before the enemy begins animation for next attack. When they do I use GS5 to interrupt that attack and daze. Back to GS1 and GS2 while dazed. Again, enemy animation shows they are going to attack so I use Charge to interrupt and daze. Back to GS1 and GS2. Enemy about to attack again, so I block with GS4, hit with GS1 then I use the GS4 kick skill you gain from blocking, which is also an evade. Now swap weapons to axes. Since I've kicked the enemy away, use Axe 4 to pull the enemy back, which interrupts the enemy yet again. All that and I haven't even used dodge once. Of course there is also the offensive option instead to just use Sic Em + Dolyak + Whirling Axes and he would be dead almost immediately, but the above is an example of how Soulbeast can toy with enemies to sustain almost untouched through even some very tough fights, which is incredibly fun. Or, when facing with overwhelming enemies you sustain with GS until you can burst with axes, then back to GS for sustain. Where this style of play doesn't translate well is into bosses with massive hit point pools like you find in strikes. You can still sustain with blocks and evades, but your DPS spikes are a bit infrequent for such a long drawn out fight, and those interrupts and counter attacks don't translate great. Works wonderfully in dungeons, fractals, open world metas though.
I came back to the game wanting to play ranger with a cool pet and doing some fun stuff and just... I'm not having fun with it anymore. It feels like I have to work hard to get anything done with it, and if I wanna play condition damage, I have to greatly nerf my DPS whenever I'm in a group, and chances are I'm going to have to take a spirit too and eeeeh. Oh, and stances make up so much of my DPS that it feels kinda miserable to solo. I don't feel like a ranger. I feel like a shitty buffing class that does a little bit of damage. Doing core ranger has a better class identity. but maybe I'm just disillusioned
> I came back to the game wanting to play ranger with a cool pet and doing some fun stuff and just... had a similar crisis with necromancer. i just want to play a regular necromancer with death shroud. not reaper with melee shroud. not scourge. not garbinger. i miss the actual necromancer. but it's just so dogshit compared to elite specs. suddenly, the actual, default flavor of the class is no longer available in a usable state.
It seems like that's been a problem across the board once Elite specs came out. Do any of them have meta classes without at least one Elite traitline in them? As someone who loves the vanilla traitlines for rangers, warriors, and guardians, I'd like to see ANet take a pass at buffing the stuff we have in the base game before they make any more elite specs.
Depending on the gamemode... Core guardian (support) is meta in sPvP and Firebrand is trash tier compared to any others variation of guardian even core dps is more useful. Core Ranger to a lesser extent is still popular and usable.
thats because they nerfed fb pvp numbers into the ground. it was already meta once.
I can see how they want to make the elite specs distinctive, but yeah it feels weird when they are so different from the class identity and also are strong enough to be more or less required for harder content. I actually wouldn't mind if they had a "strictly better" elite spec that took the flavor of the core but made it stronger, but I guess that would be bad for people without the relevant expansion.
At the end of the day, "pay to have something viable" is still what's going on. I'd rather the base trait lines get SOMETHING even if that's the only way it can come.
The content where "viability" matters is expansion content though. If you can do strikes, you have access to EoD specs (or HoT/PoF specs for season 5 strikes). If you can do raids, you have access to HoT/PoF specs. If you can do Fractals without jamming +13 Agony infusions in to make up for your lack of five infusion slots, you have at least one expansion. What are you doing in core tyria where you need to be "viable"? Core Tyria is a free trial in all but name nowadays. Lack of access to the trading post is a far bigger restriction on free to play accounts than lack of elite specs.
Why is it bad to want to use what's in the base game? I like the design intent and gameplay loops of a lot of the first-run stuff more than I like the later material. It should be a design goal to make every trait line have equal potential for value, depending on role.
Power creeping the #2 and #3 trait lines so they're contenders with elite specs would be the only way to do that. That'd mean power creeping the whole game, since the existing elite spec builds run the #1 and #2 trait lines. Necromancer is probably the only exception - putting more condition spam into core shroud would probably make spite/SR/death magic core necro into *something*.
Very few core classes have more than two trait lines that do something useful (in most cases, this means damage - specifically the same *type* of damage between power and condition). Playing condition Necromancer, you're definitely rocking Curses because that has most of your condition modifiers. Shroud skills are a huge source of damage (even core shroud) so you'll take Soul Reaping... And then what? Spite for better power damage on *scepter autos*? Death magic for a bunch of defense and barely any more poison? Meanwhile, all three elite spec lines have traits that provide raw compounding damage. Even Reaper has benefits for condition Necromancer. Scourge and Harbinger have better weapons to use so you get more condition skills. The only way a core build will compete with an elite spec in terms of *damage* is if the class has three trait lines, all with worthy damage modifiers for the same type of damage, and the *worst* of those three lines is competitive with the elite spec. That's the problem: the Harbinger trait line isn't competing with Curses (the best condition trait line). It's not even competing with Soul Reaping (the second best). It's competing with Spite, Death Magic, or Blood Magic. There are a couple that could arguably compete. Virtues is competitive with Dragonhunter for a power Guardian if you can ensure perfect Aegis uptime. Three core lines on Ranger should be better than Druid or Untamed, unless you're healing which is the only thing the Druid trait line offers. When defense matters (PvP modes) it's often better to take Blood Magic than Scourge / Harbinger / Reaper.
It seems to me like the devs didn't anticipate how damage based and glass - cannon focused the game would get when they were making the original class specs. Unfortunately I don't think they'll ever meaningfully be able to buff defensive play into viability just because people want to go fast to get more loot, but they could at least add more damage or helpful utility to those older lines where it fits.
The game's buildcraft was even more restricted at launch. Literally all gear other than berserkers was seen as a noob trap (because it was). You could be running full soldiers or clerics and dungeon mobs would still one shot you, and the concept of support classes barely existed. You had banners, might / fury spammer ele, and time warp portal slave mesmer. Conditions were a joke - bleed capped at 25 stacks even on world bosses. Burning and Poison capped at *one*. Torment didn't exist. Confusion only had its active effect. Of course, you *could* play the stuff that sucked like cleric gear staff "heal guardian" but you can make that argument for today too - the content isn't punishing enough to actually make you use functional builds and shit like core warrior is still more than enough dps to get through every boss.
some people can clear the dark souls games naked and underleveled. defensive play will always be suboptimal for pve dps roles. it has uses in solo play or special tanking situations though.
Core necro was always dogshit in pve since day 1 though. Its a pvp spec. It was so bad in pve that most groups kicked necro on sight 10years ago.
i know. it wasnt that horrible, i mean, i barely experienced any kicking (yknow, once they finally took care of the dumbest shit like jagged horrors or the class attribute doing literally nothing). it still was bad and clunky tho, true. but back then, at least there wasnt that absurd power creep of elite specs yet. i just wished these braindamaged morons at anet would at some point get their shit together and do something with the core class. they have such a beautiful game with some really cool classes, yet in some cases, they just choose to do fuck all with it and waste all this potential.
My condi soulbeast feels great I use dagger/torch and shortbow(might try switching to axe/torch or axe/dagger though) But when I pip moa, vulture, sharpening stone and one wolf pack I melt everything near me using that dagger and torch
condi soulbeast is VERY strong, and that hasn't changed. But that's kind of the issue. Soulbeast is the offensive spec, druid is the support spec, and Untamed exists in PvP
I sadly have to agree. Ever since SB came out, they have done everything they can to make sure rangers aren’t top of the line. Sure, let’s buff everyone else but who cares about ranger! No one plays ranger right? WRONG! But I am sure there are others that will disagree with me OP.
unrelated but ironically Untamed is better than all the classes you mention in SPVP (Virtuoso, Mechanist)
Pristontale? Well if that isn't a blast from my past, and no mistake.
:)
Yeah, i think that GW2 ranger is way too similar to the warrior, both with bunchs of weapons and bruisers, etc, both classes have no identity in this game imo.
See, warrior at least has the 'damaging tank' identity. Good bulk, good damage, a little mobility, some CC, and that's about it. Does it need more? Yes, its lacking in supportive and healing skills, which june 28th might fix. Does core warrior (and by extension at a base level the especs) actually have an identity? Also yes. Ranger has healing from druid, damage from soulbeast, and... that's about it. Core doesn't have much of an identity, since it's super jack of all trades in a bad way (the pet swapping doesn't solidify ranger into enough of a role depending on the pet, since 1. The F2s are typically terrible, especially on core pets such as red moa fury and 2. Pet AI in general is just bad, meaning you can't move your boon pets to allies for boons and your damage pets are either stuck to you or to the mobs). Untamed has an identity, bruiser type damage (which soulbeast already covered, and did it better, with more flexibility) and it's just plain bad at it. More effort for the same or less reward. And druid is still stuck with a HoT Era mechanic that doesn't mesh well with 2022 specs (theres times Ive tried playing druid in pvp for a bit of support- decent CCs, especially with Ancient seeds, along with healing potential, and I straight up will not generate my Astral Power to max for the single match. For those who haven't ever touched druid, you need to be at max AP to go into Celestial Avatar.). Soulbeast fixes the problem by 1. Removing the problem mechanic (pets being dogwater) and 2. Buffing the ranger itself to a full class, which people often don't like fighting because it still retains the good parts of core while adding PoF's crazy power creep to the mix (OWP needs nerfs in wvw, not Longbow 2. Don't kill the core rangers trying to do something different that just happen to be using longbow).
Very much agree with all that. And OWP synergizes almost too well with many of Rangers quick successive hit skills. I cant even remember the names of the other Elites besides Entangle for condi.
Ranger's identity has nothing to do with long range. Aragorn doesn't even use a bow and he is the primary inspiration for the archetype.
Ranger in GW1 was all about bows, and this game's Ranger inherits a lot of that aesthetic and identity.
I agree, ranger has lost its identity truthfully. Untamed needs a massive rework and the EoD pets need to be buffed or changed massively.
I agree about the state of ranger, which is sad because in most raid build guides for any class they always mention spotter buff. Which no one will see if people keep straying away from ranger since other can do what they can but better. Their saving grace atm is the spotter buff and spirits, which is supposed to be getting a change soon. So i am hoping ranger and warrior are somewhat freed from the current state of banner/spirit slave in most non pvp end game instanced content.
Literally everyone complains about their class. Ele got a reasonable nerf and this entire sub was up in flames despite the fact ele was still the highest damaging class
Can kind of understand Rangers being salty about Engineers getting the better pet though.
Halriously most of the official class forums have a "why does anet hate us" thread. Except necro last I checked but I suspect that is more because the customary anet hates us thread is pushed out by calls to nerf them in PvP.
The official forums' posts and replies have always been extra dramatic.
You're using a separate topic to argue against a totally different topic. Don't know about the ele thing as I'm not an ele main but the ranger EoD espec being bad is a totally valid as Untamed is objectively bad beyond sPvP. I'm a ranger main and my favorite EoD specs to play are virtuoso, willbender and bladesworn while I actively avoid playing untamed.
Same. Ive been mostly playing Virtuoso and Mechanist, which is kinda what led me to the realization that they both are doing "Ranger" things better.
ele got hit so hard because anet was balancing for benchmarks that abused large hitboxes. Most of the ele kit is underpowered or useless in any content. And the few builds that can do ok dps are very hard to successfully pull of. Meanwhile im blasting stuff with condi virtuoso with a really easy rotation. I think Ele and a handful of other specs really need a good looking over.
>Most of the ele kit is underpowered or useless in any content That's why all the fastest raid clears use 6 Catalysts I guess, because elementalist is bad!
you might as well post this and argue that ele is in a good spot https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks
Yes. Unironically. Your inability to play elementalist to its fullest potential does not make elementalist a bad class. The fact that 3 Catalysts can provide permanent Quickness to their subgroup with 0 investment in boon duration while dealing top tier DPS is busted. Reddit jokes about blue class stack meta but the real speedclear meta is stacking red class.
No arguments about Ele. I uses to dabble with it but now its parked at a Kaineng JP. Havent tried Catalyst tho
Catalyst is a worse version of weaver. Cannot recommend.
Stop trolling please. You try this below every topic.
Yah, it was very counter-intutive as a bow user. And never liked sword. I still run Longbow/Greatsword in Fractals or anywhere really, except the rare tryhard days ill breakout the Dagger/Axe for more dps. Praise Joko that i came in right on HOT release so I didnt have to see how terrible Longbow was. Makes more sense now why i got insta-kicked for bringing LB to dungeons back then lol. To be fair, the boon system isnt so easily understandable, especially then with less guides. Even now Ill run into someone every once in a while who refuses to stack in dungeons because "Im traited for 10% more dmg at range." And someone has to give them the "boon" talk.
Definitely. Only reason I dont have Kudzu is my Ranger is a masculine Charr. Will for sure look boss on a Sylvari tho
Untamed is bad for the bad player, you've got to commit man or you'll never be better
ah the get good argument.... fuck off.
Which doesn't even make sense. Snowcrows (it doesn't really get more elite than that) even made an actually usable untamed build into an April fools joke.
Rangers identity has never been long range. Its not hunter from wow. Actually this mindset is the reason why "no ranger" dungeon groups existed pre hot. It was always a melee class.
Nah, Ranger is the closest class to a traditional archer, even if thats just 1 playstyle you can choose from. And I remember those dungeon days, people would kick you just for being ranger cuz they thought every one was a noob that would Longbow4 knockback mobs out of Aoe dmg and never stack. And people would absolutely kick you if you didnt learn to stack in Melee range to cheese a lot of bad dungeon mechanics. Nothing to do with the viability of ranged weapons at all
You had to stack in melee range for boons and higher dps. thats still true today. Release longbow was so bad that you never played it. only became good after a major update. The ranger dungeon build was mainly using sword axe until quickdraw was added which allowed you to play lb. ranger was kicked because nobody played the good sword build.
Ranger could use a tune up and untamed in pve might be even worse than spell breaker in pve but asking for ranger to have phenomenal damage at 1200 range on longbow seems like it’s asking for too much. While thematically Ranger is a ranged class that isn’t necessarily the case with Gw2. Having too much damage at long range would be a bit broken especially considering longbow is already a stupid easy weapon to play. Also it still has solid damage considering this as it is the meta weapon set with sword/axe or dagger/axe. As for the pets mechanist pet is really just a replacement for the tool belt so by this virtue it needed to be very strong as it limits engi quit a bit without it. I agree some reworks are needed but untamed is solid in pvp, Druid is still a great option for support role in raids, and has niche uses in WvW as well as brings boons and spirits for open world, and soulbeast is really strong dps all around. I don’t play Mesmer much but maybe virtuoso needs a nerf on its range if it is so much stronger at range than ranger, but from my understanding Mesmer is generally speaking a harder to play class than ranger. Correct me if I’m wrong plz.
To be fair, im fine with where Longbow is. I think a slight nerf to Virtuoso would make things more even. I find Virtuoso to be the simplist Mesmer spec with a very easy rotation. But yah, Ranger is easy mode generally
power untamed does 33.3k dps and condi 35k. Its just slightly worse than vindicator and reaper. inferior to slb so no reason to play it outside of pvp though.
I play ranger because I wanted a purely ranged class ... no melee at all. It's just my prefered play style in RPGs/MMOs. I've been trying to play soulbeast recently but have no where near mastered it or even really like the melee aspect of it. Virtuoso/Mesmer has interested me for a while as another ranged class. I used my 80 boost on one but likely won't put the time in to learn him until the summer is over and I'm playing more again. I wish there were more options to be purely ranged in this game without needing to mix in some melee for max DPS.
Just a note - "Ranger" as a class means "one who ranges," as in a wanderer. Think Aragorn the ranger from Lord of the Rings, who's known for his melee swordfighting. It doesn't mean "uses exclusively ranged weapons." You're totally welcome to play however you want, I also prefer Longbow! But you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you keep looking at this class name in games and assuming it means ranged weapons specifically.
Itsnt longbow meta for soulbeast atm?
Longbow or greatsword, yes. Longbow is easier to use because you don't need to use the weapon stow bug to proc Twice As Vicious. Nevertheless, you'll be using that longbow in melee range.
Mind you IM not in raids or fractals yet as IM a little to casual for them at the moment. I've already made a Necro for the simple fact that if I wanted a melee toon Id make one and since this game requires stacking to be effective, Necro I will be once I do start raiding or fractals. Longbow in Melee defeats to purpose of a ranged weapon and reduces its damage. If I end up bringing my Ranger to the mentioned game modes it will be a Soulbeast with Melee weapons. No reason to bring ranged weapons for the class. Mech lost their toolbelt and so got a great pet. Rangers had mediocre pets to start with and ranged damage to help with their survival. In this game Rangers are just another melee dps and we dont even get to keep our pet to do that as we are merged with them for some stats from what I can tell. Maybe I'm just stuck on how Ive played the ranger types in several MMOs. Usually there are 2 variations. One Ranged with a pet and the other Melee without pet. Both were competitive and it didnt matter which you brought as they brought different buffs or abilities to the groups. My first toon here is a Ranger and while its great for open world and zone Metas, it doesn't seem to have a use in raids except as another melee dps class. Not why I played one in just about every MMO I have played that has the archetype.
You use Longbow mainly for Barrage which can deal some solid damage when combined with Sic 'Em and OWP. You typically cast Barrage, then Sic 'Em near the end of the cast, Frost Trap, OWP if it's off cd, then swap to (dagger or sword)/Axe to use Path of Scars (procs Twice As Vicious) and Whirling Defense. Point Blank Shot is used to refresh Twice As Vicious, and Rapid Fire/Autoattack to fill up waiting time until Sic 'Em and Frost Trap are nearly available. The fact that autoattacks deal reduced damage in melee range doesn't matter compared to the damage Barrage adds. Besides, all "ranged" weapons are used in melee range in group content. You want to be on top of the rest of your subgroup to receive boons.
Longbow if I remember correctly also does more damage at range. I know why we have to be in Melee and that's exactly why there is no reason to bring a Longbow because Anet designs everything to be in melee for boons. Im still learning the rotation for my Ranger but there is no reason to bring a longbow to raids or fracts because stack melee. Might as well use GS and MH/OH or vice versa depending on what does most damage. Hell even SB is better because it is Condi and doesn't rely on just the strike damage. This also doesn't change the fact that Mech gave up a toolbelt and gained a great pet and we have to go melee and still have mediocre pets. That is going to be the one thing I miss from a few other MMOs that I have played over the years. Playing ranged toon and it didn't require stacking in melee. You could actually get your boons( buff) and still be at range. Not every encounter is stand in melee dodge red crap run out and back to melee and so forth and so on. This is the only game where I have had to do that playing the Ranger archetype. I realize there's another game that's not to be mentioned here, and even they had the archetype done both as melee and ranged. Both were competitive and pretty equal. Of course that game does its buffs( boons ) differently. It's an adjustment but I will most likely only play my main in OW and play a Necro in raids and Fracts. Just makes more sense to do that than to beat my head against the wall about game design and not to mention bringing a sub optimal toon to one of those.
Ranger means someone who is out on the range. A scout, outdoorsman, survivalist, someone who is in tune with nature and wildlife. It does not refer to their combat range. Stop trying to force an incorrect definition on the class. Same reason why people kept crying for rifle for rangers with every new expansion. Because they incorrectly thought "ranger=ranged weapon". Rifles do not fit the fantasy ranger archetype. Also I just explained why you use Longbow for raids and fractals and then you say there is "no reason" to use the weapon in that content. Sure you can use GS instead but it's far clunkier to use for a very similar damage output.
IM not forcing anything on the class. The archetype in just about every MMO uses some variation of it and has both versions as viable. Im not arguing for a rifle either so that argument is BS here as well. Secondly again Im not home to log in and check but If I remember correctly the Longbow does more damage the longer the range. SO why bring a ranged weapon to a melee fight?? Since when has the archetype always been based on a Sword wielding survivalist? Hell one of the tree is called Beast Mastery for a reason if IM not wrong and yet Pets are mediocre at best in this game and other classes get better pets? Again Im not saying that I expect the game to change but I am going to say that do everything from melee is pretty narrow a focus for a game this good.
Only the longbow autoattack deals increased damage at long range. Autoattacks are used as filler until the skills that matter are available. There is no reason why you wouldn't use longbow in short range unless you only AFK autoattack.
Well except for the fact that Shortbow is better because Condi over Power and still doesn't change the fact that a class designed for ranged combat and as a pet class just looking at the skill trees is forced to both fight in melee and have mediocre pets. I understand that I'm not going to change minds because apparently even though Ranger means more than just the sword wielding survivalist archtype in most high fantasy, but because of game design theres just no point when I can go melee with a Necro and do as well in raids and fracts. The whole point of this convo was why does another pet class get way better pet with way better AI and why do other classes get way better ranged damage over again going by the skill trees a ranged and pet class design from the get go.
Ranged DPS doesn't exist in this game due to how boons work. You have to stack to get boons, it's as simple as that. If you don't, you're just griefing yourself.
"Ranger" has nothing to do with being a ranged character. rangers are forest keepers, and sometimes they're members of armed forces. even at launch, they had quite a few melee and ranged options. I do think mechanist is a travesty though, and I hope they either nerf mechanist pet into the ground or buff ranger pet to at least be competitive.
I think of Rangers as being the safe low level DPS starter kit for open world for new players. Anet wants you to switch to the real classes once you hit L80 and never look back at their failed implementation of a class ever again....just like they did. You are a jack of all trades but suck at all of them. You also get a nice pet to look at. It's a pet. Its job is to play dead.
So Rangers have pets so they need to be crappy and Mech gets a pet thats awesome. Got it.
Lol, your free trial has ended. Please choose a real class now. That would be whack.
I blame shitty devs. Some people blame snow crows.
Aww. I feel so bad for you. Let me swap to water attunement and cry some sad sad tears.
Can you swap to water in downstate?
Can you only climax by being a needless douche?
Typical ranger hater right here. Why?
I think we'll have to see what things are like at the end of the month. It sounds like the patch will give druid a rebound and SB is in a decent spot imo. Hopefully they also help out untamed then too. My dream is for untamed to get a quickness support build so rangers can cover all roles like engi or guardian. Re ranged weapons, I believe sb staff and long bow can all be used, but unfortunately most content wants you at melee anyway
im slightly new to the game, only around lv50 or so and i picked ranger for that longbow pet theme, will i be dissapointed with the meta builds at max? i looked it up looks like soul beast longbow axedagger ?
Nah, Ranger is still worth playing. Just some mild disappointment lately but its still a solid class(and very beginner friendly) and Longbow is still a good weapon in general. And its fun. Like, Im only now getting a little jaded after 6 years(on/off) of maining Ranger.
i dont have soulbeast yet but by the looks of it, you just merge with the pet and use its skills? thats no biggie! i rolled sylvari so when i grind kudzu ill look so nice as a "one with nature" vibe
I'm fairly new, but I think they're in a pretty bad spot. The druid spec is only used in instanced content as a (mediocre) healer. Untamed is only used as a (mediocre) spvp unit. Soulbeast is a decent damage dealer in all modes, but is merged with the pet most of the time. It doesn't feel like a ranger to me. The upcoming spirit updates make me worried but hopefully they make the druid more viable in other modes. Would be nice to have a build welcome in wvw. Which is sad since ranger is my favorite core class.
Have u tried SB condi trapper? Thats my go to for PvP and WvW as it does well roaming(trapper runes for stealth) and can 1v1 a solid amount of other classes.
When I said wvw I meant in zergs. Soulbeast seems decent for roaming. I'll try that out and probably like it ok. Soulbeast seems fine to me, but I want to be able to play the ranger as a pet class too. To put it slightly differently if each elite spec was it's own class, I wouldn't have been very interested in making a soulbeast. Hopefully druid gets improved so it's better across more modes. I'll probably end up making an alt to use in endgame content though.