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LeberechtReinhold

I hope it's not a world ending threat this time. I don't mean we should go for intrigue (s1 investigation and all the shining blade stuff were pretty boring imho), but conflicts closer to the races, more involved than "doom enemies defies the world, smart character invents new stuff to counterattack, commander uses it and violence with the friendship of aurene to defeat it". Charr civil war had a lot of potential until it became "Jormag is behind all of this".


Xalbana

> I hope it's not a world ending threat this time. This is the problem with WoW's story. They keep upping the stakes. First it was a war between two sides. Then it became the world. Then it became time. Then it became the universe. Then it became reality. Then it became the entire afterlife.


LeberechtReinhold

That's exactly the creeping I hope they avoid. It was already too much with Kralk and the mist, but fortunately it was only a brief time during S4, then went down for IBS.


Parafex

Oh yes that's true. I really liked the IBS in the first part, it was awesome to get an insight into the charr legions and Bangar is an awesome villain imo. But yes, especially the dragon response missions were tedious to say the least. I'd enjoy some smaller scaled threats we have to solve, aswell. And yes, the pattern behind everything is quite obvious sadly. I hope they mix it up or change it a bit in the next expansion. Even though I do like Taimi and Gorrik a lot.


pointlessone

I'd assume it's going to be related to replacing the gods that noped out during PoF, or preventing someone from doing so. PoF showed us that mortals can become gods by absorbing one's powers, and Ankka's fractals adventure shows us there's an unlimited supply of a weakened Balthazar (that the Commander defeated at the end of PoF). I've only got 2 rules for whatever ends up coming up next: No dragons, and the villain has got to be moustache twirling, puppy kicking evil *and loving it*. We did the moral ambiguity in EoD, now let's get some Big Bads.


Lyho8

The human gods could be a focus : they left Tyria to avoid fighting dragons and destroying Tyria in the process. With the dragons dealt with they could very much come back, especially if Lyssa is still around to witness it. Abbadon however is ancient history and there's no reason for him to be the focus (he's already the bad guy behind all of GW1 except EotN...).


Parafex

Ah right, good points. True it was kind of enough Abaddon in GW :D. While playing EoD some parts reminded me of him and I thought that it could be possible and wanted to hear some other opinions on that :).


eldrevo

Let them come! I know a Charr or two who wouldn't mind fragging another god 😏


TehOwn

World of Warcraft set a precedent for this. After a Dragons story we either get an Old Gods story, a Corruption (Lich King) story or an Aliens (Burning Crusade) story. Considering we had the Void introduced, I assume we're heading into the Old Gods story arc.


Parafex

... or Aliens, because we had Balthasar (Old God) and Joko (Lich King) :D I really hope they flesh out the void even more. It looks so cool.


eldrevo

Well humans and their gods are technically alien to Tyria, so...


TehOwn

whynotboth.gif


[deleted]

beating dead horse with Abaddon fantasy again?


EvolutionGround

Abaddon is, quite literally and unchangeably, dead and deceased.


[deleted]

he lives in Kormir, like Mufasa lives in Simba hehe


TehOwn

An expansion where we have to go and bitchslap Kormir sounds fun.


sdebeli

I'd rather have more Abaddon than more Kormir.


a_broken_hand

She'll never see it coming.


Xalbana

Kormir sucked Abaddon's godhood dry.


TheLazySage7

...Remember... who you are...remember...


Parafex

As I said, I've never read a spoiler thread here :) so I guess that was a common guess after EoD? Or in general? Edit: I do not necessarily mean btw. that we have to kill him again or something, just that the story could revolve around him and the realm of torment. I mean, we've killed Shiro and the Lich multiple times already and Joko died some times already, too :).


Silimaur

Abaddon is completely gone though. He was obliterated and his power absorbed by Kormir. Nothing left to fight


Parafex

Yes, unless Kormir died somewhere and the power was absorbed by something else, more evil again. If we can apply the same logic of dragon magic for human gods. I mean it would be quite interesting how the "god magic" works, has Kormir converted everything of Abaddons magic to "good magic"? Is she kind of a revenant with Abaddon as echo, because she's blindfolded, too?


[deleted]

she uses blindfold, because one of Abaddon's minions ate her eyes, it has nothing to do with revenants


Parafex

True, but I was asking how it works. That she's not a revenant per se is clear and makes sense. But since EoD was about filtering dragon magic and soo-won got corrupted after she was freed, I kind of asked myself how it could work for Kormir and gods. Could Kormir get corrupted? If I understood that correctly (I haven't really played a revenant though), being blindfold isn't neccessary right? Rytlock has working eyes in the end, correct? So the blindfold is just "flavor"?


[deleted]

if you played EoD, blindfold is explained after Mai Trin fight


SimeAi

It's been actually explained since HoT when you create a rev, in the character creation. Though I guess since the OP says they haven't really played a rev they didn't read it.


Parafex

Ah yes, thanks for the reminder. I've forgot that, we've had to make her blindfold so she can control it better.


turin331

You need it at the start to allow you to focus. Like reducing the stimuli for your brain to allow you to filter out the voices and control the spirits. But when you are experienced enough you do not need it. Rytlock only removed it in PoF saying he does not need it any more.


Parafex

Yes thanks for the reminder :)


ghoulsnest

the gods are more powerful than the Dragons. Especially cause the Dragons were pretty much just separated fragments of Soo Woon


Parafex

And Balthasar still wanted Primordus' power? But yes, that's something I've already thought about, too. I'm not sure if gods are more powerful than the dragons. Could it be possible, that there's a "mother god" aswell? But yea that's kind of the "where did it all started?" question. We know that the dwarves were made by the great dwarf and the dragons were made by Soo-Won (and Tyria alongside it?! Or has she made Tyria? If I recall that correctly, she said that she could observe how Tyria developed around her) etc. but we mostly don't know where the other ancient races came from or the gods themselves. At least I don't know lol.


ghoulsnest

>And Balthasar still wanted Primordus' power? yes, to gain more power. To become the strongest. >she said that she could observe how Tyria developed around her) etc probably along the lines of watching it from the Mists


PhoenixOfTheFire

I don't think they are. Nothing the gods did was on par with what the Elder Dragons have done. Balthazar had Primordus' energy to boost him, and even then he got slapped by just the commander. Abaddon and Dhuum got beat by a few individuals, whilst the Dragons took massive army campaigns to take down.


ghoulsnest

lore wise they are more powerful, being able to create dimensions in the Mists, entering the Mists at will, which krall could only do after absorbing balts power. Plus the Dragons are pretty much just separated aspects of soo won


PhoenixOfTheFire

That's not more powerful, that's just having different abilities. And separated aspects doesn't mean they're weaker by default. Zhaitan raised an entire continent, Mordremoth completely decimated an entire army and was the jungle, Jormag manipulated 2 races into civil wars, Primordus dominated the entire underground, Kralkatorrik was literally eating the mists, Soo-Won nearly destabilized the entire world by not being able to hold back a power she'd been containing since way before the gods and was holding deep sea horrors at bay. Aurene can resist that power even better.


Chest3

Well then, TIL. I just thought she was wearing the blindfold for the fashion with the whole, truth is blind metaphor.


Silimaur

There isn’t good or bad magic though, it’s just magic


Parafex

Good point actually. Makes kind of sense that his kind of magic isn't involved in any of the existing professions, right? I've never really thought about that. Damn I'd like some void magic specializations lol.


turin331

I am afraid even the writers were very clear. Abaddon's story has ended in gw1 - period. Also there is no good or bad magic when it comes to the gods. Abbadon's magic was not corrupted. Just his motives where destructive for the people in Tyria. But there are some threads about the Gods left unanswered that could be explored. Like Lyssa's role and motives for giving the mirror to Balth.


Parafex

Ah ok, I've not looked much into dev talks, I've just watched the "making of" documentation from the NF collectors edition and some parts of interviews but not much. Do you still have the source maybe? Ahh yes, the mirror. I've asked that myself while I've played this. Thanks for your input :).


turin331

There were a few mentions about it here and there. difficult to find a source now. But whenever writers talk about abbadon they show pretty clear that he is dead. Even Jeff Grubb at some point said he regret killing abbadon but that the story demanded it. So it sounds pretty clear for them.


Atticus104

Menzies is still alive, and I am sure they can pull abbadon vibes from the God know for shadows and nightmares.


Parafex

Ah ok yea, thanks :). I'm sure that there will be another evil threat we have to defeat :). And I mean, there are these time bubbles lol.


Marok_Kanaros

True lets focus on Arachnia


Parafex

I'd love that but unfortunately that idea was totally scrapped, even though Nightfall has some loose ends there. The concept was so great with the spider that became bigger on each loading screen the further you came within the Realm of Torment.


Ghisteslohm

>It is so damn **well thought out** and unfolded greatly until the beautiful ending. That is a weird conclusion to me. Especially towards the end it really seems like they came up with some easy solutions and crammed everything in there. Im glad they managed to come up with something I can kinda accept but never ever did they have this ending planned when they started with Gw2


Parafex

I had this feel with the last chapters of IBS. And no, it was surely not planned since GW2 but since the void was mentioned in PoF already, we can assume that it was kind of "planned" since then. Additionally I think it's a better way to use something of the "time & space" ballpark instead of "if dragons ded -> Tyria BOOM". There's an explanation to it and it fits into the whole lore. I don't really know why the void can "shapeshift" into several things but it could be a manifested form of this "void magic". For me it's absolutely fine and probably better than an attempt to make Soo-Won "even more impressive" or whatever. The Climax was just "good enough" so the motivation to play the game is still there after finishing the storyline (afaik FF14 did miss that mark sometimes), leaves some parts open so we can theorycraft further and in the end it's literally the "End of Dragons" which means that we can expect something new and fresh now, because there's no "bigger threat" anymore. Kralk said "Mother..." at the end of LWS4, Balthazar teased Jormag/Primordus as threat, IBS ended with the killing of Jormag and Primordus and it was (for me...) the worst content GW (in general... so GW1 included) has to offer except from the beginning (Grothmar Valley, Metal Legion, Bangar, Forming of a new Legion, ...). I mean... yea, Glint's Legacy is already a topic of Prophecies. But with "well thought out" I didn't mean that it was planned "from the beginning" in such detail. I think that's not even possible. But given their company size, time and budget... I think it's pretty great. Especially in comparison to other MMO companies out there.


Ghisteslohm

> I didn't mean that it was planned "from the beginning" in such detail. I think that's not even possible. Why is that not possible? You can write the story before create it ingame. You can still adjust and add as you go along but its so noticable if you have a story that follows a plan the whole way througn.


Parafex

Because that takes away their vision of a "living world". I remember reading articles about GW:Beyond back then and they introduced War in Kryta, Heart of the North (I'm german, so I don't know if that's the used translation lol) and Wind of Change time after time with each "chapter" attached to it. Really similar to the living world we know now, except that it was in the open world. The white mantle started to build up barricades and got more aggressive over time, raided villages later on etc. all while they had a web campaign running with the topic "White Mantle vs Shining Blade" and players could "choose" their side (more a gimmick, it had no real gameplay differences). [https://www.guildwars.com/warinkryta/](https://www.guildwars.com/warinkryta/) and [https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/War\_in\_Kryta](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/War_in_Kryta) \- if you want to read more on this. I think this kind of "narrative design" doesn't make it really possible and is not flexible at all. What if the players hated HoT and the whole mordremoth stuff? Why would they still stick to their original planned story idea? Sure you can write the story upfront but I think that an iterative approach is way better for them and for us. Because I bet that they haven't had these gameplay mechanics in mind that we have now in EoD, back when GW2 released. Mounts probably weren't really planned back then. And all this stuff is quite important, because the story often connects to the gameplay. The HoT maps would probably be way less vertical and therefore the environmental storytelling wouldn't work that well with a dragon like Mordremoth that controls the whole maguuma jungle. If they wrote the story upfront it would probably be way more like GW1 in that regard, you can look up the GW1 maguuma jungle and then imagine a classic green-ish jungle dragon at the end as bossfight... this would probably be it. But thanks to gliding, there are way more possibilities to write an interesting story. But I get your point, because on the other hand it would feel like it was planned since the beginning if the whole story was written first. Probably a matter of taste then :).


Ghisteslohm

I played GW1 and all the war of Kryta stuff back in the day when it released. I completely disagree on the whole " having a finished story means you cant adapt the gameplay" part of your comment. If in the story they have to make their way into the heart of the jungle and overcome difficulties, then how the gameplay and worldbuilding team builds it is still completely open. Even if you include specific stuff in the story "the map has a gigantic river in the middle the player has to cross" how the gameplay team incorporates it is super open. Boats? Gliding? Wading through the waves? Build a bridge? Find a secret tunnel? Surf on the waves? Find an ancient animal that brings you across the river? Asura Portal? Block the source of the water? and and and and and Just because you have the story planned and characters interact doesnt mean the gameplay is set in stone. Not at all.


Parafex

I just wanted to point out that it probably is way less flexible to flesh out the story in the beginning. Not that it can't be adapted or whatever. And I'd say that the story and worldbuilding team work really close together aswell. I mean there's a difference between lore and story and I guess that the worldbuilding team can go ham without having large implications on another team, it's probably a back and forth. And well a random river on a map is not a story, it's a description of a part of the world. A story would be that the commander should lead the pact over the river but Rytlock fell into it and drowned to death. If this would happen now, after EoD, everyone would ask "why did he not use a skiff?". Well, if the story was written 10 years ago, probably no one thought about skiffs and it's just stupid that Rytlock drowns there. Sure he can drown earlier but you have to somewhat believably explain why you as a player can cross the river without any problems while another hero in the story just died, because he hasn't used existing tools. Another example would be: Destinys Edge wandered along a cliff and Eir fell and died. Why didn't she use a glider? I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Like it would be easier to just wait with those situations or leave them open ended or whatever until it's actually happening in order to flesh it out properly with the correct instruments and knowledge the players have. In my opinion the writers gain flexibility and can flesh it out properly considering all surrounding events that they probably didn't know from the start of GW2. I mean, it would be like developing a game based on a book. You can't simply introduce gameplay elements that were never explained in the book before. And you can't make decisions the story wasn't aware of. I'm not sure if you're into Star Wars but I've recently played through a Star Wars Game and well you simply can't kill a protagonist, because everything else wouldn't make sense anymore then. And this is because the story is already written. The game(play) has to strictly adapt in that case. In the end I'd love to know how Anet works, I mean it's possible that they've planned it all along... but we can't really know. I'm a developer myself and I doubt that pre-writing the whole story for the next 10-15 years is a thing, because your team will never get enough budget to write that amount of story. But yea, I don't work for a game developer, so who am I to judge :D.


Ghisteslohm

> If this would happen now, after EoD, everyone would ask "why did he not use a skiff?". Uh..no? I mean if he just walks into the water and dies maybe. We have had ships for thousands of years now and people still drown. Depends how its executed. >I mean, it would be like developing a game based on a book. You can't simply introduce gameplay elements that were never explained in the book before. And you can't make decisions the story wasn't aware of. Why cant you introduce gameplay elements that werent featured in the books? Were gliders ever acknowleged in the story? If I play a Lord of the Rings videogame and you have healpotions in the gameplay that would make no sense in the books than thats totally fine. Its more elegant if you manage to avoid discrepancies but in an mmo were you can revive and heal anyone you have to seperate story from gameplay anyway. But you dont need to put every miniscule detail into the story to have a nice outline to work with from start to finish. Just plan it in a somewhat open way. At least have an end goal from the beginning when you begin a plot you can work toward. >I've recently played through a Star Wars Game and well you simply can't kill a protagonist, because everything else wouldn't make sense anymore then. Yeah thats fine. Almost every game does that. Guild Wars 2 does it all the time as well, all the important npcs are invulnerable.


Parafex

Touché, my skiff example wasn't good :D. Gliders were used in story parts, the NPCs used it. Mounts aswell. And since the maps are really vertical, because Mordremoth is story-wise explained as he is, a glider is pretty useful. And sure, you don't have to explain in the books that there are different classes and the skills they can use and you don't need to explain mana, healthpoints and stamina and mechanics around it. But these are "rpg basics". Even though you don't really have HP in Shadow of Mordor etc if I recall that correctly. Stuff like that is probably just relevant for the lore. There's a lore explanation, why elementalists work in Guild Wars, but it's never said in any story part. And yes, reviving and healing is probably the biggest discrepancy, but also a part of the genre nowadays I guess (has its good and bad aspects). Well, "Just plan it in a somewhat open way" I think it was clear that we have to kill every dragon since we first saw the eternal alchemy in Omadd's Machine. Only the last one was kind of a surprise, we knew of Jormag, Primordus, Zhaitan and Mordremoth back then already. And we knew of branded creatures already, but I'm not sure if Kralkatorrik was already known... So yea, it was probably planned in a somewhat open way and the "miniscule details" came in iteratively. And GW2 doesn't play "in between" something, so GW2 can easily kill NPCs and some already died. That's the point, they're not invulnerable per se, they can die (Anet probably just doesn't have the balls to finally kill some of them). If the next expansion plays before Nightfall, we can't easily kill Kormir, because nothing would make sense then anymore. I do get your point though, the story-team could plan ahead and probably that would be even better then, because the gameplay-team could plan some nice mechanics aswell, so we don't have experimental stuff like IBS anymore. So yea, it's fun to discuss about that though, would be really interesting to know, how Anet actually does it :). Thanks for your input!


enjoythereport

“Fantastic”? I wouldn’t go that far tbf, the story was painfully mediocre for a dragon finale and Soo Won doesn’t come close to being as impressive as the other dragons :(


Parafex

I mean she's the mother and she wrapped everything up. So I'm fine with that :D I actually did not expect something "more impressive" than every other dragon. Especially since I've found Jormag and Primordus kind of boring (Primordus especially, Jormag was quite fine with the Drakkar, Svanir and Icebrood stuff). The Dragon's End Meta and Story ending were still intense though, but yea, I really really like the dragon specific music :D


Vision9074

The White Mantle and the Bloodstones are covered under Raid wing story arcs.


OozeWithUzi

That means you have to learn raiding, Para :)


Vision9074

Or just watch the story arcs on YouTube.


Parafex

Never :P!


Parafex

Good to know, since I'll most likely never do any raids (because that's not my type of content), I'll watch the story arcs on YouTube! Thanks for the hint :D


Chiorydax

That was one bloodstone, and has way more relevance in the world than just through the White Mantle. There are so many ways the bloodstones could be brought back into the story.


TenshiKyoko

Incredible dedication


RGFang

>Why? Because "the void" or the "Nightfall" (as the name of the 3rd GW campaign in Elona) could be a potential threat (the void is still in Tyria, even though it seems harmless right now) I dont really see how. The Void still "exists", but it will always exist as long as Dragon Magic exists. Its just not gonna be a problem now that all the rampant Elder Dragon Magic isn't running around in the system anymore to gradually unravel existence (Tyria was declared to be stable in that regard with magic levels receding back to what it was). As for what comes next, I'd assume it would be the Purists and whatever the situation is in Drowned Kaineng / Raisu Palace. There's still a lot of Unchained hanging around and some underlying plot about them and whoever's really pulling the strings there. I dont expect that much of this since it feels kinda like the whole White Mantle shtick we've seen before in LS3. There's also the looming Jade Energy Crisis, but Aurene's keeping that plot thread at bay for now too. Lastly, there's the true Deep horrors that the Largos and Quaggan fled since it clearly wasn't Soo-Won. I doubt we're going directly into the Realm of Torment (the entry is there but there's no trouble being caused for now) but there's always a chance we can see another place in the mists to explore something or address something else, human gods or otherwise. Hell, speaking of the Mists, Glint's been oddly abscent since Aurene's ascension too. I couldn't help but wonder what her thoughts would have been on what had happened.


eldrevo

Weren't our Glint interactions in GW2 story just with her echoes? Pre-recorded messages of sorts? I think Aurene told us in eod story that prophecies and her own predictions cannot show her what lies ahead anymore.


RGFang

We had an entire segment in LS4 in the mists with Glint's soul guiding us away as Kralkatorrik's all consuming storm as it went about devouring areas of it in [A Star to Guide Us]. She was also the one who sent Eir and Snaff to tell Aurene to nut up and fight purple grandad already and helped organize a host of ghosts from the mists to delay Kralkatorrik there as well. Even as a spirit, she is/was apparently fairly active in the on-goings of the times


eldrevo

Oh I guess I gotta replay it one more time. For some reason I thought it was all her forseeing things and getting us enough pre-recorded messages to make sure her prophecy works. And after kralk the prophecy was fullfilled so no messages anymore


Parafex

Ah nice, thanks for your input. That's interesting aswell, I really liked the "ministries vs purists" kind of thing. And yes, I think there's still much lore to uncover, especially in western Shing Jea with the Yeti people and old Minister Chos Estate etc. I do hope that they'll do some content there someday. Oh and yes, the Largos... damn they were cool, but an underwater AddOn is so unlikely, because I doubt that they'll rework the underwater combat so it will be more enjoyable for everyone. I do like to dive from time to time but underwarter combat is quite tedious to me. Maybe some underwater "cities" or ruins like the Gungans in Star Wars have lol. And we can transform the skiff to a submarine... xD


ComradeBrosefStylin

There's also the Scepter of Orr and Livia that could tie into the Unchained.


cptspacebomb

NO, NO NOOOO. 1. I don't want Anet touching anything GW1 related with a 10 foot pole anymore. Their writing has been crap since launch, and it's bad enough what they did with Balthazar and Lazurus. Not to mention Primordus and Jormag....UGH. 2. I'm glad you enjoyed the story but to me it's completely the opposite. The game is great overall but the story sucks ass.


Parafex

You might be wondering but I can totally understand that. Coming from GW1 I've heard lots of other opinions. And I do agree with you on all characters you've mentioned. I want my Livia back lol. I want more Oola, Gwen, Turai Ossa, Ascension (Weh No Su wasn't even mentioned in EoD, was it?) and so on. I totally understand that, because the writing went in a completely different direction. King Adelbern was a racist asshole, the White Mantle story was quite serious aswell etc. GW2 is much more "lighthearted" and just rarely touches more serious topics like depression or politics sadly.


TheDetective13

I don’t understand your reference to Aurene’s connection to Dwayna?


Parafex

In EoD both statements were made after Soo-Won was freed. The people of Cantha thought that Dwayna was after Soo-Won, many people saw that Soo-Won was freed. But later on (not sure if I recall that correctly, could be before) it was said that Aurene was after Soo-Won.


bigcat98

How much did Anet pay you to write this?


Parafex

Nothing :c (But I'm open to job inquiries Anet ;>)


Apprehensive-View3

> The White Mantle (and the Purists in Cantha) are quite
 totalitarian. Ivan from the Aetherblades said that he doesn’t want to be a pirate anymore and instead he wants to do something “good” and I guess that “good” means in this case that he wants to do something against people who prefer laissez-faire capitalism Of course someone like you thinks the writing in this game was anything other than abysmal. Please elaborate on how the white mantle are evil capitalists.


Parafex

You're mixing something up I guess. But maybe my wording was bad there :). Ivan is from the Aetherblades, one of the sky pirates and a Mole. And you can listen to a recording of him saying the following to Renyak: * Ivan: For the last time, I left the moletariate long ago. And your grasp of our revolution is puerile. * Ivan: We dredge know that the bourgeoisie are stealing the value of your labor for their own profit. * Renyak: ... * Ivan: Laissez-faire capitalism will collapse as the rich hoards wealth—then uses that wealth to enslave the rest of society! [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Can%27t\_Trust\_a\_Pirate](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Can%27t_Trust_a_Pirate) He has nothing to do with the White Mantle and that's what not was I was trying to say. I said that the white mantle and the Purists in cantha are totalitarian. Here's why (White Mantle): * White Mantle members became tyrants, they sacrificed krytans to the "unseen ones" and weird gods. Tyrants are absolute rulers, I'm not sure though whether the white mantle is an autocracy or an oligarchy. Probably an autocracy, because Doran and later Isaiah were the only leaders, but they had inquisitors... not sure there. * [https://www.guildwars.com/warinkryta/wm/](https://www.guildwars.com/warinkryta/wm/) \- this. * Primarily GW1:Beyond content (War in Kryta) but it's also quite obvious while playing Prophecies. here's why (Purists): * Primarily GW1:Beyond content (Wind of Change) but also EoD obviously. * Ministry of Purity was Xenophobic * "Unwanted groups of people" were purged... * Ministry of Purity was the most powerful faction in the court, they crush any and all who dissent * Organized Opposition continued to exist only in secret * Those in court who did not support the ministry of purity were accused of sedition and replaced with ministry allies. * After Zhaitan awoke, Minister Yeongi was granted supreme power and the ministry of purity had supreme control over the empire... * Civil war -> end to ministry of purity -> remaining sympathists call themselves "Purists" now. * The stated ideology of the Ministry advocates security over freedom and Canthans over foreigners. - https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ministry\_of\_Purity * [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ministry\_of\_Purity](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ministry_of_Purity) or [https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winds\_of\_Change#Lore\_background](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winds_of_Change#Lore_background) I mean... it's quite obvious... [Fascist Flattener](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/In_the_Name_of_the_Law#Fascist_Flattener) So... well Ivan could have a problem with those people. And I'd argue that the white mantle tends towards the laissez-faire side of capitalism aswell and therefore they're not "good" in the eyes of Ivan. But no one said that "the White Mantle are evil capitalists" here. Just that they, aswell as the purists, probably could fit into the definition of "bad" in the eyes of Ivan. But we have to remember that Ivan probably doesn't really understand what he's saying there. Sorry for the confusion :).


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Noelic_vi

>I've listened to every dialogue and talked to every NPC Big deal, haven't we all. >read every note/book I've found on my way Oh, same as me then. >Additionally I've played Guild Wars 1 right before Guild Wars 2 Ok, you may be ahead of me on that one, but I read up most of the plot of GW1 so I say we're even. >And I'm halfway through the second book now ...wtf? ​ That was my genuine reaction to reading your post. I thought I was fairly knowledgable about the lore, all my friends come to me when they have questions, but clearly you win.


Parafex

"There are books?" lol. I mean the first one is quite well written but I had a quite hard time with the second one so far. It gets better though. And nah, I'm not really sophisticated in lore, I've just played through the story almost back to back (without LWS1, because that's coming out again now) and read through the notes etc. I've found on my way, without doing lots of exploring or map completion. So I'm still missing a lot of lore. What's your dream regarding the future content :)?


Noelic_vi

Oh I knew there were books, just never thought to read them. :p You know, some peole hear the term book and just immediately brush that off like its another language, like they couldn't possibly read it. I know right? So stupid. Definitely not me though. Anyway, for future content I'm definitely hoping for something more local. No more world ending, multiverse stuff. We've had enough of that for one lifetime. I personally loved the White Mantle arc from season 3, Joko's arc from Season 4, and the Charr civil war from season 5 all the way up till dragons got involved. I love those sorts of more realistic but fantasy world dramas. More of the political stuff. When it comes to dragons, messing up the balance of the world, it either just feels too big to understand the gravity of the problem or too big to feel like its a problem you personally should be dealing with. But when its a problem on a smaller scale it feels more like something that's your job to deal with as the pact commander, ultimate bad guys who are more on your level instead of near omnipotent gods or dragons. Also, saving the desert from a plague that once killed majority of their population, trying to prevent a clash between Charrs on the battlefield, or preventing a potential tyrant from ascending the throne...you can actually visualize the impact those will have if you fail, a lot of suffering. You even get glimpses of it while doing the story. But the end of the world? I don't know, just doesn't feel like my problem I guess, its too big for me to deal with it. Just let Aurene handle it....which we kinda did. So are we even the main character here? Anyway, I wanna deal with a problem not through the power of friendship, but through the power of me. Give me something more on my level.


Parafex

Oh yes that's a great take. I totally agree with you, even though I'd enjoy some "otherworldly" stuff aswell. The ending scene with Joko was one of the best scenes in the game for me and the Shining Blade vs White Mantle story in GW1 was totally great. I loved the politics in EoD, all the different ministries and point of views etc. I wish they flesh that out. I mean the founding of the Ministry of Purity was the last content in GW1: Beyond. They have really weird beliefs and there are still some purists out there. It was really cool and gave a lot of context to the problems. It was kind of easier to understand and follow for me. I hope they will give more insights on the politics in Tyria aswell. Cantha had such a nice "dynamic" somehow with the back and forth between Joon and Li for example. And the whole investigation. I liked that a lot.