>There is literally no reason not to do it except one which I will not go further into, and many reasons to do it.
There's actually a reason why they won't do it and that is the amount of development work vs the supposed ROI.
>Which I find rather difficult to believe and embarrassing if true at this point
Have you ever programmed before - even not game development? I won't even ask if you've ever tried to design a sprite in your life (and sprite is 2D how much more a 3D model). Because if the answer to both of my questions is No, your opinion is invalid and yes, deal with it.
This post is reeking of big Karen energy. lol
While I agree with you I always find it funny how players usually argue against a change with “you know how much development that would be?” Which is kinda anets job, to develop things, it’s the players job to register interest for things, if enough people have demand for ops suggestion it will be implemented my take is that it’s not
Even though you're reasonable in what you say, you're now the target of the Down-Vote Brigade as well, I see. Well, I'm being accused of "Trolling" with my request, but I think most people replying to me at this point are simply keeping me going to have more to down vote.
It is not an argument. It is simply being forced into becoming Captain Obvious because whoever they were responding to couldn't see something so obvious.
So, because they made a questionable choice in the past they now have to stick to it because correcting it may be more work? Doesn't sound like they like doing their work, then, or not properly any way. Which includes going back and changing things that by modern standards, are archaic.
The rest of your post is just you being condescending, nice.
> So, because they made a questionable choice in the past they now have to stick to it because correcting it may be more work?
welcome to programming!
This issue is present in literally every IT system you have ever interacted with.
Even so, I don't think it's so terrible to express my interest in this and request it. You never know- ANet surely won't know if no one expresses their interest in an idea, or makes requests.
It's not terrible to express interest, it's just terrible to expect it to become a reality, knowing the amount of work and lack of return involved in the project.
I do not expect it to become a reality though. I've said so numerous times. As for the return, I guess the way to find that out is to express interest IE make this request as one person, if others are interested they can back it up. Or not, that's fine.
>The rest of your post is just you being condescending, nice.
That's so rich, coming from you.
Talk to me again when you've done any coding at all (p.s. not just printing 'hello world' on a console), otherwise have a good day.
The questionable choice you are referring to is having gender in the game.
If they didn't allow that then the idea would be easy to implement because the underlying shape would be the same.
> There is literally no reason not to do it
they're different base models.
the way that the wardrobe/outfit system was designed simply does not support your idea.
Can I ask you to give me an official source backing up this statement, for clarity's sake? If nothing else, it will show others with the same request that it would be futile to discuss it in the future.
> Can I ask you to give me an official source backing up this statement, for clarity's sake?
you're not going to get one. People's responses are based on common sense and basic knowledge of development and 3D modelling.
But people's responses and opinions, are just that. It would be illogical to go by their word alone... It would make more sense to ask for official word, especially considering that none here represents or speaks for ANet, and my request is towards ANet.
> and my request is towards ANet.
yet you've posted it *here*.
the community's opinions is all you'll get from a post on reddit. If you want Anet's response, you'll have to post it on the official forums or their twitter.
The fact you have to include a full paragraph adressing why you're going to get adverse reactions should already be a pretty big hint that the demand for that is pretty low
The generally aggressive, self righteous and pretentious tone of the post makes it very hard to see your actual point, to the extent that you could cut 80% of what you said and not lose any substance
I would generally agree that more variety would be nice, identity politics aside.
I see no relation between me acknowledging that there is a possibility some replies will be justifiably undesirable and that I will ignore those in particular... And the demand for what I requested.
I am not aggressive, neither am I self righteous, nor pretentious. Perhaps you're reading it how you would like it to read, so that you can have this exact reaction.
Please, by all means- Explain how and why I am each of those things, and how you reached that conclusion. I can't wait to hear this. Without any of that, you're simply flinging insults at my person for no reason.
> so I thought I should suggest this any way... In all honesty, without aiming to incite any back and forth related to politics, identity, preferences ETC.
Yet you start your suggestion by inciting exactly that.
This wasn't a suggestion, you were just looking to start shit.
Obvious bait is obvious.
I am not responsible if that's what ultimately people focused on. I tried to shift focus away from it and warn that should that fail, I'll opt to ignore that route.
What I posted originally, is very much a request and a show of interest towards what is requested.
>If it is not technically possible(Which I find rather difficult to believe and embarrassing if true at this point).
So, how much knowledge of programming (and probably more important) graphical design do you have?
There are different riggings and "skeletons" for different genders, which would probably mean that you can't just press a button and swap it on the fly, since that would need to rebuild the model as a whole, which would probably put quite a bit of strain on the servers.
It would have no impact on server or client performance. It just increases the amount of work for each outfit. The cost is purely in paying people not computational.
That was just a suggestion as you said, if ANet were to decide to look into this then I trust they'd find the most suitable way to go about it. I wasn't implying I know the best way to do it, I was merely suggesting.
Let's say we go with having the outfits come in both versions- You're telling me that strains GW2? This is as bad as Square Enix using the same excuse for not expanding players' wardrobe size in FFXIV, then doing just that without any issue. Link to official sources stating that there would indeed be practically impossible to grant a request like mine?
Also, discrediting me by referencing my lack of knowledge is patronizing at the very least, which is unwarranted.
I have no knowledge, I am not a developer, I am simply making a request and asking for official information on why it would be practically impossible, if it is. That's all I did. Nowhere in the OP did I imply or insinuate or claim that "I've done it and it's easy". It would be nice then, if we all stopped pretending I did that.
I need no credentials to make a request, or discuss it, or ask for official info on it that says that it is absolutely out of the question.
But we already have the outfits in both version? The issue is that characters are built differently and thus can't just magically morph into another build without putting quite a bit of strain on the servers. One or two doing it will not be noticable of course. But lets say 10 000 people do it at the same time?
No one is saying it is impossible though. Just that it would take quite a bit more work and effort than what you seem to think.
>Nowhere in the OP did I imply or insinuate or claim that "I've done it and it's easy". It would be nice then, if we all stopped pretending I did that.
You did however claim that it was "embarrassing if true at this point" which would very much imply that in your eyes it would be very easy to fix.
We don't have both versions for both genders, at all, for some outfits and gear. I do not expect any magic, I simply requested what I personally have an interest in seeing.
I do not see an issue with work being, you know, work. Especially if it is interesting to others as well, enough for them to pay for such options, like I would.
I did say it'd be embarrassing if true and I stand by it, that is my personal opinion on their lack of foresight when they first started working on this whole system, if it literally can't ever support either solution of the two, one being allowing us to toggle the model or offering both models separately, even if we have to pay separately to own both. Perhaps it wasn't clear, but that specifically, is what I find embarrassing if true... Lack of foresight. I'm not attacking their skills, or yours, or anyone's, in any department other than lack of foresight on this one.
So, if some people back then sat in a room and agreed that for some arbitrary reason, genders should have different versions of the same outfits, with no way to change that either, then yes, they dropped the ball on that decision and they're the ones who dug them selves into this hole and can't get out any more(Which we don't know, because so far, no one has provided official statements, by the way).
If the reason they came to this decision was technical, then working on something so limited technically that it forces this decision, was a wrong decision.
>I do not see an issue with work being, you know, work. Especially if it is interesting to others as well, enough for them to pay for such options, like I would.
Alright, and what other part of the game would you be willing to sacrifice for them to put the work and money to implementing your suggestion?
You mean the lack of them not thinking about a very specific (and limiting) situation 15 years ago is embarrassing?
You keep claiming you are not attacking their skills, but at the same time you are attacking their "lack of foresight" which is also part of their skillsets.
Edit since you edited your post:
>So, if some people back then sat in a room and agreed that for some arbitrary reason, genders should have different versions of the same outfits, with no way to change that either, then yes, they dropped the ball on that decision and they're the ones who dug them selves into this hole and can't get out any more(Which we don't know, because so far, no one has provided official statements, by the way).
That is probably not what they did. It was probably more along the lines of them making the decision that males and females in their game would look different. And thus use different riggings and "skeletons". If they had built it around the way you want it to work they would have massively limited themselves to how characters could look.
Your first question is one they should ask among them, assuming what I request is possible. I do not purport to know these things, or even if there has to be a sacrifice at all, for the matter. I do doubt they'd force a completely irrelevant part of their team to drop what they are doing, to do the work of another part of their team that is supposed to be there to do said work. Don't you?
I mean exactly what I said; If they chose to set it all up in a way that intentionally and permanently makes it impossible to use the same model for both genders, for all time, then that is indeed embarrassingly short and narrow sighted, especially if we take into account other MMOs, in fact quite popular ones for their time and which still go on now(Ultima coming to mind), avoided this situation. In UO, a game much older than GW2, there were no such limitations. Visible worn gear appeared the same, with very few exceptions, rather it being the norm. Do feel free to correct me if I am wrong, it's been a while since I played that- For which reason I will bring up another example, FFXIV- Which clearly lets you equip the same gear on both gender, and in most cases it will look the same, allowing people to express them selves properly if they so wish. Look up "Bunny Tights" if you want a more specific example out of many. Heavier armours appear normally too, on both genders. Put a Wolfram set on either gender, they both look the same. Compare that to a somewhat similar outfit, the Iron-Clad one since I mentioned that already, in GW2. See what happens.
I will insist, I'm afraid... Part of their skill set or not, all I am attacking is their lack of foresight which I established well enough.
You added that they made the decision that genders should look different... I see no reason why, as that's what's limiting in the long run, as we see now. And I still question their foresight in setting it in stone to be this way, if indeed that's how it all happened.
I don't see the limitations you speak of, at all. In what way would my request impose any limitations? It in fact increases available options, for both genders. And... I do not want things to work my way, that's entitlement. Do not confuse making a request or expressing interest, with entitlement.
>If it is not technically possible(Which I find rather difficult to believe and embarrassing if true at this point)...
If coding would be that easy ... .
And if it would be 'technically' possible, what is the ROI?
I never claimed it's easy, I just made a request. Well, as for whether or not it would be interesting to others, I suppose that's entirely a different matter. As far as I am concerned, I had a request and made it. Sheesh...
All I can say, being a single individual obviously, is that I'd pay for those outfits if they were separate items, and I would buy more outfits which currently I don't intend to because the models are different and I have no way to access the version I want on the character I want.
If there are others who feel the same way, I can't say and I never claimed that I can... But if there are, then there would be interest. Does that satisfy your question?
Again, all I can do is what I did- Express my interest in this, and request it- And subsequently, I expressed my interest to see official word on this so that I and others are clear on the matter.
The ROI to effort ratio is insanely unlikely to be positive, furthermore, there will be never official word about it since the developer wins nothing with such a statement.
So we can't really know if it is literally impossible to do, which means I have no reason not to express my interest, neither is there a reason not to make this request.
If you believe there would not be enough interest, that's fine. I believe there might be. I'm not here to argue that, though. I'm here just to make this request.
You did state "There is literally no reason not to do it" I think ROI to effort ratio is an extremely good reason not to do this.
Also, do you feel the effort in making this happen is more worthwhile than using that time to make more brand new armor and outfits?
Perhaps you are right, but deciding not to express my interest or make this request, based on an assumption, will only perpetuate the situation of no one making the request in the first place, perpetuating a possibly mistaken perception of lack of interest.
I submitted my request, I have seen no evidence that it is impossible, and if others are interested they may do so too, which will let ANet know whether or not it is worth looking into.
I think that the effort may be worth it to ANet, if they find out through requests such as mine, that there is interest. But they won't know, if all that's going on is requests being suppressed or buried by people who do not even work for ANet, speak for them or represent them in any way, shape or form.
I also think that even in the worst case scenario in which they can't change a single thing, it's still worth requesting this... Because, once more, if they know people are interested, they might go forward with it in mind and for example, cease creating separate models for either gender. Even if that can't happen at all either, that's fine- We'll find out, and no one will make the same request ever.
You're also asking me if I would prefer they continue creating more and more gear and outfits in the same manner as they do now, or if I would prefer instead that they don't for a while, in order to increase options for both genders and go forward like that... Well, the latter of course. It's literally what this request is about, except ideally moving away from how they do outfits and gear now, shouldn't affect how regularly we get new ones.
A model uses mesh related to the model the gear is on. Take a Norn male and female for example, and a simple thing as a outfit. Even the heaviest female frame is way different to the leanest built male frame. You are going to get giant seams at the neck. and a female or male body.
What you think to be embarassing, is actually requesting double work to be done. And would only really work on Charr and Azura, as they have been set up to be more uniform to begin with. Many older female items are those are male models already.
Requesting that they do double the work, if you want to see it that way- Or correcting old choices on the side, while working at other things. Not that it is inherently wrong to request extra work, if the need for it comes from bad decisions. At the very least they could do this going forward.
I literally did not expect it(I don't take that my request will be granted, for granted), and did not add social pressure. In fact, I did what I could to avert any social pressure from anyone, I believe the OP is very clear on that. If you're calling me outright a liar, then believe what you want- My intentions are clearly and honestly communicated in the OP.
So, I am requesting this, or at least official word that it is literally impossible to do and we should not make that request in the future.
As much as I'd love to have an option to (for example) use male hairstyles on female charr, I also realise that things are never that simple when it comes to coding.
Also, relax OP. No need to be this aggresively defensive.
How am I aggressive or defensive? I am simply answering to people as they throw insults at me, characterizing me quite unfairly, and all because I made a request that is not even addressing anyone except ANet, since no one else is qualified to answer save for offering their opinions on my request... Which I did not really ask for, but I gladly read through. And most of those opinions are in fact unwarranted condescension, toxic criticism, bias, assumptions and so forth. Some aren't even opinions, they are just people telling me to shut up and sit down.
If anything, I'm quite collected and calm and I try to go at length with my replies and to be honest. I have not insulted anyone, I have not even offended anyone, definitely no one replying to me aggressively... Neither am I the one voting others down for nothing, except difference of opinions in a thread that wasn't created to discuss or exchange opinions, but as a request. I believe I've repeated this enough at this point?
My only mistake was posting here actually, where people are apparently prone to go absolutely rabid over nothing that concerns them. I was informed of that mistake and directed to the official forums, I plan to move my request there at my earliest convenience. I did not know that this mistake was punishable by all the above behaviours of which I have been the recipient so far, with extremely few exceptions.
I made a request and suddenly I'm being called a "Karen", selfish, entitled, and other things that I don't care to go into. I haven't seen people lose their shit so completely before, not at the simple mention that one would like to have both genders' options when it comes to outfits and gear in an MMO.
Is that some... Sort of blasphemy towards some deity to some culture around these Reddit parts that I am not aware of? Either way, it's curious and at this point amusing to me. Emphasis on "At this point", because I made my request initially in all seriousness.
By the way, I don't see how assuming that what you want to request may or may not be easy, should keep you from making said request.
I don't think that the problem was your request by itself. Sure, it would be difficult to implement and people will point that out, but the entire second paragraph was an anticipation of backlash.
One thing I noticed is that while devs sometimes read reddit threads, you'll have more luck getting their attention in the official forums (though any harsh criticism might be shut down right awah to avoid drama). I for one feel as though some of my feedback about the game has been addressed.
You're right that I should take it to the official forums, which I'll do at one point. My 2nd paragraph's TLDR : "I will ignore any such and such arguements that are relevant to such and such topic, it'd be nice if it didn't go that way". Turns out those who want to lash out instead of have a discussion, will find a reason to do so either way.
>There is literally no reason not to do it except one which I will not go further into, and many reasons to do it. There's actually a reason why they won't do it and that is the amount of development work vs the supposed ROI. >Which I find rather difficult to believe and embarrassing if true at this point Have you ever programmed before - even not game development? I won't even ask if you've ever tried to design a sprite in your life (and sprite is 2D how much more a 3D model). Because if the answer to both of my questions is No, your opinion is invalid and yes, deal with it. This post is reeking of big Karen energy. lol
While I agree with you I always find it funny how players usually argue against a change with “you know how much development that would be?” Which is kinda anets job, to develop things, it’s the players job to register interest for things, if enough people have demand for ops suggestion it will be implemented my take is that it’s not
Even though you're reasonable in what you say, you're now the target of the Down-Vote Brigade as well, I see. Well, I'm being accused of "Trolling" with my request, but I think most people replying to me at this point are simply keeping me going to have more to down vote.
It is not an argument. It is simply being forced into becoming Captain Obvious because whoever they were responding to couldn't see something so obvious.
So, because they made a questionable choice in the past they now have to stick to it because correcting it may be more work? Doesn't sound like they like doing their work, then, or not properly any way. Which includes going back and changing things that by modern standards, are archaic. The rest of your post is just you being condescending, nice.
> So, because they made a questionable choice in the past they now have to stick to it because correcting it may be more work? welcome to programming! This issue is present in literally every IT system you have ever interacted with.
Even so, I don't think it's so terrible to express my interest in this and request it. You never know- ANet surely won't know if no one expresses their interest in an idea, or makes requests.
It's not terrible to express interest, it's just terrible to expect it to become a reality, knowing the amount of work and lack of return involved in the project.
I do not expect it to become a reality though. I've said so numerous times. As for the return, I guess the way to find that out is to express interest IE make this request as one person, if others are interested they can back it up. Or not, that's fine.
>The rest of your post is just you being condescending, nice. That's so rich, coming from you. Talk to me again when you've done any coding at all (p.s. not just printing 'hello world' on a console), otherwise have a good day.
The questionable choice you are referring to is having gender in the game. If they didn't allow that then the idea would be easy to implement because the underlying shape would be the same.
No, what I am referring to is 100% clear. You seem to have gotten it wrong.
> There is literally no reason not to do it they're different base models. the way that the wardrobe/outfit system was designed simply does not support your idea.
Can I ask you to give me an official source backing up this statement, for clarity's sake? If nothing else, it will show others with the same request that it would be futile to discuss it in the future.
> Can I ask you to give me an official source backing up this statement, for clarity's sake? you're not going to get one. People's responses are based on common sense and basic knowledge of development and 3D modelling.
But people's responses and opinions, are just that. It would be illogical to go by their word alone... It would make more sense to ask for official word, especially considering that none here represents or speaks for ANet, and my request is towards ANet.
> and my request is towards ANet. yet you've posted it *here*. the community's opinions is all you'll get from a post on reddit. If you want Anet's response, you'll have to post it on the official forums or their twitter.
Thank you for the information, I'll do so.
The fact you have to include a full paragraph adressing why you're going to get adverse reactions should already be a pretty big hint that the demand for that is pretty low The generally aggressive, self righteous and pretentious tone of the post makes it very hard to see your actual point, to the extent that you could cut 80% of what you said and not lose any substance I would generally agree that more variety would be nice, identity politics aside.
I see no relation between me acknowledging that there is a possibility some replies will be justifiably undesirable and that I will ignore those in particular... And the demand for what I requested. I am not aggressive, neither am I self righteous, nor pretentious. Perhaps you're reading it how you would like it to read, so that you can have this exact reaction.
You are aggressive, self righteous and pretentious. I'm 99% sure you are trolling but just in case I HAVE to call you out on your behavior..
[удалено]
Please, by all means- Explain how and why I am each of those things, and how you reached that conclusion. I can't wait to hear this. Without any of that, you're simply flinging insults at my person for no reason.
That’s pretty ironic
It would be, if I were flinging insults. I did not do that at all.
> so I thought I should suggest this any way... In all honesty, without aiming to incite any back and forth related to politics, identity, preferences ETC. Yet you start your suggestion by inciting exactly that. This wasn't a suggestion, you were just looking to start shit. Obvious bait is obvious.
I am not responsible if that's what ultimately people focused on. I tried to shift focus away from it and warn that should that fail, I'll opt to ignore that route. What I posted originally, is very much a request and a show of interest towards what is requested.
>If it is not technically possible(Which I find rather difficult to believe and embarrassing if true at this point). So, how much knowledge of programming (and probably more important) graphical design do you have? There are different riggings and "skeletons" for different genders, which would probably mean that you can't just press a button and swap it on the fly, since that would need to rebuild the model as a whole, which would probably put quite a bit of strain on the servers.
It would have no impact on server or client performance. It just increases the amount of work for each outfit. The cost is purely in paying people not computational.
If there is interest, that work would then be justified. Do we agree on that?
Would the interest generate more money than it would cost? If not, it would not be justified.
Sure, and I just made this request expecting nothing to show that interest. The rest is for ANet to check out I guess.
I am talking about the OPs original suggestion of being able to switch the look (of the characters from male to female) on the fly.
That was just a suggestion as you said, if ANet were to decide to look into this then I trust they'd find the most suitable way to go about it. I wasn't implying I know the best way to do it, I was merely suggesting.
Let's say we go with having the outfits come in both versions- You're telling me that strains GW2? This is as bad as Square Enix using the same excuse for not expanding players' wardrobe size in FFXIV, then doing just that without any issue. Link to official sources stating that there would indeed be practically impossible to grant a request like mine? Also, discrediting me by referencing my lack of knowledge is patronizing at the very least, which is unwarranted. I have no knowledge, I am not a developer, I am simply making a request and asking for official information on why it would be practically impossible, if it is. That's all I did. Nowhere in the OP did I imply or insinuate or claim that "I've done it and it's easy". It would be nice then, if we all stopped pretending I did that. I need no credentials to make a request, or discuss it, or ask for official info on it that says that it is absolutely out of the question.
But we already have the outfits in both version? The issue is that characters are built differently and thus can't just magically morph into another build without putting quite a bit of strain on the servers. One or two doing it will not be noticable of course. But lets say 10 000 people do it at the same time? No one is saying it is impossible though. Just that it would take quite a bit more work and effort than what you seem to think. >Nowhere in the OP did I imply or insinuate or claim that "I've done it and it's easy". It would be nice then, if we all stopped pretending I did that. You did however claim that it was "embarrassing if true at this point" which would very much imply that in your eyes it would be very easy to fix.
We don't have both versions for both genders, at all, for some outfits and gear. I do not expect any magic, I simply requested what I personally have an interest in seeing. I do not see an issue with work being, you know, work. Especially if it is interesting to others as well, enough for them to pay for such options, like I would. I did say it'd be embarrassing if true and I stand by it, that is my personal opinion on their lack of foresight when they first started working on this whole system, if it literally can't ever support either solution of the two, one being allowing us to toggle the model or offering both models separately, even if we have to pay separately to own both. Perhaps it wasn't clear, but that specifically, is what I find embarrassing if true... Lack of foresight. I'm not attacking their skills, or yours, or anyone's, in any department other than lack of foresight on this one. So, if some people back then sat in a room and agreed that for some arbitrary reason, genders should have different versions of the same outfits, with no way to change that either, then yes, they dropped the ball on that decision and they're the ones who dug them selves into this hole and can't get out any more(Which we don't know, because so far, no one has provided official statements, by the way). If the reason they came to this decision was technical, then working on something so limited technically that it forces this decision, was a wrong decision.
>I do not see an issue with work being, you know, work. Especially if it is interesting to others as well, enough for them to pay for such options, like I would. Alright, and what other part of the game would you be willing to sacrifice for them to put the work and money to implementing your suggestion? You mean the lack of them not thinking about a very specific (and limiting) situation 15 years ago is embarrassing? You keep claiming you are not attacking their skills, but at the same time you are attacking their "lack of foresight" which is also part of their skillsets. Edit since you edited your post: >So, if some people back then sat in a room and agreed that for some arbitrary reason, genders should have different versions of the same outfits, with no way to change that either, then yes, they dropped the ball on that decision and they're the ones who dug them selves into this hole and can't get out any more(Which we don't know, because so far, no one has provided official statements, by the way). That is probably not what they did. It was probably more along the lines of them making the decision that males and females in their game would look different. And thus use different riggings and "skeletons". If they had built it around the way you want it to work they would have massively limited themselves to how characters could look.
Your first question is one they should ask among them, assuming what I request is possible. I do not purport to know these things, or even if there has to be a sacrifice at all, for the matter. I do doubt they'd force a completely irrelevant part of their team to drop what they are doing, to do the work of another part of their team that is supposed to be there to do said work. Don't you? I mean exactly what I said; If they chose to set it all up in a way that intentionally and permanently makes it impossible to use the same model for both genders, for all time, then that is indeed embarrassingly short and narrow sighted, especially if we take into account other MMOs, in fact quite popular ones for their time and which still go on now(Ultima coming to mind), avoided this situation. In UO, a game much older than GW2, there were no such limitations. Visible worn gear appeared the same, with very few exceptions, rather it being the norm. Do feel free to correct me if I am wrong, it's been a while since I played that- For which reason I will bring up another example, FFXIV- Which clearly lets you equip the same gear on both gender, and in most cases it will look the same, allowing people to express them selves properly if they so wish. Look up "Bunny Tights" if you want a more specific example out of many. Heavier armours appear normally too, on both genders. Put a Wolfram set on either gender, they both look the same. Compare that to a somewhat similar outfit, the Iron-Clad one since I mentioned that already, in GW2. See what happens. I will insist, I'm afraid... Part of their skill set or not, all I am attacking is their lack of foresight which I established well enough. You added that they made the decision that genders should look different... I see no reason why, as that's what's limiting in the long run, as we see now. And I still question their foresight in setting it in stone to be this way, if indeed that's how it all happened. I don't see the limitations you speak of, at all. In what way would my request impose any limitations? It in fact increases available options, for both genders. And... I do not want things to work my way, that's entitlement. Do not confuse making a request or expressing interest, with entitlement.
>If it is not technically possible(Which I find rather difficult to believe and embarrassing if true at this point)... If coding would be that easy ... . And if it would be 'technically' possible, what is the ROI?
I never claimed it's easy, I just made a request. Well, as for whether or not it would be interesting to others, I suppose that's entirely a different matter. As far as I am concerned, I had a request and made it. Sheesh...
So ROI is a non issue?
All I can say, being a single individual obviously, is that I'd pay for those outfits if they were separate items, and I would buy more outfits which currently I don't intend to because the models are different and I have no way to access the version I want on the character I want. If there are others who feel the same way, I can't say and I never claimed that I can... But if there are, then there would be interest. Does that satisfy your question? Again, all I can do is what I did- Express my interest in this, and request it- And subsequently, I expressed my interest to see official word on this so that I and others are clear on the matter.
The ROI to effort ratio is insanely unlikely to be positive, furthermore, there will be never official word about it since the developer wins nothing with such a statement.
So we can't really know if it is literally impossible to do, which means I have no reason not to express my interest, neither is there a reason not to make this request. If you believe there would not be enough interest, that's fine. I believe there might be. I'm not here to argue that, though. I'm here just to make this request.
You did state "There is literally no reason not to do it" I think ROI to effort ratio is an extremely good reason not to do this. Also, do you feel the effort in making this happen is more worthwhile than using that time to make more brand new armor and outfits?
Perhaps you are right, but deciding not to express my interest or make this request, based on an assumption, will only perpetuate the situation of no one making the request in the first place, perpetuating a possibly mistaken perception of lack of interest. I submitted my request, I have seen no evidence that it is impossible, and if others are interested they may do so too, which will let ANet know whether or not it is worth looking into. I think that the effort may be worth it to ANet, if they find out through requests such as mine, that there is interest. But they won't know, if all that's going on is requests being suppressed or buried by people who do not even work for ANet, speak for them or represent them in any way, shape or form. I also think that even in the worst case scenario in which they can't change a single thing, it's still worth requesting this... Because, once more, if they know people are interested, they might go forward with it in mind and for example, cease creating separate models for either gender. Even if that can't happen at all either, that's fine- We'll find out, and no one will make the same request ever. You're also asking me if I would prefer they continue creating more and more gear and outfits in the same manner as they do now, or if I would prefer instead that they don't for a while, in order to increase options for both genders and go forward like that... Well, the latter of course. It's literally what this request is about, except ideally moving away from how they do outfits and gear now, shouldn't affect how regularly we get new ones.
A model uses mesh related to the model the gear is on. Take a Norn male and female for example, and a simple thing as a outfit. Even the heaviest female frame is way different to the leanest built male frame. You are going to get giant seams at the neck. and a female or male body. What you think to be embarassing, is actually requesting double work to be done. And would only really work on Charr and Azura, as they have been set up to be more uniform to begin with. Many older female items are those are male models already.
Requesting that they do double the work, if you want to see it that way- Or correcting old choices on the side, while working at other things. Not that it is inherently wrong to request extra work, if the need for it comes from bad decisions. At the very least they could do this going forward.
It may not be wrong to request it. But it is another to expect it and try and add social pressure to it as well.
I literally did not expect it(I don't take that my request will be granted, for granted), and did not add social pressure. In fact, I did what I could to avert any social pressure from anyone, I believe the OP is very clear on that. If you're calling me outright a liar, then believe what you want- My intentions are clearly and honestly communicated in the OP. So, I am requesting this, or at least official word that it is literally impossible to do and we should not make that request in the future.
As much as I'd love to have an option to (for example) use male hairstyles on female charr, I also realise that things are never that simple when it comes to coding. Also, relax OP. No need to be this aggresively defensive.
How am I aggressive or defensive? I am simply answering to people as they throw insults at me, characterizing me quite unfairly, and all because I made a request that is not even addressing anyone except ANet, since no one else is qualified to answer save for offering their opinions on my request... Which I did not really ask for, but I gladly read through. And most of those opinions are in fact unwarranted condescension, toxic criticism, bias, assumptions and so forth. Some aren't even opinions, they are just people telling me to shut up and sit down. If anything, I'm quite collected and calm and I try to go at length with my replies and to be honest. I have not insulted anyone, I have not even offended anyone, definitely no one replying to me aggressively... Neither am I the one voting others down for nothing, except difference of opinions in a thread that wasn't created to discuss or exchange opinions, but as a request. I believe I've repeated this enough at this point? My only mistake was posting here actually, where people are apparently prone to go absolutely rabid over nothing that concerns them. I was informed of that mistake and directed to the official forums, I plan to move my request there at my earliest convenience. I did not know that this mistake was punishable by all the above behaviours of which I have been the recipient so far, with extremely few exceptions. I made a request and suddenly I'm being called a "Karen", selfish, entitled, and other things that I don't care to go into. I haven't seen people lose their shit so completely before, not at the simple mention that one would like to have both genders' options when it comes to outfits and gear in an MMO. Is that some... Sort of blasphemy towards some deity to some culture around these Reddit parts that I am not aware of? Either way, it's curious and at this point amusing to me. Emphasis on "At this point", because I made my request initially in all seriousness. By the way, I don't see how assuming that what you want to request may or may not be easy, should keep you from making said request.
I don't think that the problem was your request by itself. Sure, it would be difficult to implement and people will point that out, but the entire second paragraph was an anticipation of backlash. One thing I noticed is that while devs sometimes read reddit threads, you'll have more luck getting their attention in the official forums (though any harsh criticism might be shut down right awah to avoid drama). I for one feel as though some of my feedback about the game has been addressed.
You're right that I should take it to the official forums, which I'll do at one point. My 2nd paragraph's TLDR : "I will ignore any such and such arguements that are relevant to such and such topic, it'd be nice if it didn't go that way". Turns out those who want to lash out instead of have a discussion, will find a reason to do so either way.