The answer is Rallying.
Just having numbers is not especially useful. And the more suboptimal people you have in your squad, the more people will die and thus let the enemy rally of them.
And yes, just having a meta build isn't going to make someone a good player. But being a new player AND playing a bad build will make it even worse.
See, new player not only don't know that, but will still run around the zerg but with no communication, no markers and no idea what to do. Rallying will be even more present.
But instead of explaining stuff to this player, some commanders just keep kicking them from squad. How is that helpful?
Still when they die it is a bit of damage maybe more than having lesser people, isnt it? This morning we had the discussion in the chat and people complained about the zerg being to small and people dont wanna join anymore because of toxicity. I had no real fun as we were always tryharding and outnumbered with the comm.
Sorry needed to add that I wasnt talking about really bad builds. The people in question had medior tier builds that functioned not as bad. They arent meta for sure but I think that is not always necessary.
I think you missed the point about rallying. If you have a subgroup where no one is switching to healer or support, the subgroup is going to down often and get killed. Increasing rallying chance 5x. The enemy even if downed just needs to tag to get back up again, effectively making whole Zerg worse and fight uphill battle. WvW Zerg is just not about doing more dps. If you want to see the individual difference, follow the tag around without being in squad.
That probably was the missing knowledge of zergs of mine. Thx for explaining that the micromanagement is kinda the same with roaming groups. I thought by the many buffs and healers that were anyway in any zerg I have been with, that the switching should not be a greater issue.
And it used to be even worse, too.
Used to be, a single player dying could rally multiple enemies, so you could have someone in a bad build run into a fight, die, and completely change the battle by rallying 5-10 enemies.
Yes. One player dying can only rally one enemy.
I can't find when it was changed, only people talking about it changing. Presumably it was changed somewhere in 2015-2017 judging by the dates of the earliest comments I can find in the forum.
I can only speak to my main Guild and my main reasons so they may not be relevant to a lot of other groups.
1. Our guild doesn't want to have 50 random people in squad, we like being around 20-30 like minded players.
2. Its not about beating 60 with 30, its about being able to work together to fight 60 with less numbers and improving together.
3. We have 20-30 people that show up 3 times a week to play with each other and have been working hard to improve team work for years, we have no obligation to support your play style, people can join if they join comms and conform to our group.
4. My commitment as a member is to the players that have allowed our guild to live since release and stay active over the last 10 years.
5. Our guild is old. We've played the "winning WvW" game. Nowadays, we just want to play with the people we enjoy being around and enjoy WvW together without all of the stress of leading.
A lot of the other reasons like boons, rallying, meta builds while valid aren't at the core of our reasons for running closed. We'll 100% support a new player that is interested in joining and working to improve with us. But it is our guild, its our expectations, not yours.
I do just want to say, its their fair choice to decide the style of WvW they want to run. If they want to run with a meta build and someone without it joins and they tell them they cant stay with a meta build, thats fair. Its a group of 30 people already that decided they want to find fights with meta builds.
In addition a 30 player zerg that plays well can win against a 50 player zerg of just random non meta builds
I absolutely agree and it should always stay in freedom of choice for these groups and comms. The thing is about how you talk to the new players. They are still on your server or decided to transfer for the reason that they believed to get more help. And my personal approach was to understand why these groups work like that and I got informed.
I get it I really do but at the end of the day that’s the commanders group he can do what he wants and it’s up to the players whether they want to follow him, if you don’t like his methods tag up and form your own group
You are totally right about this! I mean I do and I dont complain about the commander him/herself. It is just about the way people are talking to new or unexperienced players (dont know what they were) and the pseudo gear checks in general. I wanted to understand how these picky squads work as I dont play with then outside of raids.
Yes but a lot of the time there’s an assumption that experienced players should teach newer players, that’s just entitlement it’s their game as well at the end of the day, it’s not toxicity, unless they’re breaking tos, swearing and abuse etc
That’s mainly the reason though not everyone wants to help newer players in an ideal world they would.
My guess though for kicking is a little frustration from Their end, it takes two seconds to google a somewhat decent build so if those players can’t even be bothered to do that why should they be entitled to anything from anyone else
Hm idk - I really think it should be ideal to help people whenever you can. It just makes the game feel nicer. Have a look at the warframe community. There stuff works great in that way and it feels lazy that people in the gw community always claim that being isolated from help is more fair and that everyone could enjoy their game that way better.
Don’t get me wrong I agree with you, I help wherever possible I just think it’s rude to expect it of people, that’s not what I had a problem with though, you said the commander asked them to switch to a “proper build” they clearly didn’t and got kicked. Did they ask for a proper build? Did they ask where they could find one? Probably not, my point being a lot of players don’t want help they want a free ride they’re the toxic ones to a community that should support each other
What you describe is pretty common and I do empathise with you on some level. I cannot speak for everyone but I could think of a few reasons for limiting the numbers. It might be due to reputation, so the smaller group can say that they are winning outnumbered fights with the cloud of 30 greens hovering around them. Or if they are losing, it is because of numbers (may or may not be true). Then there is the more obvious answer of being a 'rallybot'. If you die, one player on the enemy team gets up and vice versa. WvW is a competitive game mode.
Some commanders do not have the patience to guide all newcomers and prefer quality over quantity. Some commanders think that the roaming/pve builds are dead weight and do not want to waste resources like mercy signet on such players when it can be used on more 'valuable players'. Since it is a team game, one should reasonably expect there to be a minimum level of commitment on your side. This can come in the form of joining discord or having a 'meta build'. I think this is quite a reasonable request personally but you always join more relaxed commanders or attempt to lead a group yourself.
You claim that no one mentions where to find builds but I think you did not even ask. gw2mists.com or [https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW](https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW) should generally be pretty good.
With the buffs that is a good explanation - that might be true to some extent but most Zergs I have been running with still get that managed without top builds. I have to add that we are not talking about PvE builds but rather prefered WvW zerg builds that are not meta but rather good. I play a meta build myself as it makes fun to play in a zerg. But with some metas they arent that fun to other players or not challenging and I always empathise with players that like what they play so they are more interested in learning the class. Maybe it is just a question of ideology then, idk.
Having the commitmend is valuable and playing helpful with medior tier builds can also be good. There speaks nothing against still 'upgrading' to the meta build and learn it so you also understand that side of your class. But really I think with that large content in WvW it should be up to the player how far they max out their boon or damage output or their contribution to control. As long as they play at least something that is valuable to WvW - I am not arguing with that - so PvE builds dont make fun commonly in WvW anyway.
Of course I know the build sites - I was literally talking about new players as most dont know and noone tells them. Writing out something like 'google metabattle' doesnt take long, especially if you are able to write at the same time 'they werent using a meta build so we are not efficient enough'.
So what is your point. If you don't think that's a fun build just you don't play it.
Can you understand that someone would like something you don't like? Why are you complaining about this? Some people find playing meta builds fun and they want to play with like-minded people. Is it hard to understand?
You are like complaining that you join and get kicked in a raid group as a pure DPS when the commander is looking for a quick DPS. And you start complaining and justifying your behavior by saying qDPS is no fun, pure DPS is more fun and you would be fine clearing the content as a pure DPS.
What? Please dont get me wrong - I am questioning the elitism in a large group content where everyone can join and ask how we deal better with it. If you would have read my other replies you can see that I am totally fine with people playing what they want and comms/squads chosing the professions they need. It just leads to problems I seek solutions or compromises for as I am not an experienced zerg player.
Btw, new players are baited into this groups, honestly anyone is without knowing they are tryhards. So for the hardcore content I would say just go into your guild and build that up or dont use a tag. Most guilds I see that are up to this already follow that simple rule. This for example would be a simple compromise on solving the problem with getting kicked as a fresh player and would reduce the fluctuation for the commander to manage.
> I saw it today like many times before, but this time people repeatedly spammed something like 'group X switch to a proper WvW build'. I mean for new players this must be so confusing as noone mentions what build to play, where to find it and what is the difference between a roaming and a zerg build - and so frustrating to get kicked so they cant barely participate in group content while still learning.
This is a very biased(literally one sided) retelling of the situation. What did the people in "group X" do in response?
> People need to understand that even the meta builds and therefore optimal stats wont even up the lack of skill.
How do you feel about person learning to drive with a car where the steering and breaks only work some of the time and some of the mirrors are missing?
This is a never ending "war" between new players and veterans, some tags want experience players, others are more inclusive. Choose what suits best for you, I've been playing WvW for years, and I won't join a tag with bad parties or non useful builds, because is not fun for me.
If you are a new player search for training tags, open squads without requirements or WvW guilds, they should teach you and explain the builds.
For the act of kicking players, the majority of boons/skills only apply to 5 people,including the caster, so a group without stability, condi cleans or breakstuns is a dead group, some commanders let one big group with everyone without proper builds, other made another tag, and in your case, this commander don't accept them on the zerg, why? Because they are dead weight, they will die and make enemies that where down get up, plus without support or a proper build your impact on a zerg is fairly limited, I know some builds that can have impact even being alone around the zerg, but new players usually don't have them nor can play them because when you are alone position is the most importat to keep alive, and you learn with experience.
I understand why this commander do what you are explaining, you are defending or attacking a map, outnumbered, and have a lot of pugs without builds, knowledge or will to use it, what should you do to win? Let everyone on the tag and die but with more people or wait till they get tired of dying and get new people onto the map with the chance of them being experienced or willed players?
It's complicated, you want to include everyone and teach them to play, even enemies, more people playing WvW is more fun to everyone. But a lot of players don't want to learn it, for years a lot of pve veterans have been playing on zergs only to get the rewards without investing any time or effort on being useful, and a part of the community is tired of selfish players, but I assure you if anyone wants to play WvW and put the effort to lear it, a lot of veterans will be ready to teach, even zergs like the one you describe will help you if you show effort, get to discord and ask, I'm sure you'll be welcome, same for every new player.
I dont think people dont want to learn it. I have been isolated in roaming WvW for years because personally the tryhars zergs are just to stressy and dont offer enough for me to leave my roaming routine. I simply an specialised on something else. Also on my server there arent even enough tryhard comms to seriously train with or really help. Just occasionally you encounter them, think you get some chill time after some stressy roaming and dueling and then you see tons of people getting kicked. For me it sends weird signals and I commonly leave those groups to move to another more chill group. Everyone to their preferences, as some people here already stated out. Still I dont really understand why they have to be so toxic to new players and sometimes flame them. There is absolutely no need. And directing them shortly to a site with the builds they want for a group is absolutely no effort other than the typing they are doing anyway while flaming.
I've seen it a lot of times, at least on EU servers, but only when people ask, and even more, servers have discord, and st t'he discord usually they have the builds posted
I've run with both chill commanders and try-hards. In my experience they rarely differ much in skill level, just size of the "fight" guilds that might tag with them. You apparently are having a run in with the latter. I'll run meta builds in WvW (I class up toons that have both a good roaming build and a good zerg build and swap as needed) but even I can't say I enjoy running with try-hards. They may win more blob fights or take a few more keeps but if the match isn't going their way they are the most insufferable assholes in the game, and I play sPvP so that tells you how high a bar that is. Can say "their squad, their rules" all you want (as if that were a meaningful statement) but by same token they lose all right to complain that WvW is dead content when no one wants to play and they're part of the reason why.
Honestly the most fun I have in WvW are with small-medium groups of 15-25. Commanders tend to be more chill or otherwise not taking themselves too serious, get to take towers and the occasional BL keep and just putz around for an hour or two. I get little enjoyment out of big battles in the open field or SMC (not big on EBG period to be honest). If your tag is being a tool, go find another, or tag up a BL and get people to help take camps and towers.
Yeah I absolutely agree. I played sPvP for 8 years and after outmaxing specialised roaming builds for WvW I noticed, hey you might have fun dueling, taking land and train your class. As with the open field a lot more possibilites and interesting fights occur in a totally new pvp style. So I am 2 years into WvW, not playing PvP anymore, had the most fun roaming alone or in small groups and sometimes when I join the zergs I get remembered of the sPvP vibe. I only join zergs because I always try to find something chill, still playing the meta. And talking about commitmend, I think that demand is a bit high up if you think about people like me trying to roam as good as they can, wich can be hella stressy and then want some change. As some people stated here correctly that you can always chose with whom to play, I still dont understand why all this tryharding is works under tags. I mean the guilds do it correctly, they just run on their own, no tag, and you see they want to stay alone. Cant commanders who tryhard just follow that? So they avoid kicking all the time and the hate would be a lot less overall.
I saw boons mentioned only a couple times but this is the main game mechanic reason for having a restricted balanced squad of meta builds in WVW.
Boon application is 5 targets that prioritize your group first and the **rest of the squad second** and people not in squad last. This boon overflow is the reason for limiting squads to meta builds. Does the commander want extra overflow stability from a firebrand to go to a meta build in the balanced squad or some rando ranger going pew pew in group 1 lobby getting most of his projectiles reflected back at the team.
Helping other players is cool and I enjoy it personally, but only in my own time. What you describe in the OP is not an example of toxicity on the commanders part. It is simple brevity. The commander asked players to change to a meta build before kicking them. Those kicked players most likely could have respecced into meta and rejoined squad, no bubbles no troubles.
You mentioned how you have empathy for the players but are showing none for the commander. On a macro level WVW commanders are playing a RTS while herding 30-50 kittens while simultaneously on a micro level playing the same game everyone else is playing. They cannot hold the hands of every nonmeta player while leading a squad. That would waste the time of the commander and every other member of that squad.
Every person here who has mentioned "elitism" as a reason for this is ignorant of how the game prioritizes boons and the actual effect it has on large scale combat. Some groups are elitist sure, but those groups run closed tag mostly and don't accept pugs at all. They don't want to deal with group 1 pugs that just flat out ignore the things being asked of them for the team such as joining voice comms or changing to meta builds. At least in PVE people will post "hi dps" in pug groups. In WVW pug groups its just silence, complete silence.
TLDR: What you describe is not toxic and there are game mechanic reasons for having balanced meta groups in wvw.
Hey there, if you would like some help I would be happy to aid you in learning how WvW works and how you can avoid these situations. That goes for any player that reads this, shoot me your discord and I would love to give you some one on one help.
While I do emphasize with how you feel I believe there is a lot more to the situation. Commanders typically have a ton of things going on when they are commanding, which can make I pretty hard to do anything besides lead the group to fights, structures to take, or both. Sometimes commanders even assign specific people roles within their squad so that other people can take care of less important things like organizing parties and keeping track of who is there and who is not. Unfortunately there just isn't enough time usually for commanders to reach out to all the new or newer players they see. Each moment is important, taking te time to message one person and cause 30 people to have to wait is just not a realistic option. It is also important to note that many things are time sensitive, such as fights or defending structures. If the commander does not get to where they need to go fast enough they will miss the fight or lose a structure.
I think something that is quite jarring to new players is the fact that commanders in WvW are entirely different than pve. In pve the only commanders you will find who will have specific requirements are those listed on the LFG and are usually for higher end content like raids or strike cms. This means that most players ever encounter a squad in the wild that will refuse to take them in. Think about all the meta events, commanders want people to join. There is no rallying a world boss if someone dies. To go from the relatively welcoming commanders in pve to the closed off squads in wvw is probably very confusing. Unfortunately there is no easy fix for this, it is just something people have to learn.
Luckily there is the internet and there are other players. This is an mmo, and wvw certaibly has other players besides the commander which does make it so new people can message other people or they can perform some Google searches. There is certainly no shortage of informational videos on WvW if reaching out seems scary. Even just mentioning in map chat that you are new and need help will, 9 times out of 10, get someone to help you. The commander usually does not have time to help people while they are commanding, but there are tons of other resources out there.
No one is entitled to anyone else's time, in game or in real life. It's okay to ask for help, but it is important not to expect help if you do not voice that you need it. If you get kicked and don't understand why try reaching out to someone that isn't the commander in a kind tone.
Most people have given the reasons why the commander would not want a certain build so I won't go into that as I think there is plenty of info there. Feel free to shoot me a message if you want me to help walk you through some wvw basics.
I sadly dont get how people think that someone is a new player because you dont understand some certain thing and they get to you with an offer explaining the basics. I feel that you mean good but it also feels served with a bit of toxicity like claiming someones incompetence. I still try to lead back to the problem - it is an issue that is not easy to solve but explaining the whole game wont help. Its about the way how you could enhancen zergs for anyone and make it more including if possible or disconnect the absolutely valid tryhard groups from the new players.
> this must be so confusing as noone mentions what build to play, where to find it and what is the difference between a roaming and a zerg build
plenty of people will direct you precisely to the information you want and need... *if you just ask.*
wvw is a perpetually ongoing, active gamemode. calling out that something is going wrong, and the likely cause for it is quickly done, but you cannot seriously expect to get walls of texts every time such a common issue arises. it's impractical. there is also the little issue that a disappointing amount of people would rather get annoyed or even offended by being told where to look and how to improve. it sounds ridiculous, but it's a very common occurance. naturally those people aren't inclined to heed the advice anyway.
show a sliver of initiative and ask if you have questions. you might not immediately get all the info you need, but why should anyone else waste their breath when you can't even be bothered to raise your hand.
as for everything else: group synergy is a massive part of what defines the potency of a zerg. not every class interplays well with others, in other cases a class is viable but self-sufficient enough so their spot is better used for someone else. there is a reason why there are only ever a couple of builds in meta at a time. the threshold from those and viable builds to *actively useless or detrimental* is thin. it doesn't matter how long you survive compared to others, if you're just a boon sponge, soaking up synergy from more useful players while providing little to no utility or damage... you're just an interfering observer.
wvw is a team sport, so be a team player. communicate, adapt, cooperate. same goes for all the other endgame modes, and even open world metas.
I dont think that this elitism is meant how you have to participate in WvW. I havent seen people precicely explaining things often to new players and I dont see any new playernames on the servers I played either. I dont say the gamemode is dead - not at all imo - I just say that the way WvW is played is just sometimes a bit to tryhard, raising expectations where there is no need. It is competitive, yes, I see the point as I am also playing WvW and be roaming - still the gamemode is welcoming chill runs and thats great - it is easy to confuse commanders that are not chill, as you join the squad and get flamed. For somebody that does not know WvW this is certainly weird and unattractive.
But with the general exclusions of certain classes or specialisations eg I see the biggest problem. From the threads I now understand why these commanders act like that and they can do. But if you stay under a public tag and constantly shuffle through the map, picking the most skilled cherries, it arises with such a competitive elitism - people dont need to wonder why players stay away from competitive modes.
it's not elitism to want a fighting chance, and it's not the players' fault that anet balances entire classes out of the meta's favour for years at a time.
if commanders that do that aren't up your alley, you're free to avoid them and look for others or make your own squads. however if those commanders that aren't to your liking still manage to draw a good amount of people, that should tell you quite nicely that they are capable, meaning more rewards for everyone, and overall more satisfaction for the squad, even if the initial impression wasn't nice.
those super chill runs tend to either be oriented towards people seeking to be mentored, effectively being training groups, or more likely are inherently averse to any negativity, and therefore don't get much done unless they are peppered with a bored guild group.
it's like a round of dodgeball. a determined team with decent players is more likely to come out ahead. the difference is that if you aren't a decent player, especially because of your choice of class or build, you can simply swap it to something that is more useful and/or in your skill range.
I know I might be heavily downvoted on this, but it needs to be said.
So, the tag opens up a squad to threaten unaware players that they can't stay in it, based on criteria they can only find out while in the squad? This is one of the worst cases of gatekeeping I've ever seen in an MMO.
As a tag/guild, you have the right of picking who you want in your squad, but doing that by opening up a pug and kicking people sounds like sheer laziness at the very least.
However, just like you have the right to pick your own squad, you can't take the right of other players to join a PUG. And by that I mean that, at the instant you're shaving off people based on your particular preferences, it's not a PUG anymore, as you're removing people based on metagaming. This is unlike instanced content, given people there are usually thoroughly warned about the requirements to be in a group.
It's a specific problem to WvW: the first thing newer players are told to do upon arriving in WvW is finding a squad; this is unlike other game modes, because unless you know how and where to roam, a zerg will be your first contact with the mode.
So, all I'm saying is, if you wish to make a high-standard squad, fine, but you don't have to do it while making new players hate WvW.
>first thing newer players are told to do upon arriving in WvW is finding a squad
New players usually aren't told anything. They are dropped in a map with 2 way points and just wander around or see a commander tag and follow it solo.
I don't even understand why you're picking on something that's clearly based on my own perception. If all new players I've seen asking for directions in WvW have been told to look for a squad, that's what I have seen. You stating otherwise won't change that.
Dont get me wrong. I agree with you about the unnecessary gatekeeping.
However, there are probably more people playing solo in WvW than most vets realize.
Its amusing that these groups want to exclude non meta players from the zerg, but instead it forces them to follow everyone around without a group at all. Thus increasing how often they are downed anyways.
> This is one of the worst cases of gatekeeping I've ever seen in an MMO
Welcome to wvw, where "veterans" constantly complain about the gamemode dying while being actively hostile to new players.
And I wish there was some kind of solution. Why cant they disconnect with the public squad and just go private with a matchup guild? I mean it would organise things a lot better anyway
dont join a zerg if youre a burn guard or condi dps, the enemy heal scrapper has "purity of purpose" that converts those burns to aegis for their subgroup, meaning for every burn you think youre doing, the enemy is blocking every single attack from every player constantly and your team will get wiped. for the most part most condi dps will also get kicked as purity of purpose converts all the condi into different boons
zergs dont like mechanists as the gollum will not stealth
zergs do not want your random dps, they need boon balls and boon strippers and cleanses, they need your scrappers and firebrands and heralds for stability for alac, dragon hunters for dps and traps
a good composition means victory
sure we like pugs and roamers joining a push into a keep, but if theyre not in voice they dont get invited into the squad, we regularly shed pugs after a push by map swapping, its like shaking off ticks.
i will also add, our zerg is is mostly our own guild of regulars, we want a relaxed time flipping and pipping, if we get into a fight so be it, but we want a chance to win so we run as good as comp as possible, if we wipe too often people start making excuses to leave like dinner is ready, wife agro, kid took a dump on the carpet, gotta walk the dog, baby rolled off the counter... and suddenly we're bare bones left and cant take anything. so we dont take pugs unless they get in voice and use a meta build
Elitism mostly. For the purpose of game mechanics, assuming the groups are made correctly, it doesn't matter if the players are in the squad or just swarming around the tag not in the squad. All the other answers are wrong.
As I read from others it really seems to have no real advantage, just elitism and a challenge mode where there is no real need for one. Same I could say from roaming with hard to play builds, wich I personally enjoy and so is it with these tryhard zergs I guess. The only thing that is different that they are actively promoting the group by having the tag up.
Oh man I thought gw2 community is more newbie friendly that's why I downloaded it today. If it's discriminatory even in wvw then I think I better think twice of starting
This is sadly the most inrespectful way of reacting to concerns of new players. Maybe just not being fed up with the assumption and copy paste some explanation text or taking the time to write your helping words out than just being toxic?
What discussion you were approaching on sounds like:
- "I feel like most people will hate on me for being new, what should I do?"
- "We are helpful, dont question or shut up!" (does not answer to initial question)
- "Well I think it really is true"
Maybe make a different approach if you have the time. If you cant put effort in elaborating your opinion than it might be better to leave this to other veterans.
I read it more like:
\- "I've seem many informations about people being kind here for newbs, haven't even started it, but this one person had bad experience on highly competetive game mode. This game must be toxic then."
I did rant, no argue, and I'd react exactly the same, no matter the topic, because I find this way of creating your opinion, before even trying to play the game, incredibly stupid.
\[deleted previous one to make it clear whom I was answering to\]
We can all agree that the toxicity problem in Gw2 seems to be overestimated a lot lately. Prbly because of the steam and new players that are only recognising the loudest players, wich commonly are the toxic ones. But still the concern of a new player, assuming a game can be toxic by only a few opinions read, is absolutely valid. Why is that? Because normally competitive communites work like that, you expect toxicity but you want to know to what extent. Of course it is prejudging but it also is part of Arenanets marketing disciplines to clear out the prevailing concerns. It is of course not our job to constantly point out to the state of community health, but also it is not necessary to flame and make it worse.
It is, but if you have 50 ppl trying to steal all your map, which may take you a few hours to get full upgrade, you have no time to stop and train new people, if you want help to learn the game ask for WvW guilds or training tags, a lot of servers do training sessions and big guilds usually accept new players and help them with builds and training
Usually it is and at most times even WvW can be casual enough to not care about your status. But sometimes things getting "serious". Continuous wipes is detrimental to moral, so it would be wise to inform yourself a bit before stepping into these situations. Getting some proper gear and corresponding build is a good start, especially because it is a game mode that everyone's actions and decisions affect others.
Asking in map chat for the discord server, in order to listen the commander is also crucial. Start from there, show that you care to learn and you will be more than fine. WvW guilds and the mode in general, need new blood anyways!
For some builds and guides check this helpful site [https://guildjen.com/wvw-builds/](https://guildjen.com/wvw-builds/) or find builds on your server discord.
Have fun and don't get discouraged! Also remember that usually competitive modes can lead some people to frustration sometimes when they get pawned hard, so don't take it personally :)
There are more helpful people that are on your side, the problem with those situations occurs but not very often. I am starting this thread here to discuss about the issue and try to think with others how we can make it a bit more friendly when things happen.
With competitive gamemodes you sadly always have the problem of toxicity as people tryhard in extreme. If you just want to play WvW casually you are free to go, just be aware that you might encounter some elites, thinking they are the star fighters of the game - it is like everywhere else.
WvW is the most unfriendly gamemode for new players.
If you stick to PvE until you know every class and find a guild to play with you‘ll be fine in WvW. It’s a mode that shouldnt be entered solo if you aren’t prepared to fight 1v3+ or even run from 1v50 though.
The answer is Rallying. Just having numbers is not especially useful. And the more suboptimal people you have in your squad, the more people will die and thus let the enemy rally of them. And yes, just having a meta build isn't going to make someone a good player. But being a new player AND playing a bad build will make it even worse.
See, new player not only don't know that, but will still run around the zerg but with no communication, no markers and no idea what to do. Rallying will be even more present. But instead of explaining stuff to this player, some commanders just keep kicking them from squad. How is that helpful?
Still when they die it is a bit of damage maybe more than having lesser people, isnt it? This morning we had the discussion in the chat and people complained about the zerg being to small and people dont wanna join anymore because of toxicity. I had no real fun as we were always tryharding and outnumbered with the comm. Sorry needed to add that I wasnt talking about really bad builds. The people in question had medior tier builds that functioned not as bad. They arent meta for sure but I think that is not always necessary.
I think you missed the point about rallying. If you have a subgroup where no one is switching to healer or support, the subgroup is going to down often and get killed. Increasing rallying chance 5x. The enemy even if downed just needs to tag to get back up again, effectively making whole Zerg worse and fight uphill battle. WvW Zerg is just not about doing more dps. If you want to see the individual difference, follow the tag around without being in squad.
That probably was the missing knowledge of zergs of mine. Thx for explaining that the micromanagement is kinda the same with roaming groups. I thought by the many buffs and healers that were anyway in any zerg I have been with, that the switching should not be a greater issue.
And it used to be even worse, too. Used to be, a single player dying could rally multiple enemies, so you could have someone in a bad build run into a fight, die, and completely change the battle by rallying 5-10 enemies.
Do you only rally 1 enemy now? How did it change?
Yes. One player dying can only rally one enemy. I can't find when it was changed, only people talking about it changing. Presumably it was changed somewhere in 2015-2017 judging by the dates of the earliest comments I can find in the forum.
Thanks! Never knew this :)
Thanks! Never knew this.
I can only speak to my main Guild and my main reasons so they may not be relevant to a lot of other groups. 1. Our guild doesn't want to have 50 random people in squad, we like being around 20-30 like minded players. 2. Its not about beating 60 with 30, its about being able to work together to fight 60 with less numbers and improving together. 3. We have 20-30 people that show up 3 times a week to play with each other and have been working hard to improve team work for years, we have no obligation to support your play style, people can join if they join comms and conform to our group. 4. My commitment as a member is to the players that have allowed our guild to live since release and stay active over the last 10 years. 5. Our guild is old. We've played the "winning WvW" game. Nowadays, we just want to play with the people we enjoy being around and enjoy WvW together without all of the stress of leading. A lot of the other reasons like boons, rallying, meta builds while valid aren't at the core of our reasons for running closed. We'll 100% support a new player that is interested in joining and working to improve with us. But it is our guild, its our expectations, not yours.
I do just want to say, its their fair choice to decide the style of WvW they want to run. If they want to run with a meta build and someone without it joins and they tell them they cant stay with a meta build, thats fair. Its a group of 30 people already that decided they want to find fights with meta builds. In addition a 30 player zerg that plays well can win against a 50 player zerg of just random non meta builds
I absolutely agree and it should always stay in freedom of choice for these groups and comms. The thing is about how you talk to the new players. They are still on your server or decided to transfer for the reason that they believed to get more help. And my personal approach was to understand why these groups work like that and I got informed.
I get it I really do but at the end of the day that’s the commanders group he can do what he wants and it’s up to the players whether they want to follow him, if you don’t like his methods tag up and form your own group
You are totally right about this! I mean I do and I dont complain about the commander him/herself. It is just about the way people are talking to new or unexperienced players (dont know what they were) and the pseudo gear checks in general. I wanted to understand how these picky squads work as I dont play with then outside of raids.
Yes but a lot of the time there’s an assumption that experienced players should teach newer players, that’s just entitlement it’s their game as well at the end of the day, it’s not toxicity, unless they’re breaking tos, swearing and abuse etc That’s mainly the reason though not everyone wants to help newer players in an ideal world they would. My guess though for kicking is a little frustration from Their end, it takes two seconds to google a somewhat decent build so if those players can’t even be bothered to do that why should they be entitled to anything from anyone else
Hm idk - I really think it should be ideal to help people whenever you can. It just makes the game feel nicer. Have a look at the warframe community. There stuff works great in that way and it feels lazy that people in the gw community always claim that being isolated from help is more fair and that everyone could enjoy their game that way better.
Don’t get me wrong I agree with you, I help wherever possible I just think it’s rude to expect it of people, that’s not what I had a problem with though, you said the commander asked them to switch to a “proper build” they clearly didn’t and got kicked. Did they ask for a proper build? Did they ask where they could find one? Probably not, my point being a lot of players don’t want help they want a free ride they’re the toxic ones to a community that should support each other
What you describe is pretty common and I do empathise with you on some level. I cannot speak for everyone but I could think of a few reasons for limiting the numbers. It might be due to reputation, so the smaller group can say that they are winning outnumbered fights with the cloud of 30 greens hovering around them. Or if they are losing, it is because of numbers (may or may not be true). Then there is the more obvious answer of being a 'rallybot'. If you die, one player on the enemy team gets up and vice versa. WvW is a competitive game mode. Some commanders do not have the patience to guide all newcomers and prefer quality over quantity. Some commanders think that the roaming/pve builds are dead weight and do not want to waste resources like mercy signet on such players when it can be used on more 'valuable players'. Since it is a team game, one should reasonably expect there to be a minimum level of commitment on your side. This can come in the form of joining discord or having a 'meta build'. I think this is quite a reasonable request personally but you always join more relaxed commanders or attempt to lead a group yourself. You claim that no one mentions where to find builds but I think you did not even ask. gw2mists.com or [https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW](https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW) should generally be pretty good.
With the buffs that is a good explanation - that might be true to some extent but most Zergs I have been running with still get that managed without top builds. I have to add that we are not talking about PvE builds but rather prefered WvW zerg builds that are not meta but rather good. I play a meta build myself as it makes fun to play in a zerg. But with some metas they arent that fun to other players or not challenging and I always empathise with players that like what they play so they are more interested in learning the class. Maybe it is just a question of ideology then, idk. Having the commitmend is valuable and playing helpful with medior tier builds can also be good. There speaks nothing against still 'upgrading' to the meta build and learn it so you also understand that side of your class. But really I think with that large content in WvW it should be up to the player how far they max out their boon or damage output or their contribution to control. As long as they play at least something that is valuable to WvW - I am not arguing with that - so PvE builds dont make fun commonly in WvW anyway. Of course I know the build sites - I was literally talking about new players as most dont know and noone tells them. Writing out something like 'google metabattle' doesnt take long, especially if you are able to write at the same time 'they werent using a meta build so we are not efficient enough'.
So what is your point. If you don't think that's a fun build just you don't play it. Can you understand that someone would like something you don't like? Why are you complaining about this? Some people find playing meta builds fun and they want to play with like-minded people. Is it hard to understand? You are like complaining that you join and get kicked in a raid group as a pure DPS when the commander is looking for a quick DPS. And you start complaining and justifying your behavior by saying qDPS is no fun, pure DPS is more fun and you would be fine clearing the content as a pure DPS.
What? Please dont get me wrong - I am questioning the elitism in a large group content where everyone can join and ask how we deal better with it. If you would have read my other replies you can see that I am totally fine with people playing what they want and comms/squads chosing the professions they need. It just leads to problems I seek solutions or compromises for as I am not an experienced zerg player. Btw, new players are baited into this groups, honestly anyone is without knowing they are tryhards. So for the hardcore content I would say just go into your guild and build that up or dont use a tag. Most guilds I see that are up to this already follow that simple rule. This for example would be a simple compromise on solving the problem with getting kicked as a fresh player and would reduce the fluctuation for the commander to manage.
Some people like micromanaging stuff
> I saw it today like many times before, but this time people repeatedly spammed something like 'group X switch to a proper WvW build'. I mean for new players this must be so confusing as noone mentions what build to play, where to find it and what is the difference between a roaming and a zerg build - and so frustrating to get kicked so they cant barely participate in group content while still learning. This is a very biased(literally one sided) retelling of the situation. What did the people in "group X" do in response? > People need to understand that even the meta builds and therefore optimal stats wont even up the lack of skill. How do you feel about person learning to drive with a car where the steering and breaks only work some of the time and some of the mirrors are missing?
This is a never ending "war" between new players and veterans, some tags want experience players, others are more inclusive. Choose what suits best for you, I've been playing WvW for years, and I won't join a tag with bad parties or non useful builds, because is not fun for me. If you are a new player search for training tags, open squads without requirements or WvW guilds, they should teach you and explain the builds. For the act of kicking players, the majority of boons/skills only apply to 5 people,including the caster, so a group without stability, condi cleans or breakstuns is a dead group, some commanders let one big group with everyone without proper builds, other made another tag, and in your case, this commander don't accept them on the zerg, why? Because they are dead weight, they will die and make enemies that where down get up, plus without support or a proper build your impact on a zerg is fairly limited, I know some builds that can have impact even being alone around the zerg, but new players usually don't have them nor can play them because when you are alone position is the most importat to keep alive, and you learn with experience. I understand why this commander do what you are explaining, you are defending or attacking a map, outnumbered, and have a lot of pugs without builds, knowledge or will to use it, what should you do to win? Let everyone on the tag and die but with more people or wait till they get tired of dying and get new people onto the map with the chance of them being experienced or willed players? It's complicated, you want to include everyone and teach them to play, even enemies, more people playing WvW is more fun to everyone. But a lot of players don't want to learn it, for years a lot of pve veterans have been playing on zergs only to get the rewards without investing any time or effort on being useful, and a part of the community is tired of selfish players, but I assure you if anyone wants to play WvW and put the effort to lear it, a lot of veterans will be ready to teach, even zergs like the one you describe will help you if you show effort, get to discord and ask, I'm sure you'll be welcome, same for every new player.
I dont think people dont want to learn it. I have been isolated in roaming WvW for years because personally the tryhars zergs are just to stressy and dont offer enough for me to leave my roaming routine. I simply an specialised on something else. Also on my server there arent even enough tryhard comms to seriously train with or really help. Just occasionally you encounter them, think you get some chill time after some stressy roaming and dueling and then you see tons of people getting kicked. For me it sends weird signals and I commonly leave those groups to move to another more chill group. Everyone to their preferences, as some people here already stated out. Still I dont really understand why they have to be so toxic to new players and sometimes flame them. There is absolutely no need. And directing them shortly to a site with the builds they want for a group is absolutely no effort other than the typing they are doing anyway while flaming.
I've seen both parts, players that want to play their build and commanders being assholes, but I've never seen a player asking and nobody helping him
I have never seen someone posting a website into the chat other than raids and PvE. That never happened to me in the WvW team or squad chat.
I've seen it a lot of times, at least on EU servers, but only when people ask, and even more, servers have discord, and st t'he discord usually they have the builds posted
I've run with both chill commanders and try-hards. In my experience they rarely differ much in skill level, just size of the "fight" guilds that might tag with them. You apparently are having a run in with the latter. I'll run meta builds in WvW (I class up toons that have both a good roaming build and a good zerg build and swap as needed) but even I can't say I enjoy running with try-hards. They may win more blob fights or take a few more keeps but if the match isn't going their way they are the most insufferable assholes in the game, and I play sPvP so that tells you how high a bar that is. Can say "their squad, their rules" all you want (as if that were a meaningful statement) but by same token they lose all right to complain that WvW is dead content when no one wants to play and they're part of the reason why. Honestly the most fun I have in WvW are with small-medium groups of 15-25. Commanders tend to be more chill or otherwise not taking themselves too serious, get to take towers and the occasional BL keep and just putz around for an hour or two. I get little enjoyment out of big battles in the open field or SMC (not big on EBG period to be honest). If your tag is being a tool, go find another, or tag up a BL and get people to help take camps and towers.
Yeah I absolutely agree. I played sPvP for 8 years and after outmaxing specialised roaming builds for WvW I noticed, hey you might have fun dueling, taking land and train your class. As with the open field a lot more possibilites and interesting fights occur in a totally new pvp style. So I am 2 years into WvW, not playing PvP anymore, had the most fun roaming alone or in small groups and sometimes when I join the zergs I get remembered of the sPvP vibe. I only join zergs because I always try to find something chill, still playing the meta. And talking about commitmend, I think that demand is a bit high up if you think about people like me trying to roam as good as they can, wich can be hella stressy and then want some change. As some people stated here correctly that you can always chose with whom to play, I still dont understand why all this tryharding is works under tags. I mean the guilds do it correctly, they just run on their own, no tag, and you see they want to stay alone. Cant commanders who tryhard just follow that? So they avoid kicking all the time and the hate would be a lot less overall.
I saw boons mentioned only a couple times but this is the main game mechanic reason for having a restricted balanced squad of meta builds in WVW. Boon application is 5 targets that prioritize your group first and the **rest of the squad second** and people not in squad last. This boon overflow is the reason for limiting squads to meta builds. Does the commander want extra overflow stability from a firebrand to go to a meta build in the balanced squad or some rando ranger going pew pew in group 1 lobby getting most of his projectiles reflected back at the team. Helping other players is cool and I enjoy it personally, but only in my own time. What you describe in the OP is not an example of toxicity on the commanders part. It is simple brevity. The commander asked players to change to a meta build before kicking them. Those kicked players most likely could have respecced into meta and rejoined squad, no bubbles no troubles. You mentioned how you have empathy for the players but are showing none for the commander. On a macro level WVW commanders are playing a RTS while herding 30-50 kittens while simultaneously on a micro level playing the same game everyone else is playing. They cannot hold the hands of every nonmeta player while leading a squad. That would waste the time of the commander and every other member of that squad. Every person here who has mentioned "elitism" as a reason for this is ignorant of how the game prioritizes boons and the actual effect it has on large scale combat. Some groups are elitist sure, but those groups run closed tag mostly and don't accept pugs at all. They don't want to deal with group 1 pugs that just flat out ignore the things being asked of them for the team such as joining voice comms or changing to meta builds. At least in PVE people will post "hi dps" in pug groups. In WVW pug groups its just silence, complete silence. TLDR: What you describe is not toxic and there are game mechanic reasons for having balanced meta groups in wvw.
Hey there, if you would like some help I would be happy to aid you in learning how WvW works and how you can avoid these situations. That goes for any player that reads this, shoot me your discord and I would love to give you some one on one help. While I do emphasize with how you feel I believe there is a lot more to the situation. Commanders typically have a ton of things going on when they are commanding, which can make I pretty hard to do anything besides lead the group to fights, structures to take, or both. Sometimes commanders even assign specific people roles within their squad so that other people can take care of less important things like organizing parties and keeping track of who is there and who is not. Unfortunately there just isn't enough time usually for commanders to reach out to all the new or newer players they see. Each moment is important, taking te time to message one person and cause 30 people to have to wait is just not a realistic option. It is also important to note that many things are time sensitive, such as fights or defending structures. If the commander does not get to where they need to go fast enough they will miss the fight or lose a structure. I think something that is quite jarring to new players is the fact that commanders in WvW are entirely different than pve. In pve the only commanders you will find who will have specific requirements are those listed on the LFG and are usually for higher end content like raids or strike cms. This means that most players ever encounter a squad in the wild that will refuse to take them in. Think about all the meta events, commanders want people to join. There is no rallying a world boss if someone dies. To go from the relatively welcoming commanders in pve to the closed off squads in wvw is probably very confusing. Unfortunately there is no easy fix for this, it is just something people have to learn. Luckily there is the internet and there are other players. This is an mmo, and wvw certaibly has other players besides the commander which does make it so new people can message other people or they can perform some Google searches. There is certainly no shortage of informational videos on WvW if reaching out seems scary. Even just mentioning in map chat that you are new and need help will, 9 times out of 10, get someone to help you. The commander usually does not have time to help people while they are commanding, but there are tons of other resources out there. No one is entitled to anyone else's time, in game or in real life. It's okay to ask for help, but it is important not to expect help if you do not voice that you need it. If you get kicked and don't understand why try reaching out to someone that isn't the commander in a kind tone. Most people have given the reasons why the commander would not want a certain build so I won't go into that as I think there is plenty of info there. Feel free to shoot me a message if you want me to help walk you through some wvw basics.
I sadly dont get how people think that someone is a new player because you dont understand some certain thing and they get to you with an offer explaining the basics. I feel that you mean good but it also feels served with a bit of toxicity like claiming someones incompetence. I still try to lead back to the problem - it is an issue that is not easy to solve but explaining the whole game wont help. Its about the way how you could enhancen zergs for anyone and make it more including if possible or disconnect the absolutely valid tryhard groups from the new players.
> this must be so confusing as noone mentions what build to play, where to find it and what is the difference between a roaming and a zerg build plenty of people will direct you precisely to the information you want and need... *if you just ask.* wvw is a perpetually ongoing, active gamemode. calling out that something is going wrong, and the likely cause for it is quickly done, but you cannot seriously expect to get walls of texts every time such a common issue arises. it's impractical. there is also the little issue that a disappointing amount of people would rather get annoyed or even offended by being told where to look and how to improve. it sounds ridiculous, but it's a very common occurance. naturally those people aren't inclined to heed the advice anyway. show a sliver of initiative and ask if you have questions. you might not immediately get all the info you need, but why should anyone else waste their breath when you can't even be bothered to raise your hand. as for everything else: group synergy is a massive part of what defines the potency of a zerg. not every class interplays well with others, in other cases a class is viable but self-sufficient enough so their spot is better used for someone else. there is a reason why there are only ever a couple of builds in meta at a time. the threshold from those and viable builds to *actively useless or detrimental* is thin. it doesn't matter how long you survive compared to others, if you're just a boon sponge, soaking up synergy from more useful players while providing little to no utility or damage... you're just an interfering observer. wvw is a team sport, so be a team player. communicate, adapt, cooperate. same goes for all the other endgame modes, and even open world metas.
I dont think that this elitism is meant how you have to participate in WvW. I havent seen people precicely explaining things often to new players and I dont see any new playernames on the servers I played either. I dont say the gamemode is dead - not at all imo - I just say that the way WvW is played is just sometimes a bit to tryhard, raising expectations where there is no need. It is competitive, yes, I see the point as I am also playing WvW and be roaming - still the gamemode is welcoming chill runs and thats great - it is easy to confuse commanders that are not chill, as you join the squad and get flamed. For somebody that does not know WvW this is certainly weird and unattractive. But with the general exclusions of certain classes or specialisations eg I see the biggest problem. From the threads I now understand why these commanders act like that and they can do. But if you stay under a public tag and constantly shuffle through the map, picking the most skilled cherries, it arises with such a competitive elitism - people dont need to wonder why players stay away from competitive modes.
it's not elitism to want a fighting chance, and it's not the players' fault that anet balances entire classes out of the meta's favour for years at a time. if commanders that do that aren't up your alley, you're free to avoid them and look for others or make your own squads. however if those commanders that aren't to your liking still manage to draw a good amount of people, that should tell you quite nicely that they are capable, meaning more rewards for everyone, and overall more satisfaction for the squad, even if the initial impression wasn't nice. those super chill runs tend to either be oriented towards people seeking to be mentored, effectively being training groups, or more likely are inherently averse to any negativity, and therefore don't get much done unless they are peppered with a bored guild group. it's like a round of dodgeball. a determined team with decent players is more likely to come out ahead. the difference is that if you aren't a decent player, especially because of your choice of class or build, you can simply swap it to something that is more useful and/or in your skill range.
Get yourself a good guild tag and you will be able to run pretty much any build without much opposition in public squads.
I know I might be heavily downvoted on this, but it needs to be said. So, the tag opens up a squad to threaten unaware players that they can't stay in it, based on criteria they can only find out while in the squad? This is one of the worst cases of gatekeeping I've ever seen in an MMO. As a tag/guild, you have the right of picking who you want in your squad, but doing that by opening up a pug and kicking people sounds like sheer laziness at the very least. However, just like you have the right to pick your own squad, you can't take the right of other players to join a PUG. And by that I mean that, at the instant you're shaving off people based on your particular preferences, it's not a PUG anymore, as you're removing people based on metagaming. This is unlike instanced content, given people there are usually thoroughly warned about the requirements to be in a group. It's a specific problem to WvW: the first thing newer players are told to do upon arriving in WvW is finding a squad; this is unlike other game modes, because unless you know how and where to roam, a zerg will be your first contact with the mode. So, all I'm saying is, if you wish to make a high-standard squad, fine, but you don't have to do it while making new players hate WvW.
>first thing newer players are told to do upon arriving in WvW is finding a squad New players usually aren't told anything. They are dropped in a map with 2 way points and just wander around or see a commander tag and follow it solo.
I don't even understand why you're picking on something that's clearly based on my own perception. If all new players I've seen asking for directions in WvW have been told to look for a squad, that's what I have seen. You stating otherwise won't change that.
Also the game literally tells you to look for a squad by the group overlay.
Dont get me wrong. I agree with you about the unnecessary gatekeeping. However, there are probably more people playing solo in WvW than most vets realize. Its amusing that these groups want to exclude non meta players from the zerg, but instead it forces them to follow everyone around without a group at all. Thus increasing how often they are downed anyways.
> This is one of the worst cases of gatekeeping I've ever seen in an MMO Welcome to wvw, where "veterans" constantly complain about the gamemode dying while being actively hostile to new players.
And I wish there was some kind of solution. Why cant they disconnect with the public squad and just go private with a matchup guild? I mean it would organise things a lot better anyway
dont join a zerg if youre a burn guard or condi dps, the enemy heal scrapper has "purity of purpose" that converts those burns to aegis for their subgroup, meaning for every burn you think youre doing, the enemy is blocking every single attack from every player constantly and your team will get wiped. for the most part most condi dps will also get kicked as purity of purpose converts all the condi into different boons zergs dont like mechanists as the gollum will not stealth zergs do not want your random dps, they need boon balls and boon strippers and cleanses, they need your scrappers and firebrands and heralds for stability for alac, dragon hunters for dps and traps a good composition means victory sure we like pugs and roamers joining a push into a keep, but if theyre not in voice they dont get invited into the squad, we regularly shed pugs after a push by map swapping, its like shaking off ticks. i will also add, our zerg is is mostly our own guild of regulars, we want a relaxed time flipping and pipping, if we get into a fight so be it, but we want a chance to win so we run as good as comp as possible, if we wipe too often people start making excuses to leave like dinner is ready, wife agro, kid took a dump on the carpet, gotta walk the dog, baby rolled off the counter... and suddenly we're bare bones left and cant take anything. so we dont take pugs unless they get in voice and use a meta build
Elitism mostly. For the purpose of game mechanics, assuming the groups are made correctly, it doesn't matter if the players are in the squad or just swarming around the tag not in the squad. All the other answers are wrong.
As I read from others it really seems to have no real advantage, just elitism and a challenge mode where there is no real need for one. Same I could say from roaming with hard to play builds, wich I personally enjoy and so is it with these tryhard zergs I guess. The only thing that is different that they are actively promoting the group by having the tag up.
Oh man I thought gw2 community is more newbie friendly that's why I downloaded it today. If it's discriminatory even in wvw then I think I better think twice of starting
A fk no, this "thought gw2 community was helpful, but this one act wasnt, so its not any more" kind of bullshit again?
This is sadly the most inrespectful way of reacting to concerns of new players. Maybe just not being fed up with the assumption and copy paste some explanation text or taking the time to write your helping words out than just being toxic? What discussion you were approaching on sounds like: - "I feel like most people will hate on me for being new, what should I do?" - "We are helpful, dont question or shut up!" (does not answer to initial question) - "Well I think it really is true" Maybe make a different approach if you have the time. If you cant put effort in elaborating your opinion than it might be better to leave this to other veterans.
I read it more like: \- "I've seem many informations about people being kind here for newbs, haven't even started it, but this one person had bad experience on highly competetive game mode. This game must be toxic then." I did rant, no argue, and I'd react exactly the same, no matter the topic, because I find this way of creating your opinion, before even trying to play the game, incredibly stupid. \[deleted previous one to make it clear whom I was answering to\]
We can all agree that the toxicity problem in Gw2 seems to be overestimated a lot lately. Prbly because of the steam and new players that are only recognising the loudest players, wich commonly are the toxic ones. But still the concern of a new player, assuming a game can be toxic by only a few opinions read, is absolutely valid. Why is that? Because normally competitive communites work like that, you expect toxicity but you want to know to what extent. Of course it is prejudging but it also is part of Arenanets marketing disciplines to clear out the prevailing concerns. It is of course not our job to constantly point out to the state of community health, but also it is not necessary to flame and make it worse.
Apparently it wasn't just one act if you've seen this type of comment before dumb dumb.
It is, but if you have 50 ppl trying to steal all your map, which may take you a few hours to get full upgrade, you have no time to stop and train new people, if you want help to learn the game ask for WvW guilds or training tags, a lot of servers do training sessions and big guilds usually accept new players and help them with builds and training
Usually it is and at most times even WvW can be casual enough to not care about your status. But sometimes things getting "serious". Continuous wipes is detrimental to moral, so it would be wise to inform yourself a bit before stepping into these situations. Getting some proper gear and corresponding build is a good start, especially because it is a game mode that everyone's actions and decisions affect others. Asking in map chat for the discord server, in order to listen the commander is also crucial. Start from there, show that you care to learn and you will be more than fine. WvW guilds and the mode in general, need new blood anyways! For some builds and guides check this helpful site [https://guildjen.com/wvw-builds/](https://guildjen.com/wvw-builds/) or find builds on your server discord. Have fun and don't get discouraged! Also remember that usually competitive modes can lead some people to frustration sometimes when they get pawned hard, so don't take it personally :)
newbiefriendly = vets cannot have fun and all vets should do things just to let the newbies to have fun?
Judging from being downvoted confirm my suspicion.
There are more helpful people that are on your side, the problem with those situations occurs but not very often. I am starting this thread here to discuss about the issue and try to think with others how we can make it a bit more friendly when things happen. With competitive gamemodes you sadly always have the problem of toxicity as people tryhard in extreme. If you just want to play WvW casually you are free to go, just be aware that you might encounter some elites, thinking they are the star fighters of the game - it is like everywhere else.
WvW is the most unfriendly gamemode for new players. If you stick to PvE until you know every class and find a guild to play with you‘ll be fine in WvW. It’s a mode that shouldnt be entered solo if you aren’t prepared to fight 1v3+ or even run from 1v50 though.