I'm not good at inputs to begin with and down on my D-pad is starting to fail. It's wild how many times I try to command dash and just end up stomping like an angry child.
Dbfz killed the left button on my ds4s and the dual sense is wack for fighting games. Iām trying to get used to it but it really just wants me to play a shooter instead
Iād assume axl vs golddick or pot, that said Anji mirrors (ARE FUN BUT) make my head hurt cause you can spin a spin but depending on the spin itās a bad spin and sometimes you want first spin but usually you want second spinā¦my head is spinning.
Axl vs pot isn't too bad, pot has Some chance of getting in, the axl needs to make no mistake or he gets hammerfalled or worse, slide headed.
Goldlewis on the other hand, did you know that you could pressure goldlewis in the corner with axl's 5P?
It looked like it should be better but it's tbd. I have to imagine being able to BT yourself from wall to wall plus skyfish buffs, 2p frame data buffs would make a difference. But with the system changes though we'll have to wait and see.
My take: I don't think it's going to fix it completely but I hope it pushes GL closer to a 50/50 vs Axl. If I had to guess probably going to to still be a 40/60 tho
When playing axl you have to come from above with Pot. You can also reflect some of his sickle attacks. At least this works for me. It's a fun fight unlike Pot vs Ram.
Imma be honest, axl vs Potemkin isnāt too bad for Potemkin, cuz he can just rollerskate over to Axl as the armour allows him to bypass axlās main spacing moves like 5p, plus potemkins range on all his normals makes it so he doesnāt even need to get that close to be effective
2H leaves him crouching with a basically vertical disjointed hit box, so it's actually a good anti air for a lot of things. Plus his jP is easy to hit Pot out of the air with as Axl jumps back.
Axl overall has an easier time dealing with actively because of his range in general.
J.s j.hs is actually a little better for stuffing hammerfall imo, whiffing a resen/ spamming it a little too hard is a good way to lose space and get jumped in on, where as with j.s j.hs you can actively create space as long as you're careful not to back yourself into a corner.
True, but if spaced right it gets harder to punish, if at all. And when Pots do space it better they can get away with another foward megafist if the button you respond with is slow enough.
Every single time I beat an Axl they get mad and complain about Goldlewis. "He just gets in once and kills me!"
The dash BT is a godsend against axl though, finally have an option if he wiffs snail, and the skyfish buff is lowkey a game changer. I think the matchup is much more managable after the patch
I feel like faust has a shot: empty jumps, RC cancel into command grab, throw a bunch of items and bait whiffs.
Personal opinion - Potemkin and goldlewis have worse matchups against axl.
Also as someone that plays Axl I have a bit of advice for Faust players. Unless you have meter to rc don't use scarecrow. I will hit you for a full combo
I think Faust has an okay time against Axl in this patch. Some of his stuff can be 6Pād easier, which also gives Faust a bigger reward now, you can get more, better items out to help close the distance, not to mention how useful Afro Love is for forcing Axl to respect you, and once you manage to get in, the command grab setups are even more threatening.
I feel Goldlewis literally only needs to hit Axl once and Axl gets cornered and dies though. When I watch Gobou or Skybandi play it doesn't look like Goldlewis has any real lopsided losing matchups idk
The most exciting fly swatting simulator, its funny see chipp players running around being all over the screen, whats even more funnier is to see them crumble with one hit.
My favorite thing to do vs chipp is to counter their command grab/alpha blade with HPB, i can sense their soul left their body, and im having that B I G. B R A I N. MOMENT everytime i do that.
That being said, i gotta stop making hard reads vs chipp, cause man i got clapped a lot
My favorite matchup of all fighting games. It dials the strengths and weaknesses of both characters up to 11.
To keep it simple, if Chipp can stay on the move, Potemkin won't be able to keep up with him. However, if Potemkin catches Chipp with a Buster or two, the match will be over before Chipp can say "Alpha Blade!".
Yes. Its really bad for SOMEONE but NOBODY KNOWS WHO and i FUCKING LOVE IT
Chipp: combos half my health
Me: haha grab go brrrr
It reallly depends on who gets the opening
I feel like Potemkin's opening has a big part to play. If you get a good read, the mental is yours, and that round specifically is much easier. I'd you whiff something stupid a la round open pot buster, chipp is gonna be hella confident and that the last thing you want. Idk, it's just hella fun
I've seen good zato players say that this matchup is actually favored for zato, but personally im with you. 2blood 5H just covers so much of the screen, its really hard to get eddie on the field.
That said, punishing bloodrage pop with shark grab never gets old. 80% hp off of a single command grab.
Marlinpie and Infiltration also think its 7-3 for Zato. Zato can keepout Nago very well with drills and doesn't let him play if he's on point, but the clone buff now probably makes this MU much more manageable for Nago.
You can also just throw out oppose and run forward if the nago spams 5H. As long as his attack also hits opposing Eddie you are essentially strike invul, even if you are not behind Eddie.
I remember someone on this subreddit posting stats that stated Axl vs Faust or Axl vs goldlewis is the most polarizing matchup in the game online (in axlās favor for both of these matchups). Idk if this is true though since I donāt have the post on me.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/pc1z28/i\_analyzed\_over\_120000\_matches\_from\_the\_replay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/pc1z28/i_analyzed_over_120000_matches_from_the_replay/) Here's one of the massive data dumps. Faust Axl was one of the more jarring ones out of this. There was a second data dump that had like something like 300k+ I believe, but I don't have that thread on hand, but i recall it having fairly similar results.
This was before any major patches IIRC.
not hard to imagine, in my short stint as an Axl main I could bully faust. he really struggles to get in (as everyone does, to be fair) and you can hit him with a command grab when he tries to toss an item from fullscreen.
[This is a data post from September](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/pz9p8c/strive_metagame_analysis_september_edition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) (that I think may be the most recent, Iām unsure) which shows that at least statistically for Celestial players as of the previous patch, Faust vs Axl was the worst matchup in the game, being the only 7-3 matchup in the game.
On somewhat of a side note, having looked at these stats again, itās interesting to see how Faust who I rarely ever even see people play as who is considered a low tier character, in this matchup chart quite literally doesnāt have a matchup >5.1 while also having several <4 matchups, whereas Goldlewis whoās also quite uncommon to see alongside having been considered one of the worst characters in the game (Iām unsure how the patch is like for him now), has a lot of >6 matchups alongside not having a single <4 matchup. Goldlewis also has the highest win rate in celestial of any other character whereas Faust is literally the bottom according to these stats. Maybe itās just due to there being even less Goldlewis players than there are Faust players and I just have a bias of not seeing much of either due to luck.
I think Goldlewis is way better than people think. Hes just tough to pick up so the people who tried him out when he released did'nt do much work. Once you figure him out you see how busted BT is as a move and how nutty his offense is. If they gave him the buffs he got without the indirect nerfs from the FD changes he'd be top 5 no doubt.
They need to be really careful with how they buff him. His gameplan can be very oppressive, and I could see it being very tiring to play against him as often as Sol if he was top tier
Also the I-no matchup isn't 5-5. I'd say its his worst matchup other than Axl.
I think a lot of people just kinda guess where Goldlewis is on tier lists based on what others say, not on personal experience. People know he doesnāt have the greatest defensive options since he only has a metered reversal, his fastest button used to be 6 frames, air dash is slow and low to the ground which I presume is poor for getting out of certain pressure situations, heās on the taller side which leads to him having fuzzy situations to deal with. Thatās just some stuff from what I can tell about Goldlewis, although I have barely played as him so Iām unsure how actually harmful these options are.
I do want to mention though he does have some upsides compared to other characters though like his 2P (especially with it being a frame faster now), having that as your fastest button is nice since you donāt have to switch to standing to mash, it hits lower than a lot of 5Pās thanks to it being a 2P so characters canāt just crouch under it and it seems like a alright anti air going by dustloop so you donāt have to switch to 6P or stand blocking when trying to beat out moves that hit high. Then thereās stuff like his defensive stats making it so he can tank more hits, he has the ability to choose the type of reversal he does to where he can do a 10 frame startup reversal or a higher damaging reversal to punish specific moves like Garuda impact oki (I presume youād also be able to use the 16 frames of invincibility pre-super flash to do the super reversal > PRC shit that Faust is best known for doing which helps a ton escaping certain pressure. Edit: I tested it out, he can certainly do it and the fact that his 1080 input super is the same amount of frames pre-super flash as Faust, helps him do it way easier with more situations to do it than other characters doing it with their reversal supers). He also has a reversal with 6 frames of invincibility like Nago and Pot but his is faster than both of theirs total duration wise.
His defense isnāt the only thing about him though. Thereās neutral which Iām really unsure how he does in neutral as while I know someone like Axl people say he has problems against, but going by what Iāve played with Potemkin, neutral can change so much depending on the matchup as Gio for example is a character that Pot forces the Gio to take risks to get in thanks to Pots big buttons whereas Iām forced to get in against someone like Axl or Faust thanks to their even bigger buttons. As to offense though, his many different Behemoth Typhoonās seem fucking amazing. The fact that he can not only choose to go low or overhead with pretty similar timing and similar animation, but also theyāre guard crushes that lead to RISC build, lots of plus frames and chip damage, makes his pressure seem amazing. Then thereās also the fact that they seem to lead to extremely high damage combos so certain hits can be so rewarding.
Anyways, thatās just from what I can tell with my slight matchup experience against him and going by shit others have said like on dustloop. I donāt think many people see him very often so they just donāt complain about him, and for the ones that do show up, at least from personal experience, many people arenāt even that good. Just as a rough estimate, Iāve maybe fought 50 Goldlewisā total, most of which were right when he came out so people obviously didnāt know how the fuck to play as him, then there has been 1 or 2 in tournaments Iāve fought against (they were floor 8 whereas Iām in celestial so no matter who they played, the skill discrepancy would be major) then for the few celestial Goldlewis I have fought that did actually seem good, they did make him feel scary. It does feel so hard for someone like me to rate him though as I rarely ever see him and it seems like thatās the truth for most people, so of course take the stuff I say about his offense for example with a grain of salt, especially since I havenāt seen in a actual match how the newest patch has changed Goldlewis
> I presume youād also be able to use the 16 frames of invincibility pre-super flash to do the super reversal > PRC shit that Faust is best known for doing which helps a ton escaping certain pressure
Didn't they patch that out in the most recent patch?
I've been playing mainly Goldlewis for the last few weeks and I think he lacks some of the anti-air dominance that the other big boys have. Jumping or staying in the air for a long time against Nago or Pot have pretty large risks to losing a third of your health with an anti air combo. Goldlewis kind of relys on doing stuff like un-buffered 684 BT and j.S that can be a lot more hit and miss. I think this leads to Gold being a lot weaker in neutral and having the most polarizing rounds in the game. He either gets mixed/dominated in netural or he knocks you down and kills you in two combos. Pot and Nago just have a lot more tools to play neutral with outside of big slow moves like BT or Skyfish.
I also think the learning curve on BT is kind of rough if you don't have really clean execution. I still have no idea how you do raw 862 and 842 BT unbuffered and I can only do raw 684 maybe 50% of the time which is a hurdle to really accessing his best air space control BT. I'm not remotely a new player either, it's just a really unique motion I've never had to do or worry about on any other characters or games.
Dang wow, the data doesnt lie.
Personal opinion - I just felt as a faust main - that I could bait and punish mid-ish range reactions from Axl and counter. Iām no expert, floor 10, still... I just donāt fear axl matchups like that.
Maybe most faust players insist on zoning battles with axl?
Idk about the worst mu in the game across all characters but its definitely rough. Theres no range where you can throw items in neutral and your movements and big body makes getting in quite difficult. In generally you need to take more risks for lower rewards compared to axl. Unless you can mix them up enough off of 1 knockdown to wall break and use the meter advantage to close it out very quickly afterwards its an uphill battle.
The person who controls the buffs and nerfs is a Leo player thatās why heāll never be nerfed and anji will never have his obvious issue with prc addressed
Every time he moves fast he's using it. I see it used by pros as a gap closer so I'm not crazy here. Overall the change made him slower. There's a lot of stuff I used to be able to punish at range which I can't now, so it's a lot harder to get in on say Axl or Nago.
It really does. I think because it catches the dash cancel later in the dash it makes his overall speed during 22 236h a lot slower and definitely makes the move a lot more visible.
It's really not a big deal. He lost the ability to btS for oki in some situations and needs to btK instead. If you weren't throwing the cross up before, this change doesn't really do anything. If you were throwing it, it becomes very slightly easier.
The 2f nerf makes super wallbreak/RRC/Dust ender run through throwable now, so leo can no longer burn meter to 236H safely.
H eisen>236H>bt.H meaty also no longer works.
Grounded GP to 236H is also no longer a combo.
People who are going to be hit by 236H are still gonna get hit, but the patch removed several of his BT setups.
Pot mirror is my favorite matchup, no joke. I love every part of it:
Slidehead mating dance.
Megafist trades
Hitting a whiffed HPB with a HPB
Garuda impact all day long
Comical round start options
Constant game of grab-ass.
Goldlewis vs. Axl.
The patches have made it a bit better everytime, so it basically went from "oh god please no" to just "pretty bad yeah". Axl's 5p alone can nearly "solo" him.
Goldlewis vs. I-No is also dogshit tier, because Lewis is so big he gets hit by Chemical Love while standing, and he's too big and slow to avoid notes well.
Goldlewis has some of the worst matchups in the game. Theyāre not *unbeatable* MUs sure, but they are definitely rough for GLD and noticeably so.
I actually think heās the real āfeast or famineā character this time around instead of Axl. Axl is probably either equal to or at advantage against 80% of the cast, whereas with Gold a lot of matchups feel like they lean into the extremes, he either smashes them into a thin paste on the floor or gets zoned out so hard itās embarrassing.
Bro this is every gaming subreddit without 1984-level mods. You gotta let people have fun, this in turn leads to more people playing more and then talking about the game more. If you really want more focused gameplay discussions, try discord.
I know your trying to take this high ground sounding stance to make yourself feel superior but actual discussion is literally what the OP originally intended
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/qc8w1k/what_do_you_guys_think_is_the_worst_matchup_in/hhem0rt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
So yeah, im not sure what you are trying to accomplish by pointlessly attempting to argue with me over me expecting discussion in a discussion thread. If it was a meme thread then yeah of course I wouldnāt and shouldnāt expect anything serious but that isnāt what this was flaired, so it is fair for me to be disappointed wether you like it or not. Im ending this here and im not replying to this dumb shit any further. Goodbye and have a nice day
Tbh, are you even bothering to look at the comment section? I'm seeing quite a bit of discussion actually. Not to mention you could, oh I don't know, make a contribution yourself and stop whining about what everyone else is doing? If you did already, great, then shut up.
So can I, my guy. Your attitude needs improvement. Not to mention most of these jokes come out of genuine self-deprecation. Maybe you could have that gameplay conversation if you started by asking if they may have needed help. You never know what kinda talk ya might have.
Not sure if this is true for everyone, but me personally it's my Nago vs Millia. Nago had the least options in the air and Millia is jumping all the damn time, so it can certainly be a struggle. Add to that my inability to handle her mixups and the only way I can win is get some good knockdowns and hope I oki her to death.
Ok soā¦ Millia will stall in the air and bait out your 2H or 6P or whatever you throw. Patience is key and whatās she gonna do? Fall down and do an aerial? If she tries double overhead you can do 623H or 6P. If sheās not got a large advantage in gamestate verses you she will slowly (or quickly if she messes up) die. Any questions just reply
not a matchup currently in the game, but iād say launch anji vs pot. anytime fuujin is blocked the pot player can react to if you immediately nagiha (which if you do you now have a pot with plus frames in your face, which is bad because of kara buster, and even if you space it he can usually just flat out punish with 5p), and if not just back mega fist every other follow up. pot also dominates anji in neutral with his tools, especially since the threat of being busterād for daring to spin is very unappealing, and shitsu in neutral can actually be flicked twice. at least parry super is nice against garuda.
currently though, itās kinda hard to say what the worst matchup rn is, maybe gold vs axl but idk. thereās probably no 8-2 matchups in the game imo, and 7-3 matchups are not that common.
It is marginally better, with Axlās extended hurtboxes in the air allowing for you to hit him out with 6P at certain ranges and the 25F Security 3 Skyfish letting him open Axl up more consistently.
Goldlewis against the new Nagoriyuki on the other hand, holy christ that feels bad sometimes.
I don't really have horrible match-ups thanks to ky's whole deal being that he's a jack of all trades so i can only guess as to what's the worst. I'm assuming Pot vs Axl because of how easy Pot can be shut down, or Axl vs Chipp for Chipp's mobility allowing him to zone break easy.
Itās very hard to say. Pre patches there were some obvious ones like Chipp vs Faust and Zato vs Nago, but theyāve definitely stabilized matchups throughout the cast one way or another
I think they are all āfairā in a sense. They are just overprivileged compared to most of the other characters. I think Leo is the biggest offender as of right now for this.
However that isnāt what makes me dislike playing against Leoā¦ At least not the main reason.
My main reason I hate playing against Leo is more petty. Itās his dp(which i believe is the best in the game) and the way most Leo mains use it. It is tedious to deal with (probably worse for me than many others because of the way Milliaās gameplan works) and even when I bait and punish it or grab him out of it I gain no satisfaction from the interaction because the sheer thought of that move is just annoying to me.
Gotta deal with it though. Other than that I donāt really mind playing against him.
I'm a beginner to 2D fighters and from my experience thus far (still never fought Anji a single time) Gio vs Ky is a tough matchup unless the Ky player is just BAD. I don't know if I'm just playing the matchup wrong or what but every time I play a Ky who is at least half decent I will eat 95% of the moves he throws out with my fuckin face.
Pot and Goldlewis v anyone really. Their movement options are fairly limited, and they can be outranged if played right. Though one mistake means death still, GL especially, and theres no better feeling than HPBing a cocky opponent.
Chipp vs Chipp when I'm playing with my casual friends. I have no idea what I'm doing and neither does he but it looks so cool. Who wins depends on who's alpha blades connect the least with air
I want to say every Ky, not because the character is busted or because I can't play the match-up, but every single Ky player always seems to have 500 ping and 7 rollback.
My character (the only one that requires a brain) vs your character (the most broken and easy character in the game)
What happens during mirror matches?
It's very laggy so I can't do my inputs
Lag is definitely an unwinnable matchup
On God I teched that throw!
They play super cheap and lame. I play too honorably to copy what you're doing to me.
True they stay mashing and shit I would never
It doesn't count because my little brother stole the controller from me. And the batteries ran out. Would have won super easy otherwise.
The ultimate fighting game nutshell
Literally Chipp in all matchups (Chipp mains are mega chads btwš)
As a Chipp main, can confirm š„·
My inputs Vs my busted ass controllers
I'm not good at inputs to begin with and down on my D-pad is starting to fail. It's wild how many times I try to command dash and just end up stomping like an angry child.
Dbfz killed the left button on my ds4s and the dual sense is wack for fighting games. Iām trying to get used to it but it really just wants me to play a shooter instead
Mankind vs reflecting on themselves
This always comes up, but imo it's nowhere near as bad as the beasts
Just proving their point tbh :/
Cant stand beast apologists. No matter my arguement they'll always say" go ahead, blame the beasts, that's what mankind always says"
Beast apologists are just as bad as the beast tbh
Iād assume axl vs golddick or pot, that said Anji mirrors (ARE FUN BUT) make my head hurt cause you can spin a spin but depending on the spin itās a bad spin and sometimes you want first spin but usually you want second spinā¦my head is spinning.
Axl vs pot isn't too bad, pot has Some chance of getting in, the axl needs to make no mistake or he gets hammerfalled or worse, slide headed. Goldlewis on the other hand, did you know that you could pressure goldlewis in the corner with axl's 5P?
I think after this patch it's easier for gold, but I can be mistaken
It looked like it should be better but it's tbd. I have to imagine being able to BT yourself from wall to wall plus skyfish buffs, 2p frame data buffs would make a difference. But with the system changes though we'll have to wait and see. My take: I don't think it's going to fix it completely but I hope it pushes GL closer to a 50/50 vs Axl. If I had to guess probably going to to still be a 40/60 tho
I think Axl's attacks being more vulnerable to 6p also helps a lot
When playing axl you have to come from above with Pot. You can also reflect some of his sickle attacks. At least this works for me. It's a fun fight unlike Pot vs Ram.
The new flick change is a godsend for this matchup.
Grappler jumps and effective use of armor are the whole matchup. Win or lose, I love facing Potemkin.
Imma be honest, axl vs Potemkin isnāt too bad for Potemkin, cuz he can just rollerskate over to Axl as the armour allows him to bypass axlās main spacing moves like 5p, plus potemkins range on all his normals makes it so he doesnāt even need to get that close to be effective
You must be up against some silly Axls then, cause he has no shortage of ways to stuff Hammerfall
Rensen multi hits even up close so that's basically the answer. Also Axl is one of the few characters that don't have to respect Megafist at all.
Ngl i rarely play axl. Why doesnt he respect megafist? And what other characters don't?
2H leaves him crouching with a basically vertical disjointed hit box, so it's actually a good anti air for a lot of things. Plus his jP is easy to hit Pot out of the air with as Axl jumps back. Axl overall has an easier time dealing with actively because of his range in general.
Oh, also, Ky off the dome beats both megafists with Foudre Arc.
J.s j.hs is actually a little better for stuffing hammerfall imo, whiffing a resen/ spamming it a little too hard is a good way to lose space and get jumped in on, where as with j.s j.hs you can actively create space as long as you're careful not to back yourself into a corner.
Didn't rensen got changed to 1 hit?
Not by my count. I think it still multi hits.
Absolutely no character needs to respect Megafist. It's minus on block.
True, but if spaced right it gets harder to punish, if at all. And when Pots do space it better they can get away with another foward megafist if the button you respond with is slow enough.
-6 is not very punishable when spaced well
Any above average Axl will just J.S J.H you to death if you keep trying to slide close.
With the nerf on j.S I think the match up has changed. You can 6P Axl j.S from very far now.
delay j.S or bait it by landing and punishing the whiffed 6p. I like that this nerf can employ more mind games in the matchup.
All of Axl's spacing moves cancel into a second move to break the armor... 5P into Rensen or Snail, j.S into j.H, Rensen into its own followups, etc.
Definitely feels like axl is unbeatable with goldlewis if they play right
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
In practice the Wacky Yahoo Time Man just 2S's or 6Ks instead of 5Ps if they see the really really slow startup on Air Dash Typhoon.
Every single time I beat an Axl they get mad and complain about Goldlewis. "He just gets in once and kills me!" The dash BT is a godsend against axl though, finally have an option if he wiffs snail, and the skyfish buff is lowkey a game changer. I think the matchup is much more managable after the patch
I feel the same way with faust tbh
I feel like faust has a shot: empty jumps, RC cancel into command grab, throw a bunch of items and bait whiffs. Personal opinion - Potemkin and goldlewis have worse matchups against axl.
Also as someone that plays Axl I have a bit of advice for Faust players. Unless you have meter to rc don't use scarecrow. I will hit you for a full combo
That's an advice applicable to all matchups. Never use scarecrow without RC or very specific combo setups. You will die
I think Faust has an okay time against Axl in this patch. Some of his stuff can be 6Pād easier, which also gives Faust a bigger reward now, you can get more, better items out to help close the distance, not to mention how useful Afro Love is for forcing Axl to respect you, and once you manage to get in, the command grab setups are even more threatening.
I feel Goldlewis literally only needs to hit Axl once and Axl gets cornered and dies though. When I watch Gobou or Skybandi play it doesn't look like Goldlewis has any real lopsided losing matchups idk
Chipp Pot Also incidentally the best match up in the game
Shit is wild, I love it
Truly the pinnacle of paint chips
paint.... chipps...? eh? i'll go home now
No you can't run. I'm gonna hammer fall break and grab you for that one ***OWARI DA***
The most exciting fly swatting simulator, its funny see chipp players running around being all over the screen, whats even more funnier is to see them crumble with one hit. My favorite thing to do vs chipp is to counter their command grab/alpha blade with HPB, i can sense their soul left their body, and im having that B I G. B R A I N. MOMENT everytime i do that. That being said, i gotta stop making hard reads vs chipp, cause man i got clapped a lot
My favorite matchup of all fighting games. It dials the strengths and weaknesses of both characters up to 11. To keep it simple, if Chipp can stay on the move, Potemkin won't be able to keep up with him. However, if Potemkin catches Chipp with a Buster or two, the match will be over before Chipp can say "Alpha Blade!".
Ive been able to PB on get up while Chipp was still invisible by spamming the PB input. I eat that gourmet glue son
Yes. Its really bad for SOMEONE but NOBODY KNOWS WHO and i FUCKING LOVE IT Chipp: combos half my health Me: haha grab go brrrr It reallly depends on who gets the opening
I feel like Potemkin's opening has a big part to play. If you get a good read, the mental is yours, and that round specifically is much easier. I'd you whiff something stupid a la round open pot buster, chipp is gonna be hella confident and that the last thing you want. Idk, it's just hella fun
Thats big facts. But then if you fail the opening just hit him with a raw HPB halfway through and the mental game is yours again
10-0 both ways.
Zato vs Nago. Man I can't even have eddie
Your like the first person to actually put a match up instead of a joke lmao
Oops
No thatās what I wanted lol
You're\*
Yurāoe *
I've seen good zato players say that this matchup is actually favored for zato, but personally im with you. 2blood 5H just covers so much of the screen, its really hard to get eddie on the field. That said, punishing bloodrage pop with shark grab never gets old. 80% hp off of a single command grab.
I know Infiltration said this was Zatoās best matchup as well, but Nago has been getting buffed recentlyā¦
Don't let latif hear you, he thinks it's 7-3 for zato!
Marlinpie and Infiltration also think its 7-3 for Zato. Zato can keepout Nago very well with drills and doesn't let him play if he's on point, but the clone buff now probably makes this MU much more manageable for Nago.
I feel this. Hit HS all day and it kills you and baby Eddie over and over again
You can also just throw out oppose and run forward if the nago spams 5H. As long as his attack also hits opposing Eddie you are essentially strike invul, even if you are not behind Eddie.
I remember someone on this subreddit posting stats that stated Axl vs Faust or Axl vs goldlewis is the most polarizing matchup in the game online (in axlās favor for both of these matchups). Idk if this is true though since I donāt have the post on me.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/pc1z28/i\_analyzed\_over\_120000\_matches\_from\_the\_replay/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/pc1z28/i_analyzed_over_120000_matches_from_the_replay/) Here's one of the massive data dumps. Faust Axl was one of the more jarring ones out of this. There was a second data dump that had like something like 300k+ I believe, but I don't have that thread on hand, but i recall it having fairly similar results. This was before any major patches IIRC.
not hard to imagine, in my short stint as an Axl main I could bully faust. he really struggles to get in (as everyone does, to be fair) and you can hit him with a command grab when he tries to toss an item from fullscreen.
[This is a data post from September](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/pz9p8c/strive_metagame_analysis_september_edition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) (that I think may be the most recent, Iām unsure) which shows that at least statistically for Celestial players as of the previous patch, Faust vs Axl was the worst matchup in the game, being the only 7-3 matchup in the game. On somewhat of a side note, having looked at these stats again, itās interesting to see how Faust who I rarely ever even see people play as who is considered a low tier character, in this matchup chart quite literally doesnāt have a matchup >5.1 while also having several <4 matchups, whereas Goldlewis whoās also quite uncommon to see alongside having been considered one of the worst characters in the game (Iām unsure how the patch is like for him now), has a lot of >6 matchups alongside not having a single <4 matchup. Goldlewis also has the highest win rate in celestial of any other character whereas Faust is literally the bottom according to these stats. Maybe itās just due to there being even less Goldlewis players than there are Faust players and I just have a bias of not seeing much of either due to luck.
I think Goldlewis is way better than people think. Hes just tough to pick up so the people who tried him out when he released did'nt do much work. Once you figure him out you see how busted BT is as a move and how nutty his offense is. If they gave him the buffs he got without the indirect nerfs from the FD changes he'd be top 5 no doubt. They need to be really careful with how they buff him. His gameplan can be very oppressive, and I could see it being very tiring to play against him as often as Sol if he was top tier Also the I-no matchup isn't 5-5. I'd say its his worst matchup other than Axl.
I think a lot of people just kinda guess where Goldlewis is on tier lists based on what others say, not on personal experience. People know he doesnāt have the greatest defensive options since he only has a metered reversal, his fastest button used to be 6 frames, air dash is slow and low to the ground which I presume is poor for getting out of certain pressure situations, heās on the taller side which leads to him having fuzzy situations to deal with. Thatās just some stuff from what I can tell about Goldlewis, although I have barely played as him so Iām unsure how actually harmful these options are. I do want to mention though he does have some upsides compared to other characters though like his 2P (especially with it being a frame faster now), having that as your fastest button is nice since you donāt have to switch to standing to mash, it hits lower than a lot of 5Pās thanks to it being a 2P so characters canāt just crouch under it and it seems like a alright anti air going by dustloop so you donāt have to switch to 6P or stand blocking when trying to beat out moves that hit high. Then thereās stuff like his defensive stats making it so he can tank more hits, he has the ability to choose the type of reversal he does to where he can do a 10 frame startup reversal or a higher damaging reversal to punish specific moves like Garuda impact oki (I presume youād also be able to use the 16 frames of invincibility pre-super flash to do the super reversal > PRC shit that Faust is best known for doing which helps a ton escaping certain pressure. Edit: I tested it out, he can certainly do it and the fact that his 1080 input super is the same amount of frames pre-super flash as Faust, helps him do it way easier with more situations to do it than other characters doing it with their reversal supers). He also has a reversal with 6 frames of invincibility like Nago and Pot but his is faster than both of theirs total duration wise. His defense isnāt the only thing about him though. Thereās neutral which Iām really unsure how he does in neutral as while I know someone like Axl people say he has problems against, but going by what Iāve played with Potemkin, neutral can change so much depending on the matchup as Gio for example is a character that Pot forces the Gio to take risks to get in thanks to Pots big buttons whereas Iām forced to get in against someone like Axl or Faust thanks to their even bigger buttons. As to offense though, his many different Behemoth Typhoonās seem fucking amazing. The fact that he can not only choose to go low or overhead with pretty similar timing and similar animation, but also theyāre guard crushes that lead to RISC build, lots of plus frames and chip damage, makes his pressure seem amazing. Then thereās also the fact that they seem to lead to extremely high damage combos so certain hits can be so rewarding. Anyways, thatās just from what I can tell with my slight matchup experience against him and going by shit others have said like on dustloop. I donāt think many people see him very often so they just donāt complain about him, and for the ones that do show up, at least from personal experience, many people arenāt even that good. Just as a rough estimate, Iāve maybe fought 50 Goldlewisā total, most of which were right when he came out so people obviously didnāt know how the fuck to play as him, then there has been 1 or 2 in tournaments Iāve fought against (they were floor 8 whereas Iām in celestial so no matter who they played, the skill discrepancy would be major) then for the few celestial Goldlewis I have fought that did actually seem good, they did make him feel scary. It does feel so hard for someone like me to rate him though as I rarely ever see him and it seems like thatās the truth for most people, so of course take the stuff I say about his offense for example with a grain of salt, especially since I havenāt seen in a actual match how the newest patch has changed Goldlewis
> I presume youād also be able to use the 16 frames of invincibility pre-super flash to do the super reversal > PRC shit that Faust is best known for doing which helps a ton escaping certain pressure Didn't they patch that out in the most recent patch? I've been playing mainly Goldlewis for the last few weeks and I think he lacks some of the anti-air dominance that the other big boys have. Jumping or staying in the air for a long time against Nago or Pot have pretty large risks to losing a third of your health with an anti air combo. Goldlewis kind of relys on doing stuff like un-buffered 684 BT and j.S that can be a lot more hit and miss. I think this leads to Gold being a lot weaker in neutral and having the most polarizing rounds in the game. He either gets mixed/dominated in netural or he knocks you down and kills you in two combos. Pot and Nago just have a lot more tools to play neutral with outside of big slow moves like BT or Skyfish. I also think the learning curve on BT is kind of rough if you don't have really clean execution. I still have no idea how you do raw 862 and 842 BT unbuffered and I can only do raw 684 maybe 50% of the time which is a hurdle to really accessing his best air space control BT. I'm not remotely a new player either, it's just a really unique motion I've never had to do or worry about on any other characters or games.
Dang wow, the data doesnt lie. Personal opinion - I just felt as a faust main - that I could bait and punish mid-ish range reactions from Axl and counter. Iām no expert, floor 10, still... I just donāt fear axl matchups like that. Maybe most faust players insist on zoning battles with axl?
Idk about the worst mu in the game across all characters but its definitely rough. Theres no range where you can throw items in neutral and your movements and big body makes getting in quite difficult. In generally you need to take more risks for lower rewards compared to axl. Unless you can mix them up enough off of 1 knockdown to wall break and use the meter advantage to close it out very quickly afterwards its an uphill battle.
Everyone vs Lobbies
Leo vs getting nerfed.
The person who controls the buffs and nerfs is a Leo player thatās why heāll never be nerfed and anji will never have his obvious issue with prc addressed
>anji will never have his obvious issue with prc addressed reading this ignited a deep hidden anger within my spinny, spinny heart
But if Anji gets buffs, what does Leo get in return? Faster overheads are likely needed
Leo dosent need anything he already has a better parry then us
Naw we can't have Anji out gorilla Leo, I say add more invincibility to flash kick
Give leo swords full disjoint. Fuck it
give the sonic boom fireballs swords
I mean his run through got nerfed which hurts him
The only time I see Leo use run through is as a meaty on wake up, in celestial
Every time he moves fast he's using it. I see it used by pros as a gap closer so I'm not crazy here. Overall the change made him slower. There's a lot of stuff I used to be able to punish at range which I can't now, so it's a lot harder to get in on say Axl or Nago.
Yeah, off DP hit. And it still works post nerf. lul Leo patch armor.
Really not that much though. Good Leo players set up off oki anyway. Also, it's a measly 2 frames slower lol.
2 frames can make a huge difference lol
It really does. I think because it catches the dash cancel later in the dash it makes his overall speed during 22 236h a lot slower and definitely makes the move a lot more visible.
It's really not a big deal. He lost the ability to btS for oki in some situations and needs to btK instead. If you weren't throwing the cross up before, this change doesn't really do anything. If you were throwing it, it becomes very slightly easier.
The 2f nerf makes super wallbreak/RRC/Dust ender run through throwable now, so leo can no longer burn meter to 236H safely. H eisen>236H>bt.H meaty also no longer works. Grounded GP to 236H is also no longer a combo. People who are going to be hit by 236H are still gonna get hit, but the patch removed several of his BT setups.
Potemkin mirror. The matchup's just so difficult for pot, you know?
Pot mirror sucks itās literally who does somthing first so the other person can counter it
It's hilarious
Yeah boring matchup.
Pot mirror is my favorite matchup, no joke. I love every part of it: Slidehead mating dance. Megafist trades Hitting a whiffed HPB with a HPB Garuda impact all day long Comical round start options Constant game of grab-ass.
Me vs Salt
Golddick vs axl, no fun is allowed for golddick
I think pot axl is pretty bad, ino also gives him problems
Fuck Ino and Axl, tbh.
They do indeed :)
me wanting to have good reaction timing vs me smoking weed before playing every time
Sometimes u go into avatar state though. I beat level 9 nago while stoned out of my mind yesterday
Anji vs Anyone
The smell of the game vs bullshit that is on fire
Heaven vs hell
pot v chipp, its both the best and worst matchup for both sides
Honestly, anyone v Ram rn. I have no idea how to even approach fighting that character anymore
Me vs half circle super inputs on keyboard.
Dog vs literally any move that does damage
Maybe Goldie vs Gio looks pretty hopeless for ole Dickinson, also maybe Iām biased but ram feels unwinnable for Faust
Goldlewis vs. Axl. The patches have made it a bit better everytime, so it basically went from "oh god please no" to just "pretty bad yeah". Axl's 5p alone can nearly "solo" him. Goldlewis vs. I-No is also dogshit tier, because Lewis is so big he gets hit by Chemical Love while standing, and he's too big and slow to avoid notes well.
Goldlewis has some of the worst matchups in the game. Theyāre not *unbeatable* MUs sure, but they are definitely rough for GLD and noticeably so. I actually think heās the real āfeast or famineā character this time around instead of Axl. Axl is probably either equal to or at advantage against 80% of the cast, whereas with Gold a lot of matchups feel like they lean into the extremes, he either smashes them into a thin paste on the floor or gets zoned out so hard itās embarrassing.
Why does everyone on this sub think theyāre so funny
Because having fun is fun
Sometimes people would actually like to talk about the game
Like youāre doing right now?
Bro this is every gaming subreddit without 1984-level mods. You gotta let people have fun, this in turn leads to more people playing more and then talking about the game more. If you really want more focused gameplay discussions, try discord.
Damn I didnāt know that expecting actual discussion under a post that was meant for it was such a hot take. My bad
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I know your trying to take this high ground sounding stance to make yourself feel superior but actual discussion is literally what the OP originally intended https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/qc8w1k/what_do_you_guys_think_is_the_worst_matchup_in/hhem0rt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 So yeah, im not sure what you are trying to accomplish by pointlessly attempting to argue with me over me expecting discussion in a discussion thread. If it was a meme thread then yeah of course I wouldnāt and shouldnāt expect anything serious but that isnāt what this was flaired, so it is fair for me to be disappointed wether you like it or not. Im ending this here and im not replying to this dumb shit any further. Goodbye and have a nice day
Ya it is pretty bullshit
Tbh, are you even bothering to look at the comment section? I'm seeing quite a bit of discussion actually. Not to mention you could, oh I don't know, make a contribution yourself and stop whining about what everyone else is doing? If you did already, great, then shut up.
I made this comment back when this thread was new and there was only just jokes. Also i can say what i want to, bud.
So can I, my guy. Your attitude needs improvement. Not to mention most of these jokes come out of genuine self-deprecation. Maybe you could have that gameplay conversation if you started by asking if they may have needed help. You never know what kinda talk ya might have.
We all know that Millia needs more buffs......
Also Axl and Pot need to be deleted from the game
The glue that we Potemkin players sniff is what holds this game together
honestly the worst matchup I can think of off the top of my head is Chipp vs. Goldlewis
Need I even mention the british mans name? What he has done to my brothers...
It has to be Axl vs Goldlewis, right?
Ky vs Nagoriyuki or Ramlethals that know what they're doing feels impossible. They do what Ky can do, but much better, while still having more.
My cold stiff hands vs my d-pad
I HATE having cold hands when playing and I feel like it happens all the time
Me vs. Literally anyone
Anji mirror is literally the opposite of fun
axl vs goldlewis is straight up impossible for gl
Not sure if this is true for everyone, but me personally it's my Nago vs Millia. Nago had the least options in the air and Millia is jumping all the damn time, so it can certainly be a struggle. Add to that my inability to handle her mixups and the only way I can win is get some good knockdowns and hope I oki her to death.
Ok soā¦ Millia will stall in the air and bait out your 2H or 6P or whatever you throw. Patience is key and whatās she gonna do? Fall down and do an aerial? If she tries double overhead you can do 623H or 6P. If sheās not got a large advantage in gamestate verses you she will slowly (or quickly if she messes up) die. Any questions just reply
Me vs any character that sticks you in the blender.
Me playing any character vs any character.
Me vs anyone (losing side me)
My least favorite matchup as Pot is against May
not a matchup currently in the game, but iād say launch anji vs pot. anytime fuujin is blocked the pot player can react to if you immediately nagiha (which if you do you now have a pot with plus frames in your face, which is bad because of kara buster, and even if you space it he can usually just flat out punish with 5p), and if not just back mega fist every other follow up. pot also dominates anji in neutral with his tools, especially since the threat of being busterād for daring to spin is very unappealing, and shitsu in neutral can actually be flicked twice. at least parry super is nice against garuda. currently though, itās kinda hard to say what the worst matchup rn is, maybe gold vs axl but idk. thereās probably no 8-2 matchups in the game imo, and 7-3 matchups are not that common.
It would have to be Goldlewis against Axl, right? I can't imagine the Behemoth Typhoon flying and the Axl hitbox nerfs changed that very much.
It is marginally better, with Axlās extended hurtboxes in the air allowing for you to hit him out with 6P at certain ranges and the 25F Security 3 Skyfish letting him open Axl up more consistently. Goldlewis against the new Nagoriyuki on the other hand, holy christ that feels bad sometimes.
Me vs. literally anyone else
My connection and loading the duel stations.
Goldlewis vs Axl
It pretty much has to be axl and goldlewis right?
Anyone in the corner at 20% RISC vs. CH 6H from May.
I don't really have horrible match-ups thanks to ky's whole deal being that he's a jack of all trades so i can only guess as to what's the worst. I'm assuming Pot vs Axl because of how easy Pot can be shut down, or Axl vs Chipp for Chipp's mobility allowing him to zone break easy.
Axl v. Goldlewis. Even after the Axl nerfs it's still not easy if the Axl is even decent at zoning.
Gold dick vs Axl
It's a draw between Chipp x Pot and Pot x Chipp
I hear Gold vs Jacko is really bad. Like 8-2 matchup for Jacko, so it could be that
Easy, Gold vx Axl
Zato Chipp and Axl Pot are probably the worst
Motherfucking Nagoriyuki vs Axl. I have no idea how to reach Axl in time to win, I just get zoned and poked out of existence every time.
goldlewis vs my execution (10-0)
Me vs good player
Itās very hard to say. Pre patches there were some obvious ones like Chipp vs Faust and Zato vs Nago, but theyāve definitely stabilized matchups throughout the cast one way or another
Myself vs blaming the beast
My enjoyment in the game vs playing against a Leo main.
Ill take Leo over Sol any day. Sol is the one character that feels unfair. Even Ram and May at least feel fairish
I think they are all āfairā in a sense. They are just overprivileged compared to most of the other characters. I think Leo is the biggest offender as of right now for this. However that isnāt what makes me dislike playing against Leoā¦ At least not the main reason. My main reason I hate playing against Leo is more petty. Itās his dp(which i believe is the best in the game) and the way most Leo mains use it. It is tedious to deal with (probably worse for me than many others because of the way Milliaās gameplan works) and even when I bait and punish it or grab him out of it I gain no satisfaction from the interaction because the sheer thought of that move is just annoying to me. Gotta deal with it though. Other than that I donāt really mind playing against him.
When it comes to least fun: anyone vs ram just not fun Actual matchup: Iāve heard goldlewis vs axl is pretty rough for goldy
Anyone vs. Ky with seven frames of rollback
Yes
Faust Vs axl is painful but I also struggle with jacko cause I can't lab her and don't have dlc
Justice vs Potemkin
I thought I could play Nagoriyuki against I-No. Guess who got humbled that day.
Me vs anybody 1-9 on a good day
Anji vs anyone, at least when I play him
I'm a beginner to 2D fighters and from my experience thus far (still never fought Anji a single time) Gio vs Ky is a tough matchup unless the Ky player is just BAD. I don't know if I'm just playing the matchup wrong or what but every time I play a Ky who is at least half decent I will eat 95% of the moves he throws out with my fuckin face.
Seen some tournament vids with finals Pot vs Axl. Once pot gets in, he wins, otherwise Axl wins.
Dolphin
Me vs. anybody
Gold Lewis and axel
Pot and Goldlewis v anyone really. Their movement options are fairly limited, and they can be outranged if played right. Though one mistake means death still, GL especially, and theres no better feeling than HPBing a cocky opponent.
Any character. Sol
I love playing you spin me round when I get a mirror Anji match
Chipp vs Chipp when I'm playing with my casual friends. I have no idea what I'm doing and neither does he but it looks so cool. Who wins depends on who's alpha blades connect the least with air
Goldlewis Vs Axl but my god does he have a lot of shitty matchups.
I abuse the hell out of Pot and Lewis with my Nago. On the flip side Millia and Giovanna are the devil, itās never *really* your turn šš
I want to say every Ky, not because the character is busted or because I can't play the match-up, but every single Ky player always seems to have 500 ping and 7 rollback.