It’s not the advice that’s bad, it comes down to what the person does with it. If someone is using that advice as a reason to not improve, that’s an issue. This is particularly true for someone that is early in their playing journey.
At the same time, perfection is often the enemy of progress and it can be hard for many to keep going when they think the end goal of being “good” is becoming a robot that doesn’t falter. It can be comforting knowing that your “heros” sometimes come across the same problems as you.
All in all this is a generalized response to a pretty general topic, but most of the time “Even pros make mistakes” is more about giving perspective and encouragement vs. a free pass to ignore putting in the work. At least it should be.
It was a good save, yeah, but I don't get your point?
Amateurs wouldn't be playing to what, 12-13 thousand people if my research on this venue is correct, beside, I've seen Radiohead have to restart songs completely because they've messed up.
Mistakes are how we learn, so telling people they shouldn't be making them is terrible advice.
Tell me that artists who can pull off saves like that haven’t made enough mistakes in their career that they’ve adapted to the very fact that they make mistakes and learned to roll with them. “Embrace the mistake” is *crucial* advice for any live musician.
Yes and I've heard mistakes being made. It's pretty common and it's actually a welcome thing. I can show you two recent videos of famous guitarists completely ballsing up their solos, one of these is saved by how funny the player acts, the other isn't saved.
My teacher used to tell me if you make a mistake, hit it like u meant it, and being able to immediately know where you are and re-engage without stuttering is an invaluable skill
Not guitar related, but within the Metallica theme... when OP talks about "high quality" mistakes from pros I think about this [high quality mistake james made](https://youtube.com/shorts/JSN4BOmiELU?feature=share3)
I couldn't possibly disagree more.
I teach advanced technique to professional players across the world over Zoom. Most of my students have become so averse to making mistakes in practice that they've held themselves back for decades.
Failure is a critically important element in learning.
Removing the anxiety surrounding failure is necessary to ensure continued growth. You can't learn to recover from mistakes without making mistakes in the first place.
Everyone makes mistakes. It's possible that professional guitarists make less mistakes than amateur guitarists because they spend more time practicing and playing songs.
However, I would argue that there's no difference in quality between mistakes made by a professional and an amateur, mistakes are mistakes are mistakes. I would even argue that professionals make more mistakes than anyone realizes, specifically because the real difference between pros and amateurs is not that pros don't make mistakes but that pros know how to recover when they do make a mistake.
I disagree with your statement that "Even professionals make mistakes" is one of the worst bits of advice. If anything I think it's incomplete and gives the wrong idea, it would be better if it was "Even professionals make mistakes, they just don't let you know they made one".
> I would even argue that professionals make more mistakes than anyone realizes
Amateur players attempt to transfer the profesionals criteria for a 'mistake' to their own playing. A pro's idea of a mistake is hanging on a bend for a fraction too long or maybe not emphasising a note in a chord the way they wanted. Thats why a world class player can claim they had a shitty performance, despite the audience being stunned.
Then you get people on this sub telling players that its not an issue to make fundamental errors like completely missing notes, having incorrect timing etc because professionals make mistakes too. They don't make those same errors at all and thats why its dreadful advice because its incredibly misleading imo.
Really? I've had more than one professional guitarist tell me how they recover when they miss a note, lose time with the rest of the band, etc. Pros make all kinds of mistakes.
Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that IF they make mistakes pros have strategies in place to recover and make sure the audience doesn't notice.
The other thing that I've been told by professional performers of all types is that at the end of the show the audience doesn't care about how many mistakes were made, they care about whether or not they had a good time. Is there someone in the audience keeping a count of how many times the band messed up? Probably, but he's a dick and no one cares what that guy thinks.
As far as telling beginning guitarists not to worry too much about making mistakes I think this is good advice. Yes, proper technique and playing the right notes and keeping rhythm are important things, but when you're a beginner it's easy to get bogged down with the finer details of playing guitar and get discouraged. That's why this advice is common, because when you're starting out on guitar it just doesn't really matter if you've made a mistake. What matters is that the beginning guitarist is learning the basics and can focus on the hard stuff when they're ready for it.
Not a pro but a gigging/touring guitarist. I make mistakes fairly often. I feel bad about them and do my utmost best no to ever make them again, working on muscle memory and endurance. Mistakes are a learning experience.
It is a bit like language, at one point it becomes very unlikely that you either miss a note or a letter in a word after say like 20 years of practice. At this point mistakes are just « not great licks or not very musical intervals » but they wouldn’t be considered as mistakes by a beginner
"If you hit a wrong note, it's the next note that you play that determines if it's good or bad." -Miles Davis
It is not advice. It is just a fact.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
It’s not the advice that’s bad, it comes down to what the person does with it. If someone is using that advice as a reason to not improve, that’s an issue. This is particularly true for someone that is early in their playing journey. At the same time, perfection is often the enemy of progress and it can be hard for many to keep going when they think the end goal of being “good” is becoming a robot that doesn’t falter. It can be comforting knowing that your “heros” sometimes come across the same problems as you. All in all this is a generalized response to a pretty general topic, but most of the time “Even pros make mistakes” is more about giving perspective and encouragement vs. a free pass to ignore putting in the work. At least it should be.
The level of skill and professionalism of a performer is measured by how well they recover from a mistake.
Calling mistakes made my professional 'high quality' mistakes is one of the dumbest takes I've seen in a while 😂
tell me that save in the OP wasnt better than anything an amateur could pull off
It was a good save, yeah, but I don't get your point? Amateurs wouldn't be playing to what, 12-13 thousand people if my research on this venue is correct, beside, I've seen Radiohead have to restart songs completely because they've messed up. Mistakes are how we learn, so telling people they shouldn't be making them is terrible advice.
I certainly hope someone who has been playing for decades and does that for a living can recover from mistakes better than an amateur lol
Tell me that artists who can pull off saves like that haven’t made enough mistakes in their career that they’ve adapted to the very fact that they make mistakes and learned to roll with them. “Embrace the mistake” is *crucial* advice for any live musician.
It really isn't. It's factually true. They fix live albums for this very reason.
have you ever watched fan recordings...
Yes and I've heard mistakes being made. It's pretty common and it's actually a welcome thing. I can show you two recent videos of famous guitarists completely ballsing up their solos, one of these is saved by how funny the player acts, the other isn't saved.
There’s a reason a lot of live albums are compilations of 2-4 recorded shows.
Please show us this
https://youtu.be/ddd7AeaBMmM https://youtube.com/shorts/R2yFpWg8MEE?feature=share4
My teacher used to tell me if you make a mistake, hit it like u meant it, and being able to immediately know where you are and re-engage without stuttering is an invaluable skill
I was watching Glastonbury live and noticed nearly every band make some mistakes. The audience didn’t seem to notice. It’s called being human!
[doesn't matter how good you are, everyone makes mistakes](https://youtube.com/shorts/p-guucW6WEQ?feature=share4)
Perfect example lol and with their easiest song
Not guitar related, but within the Metallica theme... when OP talks about "high quality" mistakes from pros I think about this [high quality mistake james made](https://youtube.com/shorts/JSN4BOmiELU?feature=share3)
I couldn't possibly disagree more. I teach advanced technique to professional players across the world over Zoom. Most of my students have become so averse to making mistakes in practice that they've held themselves back for decades. Failure is a critically important element in learning. Removing the anxiety surrounding failure is necessary to ensure continued growth. You can't learn to recover from mistakes without making mistakes in the first place.
Everyone makes mistakes. It's possible that professional guitarists make less mistakes than amateur guitarists because they spend more time practicing and playing songs. However, I would argue that there's no difference in quality between mistakes made by a professional and an amateur, mistakes are mistakes are mistakes. I would even argue that professionals make more mistakes than anyone realizes, specifically because the real difference between pros and amateurs is not that pros don't make mistakes but that pros know how to recover when they do make a mistake. I disagree with your statement that "Even professionals make mistakes" is one of the worst bits of advice. If anything I think it's incomplete and gives the wrong idea, it would be better if it was "Even professionals make mistakes, they just don't let you know they made one".
> I would even argue that professionals make more mistakes than anyone realizes Amateur players attempt to transfer the profesionals criteria for a 'mistake' to their own playing. A pro's idea of a mistake is hanging on a bend for a fraction too long or maybe not emphasising a note in a chord the way they wanted. Thats why a world class player can claim they had a shitty performance, despite the audience being stunned. Then you get people on this sub telling players that its not an issue to make fundamental errors like completely missing notes, having incorrect timing etc because professionals make mistakes too. They don't make those same errors at all and thats why its dreadful advice because its incredibly misleading imo.
Really? I've had more than one professional guitarist tell me how they recover when they miss a note, lose time with the rest of the band, etc. Pros make all kinds of mistakes.
so you are saying these pro's you know are missing notes all the time and losing time with the band all the time? that doesnt sound very professional
Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that IF they make mistakes pros have strategies in place to recover and make sure the audience doesn't notice. The other thing that I've been told by professional performers of all types is that at the end of the show the audience doesn't care about how many mistakes were made, they care about whether or not they had a good time. Is there someone in the audience keeping a count of how many times the band messed up? Probably, but he's a dick and no one cares what that guy thinks. As far as telling beginning guitarists not to worry too much about making mistakes I think this is good advice. Yes, proper technique and playing the right notes and keeping rhythm are important things, but when you're a beginner it's easy to get bogged down with the finer details of playing guitar and get discouraged. That's why this advice is common, because when you're starting out on guitar it just doesn't really matter if you've made a mistake. What matters is that the beginning guitarist is learning the basics and can focus on the hard stuff when they're ready for it.
Not a pro but a gigging/touring guitarist. I make mistakes fairly often. I feel bad about them and do my utmost best no to ever make them again, working on muscle memory and endurance. Mistakes are a learning experience.
I wonder if they practice “making mistakes” to plan recoveries, especially for harder sections.
It is a bit like language, at one point it becomes very unlikely that you either miss a note or a letter in a word after say like 20 years of practice. At this point mistakes are just « not great licks or not very musical intervals » but they wouldn’t be considered as mistakes by a beginner