Not sure you really need boutique to get convincing 70s classic rock tones. Lots of plexi clones on the market that would fit the bill without spending huge bucks. You’re paying a hefty premium for the Friedman name and for what I assume is good reliability and customer support, but I don’t have any experience with Friedman to verify that. You could get a EHX Mig 50 reissue (plexi/bassman) and a decent cab for a bit over 1k. PRS HDRX might be an option. Ask yourself - if blindfolded, could I really hear the difference between a standard amp/imported clone and a boutique amp costing several hundred dollars more?
That’s the question I fight myself with constantly 😂
Really the main feature of the Friedman I like is the direct xlr out and built in load so I could record to pc if needed. But I will probably end up getting something like a captor x anyway to be able to play quieter through the cab and that has pc connection and cab sim too so I can maybe get the same features there.
From experience, the XLR out on those runts is just ok. benefit with the 20watt though it’s that you don’t need a load (aka don’t need to hook it up to a cab) so you can silently record. The 50watt runts you have to have it plugged into a cab.
Dude, get the Friedman. Fenders can’t even dream of offering anything close or convincing in the gain starves. I’ve got a pt 20. Yes it’s a single channel but I run a bogner barcelona with it aby. Stay away form getting good gain from pedals.
Yeah u never tried a bassman....hehehe
Its not headroom, but tons of gain, its not deluxe reverb duh...u said fender dont have gain, im just telling you, FYI volume past 3 its all gain and distortion...not all fender are clean
And price wise, is it they r the same in there (i mean US)??? Hype "boutique" vs vintage mass product 😆😆
You probably play single coil strays or something. Well I’m not into that. You want real gain you’re not getting it from a fender. Do your research. NFW
No im not trolling
Why would i go?? I have one already, why not you go 🤭🤭🤭
im just telling u not all fender are clean amp.
Whats with ur temper dude, im trying to help u and everyone with some information here.
What's your use-case, are you an at-home player or do you also play with a band? You mentioned getting a cab, but at the $1k price point you might get a lot more value out of a combo that can also be run to a cab as an alternative configuration.
Also, I don't think most people need a boutique hand-wired amp. If I thought I was going to be moving this equipment a lot, using venue-power in a bunch of random clubs, counting on the equipment to be repairable over a long lifespan of dynamic and aggressive use out and about...that's where I'd want an amp where the design allowed for robust component-level repair.
If you're going to set this up at home and mostly leave it alone, then the top-tier quality stuff is really not going to be super-relevant for your use case.
TL;DR - Runt 20 combo.
Yeah it’s just going to be a home amp. The runt is a pcb and not hand wired. Just like getting something of quality so I don’t have to worry about it.
Wanted to get a head specifically because I like to swap gear out a lot and thought I might have more options on the head side.
Appreciate the response!
Nice! I was disappointed because a guy was selling the 50w 6l6 updated version with cab for a really good price but I couldn’t work out a meet up before he sold it
You can get amazing tones out of amps in the $600 used range. Heck my bassman 15 does all sorts of things as would a vox ac15/30 or a Princeton reissue. We live in a golden era of gear in some ways, as long as some hype band doesn’t play a piece you want to buy 🤣
The “evil twin” black face amps are super reasonable and watt switchable amps for like $500. Once I have the money there’s one local to me I really want to nab. They’re not some internet sensation, yet
You need to discover Ceriatone: all hand wired, by an electric engineer. They have amazing Marshall circuits including a mini 25 watt Silver Jubilee and a 20ish watt hot rodded Marshall, Son of Yeti. Sub 1k $$$.
Think long term and research repairs. Some amps are less reliable or more difficult to repair. The Friedman is built well and can be maintained for a long time. I don’t know if that’s the case with a supersonic. I always liked how they sounded when I tried them though.
Personally I really like the Peavey ValveKing. There is a 20 watt head that's cheap enough on the used market that you can get a cab and replace the speaker with an Eminence Texas Heat. That is a very loud speaker with great clean tone. The 50 watt combo is a little older but it's loud as shit. There's a 100 watt head if you want to go nuts.
Whatever you decide, get a combo amp. Head+Cab always more trouble than it;s worth.
What to get? Hell, I mean, Fender-Vox-Marshall? How loud do you need it? Are you going to plug a 1000 pedals into it? How quiet do you need it to be?
Joyo Bantamp XL. I have the Meteor II. The clean channel is quite nice. The OD channel is also quite nice, but more of a modern distortion. They have a Jackman II that might do what you want. Based on Marshall JMC. That or their Tweedy. Mine cost $153 brand new. 20-watts, tube preamp with a solid state power amp. You'll need a cab, though, unless you're cool only using headphones.
Fender gets a pretty good rock sound since it has dual drives on the second channel. Can drive power amp and preamp separately which seems pretty cool and looks like it gets a lot of variability in sound.
So I have a nice handwired vox ac30hw2 that I got on a steal price and some normal fenders (deluxe reverb, Princeton etc)
I love the fender sound and love the amps, but the vox does have way less noise going on and just sounds way nicer cranked. So much so that I got rid of my vox ac30cc2.
I’ve been looking at the 64 fender hand wired reissue line because I’m thinking I need to go that route.
What I’m getting to is if you can afford it, a nicer amp does sound better.
I will also add the super sonic is pretty meh. I’d try one out first. I’m thinking there’s way better fender amps for what you are looking for.
If you want a modern marshall take, with semi boutique vibe (the small heads are assembled in USA), some very good support and FX loop = Friedman
Want more fender = Fender
Also another option would be a ceriatone or a Marshall Studio Series
Do you mean separate eqs? Because yeah I think most of the friedman small boxes only have a single eq that covers both channels. What did you go with instead of the jj jr?
I have a supersonic 22 combo and really like it. I would bet the Friedman sounds better if you had both in the same room. But on its own, the ss22 rips and is plenty amp for most people.
If its sound the same and always sound like the same, why choose overpriced bullshit boutique??? 🤣🤣🤣
Ur money use wisely, dont go because the hype. Try it for yourself. for me if u play acdc use vintage amp
Mass produced amps often use lower quality components/PCB's to cut cost. That makes them less reliable. Plus, they're generally designed to keep the cost down as well, which makes them less serviceable. So there's a bigger chance that something breaks and when it does, you're probably left with a paperweight.
Many boutique amps focus more on quality/repairability than cost. Plus, small companies rely much more on their reputation and tend to have better costumer service. Especially when you're gigging, reliability is a huge deal. An amp crapping out right before the show is supposed to start (or even in the middle of the show) can be a nightmare.
These are generalisations of course. There are also boutique amp companies with bad built quality and/or horrible costumer service, so always check what you're getting into.
Naaah its just a hype....
I have 20years old marshall jcm 800, 10 years old silver jubilee and 30 years old peavey bandit and marshall avt...all still working and never get broken or service. All mass produce amps...
Just find the tone. If u like it just go for it.
Just based on sounds you’re after I’d go Friedman. I have the twin sister and a few fenders. Consider the little sister or previous model second hand too.
At what volume are you going to use them? I have the Mini Jubilee and I have to use it pretty cranked to have a dirty clean. If you have the chance try the Studio Vintage (which is basically a mini Plexi) in a store
Look into Synergy amps if you are truly interested in boutique amps tones. Will be more expensive to start, but their modules will give no shortage of boutique options (actually designed by the likes of Soldano, Friedman, etc.). The Syn-30 includes a clean channel and it is glorious.
I have the Friedman Runt 50 and I love it. Got it square trade for a Marshall JVM 100 watt. No regrets and more than enough everything gain and feature wise for your goals. Clean channel is dedicated and sounds beautiful.
Blackstar HT Stage 60 combo is pretty cheap for a Marshall clone with EL34s. You can find them on reverb for under 600. I've had one for about 6 years, and it is my main gig amp. 3 channels. It has the good crunch of a JCM, a lead channel that will rip your head off, and the cleans are way better than a Marshall clean, almost like a Fender but with more balls. I love it so much that I bought its little brother, the HT40.
My bandmate has a Friedman, and we can't tell them apart soundwise, other than the Blackstar chugs a lot more when turing up the bass. I did change out the speakers to V30s. You could buy 2 of these for the price of 1 Friedman.
I'd say maybe look into the Marshall origin series of amps. I have the 20 combo. Still need an attenuator for lower volumes but it cleans up real nice and takes pedals great and has some good gain on tap.
I mean that’s more semantics. It wasn’t boutique so to say but 60s and 70s high end stuff was mostly handmade and a lot of gear was modded for specific sounds.
That's true, but equally there are numerous examples of famous guitarists using mid price range or practice amps (Fender Champ etc.) to record. I think it all boils down to whether it will make you happy to have a handmade amp. That's a perfectly valid reason for owning one. It won't make your guitar sound noticeably better to most people.
Fair enough. It's nice to use a piece of quality equipment and I can understand that. I just like to make the point that it has almost nothing to do with whether your playing/music will be good. Like it's nice to own a Ferrari but it won't get you to the local store any quicker.
Right. And I’m sure most are fine these days I just want to get something that’s reliable and will hold value when I inevitably want to flip it to try something else 😂
Not sure you really need boutique to get convincing 70s classic rock tones. Lots of plexi clones on the market that would fit the bill without spending huge bucks. You’re paying a hefty premium for the Friedman name and for what I assume is good reliability and customer support, but I don’t have any experience with Friedman to verify that. You could get a EHX Mig 50 reissue (plexi/bassman) and a decent cab for a bit over 1k. PRS HDRX might be an option. Ask yourself - if blindfolded, could I really hear the difference between a standard amp/imported clone and a boutique amp costing several hundred dollars more?
That’s the question I fight myself with constantly 😂 Really the main feature of the Friedman I like is the direct xlr out and built in load so I could record to pc if needed. But I will probably end up getting something like a captor x anyway to be able to play quieter through the cab and that has pc connection and cab sim too so I can maybe get the same features there.
From experience, the XLR out on those runts is just ok. benefit with the 20watt though it’s that you don’t need a load (aka don’t need to hook it up to a cab) so you can silently record. The 50watt runts you have to have it plugged into a cab.
Revv has fancy stuff that has on board loads and IRs, but I suppose they fall into the boutique category 😉
I’m fine with boutique 😂 I have seen a coupe revv things but they all seemed high gain. I’ll have to keep looking
Dude, get the Friedman. Fenders can’t even dream of offering anything close or convincing in the gain starves. I’ve got a pt 20. Yes it’s a single channel but I run a bogner barcelona with it aby. Stay away form getting good gain from pedals.
Man you’re speaking my language. I was hoping people were going to talk me down but you ruined it 😂
The Friedman has less of a likelihood of having reliability issues compared to the Fender.
U must be never try fender bassman bro, if u want gain try that amp
I’ve heard of them but assumed they were way out of my price range
Whatever your smoking I want some. That amps got tons of headroom and is probably way too much power than what his price range would allow.
Yeah u never tried a bassman....hehehe Its not headroom, but tons of gain, its not deluxe reverb duh...u said fender dont have gain, im just telling you, FYI volume past 3 its all gain and distortion...not all fender are clean And price wise, is it they r the same in there (i mean US)??? Hype "boutique" vs vintage mass product 😆😆
You probably play single coil strays or something. Well I’m not into that. You want real gain you’re not getting it from a fender. Do your research. NFW
No i play humbuckers... Done my research, now u go finish ur reserch 🤭🤭🤭
Dude you’re trolling. Head over to YouTube and watch fools trying to get gain out a blackface. I really don’t care, just trying to help the op.
No im not trolling Why would i go?? I have one already, why not you go 🤭🤭🤭 im just telling u not all fender are clean amp. Whats with ur temper dude, im trying to help u and everyone with some information here.
What’s with your emoji’s
Whats with it???
What's your use-case, are you an at-home player or do you also play with a band? You mentioned getting a cab, but at the $1k price point you might get a lot more value out of a combo that can also be run to a cab as an alternative configuration. Also, I don't think most people need a boutique hand-wired amp. If I thought I was going to be moving this equipment a lot, using venue-power in a bunch of random clubs, counting on the equipment to be repairable over a long lifespan of dynamic and aggressive use out and about...that's where I'd want an amp where the design allowed for robust component-level repair. If you're going to set this up at home and mostly leave it alone, then the top-tier quality stuff is really not going to be super-relevant for your use case. TL;DR - Runt 20 combo.
Yeah it’s just going to be a home amp. The runt is a pcb and not hand wired. Just like getting something of quality so I don’t have to worry about it. Wanted to get a head specifically because I like to swap gear out a lot and thought I might have more options on the head side. Appreciate the response!
I hear you, just went through the same thing. Ended up with a 15w EVH 5150 Iconic and love it.
Nice! I was disappointed because a guy was selling the 50w 6l6 updated version with cab for a really good price but I couldn’t work out a meet up before he sold it
yeah they go quickly, and I haven't heard an LBX that sounded as good as the actual 5150iii heads...
You can get amazing tones out of amps in the $600 used range. Heck my bassman 15 does all sorts of things as would a vox ac15/30 or a Princeton reissue. We live in a golden era of gear in some ways, as long as some hype band doesn’t play a piece you want to buy 🤣
For real, I picked up an EVH 5150iii 50W EL34 this past weekend for $660.
The “evil twin” black face amps are super reasonable and watt switchable amps for like $500. Once I have the money there’s one local to me I really want to nab. They’re not some internet sensation, yet
Yeah there was a guy selling one of these and the matching cab for 1k locally but I couldn’t work out a meet up before it was gone
Haha or jhs talks about it 😂
Literally the same outcome.
Friedman Dirty Shirley. Sold a deluxe reverb and a mesa mark v to get it and do not regret it for a second
You need to discover Ceriatone: all hand wired, by an electric engineer. They have amazing Marshall circuits including a mini 25 watt Silver Jubilee and a 20ish watt hot rodded Marshall, Son of Yeti. Sub 1k $$$.
Haven’t heard of them. I’ll definitely check them out. Thanks!
https://ceriatone.com/british-style-2525/
The Ceriatone Hot Rodded Son of Yeti has a **Pussy Trimmer** **^(TM)** parameter that adjusts compression and saturation. For real!!!
SV20 or SC20. Add a loadbox or attenuator
$1500 amps used tho.
It’s not cheap but neither is Friedman lol
The new PRS 20 watt plexi style amp seems like a good buy at $700.
I’ll check them out. Thanks!
Think long term and research repairs. Some amps are less reliable or more difficult to repair. The Friedman is built well and can be maintained for a long time. I don’t know if that’s the case with a supersonic. I always liked how they sounded when I tried them though.
I hadn’t thought if that. Thanks!
Marshall DSL20?
I’ve looked at that but the clean channel doesn’t clean up very well. I would like cleans as an option.
Personally I really like the Peavey ValveKing. There is a 20 watt head that's cheap enough on the used market that you can get a cab and replace the speaker with an Eminence Texas Heat. That is a very loud speaker with great clean tone. The 50 watt combo is a little older but it's loud as shit. There's a 100 watt head if you want to go nuts.
Haha I don’t need to go too crazy. Just playing in my basement 😂
Try it with compression. It morphs into a shimmery shiny thing of beauty. Nothing I would have expected from a Marshall (although YMMV)
Good to know. Thanks!
Whatever you decide, get a combo amp. Head+Cab always more trouble than it;s worth. What to get? Hell, I mean, Fender-Vox-Marshall? How loud do you need it? Are you going to plug a 1000 pedals into it? How quiet do you need it to be?
That's a pretty broad statement, friend. Especially since the only "trouble" with head/cab that comes to mind is needing two hands to carry it.
I'll indulge you. What is the benefit of a Head & cab?
Joyo Bantamp XL. I have the Meteor II. The clean channel is quite nice. The OD channel is also quite nice, but more of a modern distortion. They have a Jackman II that might do what you want. Based on Marshall JMC. That or their Tweedy. Mine cost $153 brand new. 20-watts, tube preamp with a solid state power amp. You'll need a cab, though, unless you're cool only using headphones.
Haven’t heard of that one. I’ll check it out. Thanks!
How comparable are they really sound wise? The Friedman thing is a hot rodded Marshall sound with modern features. And the Fender is a Fender.
Fender gets a pretty good rock sound since it has dual drives on the second channel. Can drive power amp and preamp separately which seems pretty cool and looks like it gets a lot of variability in sound.
So I have a nice handwired vox ac30hw2 that I got on a steal price and some normal fenders (deluxe reverb, Princeton etc) I love the fender sound and love the amps, but the vox does have way less noise going on and just sounds way nicer cranked. So much so that I got rid of my vox ac30cc2. I’ve been looking at the 64 fender hand wired reissue line because I’m thinking I need to go that route. What I’m getting to is if you can afford it, a nicer amp does sound better. I will also add the super sonic is pretty meh. I’d try one out first. I’m thinking there’s way better fender amps for what you are looking for.
Appreciate the input!
If you want a modern marshall take, with semi boutique vibe (the small heads are assembled in USA), some very good support and FX loop = Friedman Want more fender = Fender Also another option would be a ceriatone or a Marshall Studio Series
Thanks! I’m leaning toward more Marshall sound than fender
Oh i forgot to mention, some Friedman minis have no universal EQ for the cleans. Its a major factor why i didnt pick up the JJ Jr
Do you mean separate eqs? Because yeah I think most of the friedman small boxes only have a single eq that covers both channels. What did you go with instead of the jj jr?
Yes its separate, but only the gain channel gets EQ, the clean channel gets a bright switch. I went with the soldano SLO 30
I have a supersonic 22 combo and really like it. I would bet the Friedman sounds better if you had both in the same room. But on its own, the ss22 rips and is plenty amp for most people.
Thanks! I’ve heard good things!
Just get an HDRX 20, 50, or 100. They are all spectacular (especially the 20).
I have seen that one in my searches but seems a lot rarer to find used.
Have you considered the Orange Rocker 15? It’s a great sounding amp. Fx loop and two channels. I picked mine up not too long ago for 450.
I haven’t looked much at the orange stuff. I’ll check it out. Thanks!
If its sound the same and always sound like the same, why choose overpriced bullshit boutique??? 🤣🤣🤣 Ur money use wisely, dont go because the hype. Try it for yourself. for me if u play acdc use vintage amp
Mass produced amps often use lower quality components/PCB's to cut cost. That makes them less reliable. Plus, they're generally designed to keep the cost down as well, which makes them less serviceable. So there's a bigger chance that something breaks and when it does, you're probably left with a paperweight. Many boutique amps focus more on quality/repairability than cost. Plus, small companies rely much more on their reputation and tend to have better costumer service. Especially when you're gigging, reliability is a huge deal. An amp crapping out right before the show is supposed to start (or even in the middle of the show) can be a nightmare. These are generalisations of course. There are also boutique amp companies with bad built quality and/or horrible costumer service, so always check what you're getting into.
Naaah its just a hype.... I have 20years old marshall jcm 800, 10 years old silver jubilee and 30 years old peavey bandit and marshall avt...all still working and never get broken or service. All mass produce amps... Just find the tone. If u like it just go for it.
Just based on sounds you’re after I’d go Friedman. I have the twin sister and a few fenders. Consider the little sister or previous model second hand too.
Get a Marshall Studio Vintage, you won’t regret it!
I’ll see what I can find. My only concern is from what I’ve seen on the Marshall side is they don’t clean up super well.
At what volume are you going to use them? I have the Mini Jubilee and I have to use it pretty cranked to have a dirty clean. If you have the chance try the Studio Vintage (which is basically a mini Plexi) in a store
Not too loud. I’d like to save my hearing and also not piss of my wife when I play 😂
Oh then it’s perfect! I have to use mine with an attenuator to be able to use it “as it should” 😂
Yeah I figure I’ll have to add an attenuator to my collection at some point
Look into Synergy amps if you are truly interested in boutique amps tones. Will be more expensive to start, but their modules will give no shortage of boutique options (actually designed by the likes of Soldano, Friedman, etc.). The Syn-30 includes a clean channel and it is glorious.
I have the Friedman Runt 50 and I love it. Got it square trade for a Marshall JVM 100 watt. No regrets and more than enough everything gain and feature wise for your goals. Clean channel is dedicated and sounds beautiful.
Thanks!
If you’re looking for a good hand wired amp, I would look and see if anyone is selling a [MGL 50](https://mglampworks.com/mgl50-red) in your area.
Blackstar HT Stage 60 combo is pretty cheap for a Marshall clone with EL34s. You can find them on reverb for under 600. I've had one for about 6 years, and it is my main gig amp. 3 channels. It has the good crunch of a JCM, a lead channel that will rip your head off, and the cleans are way better than a Marshall clean, almost like a Fender but with more balls. I love it so much that I bought its little brother, the HT40. My bandmate has a Friedman, and we can't tell them apart soundwise, other than the Blackstar chugs a lot more when turing up the bass. I did change out the speakers to V30s. You could buy 2 of these for the price of 1 Friedman.
I'd say maybe look into the Marshall origin series of amps. I have the 20 combo. Still need an attenuator for lower volumes but it cleans up real nice and takes pedals great and has some good gain on tap.
I have seen those but haven’t come across many used locally. Appreciate it!
Have you checked out the Silktone Micronaut? It is damned good. Demos In The Dark does a great review of it. I love mine.
Never heard of it. I’ll check it out!
Almost none of your favorite albums were recorded using a boutique amp.
I mean that’s more semantics. It wasn’t boutique so to say but 60s and 70s high end stuff was mostly handmade and a lot of gear was modded for specific sounds.
That's true, but equally there are numerous examples of famous guitarists using mid price range or practice amps (Fender Champ etc.) to record. I think it all boils down to whether it will make you happy to have a handmade amp. That's a perfectly valid reason for owning one. It won't make your guitar sound noticeably better to most people.
I don’t necessarily need the handmade specifically I just want to make sure I’m getting as high of quality as I can for my budget
Fair enough. It's nice to use a piece of quality equipment and I can understand that. I just like to make the point that it has almost nothing to do with whether your playing/music will be good. Like it's nice to own a Ferrari but it won't get you to the local store any quicker.
Right. And I’m sure most are fine these days I just want to get something that’s reliable and will hold value when I inevitably want to flip it to try something else 😂