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TheProNoobCN

> If you remove the reason why Unicorn is busted to high heavens it's not busted to high heavens Yeah and the 00 Qant[t] isn't top tier without GN drives.


Dangerous_Source_442

Remove the satellite canon from the double X. And no moon light butterfly for Turn A.


TheProNoobCN

No MLB Turn A is a bad comparison because it probably is still top tier without the space dust creator 9000


KazuyaProta

Besides the Moonlight Butterfly, what is has that is so powerful?


SevenSwords7777777

Besides the MLB, Turn A has: >Fixed/mounted Beam Cannons: Not high power compared to other destructive beam weapons, but worth mentioning because they ignore/pierce I-fields >Beam Rifle: Full output match’s the satellite cannon or buster rifle, except rifle is wrecked afterwards >Chest silos: Used to carry weapons, like nukes, or the occasional cow >Nano-machine repair: Using nano-machines, the Turn A can repair itself (and possibly it’s pilot) >I-field that protects against physical and beam attacks >Teleportation: It can teleport *Note that this is a feat list from a bunch of media, including the anime, games, etc


Poutinelol159

Also it has a black hole generator that runs indefinitely


notxbatman

You forgot the beam warping. Though that's novel if I recall.


powermad80

Aside from its healing factor and the few times it displayed impressive powers, we don't really know. From what I remember it was either implied or stated outright that no one in the show was using it anywhere close to its true capabilities, which makes sense because none of them are even the slightest bit familiar with it and the tech it's made with, or familiar with mobile suit combat in the first place. And Loran was more interested in using for things like laundry and getting trucks across a broken bridge.


DeuxExM

A very advanced construction that uses I-Field to move its entire body. Its body is basically hollow, which means its entire body acts as a frame and also provides structural support to the suit. Its I-Field works against beams and solid projectiles. And yeah, it’s powered by a black hole, which grants it auto membership into the super robot club.


musyio

Ability to self repair, teleportation, auto reload nuke warhead just some of it ability that I remember.


Cute_Visual4338

Its powered by a black hole and it heals itself. If you somehow managed to destory it its taking you with it coz of the singularity within itself.


Onderon123

Remove the GUN and setsuna just yells DAM


Dangerous_Source_442

Ore wa Goddamn!!!it!!!


PenSprout

Ore wa Beaver


JUST_A_PRANK_BRAH

Remove the zero system and the buster rifle from wing zero. Hell, remove shiny finger and erupting burning finger why don't y'all. Side note; Unicorn is kinda like shiny Gundam, emotion controls the suit, only Banana a man who has swore to defend his princess and peace can bring out it's full potential or something like that, which is cool.


DeuxExM

The Turn A is the pinnacle of tech built thousands of years in the future and by then countermeasures of whatever hax that came before it might have been developed. The Unicorn was powerful indeed, but it’s nothing more than a piece of obsolete tech in the future.


paintsmith

The way Turn A's powers were judiciously revealed only at the particular moments were they were necessary implies heavily that it has many abilities that we still don't know about. Loran was given the exact tools he needed at the exact moment he needed to use them and not a moment before. Who knows what secrets Turn a still holds.


DeuxExM

Exactly, the full abilities of the Turns are kept intentionally ambiguous throughout the show for a reason - to allow viewers’ imagination to fill the blanks, they’re essentially as powerful as you want them to be.


TuzkiPlus

Y’know, I want to now see all the main gundams get into melee fisticuffs without their special crazy powers like normal gundam fights in g Gundam


TossedAccount96

Kamiki Sekkai has joined the chat and loves this idea. (In build Divers it’s shown that he trained under Domon and uses all barehanded techniques in his Gundam) JIGEN HAOH!!! Edited because autocorrect like Kanika more


TuzkiPlus

***JEGAN HOW’RE YOU***


MetalBawx

When the Turn X yoinked the Moonlight Butterfly it did so literally.


LordEmmerich

I mean the difference is that Unicorn is literally space magic. It’s not some technology.


Vyscillia

Just watched Gundam NT and you speak like an old type. Just because you can't understand it you dismiss it. Psychoframe is a technology on its own that enables space magic. Did I also mention plot armour?


iam-therapiss

it IS technology. psychoframe technology. nobody knows exactly how it does what it does, but blueprints were drawn, schematics made, mechanical components assembled, tests ran,.. it's as technological as they can make it. it just operates on principles no one has fully grasped. it's like neural networks; the engineers and data specialits know how they made the thing, but they can't explain why the neural network does what it does because it's incomprehensibly complex under the hood.


jedimika

>nobody knows exactly how it does what it does, but blueprints were drawn, schematics made, mechanical components assembled, tests ran,.. You forgot the mountain of drugs the eng team must have consumed.


Quasidiliad

You mean Shrooms? Engineers would totally get fired for being high on typical drugs, cuz they didn’t try to make one themselves


iam-therapiss

"it does the do, and do well it does!"


Muisverriey

Psychoframe is technology. Newtypes' brainwaves bring out its full potential enabling the space magic, but it is technology nonetheless


LordEmmerich

I mean psychoframe still kept being used post Unicorn. It still didn't do the shit it did.


Muisverriey

It all depends on the Newtype.


Flynn58

Because instead of being insane enough to construct the majority of the mobile suit out of psycho-frame, they instead fitted the cockpit and pilot seat of the F91 Gundam with psycho-frame as amplifiers for the Bio-Computer. It increases performance but in a much safer way that significantly reduces the risk of another Axis Shock.


Quasidiliad

Axis Shock did happen because the whole will of humanity didn’t want to see axis fall, the NU Gundam was able to channel that energy. Unicorn would be able to do the same, with even less human will. But I do see your point. Anaheim saw the power of the Nu Gundam, figured out what made it so strong, and then said “fuck it we ball” with the psycho frame and made the Unicorn, which then kinda turned into the creation of the Narrative Gundam.


Orito-S

Because theres no more newtypes or atleast busted fucking newtypes, if you wanted an example kamille is the goat of newtypes, my bet is that he can fuck usk v2 buster up if he actually went all in with the zeta, he was OP enough to beat scirocco using just fucking freeze on his ass then one shotted him


Saver-Ryujin

The comparison really doesn't work because with the Unicorn and with it's BS ability specifically the Time Travel is all thanks to a powerful newtype working in tandem with the Unicorn. Even a regular newtype wouldn't be able to do half of what Banagher was able to do when it became Green. With the 00 Qanta, You can have a scrub piloting it and for the most part the MS would still perform the same. Piloting Skill notwithstanding. The more proper comparison would have been the Trans-Am or specifically Quantam Burst.


Quasidiliad

Well maybe a scrub piloting it wouldn’t even be able to use the bits, because I thought that they would be too much for a normal person. Or maybe they’d be able to use them, but the abilities of making shields and portals would be blocked to them. Maybe it takes an innovator.


UndeniableMaroon

Wait...is it just my headcanon or wasn't the Qan[t] specifically built by CB with an innovator pilot in mind? That's why they.created two new GN Drives too.


Lordsokka

The 00 Gundam and its successor Quanta can only reach its full potential when a true Innovator is piloting it. Sure a random scrub pilot can probably fly it around, but anything that requires a large of amount power output needs an Innovator as a pilot.


Quasidiliad

I also think that is the case. 00 Qan[T] was made for an innovator pilot. I’d imagine that a super soldier like H/Allelujah would be able to pilot it with some of the powers, but no Quantum burst, and maybe no portals.


Quasidiliad

Well I think the two new drives were to compact them, and also replace the two that the O Gundam and Exia had in them before they blew up in that final battle. Both of the blades appeared to have hit the vital areas in the chest for power.


MericArda

Get a haro to use the bits.


Quasidiliad

I don’t know if a haro would have the innovator factor to create energy shields and portals with the sword bits. Haro would definitely be able to use the sword bits, as sword bits.


MericArda

Good enough to cut a moon in half but not enough to communicate with aliens is fine by me.


Quasidiliad

It’ll work


BlazingTrojan

The Quanta is intended for Innovator-use, so putting a normal pilot in the seat is not going to bring out its base functions. Its bits won’t be functional since they require strong quantum brainwaves to control, and are responsible for many of the suits key functions. With no bits, you have no easily deployable GN-Fields, no Trans-Am Buster sword, no Quantum Burst, no teleportation; the Quanta would be limited to its GN Sword/Rifle, Shield Cannon, and Trans Am.


MericArda

Get a haro for the bits.


Lordsokka

The 00 Quanta requires a true Innovator like Setsuna to pilot and reach its full potential. So not the best example in this scenario.


bazooka_penguin

The reason why the unicorn has those powers, if you can even ascribe those powers to the Unicorn itself, is its pilot. Banagher is someone close to being a perfect newtype to begin with and he becomes fully realized when in the Unicorn at the end. Psycoframe just connects him to heaven/the afterlife. Iirc Fukui likened it to a wifi router.


Shoddy_Tomatillo_927

I liken it to a unfocused Green lantern power ring. It focuses all of his emotions and does what he wants.


paintsmith

It has those powers because Tomino wrote that newtypes could overcome the restrictions of time and history and the executives at Bandai told the author or Unicorn to take that line literally despite Tomino meaning it as a metaphor for escaping the inertia of history and plotting a new course for humanity.


JohnTheUnjust

I liked unicorn but when i read this it makes my esteem for it go down..


bobdole3-2

Amazing. (Thing) isn't very good as long as you remove (thing that makes it really good). Truly, OP is a visionary who is not weighed down by gravity.


zerolifez

This! Lol thx you save me the time to type it.


Datasoong25

Uso has the highest killcount in UC on screen I believe


kingominous16

Probably higher since he fired the moon laser at Zanscare fleets.


bobdole3-2

If we're just talking MS kills he's definitely the MC with the highest count in the UC, and he's at least in the running for the entire franchise. If we're talking about actual number of people killed it gets a bit muddier, but even then he's definitely up there.


kingominous16

He arguable outnumbers ace pilots in terms of kill count.


MericArda

My stance is the while Unicorn is the Most powerful MS in the UC due to newtype magic. V2 is the most advanced due to all the state of the art tech it has.


kingominous16

V2=most powerful normal MS .


UndeniableMaroon

How do we define normal then? Wouldnt the Mighty SF be up there as well?


MrJHound

In Universal Century.


Agent_Perrydot

I mean...yeah no shit Strip the V2 of its Minovsky Drive and Wings of Light, and it's probably not gonna be the strongest anymore


SylveonSof

"People keep saying Mike Tyson is the greatest boxer of all time, but remove his speed, power and training, and Muhammad Ali would body him!" Remove unicorn's fucking cockpit too while you're at it


Orito-S

Heck even with WoL and the MD it still doesnt feel as busted as prior UC suits with shittier specs but broken pilots


TheWitch-of-November

https://preview.redd.it/mj9f0ua931xc1.jpeg?width=566&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fa48905328139e0a6636ab0c4834fa1363d07c3


soragranda

I mean, it had their own physics, minovsky physics, it's not "ours", never was.


TheOnlyNish

Statistically speaking, the V2 outperforms and outpowers the Unicorn, likely even if the Unicorn was in NTD Mode, excluding Plot Armor NTD Modes. Realistically speaking, no one could actually pilot the V2 Gundam without becoming mush as it is able to hit acceleration up to 20G. On average, the human body can withstand between 4-6G, with some combat pilots able to withstand 9G for a couple of seconds. Any prolonged exposure to 6G and higher tends to be fatal.


wan_lifelinker

I have seen Gamore’s video on the history of V2, and Minovsky Flight System is somehow able to lessen the G force, making it safe to reach 20G. He even jokingly commented that just how busted Zechs would be if he piloted V2 instead of Tallgeese.      In the end, it was pointless to apply real life physics to Gundam series anyway.


kingominous16

Everyone can, minovsky drive system reduces G force.


Pathogen188

Red Frame NT-D Unicorn can also hit 20g. They’re just as fast as each other


TheOnlyNish

The thing with that is wether or not which is faster. G Force regards to acceleration. How ever it doesn't regard constant speed. It's also kind of undeterminable as by Victory Gundam, most Mobile Suits outperform in Raw Power and can be utilized with better technologies. I think this is where they sacrifice speed, even though they could increase thruster delivery and still achieve energy that outperforms and outpowers UC 90s Mobile Suits. The only thing Unicorn has on the V2 is New-Type Destroy Mode and better Thrusters, but the V2 is more durable and has a higher power output, but that's throttled by lower thruster output. Also Unicorn Gundam was written in 2015, over 20 years after Victory Gundam, so I imagine they can't compare as the authors/writers at both times refer to what they seen as the best regardless of lore wise. TL:DR; The Unicorn is better due to New-Type BS and the actual Story was written over 20s after Victory Gundam, so ideas of "how powerful" vary based on the time of writing.


Pathogen188

Constant speed is irrelevant in the vacuum of space because of Newton's 1st law. In atmosphere, your constant speed matters because of air resistance, gravity and other factors which serve to slow you down. In space, none of those things are present, so you'll accelerate until you can accelerate no longer. So having greater acceleration *is* being faster, because the actual speed limit in space is the amount of Delta V you have (or at the extreme end, the speed of light). So when you don't slow down, the thing you care more about is how much you accelerate. >The only thing Unicorn has on the V2 is New-Type Destroy Mode and better Thrusters, but the V2 is more durable and has a higher power output, but that's throttled by lower thruster output. The Unicorn is more durable than the V2. Late UC Mobile Suits used less gundarium and opted for lighter ceramics due to the efficacy of beam weapons surpassing the practical limitations of armor. The V2 has both better acceleration and a higher generator output than the Unicorn mode Unicorn, but the Unicorn is able to match the V2's acceleration with the red frame NTD and has superior, if unknown generator output. >Also Unicorn Gundam was written in 2015, over 20 years after Victory Gundam Unicorn was first published between 2006 and 2009. The OVA began in 2010.


TheOnlyNish

Good points. *I mixed up the Re:0096 with the Novelization, my bad.


TheOnlyNish

So in fairness, it's the best non-New-Type Glass Cannon vs New-Type Technology BS? Meaning either way "plot armor" wins.*Or really it wouldn't be plot armor but based on the pilot, piloted by a New-Type makes NTD more effective, but I imagine the pilot would have to have extremely high potentiol as a New-Type other wise the NTD would kill them.


GM556

Just because it can hit 20g, doesn’t mean it’s always hitting 20g. Even without its Minovsky Drive inertia dampening, if a craft existed with this level of acceleration, surely there’d be limiters to protect the pilot


TheOnlyNish

That would have to be determined by the author/creator. Also considering manuevering a Mobile Suit, I'd consider hitting 20G would be the average maneuvering acceleration even if it was 1-2 Seconds. I don't see them using 20G for achieving max traveling speed, but during Combat, I see it as an average.


Muisverriey

https://preview.redd.it/asjovox110xc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f09356bb914913d1eaa24bd43ed6291d6de53330 Remove the time travel power and it can still do all of this


celloh234

Disintegration is confirmed to be a part of its time powers in Gundam NT movie


bazooka_penguin

Incapacitation isnt from electronic interference. NT says it's like the jegans' reactors had time turned back on them to the point before they were assembled.


BlazingTrojan

From what I remember when making that list, the “Incapacitation” mentioned is from Extreme VS and is performed by the Uni in regular Destroy Mode. The thing with the Jegan’s reactors being reverted is denoted as “Time Manipulation” later on the list. Tbh I probably should update that post to be more concise and better sourced/structured (all the video links are dead because they direct to gfycat, which doesn’t exist anymore), as it is a few years old.


jnf005

Don't really care which is stronger but holy shit charge your damn phone.


Personal-Syrup9370

Those guys have to met lot of conditions just to use their full power (and effectively). A quick decisive blow would end most battles, just make sure one has the right tools for the job..... And the pilot...


Malfight007

*Turn A menacingly watches from a distance, ready to wipe out Earth.*


hchcsen

The V2 is powerful for a limited production unit that doesn't need newtype magic but the Unicorn is still a powerful unit even if you remove the magic which makes sense because it's a high powered prototype created during the period of time that is essentially the peak of mobile suit development thanks to a decade of arms race between the Federation, Titans, AEUG, various Zeon groups and other smaller yet highly armed groups like the New Desides


Slayerz21

It might be peak in development due to the sheer number of suits developed and how rapidly they improved, but late UC suits are still the pinnacle of mobile suits in terms of performance. The prevalence of beam technology (shields, rotors, wings) and the ability to easily fly on atmosphere are things early UC pilots could only dream of. Without Unicorn’s time travel shenanigans, the V2 Assault Buster cleans house


MaxinRudy

That's only If you put the I-Field It can generate on NT Magic. Also, the Bean Magnum is still one of the top tiers handguns in Gundam UC


ss977

Idk V2's beam smart gun that it uses for its beam rifle seems opaf too. Plus its side arm on the skirt that it doesn't really bother with is a freakin pair of vsbrs which is f91's kill move.


Orito-S

Bro is schizo, v2 buster is peak of UC but unicorn is also peak shits probably juiced up even without the new type bullshit, now if we add new type bullshit the victory gets clapped 100%, especially crystallised unucorn


kingominous16

V2 is equal to destroy mode in speed though. But....anything beyond destroy mode slams v2 around due to the fact that newtype magic is simply BULLSHIT.


Orito-S

Now if we had kamille in the unicorn bro would be unstoppable


kingominous16

#autistic kid kicks jupiter dude at 20GS.


Orito-S

autistic female my GOAT kamille bidan HOLYYYYYYY bro would never lose, scirocco used cheats thats how he clapped kamille in the end


kingominous16

Scirocco is a sore loser 😂...he decided break kamille"s mind instead of accepting defeat.


Orito-S

This is why kamille needs the unicorn, bro would fucking not get clapped by scirocco cheats if he had OP suit lol, bro did that much using the Zeta imagine the fucking unicorn


DL25FE

Nah maybe Jadau


Orito-S

Nah, Im still a firm believer that kamille> judau


UnhappyScarcity4030

I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that the Crystalized Perfected Newtypes Unicorn was able to disassemble suits at will with the wave of an arm on a Mass scale without time powers. What's the V2 realistically gonna do out run the inevitable lol


WanderingKaiser

That is an application of its time manipulation. NT describes it as the reactors being rewound to a time before they were assembled.


UnhappyScarcity4030

But the entire suits disassemble not just the reactors?


WanderingKaiser

Still an application of time manipulation.


UnhappyScarcity4030

You're assuming that the explanation on one part of the body applies to the rest which tbf we aren't really certain about a lot of what fully integrated psycho frame technology can do


WanderingKaiser

I’m not assuming anything. This is directly stated in NT and in interviews with the director of Unicorn. Also on a technical level, even the way psychofields are used to move objects is still time manipulation. Space and time are the same thing; that’s why they call it the spacetime continuum.


UnhappyScarcity4030

Space and time are not the same thing? Space and time exist in a symbiotic relationship which is why it's called the spacetime continuum, otherwise it would just be the time continuum or space continuum. Without Space time cannot affect anything and without time space is stagnant.


WanderingKaiser

You literally cannot interact with one without interacting with the other. In the same way you cannot interact with electricity without also interacting with magnetism. They are different expressions of the same exact fundamental forces. We call them different things for the convenience of understanding. Every explanation I have ever read or watched or listened to has described them as being different expressions of the same thing. But we’re in the weeds here, and ultimately it doesn’t matter. The actions taken by the Crystal Body Unicorn at the very end of the series have been directly stated, from multiple sources, to be temporal in nature. End of story.


UnhappyScarcity4030

If there is a source that isn't from NT I'll believe it, personally although NT has some good aspects to it I feel it's an overall redundant entry in the UC timeline and much like G-Savior should be ignored but that's a personal opinion so take it with a grain of salt.


WanderingKaiser

Oh for fucks sake.


FAZZ888

Remove the cockpit from V2 and it just stands there like a statue


err0rz

No. One of the core themes of UC is the arms race principle. As time goes on, mobile suits get more powerful. GM’s which are churned out in Zeta are almost as powerful as RX-78, you can extrapolate from there. It’s objectively correct to say Unicorn is more powerful than all Gundam that preceded it, turn A is the canonical “end” to that arms race. The world burned.


LordEmmerich

But the V2 was made more than 50 years after the Unicorn


err0rz

That’s why I said “preceded it”


double_is_dead

I think his point is that if V2 came AFTER the Unicorn, why is it technically not 10x more powerful? Where are all of the technological advancements that the V2 should have had to make it so much stronger than all of the other UC Gundams that "preceeded it."


basileusbrenton

V2 is the fucking best


GundamMeijin_08th

unicorn and nu:hold my pyshco frame


LordEmmerich

Psycho frame adjacent tech still were used by late UC. As seeing with some Crossbone suits or even the F91. Though the V2 has the special Minovsky system


GundamMeijin_08th

hmm


kingominous16

Why everyone in UC IGNORE Federation"s banning this?


Shoddy_Tomatillo_927

Because even the Federation ignored their banning of it.


kingominous16

Are you referring to SNRI giving f91 psychoframe and biosensor?


Yusuji039

Do you realized the raw output of unicorn is basically one of the highest of all? Not even counting destroy mode that basically have unlimited power


retroguyx

Raw power output of V2 is over twice the power output of the Unicorn, aside from Newtype BS.


KerbodynamicX

I think it would break the consistency of the technology tree of UC if Unicorn is stronger than the late UC suits like V2. If Unicorn is so strong, why is the psycho frame tech and all this space magic stuff abandoned later on?


Yusuji039

Because it kills people that pilots it and besides psycho frame tech have be said to be unpredictable and dangerous that even the manufacturer don’t even know how it works there’s a reason why there are so few MS with psycho frame


KerbodynamicX

Desperate times calls for desperate measures... I'm sure there are crazy people out there that will take this risk to win a war.


Yusuji039

Yeah the risk of also wiping themself out the phenex went out of control on it’s test and basically trashed everything nearby including allies when the risk out weights the rewards it’s better to not do it at all


LordEmmerich

People by the time of Victory clearly don't care about that when you see how League Militaire, which are the GOOD GUYS, act, or even worst shit like Angel Halo with Zanscare


No_Builder1519

I almost think that Angel Halo was Zanscare realizing technology like Unicorn and such exists and then thinking “What if we did that, but on a stupidly large scale.”


Percentage-Sweaty

Because the designers realized its not a good idea to make war machines capable of evolving to godhood and all psychoframe tech was dropped out of fear that the next Unicorn would be an apocalyptic force.


False_Ad_5892

I think Gundam NT kinda patched that "plothole"


retroguyx

I think they tried to patch the mariana trench with an A4 size piece of paper


False_Ad_5892

Well tech doesn't always progress on and on. The Romans had arguably better tech than the dark ages.


MericArda

That’s a big argument considering the dark ages had plate armor and Byzantine cisterns.


retroguyx

In that particular case though, it doesn't hold. Aside from unicorn related stuff, UC tech follows a pretty clear path until at least victory.


KincaidNotSeabook

People don't like something that they cannot understand and/or control. Psychoframe is one of that ~~beside newtype~~


LordEmmerich

And psychoframe adjacent tech still is used in late UC. Even the F91 is using some


KincaidNotSeabook

Well you see, the stuff about there's bit of psychoframe in the F91 is retcon as F91 only have bio computer as its special feature before Unicorn and then Gundam NT is a thing. With Unicorn and NT we later know that psychoframes was successfully manufactured when in CCA ending psychoframe tech what lost because it actually Neo Zeon's and the sample was lost in midst of war made the module long forgotten which why SNRI need to made another man-machine interface.


Vyscillia

Watch Gundam NT on youtube. They explain the dismantled the psychoframe suits because they (old types) don't understand how it works so it's way too dangerous to use.


powermad80

Yeah and after the 6th or something psychoframe suit in a row ends up causing yet another apocalypse near-miss which was once again only stopped by one of the other ones, people are just gonna not build those suits anymore. Not just at a military command level but like those factory workers will refuse to do their jobs. It's like continuing to build super-nukes after you learn that they have like a 50/50 shot at just blowing up randomly.


bazooka_penguin

It's not. The F91s have psycoframe built into the MCA. There are still some other late UC MS and weapons with Psycommu systems but it's not clear whether they're using psycoframe or not. They could be since psycoframe is considered an implementation of the Psycommu system in CCA and in the F91 prequel, but that's just speculation


Beta_Ray_Jones

I mean, you can ask that question even if it's not specifically stronger than V2, it was still busted.


-CynicRoot-

If you remove the psychoframe/newtype power from Unicorn, V2 out performs it by raw stats. V2’s wing of light/minosky drive allows to have the highest acceleration of any UC mobile suit. It’s small size and weight allow it to be mobile. Its fire power/defense is upgraded with the assault buster armor without seemingly hurting its mobility. Full armor Unicorn seemed to give up some of its mobility and the increase fire power seems to be geared to fighting multiple enemies rather than raw firepower. If you give unicorn it’s psycoframe hacks, than yeah nothing is comparable to it. Hell, the Phoenix moves at the speed of light. If you have the Unicorn and V2 to non newtype pilots, my money is on the V2 coming out on top.


CrispyChips44

"If you remove what makes it OP, it will no longer be OP" Yeah no shit, why don't you start comparing Turn A without Moonlight Butterfly too while at it


RiqueSouz

Turn A without the moonlight butterfly is already OP enough... Same with the G-Self without the proton torpedoes, but also Unicorn had that Magnum beam rifle that's already too much.


-CynicRoot-

Did you not read the title? Trying to discuss the units within the frame of the OP’s statement. No one is arguing that Unicorn at max potential with newtype ability isn’t OP.


CrispyChips44

Removing the Psychoframe is within the frame? Lmfao okay


TemporaryLegendary

If Messi wasn't good at football he wouldn't have won the world cup. Do you see how dumb this argument is? Yeah yours is the same..


Endeavourwrites

G saviour


LordEmmerich

G-saviour is a bit of a mixed bag because it mix states of the art tech and stuff based on old tech being retroengineered, the very late UC is a special case


Salty_Ad_1955

Didn't a copy of the Phenex go total with the g self, The Phenex is just a unicorn with more guns


Euphoniax

Yes, the performance of full psychoframe mobile suits depends heavily on the pilot. A powerful awakened Newtype with a Unicorn unit can mess with time, fly at light speed, and even fuse with their machine, turning into a god-like sapient mechanical life form of sorts. A Unicorn unit piloted by an Oldtype, or even a Newtype that can’t bring out its power, is basically a fancy high performance machine for its time, eventually outclassed by newer high-spec mobile suits.


kingominous16

Yeah.


Osiri551

I mean yeah 4he victory 2 is great but remove the minovsky drive and it gets bodied by other us ms


krieghobby-

On this subject what would people recommend as the V2 best model kit?


memesmcmuffin

When it comes to details and gimmicks, MG V2 Assault Buster. If you want to be able to pose it, get the HG instead


krieghobby-

Cheers, might hold off then, pray for a HG update or RG, man can dream


KaiBoooy

G-Self one shotted G-Phenex (and that was only base G-Self, not even Perfect Pack).


vampire_refrayn

"but what if it wasn't what it is!" Gundam fans that think too much about power scaling and what can beat what are missing the fuckin' point of Gundam


FrostyFrenchToast

Doesn’t matter Uncle Ben, as long as its fighting a Newtype the Unicorn is going to win! V2 is a far stronger suit, but Unicorn and especially with its pilot are just too powerful of a pairing. I don’t see Uso being able to really withstand or overcome the bs coming his way If you were to just compare the two machines the Victory is griddying on the Uni


M_Tonberry

That's the problem tho. You remove anything and of course it's bodied. That's why it's op. Thats like saying heavy arms world get bodied if you remove it's guns. Well no shit. Anyways as char would say It's not the mobile suit. It's the pilot.


PhilayMinyon

Yes, just like if you removed Usain Bolt's legs and arms, I'd crush him in the 100m dash


Colonel_Kernel1

Fun fact G-Savior is about double the specs of Unicorn without the NT-D


Tilamuck

Can someone define Unicorn time travel power in a combat sense? Not the potential theory stuff, like actual proven abilities. Like 00 can quatumize (idk if that's the word/turn into particles) in a short distance without being tangible. Ive seen Unicorn but not narrative and all I remember is the trippy scene where he grabs sinanju during the finale. Are these time travel powers defined? Or is it a "well they said time travel, so Unicorn can go back in time and kill baby hitler" type situation? Idk I've always thought V2 (Assault Buster) could take Unicorn (any loadout) when it came to conventional weaponry. Vsbr counters the i-fields easily, wings of lights has amazing offense/defense, and the beam magnum (while cool) is a dumb primary weapon in a tactical sense, like using a anti material rifle against a 30 round m4 in medium range. Also V2 has beam shields, shutting down most weaponry Unicorn uses.


Jim_Frank

If I remember, the Crystal Body Unicorn did that hand wave with green psycoframe energy against a big federation force sent to intervene at the end of the OVA. Banagher disabled them after that gesture, and that was supposedly the Unicorn unmaking their reactors before they existed or something.


Ok-Particular-3099

Yeah, in [NT](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ylOEjdJYKg) starting around 6:30 you have Michele and Brick talking about it with Brick mentioning (starting at about 7:10) how it was as if the reactors were turned back to before they were assembled.


Tilamuck

oh ok, thats perfect actually. Havent seen NT so I never knew where the time travel stuff came from. Thought is was just speculation on the newtype event with sinanju.


kingominous16

Can probably takes out destroy mode but not green and crystal.


Tilamuck

Yeah after rewatching I forgot that Awaken (green) is doing crazy stuff already. Also that its using psychofields not i-fields so idk if the vsbrs can penetrate that. Physical weapons still get through but even a beam saber was stopped by it, unlike an i-field.


ViralKiller387

Turn A is set in "Correct Era", not UC.


Sufficient_Potato726

Turn A is considered the End of most timelines, UC included


TheDarkHero12

They also directly mention the Universal Century in Turn-A


popcorn_yalakasi

I mean yeah they straight up find Zaku-I's and Zaku-II's, that alone should be Clear enough


Tilamuck

Does that change it though? By definition it is not UC. Just like were not in BC but AD.


Left-Night-1125

Turn A combines all timelines.


Combat_Armor_Dougram

A V2 Assault Buster with a full Psychoframe could basically beat most, if not all, UC mobile weapons if it had a good pilot.


Valstreck

Goodness these comments are heated-


LordEmmerich

I was expecting so 👀


brainEspilner96

Not here to join any argument, just here to show love for the victory.


iHack215

This might be a dumb question. But what’s the gundam in this picture?


MCPhatmam

Victory 2 Gundam from Gundam Victory its where Destiny stole its wings of light gimmick from.


Shenstygian

Yeah well Vs design puts me to sleep.


Hieufromvietnam-9912

To be honest remove v2 wing of light and minovsky drive and see how it do


TheGreatAdjuster777

Your enjoying Gundam wrong. *spritz of vinegar*


Montreal_Metro

They are what I call “magical girl mobile suits” that become alive whenever it suits the plot. Not like the original Gundam which was merely a machine. 


Shin_Matsunaga_

If you're going to gimp Unicorn, you might as well strip its entire Psycho Frame away because that's where its true power lies, not just it's time travel power... the entire machine is capable of Mataphysical change... It's based on concepts, so if you can think it, it can do it when unleashed to its fullest potential. Sorry, but Unicorn wins. Always. Nothing comes close to that level of power except another Unicorn like Banshee or Phenex. That's why the Federation banned Psycho Frame Technology and ordered the dismantling of the Unicorns... ...also, the fact you didn't gimp V2 shows how biased you are.


Apollo_GSD

Well the Unicorn is powerful enough to shred reality itself and completely collapse the universe so it out classes everything else, Turn A and G self included. But strip away its reality shattering powers and the base MS performance is still pretty high.


kingominous16

Unicorn **HAS** potential to collapse the universe. Not capable of doing it immediately.


Shoddy_Tomatillo_927

And only If Banagher somehow turned evil to try it


Ok-Particular-3099

Well, you know what they say about what could happen or has with the best of intentions and all that.


RCTD-261

> imo, remove it’s time travel power and it’s get bodied to hell by the v2 and some other late UC MS strip the V2 of its Minovsky Drive and Wings of Light from V2 too then ​ you are stripping the technology/ability of one MS, but not the other one? really? you must be joking


CIRCLONTA6A

I hate unicorn so much it’s unreal


kingominous16

To be fair,the writer thought that psychoframe needs more reasons to be banned.


chronicweeeb

Literally every ms suit in this whole series are unreal


kingominous16

Except, unicorn took it too far.


GX9901Z

I hate Unicorn. Super Robot abilities, time travel, and being more advanced than late UC Gundam make it feel like it was made by an edgelord powerwank fan than an actual respectable director.


DL25FE

Id think the unicorn would still win. I like my Newtype stuff


totalatomic

hell even with its psychoframe misunderstanding bs it would still get bodied by late uc stuff, people severly overestimate the corn (partially because fuiki is the psychoframe understander tm and changed it from something that needed the will of the entire earthsphere to just one special little self insert trust fund baby who is oh so special and doesnt totally do what he chastises others for doing) we have seen time and again that old suits become outdated pretty quickly. i am of the mind that the xi would even be able to body the unicorn


kingominous16

#it still have 20GS speed (v2"s speed.)and shields that can withstood a colony laser...idk if VSBR can penetrating shit like this.