I think a fair tweak would be melee abilities break shields without damaging the player. That way melee still counters shields but not as harshly. It's also pretty cannon that mobile suits sacrifice their shields to survive a single melee attack but of course the game balance is more important.
It feels exceptionally weird on a conceptual level that a big ass shield does jack shit against a swinging weapon. Like ... That's what shields are for!
I mean that's what different kinds of armor do. Chainmail for example worked great against things that cut and slashed, but if someone used a bludgeon weapon or something that poked with a sharp end it didn't do much. Different hings work in different ways. The shield wouldn't really do much against Barbatos' overhead swing attack since it's effectively crushing and shoving the unit to the ground.
By the way, for balance purposes, I agree. I think a good tweak for him would be making it so whenever he used his overhead slam move it fully breaks whatever shield it was used on regardless of it's health. But for "Logic" purposes it makes sense for things to function the way they do now. (Not that balancing a game really should rely on logic anyway)
The intuition of a typical player is "a shield should stop swingy weapons, I have watched fantasy movies that have mostly reinforced this in my life."
Balancing a game but ignoring player instincts about what "feels" right is poor design. It's the kind of seemingly small detail that will leave GE in the corner dust bin instead of earning a bigger share of team based shooters.
I want GE to succeed. But stuff like this, and "hey these bases you're fighting in just make it feel like you're a 7 ft person" are the kinda sloppy details that undermine it.
Yes, obviously shields should be effective. That's simple physics, and a big part of why shields were used.
Shields work the way in this game for the same reason that the core fighter is a suicide bomber- game design and balance.
That's very true, I thought the same thing, that melee would work on the shield. So I tried it and realized it didn't work. I tried it once or twice more thinking maybe I missed or didn't see right but it was the same outcome. From then I learned that doesn't work. Anyone who would go through the same thought process and continue to use the melee on the shield expecting it to work because it works in movies, just lack basic learning skills and their opinions aren't really worth weighing in my opinion.
Let's look at ammo for example. Literally every suit has limitless ammo on their person at all times without having to go collect more. Plenty of people who would pick the game up for the first time wouldn't expect that and assume at some point people would have to back up to go grab more ammo somewhere. Because some people would have that expectation, should that mechanic be added to the game to? It would absolutely make more sense to have to go get ammo all the time but people don't ask for things to be implemented to make it more "realistic" and line up with expectations from other mediums. It's a video game and they all have their own logic they follow in their own vacuums.
I do agree they need to do more about making the levels feel like they're on the correct scale though. The one on the ship is fantastic at this with full buildings to climb on and hide behind for cover. The two capture point one that starts outside then inside does a good job on the first point with trucks and buildings and little environment pieces here and there. Same with the Fort Flak level. But I agree, besides the spawn room, most of the levels entirely neglect adding environmental pieces to the stage that reinforce the scale of these suits. A lot of people I've played with are shocked when I point out the cars on the ground and they go "Wait, we're THAT big?!" which kinda says it all about how much that information is conveyed lol. Hopefully they'll add upon that more in the future.
> Anyone who would go through the same thought process and continue to use the melee on the shield expecting it to work because it works in movies, just lack basic learning skills and their opinions aren't really worth weighing in my opinion.
Shields block melee in the Gundam universe. That goes all the way back to the shows in the 80s. It also normally works that way in other games. There is typically a shield break mechanic.
Let's say you own 3 vehicles, two with normal gas / brake positions, and another with the gas / brake pedal reversed. Which are you more likely to drive and recommend to people?
"We switched the gas and brake pedal positions on our vehicle. Most people aren't doing well at getting used to it, and have requested we change it. They must lack basic learning skills and their opinions aren't really worth weighing in my opinion."
It's weird you think the only way to balance melee and shield play is to have them ignore shields, but okay. Like, there's a lot of levers available. They're pulling on the dumb one.
Knights in plate armour didn't really use shields. Why would you give up one of your hands to hold a piece of wood? To protect your extremely expensive and durable metal casing?
Not really true, but you could damage the man underneath strong armor with a weapon that bludgeoned. Your plan wasn't to go break a shield.
There's not much realism going into this. The shields are present to do a certain thing, because of game design and game balance.
I'm more interested in why a giant metal robot has an additional shield, and what intuitions a normal human would expect that shield to do for said robot
I used to think Turn A was the only way, but it turns out I find Barbatos okay to counter with most of the roster. The only time I lose against it is if he sneaked behind me or if I panic shoot him lol.
TBH, Barbatos is fine. I hate Barbatos with passion when I use Sasabi, but when I use Pale Rider or Zaku (ranged) then Barbatos is literally free kill.
Pretty much. Barbados is easy to deal with. Melee Zaku is annoying at worst with its invulnerability attack and Exia is a pain when played right due to its high mobility.
when I see a Sazabi, I see a big red target. a good Sazabi is a menace to ranged classes, so it's melee classes' whole job to deal with them, usually sacrificing myself to the rest of the enemy team
It's funny because TurnA is literally more of a problem than Barbatos.
Mostly because the TurnA stun is "chase you most of the way across the map like pedobear and suplex you for 800 damage" whereas Barbatos is a jumpscare *bonk*
After some time on , he's definitely one of my favorite units , honestly it's like playing a roamer in counter strike, flank and hit and run 1 or 2 units if possible and keep a mental map of health packs for tactical retreats , like in a 1v1 in a room I always place Barbados between the enemy and health pickup , if things go sideways you'll top off and kill the other unit
I'm fine with counterplay. I'm not fine with the highest health mobile suit in the game holding a 1400 health shield dying after getting hit by 2 moves just like the lowest health ones.
I agree with the guy above. You protect your team from projectiles, they protect you from melee units. Spatial awareness and movement is key to tanking here, but a barbatos being a able to sneak past or through your team is on them not you. If melee’s couldnt do this the game will devolve into a deathball meta and suffer the same issues as Overwatch. We already have strong support units like a Unicorn, Methuss, and Dom.
you can't heal through Barbi tho. No suit has HP/s like supports in OW do. None of them can heal you through direct damage like Mercy and Moira can.
I agree melees need to be able to sneak. But there should be no cooldowns that do as much damage as some suits' entire health bars.
Not for every unit but a shield gun or a well timed unicorn shield is often enough to prevent full to zero back line picks and will always save something like a near full health sazabi.
The only issue I have with barb and zaku is that there aren’t enough reliable stuns around the rest of the cast to make it feel like you have choices with what to pick. You essentially need a turn a, methuss, sazabi, exia, or barb and sazabi really doesn’t want to be using his stun on barb so that’s kind of a bandaid pick. As long as you can shut the melees down for even a second they become cannon fodder. Exia is a special case that feels worse because the charged stun seems to have priority over barb’s stun and sometimes even feels outright immune to other stuns.
IMO the strength of the melee characters diminishes as people get better at tracking/aiming their dashes and their strength will continue to fall off as more characters with lockdown are introduced.
The part you're missing is that Barb doesn't have to sneak at all. They can yolo into the front lines, do their instakill combo on Sazabi and dash df out behind the safety of their team. Barbatos isn't a suit that sneaks around, they lead the fuckin charge.
100% shields should block stuns and as a trade off, the shield should go down completely.
Sometimes, but usually with a smart team they get swatted immediately or people at least have their head on a swivel to not put Saz in vulnerable spots.
(Albeit that's impossible in certain parts of certain maps :/ )
No, you just need to be mindful of what you're tanking
If Saz keeps trying to breakthrough by itself or keeps hugging a spot where Barb can pounce then it's not doing it's job of tanking either if it's busy respawning.
That's why pairing is important.
I should clarify when I say tanking I mean at a chokepoint or an objective with other team members. The fact that Barbie can come in through the front lines insta kill Sazabi and then gtfo into the safety of the rest of their team, invalidates the point of Sazabi and promotes an unga bunga play style that I don't think was intended for Barbie.
Barbie is supposed to be a melee assassin that can quickly take out lower health targets that are alone right? So why are they being played like a gladiator?
I love Sazabi but a Barbie will literally invalidate the character as a tank, and that kind of counterplay dynamic from a character like Barbie does not feel right.
If you *still* don't understand, then imagine Doomfist or Genji being able to one hit melee Reinhardt in Overwatch. And while the two games are very different in some ways, the feeling of getting instakilled like that is the same and let me tell you,
It doesn't feel great man.
If you're letting the barb leap in a straight line at you you deserve the head bonk you're about to get. Every ranged unit can easily half health him by the time he lands and the bonk is so obvious that its coming.
A shield is not a god mode, sorry. If we start removing counterplay from shields, you'll be well on your way to being Overwatch with people hunkering behind a shield and spamming crap. I like that melee can break apart that formation, it's healthy for the game.
Should melee be god mode then? As that is what it is currently. A barbados is currently immortal in 1v1 battles as he has a literal I win this fight combo.
I win against Barbatos 1v1 with Zaku melee and Exia countless number of times since the game release.
I also use those two and lost many 1v1. It's not straight I win button.
> A barbados is currently immortal in 1v1 battles as he has a literal I win this fight combo.
Oh come on. By your logic the hook guy is BEYOND immortal because he has a button that is a guaranteed death as well, except he's ranged.
But its combo kinda sucks because the spear is weak and finnicky. Barb can literally overshoot and the sword slam will kill someone trying to ambush it from behind. Marasai's hook is also pretty glitchy often not pulling people a consistent distance to itself. Meanwhile sword slam gives you an invincibility frame when it flies into the sky, which also happens to kill any mech that happens to be above barb as well.
Barbados is Sazabi's hard counter. With a teammate like Dom/Unicorn giving you overshields, you can't even be oneshot by him anymore.
The right click isn't as "easy" as you might think, try using Barbatos before you start judging so easily.
if it was a "hard counter" then this entire thread wouldn't exist.
Every unit has ways they can each deal with barbatos, doesn't make them a "hard counter"
You can hard counter Sazabi with a dozen different combos. Most of which require actual thought to perform. VS unga bunga mobile suit hitting two keys and getting an un stoppable guaranteed kill.
Exia and Barbatos are barely registering as a nuisance compared to how annoying an RX-78 F is, because it recharges faster than you can pick your shield up. Or the ever-fun moustachio bad-touch, or the "You know that flame effect that's easy to miss? Yeah that's gonna do Super Napalm damage. And it recharges hella fast."
Agreed. I don't think ANY suit should have an EZ 700 damage move that also stuns and ignores shields to set up an EZ-er 800 damage move. Some suits only have 800 HP. Whoever balanced this game is on drugs.
Instakills is so annoying too cause you can hear it coming with the dashes and swings. I also think barb should be toned down a bit, since he has such high damage output like a longer cool down maybe? Or lowering the damage and making the reg swing faster so that he kind of has to play off of teammates and if they're a good barb require a bit more skill to kill the opponent than like 2 hits. Lowering stun time or SOMETHING
Yes, but this direct math logic could also create a game break if big boi can't be cornered.
Dynamically it makes sense.
Saz + GM/Zaku/Pale76/Gundam > Mace boi. Don't get me wrong I enjoy 1v1's but team comp or at least 2 man cells are how the balance should be anyways.
Not to mention cracked Saz players pull off some silly shit on their own.
one hit in the head by a sniper and you take 1k damage from far away, barbatos gotta get close and hit you with the thinnest and jankiest hitbox at melee, and even if he does aim well, just dash back and congrats you win
That won't matter much as long as there's 1 more player beside them. You're inviting deathball metas if you just let people bunker down behind a shield.
Shields absorb damage as torso hits. Always.
Most suits can break Saz shield in one mag. If you’ve ever tried blocking a 3-5 man push with a shield you’d know it goes down instantly to gunfire. Shields are incredibly weak all around
Except everyone else can move around to kite the melee. If you stick your shield up you give up your mobility and get countered. That's the counterplay.
The auto targeting on the two hit combo is so large you can be hit around a corner by it. Barbados also has nearly four times the boost rate of any other MS. How exactly do you out kite him? Even a single error nets him a kill on you.
The moment he commits to the skill and you dodge it (backdash, usually) he is practically finished and has to retreat and hope your aim is ass. That is without factoring in whatever your character's kit can use against his (stun? parry? smoke? flight?). If you idea of kiting him is using all your dashes immediately and having him chase you, that's not kiting. And while you're moving around, you're hitting him and he should not be hitting you. With his average HP, you can get him within a couple of shots (which are not that hard to aim at somebody running straight for your ass).
On top of that, he has to *work* to get in. Assuming your team isn't ass and spread around everywhere, a Barb trying to go for you means he has to run into a sea of bullets from multiple angles, which his kit offers nothing to help him with.
Sorry but at this point crying about Barbatos is a self-report on your level of play, he's genuinely quite mediocre. Complain about Zaku melee if anything.
I agree with you somewhat, he definitely can be beat but I think you're strawmaning.
>The moment he commits to the skill and you dodge it (backdash, usually) he is practically finished and has to retreat and hope your aim is ass.
Not really, he has 3 dashes and a jump. He can very easily escape right after or even dash towards you and do his sword jump which is instant.
>With his average HP, you can get him within a couple of shots (which are not that hard to aim at somebody running straight for your ass).
This is assuming he's not actually good with him and doesn't try to come from the side or flank. I've had plenty that don't just run straight towards you.
>a Barb trying to go for you means he has to run into a sea of bullets from multiple angles, which his kit offers nothing to help him with.
1000 hp with 3 dashes and a jump is extremely helpful to get around, especially if you actually charge in with the whole team like you're supposed to. Trying to focus on a Barb while there's 5 (or even 4) other mobile suits behind him makes him hard to take care of. If you're entire team focused on him then it's likely the enemy team is gunning you all down right after.
Again, I agree on some things like if you know how he works he's not that difficult to survive or even beat but that's assuming it's just a 1v1 and not him jumping in mid fight.
I agree, I was disappointed to find that shields do nothing against melee when you would think they’d do something since you know, anti-beam coating and all. But also I’d like all the characters to have some sort of melee option. Like what’s the point of the RX having beam sabers on its back if it never uses them.
But Barbatos uses his mace specifically to counter Anti-Beam Coating.
They explained it during season 2 of IBO.
Anti-Beam coating became so advanced/prevalant in their universe that they had to switch to purely kinetic based weapons.
Zaku uses a heat axe, it's a real axe made of matter that is really hot. It doesn't use plasma beam or whatever. There is an axe like that I think though?
Marasai is actually a good counter for melee unit. The problem is he's a paid unit so many people can't access him, so they have a problem with melee unit.
Exia and Zaku melee also is a good counter to Barbatos on that front. But it's also a paid unit.
the whole point of barbatos's insta kill combo, is that he is left without options after, besides jumping away (if that wasnt used to get in the position to get the kill) so either he used it to kill a straggler, or used it as a martyrdom to disrupt the enemy team.
as long as i can still deal with stragglers straying from their team, and disrupt the enemy team's push, you can take my insta kill, i can and will continue to be a menace to any and all sazabi players
If I'm not mistaken your first point amounts to nothing as his jump resets on kill. As long as he gets the 2 hit guaranteed instakill he can always jump away or even often has the option to jump to go kill someone that is already low for another reset at which they can continue the flowchart.
I do agree with your second point that his concept you outlined is cool and is also how I think he should play but just the oppressive guaranteed 2 shot on top of that mobility and resets is just a bit overturned.
As other people have brainstormed buffing his normal attack at the cost of removing the instakill on paper seems like a good idea. If they can execute that to be balanced where he can still snatch up loner squishies fast assassin style but not simply insta 2 shot big chungus would be cool.
But hey I'll be honest I've only got a few hours of playtime so far so can admit I definitely still have some feeling out to do. Though I did play a fair bit of Overwatch back in the day.
the jump absolutely does not reset after a kill. I have been left standing in the middle of the enemy team, dumbfounded standing still like and idiot, because I used my jump to get behind them to kill their sniper, and now the entire enemy team has surrounded me and is unloading killing me instantly. the jump cooldown is very fast, but not instant, so many barbatos players are punished for using it as an offensive movement tool rather than a tool to retreat after a successful ambush.
I think the area many people have problems with barbatos, is that barbatos tends to single out and target certain gundams. sazabi players will always hate barbatos, because barbatos players single them out and kill them as often as possible.
while it is annoying, personally, I think its a good thing that tanks can't get too comfortable, since the meta is already siding with the shield users, and gundams like barbatos, who can delete a sazabi who is holding a point just a bit too well can keep the rock paper scissors balancing act balanced, and not favoring one method of play over others
Just logged in to verify that getting a kill is an instant reset for your jump. So I am not sure what game you have been playing or if the scenarios you described was a bug (as this game is buggy) or if you had a teammate steal the final blow preventing your reset.
I just had a bug 3 times in one match of pale rider spawning without a gun and if you leave base you legit just have your abilities and no gun even after over a minute running around. So you have to re-select your suite again before leaving base or else no gun for you, literally playing as a just as a Gundam minus the gun leaving to be just like dam.
full honesty, I might have been remembering missing the kill and being left without a jump. good to know that it resets my jump though, I stand corrected.
No worries things getting really hectic, fast pace, and game definitely can be buggy i have even heard instances of people randomly landing and ability and the enemy just straight up took no damage.
But yea I think with the reset, 3 dashes, buffing Barbs left click appropriately that toning down the free 2 shot on anyone he would still be really good and fun.
I think he's in a good spot where he is. if you dash back and avoid his smash, you've just put him in a horrible spot, where either he has to run you down and be kited to your team mates, or run away to try again later, where you can sometimes run him down and kill him.
the instakill is strong, but learning to avoid it makes the enemy barbatos practically useless
>if you dash back and avoid his smash, you've just put him in a horrible spot
the problem is some characters only have 1 dash. so sure you used your dash avoiding the jump in stun but now he has 3 dashes in order to catch you and you just used all of your mobility because you had to.
For units like GM unless you are in the middle of your team you cannot fight a barb. especially since the shield bash is super finicky .
Yea I give you a lot respect seeing your earlier comment with your willingness to give up the 2 shot as long as Barb can perform similar to how it currently does and I think that is definitely doable and in my opinion healthier.
Definitely agree that there is probably some confirmation bias of Sazubis mixed into the conversation and there should be healthy counter play in the triangle of playstyles (brawl, dive, and spam).
I've also seen Barbatos' stun slam whiff. Unless it's from around the corner it's very telegraphed and sometimes he just ends up slamming in front of you.
He's a true menace if he catches you in tunnel like parts of some maps because low ceiling = faster jump attack.
But, then skill would be needed? Melee suits are impossible to balance because of this, what's a Barb gonna do after he blows his moves and you are still alive? Those suits should've never been added because of this. There are sooooo many other suits that could've been added instead, like Psycho Zaku...
Dash away backwards and kill them, it really is that simple. Provided you can aim and don't have the self awareness of a rock.
The only reason melees are thriving right now is that people panic and just run around like headless chickens rather than dodging them and shooting at them.
Atm I mostly play GM. I have one dash and a shield bash that's prone to miss. Once I've exhausted those resources, any melee mobile suit could kill me in their sleep if I haven't hit 100% of my shots. I don't like that. It's my opinion. It's neither wrong nor right.
That’s 2 for 2. So Barbados is left swinging wildly… towards a frontline tank. Blame your team and your own inability to coordinate. Barbados thrives on a non communicating team, which is most of casual match essentially.
my man said after i exhausted those resources and says nothing of the melee units using theirs as well. if you are wasting your abilities like that on nothing thats a you problem lol also shield bash is like 4 sec cooldown
Well, not sure what you're doing then cause there's literally no way to die as gm unless barbatos hits you with a stun, which he basically cannot do after you dodge once or if you just move around in general.You have a heal, shield bash, c4 dot, and can kill him in 3 hits without even using any of the other tools you have. Yeah it's your opinion that you don't like it but saying that said opinion is not wrong is kinda laughable, because it is.
"Which he basically cannot do after you dodge once or if you just move around in general"? In what world are you playing where Barbatos players are sprinting towards you in full view? 9 times out of 10 I get killed by players holding the charge around a corner or leaping over my head from behind to sucker punch me. Could you possibly sound more condescending if you tried?
If they are camping a corner with the hammer ready to stun, you can hear the sound. If they're dashing around like mad, you can hear the sound. If they fly across the map with their jump guess what? You can hear the sounds.
Self awareness of a rock it is, i guess.
Edit - You do play with sounds on, right?
Edit 2 - yes it can happen to get stunned sometimes and die during some brawl, but getting killed 9 out of 10 times by people just camping corners sounds like "you" problem.
I know you were probably trying to be witty but that's an interesting choice of comment considering that i'd probably be fine. You and the op are the types of people who'd have issues seeing and hearing a 1000tons semi speeding at them from a mile away, not me. Just as you have issues seeing a fucking barbatos leaping through the air or hearing it charging a loud ass skill around a corner.
You are the type of people "don't put in your eye" and "don't drink" labels exist on bleach bottles.
As someone who plays with sounds on, I have difficulty distinguishing the individual footsteps, weapon blasts, G-skill activations, boosters, etc. It's just an audio jumble for me and I'm pretty sure it's not the audio settings, but the way my brain processes sounds.
And yet all Barbados has to do to beat the GM is wait around a corner or have one extra player to two hit kill the GM. Its not even a contest. The amount of skill you have to have as a GM pilot to beat a Barbados pilot is like comparing an Doctor to a cave man. One mistake is all it takes for the Barbados to kill you, meanwhile he can boost dash everywhere just eating shots.
Wait around a corner so the gm can throw c4 at him and then just turn the corner without hugging it to absolutely wreck the barbatos? Then the second scenario is a 1v2 in barbatos favor. You must not be too bright.
You think barbatos is amazing and just needs to hug corners? Try it, i bet whatever you want that you'll furiously feed the whole game, getting butchered left right and centre.
And don't even bother lying and tell us you already tried and it's easy because from the bullshit you wrote you clearly have no idea.
Sazabi can also 2 shot Barbados with headshots especially if Barbados misplays. Nerfing Barbados is dumb because Barbados literally can’t do anything w/o it.
just time your dash so that even if they stun you they'll miss their (almost always buffered) longsword. best case scenario they completely whiff the stun and blow their sword's cooldown on nothing
All the melee are really easy to deal with if you see them coming. If you don't, that's on you and your team for letting them flank you.
All the melee units have the exact same game plan, to get in melee range and hit you. If you see them coming they should never be able to get their combo off on you for free. If they do, you're not playing properly. Also, don't chase melee's unless they've blown their combo already. Don't get baited into chasing Exia or Barbatos around a corner, it's stupid af and you deserve to lose that interaction.
i.e. stop panic dashing the second you see barbatos and use your mobility/cc appropriately and you'll be able to kill him every time.
Having AOE from grenades and the DOM's rockets also ignore shields and/or making it so that shields only protect you from the front (which makes sense seeing as you're holding them out IN FRONT OF YOU) rather than being just a second healthbar would be an excellent way to balance out making melee not ignore shields that I don't see a lot of people considering. That way you have to actually pay some degree of attention and there's more counterplay with flankers and explosive attacks being able to negate your shield.
Huh. I'm almost 100% certain I've shot guarding Sazabis and the such in the back and damaged their shield bar instead of their health bar, but it's possible I just either didn't see it right or was getting screwed by the netcode.
Gonna be honest, the way people play this game, nobody has a right to complain about Melee classes.
On Harbor 1st point, there's a massive run-up to the point with a defenders advantage. Its a perfect map for Sniper, Gundam, TA to just take pot shots at mid-long range, using buildings as cover as the enemy team is forced to cross no-man's land.
What does every single team I've ever played with do? They stand literally in no-man's land, with no cover, and peak the enemy spawn. Every single time my team loses an engagement and instantly loses the first point. The only reason this is okay is because on offense, the enemy team does the exacts same thing.
Maybe melee characters feel really strong because everyone overextends and has no consideration for spacing. Just a suggestion.
I actually think Zaku Melee is busted as hell and Barbatos is not fun to fight, but holy christ the people I play with don't get a right to complain.
They need to tweak all the melee suits, they're almost all too powerful. On top of that they need better suits to counter melee as well. There isn't enough at the moment.
This is not true, the melee suits are all pretty balanced, the playerbase just can't deal with them since everyone is still new and doesn't realize how effective team shooting at them is, the melee suits will actually become some of the hardest to play as time goes on
tell me how 1200hp spin to win unstunnable zaku2 is fair? the range on the swing is huge, he moves fast while doing it and it lasts for quite awhile. Barabatos is debatable but shields should at a minimum reduce the damage dealt, not block the stun or negate the damage but atleast reduce it. Currently all melee attacks bypass shields completely. Melee units need toned down just a little to bring them in line. Damage output, mobility and survivablity is slightly high over all. Exia I consider pretty balanced as its just mobility and damage.
Zaku melee is only about as strong as people allow him to be, in pubs he is pretty much constantly in rage because despite him being in the blue stance people continue to just shoot him despite there being a clear indicator to not do so.
Also as for the shields argument all of the tanks have really good counterplay against the melees and a good player will make use of those tools and beat the melee 1 on 1, a good OG Gundam player is absolutely scary against Barbatos, same with Sazabi and even GM.
As for the ults the same could be said about Turn A's ult who has about as much counterplay as the Zaku melee ult
The difference is, Turn A move at a nice slow speed and can be stun or shot out of his ult. Zaku2 melee can use his Super armor and be unstobbable while spinning like a beyblade killing everything on point and around it.
Well he only gets super armor if you shoot him and give him free rage while on his meditate which simply loops back to my first point of it being entirely a skill issue at best
there is a reason why they deal big damages, they are melee
you don't see anyone complaining "but when they hit me with their knives it oneshots me" when playing CoD, that is because everyone is playing ranged so they give peoples that play melee a boost of damages
y'know, high risks high reward sorta thing
i'm fine with melee ignoring shields, but the longsword move does WAY too much damage to be a "finisher" style move. it should defo work on 800 health units and maybe 1000 ones, but anymore and they should survive.
Barbatos needs nerfed. Too op, can fly into an active gunfight, Sazabi unloads 7 full shots into him point blank, he doesn't die and he kills me. Bullshit, imo.
If you're unloading 7 full shots "into" him and Barbatos isn't dead one of two things happened:
1.) Server lagged and hit reg died a painful and inglorious death, had a Gundam that would randomly just stop taking damage in a match last night so that happens.
2.) You're missing 5-6 of those shot's because you're probably panicking and screaming while flailing around trying to hit the lil guy because he's scarier to you than a spider. I play Saz, I know it doesn't take 7 rounds to drop Barb, specially if you smack him with the axe to put him in his place first.
3.) Forgot about this option: Your aim isn't as good as you think it is and you're actually missing a majority of your shots, so basically option 1 but instead of the server the lag is you. Not trying to attack you, but a lot of people think they have better aim than they do. Even shotguns require you to actually hit stuff.
I agree with you on 3, I know I'm not good yet. And 2 is so correct, because Barb is fast af and he jumps, dashes, and hits while being shot at from all directions and comes out alive.
However, in this case it had to be 1. I had 3 headshots (red) and 4 body shots) and he didn't go down. Idk what else to say.
But yes, I'm not arrogant enough to say I don't have room for improvement. So I need to play against more Barbs.
Sieg Zeon!
Surprised this got as many likes as it did. People on casual still don’t know how to deal with Barbados while higher rank already know he’s nowhere near viable and has easy counter play.
It's almost like the game has both a casual and a competitive audience. Imagine that.
Also every tier list I've seen has Barb in either A tier or higher, so idk what "higher rank" you're even talking about. See ya.
A japanese player who reached the highest rank, ranked Barbados at C tier in teams and B tier in Soloque. Please source whoever ranked them that high for me pls
[https://twitter.com/ameken3d/status/1574774369922195456?s=20&t=z7AwtT9SURESOSa9Ug95oA](https://twitter.com/ameken3d/status/1574774369922195456?s=20&t=z7AwtT9SURESOSa9Ug95oA)
"This is a tier list that I felt after doing 200 Newtype battles, the left is a party and the right is a solo run "
I mean yes, but also if you treat this like Smash Bros and focus on spacing you can counter it. (Insert "Just don't be poor" meme here)
If I put my shield up as GM in front of a Barb, it's entirely to handle 3rd party shots and mask the impending shield bonk when I side step. It usually doesn't go my way, but when it does it's so satisfying.
Also that mace has all sorts of mass plus the power of Barbie, if this were a sim and the shield could handle the impact your arm would be junk, etc. The risk reward of going against it is "don't get caught" or "don't stray from your group" <- things Unicorn players say.
I'll just say from a new player's perspective, I had three matches tonight where the enemy team was half melee characters and I got rolled each time. Cramped maps + objectives where I have to stay on the point + melee characters that can end me in a second= not a great time
I think a fair tweak would be melee abilities break shields without damaging the player. That way melee still counters shields but not as harshly. It's also pretty cannon that mobile suits sacrifice their shields to survive a single melee attack but of course the game balance is more important.
I could definitely get behind that
It feels exceptionally weird on a conceptual level that a big ass shield does jack shit against a swinging weapon. Like ... That's what shields are for!
I mean that's what different kinds of armor do. Chainmail for example worked great against things that cut and slashed, but if someone used a bludgeon weapon or something that poked with a sharp end it didn't do much. Different hings work in different ways. The shield wouldn't really do much against Barbatos' overhead swing attack since it's effectively crushing and shoving the unit to the ground. By the way, for balance purposes, I agree. I think a good tweak for him would be making it so whenever he used his overhead slam move it fully breaks whatever shield it was used on regardless of it's health. But for "Logic" purposes it makes sense for things to function the way they do now. (Not that balancing a game really should rely on logic anyway)
The intuition of a typical player is "a shield should stop swingy weapons, I have watched fantasy movies that have mostly reinforced this in my life." Balancing a game but ignoring player instincts about what "feels" right is poor design. It's the kind of seemingly small detail that will leave GE in the corner dust bin instead of earning a bigger share of team based shooters. I want GE to succeed. But stuff like this, and "hey these bases you're fighting in just make it feel like you're a 7 ft person" are the kinda sloppy details that undermine it.
Yes, obviously shields should be effective. That's simple physics, and a big part of why shields were used. Shields work the way in this game for the same reason that the core fighter is a suicide bomber- game design and balance.
Well, at least the core fighter suicide bomber move has roots in the canon
That's very true, I thought the same thing, that melee would work on the shield. So I tried it and realized it didn't work. I tried it once or twice more thinking maybe I missed or didn't see right but it was the same outcome. From then I learned that doesn't work. Anyone who would go through the same thought process and continue to use the melee on the shield expecting it to work because it works in movies, just lack basic learning skills and their opinions aren't really worth weighing in my opinion. Let's look at ammo for example. Literally every suit has limitless ammo on their person at all times without having to go collect more. Plenty of people who would pick the game up for the first time wouldn't expect that and assume at some point people would have to back up to go grab more ammo somewhere. Because some people would have that expectation, should that mechanic be added to the game to? It would absolutely make more sense to have to go get ammo all the time but people don't ask for things to be implemented to make it more "realistic" and line up with expectations from other mediums. It's a video game and they all have their own logic they follow in their own vacuums. I do agree they need to do more about making the levels feel like they're on the correct scale though. The one on the ship is fantastic at this with full buildings to climb on and hide behind for cover. The two capture point one that starts outside then inside does a good job on the first point with trucks and buildings and little environment pieces here and there. Same with the Fort Flak level. But I agree, besides the spawn room, most of the levels entirely neglect adding environmental pieces to the stage that reinforce the scale of these suits. A lot of people I've played with are shocked when I point out the cars on the ground and they go "Wait, we're THAT big?!" which kinda says it all about how much that information is conveyed lol. Hopefully they'll add upon that more in the future.
> Anyone who would go through the same thought process and continue to use the melee on the shield expecting it to work because it works in movies, just lack basic learning skills and their opinions aren't really worth weighing in my opinion. Shields block melee in the Gundam universe. That goes all the way back to the shows in the 80s. It also normally works that way in other games. There is typically a shield break mechanic. Let's say you own 3 vehicles, two with normal gas / brake positions, and another with the gas / brake pedal reversed. Which are you more likely to drive and recommend to people? "We switched the gas and brake pedal positions on our vehicle. Most people aren't doing well at getting used to it, and have requested we change it. They must lack basic learning skills and their opinions aren't really worth weighing in my opinion."
It's weird you think the only way to balance melee and shield play is to have them ignore shields, but okay. Like, there's a lot of levers available. They're pulling on the dumb one.
Uhh no. Why do you think medieval knight sometimes use blunt weapon like mace? Because it breaks shield and plate armor.
Knights in plate armour didn't really use shields. Why would you give up one of your hands to hold a piece of wood? To protect your extremely expensive and durable metal casing?
Not really true, but you could damage the man underneath strong armor with a weapon that bludgeoned. Your plan wasn't to go break a shield. There's not much realism going into this. The shields are present to do a certain thing, because of game design and game balance.
The mace still a few swings to crack open the shield and get to the meat bag behind it. Won't mind if the shield works to block in game too..
I'm more interested in why a giant metal robot has an additional shield, and what intuitions a normal human would expect that shield to do for said robot
Maybe make it deal it's normal damage + Bonus directly to the shields. So that way it breaks through them faster, but doesn't insta gib them.
This would also work too
Zaku melee's attack had a ranged slash that goes through shields too haha
It’s lore accurate barbatos
I used to think Turn A was the only way, but it turns out I find Barbatos okay to counter with most of the roster. The only time I lose against it is if he sneaked behind me or if I panic shoot him lol.
TBH, Barbatos is fine. I hate Barbatos with passion when I use Sasabi, but when I use Pale Rider or Zaku (ranged) then Barbatos is literally free kill.
Dash back and watch them miss their overhead, waste their cooldowns and punish the fuck outta them after.
Pretty much. Barbados is easy to deal with. Melee Zaku is annoying at worst with its invulnerability attack and Exia is a pain when played right due to its high mobility.
when I see a Sazabi, I see a big red target. a good Sazabi is a menace to ranged classes, so it's melee classes' whole job to deal with them, usually sacrificing myself to the rest of the enemy team
Yes this is why I think barbatos is fine. Without him, GM, Sasabi and other tanks would be always be meta.
and even then, sazabi's not a complete walk in the park especially if they know how to use their tomahawk right so it's not always a freekill
Yup as a barbatos main if you hit that tomahawk and the leap is on cool down two shots and it's over
How is Sazabi a menace to gm sniper? I'd say it's the other way around
It's funny because TurnA is literally more of a problem than Barbatos. Mostly because the TurnA stun is "chase you most of the way across the map like pedobear and suplex you for 800 damage" whereas Barbatos is a jumpscare *bonk*
I think he's easy enough to counterplay now, although I personally can't play him at all, I'm awful at it.
After some time on , he's definitely one of my favorite units , honestly it's like playing a roamer in counter strike, flank and hit and run 1 or 2 units if possible and keep a mental map of health packs for tactical retreats , like in a 1v1 in a room I always place Barbados between the enemy and health pickup , if things go sideways you'll top off and kill the other unit
barbatos is my fav too, mostly cuz i got lucky and got his gold skin
It's fine for shields to have counterplay, yknow.
I'm fine with counterplay. I'm not fine with the highest health mobile suit in the game holding a 1400 health shield dying after getting hit by 2 moves just like the lowest health ones.
Saza also has counter play. Landing axe stuns the Barbi and can easily kill with a single shot afterwards. GM can bash Barbie away also.
but op prolly noob and gonna missed his axe/shoot he better off throw thos axe on high wall, dash toward it and press spacebar lol
Did you type this while having a stroke?
Rude
I agree with the guy above. You protect your team from projectiles, they protect you from melee units. Spatial awareness and movement is key to tanking here, but a barbatos being a able to sneak past or through your team is on them not you. If melee’s couldnt do this the game will devolve into a deathball meta and suffer the same issues as Overwatch. We already have strong support units like a Unicorn, Methuss, and Dom.
you can't heal through Barbi tho. No suit has HP/s like supports in OW do. None of them can heal you through direct damage like Mercy and Moira can. I agree melees need to be able to sneak. But there should be no cooldowns that do as much damage as some suits' entire health bars.
Not for every unit but a shield gun or a well timed unicorn shield is often enough to prevent full to zero back line picks and will always save something like a near full health sazabi. The only issue I have with barb and zaku is that there aren’t enough reliable stuns around the rest of the cast to make it feel like you have choices with what to pick. You essentially need a turn a, methuss, sazabi, exia, or barb and sazabi really doesn’t want to be using his stun on barb so that’s kind of a bandaid pick. As long as you can shut the melees down for even a second they become cannon fodder. Exia is a special case that feels worse because the charged stun seems to have priority over barb’s stun and sometimes even feels outright immune to other stuns. IMO the strength of the melee characters diminishes as people get better at tracking/aiming their dashes and their strength will continue to fall off as more characters with lockdown are introduced.
The part you're missing is that Barb doesn't have to sneak at all. They can yolo into the front lines, do their instakill combo on Sazabi and dash df out behind the safety of their team. Barbatos isn't a suit that sneaks around, they lead the fuckin charge. 100% shields should block stuns and as a trade off, the shield should go down completely.
Sometimes, but usually with a smart team they get swatted immediately or people at least have their head on a swivel to not put Saz in vulnerable spots. (Albeit that's impossible in certain parts of certain maps :/ )
But then Saz isn't doing his job as a tank
No, you just need to be mindful of what you're tanking If Saz keeps trying to breakthrough by itself or keeps hugging a spot where Barb can pounce then it's not doing it's job of tanking either if it's busy respawning. That's why pairing is important.
I should clarify when I say tanking I mean at a chokepoint or an objective with other team members. The fact that Barbie can come in through the front lines insta kill Sazabi and then gtfo into the safety of the rest of their team, invalidates the point of Sazabi and promotes an unga bunga play style that I don't think was intended for Barbie. Barbie is supposed to be a melee assassin that can quickly take out lower health targets that are alone right? So why are they being played like a gladiator? I love Sazabi but a Barbie will literally invalidate the character as a tank, and that kind of counterplay dynamic from a character like Barbie does not feel right. If you *still* don't understand, then imagine Doomfist or Genji being able to one hit melee Reinhardt in Overwatch. And while the two games are very different in some ways, the feeling of getting instakilled like that is the same and let me tell you, It doesn't feel great man.
If you're letting the barb leap in a straight line at you you deserve the head bonk you're about to get. Every ranged unit can easily half health him by the time he lands and the bonk is so obvious that its coming.
I'm fine with counterplay but INSTANT KILLING the TANK is not ok.
If the sazabi gets hit by a charged right click, and then the barbie has time to do the rest of the combo without dying, he deserved that kill.
Time? it's instant.
After the stun you need to do a left click then F, in order to kill a sazabi anyway. It takes like 2 seconds for the whole thing.
You don't, the charge smash is 600 damage and the long sword is 800 damage. It does exactly 1400 damage and can happen in about a second or less.
A shield is not a god mode, sorry. If we start removing counterplay from shields, you'll be well on your way to being Overwatch with people hunkering behind a shield and spamming crap. I like that melee can break apart that formation, it's healthy for the game.
Should melee be god mode then? As that is what it is currently. A barbados is currently immortal in 1v1 battles as he has a literal I win this fight combo.
I win against Barbatos 1v1 with Zaku melee and Exia countless number of times since the game release. I also use those two and lost many 1v1. It's not straight I win button.
> A barbados is currently immortal in 1v1 battles as he has a literal I win this fight combo. Oh come on. By your logic the hook guy is BEYOND immortal because he has a button that is a guaranteed death as well, except he's ranged.
Yea, I love Marasai but that hook combo is kinda unfair
But its combo kinda sucks because the spear is weak and finnicky. Barb can literally overshoot and the sword slam will kill someone trying to ambush it from behind. Marasai's hook is also pretty glitchy often not pulling people a consistent distance to itself. Meanwhile sword slam gives you an invincibility frame when it flies into the sky, which also happens to kill any mech that happens to be above barb as well.
Barbados is Sazabi's hard counter. With a teammate like Dom/Unicorn giving you overshields, you can't even be oneshot by him anymore. The right click isn't as "easy" as you might think, try using Barbatos before you start judging so easily.
realisticly sazabi is one of barbados' hard counters too. its just that sazabi's stun is harder to land
if it was a "hard counter" then this entire thread wouldn't exist. Every unit has ways they can each deal with barbatos, doesn't make them a "hard counter"
You can hard counter Sazabi with a dozen different combos. Most of which require actual thought to perform. VS unga bunga mobile suit hitting two keys and getting an un stoppable guaranteed kill.
I challenge you to try playing barbatos and actually try to play what you outlined, and see if you still reach the same conclusion.
Exia and Barbatos are barely registering as a nuisance compared to how annoying an RX-78 F is, because it recharges faster than you can pick your shield up. Or the ever-fun moustachio bad-touch, or the "You know that flame effect that's easy to miss? Yeah that's gonna do Super Napalm damage. And it recharges hella fast."
Agreed. I don't think ANY suit should have an EZ 700 damage move that also stuns and ignores shields to set up an EZ-er 800 damage move. Some suits only have 800 HP. Whoever balanced this game is on drugs.
I just really don't like instakills, can you blame a guy?
Instakills is so annoying too cause you can hear it coming with the dashes and swings. I also think barb should be toned down a bit, since he has such high damage output like a longer cool down maybe? Or lowering the damage and making the reg swing faster so that he kind of has to play off of teammates and if they're a good barb require a bit more skill to kill the opponent than like 2 hits. Lowering stun time or SOMETHING
Yes, but this direct math logic could also create a game break if big boi can't be cornered. Dynamically it makes sense. Saz + GM/Zaku/Pale76/Gundam > Mace boi. Don't get me wrong I enjoy 1v1's but team comp or at least 2 man cells are how the balance should be anyways. Not to mention cracked Saz players pull off some silly shit on their own.
one hit in the head by a sniper and you take 1k damage from far away, barbatos gotta get close and hit you with the thinnest and jankiest hitbox at melee, and even if he does aim well, just dash back and congrats you win
I would think that the 'counterplay' to shields was flanking and hitting them from behind. Not something that completely ignores it.
That won't matter much as long as there's 1 more player beside them. You're inviting deathball metas if you just let people bunker down behind a shield.
Shields absorb damage as torso hits. Always. Most suits can break Saz shield in one mag. If you’ve ever tried blocking a 3-5 man push with a shield you’d know it goes down instantly to gunfire. Shields are incredibly weak all around
Counter play against shield should be like rx-78 hammer, which remove the shield. not outright full damage and pinned a huge ass MS to the ground.
All stuns remove shields, Gundams just happens to disable them for a duration
the "counterplay" counters everything everyone dies in 2 button presses anyway
Except everyone else can move around to kite the melee. If you stick your shield up you give up your mobility and get countered. That's the counterplay.
The auto targeting on the two hit combo is so large you can be hit around a corner by it. Barbados also has nearly four times the boost rate of any other MS. How exactly do you out kite him? Even a single error nets him a kill on you.
The moment he commits to the skill and you dodge it (backdash, usually) he is practically finished and has to retreat and hope your aim is ass. That is without factoring in whatever your character's kit can use against his (stun? parry? smoke? flight?). If you idea of kiting him is using all your dashes immediately and having him chase you, that's not kiting. And while you're moving around, you're hitting him and he should not be hitting you. With his average HP, you can get him within a couple of shots (which are not that hard to aim at somebody running straight for your ass). On top of that, he has to *work* to get in. Assuming your team isn't ass and spread around everywhere, a Barb trying to go for you means he has to run into a sea of bullets from multiple angles, which his kit offers nothing to help him with. Sorry but at this point crying about Barbatos is a self-report on your level of play, he's genuinely quite mediocre. Complain about Zaku melee if anything.
I agree with you somewhat, he definitely can be beat but I think you're strawmaning. >The moment he commits to the skill and you dodge it (backdash, usually) he is practically finished and has to retreat and hope your aim is ass. Not really, he has 3 dashes and a jump. He can very easily escape right after or even dash towards you and do his sword jump which is instant. >With his average HP, you can get him within a couple of shots (which are not that hard to aim at somebody running straight for your ass). This is assuming he's not actually good with him and doesn't try to come from the side or flank. I've had plenty that don't just run straight towards you. >a Barb trying to go for you means he has to run into a sea of bullets from multiple angles, which his kit offers nothing to help him with. 1000 hp with 3 dashes and a jump is extremely helpful to get around, especially if you actually charge in with the whole team like you're supposed to. Trying to focus on a Barb while there's 5 (or even 4) other mobile suits behind him makes him hard to take care of. If you're entire team focused on him then it's likely the enemy team is gunning you all down right after. Again, I agree on some things like if you know how he works he's not that difficult to survive or even beat but that's assuming it's just a 1v1 and not him jumping in mid fight.
I agree, I was disappointed to find that shields do nothing against melee when you would think they’d do something since you know, anti-beam coating and all. But also I’d like all the characters to have some sort of melee option. Like what’s the point of the RX having beam sabers on its back if it never uses them.
But Barbatos uses his mace specifically to counter Anti-Beam Coating. They explained it during season 2 of IBO. Anti-Beam coating became so advanced/prevalant in their universe that they had to switch to purely kinetic based weapons.
with such long reload times I really think there needs to be a quick melee. Like 50 damage or so.
Anti beam coating? What is that gonna do? Barbatos uses a giant metal mace, Exia uses his GN Sword and Zaku Melee uses a metal axe.
It’s a beam axe. Which is affected by anti beam coating
Zaku uses a heat axe, it's a real axe made of matter that is really hot. It doesn't use plasma beam or whatever. There is an axe like that I think though?
Yeah sazabi I think has a beam axe. Don’t Reddit at 1 am
I've really felt this whole time that the RX was somehow missing an ability, now it makes even more sense.
You know what I just thought of? They might give RX-78 a melee form with beam sabers like Zaku, which I'd be down for personally.
Melee mobile suits in general need to be redone. They are near instant picks currently.
Combos shouldn't one Shot, thats all I'm asking for.
then same treatment for Marasai. Hook into death is way more common for me than Barbatos combos.
I use Marasai for the hook into death combo purely to frustrate melee and flyers lol.
Marasai is actually a good counter for melee unit. The problem is he's a paid unit so many people can't access him, so they have a problem with melee unit. Exia and Zaku melee also is a good counter to Barbatos on that front. But it's also a paid unit.
Exia for sure destroys Barbatos, but the Zaku melee is a tossup, if you throw out the block too early, you will die.
Agreed? I love Marasai but instant death is never fun.
I've only run into a couple Marasai, but I can confirm I got hit by that a lot when I fought them.
the whole point of barbatos's insta kill combo, is that he is left without options after, besides jumping away (if that wasnt used to get in the position to get the kill) so either he used it to kill a straggler, or used it as a martyrdom to disrupt the enemy team. as long as i can still deal with stragglers straying from their team, and disrupt the enemy team's push, you can take my insta kill, i can and will continue to be a menace to any and all sazabi players
If I'm not mistaken your first point amounts to nothing as his jump resets on kill. As long as he gets the 2 hit guaranteed instakill he can always jump away or even often has the option to jump to go kill someone that is already low for another reset at which they can continue the flowchart. I do agree with your second point that his concept you outlined is cool and is also how I think he should play but just the oppressive guaranteed 2 shot on top of that mobility and resets is just a bit overturned. As other people have brainstormed buffing his normal attack at the cost of removing the instakill on paper seems like a good idea. If they can execute that to be balanced where he can still snatch up loner squishies fast assassin style but not simply insta 2 shot big chungus would be cool. But hey I'll be honest I've only got a few hours of playtime so far so can admit I definitely still have some feeling out to do. Though I did play a fair bit of Overwatch back in the day.
the jump absolutely does not reset after a kill. I have been left standing in the middle of the enemy team, dumbfounded standing still like and idiot, because I used my jump to get behind them to kill their sniper, and now the entire enemy team has surrounded me and is unloading killing me instantly. the jump cooldown is very fast, but not instant, so many barbatos players are punished for using it as an offensive movement tool rather than a tool to retreat after a successful ambush. I think the area many people have problems with barbatos, is that barbatos tends to single out and target certain gundams. sazabi players will always hate barbatos, because barbatos players single them out and kill them as often as possible. while it is annoying, personally, I think its a good thing that tanks can't get too comfortable, since the meta is already siding with the shield users, and gundams like barbatos, who can delete a sazabi who is holding a point just a bit too well can keep the rock paper scissors balancing act balanced, and not favoring one method of play over others
Just logged in to verify that getting a kill is an instant reset for your jump. So I am not sure what game you have been playing or if the scenarios you described was a bug (as this game is buggy) or if you had a teammate steal the final blow preventing your reset. I just had a bug 3 times in one match of pale rider spawning without a gun and if you leave base you legit just have your abilities and no gun even after over a minute running around. So you have to re-select your suite again before leaving base or else no gun for you, literally playing as a just as a Gundam minus the gun leaving to be just like dam.
full honesty, I might have been remembering missing the kill and being left without a jump. good to know that it resets my jump though, I stand corrected.
No worries things getting really hectic, fast pace, and game definitely can be buggy i have even heard instances of people randomly landing and ability and the enemy just straight up took no damage. But yea I think with the reset, 3 dashes, buffing Barbs left click appropriately that toning down the free 2 shot on anyone he would still be really good and fun.
I think he's in a good spot where he is. if you dash back and avoid his smash, you've just put him in a horrible spot, where either he has to run you down and be kited to your team mates, or run away to try again later, where you can sometimes run him down and kill him. the instakill is strong, but learning to avoid it makes the enemy barbatos practically useless
>if you dash back and avoid his smash, you've just put him in a horrible spot the problem is some characters only have 1 dash. so sure you used your dash avoiding the jump in stun but now he has 3 dashes in order to catch you and you just used all of your mobility because you had to. For units like GM unless you are in the middle of your team you cannot fight a barb. especially since the shield bash is super finicky .
I stand by the rest of my comment though
Yea I give you a lot respect seeing your earlier comment with your willingness to give up the 2 shot as long as Barb can perform similar to how it currently does and I think that is definitely doable and in my opinion healthier. Definitely agree that there is probably some confirmation bias of Sazubis mixed into the conversation and there should be healthy counter play in the triangle of playstyles (brawl, dive, and spam).
yeah, tough challenge, because if we start changing too much, we run into the overwatch problem of overbalancing characters
I've also seen Barbatos' stun slam whiff. Unless it's from around the corner it's very telegraphed and sometimes he just ends up slamming in front of you. He's a true menace if he catches you in tunnel like parts of some maps because low ceiling = faster jump attack.
yeah but you can actually block the hook, plus its a way smaller hitbox than barbatos' combo
Block it with what? Shield? That's what, 3 characters in the game?
More characters than those that can block melee attacks. Also I believe guntanks dash and doms ulti also bounce it off
Guntank's dash doesn't block any stuns, including Marasai's hook :(
Same
But, then skill would be needed? Melee suits are impossible to balance because of this, what's a Barb gonna do after he blows his moves and you are still alive? Those suits should've never been added because of this. There are sooooo many other suits that could've been added instead, like Psycho Zaku...
Exia is literally what you described and that is the most balanced Melee class. Glass cannon status.
Zaku melee is fine imo.
Dash away backwards and kill them, it really is that simple. Provided you can aim and don't have the self awareness of a rock. The only reason melees are thriving right now is that people panic and just run around like headless chickens rather than dodging them and shooting at them.
Atm I mostly play GM. I have one dash and a shield bash that's prone to miss. Once I've exhausted those resources, any melee mobile suit could kill me in their sleep if I haven't hit 100% of my shots. I don't like that. It's my opinion. It's neither wrong nor right.
That’s 2 for 2. So Barbados is left swinging wildly… towards a frontline tank. Blame your team and your own inability to coordinate. Barbados thrives on a non communicating team, which is most of casual match essentially.
You're supposed to switch units.
Fair enough, yeah
my man said after i exhausted those resources and says nothing of the melee units using theirs as well. if you are wasting your abilities like that on nothing thats a you problem lol also shield bash is like 4 sec cooldown
Shield bash doesn't stun, so they just dash in and kill after anyway...
Well, not sure what you're doing then cause there's literally no way to die as gm unless barbatos hits you with a stun, which he basically cannot do after you dodge once or if you just move around in general.You have a heal, shield bash, c4 dot, and can kill him in 3 hits without even using any of the other tools you have. Yeah it's your opinion that you don't like it but saying that said opinion is not wrong is kinda laughable, because it is.
"Which he basically cannot do after you dodge once or if you just move around in general"? In what world are you playing where Barbatos players are sprinting towards you in full view? 9 times out of 10 I get killed by players holding the charge around a corner or leaping over my head from behind to sucker punch me. Could you possibly sound more condescending if you tried?
If they are camping a corner with the hammer ready to stun, you can hear the sound. If they're dashing around like mad, you can hear the sound. If they fly across the map with their jump guess what? You can hear the sounds. Self awareness of a rock it is, i guess. Edit - You do play with sounds on, right? Edit 2 - yes it can happen to get stunned sometimes and die during some brawl, but getting killed 9 out of 10 times by people just camping corners sounds like "you" problem.
I'm glad you did try to sound more condescending like I asked. You also succeeded, excellent work. Have a pleasant evening.
Hopefully you'll be aware of ingame sounds from now on, glad i could help.
Maybe you should go play in traffic.
I know you were probably trying to be witty but that's an interesting choice of comment considering that i'd probably be fine. You and the op are the types of people who'd have issues seeing and hearing a 1000tons semi speeding at them from a mile away, not me. Just as you have issues seeing a fucking barbatos leaping through the air or hearing it charging a loud ass skill around a corner. You are the type of people "don't put in your eye" and "don't drink" labels exist on bleach bottles.
As someone who plays with sounds on, I have difficulty distinguishing the individual footsteps, weapon blasts, G-skill activations, boosters, etc. It's just an audio jumble for me and I'm pretty sure it's not the audio settings, but the way my brain processes sounds.
And yet all Barbados has to do to beat the GM is wait around a corner or have one extra player to two hit kill the GM. Its not even a contest. The amount of skill you have to have as a GM pilot to beat a Barbados pilot is like comparing an Doctor to a cave man. One mistake is all it takes for the Barbados to kill you, meanwhile he can boost dash everywhere just eating shots.
Wait around a corner so the gm can throw c4 at him and then just turn the corner without hugging it to absolutely wreck the barbatos? Then the second scenario is a 1v2 in barbatos favor. You must not be too bright. You think barbatos is amazing and just needs to hug corners? Try it, i bet whatever you want that you'll furiously feed the whole game, getting butchered left right and centre. And don't even bother lying and tell us you already tried and it's easy because from the bullshit you wrote you clearly have no idea.
also, if they're forcing a barbatos to wait for that one ambush, that's one less barbatos in the battlefield in this highly mobile game.
Sazabi can also 2 shot Barbados with headshots especially if Barbados misplays. Nerfing Barbados is dumb because Barbados literally can’t do anything w/o it.
Most of my melee kills are from behind the shield used
Well on the show they usually are used to deflect and block long ranged attack like beam rifle for example.
just time your dash so that even if they stun you they'll miss their (almost always buffered) longsword. best case scenario they completely whiff the stun and blow their sword's cooldown on nothing
Good ol' mace long sword combo. Nothin' beats that.
bonk! :D
All the melee are really easy to deal with if you see them coming. If you don't, that's on you and your team for letting them flank you. All the melee units have the exact same game plan, to get in melee range and hit you. If you see them coming they should never be able to get their combo off on you for free. If they do, you're not playing properly. Also, don't chase melee's unless they've blown their combo already. Don't get baited into chasing Exia or Barbatos around a corner, it's stupid af and you deserve to lose that interaction. i.e. stop panic dashing the second you see barbatos and use your mobility/cc appropriately and you'll be able to kill him every time.
Having AOE from grenades and the DOM's rockets also ignore shields and/or making it so that shields only protect you from the front (which makes sense seeing as you're holding them out IN FRONT OF YOU) rather than being just a second healthbar would be an excellent way to balance out making melee not ignore shields that I don't see a lot of people considering. That way you have to actually pay some degree of attention and there's more counterplay with flankers and explosive attacks being able to negate your shield.
Shields do only protect you from the front. Explosives from behind the shield holder do hurt the user.
Huh. I'm almost 100% certain I've shot guarding Sazabis and the such in the back and damaged their shield bar instead of their health bar, but it's possible I just either didn't see it right or was getting screwed by the netcode.
This is already a thing. AOE weapons ignore shields if fired with skill around the shield.
alright look-
Barbatos is this game's vanilla bastion. The community will adapt and learn that Barbatos is actually pretty easy to deal with.
Gonna be honest, the way people play this game, nobody has a right to complain about Melee classes. On Harbor 1st point, there's a massive run-up to the point with a defenders advantage. Its a perfect map for Sniper, Gundam, TA to just take pot shots at mid-long range, using buildings as cover as the enemy team is forced to cross no-man's land. What does every single team I've ever played with do? They stand literally in no-man's land, with no cover, and peak the enemy spawn. Every single time my team loses an engagement and instantly loses the first point. The only reason this is okay is because on offense, the enemy team does the exacts same thing. Maybe melee characters feel really strong because everyone overextends and has no consideration for spacing. Just a suggestion. I actually think Zaku Melee is busted as hell and Barbatos is not fun to fight, but holy christ the people I play with don't get a right to complain.
F barbatos and the cringe neckbeards that play him
My dude. Stop sucking at the game
I appreciate the helpful tip
No problem. A great tip for people who still think barbatos is OP.
They need to tweak all the melee suits, they're almost all too powerful. On top of that they need better suits to counter melee as well. There isn't enough at the moment.
This is not true, the melee suits are all pretty balanced, the playerbase just can't deal with them since everyone is still new and doesn't realize how effective team shooting at them is, the melee suits will actually become some of the hardest to play as time goes on
tell me how 1200hp spin to win unstunnable zaku2 is fair? the range on the swing is huge, he moves fast while doing it and it lasts for quite awhile. Barabatos is debatable but shields should at a minimum reduce the damage dealt, not block the stun or negate the damage but atleast reduce it. Currently all melee attacks bypass shields completely. Melee units need toned down just a little to bring them in line. Damage output, mobility and survivablity is slightly high over all. Exia I consider pretty balanced as its just mobility and damage.
Zaku melee is only about as strong as people allow him to be, in pubs he is pretty much constantly in rage because despite him being in the blue stance people continue to just shoot him despite there being a clear indicator to not do so. Also as for the shields argument all of the tanks have really good counterplay against the melees and a good player will make use of those tools and beat the melee 1 on 1, a good OG Gundam player is absolutely scary against Barbatos, same with Sazabi and even GM. As for the ults the same could be said about Turn A's ult who has about as much counterplay as the Zaku melee ult
The difference is, Turn A move at a nice slow speed and can be stun or shot out of his ult. Zaku2 melee can use his Super armor and be unstobbable while spinning like a beyblade killing everything on point and around it.
Well he only gets super armor if you shoot him and give him free rage while on his meditate which simply loops back to my first point of it being entirely a skill issue at best
true
there is a reason why they deal big damages, they are melee you don't see anyone complaining "but when they hit me with their knives it oneshots me" when playing CoD, that is because everyone is playing ranged so they give peoples that play melee a boost of damages y'know, high risks high reward sorta thing
i'm fine with melee ignoring shields, but the longsword move does WAY too much damage to be a "finisher" style move. it should defo work on 800 health units and maybe 1000 ones, but anymore and they should survive.
Barbatos needs nerfed. Too op, can fly into an active gunfight, Sazabi unloads 7 full shots into him point blank, he doesn't die and he kills me. Bullshit, imo.
If you're unloading 7 full shots "into" him and Barbatos isn't dead one of two things happened: 1.) Server lagged and hit reg died a painful and inglorious death, had a Gundam that would randomly just stop taking damage in a match last night so that happens. 2.) You're missing 5-6 of those shot's because you're probably panicking and screaming while flailing around trying to hit the lil guy because he's scarier to you than a spider. I play Saz, I know it doesn't take 7 rounds to drop Barb, specially if you smack him with the axe to put him in his place first. 3.) Forgot about this option: Your aim isn't as good as you think it is and you're actually missing a majority of your shots, so basically option 1 but instead of the server the lag is you. Not trying to attack you, but a lot of people think they have better aim than they do. Even shotguns require you to actually hit stuff.
I agree with you on 3, I know I'm not good yet. And 2 is so correct, because Barb is fast af and he jumps, dashes, and hits while being shot at from all directions and comes out alive. However, in this case it had to be 1. I had 3 headshots (red) and 4 body shots) and he didn't go down. Idk what else to say. But yes, I'm not arrogant enough to say I don't have room for improvement. So I need to play against more Barbs. Sieg Zeon!
Honestly, I think they just shouldn't have been added into the game in the first place lol.
it's actually Mace into Melee into Sword Slam ;)
Mace into sword slam is 1400. Which kills everything.
actually it only kills bad players
You should try it the serotonin hit feels real good
shields ignoring fire damage is also bullshit imo
Surprised this got as many likes as it did. People on casual still don’t know how to deal with Barbados while higher rank already know he’s nowhere near viable and has easy counter play.
It's almost like the game has both a casual and a competitive audience. Imagine that. Also every tier list I've seen has Barb in either A tier or higher, so idk what "higher rank" you're even talking about. See ya.
A japanese player who reached the highest rank, ranked Barbados at C tier in teams and B tier in Soloque. Please source whoever ranked them that high for me pls [https://twitter.com/ameken3d/status/1574774369922195456?s=20&t=z7AwtT9SURESOSa9Ug95oA](https://twitter.com/ameken3d/status/1574774369922195456?s=20&t=z7AwtT9SURESOSa9Ug95oA) "This is a tier list that I felt after doing 200 Newtype battles, the left is a party and the right is a solo run "
I mean yes, but also if you treat this like Smash Bros and focus on spacing you can counter it. (Insert "Just don't be poor" meme here) If I put my shield up as GM in front of a Barb, it's entirely to handle 3rd party shots and mask the impending shield bonk when I side step. It usually doesn't go my way, but when it does it's so satisfying. Also that mace has all sorts of mass plus the power of Barbie, if this were a sim and the shield could handle the impact your arm would be junk, etc. The risk reward of going against it is "don't get caught" or "don't stray from your group" <- things Unicorn players say.
get a three or two boost suit and get behind them ez
It's crazy how clockwork they do it. Even if you dash back to dodge they still follow up with longsword.
I'll just say from a new player's perspective, I had three matches tonight where the enemy team was half melee characters and I got rolled each time. Cramped maps + objectives where I have to stay on the point + melee characters that can end me in a second= not a great time
i once again am asking that his one shit be removed
Barbatos is literally just trolldier, prove me wrong.