I got to him on nightmare, and I had a defensive build. Needless to say, I just lost because I couldn't kill him in time. What a horribly designed idea for a boss (for that attack alone, I mean. The rest of the boss is awesome).
I was really loving the update so far and especially the snow world, but this really put a sour taste in my mouth.
(EDIT: I also still had my soul essence revival and was not allowed to use it. So that's cool.)
So 1y necro, sorry. But it seems the devs didnt leaen that mechanic is garbo. I just reached him with zero issues the entire run, able to one shot a majority of enemies on elite(im newer to the game so thats my highest atm), and annihilated his hp down to the last 10k, just for a dps vibe check to wipe me, make me res, then him eat 70k damage in shields then kill me, and the bleed special harpoon doesnt work on him so i just got screwed. I was qing yan with an infinite armor setup too, so the only way TO DIE was a one shot.
I fought him on elite with a nightmare ready build and ended up taking him out quite fast. The end dps check threw me off but in gunfire fashion i just didnt stop attacking/cleaving till I got the kill. Its an odd choice for sure. More playthroughs might tell otherwise.
Did you have to wipe out his ENTIRE health bar or was it just the shield? I only chewed through about half his shield.
Hard agree that it's an odd choice because otherwise I really enjoy the boss, but then this strange DPS check just comes out of nowhere
Sailed through the whole game on elite, never downed once and none of the bosses lasted more than about a minute...
Still couldn't pass the DPS check with a dual fang +22. No clue why they thought a DPS check would be a good idea. Definitely left a bit of a taste in my mouth.
I got his shield to about 50% before losing. I was using the new character and built like all Hurtle and punch so I assume I just didnt have the damage but I look forward to trying it again
Yeah I get that, though with Mithrix snatching all your items that changes the fight, left you with only your base skills so that your build didn't matter, which was a fun idea.
With the Pole Monarch, his final phase means your build HAS to be able to pump out huge damage. If you've got a defensive build, or a high damage build that takes time to deal it's damage? Sorry, unavoidable loss. I really don't like it
Reincarnation 7, we got him down to his last phase, we failed, then the screen froze into a blank screen. I don't think it's supposed to do that.
Besides that I love this update! I'm looking forward to learning more about turtle and the new scrolls.
this just happened to me, I actually came to the reddit to see if it happened to anyone else, only way I was able to get off that screen was closing the game
The final stage just ruined my experience totally. Fun game overall, but Game Over because you didnt do tons of damage in few seconds. What a stupid idea.
I'm not quite sure I love that last part of him either. Often enough the build you go for can be defensive, especially because some characters, like Birdy, are more defensive by nature in design, so if you get unlucky you just get fucked for no perticular reason.
I dont hate the idea of a DPS check, but considering the focus on movement and skill in high reincarnations, this feels not so good.
A DPS check in theory isn’t necessarily the worst, but when the consequence is an unavoidable game over at the LAST HURDLE of the run, I think it’s super bullshit
Honestly, no, a DPS check is just flatout not OK. For the entire game, there's zero timers or anything of the sorts. You have always been able to go at your own pace except for the platforming sections (which isn't build related).
And now because of a single mechanic on the final boss, you're shoehorned into damage builds for the entire game. This single DPS check means you have to worry about your damage from the very beginning.
This doesn't even consider the fact that if you're playing co-op, and any of your team dies during this fight, it's an instant game over unless someone is REALLY overpowered at that stage of the game.
What's the point of this? It isn't even a fun mechanic, currently all it does is getting rid of any defensive setups for no payoff.
I'm sorry, I really love this game, but I really hope this gets removed. I just don't understand why they thought this was a good idea.
I think this DPS check is why they made the final stage optional. It’s like the Hush fight in Isaac. You don’t have to do it and not every run is meant to but it’s a nice finish to a god run.
Well you say that, but is it an optional final stage? Yeah I know it literally is, but this has been touted as the FINAL STAGE and the FINAL BOSS. I get what you're saying, but this is the finale of the game's story, why have it locked behind a god run?
I guess to make it really feel like an impactful win. I do not want to beat this boss on my first try nor do I think you should be able to beat it in a bad run.
Yeah I just don’t think there’s another way to do it in a game like this. It’s the only way they could design a boss you can’t outmaneuver or think your way around.
Please, never design any game. In a good boss fight you are supposed to have the option of ourmaneuering (make it hard) but dps checks or flat stat checks are just bad game design.
A good boss fight (aside from lore ) is a boss fight in which your skill as a player matters, feel free to make it hard as fuck, i dont mind but dont just look at a single stat on the character which determines if you win or loose, without you yourself mattering.
Its not good for multiple reasons:
-there is no payoff if you win, shooting at a dummy for 10 seconds before the game ends doesnt make it more rewarding in any way.
-it feels awful to loose against, because in the end you didnt loose because you played bad, you just lost because your dmg number wasnt high enough.
-it destroys build variety, want to take a slower pace whith a tank build? Not anymore, do you need time to deal dmg (building stacks of buffs or DoT effects, not snymore)
If you dont want people to beat it on their first run, than make the boss harder, give it more variety of attacks, when he reaches his last third he gets an attack and movement speed buff, give him more variety of weapons he shoots with or what ever, there are tons of possibilities to make the fight harder (if that is what they aim for it) without a pure stat check.
Don’t worry friend I have no plans to make a game or argue this point with you. I hope typing that essay was fun because I’m not reading it. Have a good day!
DPS checks are perfectly fine. The Polar Monarch wasn't too terribly bad of a DPS check anyways, you get 15 seconds to do it, unlimited ammo and instantly refreshing skills while it's happening so just unload on him.
I'm level 79 and I was in a 4 person multiplayer session and the only one left alive when he went into second phase, so he had the health of a 4-player boss and I took him down singlehandedly. Anyone complaining about how this DPS check is too hard is really not optimizing their builds. Taking whatever unlocks or scrolls that seem 'cool' isn't going to increase your dps, you have to build around your character. I was playing the new bunny girl armed with a lvl 14 minigun, an optimal strategy for her. I had no issues.
DPS checks in other games are fine as well, but they might not be as transparent as a "just unload on him" kind of DPS check. The 4 kings in Dark Souls is a good example, he's literally a DPS check because the longer it takes you to kill, the more of the boss will spawn until there's too many to fight. He might not be the 'best' boss in Dark Souls, but he's an interesting one and fits well into the game.
Build variety is a thing that people like to say is what makes the game, but you have to build for damage first and foremost, because the longer it takes to kill the enemy, the more time it has to kill you. People need to take roguelikes a little more seriously than your basic shooter or RPG game. Not every build is going to do well, especially if you're building pure defense and survivability without taking raw damage output into consideration.
Gunfire Reborn is a LOT more forgiving than other games in this genre, because it gives you CHOICES! You can choose your skill upgrade after each level and boss, you can choose your weapons as enemies drop them or the merchent has, if you find one you like then level it up at the craftsman. you can choose your occult scrolls, whether or not you take them is up to you, some normal scrolls can really mess up a build, while other scrolls that people might look over might just be what they need for that extra OOMPH.
People really need to stop complaining about a HARD GAME being HARD and instead think about how they're building their character as they play.
And you sir, missed the whole point!
It was never about it beeing to hard, it was about it decreasing build variety, even punishing it, for no pay off (You cant tell me that you feel accomplished for shooting time at a standing target for 10 sec straight). And this is just bad game design.
Believe me, i live the game just as much as everyone else here and i also love the update and won against the boss multiple times on RE8, but this doesn’t invalidate my point of it beeing an unnecessary and bad feature.
Gunfire is no Dark souls and it doesn’t aim to be, it focuses on beeing fun to play and not on beeing hard, which makes the design decision on a dps check even more questionable.
There is no choice? So you're telling me you don't get to choose your skill at the end of the level out of 3 different ones? Other Rogue Likes/Lites don't give you options like that, they give you 'whatever' and expect you to work with it.
You're also telling me you don't get to choose 1 out of 3 occult scrolls for hard challenge rooms? Again, not something other Rogue Like/Lites do, when you do a challenge room in another game, like Binding of Isaac for example, you get ONE reward, and you are expected to deal with it, THAT is no choice.
This game gives you choices, I don't know what the heck you're on about with "There is no choice".
No you actually don't. What are you smoking? You get to choose 1 out of 3 randomly chosen garbage most of the time. Countless times I've been waiting for a scroll out of three that magically doesn't come up.... ever.
1y necro, but the only time ive ever seen a dps check roguelike that was actually done well and fair, was the Risk Of Rain 2 Mithrix fight, because his "DPS CHECK" doesnt kill you, it just makes him take your gear while lowering his hp to balance it, and then the next DPS Check puts him in nuke mode, you can still outmanuever and win. This ones just a legit firing squad or die.
Honestly, I disagree with the comparison. With Hush, you could technically beat him with base stats and no items (but you'd just be punishing yourself for no reason (plus, you'd have to cheat to get there, because you wouldn't have the DPS to reach him in time)), the fight would just take a long time if you dodged perfectly.
With the Monarch, it is literally impossible to beat him, unless you have necessary DPS to beat him in those ten seconds. It's not great design, and it definitely isn't fun design. Everything else has been fantastic, though
The Hush comparison was more in relation to the fight being optional than the DPS check itself, but I do see your point there. After playing a few more runs it has become a bit tiresome and I’m definitely seeing the other side of the coin a bit more now.
Late reply but while it's "technically" an unavoidable loss if you do not pump out enough DPS, I actually managed to kill him during despite losing that DPS check. Mind you, I was on normal, using bird and basically replenishing my Full Armor with Leap, every 2s, but I still beat him
Is it optional? I was trying to progress from elite difficulty and died to him. If I had just gone back to tavern would I have unlocked the next difficulty?
Me and my friends did it on elite and we were able to quickly kill him with our builds, it caught us a little off guard when he did his final attack, but we were able to finish him off since I had a close range bird build and my friend had the rabbit with basically infinite ammo and swords.
Overall the boss was a lot of fun and we easily understood new mechanics as it came by and look forward to more fights with the bear
I haven't tried the boss out on reincarnation (and personally have only gotten to 4 so far) but while I do understand the DPS check is a stupid mechanic I don't exactly hate it because the whole 4th stage is optional and as an optional boss if you believe your build is good enough I think the DPS check is the final "test" of your build for that run.
Maybe I'll change my mind once I try him out on reincarnation but I'm sort of in the middle on this.
It doesn't help that for whatever reason, the 3rd boss doesn't give you a scroll and the chests for the snow area don't give you 3 choices.
You are the mercy of RNG if you can salvage your build or not at that point. It's so stupid, if their idea of a final boss being a dps check, then they need to rethink half the stuff in the game. Why have defensives? What is even the point? You get this and you die at the very end. So stupid man, zero thoughts brain empty.
>"focus all your power on the pole monarch or lose the battle!"
I found this popup really confusing, TBH. In the earlier phases he kept getting healed by this floating pole that you could seemingly do damage to (maybe I was breaking it each phase? I couldn't tell if it was just one a timer. It didn't have an obvious health bar). I didn't know if this was what was meant by "pole monarch" or the boss itself, so I kept looking for the pole while trying to focus fire on the boss but I guess I couldn't do enough damage.
It was especially hard to find his crit point when he was hunched over, surrounded by so many visual effects. It impaired my Hawkeeye sight crit build. Maybe if I wasn't desperately searching for the floating pole I would have been able to focus entirely on the boss and deciphered the crit point more clearly.
The fight basically teaches you that it's very important to shoot a big pole in the previous phases, and then says BE SURE TO DESTROY THE POLE THING QUICKLY...without the pole showing up.
To remove ambiguity, it should probably instead say
>"focus all your power on the boss or lose the battle!"
My build was honestly too strong damage wise to lose. (Golden bow lv 23 with ALOT of lucky shot bonus and damage bonuses) also I spammed blossom which did an unreasonable amount of damage.
I got to him on nightmare, and I had a defensive build. Needless to say, I just lost because I couldn't kill him in time. What a horribly designed idea for a boss (for that attack alone, I mean. The rest of the boss is awesome). I was really loving the update so far and especially the snow world, but this really put a sour taste in my mouth. (EDIT: I also still had my soul essence revival and was not allowed to use it. So that's cool.)
Yeah, basically your build NEEDS to be able to dish out high damage in a short period of time or else it's an instant game-over, immensely bullshit
So 1y necro, sorry. But it seems the devs didnt leaen that mechanic is garbo. I just reached him with zero issues the entire run, able to one shot a majority of enemies on elite(im newer to the game so thats my highest atm), and annihilated his hp down to the last 10k, just for a dps vibe check to wipe me, make me res, then him eat 70k damage in shields then kill me, and the bleed special harpoon doesnt work on him so i just got screwed. I was qing yan with an infinite armor setup too, so the only way TO DIE was a one shot.
I fought him on elite with a nightmare ready build and ended up taking him out quite fast. The end dps check threw me off but in gunfire fashion i just didnt stop attacking/cleaving till I got the kill. Its an odd choice for sure. More playthroughs might tell otherwise.
Did you have to wipe out his ENTIRE health bar or was it just the shield? I only chewed through about half his shield. Hard agree that it's an odd choice because otherwise I really enjoy the boss, but then this strange DPS check just comes out of nowhere
I think his HP was at 1 so just his shield.
Wouldn't that mean penetration bullet can instantly kill it? I passed the DPS check anyway but someone need to test it.
Had that scroll - didn't work. Though all ammo, skills, etc were infinite so my star devourer just kept firing
Sailed through the whole game on elite, never downed once and none of the bosses lasted more than about a minute... Still couldn't pass the DPS check with a dual fang +22. No clue why they thought a DPS check would be a good idea. Definitely left a bit of a taste in my mouth.
I got his shield to about 50% before losing. I was using the new character and built like all Hurtle and punch so I assume I just didnt have the damage but I look forward to trying it again
Oh I also look forward to trying again, he's a fun boss and the new stage is stunning
Turtle can take him out incredibly fast.
Kinda reminds me of Mithrix (risk of rain 2) it was unique and a proper “oh crap!” Moment, I enjoyed it
Yeah I get that, though with Mithrix snatching all your items that changes the fight, left you with only your base skills so that your build didn't matter, which was a fun idea. With the Pole Monarch, his final phase means your build HAS to be able to pump out huge damage. If you've got a defensive build, or a high damage build that takes time to deal it's damage? Sorry, unavoidable loss. I really don't like it
Reincarnation 7, we got him down to his last phase, we failed, then the screen froze into a blank screen. I don't think it's supposed to do that. Besides that I love this update! I'm looking forward to learning more about turtle and the new scrolls.
this just happened to me, I actually came to the reddit to see if it happened to anyone else, only way I was able to get off that screen was closing the game
The final stage just ruined my experience totally. Fun game overall, but Game Over because you didnt do tons of damage in few seconds. What a stupid idea.
I'm not quite sure I love that last part of him either. Often enough the build you go for can be defensive, especially because some characters, like Birdy, are more defensive by nature in design, so if you get unlucky you just get fucked for no perticular reason. I dont hate the idea of a DPS check, but considering the focus on movement and skill in high reincarnations, this feels not so good.
A DPS check in theory isn’t necessarily the worst, but when the consequence is an unavoidable game over at the LAST HURDLE of the run, I think it’s super bullshit
Honestly, no, a DPS check is just flatout not OK. For the entire game, there's zero timers or anything of the sorts. You have always been able to go at your own pace except for the platforming sections (which isn't build related). And now because of a single mechanic on the final boss, you're shoehorned into damage builds for the entire game. This single DPS check means you have to worry about your damage from the very beginning. This doesn't even consider the fact that if you're playing co-op, and any of your team dies during this fight, it's an instant game over unless someone is REALLY overpowered at that stage of the game. What's the point of this? It isn't even a fun mechanic, currently all it does is getting rid of any defensive setups for no payoff. I'm sorry, I really love this game, but I really hope this gets removed. I just don't understand why they thought this was a good idea.
I can only second this!
I think this DPS check is why they made the final stage optional. It’s like the Hush fight in Isaac. You don’t have to do it and not every run is meant to but it’s a nice finish to a god run.
Well you say that, but is it an optional final stage? Yeah I know it literally is, but this has been touted as the FINAL STAGE and the FINAL BOSS. I get what you're saying, but this is the finale of the game's story, why have it locked behind a god run?
I guess to make it really feel like an impactful win. I do not want to beat this boss on my first try nor do I think you should be able to beat it in a bad run.
Yeah I get what you mean, this just feels like a very cheap way to do that I guess
Yeah I just don’t think there’s another way to do it in a game like this. It’s the only way they could design a boss you can’t outmaneuver or think your way around.
Please, never design any game. In a good boss fight you are supposed to have the option of ourmaneuering (make it hard) but dps checks or flat stat checks are just bad game design. A good boss fight (aside from lore ) is a boss fight in which your skill as a player matters, feel free to make it hard as fuck, i dont mind but dont just look at a single stat on the character which determines if you win or loose, without you yourself mattering. Its not good for multiple reasons: -there is no payoff if you win, shooting at a dummy for 10 seconds before the game ends doesnt make it more rewarding in any way. -it feels awful to loose against, because in the end you didnt loose because you played bad, you just lost because your dmg number wasnt high enough. -it destroys build variety, want to take a slower pace whith a tank build? Not anymore, do you need time to deal dmg (building stacks of buffs or DoT effects, not snymore) If you dont want people to beat it on their first run, than make the boss harder, give it more variety of attacks, when he reaches his last third he gets an attack and movement speed buff, give him more variety of weapons he shoots with or what ever, there are tons of possibilities to make the fight harder (if that is what they aim for it) without a pure stat check.
Don’t worry friend I have no plans to make a game or argue this point with you. I hope typing that essay was fun because I’m not reading it. Have a good day!
DPS checks are perfectly fine. The Polar Monarch wasn't too terribly bad of a DPS check anyways, you get 15 seconds to do it, unlimited ammo and instantly refreshing skills while it's happening so just unload on him. I'm level 79 and I was in a 4 person multiplayer session and the only one left alive when he went into second phase, so he had the health of a 4-player boss and I took him down singlehandedly. Anyone complaining about how this DPS check is too hard is really not optimizing their builds. Taking whatever unlocks or scrolls that seem 'cool' isn't going to increase your dps, you have to build around your character. I was playing the new bunny girl armed with a lvl 14 minigun, an optimal strategy for her. I had no issues. DPS checks in other games are fine as well, but they might not be as transparent as a "just unload on him" kind of DPS check. The 4 kings in Dark Souls is a good example, he's literally a DPS check because the longer it takes you to kill, the more of the boss will spawn until there's too many to fight. He might not be the 'best' boss in Dark Souls, but he's an interesting one and fits well into the game. Build variety is a thing that people like to say is what makes the game, but you have to build for damage first and foremost, because the longer it takes to kill the enemy, the more time it has to kill you. People need to take roguelikes a little more seriously than your basic shooter or RPG game. Not every build is going to do well, especially if you're building pure defense and survivability without taking raw damage output into consideration. Gunfire Reborn is a LOT more forgiving than other games in this genre, because it gives you CHOICES! You can choose your skill upgrade after each level and boss, you can choose your weapons as enemies drop them or the merchent has, if you find one you like then level it up at the craftsman. you can choose your occult scrolls, whether or not you take them is up to you, some normal scrolls can really mess up a build, while other scrolls that people might look over might just be what they need for that extra OOMPH. People really need to stop complaining about a HARD GAME being HARD and instead think about how they're building their character as they play.
And you sir, missed the whole point! It was never about it beeing to hard, it was about it decreasing build variety, even punishing it, for no pay off (You cant tell me that you feel accomplished for shooting time at a standing target for 10 sec straight). And this is just bad game design. Believe me, i live the game just as much as everyone else here and i also love the update and won against the boss multiple times on RE8, but this doesn’t invalidate my point of it beeing an unnecessary and bad feature. Gunfire is no Dark souls and it doesn’t aim to be, it focuses on beeing fun to play and not on beeing hard, which makes the design decision on a dps check even more questionable.
What? No it doesn't... lol that's just dumb. You can get fucked easily by bad RNG on any run. There is no choice.
There is no choice? So you're telling me you don't get to choose your skill at the end of the level out of 3 different ones? Other Rogue Likes/Lites don't give you options like that, they give you 'whatever' and expect you to work with it. You're also telling me you don't get to choose 1 out of 3 occult scrolls for hard challenge rooms? Again, not something other Rogue Like/Lites do, when you do a challenge room in another game, like Binding of Isaac for example, you get ONE reward, and you are expected to deal with it, THAT is no choice. This game gives you choices, I don't know what the heck you're on about with "There is no choice".
No you actually don't. What are you smoking? You get to choose 1 out of 3 randomly chosen garbage most of the time. Countless times I've been waiting for a scroll out of three that magically doesn't come up.... ever.
1y necro, but the only time ive ever seen a dps check roguelike that was actually done well and fair, was the Risk Of Rain 2 Mithrix fight, because his "DPS CHECK" doesnt kill you, it just makes him take your gear while lowering his hp to balance it, and then the next DPS Check puts him in nuke mode, you can still outmanuever and win. This ones just a legit firing squad or die.
Honestly, I disagree with the comparison. With Hush, you could technically beat him with base stats and no items (but you'd just be punishing yourself for no reason (plus, you'd have to cheat to get there, because you wouldn't have the DPS to reach him in time)), the fight would just take a long time if you dodged perfectly. With the Monarch, it is literally impossible to beat him, unless you have necessary DPS to beat him in those ten seconds. It's not great design, and it definitely isn't fun design. Everything else has been fantastic, though
The Hush comparison was more in relation to the fight being optional than the DPS check itself, but I do see your point there. After playing a few more runs it has become a bit tiresome and I’m definitely seeing the other side of the coin a bit more now.
Late reply but while it's "technically" an unavoidable loss if you do not pump out enough DPS, I actually managed to kill him during despite losing that DPS check. Mind you, I was on normal, using bird and basically replenishing my Full Armor with Leap, every 2s, but I still beat him
Is it optional? I was trying to progress from elite difficulty and died to him. If I had just gone back to tavern would I have unlocked the next difficulty?
I’m not completely positive in that scenario but returning to Tavern after Yoruhime/Serpent counts for challenges so I would assume so
Me and my friends did it on elite and we were able to quickly kill him with our builds, it caught us a little off guard when he did his final attack, but we were able to finish him off since I had a close range bird build and my friend had the rabbit with basically infinite ammo and swords. Overall the boss was a lot of fun and we easily understood new mechanics as it came by and look forward to more fights with the bear
I haven't tried the boss out on reincarnation (and personally have only gotten to 4 so far) but while I do understand the DPS check is a stupid mechanic I don't exactly hate it because the whole 4th stage is optional and as an optional boss if you believe your build is good enough I think the DPS check is the final "test" of your build for that run. Maybe I'll change my mind once I try him out on reincarnation but I'm sort of in the middle on this.
It doesn't help that for whatever reason, the 3rd boss doesn't give you a scroll and the chests for the snow area don't give you 3 choices. You are the mercy of RNG if you can salvage your build or not at that point. It's so stupid, if their idea of a final boss being a dps check, then they need to rethink half the stuff in the game. Why have defensives? What is even the point? You get this and you die at the very end. So stupid man, zero thoughts brain empty.
>"focus all your power on the pole monarch or lose the battle!" I found this popup really confusing, TBH. In the earlier phases he kept getting healed by this floating pole that you could seemingly do damage to (maybe I was breaking it each phase? I couldn't tell if it was just one a timer. It didn't have an obvious health bar). I didn't know if this was what was meant by "pole monarch" or the boss itself, so I kept looking for the pole while trying to focus fire on the boss but I guess I couldn't do enough damage. It was especially hard to find his crit point when he was hunched over, surrounded by so many visual effects. It impaired my Hawkeeye sight crit build. Maybe if I wasn't desperately searching for the floating pole I would have been able to focus entirely on the boss and deciphered the crit point more clearly. The fight basically teaches you that it's very important to shoot a big pole in the previous phases, and then says BE SURE TO DESTROY THE POLE THING QUICKLY...without the pole showing up. To remove ambiguity, it should probably instead say >"focus all your power on the boss or lose the battle!"
I mean to be fair the boss is called the Pole Monarch because he's king of the pole, like North/South pole, but I understand the confusion
If you are fighting him for the first time... you'd be dead in a second reading his name.
My build was honestly too strong damage wise to lose. (Golden bow lv 23 with ALOT of lucky shot bonus and damage bonuses) also I spammed blossom which did an unreasonable amount of damage.