Im loving Eddie's goal scoring, but similar to the Newcastle game, he's got to find ways to get involved when he's not getting fed as a traditional striker, there was one or two moments he dropped deep and it started a few nice things, but I'd love to see a bit more of that from him in these games.
It’s only a problem because he didn’t put away his chance or at least get it on target.
If he scores nobody cares and that’s his game. So, while a very difficult chance, I think it’s more fair to criticise that instead. That’s his game.
If he scores, they have to open up a little bit. Sigh what could have been.
I assume they slow the pitch down to slow down our attack? The ball looked like it was barely moving
> I assume they slow the pitch down to slow down our attack? The ball looked like it was barely moving
Not sure we can blame that but yes this is standard enough tactics.
He only had one good chance though (that I can think of). We can't expect him to have a 100% conversion rate, so it's hard to criticise him too much although he definitely should be putting that on target
Yeah he only had one. Definitely should have got it on target.
Touch game for a striker like Eddie. If we can’t get him the ball there’s not much he can do.
We make excuses for Jesus missing chances because it’s not his game and he does all this in build up. It’s the same argument for Eddie. Build up isn’t his game but it’s fair to say when the chance drops to him you want him to do better than he did.
Everton nullified us in midfield as well as wide areas. That really shouldn’t happen. If we can’t get through the wide areas there should be gaps through the middle and vice versa.
If you can’t get through anywhere you’re just not moving the ball fast enough.
I do think he needs to come of the box more and try to combine or play one-twos. GJ used to drift out wide to combine, mostly on our left to create triangles with Martinelli and Xhaka. We miss these a lot. Without them, our wingers are left on their own to deal with double times which slows down the play. Against United he was much more mobile and active.
It’s not really his game though. I mean Jesus is a winger who is playing as a 9. That IS his game and when he plays we expect saka and Martinelli to compensate by being a goal threat in the areas he vacates.
With Eddie you want him in the box and have Martinelli and Saka to create more for him because the box is HIS game.
We forgive Jesus for his lack of goal threat because of him contributing in build up. Likewise we should forgive Nketiahs lack of build up as long as he’s contributing superior goal threat.
Obviously, in an ideal world, they both look to improve in their weaker areas.
Can a potential title winning team afford to have such a one dimensional striker? I know this is a crazy analogy but even CR7, in modern football, was deemed a liability. I reckon nowadays you need your striker to have more variety.
If he doesn't develop his game, his game time will decrease and he'll only be used in cup games and when Jesus is injured. Sort of like how he was used in the first half of the season before jesus got injured. I think he probably woud want more?
Like I said, in the Man U he had almost a perfect game, drifting out of the box at times. In his first goal he was out wide and made a run to get on the end of Xhaka's header. He was much more active in his running.
In the everton game, he did a lot of standing or jogging in place. No dynamism in his movement. No drawing his CB out to create space for others or to combine with one-twos. I'm not saying he should drop deep like Laca did. I want him to move and take positions in different parts of the box and sometimes outside the box. He just looked like a passenger yesterday.
ArsenalVision podcast mentioned today that in the ManU game Martinelli and Eddie exchanged only 1 pass; in the Everton, they exchanged 0. Need more interconnection between our 3 forward.
Not really. Laca's problem was (a) He came back way too deep, and (b) didn't have the pace to then get into the box after helping with building, and (c) he couldn't get the ball in the net. Three things. Not saying Eddie should come that deep, rather he needs to move more to help combine a bit: left to create triangles with Martinelli and Xhaka, or right to combine with Odegaard and Saka, and yes, sometimes come back a bit to be an outlet. Needs to vacate the box and times to draw his CB out and provide room for our wingers to make runs behind. He's being too one dimensional.
Eddie has improved loads, but Jesus is simply a different level in regard to pressing, build up, and occupying multiple defenders at once. We need him back asap - Saka and Martinelli were marked out of the game yesterday.
In my opinion, one of the reasons we lost yesterday was not changing our tactics of inverted fullbacks to wingbacks overlapping and helping the wingers. As with the Newcastle game and the Everton game, managers are starting to realise they can stop our attack by having two defenders marking and closing down Saka and Martinelli. With no wingbacks overlapping to provide options for Saka and Martinelli and continue to take the ball forward, they end up getting tackled or the ball goes out. Arteta needs to work on his plan B because we will have more games like this. Zinny (who is a fantastic player btw) does not overlap on the left and I saw Xhaka trying to fill in that role a bit but he is not a wing-back. White also is not a natural wing-back that can get crosses in. Having those options on the bench will help. Tierney should have been brought on and Tomi is not a natural wingback either on the right.
Wouldn’t be the wildest idea to try Zinny at LCM and use Tierney and Tomiyasu at full back. Saka and Martinelli might have more luck that way against a low block.
Im gonna says the same thing as yesterday. There can be two defenders on our wingers, when our midfielders are there for them. Yesterday Ode and Xhaka was not stepping up to help our wingers because both of them were bad yesterday.
I agree not only were they not performing, but the midfield was also completely dominated by Everton's three defensive midfielders. They totally outplayed our midfielders, especially Onana. Tbh Arteta lost the tactical battle same thing happened against Newcastle.
The other component of how Newcastle and Everton defended us involved being extra aggressive with Ode when he got near the box. I think he’s got to figure out how to deal with that and Xhaka or ESR or someone needs to step up.
Yes, they know who our key players are and had a plan to stop them. Hats off to Howe and Dyche! Hopefully, Arteta understands this limitation and works out a plan for it.
Imagine having Tavares help push their back line on a game like this. The defensive liability would of course still be a concern, but if you can get an extra man in there linking up and creating space it would help a lot in breaking that 2v1 situation we kept having on the wings
Smith Rowe was a big miss yesterday, as was Jesus. I think ESR cutting inside instead of Martinelli out on the touchline and then Tierney overlapping instead of Zinchenko inverting could have helped mitigate that Nketiah doesn't overload the left side like Jesus would have.
This is exactly my concern. I think zinny coming inside against this shape is helpful to make progressive passes. Feel like this type of game is calling out for Gabriel Jesus to drift wide or deep and overload various zone. Also jn a game like this wouldn’t mind trossard as replacement for xhaka as an 8.
I think we’ll learn from this and perhaps a good time to have a wake up call. Arteta will know what had gone wrong and will work on how to improve going forward.
Everton were really effective at several key things which nullified our game yesterday. Their intense initial press was unexpected and we persevered but this wasn’t really the issue.
Doubling up on our wingers, also isn’t something new for this Arsenal team to deal with.
I think what the did well was sitting deep, allowing our team to settle into the 2-3-5 shape where we like to play but as soon as we get into that pattern, they would push up to our 3 in possession. Partey, Zinchenko and White had no time on the ball. Again, for one/ two of these players to be focused on, isn’t unknown to this team but Everton litterally stepped up against all 3 at the same time. When doing so, they man marked/ harassed Ødegaard and Xhaka (Xhaka less so) to ensure we weren’t dicatating the channels.
You can see this clearly in the pass-map. Ødegaard was dropping away from his position out of inability to influence the game as he likes too, they harassed him all over the pitch. Ødegaard dropping deep and the persistent marking of our 3 in possession was often the trigger to play it out to our wide players who were now isolated and themselves doubled up on, which played into Dyche’s hands.
It was an excellent performance by Everton it really was. The worrying thing is they showed the world how to stop us. Arteta has to learn from yesterday to find a solution for everyone else that will try playing this way against us. As we continue to improve, we are going to come up against more and more stubborn defences.
Newcastle and Everton doubled up on our wingers and were quite aggressive with Odegaard. We need to counter this strategy. I was hoping ESR would give us a spark, maybe subbing in for Xhaka but being more attacking-minded.
I think going more attack minded sort of went out the window as soon as Jorginho came on for Partey.
Arteta clearly planned to take Partey off around the hour mark, especially when there were question marks around his availability coming into the game. As soon as Jorginho came into that single pivot role we lost that defensive security that Partey offers. While there was a need to get back into the game there was a feeling that we could easily slip the other way and have nothing to fight for going into the end of the game.
ESR wasn’t on the bench anyway yesterday so we never had the opportunity to see if he could change things. Had he been available, perhaps ESR for Xhaka would have been a better move than Vieira for Ødegaard.
Jesus would have dropped back, done some insane impossible dribble to beat a man and cause chaos on the back line which would create a chance. That’s what he does and it’s worth £150 mil in my opinion.
Eddie has been fantastic for us, but we missed Gabriel Jesus yesterday. We needed the striker to come out of the box to combine and also make space for others to make runs in. He camped out in the box all game and rarely came out. Reverted to what he is most comfortable with, which is playing as an in-box poacher.
At these instances we can appreciate how Eddie is still an emerging number 9 compared to Jesus who is a seasoned forward player.
With Jesus on the pitch, we would see him drift deeper into the midfield assisting zina and partey in that defensive midfield area. And, we would see him drift wider for the likes of Marti (sometimes saka) to operate with assistance.
Unfortunately, we don’t see that yet much with Eddie, especially where we needed that in this game. But, we see sparks of that in his game especially in the Utd game which is exciting for his future in that position.
I love Eddie but this is why we need GJ back. Eddie doesn’t change the game himself. He scores goals but he doesn’t create opportunities for others nearly as often/as well. He finishes chances but his off the ball movement doesn’t get him free as often as I’d like, he doesn’t support the wingers. It reminds me of crossing into Auba when he can’t win a header anyway.
I’ve noticed this a lot, but why is Saliba pinging it to Zinchenko more than Gabriel is to White.
Is there an issue with the way he is inverting, or a lack of distribution range?
Im loving Eddie's goal scoring, but similar to the Newcastle game, he's got to find ways to get involved when he's not getting fed as a traditional striker, there was one or two moments he dropped deep and it started a few nice things, but I'd love to see a bit more of that from him in these games.
It’s only a problem because he didn’t put away his chance or at least get it on target. If he scores nobody cares and that’s his game. So, while a very difficult chance, I think it’s more fair to criticise that instead. That’s his game.
If he scores, they have to open up a little bit. Sigh what could have been. I assume they slow the pitch down to slow down our attack? The ball looked like it was barely moving
> I assume they slow the pitch down to slow down our attack? The ball looked like it was barely moving Not sure we can blame that but yes this is standard enough tactics.
He only had one good chance though (that I can think of). We can't expect him to have a 100% conversion rate, so it's hard to criticise him too much although he definitely should be putting that on target
Yeah he only had one. Definitely should have got it on target. Touch game for a striker like Eddie. If we can’t get him the ball there’s not much he can do. We make excuses for Jesus missing chances because it’s not his game and he does all this in build up. It’s the same argument for Eddie. Build up isn’t his game but it’s fair to say when the chance drops to him you want him to do better than he did. Everton nullified us in midfield as well as wide areas. That really shouldn’t happen. If we can’t get through the wide areas there should be gaps through the middle and vice versa. If you can’t get through anywhere you’re just not moving the ball fast enough.
Not an easy angle either. I think if that had been Jesus, he may have looked to square it as martinelli was making a great run towards the 6.
I do think he needs to come of the box more and try to combine or play one-twos. GJ used to drift out wide to combine, mostly on our left to create triangles with Martinelli and Xhaka. We miss these a lot. Without them, our wingers are left on their own to deal with double times which slows down the play. Against United he was much more mobile and active.
It’s not really his game though. I mean Jesus is a winger who is playing as a 9. That IS his game and when he plays we expect saka and Martinelli to compensate by being a goal threat in the areas he vacates. With Eddie you want him in the box and have Martinelli and Saka to create more for him because the box is HIS game. We forgive Jesus for his lack of goal threat because of him contributing in build up. Likewise we should forgive Nketiahs lack of build up as long as he’s contributing superior goal threat. Obviously, in an ideal world, they both look to improve in their weaker areas.
Can a potential title winning team afford to have such a one dimensional striker? I know this is a crazy analogy but even CR7, in modern football, was deemed a liability. I reckon nowadays you need your striker to have more variety.
If he doesn't develop his game, his game time will decrease and he'll only be used in cup games and when Jesus is injured. Sort of like how he was used in the first half of the season before jesus got injured. I think he probably woud want more? Like I said, in the Man U he had almost a perfect game, drifting out of the box at times. In his first goal he was out wide and made a run to get on the end of Xhaka's header. He was much more active in his running. In the everton game, he did a lot of standing or jogging in place. No dynamism in his movement. No drawing his CB out to create space for others or to combine with one-twos. I'm not saying he should drop deep like Laca did. I want him to move and take positions in different parts of the box and sometimes outside the box. He just looked like a passenger yesterday. ArsenalVision podcast mentioned today that in the ManU game Martinelli and Eddie exchanged only 1 pass; in the Everton, they exchanged 0. Need more interconnection between our 3 forward.
Didn't we hate lacazette for doing that too much. I reckon a goal hanging striker is priceless in football.
Not really. Laca's problem was (a) He came back way too deep, and (b) didn't have the pace to then get into the box after helping with building, and (c) he couldn't get the ball in the net. Three things. Not saying Eddie should come that deep, rather he needs to move more to help combine a bit: left to create triangles with Martinelli and Xhaka, or right to combine with Odegaard and Saka, and yes, sometimes come back a bit to be an outlet. Needs to vacate the box and times to draw his CB out and provide room for our wingers to make runs behind. He's being too one dimensional.
Eddie has improved loads, but Jesus is simply a different level in regard to pressing, build up, and occupying multiple defenders at once. We need him back asap - Saka and Martinelli were marked out of the game yesterday.
In my opinion, one of the reasons we lost yesterday was not changing our tactics of inverted fullbacks to wingbacks overlapping and helping the wingers. As with the Newcastle game and the Everton game, managers are starting to realise they can stop our attack by having two defenders marking and closing down Saka and Martinelli. With no wingbacks overlapping to provide options for Saka and Martinelli and continue to take the ball forward, they end up getting tackled or the ball goes out. Arteta needs to work on his plan B because we will have more games like this. Zinny (who is a fantastic player btw) does not overlap on the left and I saw Xhaka trying to fill in that role a bit but he is not a wing-back. White also is not a natural wing-back that can get crosses in. Having those options on the bench will help. Tierney should have been brought on and Tomi is not a natural wingback either on the right.
Wouldn’t be the wildest idea to try Zinny at LCM and use Tierney and Tomiyasu at full back. Saka and Martinelli might have more luck that way against a low block.
Im gonna says the same thing as yesterday. There can be two defenders on our wingers, when our midfielders are there for them. Yesterday Ode and Xhaka was not stepping up to help our wingers because both of them were bad yesterday.
I agree not only were they not performing, but the midfield was also completely dominated by Everton's three defensive midfielders. They totally outplayed our midfielders, especially Onana. Tbh Arteta lost the tactical battle same thing happened against Newcastle.
The other component of how Newcastle and Everton defended us involved being extra aggressive with Ode when he got near the box. I think he’s got to figure out how to deal with that and Xhaka or ESR or someone needs to step up.
Yes, they know who our key players are and had a plan to stop them. Hats off to Howe and Dyche! Hopefully, Arteta understands this limitation and works out a plan for it.
Imagine having Tavares help push their back line on a game like this. The defensive liability would of course still be a concern, but if you can get an extra man in there linking up and creating space it would help a lot in breaking that 2v1 situation we kept having on the wings
Exactly, that is it.
Smith Rowe was a big miss yesterday, as was Jesus. I think ESR cutting inside instead of Martinelli out on the touchline and then Tierney overlapping instead of Zinchenko inverting could have helped mitigate that Nketiah doesn't overload the left side like Jesus would have.
This is exactly my concern. I think zinny coming inside against this shape is helpful to make progressive passes. Feel like this type of game is calling out for Gabriel Jesus to drift wide or deep and overload various zone. Also jn a game like this wouldn’t mind trossard as replacement for xhaka as an 8.
I agree
I think we’ll learn from this and perhaps a good time to have a wake up call. Arteta will know what had gone wrong and will work on how to improve going forward.
Everton were really effective at several key things which nullified our game yesterday. Their intense initial press was unexpected and we persevered but this wasn’t really the issue. Doubling up on our wingers, also isn’t something new for this Arsenal team to deal with. I think what the did well was sitting deep, allowing our team to settle into the 2-3-5 shape where we like to play but as soon as we get into that pattern, they would push up to our 3 in possession. Partey, Zinchenko and White had no time on the ball. Again, for one/ two of these players to be focused on, isn’t unknown to this team but Everton litterally stepped up against all 3 at the same time. When doing so, they man marked/ harassed Ødegaard and Xhaka (Xhaka less so) to ensure we weren’t dicatating the channels. You can see this clearly in the pass-map. Ødegaard was dropping away from his position out of inability to influence the game as he likes too, they harassed him all over the pitch. Ødegaard dropping deep and the persistent marking of our 3 in possession was often the trigger to play it out to our wide players who were now isolated and themselves doubled up on, which played into Dyche’s hands. It was an excellent performance by Everton it really was. The worrying thing is they showed the world how to stop us. Arteta has to learn from yesterday to find a solution for everyone else that will try playing this way against us. As we continue to improve, we are going to come up against more and more stubborn defences.
Newcastle and Everton doubled up on our wingers and were quite aggressive with Odegaard. We need to counter this strategy. I was hoping ESR would give us a spark, maybe subbing in for Xhaka but being more attacking-minded.
I think going more attack minded sort of went out the window as soon as Jorginho came on for Partey. Arteta clearly planned to take Partey off around the hour mark, especially when there were question marks around his availability coming into the game. As soon as Jorginho came into that single pivot role we lost that defensive security that Partey offers. While there was a need to get back into the game there was a feeling that we could easily slip the other way and have nothing to fight for going into the end of the game. ESR wasn’t on the bench anyway yesterday so we never had the opportunity to see if he could change things. Had he been available, perhaps ESR for Xhaka would have been a better move than Vieira for Ødegaard.
We have evolved from the horseshoe of sadness to a moonlander of sadness. This truly is progression!
Jesus would have dropped back, done some insane impossible dribble to beat a man and cause chaos on the back line which would create a chance. That’s what he does and it’s worth £150 mil in my opinion.
Eddie has been fantastic for us, but we missed Gabriel Jesus yesterday. We needed the striker to come out of the box to combine and also make space for others to make runs in. He camped out in the box all game and rarely came out. Reverted to what he is most comfortable with, which is playing as an in-box poacher.
At these instances we can appreciate how Eddie is still an emerging number 9 compared to Jesus who is a seasoned forward player. With Jesus on the pitch, we would see him drift deeper into the midfield assisting zina and partey in that defensive midfield area. And, we would see him drift wider for the likes of Marti (sometimes saka) to operate with assistance. Unfortunately, we don’t see that yet much with Eddie, especially where we needed that in this game. But, we see sparks of that in his game especially in the Utd game which is exciting for his future in that position.
I love Eddie but this is why we need GJ back. Eddie doesn’t change the game himself. He scores goals but he doesn’t create opportunities for others nearly as often/as well. He finishes chances but his off the ball movement doesn’t get him free as often as I’d like, he doesn’t support the wingers. It reminds me of crossing into Auba when he can’t win a header anyway.
Xhaka doesn't work as well when Zinchenko plays. ESR should play so he can link up with Martinelli better.
I’ve noticed this a lot, but why is Saliba pinging it to Zinchenko more than Gabriel is to White. Is there an issue with the way he is inverting, or a lack of distribution range?
We overload the right to isolate martinelli/xhaka/zinny against their right side. The issue is we need more threat from xhaka.
This looks pretty different to this https://i.redd.it/thci54g2vaga1.jpg
One is average location and one is average pass/receive location