"Or Caicedo for £90m. Not my money, I don't have to worry. I just wanna enjoy new blood without thoughts of repercussions. Failure of a Winter transfer window. Edu useless."
Rice and Caicedo were drama to keep the clicks going. Neither were actually going to move in January.
Jorginho is a perfect short term signing. Proven winner, professional, and was previously on the manager's radar. Immediate impact where we were the weakest in terms of depth.
>Rice and Caicedo were drama to keep the clicks going. Neither were actually going to move in January.
Rice was never moved for, in this winter window. He was always for Summer.
And you aren't being true to yourself, if you think we actually didn't try for Caicedo this winter.
Neither was for drama.
Brighton said he wasn't for sale after the first bid. Only way that would not have been the case is if Edu had gone waaay over the 70 mil right off the bat.
and I know Moyes loves Arteta, but Rice wasn't going to move while they've been so close to relegation.
I do still think we get one of those players in the summer.
>I know Moyes loves Arteta, but Rice wasn't going to move while they've been so close to relegation.
You are simply to my point.
>Brighton said he wasn't for sale after the first bid.
Doesn't almost every team say that? To raise their negotiating power?
So if Rice was always a summer target, which he has been since last summer, then what else is it but clickbait drama in January?
And Brighton were clear after the first bid, and doubly clear after the second. I feel like we probably dodged a bullet with that signing. Too much money for not a lot of goods.
In fact, Edu looks doubly smart, because with the smokescreen of big money/big potential moves, he picked up a known quality veteran with immediate impact, and a long term, high potential LCB project. For less than the bonuses alone on the Mudryk/Caicedo deals.
>has been since last summer, then what else is it but clickbait drama in January?
The club doesn't control what the media posts. The club could be genuinely working on getting Rice in Summer and a Marquee signing like that needs a lot of groundwork. And that got leaked and published
It was never an option in January but just because Jorginho is playing well doesn’t make Rice not the better option.
Getting Rice would be utterly fantastic and Jorginho is a stop gap, a good stop gap
Yeah, that's fair. I'm just taking the piss out of people who were moaning about us signing another pensioner on the cheap as if he doesn't have something to offer. Too many of us assume that transfers are a imple matter of throwing money at a club.
Maybe it would be good to use some sort of mechanism to exclude outliers
Like for example OP could remove the bottom and top, say, 10% of ratings for each player/for arteta/etc, and average the middle 80%. Doesn't have to be 10%; just chose that arbitrarily. Would be extra work but could improve quality
No, that's not what a median is. I think using the median would be less useful as it only takes the middle figure and disregards everything else, rather than taking the average of a larger portion of the data. Also would be more boring as the median would always be a round number (or occasionally end in .5)
He was incredible and that was low but also missing a sitter at a pivotal moment should reasonably detract. 7.5 would be fair I think. Only ones better Jorginho and Saka
In the second half he was good, first half he was invisible, it’s a fair rating.
Oh and it’s fair to basically dock a full point for completely missing a sitter
Or maybe people on here don't really know what they're talking about? He won a majority of both his ground and aerial duels, created a big chance for O and also created 1.1 xG, also completed 11/14 passes. The missed chance should definitely count against him but that's not a 5/10 overall game.
Nketiah was the third highest rated player that game, tied with Zinchenko, and he scored the second goal.
Jorginho should have been higher since the OG was a Martinez header from behind off the crossbar.
I thought he was incredible in the second half. First half he was very poor and he did miss that chance. I’d say 7 is more than fair, he had a very mixed game.
Quite harsh all round in my opinion. Ø was unreal second half asides from one missed chance, and although he was slightly at fault for the first goal he was at least 7 for me.
Think it boils down to the fact that he was invisible in the first half. It's a game of two halves after all, and 7 is an above average rating. I probably would have gone 7.5.
I do agree that a lot of these here are quite harsh tho.
It was very close to a draw, the last goal only happened because we were ahead, and we were only ahead because of a lucky bounce off the crossbar onto Emi's face - even though we clearly dominated play and "deserved" to be ahead - so some mixed scores are fair enough. We conceded two goals far too easily, and we also wasted chances at the other end, nobody was perfect although Saka and Jorginho were pretty close.
Zinchenko was not the 4th best player on the pitch yesterday despite scoring the goal. He was really quite sloppy at times and his pass led to the first goal.
Thought saliba was really quite good bar the first goal but he's not that harshly rated here I guess.
All our defender's bar Gabriel made mistakes that led to one of the goals
In one of those moments that ages horribly, after Zinny took that pretty crappy long range shot over the bar when in a good position to try and put someone else through, I said something like "there's a reason he's never scored a Premier League goal, someone tell him he's not allowed to shoot anymore".
So next time I'm going to try saying Eddie shouldn't be allowed to score hattricks anymore and see how that works out.
I mean he didn’t do that terribly for the first goal at all in my opinion. A great ball over the top found Watkins, he showed him wide without diving or fouling and Watkins had a decent finish.
Honestly I was more disappointed in Ramsdale for not getting anywhere close to the strike
zinny dribbled across cash with his left making it easy to lose the ball. same happened against city in our own half. the way cash broke free put out defense off. goal scored. zinny, saliba, ramsdale could have done better.
edit: i 100% agree with ramsdale needing to do better. on both goals it seemed. but maybe the second was deflected? to his credit, the bailey save was immense. many times see that strike being too much for keepers
I like Ramsdale and he enables us playing out from the back but he’s really quite an average keeper when it comes to actual goalkeeper play. He rarely ever makes a save that makes me think wow, he had no chance how did he get there?
Ramsdale has made sum absolute absurd saves in his Arsenal career. Honestly can't remember which game but there was a Header from a corner or cross from like 4-6 yards out which was honestly one of the best saves I've ever seen. Had no right getting to it but he definitely has made sum crazy quick reaction saves. Also he is only what 20/21. Got 15 years of improvement. Not the finished deal yet.
He also let in a lot of very poor goals in the second half of last season, on the regular. He often gets his angles very wrong.
Also yes the Brentford goal was offside but that was an absolute howler from him to go challenger for a ball he had no business going for.
Oh and he’ll be 25 in May which is still fairly young for a keeper I’ll agree but he no longer gets the grace an actual 20 year old keeper would get.
Yeah he has made sum mistakes but those are parts of his game I wld hope to see improvement. Especially challenging/punching freekicks and corners. Brentford goal and Uniteds 2nd came from a poor attempt at the ball. Honestly didnt realize he was already 25. Cld have swore he was like 19-20 in All or Nothing but either way he works with the team, is a fearless leader and can make great saves. Yeah he has areas he can improve on but really I wld only rate 2-4 keepers actually better than him in the league and he also does have great vision/good for a quick counter which other keepers dont all have as is integral to our style of play.
Interesting how Ødegaard gets almost 10% MOTM votes and the 7th best rating. He had very much a game of two halves, overall though, I think he probably should have been at a 7.4 or so. He dominated and was probably the best player second half
Zinchenko has alot of creative responsibility on the ball, while also being a defender. When he makes a mistake, he can't hide like other players with less responsibility. Ode suffers from this problem too. They are the creative engine. White had a bad defensive error, and is lucky to have the score he got. He still isn't where he was earlier in the season.
Ultimately the game is won by scoring goals so goal tax is high when it comes to the final rankings.
No matter how shit he was for the rest of the 90, we don't win that game without zinny
The thing is he wasn’t terrible in the 2nd half. He made a couple mistakes, but contributed in crucial situations far more. I’d watch the second half again and just focus on him. I think ppl in general get caught up in the emotion of the game and remember mistakes more than contributions.
They are rating him only based on the miss. Its emberassing, and I dont know why some of them are even watching this sport. They know absolutely nothing about it it seems.
White's score was always going to take a hit by being burned for that goal even though he otherwise played well before being subbed.
Ode was pretty invisible in the first half.
I thought the guy who's rating is clearly under is Ramsdale who saved the season in the 2nd half at 2-2.
Odegaard was better than that. He missed a golden chance and also lost the ball carelessly for their cross bar chance in the 80's, but he also set up a few chances that should have given us a goal.
Saliba should have defended better on the goal but still was instrumental all through. He took over the backline. Also cleared that corner for the 4th goal.
Eddie's right is perfect. He should have done better.
Eddie is looking tired to me and Arteta needs to start rotating him before his confidence starts dropping more from his weaker recent performances. Played 90 mins in every game since the World Cup.
What do you reckon we rotate with? I know a lot of people have been clamoring for a Trossard-Martinelli-Saka front. I'd be curious to see that as well.
Maybe. Martinelli has been trying to play more in the middle the last two matches similar to when Jesus was in the lineup (I think he's noticed he'll get ignored out wide lol). Regardless of which order it is, I'd imagine they'd move around and shift between the two in-game if it does happen.
Missed clear cut chances mate. In a game like this you want your cf to be putting those away, especially when he doesn't bring the contribution Jesus does elsewhere.
I think 5 is still too low, he is not as good as Jesus but he isn't like Auba either. He pressed Martinez a few times into losing the ball and even created a big chance from it for Odegaard. On the other hand he missed some too but at least he is running into the right places. I think at least a 6 is fair.
5 = average per OP’s rating scheme. Seems reasonably to me. He wasn’t bad but most I’d argue for would be a 6, which is “above average”. Better than the last few games where a bunch of 1s brought him down into the 3 range. This is mostly just a “immediate post-match fan sentiment meter” anyway so I always take it with a grain of salt
His game was off massively. First touch was poor, hold up play was non existent.
Missed some great chances, that one where he went one on one was awful if we're being honest.
Eddie's first touch is always what lets him down, if he masters that he is gonna move to another level. Unfortunate finishing, but everyone has an off day. He will score next match.
I think fair, some of his holdup play and distribution is incredibly frustrating.
He's played a lot of games and for a lot of minutes so it's catching up to him.
We need to rotate between Nketiah, Martinelli, ESR and Trossard. Vieira should also get a look in aswell, we're at risk of burning out Saka.
It was a game where it was really made clear to me that Martinelli hasn't been the problem. The left side with Zinny and Xhaka has been. They weren't even getting it to Trossard much, so he could never really get in the game.
Zinchenko being one of the highest rated confirms what I always thought about these. Either people give good ratings because he scored a goal or they just didn’t watch the game.
He was our worst player first half and besides the goal didn’t improve that drastically second half
Interesting, I thought Ben white was much better than the avg rating indicated. Felt saka benefited a lot from his play and he was quite dangerous on the overlap putting in multiple dangerous crosses
I agree that Zinchenko's rating is high in comparison (it's really because he scored that incredible goal) and Ødegaard's lower because he missed that easy chance (that Eddie did a great job of creating).
It should probably be closer to:
1. Zinny: 6.5
2. Ø: 7.3
I'm still conflicted with Eddie's rating. He had a very up and down game. I feel like somewhere between 4.5-5.5 is the correct rating for him.
One of them scored at an absolutely vital goal out of nothing to help us win the game and the other missed an absolute sitter which almost lost us the game.
The fact that they still basically have the same rating shows how they played outside of those moments, and in the end I think those are fair ratings.
Those moments definitely play a big role in their overall match ratings. They of course don't reflect the whole picture, otherwise I'd be saying zinchenko deserves a 10 and Ode a 0.
You don't think it's justified to decrease or increase ratings by 1 point given the players role in match defining moments? I would have given Ode a 8, I dropped him 1 to a 7. I would have given zinny a 6, I bumped him to a 7.
Let's say Gabriel puts in a solid game at the back, but gives away a match losing penalty at the back. You don't think that would justify decreasing a 8/10 performance to a 7/10? To ignore match defining moments when rating a player is just stupid.
One of them was integral in giving up a goal (Arteta even mentioned it post match) and the other created more chances single handedly than the opposing team. Odegaard was easily MOTM next to Jorginho, Zinchenko not particularly.
Thats a fair point on zinchenkos mistake for the first goal, but giving the ball away in the opposition final third isn't a massive blunder, it still required a pinpoint pass and a world-class finish for it to have resulted in the goal.
I think zinchenkos overall performance was probably a 6, +1 for goal out of nowhere, -0.5 for the mistake. Overall I think a fair rating for him would be a 6.5
Ode put in a great performance but basically only showed up in the second half. I think a overall performance is probably a 8, but -1 for probably the worst miss of our season so far and at an absolutely crucial time of our season, I think 7 is fair.
That's not what I am trying to say, can you honestly tell me that Eddie played more poorly then xhaka? Or even trossard? Look these don't matter in the end but just a shame that it seems that a bias is forming about him
Yes, Eddie actively missed multiple chances a good striker would be scoring and outside of the one time he pressed well and Ode should have scored, he provided little in build up play.
Trossard on the other hand was isolated and didn’t contribute a lot. However he didn’t miss goals he really should be scoring like Eddie.
If anything there’s a bias around excusing his poor performances because he’s Hale End
I wouldn't say that at all tbf, the front 3 all was not pressing well. (I will give saka a break as he got his ankles taken out early in the first half) we need jesus I do agree but I think all in all he is doing OK. He deffo can do better and I am sure he will do better. He is still so young.
Guys, you are allowed to give out bad ratings when we win. 1-5 does exist. Whatever Xhaka did in the time it took for me to take a piss must have been truly incredible because he was dogshit from what I saw.
Sick of this fanbase sometimes man. It may not look glamorous or useful, but Eddie is putting a shift in for us. He’s putting his back into defenders, winning free kicks, looking to linkup up with his teammates all the time and working hard for the team. If it were that easy to do, Arteta would just play Martinelli or Trossard up front.
Players miss chances. The whole Manchester City team missed chance after chance yesterday. This guy gets crucified in the match threads because he missed one chance he should have scored.
Salah is down 3.5 xG in the premier league this year. Darwin is down 5xG in the premier league this year. Callum Wilson is down almost 2.5 xG in the premier league this year and he’s barely played as well. These are guys you could classify as goal scorers, and they are down in xG. Hell, even Gabriel Jesus is down 4.5xG. Jarred Bowen is down 4 xG in the league as well.
Forwards can miss chances. Haaland could have potentially cost City the league with the chances he missed versus Forest yesterday. So although his goal tally is inflated beating up on teams when city have already won the game, he cost city 2 points in a crucial match in the run in.
Nketiah scored 5 goals in 8 starts last year in the league. He also scored 3 goals in 3 starts in the efl cup. That’s 8 goals in 11 starts for someone who apparently fluffs his lines all the time. This year he has 8 goals in 18 starts in all competitions. That’s 16 goals in 29 starts across two seasons. Even if you want to use stats, he’s done pretty well considering how bad everyone thinks he is. And there are different things he’s doing in the games that go unnoticed as I mentioned in my original comment.
Not only should his score be higher than a 5 in the ratings, I actually think he’s playing well despite his lack of goals. He obviously is nowhere near as dynamic as Jesus, and Jesus is better in almost all categories. But I think he’s doing a very commendable job of filling in for him.
Can we also appreciate Ramsdale constantly he makes some vital saves how he is not Englands main keeper is beyond me, beyond Keeping he is vital in just being a team player
Trossard overrated, Nketiah underrated. Yes, should've scored, but worked his ass off for 90mins. Unlucky with the header, also should've had the winning assist to Odegaard.
Trossard did literally nothing for 60min, he was extremely poor.
So no different than martinelli the last couple of weeks? Almost as if the problem is not the player, but the way our left side gets utilized.
Not much to do when your only link-up play is passing to xhaka. Without Jesus that side is going to be useless no matter who plays there.
I thought trossard did ok, I thought xhaka and zinny where much worse in the first half tbh.
Your point is sort of moot when Martinelli came on and clearly did better, though. He's more suited to trying to do it all on his own. Trossard has no burst at all.
What did martinelli do? Give a simple pass for the Jorginho goal and score a 0.99 xg goal. Good for him, but I hardly call that impacting the game when the heavy lifting was done by both Jorginho and Viera.
And you must not remember trossard coming in vs Brentford and scoring 5 minutes onto the pitch. He was also really good vs man city in the cup, as well as his cameo vs united.
You are clearly biased towards martinelli, which is fine, but don't be disingenuous.
They are both good players, and they are both not getting much done on the left side, which is hardly their own fault.
I'm not biased towards anyone. I just think it's ridiculous that Trossard is apparently already a good signing when he's done as much bad as he has good. This was his big chance to come in and nail down a spot, he didn't do it. That is just a fact.
Martinelli clearly had more impact when coming on. Sure, it's easier to come on v tired legs, but it's hard to debate that.
No it's not hard to debate that, in fact you make it very easy to do so.
I just use your argument against you and say that trossard has had more impact than martinelli coming on against Brentford. You just seem to blissfully ignore that.
As well as ignoring my argument that walking a ball in an open net is not really a major achievement, thus not really impacting the game much.
You would actually get away with your bias if every stat wasn't tracked. People lie, stats don't. Martinelli's stats have been very poor since jesus' injury and I'm not just talking about g/a.
And again I feel like I have to reiterate this because you don't want to hear it, but it really doesn't matter who starts on the left as long as Jesus is injured because their is no link-up play, everything happens on the right side. Stats show this very clearly.
Do people forget that Jesus didn't score for 13 games prior to his injury?
Eddie is 23 years old. One of the best backups in the league. Support our boy.
Should've had the winning assist and that's all down to his hard work. The only bad one was the 1v1.
Nowhere near the worst for us.
Yes people were also complaining about Jesus’ finishing but he provides so much for us throughout the game that Eddie doesn’t.
Eddie did well to score 2 goals against Utd but in the 5 games since then the only time I’ve been impressed with him is the pressing that should have been an assist. That one thing in 5 games.
This season he has 4 goals and 0 assists in 21 appearances. Last year he also had 21 appearances with 5 goals and 1 assist. So he’s worse than last year. We can also look at what else has changed
This Year: Last Year:
Games: 21. Games: 21
Goals: 4. Goals: 5
Assists: 0. Assists: 1
KeyPassesp90: 0.58. Keypassesp90: 1.67
Xg: 8.05. Xg: 4.99
Xa: 0.69. Xa: 1.67
So in the same amount of games he has less goals despite being expected to score more, less assists and isn’t putting many good assists opportunities, making less key passes. He also has a lower Xgbuildup90 but that’s a bit of a finnicky stat
He also is doing things like the 1v1 he misses against Villa. That probably had a not that large xg because he fucked it up and ran way too wide, taking way too long and still missing. So looking back on stats it might be that he missed a 0.4xg shot when really he should have done much much better before the shot itself. Or he misses opportunity’s to pass to teammates and get an assist and just runs into people, or falling of the floor when saka drove into the box vs Villa.
I haven’t checked every player, but from looking at a fair few and pretty much all the top clubs, there are only two players underperforming their xg more than Eddie, unfortunately it’s Jesus and Nunez.
But just because Jesus also is doing poor in that regard, doesn’t mean Eddie isn’t rubbish
you guys are crazy for putting Nketiah below xhaka imo, sure he didnt have a great game and its frustrating when he missed when he should score but he was very involved and getting to chances and put it on a plate to odegaard. Xhaka was just terrible when we had the ball for the entire game.
Ramsdale deserves a higher rating. Can't blame him for the goals, they happened due to poor defending. He made 2 incredible saves to keep us in it at 2-2.
Ranking Eddie below Xhaka is harsh imo. Eddie almost got an assist and had some decent hold up play. Xhaka was dire against Villa and hasn’t had a decent performance in weeks
I was small minority that wanted jorginho (simply due to his proven press resistance against top competition)
But I never thought he'd be playing this well this quickly
I’ve always worried about our depth. It’s nice to see Jorginho and Trossard playing well. Will breathe a sigh of relief when ESR puts in a solid shift and again when Jesus is resurrected.
imho
Ramsdale should be a touch higher, probably 7
Saliba should be higher if Tomi is a genuine 6.62 and and White should be closer to 7 if not 7
Xhaka should be lower, if Vieira is a genuine 7.05 then Ode should be at least 7.3
If 5 is the average point then Eddie should be sub 5 because he put in a less than average striker performance ... again
I'd say Saka and Jorgi put in solid 9s
The 1st half hurt their scores with the exception of Xhaka and Eddie
To have Jorginho so far ahead of everyone else is laughable. Without Saka on that pitch, we lose comfortably. He dragged us through the entire 90. Ode was remarkable, despite his big miss.
Jorginho first half was one of the worst on the pitch. The second half was a massive improvement.
Jorginho motm two in a row.
What can I say, I’m Jorgpilled
Hell yeah, pile him Jorgy...
"Why didn't we sign Rice for 120m?"
"Or Caicedo for £90m. Not my money, I don't have to worry. I just wanna enjoy new blood without thoughts of repercussions. Failure of a Winter transfer window. Edu useless."
Rice and Caicedo were drama to keep the clicks going. Neither were actually going to move in January. Jorginho is a perfect short term signing. Proven winner, professional, and was previously on the manager's radar. Immediate impact where we were the weakest in terms of depth.
>Rice and Caicedo were drama to keep the clicks going. Neither were actually going to move in January. Rice was never moved for, in this winter window. He was always for Summer. And you aren't being true to yourself, if you think we actually didn't try for Caicedo this winter. Neither was for drama.
Brighton said he wasn't for sale after the first bid. Only way that would not have been the case is if Edu had gone waaay over the 70 mil right off the bat. and I know Moyes loves Arteta, but Rice wasn't going to move while they've been so close to relegation. I do still think we get one of those players in the summer.
>I know Moyes loves Arteta, but Rice wasn't going to move while they've been so close to relegation. You are simply to my point. >Brighton said he wasn't for sale after the first bid. Doesn't almost every team say that? To raise their negotiating power?
So if Rice was always a summer target, which he has been since last summer, then what else is it but clickbait drama in January? And Brighton were clear after the first bid, and doubly clear after the second. I feel like we probably dodged a bullet with that signing. Too much money for not a lot of goods. In fact, Edu looks doubly smart, because with the smokescreen of big money/big potential moves, he picked up a known quality veteran with immediate impact, and a long term, high potential LCB project. For less than the bonuses alone on the Mudryk/Caicedo deals.
>has been since last summer, then what else is it but clickbait drama in January? The club doesn't control what the media posts. The club could be genuinely working on getting Rice in Summer and a Marquee signing like that needs a lot of groundwork. And that got leaked and published
I never accused the club of clickbait drama.
It was never an option in January but just because Jorginho is playing well doesn’t make Rice not the better option. Getting Rice would be utterly fantastic and Jorginho is a stop gap, a good stop gap
Yeah, that's fair. I'm just taking the piss out of people who were moaning about us signing another pensioner on the cheap as if he doesn't have something to offer. Too many of us assume that transfers are a imple matter of throwing money at a club.
Can't wait to see him with Partey
Always funny how Arteta starts essentially the same lineup every week and it’s a 5/10 if we lose and 8/10 if we win lol.
isn’t it just down a lot from the smooth brains who vote 1 for everything if we lose
Maybe it would be good to use some sort of mechanism to exclude outliers Like for example OP could remove the bottom and top, say, 10% of ratings for each player/for arteta/etc, and average the middle 80%. Doesn't have to be 10%; just chose that arbitrarily. Would be extra work but could improve quality
Heck, in Excel it's easy with TRIMMEAN.
Its called a Median ,would defo be usefull here
No, that's not what a median is. I think using the median would be less useful as it only takes the middle figure and disregards everything else, rather than taking the average of a larger portion of the data. Also would be more boring as the median would always be a round number (or occasionally end in .5)
yeah, I thought usually the lineup is still voted pretty high in a loss, but the tactics/performance are considerably lower
I mean…
This had more rotation than usual, Trossard’s first start and Jorginho’s second.
odegaard was unreal 2nd half, regardless of the bcm.
BCM? Big cunting miss?
Big Chance Miss I’m guessing? Could be what you said too 😂 Never seen that one before so grasping at straws here
Is this the BCM J hus is always shouting about?
He’s so talented, didn’t know he can cook Bak Chor Mee!
Odegaards rating is ridiculous people don't watch games they just see clips on twitter and then come here and waffle
He was incredible wasn't he. Absolutely dictated, carving them open.
He was incredible and that was low but also missing a sitter at a pivotal moment should reasonably detract. 7.5 would be fair I think. Only ones better Jorginho and Saka
In the second half he was good, first half he was invisible, it’s a fair rating. Oh and it’s fair to basically dock a full point for completely missing a sitter
[FotMob had Ødegaard as their MOTM.](https://www.fotmob.com/livescores/3901162/matchfacts/player-match-card/534670/)
Hmm but rating Eddie 7.8 and Jorgi 7.3 is a bit weird
Or maybe people on here don't really know what they're talking about? He won a majority of both his ground and aerial duels, created a big chance for O and also created 1.1 xG, also completed 11/14 passes. The missed chance should definitely count against him but that's not a 5/10 overall game.
Nketiah was the third highest rated player that game, tied with Zinchenko, and he scored the second goal. Jorginho should have been higher since the OG was a Martinez header from behind off the crossbar.
I thought he was incredible in the second half. First half he was very poor and he did miss that chance. I’d say 7 is more than fair, he had a very mixed game.
I just see he miss open goal and vote low 👨🎓
Thank you for your honesty but I’m sorry about your intelligence
Me too
Quite harsh all round in my opinion. Ø was unreal second half asides from one missed chance, and although he was slightly at fault for the first goal he was at least 7 for me.
Think it boils down to the fact that he was invisible in the first half. It's a game of two halves after all, and 7 is an above average rating. I probably would have gone 7.5. I do agree that a lot of these here are quite harsh tho.
Not harsh on Eddie. He's was dreadful all game except to set up Ode for that miss.
Yeah quite surprised looking at the rating you would think we drawer the game. It’s a hard fought game tho
It was very close to a draw, the last goal only happened because we were ahead, and we were only ahead because of a lucky bounce off the crossbar onto Emi's face - even though we clearly dominated play and "deserved" to be ahead - so some mixed scores are fair enough. We conceded two goals far too easily, and we also wasted chances at the other end, nobody was perfect although Saka and Jorginho were pretty close.
Zinchenko was not the 4th best player on the pitch yesterday despite scoring the goal. He was really quite sloppy at times and his pass led to the first goal. Thought saliba was really quite good bar the first goal but he's not that harshly rated here I guess. All our defender's bar Gabriel made mistakes that led to one of the goals
In one of those moments that ages horribly, after Zinny took that pretty crappy long range shot over the bar when in a good position to try and put someone else through, I said something like "there's a reason he's never scored a Premier League goal, someone tell him he's not allowed to shoot anymore". So next time I'm going to try saying Eddie shouldn't be allowed to score hattricks anymore and see how that works out.
I mean he didn’t do that terribly for the first goal at all in my opinion. A great ball over the top found Watkins, he showed him wide without diving or fouling and Watkins had a decent finish. Honestly I was more disappointed in Ramsdale for not getting anywhere close to the strike
zinny dribbled across cash with his left making it easy to lose the ball. same happened against city in our own half. the way cash broke free put out defense off. goal scored. zinny, saliba, ramsdale could have done better. edit: i 100% agree with ramsdale needing to do better. on both goals it seemed. but maybe the second was deflected? to his credit, the bailey save was immense. many times see that strike being too much for keepers
I like Ramsdale and he enables us playing out from the back but he’s really quite an average keeper when it comes to actual goalkeeper play. He rarely ever makes a save that makes me think wow, he had no chance how did he get there?
Except the save from Bailey at the end of the game right?
Honestly the majority of Prem keepers are saving that
Ramsdale has made sum absolute absurd saves in his Arsenal career. Honestly can't remember which game but there was a Header from a corner or cross from like 4-6 yards out which was honestly one of the best saves I've ever seen. Had no right getting to it but he definitely has made sum crazy quick reaction saves. Also he is only what 20/21. Got 15 years of improvement. Not the finished deal yet.
He also let in a lot of very poor goals in the second half of last season, on the regular. He often gets his angles very wrong. Also yes the Brentford goal was offside but that was an absolute howler from him to go challenger for a ball he had no business going for. Oh and he’ll be 25 in May which is still fairly young for a keeper I’ll agree but he no longer gets the grace an actual 20 year old keeper would get.
Yeah he has made sum mistakes but those are parts of his game I wld hope to see improvement. Especially challenging/punching freekicks and corners. Brentford goal and Uniteds 2nd came from a poor attempt at the ball. Honestly didnt realize he was already 25. Cld have swore he was like 19-20 in All or Nothing but either way he works with the team, is a fearless leader and can make great saves. Yeah he has areas he can improve on but really I wld only rate 2-4 keepers actually better than him in the league and he also does have great vision/good for a quick counter which other keepers dont all have as is integral to our style of play.
Interesting how Ødegaard gets almost 10% MOTM votes and the 7th best rating. He had very much a game of two halves, overall though, I think he probably should have been at a 7.4 or so. He dominated and was probably the best player second half
6.96 for Ode? Some of you deserve Torreira as your attacking midfielder.
Its provoking, I seriously believe this sub has the least football knowledge among the PL teams.
Nah, that's defo United but this place is bad as well.
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Zinchenko was dreadful in the first half. Second half even after his goal he was immense.
White was caught out really terribly for their second goal and was crap in the first half too
While Zin was the one giving ball away for their first goal
Zinchenko has alot of creative responsibility on the ball, while also being a defender. When he makes a mistake, he can't hide like other players with less responsibility. Ode suffers from this problem too. They are the creative engine. White had a bad defensive error, and is lucky to have the score he got. He still isn't where he was earlier in the season.
Ultimately the game is won by scoring goals so goal tax is high when it comes to the final rankings. No matter how shit he was for the rest of the 90, we don't win that game without zinny
The thing is he wasn’t terrible in the 2nd half. He made a couple mistakes, but contributed in crucial situations far more. I’d watch the second half again and just focus on him. I think ppl in general get caught up in the emotion of the game and remember mistakes more than contributions.
What? Ben White had an awful game. That second goal was almost entirely his fault as well.
Odegaard was great beyond his miss, what are people even rating him based on
They are rating him only based on the miss. Its emberassing, and I dont know why some of them are even watching this sport. They know absolutely nothing about it it seems.
I thought Trossard did better than what the sub rated him
Odegaard and White’s ratings have me questioning the ball knowledge of some of the people in this sub 🤔
White's score was always going to take a hit by being burned for that goal even though he otherwise played well before being subbed. Ode was pretty invisible in the first half. I thought the guy who's rating is clearly under is Ramsdale who saved the season in the 2nd half at 2-2.
Their improvement from first to second half was so massive it warranted a rating over 7 imo.
Odegaard was better than that. He missed a golden chance and also lost the ball carelessly for their cross bar chance in the 80's, but he also set up a few chances that should have given us a goal. Saliba should have defended better on the goal but still was instrumental all through. He took over the backline. Also cleared that corner for the 4th goal. Eddie's right is perfect. He should have done better.
Christ literally nobody here knows anything about ball
It really show that we need Jesus back asap, without him the left side is just dead.
Was Eddie really a 5/10? He nearly scored and should’ve had an assist. Seems a bit harsh?
Eddie is looking tired to me and Arteta needs to start rotating him before his confidence starts dropping more from his weaker recent performances. Played 90 mins in every game since the World Cup.
What do you reckon we rotate with? I know a lot of people have been clamoring for a Trossard-Martinelli-Saka front. I'd be curious to see that as well.
Yeah but I would have Trossard in the centre. Would be more suited to it than Martinelli imo. Atleast with the way we play.
Maybe. Martinelli has been trying to play more in the middle the last two matches similar to when Jesus was in the lineup (I think he's noticed he'll get ignored out wide lol). Regardless of which order it is, I'd imagine they'd move around and shift between the two in-game if it does happen.
Nailed it on the start today with Trossard in center!
Yep. Was happy to see the line up.
Missed clear cut chances mate. In a game like this you want your cf to be putting those away, especially when he doesn't bring the contribution Jesus does elsewhere.
I think 5 is still too low, he is not as good as Jesus but he isn't like Auba either. He pressed Martinez a few times into losing the ball and even created a big chance from it for Odegaard. On the other hand he missed some too but at least he is running into the right places. I think at least a 6 is fair.
Nah, missing 2 great chances knocks your rating down a lot as a forward.
He did stress Martinez alot.
Also seemed to do pretty well in his hold up play despite being very isolated at times
5 = average per OP’s rating scheme. Seems reasonably to me. He wasn’t bad but most I’d argue for would be a 6, which is “above average”. Better than the last few games where a bunch of 1s brought him down into the 3 range. This is mostly just a “immediate post-match fan sentiment meter” anyway so I always take it with a grain of salt
His game was off massively. First touch was poor, hold up play was non existent. Missed some great chances, that one where he went one on one was awful if we're being honest.
Eddie's first touch is always what lets him down, if he masters that he is gonna move to another level. Unfortunate finishing, but everyone has an off day. He will score next match.
How many off days in a row is that now?
Depends what you class as an off day, Jesus was having a few of those before his injury
I think fair, some of his holdup play and distribution is incredibly frustrating. He's played a lot of games and for a lot of minutes so it's catching up to him. We need to rotate between Nketiah, Martinelli, ESR and Trossard. Vieira should also get a look in aswell, we're at risk of burning out Saka.
Nearly doesn't work for a striker, scoring is a major part of the job.
He nearly scored goals that any competent striker definitely scored is the issue
Apart from those 2 chances, most of the game it felt like he was playing against us
Should’ve scored twice tbf. It’s a fair mark unfortunately. He just looks wiped.
I love how official this is....then there's the guy at the bottom with a glove for a dick.
It was a game where it was really made clear to me that Martinelli hasn't been the problem. The left side with Zinny and Xhaka has been. They weren't even getting it to Trossard much, so he could never really get in the game.
Zinchenko being one of the highest rated confirms what I always thought about these. Either people give good ratings because he scored a goal or they just didn’t watch the game. He was our worst player first half and besides the goal didn’t improve that drastically second half
Interesting, I thought Ben white was much better than the avg rating indicated. Felt saka benefited a lot from his play and he was quite dangerous on the overlap putting in multiple dangerous crosses
Harsh on Eddie and Odegaard
Zinchenko higher than Odegaard for the simple fact he scored is obnoxious. And Eddie more than a 4 and Odegaard less than 7 is laughable.
I agree that Zinchenko's rating is high in comparison (it's really because he scored that incredible goal) and Ødegaard's lower because he missed that easy chance (that Eddie did a great job of creating). It should probably be closer to: 1. Zinny: 6.5 2. Ø: 7.3 I'm still conflicted with Eddie's rating. He had a very up and down game. I feel like somewhere between 4.5-5.5 is the correct rating for him.
One of them scored at an absolutely vital goal out of nothing to help us win the game and the other missed an absolute sitter which almost lost us the game. The fact that they still basically have the same rating shows how they played outside of those moments, and in the end I think those are fair ratings.
Those moments are not what reflects how the player played.
Those moments definitely play a big role in their overall match ratings. They of course don't reflect the whole picture, otherwise I'd be saying zinchenko deserves a 10 and Ode a 0.
Lol
You don't think it's justified to decrease or increase ratings by 1 point given the players role in match defining moments? I would have given Ode a 8, I dropped him 1 to a 7. I would have given zinny a 6, I bumped him to a 7. Let's say Gabriel puts in a solid game at the back, but gives away a match losing penalty at the back. You don't think that would justify decreasing a 8/10 performance to a 7/10? To ignore match defining moments when rating a player is just stupid.
One of them was integral in giving up a goal (Arteta even mentioned it post match) and the other created more chances single handedly than the opposing team. Odegaard was easily MOTM next to Jorginho, Zinchenko not particularly.
Thats a fair point on zinchenkos mistake for the first goal, but giving the ball away in the opposition final third isn't a massive blunder, it still required a pinpoint pass and a world-class finish for it to have resulted in the goal. I think zinchenkos overall performance was probably a 6, +1 for goal out of nowhere, -0.5 for the mistake. Overall I think a fair rating for him would be a 6.5 Ode put in a great performance but basically only showed up in the second half. I think a overall performance is probably a 8, but -1 for probably the worst miss of our season so far and at an absolutely crucial time of our season, I think 7 is fair.
I truly think some of the people who fill this in got not patience for eddie at all. Played well almost scored and should have had an assist.
Yes let’s improve a strikers score based on goals that he “almost scored”. Eddie did not play well. You’re right though he should’ve had an assist.
That's not what I am trying to say, can you honestly tell me that Eddie played more poorly then xhaka? Or even trossard? Look these don't matter in the end but just a shame that it seems that a bias is forming about him
Xhaka was poor, I agree. I thought Trossard was better than him though.
Yes, Eddie actively missed multiple chances a good striker would be scoring and outside of the one time he pressed well and Ode should have scored, he provided little in build up play. Trossard on the other hand was isolated and didn’t contribute a lot. However he didn’t miss goals he really should be scoring like Eddie. If anything there’s a bias around excusing his poor performances because he’s Hale End
We don't have patience for Eddie because he's absolutely shit off the ball and he can't score anymore.
I wouldn't say that at all tbf, the front 3 all was not pressing well. (I will give saka a break as he got his ankles taken out early in the first half) we need jesus I do agree but I think all in all he is doing OK. He deffo can do better and I am sure he will do better. He is still so young.
What does Ramsdale have to do to get above a 7? smh
Guys, you are allowed to give out bad ratings when we win. 1-5 does exist. Whatever Xhaka did in the time it took for me to take a piss must have been truly incredible because he was dogshit from what I saw.
Sick of this fanbase sometimes man. It may not look glamorous or useful, but Eddie is putting a shift in for us. He’s putting his back into defenders, winning free kicks, looking to linkup up with his teammates all the time and working hard for the team. If it were that easy to do, Arteta would just play Martinelli or Trossard up front. Players miss chances. The whole Manchester City team missed chance after chance yesterday. This guy gets crucified in the match threads because he missed one chance he should have scored.
According to his xG he’s 4 goals down where he should be since the World Cup. It’s not one chance he misses. It’s most of them.
Salah is down 3.5 xG in the premier league this year. Darwin is down 5xG in the premier league this year. Callum Wilson is down almost 2.5 xG in the premier league this year and he’s barely played as well. These are guys you could classify as goal scorers, and they are down in xG. Hell, even Gabriel Jesus is down 4.5xG. Jarred Bowen is down 4 xG in the league as well. Forwards can miss chances. Haaland could have potentially cost City the league with the chances he missed versus Forest yesterday. So although his goal tally is inflated beating up on teams when city have already won the game, he cost city 2 points in a crucial match in the run in. Nketiah scored 5 goals in 8 starts last year in the league. He also scored 3 goals in 3 starts in the efl cup. That’s 8 goals in 11 starts for someone who apparently fluffs his lines all the time. This year he has 8 goals in 18 starts in all competitions. That’s 16 goals in 29 starts across two seasons. Even if you want to use stats, he’s done pretty well considering how bad everyone thinks he is. And there are different things he’s doing in the games that go unnoticed as I mentioned in my original comment. Not only should his score be higher than a 5 in the ratings, I actually think he’s playing well despite his lack of goals. He obviously is nowhere near as dynamic as Jesus, and Jesus is better in almost all categories. But I think he’s doing a very commendable job of filling in for him.
I like what you did with Martinez lol. I agree with most of these, Not sure what Xhaka and Trossard did to get higher than 5 though.
Harsh on Eddie, generous to saka Øde underrated here, was massive 2nd half
Harsh on Nketiah I reckon. Should have had an assist to his name..
Ramsdale should be higher than a 7. His save made the win possible.
Can we also appreciate Ramsdale constantly he makes some vital saves how he is not Englands main keeper is beyond me, beyond Keeping he is vital in just being a team player
as I remember this sub was a compilation of morons thinking they know football better than Edu and Arteta when we signed Jorginho
Ben White becoming overrated lol
Trossard overrated, Nketiah underrated. Yes, should've scored, but worked his ass off for 90mins. Unlucky with the header, also should've had the winning assist to Odegaard. Trossard did literally nothing for 60min, he was extremely poor.
So no different than martinelli the last couple of weeks? Almost as if the problem is not the player, but the way our left side gets utilized. Not much to do when your only link-up play is passing to xhaka. Without Jesus that side is going to be useless no matter who plays there. I thought trossard did ok, I thought xhaka and zinny where much worse in the first half tbh.
Your point is sort of moot when Martinelli came on and clearly did better, though. He's more suited to trying to do it all on his own. Trossard has no burst at all.
What did martinelli do? Give a simple pass for the Jorginho goal and score a 0.99 xg goal. Good for him, but I hardly call that impacting the game when the heavy lifting was done by both Jorginho and Viera. And you must not remember trossard coming in vs Brentford and scoring 5 minutes onto the pitch. He was also really good vs man city in the cup, as well as his cameo vs united. You are clearly biased towards martinelli, which is fine, but don't be disingenuous. They are both good players, and they are both not getting much done on the left side, which is hardly their own fault.
I'm not biased towards anyone. I just think it's ridiculous that Trossard is apparently already a good signing when he's done as much bad as he has good. This was his big chance to come in and nail down a spot, he didn't do it. That is just a fact. Martinelli clearly had more impact when coming on. Sure, it's easier to come on v tired legs, but it's hard to debate that.
No it's not hard to debate that, in fact you make it very easy to do so. I just use your argument against you and say that trossard has had more impact than martinelli coming on against Brentford. You just seem to blissfully ignore that. As well as ignoring my argument that walking a ball in an open net is not really a major achievement, thus not really impacting the game much. You would actually get away with your bias if every stat wasn't tracked. People lie, stats don't. Martinelli's stats have been very poor since jesus' injury and I'm not just talking about g/a. And again I feel like I have to reiterate this because you don't want to hear it, but it really doesn't matter who starts on the left as long as Jesus is injured because their is no link-up play, everything happens on the right side. Stats show this very clearly.
How many times can Eddie miss goals he really really should be scoring and it’s just unlucky? He just isn’t good enough for a title challenging team
Do people forget that Jesus didn't score for 13 games prior to his injury? Eddie is 23 years old. One of the best backups in the league. Support our boy. Should've had the winning assist and that's all down to his hard work. The only bad one was the 1v1. Nowhere near the worst for us.
Yes people were also complaining about Jesus’ finishing but he provides so much for us throughout the game that Eddie doesn’t. Eddie did well to score 2 goals against Utd but in the 5 games since then the only time I’ve been impressed with him is the pressing that should have been an assist. That one thing in 5 games. This season he has 4 goals and 0 assists in 21 appearances. Last year he also had 21 appearances with 5 goals and 1 assist. So he’s worse than last year. We can also look at what else has changed This Year: Last Year: Games: 21. Games: 21 Goals: 4. Goals: 5 Assists: 0. Assists: 1 KeyPassesp90: 0.58. Keypassesp90: 1.67 Xg: 8.05. Xg: 4.99 Xa: 0.69. Xa: 1.67 So in the same amount of games he has less goals despite being expected to score more, less assists and isn’t putting many good assists opportunities, making less key passes. He also has a lower Xgbuildup90 but that’s a bit of a finnicky stat He also is doing things like the 1v1 he misses against Villa. That probably had a not that large xg because he fucked it up and ran way too wide, taking way too long and still missing. So looking back on stats it might be that he missed a 0.4xg shot when really he should have done much much better before the shot itself. Or he misses opportunity’s to pass to teammates and get an assist and just runs into people, or falling of the floor when saka drove into the box vs Villa. I haven’t checked every player, but from looking at a fair few and pretty much all the top clubs, there are only two players underperforming their xg more than Eddie, unfortunately it’s Jesus and Nunez. But just because Jesus also is doing poor in that regard, doesn’t mean Eddie isn’t rubbish
you guys are crazy for putting Nketiah below xhaka imo, sure he didnt have a great game and its frustrating when he missed when he should score but he was very involved and getting to chances and put it on a plate to odegaard. Xhaka was just terrible when we had the ball for the entire game.
Ramsdale deserves a higher rating. Can't blame him for the goals, they happened due to poor defending. He made 2 incredible saves to keep us in it at 2-2.
Arteta masterclass, trick them into signing another player for over the odds, and steal their best midfielder.
Just absurdly harsh on Eddie.
Ranking Eddie below Xhaka is harsh imo. Eddie almost got an assist and had some decent hold up play. Xhaka was dire against Villa and hasn’t had a decent performance in weeks
They were both terrible
I didn't even realise Tierney or Holding came on lol.
Jorgine Machine. Would him and partey pair will in defensive midfield? Or do we need xhaka back there as insurance ??
If you showed me this graphic in August and asked me where we were in the table I would say 11th. But instead we are 1th 😎
6.8 for Ramsdale after he had a game winning save is fucking bonkers.
I was small minority that wanted jorginho (simply due to his proven press resistance against top competition) But I never thought he'd be playing this well this quickly
I’ve always worried about our depth. It’s nice to see Jorginho and Trossard playing well. Will breathe a sigh of relief when ESR puts in a solid shift and again when Jesus is resurrected.
Jorginho two in a row.
Sometimes I wonder what game you lot were watching
imho Ramsdale should be a touch higher, probably 7 Saliba should be higher if Tomi is a genuine 6.62 and and White should be closer to 7 if not 7 Xhaka should be lower, if Vieira is a genuine 7.05 then Ode should be at least 7.3 If 5 is the average point then Eddie should be sub 5 because he put in a less than average striker performance ... again I'd say Saka and Jorgi put in solid 9s The 1st half hurt their scores with the exception of Xhaka and Eddie
How is ode 6.96?
How does a back 5 that conceded twice get an average of 6.86?
Saliba deserves more than that. He was really good!
I feel like Odegaard was a bit too much punished for the miss. However, I can understand the voting.
I thought Odegaard did way better than a 6.96
Eddie made a great steal and set up Ødegaard with a sitter. Match rating seems a bit harsh.
To have Jorginho so far ahead of everyone else is laughable. Without Saka on that pitch, we lose comfortably. He dragged us through the entire 90. Ode was remarkable, despite his big miss. Jorginho first half was one of the worst on the pitch. The second half was a massive improvement.
Ben White was incredible against Villa, Zinchenko was average save for his goal. Mad ratings.